'Justice Must Be Served': Trump Indicted in Push to Overturn 2020 Election
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Zoe Lofgren, news of Donald Trump’s indictment served as a major vindication of her years-long efforts to hold the former president accountable.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I do think that the indictment pretty closely tracks the evidence that the Jan. 6 Committee uncovered, and I feel a level of appreciation that our hard work was of value,” the San Mateo Democrat told KQED Tuesday, shortly after Trump was indicted on felony charges for working \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/jan-6-hearings-trump-capitol-10351fe6d555eaee7554379ceed8bb24\">to overturn the results\u003c/a> of the 2020 presidential election.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Lofgren, a member of the House select committee investigating the Jan. 6, 2021 assault on the U.S. Capitol, underscored the seriousness of the allegations against Trump, and noted this was not an occasion to celebrate.[pullquote size=\"medium\" align=\"right\" citation=\"Former Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi\"]‘The charges alleged in this indictment are very serious, and they must play out through the legal process, peacefully and without any outside interference.’[/pullquote]“At the same time, we can have some satisfaction that the rule of law applies. That it’s not just the foot soldiers that he incited to commit crimes,” she added. “The ex-president was the instigator of this entire plot [and] will be held to account. And I think that’s important for our nation and for the rule of law.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The four-count indictment from the U.S. Justice Department reveals new details about a dark chapter in modern American history, detailing handwritten notes from former Vice President Mike Pence about Trump’s relentless goading as well as how Trump sought to exploit the violence of the Jan. 6, 2021 riot to remain in office.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Even in a year of rapid-succession legal reckonings for Trump, Tuesday’s criminal case, with charges including conspiring to defraud the United States government that he once led, was especially stunning in its allegations that a former president assaulted the underpinnings of democracy in a frantic but ultimately failed effort to cling to power.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It accuses him of repeatedly lying about the election results, turning aside repeated overtures from some aides to tell the truth but conspiring with others to try to improperly change vote totals in his favor. It says that on the day of the Jan. 6, 2021 riot, he attempted to “exploit” the chaos by pushing to delay the certification of the election results even after the building was cleared of violent protesters.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Trump’s claims of having won the election, said the indictment, were “false, and the Defendant knew they were false. But the defendant repeated and widely disseminated them anyway — to make his knowingly false claims appear legitimate, to create an intense national atmosphere of mistrust and anger, and to erode public faith in the administration of the election.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Federal prosecutors say Donald Trump was “determined to remain in power” in conspiracies that targeted a “bedrock function of the United States federal government: the nation’s process of collecting, counting and certifying the results of the presidential election.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The indictment, the third criminal case brought against the former president as he seeks to reclaim the White House in 2024, follows a \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/trump-jan-6-justice-department-charges-ab1ad197e9abcb3eb9095237b98bee7d\">long-running federal investigation\u003c/a> into schemes by Trump and his allies to subvert the peaceful transfer of power and keep him in office despite a decisive loss to Joe Biden.[aside label='More Stories on the 2020 Presidential Election' tag='2020-presidential-election']The mounting criminal cases against Trump — not to mention multiple civil cases — are unfolding in the heat of the 2024 race. A conviction in this case, or any other, would not prevent Trump from pursuing the White House or serving as president.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In New York, \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/trump-indictment-new-york-florida-hush-money-election-764309dce49f81a50bf9f610ffd5ceb6\">state prosecutors have charged Trump\u003c/a> with falsifying business records about a hush money payoff to a porn actor before the 2016 election. The trial begins in late March.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In Florida, the Justice Department has brought more than three dozen \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/trump-justice-department-indictment-classified-documents-miami-8315a5b23c18f27083ed64eef21efff3\">felony counts against Trump\u003c/a> accusing him of illegally possessing classified documents after leaving the White House and concealing them from the government. The trial begins in late May.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The latest federal indictment against Trump focuses heavily on actions taken in Washington, and the trial will be held there, in a courthouse located between the White House he once occupied and the Capitol his supporters once stormed. No trial date has been set.[pullquote size=\"medium\" align=\"right\" citation=\"Rep. Zoe Lofgren (D-San Mateo)\"]‘I don’t feel joyful today. This is a sad day that the next president would have committed such terrible things that the Department of Justice had to bring an indictment.’[/pullquote]Prosecutors in Georgia are investigating efforts by Trump and his allies to reverse his election loss to Biden there in 2020. The district attorney of Fulton County is expected to announce a decision on whether to indict the former president in early August.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The investigation of Trump’s efforts to overturn the 2020 election was led by Justice Department \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/jack-smith-special-counsel-prosecutor-donald-trump-garland-e1fdb71cfc258bc2be48a8b890a9269b\">special counsel Jack Smith\u003c/a>. His team of prosecutors has questioned senior Trump administration officials before a grand jury in Washington, \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/pence-trump-grand-jury-2020-jan-6-9dac6db37ab8923ff1b0f09f3a9a32c8\">including Pence\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/capitol-siege-biden-presidential-elections-election-2020-pat-cipollone-12a8357dfec8bc9a245e5e310638aedc\">top lawyers from the Trump White House\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Rudy Giuliani, a Trump lawyer who pursued post-election legal challenges, \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/trump-giuliani-jan-6-justice-department-324e9537d58c0248806739d43b198d91\">spoke voluntarily to prosecutors\u003c/a> as part of a proffer agreement, in which a person’s statements can’t be used against them in any future criminal case that is brought.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Prosecutors also interviewed election officials in Georgia, Wisconsin, Michigan and elsewhere who came under pressure from Trump and his associates to change voting results in states won by Biden, a Democrat.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Focal points of the Justice Department’s election meddling investigation included the role played by some of Trump’s lawyers, post-election fundraising, \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/capitol-siege-panel-july-12-hearing-live-updates-78d2471f3788a82290f04d02b2b50520\">a chaotic December 2020\u003c/a> meeting at the White House in which some Trump aides discussed the possibility of seizing voting machines and the enlistment of fake electors to \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/capitol-siege-joe-biden-presidential-elections-election-2020-electoral-college-311f88768b65f7196f52a4757dc162e4\">submit certificates to the National Archives\u003c/a> and Congress falsely asserting that Trump, not Biden, had won their states’ votes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Reaction among a contingent of Bay Area Democratic leaders was swift and unequivocal. Rep. Barbara Lee (D-Oakland) took to social media to express her strong support for the indictment, stressing that the new charges against Trump “should just be the start.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Trump’s 2020 election interference — culminating in January 6th — was the closest any US president has come to disrupting the peaceful transfer of power and ending over two centuries of democracy,” Lee wrote in a tweet. “Justice must be served.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>https://twitter.com/RepBarbaraLee/status/1686511359163314176\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In a statement on Tuesday afternoon, former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said that as this case proceeds through the courts, justice must be done according to the facts and the law.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The charges alleged in this indictment are very serious, and they must play out through the legal process, peacefully and without any outside interference,” Pelosi said. “Like every criminal defendant, the former President is innocent until proven guilty. Our Founders made clear that, in the United States of America, no one is above the law — not even the former President of the United States.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But John Dennis, chairman of the San Francisco Republican Party, said he reacted to the news with “profound sadness.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It feels like the legal system and specifically the DOJ have been weaponized against a sitting president,” Dennis said. “That’s something the Democrats decried when Trump was looking into Hunter and Joe Biden in Ukraine, but now they say you shouldn’t go after political opponents in the legal system and they are doing the same thing.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>None of his Republican colleagues “even talks about [Trump’s indictment] at this point,” he added. “Nobody takes any of the charges seriously.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Trump has been trying to use the mounting legal troubles to his political advantage, claiming without evidence on social media and at public events that the cases are being driven by Democratic prosecutors out to hurt his 2024 election campaign.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The indictments have helped his campaign raise millions of dollars from supporters, though he raised less after the second than the first, raising questions about whether subsequent charges will have the same impact.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A fundraising committee backing Trump’s candidacy began soliciting contributions just hours after the ex-president revealed he was the focus of the Justice Department’s Jan. 6 investigation, casting it as “just another vicious act of Election Interference on behalf of the Deep State to try and stop the Silent Majority from having a voice in your own country.”[pullquote size=\"medium\" align=\"right\" citation=\"Rep. Adam Schiff (D-Burbank)\"]‘This is a necessary part of our democracy. We’re going to have to go through this as a country. It’ll be yet another test of the strength of our institutions.’[/pullquote]Attorney General Merrick Garland last year appointed Smith, an international war crimes prosecutor who also led the Justice Department’s public corruption section, as special counsel to investigate efforts to undo the 2020 election and Trump’s retention of hundreds of classified documents at his Palm Beach, Florida home, Mar-a-Lago. Although Trump has derided him as “deranged” and suggested that he is politically motivated, Smith’s past experience includes overseeing significant prosecutions against high-profile Democrats.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Justice Department’s investigation into the efforts to overturn the 2020 election began well before Smith’s appointment, proceeding alongside separate criminal probes into the Jan. 6 rioters themselves.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>More than 1,000 people have been charged in connection with the insurrection, including some with seditious conspiracy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Rep. Adam Schiff (D-Burbank), also a member of the House select committee investigating the Jan. 6 attack, told KQED that Tuesday’s indictment closely tracked with his committees’s work, and the evidence that emerged in hearings and in its final report.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The work had a huge influence on the actions of the Justice Department,” he said. “And it may very well be the Justice Department may not have reached this point of indicting the former president in the absence of our committee’s work.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Schiff went on to stress the momentousness of the indictment, and the risks it poses to an already extremely politically polarized nation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I think the only thing worse, more dangerous than charging a candidate for president or former president is not charging them when they’ve committed a crime,” he said. “And so this is a necessary part of our democracy. We’re going to have to go through this as a country. It’ll be yet another test of the strength of our institutions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>This story includes reporting from KQED’s Steph Rodriguez, Natalia Navarro, Matthew Green and Sydney Johnson.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"A contingent of prominent Bay Area Democratic leaders were quick to support the US Justice Department's indictment of Donald Trump on felony charges for working to overturn the results of the 2020 presidential election.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1691020510,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":35,"wordCount":1879},"headData":{"title":"'Justice Must Be Served': Trump Indicted in Push to Overturn 2020 Election | KQED","description":"A contingent of prominent Bay Area Democratic leaders were quick to support the US Justice Department's indictment of Donald Trump on felony charges for working to overturn the results of the 2020 presidential election.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"'Justice Must Be Served': Trump Indicted in Push to Overturn 2020 Election","datePublished":"2023-08-02T00:20:46.000Z","dateModified":"2023-08-02T23:55:10.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"Y","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"nprByline":"\u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/\">Eric Tucker\u003c/a>\u003cbr>The Associated Press","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","showOnAuthorArchivePages":"No","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11957092/donald-trump-indicted-2020-presidential-election-interference","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>For Rep. Zoe Lofgren, news of Donald Trump’s indictment served as a major vindication of her years-long efforts to hold the former president accountable.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I do think that the indictment pretty closely tracks the evidence that the Jan. 6 Committee uncovered, and I feel a level of appreciation that our hard work was of value,” the San Mateo Democrat told KQED Tuesday, shortly after Trump was indicted on felony charges for working \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/jan-6-hearings-trump-capitol-10351fe6d555eaee7554379ceed8bb24\">to overturn the results\u003c/a> of the 2020 presidential election.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Lofgren, a member of the House select committee investigating the Jan. 6, 2021 assault on the U.S. Capitol, underscored the seriousness of the allegations against Trump, and noted this was not an occasion to celebrate.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"‘The charges alleged in this indictment are very serious, and they must play out through the legal process, peacefully and without any outside interference.’","name":"pullquote","attributes":{"named":{"size":"medium","align":"right","citation":"Former Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>“At the same time, we can have some satisfaction that the rule of law applies. That it’s not just the foot soldiers that he incited to commit crimes,” she added. “The ex-president was the instigator of this entire plot [and] will be held to account. And I think that’s important for our nation and for the rule of law.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The four-count indictment from the U.S. Justice Department reveals new details about a dark chapter in modern American history, detailing handwritten notes from former Vice President Mike Pence about Trump’s relentless goading as well as how Trump sought to exploit the violence of the Jan. 6, 2021 riot to remain in office.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Even in a year of rapid-succession legal reckonings for Trump, Tuesday’s criminal case, with charges including conspiring to defraud the United States government that he once led, was especially stunning in its allegations that a former president assaulted the underpinnings of democracy in a frantic but ultimately failed effort to cling to power.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It accuses him of repeatedly lying about the election results, turning aside repeated overtures from some aides to tell the truth but conspiring with others to try to improperly change vote totals in his favor. It says that on the day of the Jan. 6, 2021 riot, he attempted to “exploit” the chaos by pushing to delay the certification of the election results even after the building was cleared of violent protesters.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Trump’s claims of having won the election, said the indictment, were “false, and the Defendant knew they were false. But the defendant repeated and widely disseminated them anyway — to make his knowingly false claims appear legitimate, to create an intense national atmosphere of mistrust and anger, and to erode public faith in the administration of the election.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Federal prosecutors say Donald Trump was “determined to remain in power” in conspiracies that targeted a “bedrock function of the United States federal government: the nation’s process of collecting, counting and certifying the results of the presidential election.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The indictment, the third criminal case brought against the former president as he seeks to reclaim the White House in 2024, follows a \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/trump-jan-6-justice-department-charges-ab1ad197e9abcb3eb9095237b98bee7d\">long-running federal investigation\u003c/a> into schemes by Trump and his allies to subvert the peaceful transfer of power and keep him in office despite a decisive loss to Joe Biden.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"label":"More Stories on the 2020 Presidential Election ","tag":"2020-presidential-election"},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>The mounting criminal cases against Trump — not to mention multiple civil cases — are unfolding in the heat of the 2024 race. A conviction in this case, or any other, would not prevent Trump from pursuing the White House or serving as president.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In New York, \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/trump-indictment-new-york-florida-hush-money-election-764309dce49f81a50bf9f610ffd5ceb6\">state prosecutors have charged Trump\u003c/a> with falsifying business records about a hush money payoff to a porn actor before the 2016 election. The trial begins in late March.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In Florida, the Justice Department has brought more than three dozen \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/trump-justice-department-indictment-classified-documents-miami-8315a5b23c18f27083ed64eef21efff3\">felony counts against Trump\u003c/a> accusing him of illegally possessing classified documents after leaving the White House and concealing them from the government. The trial begins in late May.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The latest federal indictment against Trump focuses heavily on actions taken in Washington, and the trial will be held there, in a courthouse located between the White House he once occupied and the Capitol his supporters once stormed. No trial date has been set.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"‘I don’t feel joyful today. This is a sad day that the next president would have committed such terrible things that the Department of Justice had to bring an indictment.’","name":"pullquote","attributes":{"named":{"size":"medium","align":"right","citation":"Rep. Zoe Lofgren (D-San Mateo)","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Prosecutors in Georgia are investigating efforts by Trump and his allies to reverse his election loss to Biden there in 2020. The district attorney of Fulton County is expected to announce a decision on whether to indict the former president in early August.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The investigation of Trump’s efforts to overturn the 2020 election was led by Justice Department \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/jack-smith-special-counsel-prosecutor-donald-trump-garland-e1fdb71cfc258bc2be48a8b890a9269b\">special counsel Jack Smith\u003c/a>. His team of prosecutors has questioned senior Trump administration officials before a grand jury in Washington, \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/pence-trump-grand-jury-2020-jan-6-9dac6db37ab8923ff1b0f09f3a9a32c8\">including Pence\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/capitol-siege-biden-presidential-elections-election-2020-pat-cipollone-12a8357dfec8bc9a245e5e310638aedc\">top lawyers from the Trump White House\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Rudy Giuliani, a Trump lawyer who pursued post-election legal challenges, \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/trump-giuliani-jan-6-justice-department-324e9537d58c0248806739d43b198d91\">spoke voluntarily to prosecutors\u003c/a> as part of a proffer agreement, in which a person’s statements can’t be used against them in any future criminal case that is brought.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Prosecutors also interviewed election officials in Georgia, Wisconsin, Michigan and elsewhere who came under pressure from Trump and his associates to change voting results in states won by Biden, a Democrat.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Focal points of the Justice Department’s election meddling investigation included the role played by some of Trump’s lawyers, post-election fundraising, \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/capitol-siege-panel-july-12-hearing-live-updates-78d2471f3788a82290f04d02b2b50520\">a chaotic December 2020\u003c/a> meeting at the White House in which some Trump aides discussed the possibility of seizing voting machines and the enlistment of fake electors to \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/capitol-siege-joe-biden-presidential-elections-election-2020-electoral-college-311f88768b65f7196f52a4757dc162e4\">submit certificates to the National Archives\u003c/a> and Congress falsely asserting that Trump, not Biden, had won their states’ votes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Reaction among a contingent of Bay Area Democratic leaders was swift and unequivocal. Rep. Barbara Lee (D-Oakland) took to social media to express her strong support for the indictment, stressing that the new charges against Trump “should just be the start.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Trump’s 2020 election interference — culminating in January 6th — was the closest any US president has come to disrupting the peaceful transfer of power and ending over two centuries of democracy,” Lee wrote in a tweet. “Justice must be served.”\u003c/p>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"singleTwitterStatus","attributes":{"named":{"id":"1686511359163314176"},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003cp>In a statement on Tuesday afternoon, former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said that as this case proceeds through the courts, justice must be done according to the facts and the law.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The charges alleged in this indictment are very serious, and they must play out through the legal process, peacefully and without any outside interference,” Pelosi said. “Like every criminal defendant, the former President is innocent until proven guilty. Our Founders made clear that, in the United States of America, no one is above the law — not even the former President of the United States.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But John Dennis, chairman of the San Francisco Republican Party, said he reacted to the news with “profound sadness.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It feels like the legal system and specifically the DOJ have been weaponized against a sitting president,” Dennis said. “That’s something the Democrats decried when Trump was looking into Hunter and Joe Biden in Ukraine, but now they say you shouldn’t go after political opponents in the legal system and they are doing the same thing.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>None of his Republican colleagues “even talks about [Trump’s indictment] at this point,” he added. “Nobody takes any of the charges seriously.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Trump has been trying to use the mounting legal troubles to his political advantage, claiming without evidence on social media and at public events that the cases are being driven by Democratic prosecutors out to hurt his 2024 election campaign.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The indictments have helped his campaign raise millions of dollars from supporters, though he raised less after the second than the first, raising questions about whether subsequent charges will have the same impact.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A fundraising committee backing Trump’s candidacy began soliciting contributions just hours after the ex-president revealed he was the focus of the Justice Department’s Jan. 6 investigation, casting it as “just another vicious act of Election Interference on behalf of the Deep State to try and stop the Silent Majority from having a voice in your own country.”\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"‘This is a necessary part of our democracy. We’re going to have to go through this as a country. It’ll be yet another test of the strength of our institutions.’","name":"pullquote","attributes":{"named":{"size":"medium","align":"right","citation":"Rep. Adam Schiff (D-Burbank)","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Attorney General Merrick Garland last year appointed Smith, an international war crimes prosecutor who also led the Justice Department’s public corruption section, as special counsel to investigate efforts to undo the 2020 election and Trump’s retention of hundreds of classified documents at his Palm Beach, Florida home, Mar-a-Lago. Although Trump has derided him as “deranged” and suggested that he is politically motivated, Smith’s past experience includes overseeing significant prosecutions against high-profile Democrats.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Justice Department’s investigation into the efforts to overturn the 2020 election began well before Smith’s appointment, proceeding alongside separate criminal probes into the Jan. 6 rioters themselves.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>More than 1,000 people have been charged in connection with the insurrection, including some with seditious conspiracy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Rep. Adam Schiff (D-Burbank), also a member of the House select committee investigating the Jan. 6 attack, told KQED that Tuesday’s indictment closely tracked with his committees’s work, and the evidence that emerged in hearings and in its final report.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The work had a huge influence on the actions of the Justice Department,” he said. “And it may very well be the Justice Department may not have reached this point of indicting the former president in the absence of our committee’s work.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Schiff went on to stress the momentousness of the indictment, and the risks it poses to an already extremely politically polarized nation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I think the only thing worse, more dangerous than charging a candidate for president or former president is not charging them when they’ve committed a crime,” he said. “And so this is a necessary part of our democracy. We’re going to have to go through this as a country. It’ll be yet another test of the strength of our institutions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>This story includes reporting from KQED’s Steph Rodriguez, Natalia Navarro, Matthew Green and Sydney Johnson.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11957092/donald-trump-indicted-2020-presidential-election-interference","authors":["byline_news_11957092"],"categories":["news_8","news_13"],"tags":["news_27508","news_20716","news_1323","news_28971","news_30470","news_2240","news_20010","news_177","news_17968","news_18536"],"featImg":"news_11957101","label":"news"},"news_11918319":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11918319","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11918319","score":null,"sort":[1656551165000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"wow-south-bay-rep-zoe-lofgren-on-hutchinsons-testimony-about-jan-6-capitol-attack","title":"'Wow': South Bay Rep. Zoe Lofgren on Cassidy Hutchinson's Account of Jan. 6 Capitol Attack","publishDate":1656551165,"format":"standard","headTitle":"KQED News","labelTerm":{"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp>The U.S. House committee investigating the Jan. 6, 2021, assault on the Capitol held a surprise hearing Tuesday featuring testimony from former White House staffer Cassidy Hutchinson, who detailed damning revelations about former President Donald Trump's actions on the day of the attack.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Hutchinson, who served as an aide to former White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, described an angry, defiant president who rebuffed warnings from his own security detail and tried to let armed protesters avoid security screenings during a rally that morning protesting the outcome of the 2020 presidential election. And when the events that day spiraled toward violence, with the crowd chanting “Hang Mike Pence,” Trump declined to intervene, Hutchinson testified.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Trump “doesn’t think they’re doing anything wrong,” Hutchinson recalled Meadows saying at the time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Hutchinson’s explosive, moment-by-moment account of what was happening inside and outside the White House offered a vivid description of a Republican president so unwilling to concede his 2020 election defeat to Democrat Joe Biden that he lashed out in rage and refused to stop the siege at the Capitol. It painted a damning portrait of the chaos at the White House as those around the defeated president splintered into factions, one supporting his false claims of voter fraud and another trying unsuccessfully to prevent the violent attack.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At one point on Jan. 6, Hutchinson recalled, former White House counsel Pat Cipollone barreled down the hallway and confronted Meadows about rioters breaching the Capitol. Meadows, staring at his phone, told the White House lawyer that Trump didn’t want to do anything, she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Earlier, Cipollone had worried out loud that “we’re going to get charged with every crime imaginable” if Trump was to go to the Capitol after his speech at the rally, Hutchinson said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside label=\"Related Stories\" tag=\"january-6\"]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Hutchinson also said Trump directed his staff, in profane terms, to take away the metal-detecting magnetometers that he thought would slow down supporters who were gathering for his speech on the Ellipse, behind the White House. In a clip of an earlier interview with the committee, she recalled the president saying words to the effect of: “I don’t f-in’ care that they have weapons.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>San José Rep. Zoe Lofgren, one of the committee members, spoke with KQED's Natalia Navarro about her reaction to Hutchinson's explosive testimony and what the public can expect in future hearings.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This interview has been edited for length and clarity.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>NATALIA NAVARRO: Why did the committee call this hearing?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>REP. ZOE LOFGREN:\u003c/strong> Ms. Hutchinson had some new information that we felt needed to get out. Obviously, we know from other instances that there is a lot of pressure that is placed on people. And we wanted to make sure that the story that she had to tell was able to be released.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>When did you know that Hutchinson would testify?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We were not positive until really late last week. I think it's been widely reported that she sat for four interviews. Her lawyer for the first three was paid for by the Trump PAC, and when she switched lawyers, I think the testimony became ever more expansive. And it was at that point that we were able to arrange a live testimony.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>What was your overall reaction to what she had to say yesterday?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I admire her courage. She seemed very candid and courageous. Obviously, she was in a key position in the White House, steps away from the Oval Office. She's a young person but had a very responsible job, and she was in a position to see and hear quite a bit, and she's willing to talk about it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Obviously, not everything that she has told us has been reported out. There is more that will be included in upcoming hearings. Honestly, her testimony about [how] the president was told that they had discovered that people in the crowd had weapons, including AR-15s and Glocks and assault weapons, that they didn't want to go through the magnetometers because they didn't want their weapons taken away, that she overheard directly that he was ordering people to take the \"f-ing mags away.\" He didn't care that they were armed because he didn't think they were going to hurt him, and the telling point was that those armed people could then walk to the Capitol from the Ellipse. Wow.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Do you plan to present evidence that members of Trump's inner circle met with hate groups, including the Proud Boys, Oath Keepers, other rally organizers, and knew or even helped coordinate their plan of attack?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I'm going to leave that for future hearings. But as the chairman has said publicly, there certainly were connections between these extremist groups and the president's inner circle.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>What role did Roger Stone play in all of this?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Again, we're going to leave that to a future hearing. As you know, he refused to testify before the committee. He took the Fifth Amendment repeatedly, but it was pretty clear that he played an important role in putting together the plot.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11918441\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003ca href=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/Hutchinson-GettyImages-12415934171.jpg\">\u003cimg class=\"size-medium wp-image-11918441\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/Hutchinson-GettyImages-12415934171-800x533.jpg\" alt=\"A wide shot of the committee hearing facing all of the committee members\" width=\"800\" height=\"533\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/Hutchinson-GettyImages-12415934171-800x533.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/Hutchinson-GettyImages-12415934171-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/Hutchinson-GettyImages-12415934171-160x107.jpg 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/Hutchinson-GettyImages-12415934171-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/Hutchinson-GettyImages-12415934171.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A text from Fox News host Sean Hannity to former White House Press Secretary Kayleigh McEnany is displayed as Cassidy Hutchinson, a former top aide to Trump White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, testifies during the sixth hearing held by the Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the US Capitol, on June 28, 2022, in the Cannon House Office Building in Washington, DC. \u003ccite>(Shawn Thew-Pool/Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Who else would you like to hear from in future hearings?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I'd like to hear from Pat Cipollone, the White House counsel. He came in for an informal interview. But I think especially given Hutchinson's testimony yesterday, I think he owes it to us to come in and speak to the committee. I know from what our investigators have said, he's acutely attentive to the role of the White House counsel moving forward. On the other hand, historically, there have been times when the White House counsel had to come forward and talk about misconduct in the White House. Although he's relying on executive privilege, not attorney-client privilege, to the best of my knowledge there is an exception to the attorney-client privilege, and that is activity that is in furtherance of a crime or in furtherance of fraud.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Do you think it's likely the committee will get Cipollone to testify?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I can't say. And we were certainly asking him to do that. And based on the testimony of Ms. Hutchinson yesterday, I would hope that he is thinking about it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>The last time you spoke with KQED, you said it wasn't the committee's job to prosecute or to bring charges, and that was purely the role of the attorney general. Has any of the new information we got yesterday changed your opinion in any way?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Structurally, that's just a fact. The legislative committees don't have the legal authority to prosecute and no amount of evidence changes that structural fact. It's part of the constitutional order. Whether we think criminal offenses have been committed, we might have a view. And we've yet to discuss whether we will share that opinion with the Department of Justice. We may or we may not. But in the end, under our system of laws, the Congress is not a prosecutor. The Congress is a legislative body.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>What was new to you in yesterday's hearing?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It wasn't new because I'd read the transcripts and knew of the information. But what was new, I think, to the public was Mr. Meadows' knowledge of the violence and his passivity, his willingness to go along with the situation that was leading to more and greater threats. The president's direct knowledge of the violent nature of some in the crowd and his interest in sending them down to the Capitol anyhow — that's pretty profound.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>What's next for the committee?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We will be having other hearings that will cover the topics that have not yet been covered. And honestly, new information is flowing in, I think, in response to these hearings. And so we're scrambling to sort through information to see whether it's relevant or not. But we will have additional hearings and lay out all the facts that we're able to find. And ultimately, we will have recommendations on potential changes to law that might make the nation more secure.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>The Associated Press contributed to this report.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"San José Democratic Rep. Zoe Lofgren, a member of the US House committee investigating the Jan. 6 insurrection, spoke with KQED's Natalia Navarro shortly after hearing the explosive testimony of former White House aide Cassidy Hutchinson.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1656624908,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":34,"wordCount":1467},"headData":{"title":"'Wow': South Bay Rep. Zoe Lofgren on Cassidy Hutchinson's Account of Jan. 6 Capitol Attack | KQED","description":"San José Democratic Rep. Zoe Lofgren, a member of the US House committee investigating the Jan. 6 insurrection, spoke with KQED's Natalia Navarro shortly after hearing the explosive testimony of former White House aide Cassidy Hutchinson.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"'Wow': South Bay Rep. Zoe Lofgren on Cassidy Hutchinson's Account of Jan. 6 Capitol Attack","datePublished":"2022-06-30T01:06:05.000Z","dateModified":"2022-06-30T21:35:08.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"Y","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"disqusIdentifier":"11918319 https://ww2.kqed.org/news/?p=11918319","disqusUrl":"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/2022/06/29/wow-south-bay-rep-zoe-lofgren-on-hutchinsons-testimony-about-jan-6-capitol-attack/","disqusTitle":"'Wow': South Bay Rep. Zoe Lofgren on Cassidy Hutchinson's Account of Jan. 6 Capitol Attack","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","showOnAuthorArchivePages":"No","path":"/news/11918319/wow-south-bay-rep-zoe-lofgren-on-hutchinsons-testimony-about-jan-6-capitol-attack","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>The U.S. House committee investigating the Jan. 6, 2021, assault on the Capitol held a surprise hearing Tuesday featuring testimony from former White House staffer Cassidy Hutchinson, who detailed damning revelations about former President Donald Trump's actions on the day of the attack.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Hutchinson, who served as an aide to former White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, described an angry, defiant president who rebuffed warnings from his own security detail and tried to let armed protesters avoid security screenings during a rally that morning protesting the outcome of the 2020 presidential election. And when the events that day spiraled toward violence, with the crowd chanting “Hang Mike Pence,” Trump declined to intervene, Hutchinson testified.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Trump “doesn’t think they’re doing anything wrong,” Hutchinson recalled Meadows saying at the time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Hutchinson’s explosive, moment-by-moment account of what was happening inside and outside the White House offered a vivid description of a Republican president so unwilling to concede his 2020 election defeat to Democrat Joe Biden that he lashed out in rage and refused to stop the siege at the Capitol. It painted a damning portrait of the chaos at the White House as those around the defeated president splintered into factions, one supporting his false claims of voter fraud and another trying unsuccessfully to prevent the violent attack.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At one point on Jan. 6, Hutchinson recalled, former White House counsel Pat Cipollone barreled down the hallway and confronted Meadows about rioters breaching the Capitol. Meadows, staring at his phone, told the White House lawyer that Trump didn’t want to do anything, she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Earlier, Cipollone had worried out loud that “we’re going to get charged with every crime imaginable” if Trump was to go to the Capitol after his speech at the rally, Hutchinson said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"label":"Related Stories ","tag":"january-6"},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Hutchinson also said Trump directed his staff, in profane terms, to take away the metal-detecting magnetometers that he thought would slow down supporters who were gathering for his speech on the Ellipse, behind the White House. In a clip of an earlier interview with the committee, she recalled the president saying words to the effect of: “I don’t f-in’ care that they have weapons.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>San José Rep. Zoe Lofgren, one of the committee members, spoke with KQED's Natalia Navarro about her reaction to Hutchinson's explosive testimony and what the public can expect in future hearings.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This interview has been edited for length and clarity.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>NATALIA NAVARRO: Why did the committee call this hearing?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>REP. ZOE LOFGREN:\u003c/strong> Ms. Hutchinson had some new information that we felt needed to get out. Obviously, we know from other instances that there is a lot of pressure that is placed on people. And we wanted to make sure that the story that she had to tell was able to be released.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>When did you know that Hutchinson would testify?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We were not positive until really late last week. I think it's been widely reported that she sat for four interviews. Her lawyer for the first three was paid for by the Trump PAC, and when she switched lawyers, I think the testimony became ever more expansive. And it was at that point that we were able to arrange a live testimony.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>What was your overall reaction to what she had to say yesterday?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I admire her courage. She seemed very candid and courageous. Obviously, she was in a key position in the White House, steps away from the Oval Office. She's a young person but had a very responsible job, and she was in a position to see and hear quite a bit, and she's willing to talk about it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Obviously, not everything that she has told us has been reported out. There is more that will be included in upcoming hearings. Honestly, her testimony about [how] the president was told that they had discovered that people in the crowd had weapons, including AR-15s and Glocks and assault weapons, that they didn't want to go through the magnetometers because they didn't want their weapons taken away, that she overheard directly that he was ordering people to take the \"f-ing mags away.\" He didn't care that they were armed because he didn't think they were going to hurt him, and the telling point was that those armed people could then walk to the Capitol from the Ellipse. Wow.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Do you plan to present evidence that members of Trump's inner circle met with hate groups, including the Proud Boys, Oath Keepers, other rally organizers, and knew or even helped coordinate their plan of attack?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I'm going to leave that for future hearings. But as the chairman has said publicly, there certainly were connections between these extremist groups and the president's inner circle.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>What role did Roger Stone play in all of this?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Again, we're going to leave that to a future hearing. As you know, he refused to testify before the committee. He took the Fifth Amendment repeatedly, but it was pretty clear that he played an important role in putting together the plot.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11918441\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003ca href=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/Hutchinson-GettyImages-12415934171.jpg\">\u003cimg class=\"size-medium wp-image-11918441\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/Hutchinson-GettyImages-12415934171-800x533.jpg\" alt=\"A wide shot of the committee hearing facing all of the committee members\" width=\"800\" height=\"533\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/Hutchinson-GettyImages-12415934171-800x533.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/Hutchinson-GettyImages-12415934171-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/Hutchinson-GettyImages-12415934171-160x107.jpg 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/Hutchinson-GettyImages-12415934171-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/Hutchinson-GettyImages-12415934171.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A text from Fox News host Sean Hannity to former White House Press Secretary Kayleigh McEnany is displayed as Cassidy Hutchinson, a former top aide to Trump White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, testifies during the sixth hearing held by the Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the US Capitol, on June 28, 2022, in the Cannon House Office Building in Washington, DC. \u003ccite>(Shawn Thew-Pool/Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Who else would you like to hear from in future hearings?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I'd like to hear from Pat Cipollone, the White House counsel. He came in for an informal interview. But I think especially given Hutchinson's testimony yesterday, I think he owes it to us to come in and speak to the committee. I know from what our investigators have said, he's acutely attentive to the role of the White House counsel moving forward. On the other hand, historically, there have been times when the White House counsel had to come forward and talk about misconduct in the White House. Although he's relying on executive privilege, not attorney-client privilege, to the best of my knowledge there is an exception to the attorney-client privilege, and that is activity that is in furtherance of a crime or in furtherance of fraud.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Do you think it's likely the committee will get Cipollone to testify?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I can't say. And we were certainly asking him to do that. And based on the testimony of Ms. Hutchinson yesterday, I would hope that he is thinking about it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>The last time you spoke with KQED, you said it wasn't the committee's job to prosecute or to bring charges, and that was purely the role of the attorney general. Has any of the new information we got yesterday changed your opinion in any way?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Structurally, that's just a fact. The legislative committees don't have the legal authority to prosecute and no amount of evidence changes that structural fact. It's part of the constitutional order. Whether we think criminal offenses have been committed, we might have a view. And we've yet to discuss whether we will share that opinion with the Department of Justice. We may or we may not. But in the end, under our system of laws, the Congress is not a prosecutor. The Congress is a legislative body.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>What was new to you in yesterday's hearing?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It wasn't new because I'd read the transcripts and knew of the information. But what was new, I think, to the public was Mr. Meadows' knowledge of the violence and his passivity, his willingness to go along with the situation that was leading to more and greater threats. The president's direct knowledge of the violent nature of some in the crowd and his interest in sending them down to the Capitol anyhow — that's pretty profound.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>What's next for the committee?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We will be having other hearings that will cover the topics that have not yet been covered. And honestly, new information is flowing in, I think, in response to these hearings. And so we're scrambling to sort through information to see whether it's relevant or not. But we will have additional hearings and lay out all the facts that we're able to find. And ultimately, we will have recommendations on potential changes to law that might make the nation more secure.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>The Associated Press contributed to this report.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11918319/wow-south-bay-rep-zoe-lofgren-on-hutchinsons-testimony-about-jan-6-capitol-attack","authors":["11756","11509"],"categories":["news_8","news_13"],"tags":["news_29011","news_31273","news_31277","news_1323","news_27626","news_28987","news_30470","news_30473","news_31274","news_20010","news_28341","news_20449","news_2013"],"featImg":"news_11918442","label":"news"},"news_11841566":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11841566","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11841566","score":null,"sort":[1602196262000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"opposites-repel","title":"Opposites Repel","publishDate":1602196262,"format":"standard","headTitle":"Mark Fiore: Drawn to the Bay | KQED News","labelTerm":{"term":18515,"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp>Following Sen. Kamala Harris' performance in Wednesday night's \u003ca href=\"http://bit.ly/fiorekamalapence\">vice presidential debate\u003c/a>, President Trump referred to her as a \"monster\" and a \"communist.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The fact that Trump refers to you as \"this monster\" and \"totally unlikeable\" would likely be considered a badge of honor by most people in the Bay Area.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Even though I was hoping the Oakland-born Harris would completely eviscerate Vice President Mike Pence onstage, she did a good job at highlighting some of the Trump administration's failings.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Judging by the president's \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1314186938417655808\">post-debate analysis\u003c/a>, Harris must have won the debate.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"Following Sen. Kamala Harris' performance in Wednesday night's vice presidential debate, President Trump referred to her as a 'monster' and a 'communist.'","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1602196634,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":6,"wordCount":98},"headData":{"title":"Opposites Repel | KQED","description":"Following Sen. Kamala Harris' performance in Wednesday night's vice presidential debate, President Trump referred to her as a 'monster' and a 'communist.'","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"Opposites Repel","datePublished":"2020-10-08T22:31:02.000Z","dateModified":"2020-10-08T22:37:14.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"Y","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"disqusIdentifier":"11841566 https://ww2.kqed.org/news/?p=11841566","disqusUrl":"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/2020/10/08/opposites-repel/","disqusTitle":"Opposites Repel","path":"/news/11841566/opposites-repel","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Following Sen. Kamala Harris' performance in Wednesday night's \u003ca href=\"http://bit.ly/fiorekamalapence\">vice presidential debate\u003c/a>, President Trump referred to her as a \"monster\" and a \"communist.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The fact that Trump refers to you as \"this monster\" and \"totally unlikeable\" would likely be considered a badge of honor by most people in the Bay Area.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Even though I was hoping the Oakland-born Harris would completely eviscerate Vice President Mike Pence onstage, she did a good job at highlighting some of the Trump administration's failings.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Judging by the president's \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1314186938417655808\">post-debate analysis\u003c/a>, Harris must have won the debate.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11841566/opposites-repel","authors":["3236"],"series":["news_18515"],"categories":["news_13"],"tags":["news_23095","news_717","news_61","news_20949","news_20010","news_28637"],"featImg":"news_11841572","label":"news_18515"},"news_11841514":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11841514","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11841514","score":null,"sort":[1602132442000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"four-takeaways-from-kamala-harris-vice-presidential-debate-performance","title":"Four Takeaways from Kamala Harris' Vice Presidential Debate Performance","publishDate":1602132442,"format":"image","headTitle":"KQED News","labelTerm":{"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp>California Sen. Kamala Harris and Vice President Mike Pence (and one pesky fly) shared the vice presidential debate stage on Wednesday night in Salt Lake City, Utah — trading barbs in a 90-minute debate moderated by Susan Page of USA Today.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Harris made her debut on the national debate stage last year, during her run for the Democratic presidential nomination. But her task on Wednesday night was different, as she honed attacks on the Trump administration and sought to bridge divides between her own record and Joe Biden's platform.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Here are four takeaways from her performance:\u003c/p>\n\u003ch3>\u003cstrong>Starting Out on Offense\u003c/strong>\u003c/h3>\n\u003cp>Last week's presidential debate between President Trump and Biden began with questions about the pending confirmation of Supreme Court nominee Judge Amy Coney Barrett. But after the president contracted the coronavirus and was hospitalized over the weekend, there was little doubt that Wednesday night's debate would start with a focus on the pandemic.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Harris was ready. She tapped into the prosecutorial form that has garnered her acclaim during her time in the Senate, and calmly laid out the case against the Trump administration's response.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The American people have witnessed what is the greatest failure of any presidential administration in the history of our country,\" Harris said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>https://twitter.com/NewsHour/status/1314011540560007169?s=20\u003c/p>\n\u003ch3>\u003cstrong>No Answer on 'Court Packing'\u003c/strong>\u003c/h3>\n\u003cp>If Biden and Harris have made a decision on whether to increase the size of the Supreme Court if Democrats run the table, they're keeping it close to the vest. When Pence pressed for her position on \"court packing,\" Harris veered uneasily between a history of judicial confirmations close to elections, an attack on Barrett's nomination process and an examination of Trump's lower court appointments.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>https://twitter.com/NewsHour/status/1314031247308587008?s=20\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Given that Biden was forced to perform similar rhetorical gymnastics on the same pommel horse last week, the campaign may want to articulate a position on the issue before the next presidential debate. Or not.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch3>\u003cstrong>Standing Up for Her Record \u003c/strong>\u003c/h3>\n\u003cp>Too often in her run for the Democratic nomination, Harris was caught between touting her lifelong experience as a prosecutor, and defending her role in a criminal justice system she acknowledged was full of systemic racism.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>On Wednesday, Harris threaded the needle. She didn't shy from her law enforcement credentials — repeatedly remarking that she would \"not be lectured\" by Pence on issues of criminal justice.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"I am the only one on this stage who has personally prosecuted everything from child sexual assault to homicide,\" Harris said. \"I am the only one on this stage who has prosecuted the big banks for taking advantage of homeowners. I am the only one on this stage who prosecuted for-profit colleges for taking advantage of our veterans.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>https://twitter.com/CBSEveningNews/status/1314034506463096832?s=20\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And when Pence launched attacks on Harris' record as District Attorney of San Francisco and Attorney General of California (\"you did nothing on criminal justice reform in California,\") Harris pushed moderator Susan Page for a chance to respond.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"Having served as Attorney General of the state of California, the work that I did is a model of what our nation needs to do,\" she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Many Democrats in California would disagree with that — and have — but don't expect any to voice that now. [ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003ch3>\u003cstrong>Civility and Speaking Time\u003c/strong>\u003c/h3>\n\u003cp>The night got off to a more civil start than last week's presidential debate, as Pence thanked Harris for her well wishes toward the president's health and offered her a moment of praise.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"I also want to congratulate you, as I did on that phone call, on the historic nature of your nomination,\" Pence said. \"I never expected to be on that stage four years ago, so I know the feeling.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As the debate wore on, moderator Susan Page had increasing difficulty in cutting off Pence's answers at the time limit.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>https://twitter.com/NewsHour/status/1314025083799830529?s=20\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But Harris was able to successfully press for more time in response, and though \u003ca href=\"https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/vp-debate-coverage-fact-check-10-07-20/h_193ba372b7272f1e62c18c93b3940835\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">final\u003c/a> speaking \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/rickklein/status/1314032432769884160\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">time\u003c/a> estimates vary, most show roughly equal time for the two candidates.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"Sen. Harris and Vice President Mike Pence (and one pesky fly) shared the vice presidential debate stage on Wednesday night in Salt Lake City, Utah — trading barbs in a 90-minute debate moderated by Susan Page of USA Today.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1602215046,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":19,"wordCount":697},"headData":{"title":"Four Takeaways from Kamala Harris' Vice Presidential Debate Performance | KQED","description":"Sen. Harris and Vice President Mike Pence (and one pesky fly) shared the vice presidential debate stage on Wednesday night in Salt Lake City, Utah — trading barbs in a 90-minute debate moderated by Susan Page of USA Today.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"Four Takeaways from Kamala Harris' Vice Presidential Debate Performance","datePublished":"2020-10-08T04:47:22.000Z","dateModified":"2020-10-09T03:44:06.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"Y","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"disqusIdentifier":"11841514 https://ww2.kqed.org/news/?p=11841514","disqusUrl":"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/2020/10/07/four-takeaways-from-kamala-harris-vice-presidential-debate-performance/","disqusTitle":"Four Takeaways from Kamala Harris' Vice Presidential Debate Performance","path":"/news/11841514/four-takeaways-from-kamala-harris-vice-presidential-debate-performance","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>California Sen. Kamala Harris and Vice President Mike Pence (and one pesky fly) shared the vice presidential debate stage on Wednesday night in Salt Lake City, Utah — trading barbs in a 90-minute debate moderated by Susan Page of USA Today.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Harris made her debut on the national debate stage last year, during her run for the Democratic presidential nomination. But her task on Wednesday night was different, as she honed attacks on the Trump administration and sought to bridge divides between her own record and Joe Biden's platform.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Here are four takeaways from her performance:\u003c/p>\n\u003ch3>\u003cstrong>Starting Out on Offense\u003c/strong>\u003c/h3>\n\u003cp>Last week's presidential debate between President Trump and Biden began with questions about the pending confirmation of Supreme Court nominee Judge Amy Coney Barrett. But after the president contracted the coronavirus and was hospitalized over the weekend, there was little doubt that Wednesday night's debate would start with a focus on the pandemic.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Harris was ready. She tapped into the prosecutorial form that has garnered her acclaim during her time in the Senate, and calmly laid out the case against the Trump administration's response.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The American people have witnessed what is the greatest failure of any presidential administration in the history of our country,\" Harris said.\u003c/p>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"singleTwitterStatus","attributes":{"named":{"id":"1314011540560007169"},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003ch3>\u003cstrong>No Answer on 'Court Packing'\u003c/strong>\u003c/h3>\n\u003cp>If Biden and Harris have made a decision on whether to increase the size of the Supreme Court if Democrats run the table, they're keeping it close to the vest. When Pence pressed for her position on \"court packing,\" Harris veered uneasily between a history of judicial confirmations close to elections, an attack on Barrett's nomination process and an examination of Trump's lower court appointments.\u003c/p>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"singleTwitterStatus","attributes":{"named":{"id":"1314031247308587008"},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003cp>Given that Biden was forced to perform similar rhetorical gymnastics on the same pommel horse last week, the campaign may want to articulate a position on the issue before the next presidential debate. Or not.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch3>\u003cstrong>Standing Up for Her Record \u003c/strong>\u003c/h3>\n\u003cp>Too often in her run for the Democratic nomination, Harris was caught between touting her lifelong experience as a prosecutor, and defending her role in a criminal justice system she acknowledged was full of systemic racism.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>On Wednesday, Harris threaded the needle. She didn't shy from her law enforcement credentials — repeatedly remarking that she would \"not be lectured\" by Pence on issues of criminal justice.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"I am the only one on this stage who has personally prosecuted everything from child sexual assault to homicide,\" Harris said. \"I am the only one on this stage who has prosecuted the big banks for taking advantage of homeowners. I am the only one on this stage who prosecuted for-profit colleges for taking advantage of our veterans.\"\u003c/p>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"singleTwitterStatus","attributes":{"named":{"id":"1314034506463096832"},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003cp>And when Pence launched attacks on Harris' record as District Attorney of San Francisco and Attorney General of California (\"you did nothing on criminal justice reform in California,\") Harris pushed moderator Susan Page for a chance to respond.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"Having served as Attorney General of the state of California, the work that I did is a model of what our nation needs to do,\" she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Many Democrats in California would disagree with that — and have — but don't expect any to voice that now. \u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch3>\u003cstrong>Civility and Speaking Time\u003c/strong>\u003c/h3>\n\u003cp>The night got off to a more civil start than last week's presidential debate, as Pence thanked Harris for her well wishes toward the president's health and offered her a moment of praise.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"I also want to congratulate you, as I did on that phone call, on the historic nature of your nomination,\" Pence said. \"I never expected to be on that stage four years ago, so I know the feeling.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As the debate wore on, moderator Susan Page had increasing difficulty in cutting off Pence's answers at the time limit.\u003c/p>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"singleTwitterStatus","attributes":{"named":{"id":"1314025083799830529"},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003cp>But Harris was able to successfully press for more time in response, and though \u003ca href=\"https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/vp-debate-coverage-fact-check-10-07-20/h_193ba372b7272f1e62c18c93b3940835\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">final\u003c/a> speaking \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/rickklein/status/1314032432769884160\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">time\u003c/a> estimates vary, most show roughly equal time for the two candidates.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11841514/four-takeaways-from-kamala-harris-vice-presidential-debate-performance","authors":["227"],"categories":["news_8","news_13"],"tags":["news_27370","news_27626","news_20010","news_22916","news_28637"],"featImg":"news_11841526","label":"news"},"news_11841212":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11841212","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11841212","score":null,"sort":[1602028079000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"trumps-illness-and-bidens-age-give-special-importance-to-vp-debate","title":"Trump's Illness and Biden’s Age Give Special Importance to VP Debate","publishDate":1602028079,"format":"standard","headTitle":"KQED News","labelTerm":{"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp>Debates between the Democratic and Republican candidates for vice president are typically the undercard of presidential campaigns, a relatively unimportant contest squeezed in between the main events.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But in this topsy turvy election year, President Donald Trump’s hospitalization for COVID-19 and Joe Biden’s age might give Wednesday night’s faceoff between Vice President Mike Pence and Sen. Kamala Harris an unusually large audience.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"This may be the most consequential vice presidential debate in American political history,\" said Dan Schur, who teaches political science at USC and UC Berkeley. He acknowledges there’s not much competition for that title, since no VP debate in history has ever really resulted in more than memorable soundbites.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"The stakes are much higher now because, without sounding ghoulish, more and more Americans are going to be wondering whether either Donald Trump or Joe Biden would be able to serve for four full years.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Schnur, who sat in on debate preparation for George W. Bush and Sen. John McCain, said the key is to try and plan for the unexpected, which by definition is hard to do. Former South Bend, Indiana Mayor Pete Buttigieg is playing the part of VP Pence in debate preparation for Harris.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"Debate preparation, if it's done well, is usually less about content and more about presentation,\" Schnur said. “If the candidates themselves do their job right, they're going to be familiar with the substance of the types of policy matters that they're going to get asked about in the debate.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For Kamala Harris, the stakes are huge. A strong performance will help cement Joe Biden’s current advantage in the polls. If she slips up or looks shaky, it creates an opening for Trump to make her the issue.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Barbara O’Connor, an emeritus professor of communications at Cal State Sacramento, said Harris \"has got to make herself believable and honest, answer questions and play by the rules in order to attract the suburban women that people say [have] still not made up their minds.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>O’Connor, who was a debate coach at USC, Georgetown and Cal State Sacramento, added that Harris has to debate in a way that doesn’t turn off undecided voters and suburban women. \"I think coming off as an attack dog and being vicious, which she can be,\" would be a mistake, O’Connor said. \"We've all seen it. That would scare them.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Suburban women are considered a key demographic Trump won in 2016 - but \u003ca href=\"https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/10/01/president-trump-gets-suburbs-all-wrong/\">polls show he's losing them now\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Some of Harris’s most powerful moments have been as a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee, questioning Trump administration officials and Supreme Court nominees like Brett Kavanaugh. But Schnur said that prosecutorial style might not serve Harris well Wednesday night.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“As Barack Obama once noted, he always felt that he needed to be more restrained and less aggressive on the public stage, simply so he didn't, in \u003ci>his\u003c/i> words, not mine, come across as an ‘angry Black man.’ And for Harris, both as a woman and a woman of color, that challenge may be even greater,” Schnur said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside link1=\"https://www.npr.org/2020/10/06/919107935/pence-and-harris-debate-wednesday-heres-what-you-need-to-know,Pence And Harris Debate Wednesday. Here's What You Need To Know\" hero=\"https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2020/10/05/2020-10-5-pence-harris-faq-2_custom-e977bfc8f4781dbf13502d19333d348f1ea0d6fe-s1600-c85.jpg\"]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Cassandra Pye, a Republican consultant who previously worked for Arnold Schwarzenegger, said “I always worry in these situations about that phenomenon known as ‘running [for office] in heels.' And now we’ll add a woman of color, you know.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Pye notes that women candidates and officeholders often face a double standard.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"I don’t know what it will be in this case, but women do face the additional scrutiny that male candidates don't typically face,\" Pye said, adding that \"if I never hear about Hillary Clinton's pantsuits again, I'd be perfectly happy.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Raphe Sonenshein of the Pat Brown Institute for Public Affairs at Cal State Los Angeles was on a panel of questioners for a U.S. Senate debate in 2016 with Harris and her general election opponent, Rep. Loretta Sanchez.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"I was only a few feet away and she was very much in command of her spot on the stage, let's put it that way,\" Sonenshein said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside label='More Election Coverage' tag='election2020']Harris’s debate performance before the presidential primaries was often uneven, with moments that went viral but also answers that seemed wooden or unnatural. It left voters wondering who she really was.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Sonenshein said he hopes Harris communicates the kind of authenticity she showed on the campaign trail.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"She really generates a great deal of charisma and warmth and engagement. And some of that should be part of her presentation,” Sonenshein said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Harris will be up against a steady and calm debater in Vice President Pence. As a former member of Congress and governor of Indiana, he’s used to debating and unlike President Trump, Pence will follow the rules and be polite.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"I think the problem is that he has to defend the president at all times, no matter what,\" said Sonenshein.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The largest audience ever for a vice presidential debate was in 2008, when 70 million people watched Joe Biden debate Sarah Palin, who was relatively unknown and a curiosity to many voters.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Wednesday night’s event in Salt Lake City, Utah will surely be the largest audience Kamala Harris has ever had. Barbara O’Connor said Harris will be the main draw for voters who want to get a better sense of the person who could be eventually be president.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"Everyone's wondering, you know, and I think people who are legitimately undecided will be watching with great interest,” O’Connor said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>With the two campaigns already in a \u003ca href=\"https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/vp-debate-coronavirus-safety/2020/10/06/ee44fa00-07e7-11eb-a166-dc429b380d10_story.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">disagreement\u003c/a> over the placement of plexiglass dividers at the debate came word Tuesday afternoon that Stephen Miller, one of President Trump's top advisers and husband of Pence's communications director, tested positive for COVID-19. That could further complicate a debate that already has a high level of drama.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"With an ailing president and a 77-year-old challenger, this could be the most consequential vice presidential debate ever.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1602029000,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":29,"wordCount":1069},"headData":{"title":"Trump's Illness and Biden’s Age Give Special Importance to VP Debate | KQED","description":"With an ailing president and a 77-year-old challenger, this could be the most consequential vice presidential debate ever.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"Trump's Illness and Biden’s Age Give Special Importance to VP Debate","datePublished":"2020-10-06T23:47:59.000Z","dateModified":"2020-10-07T00:03:20.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"Y","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"disqusIdentifier":"11841212 https://ww2.kqed.org/news/?p=11841212","disqusUrl":"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/2020/10/06/trumps-illness-and-bidens-age-give-special-importance-to-vp-debate/","disqusTitle":"Trump's Illness and Biden’s Age Give Special Importance to VP Debate","path":"/news/11841212/trumps-illness-and-bidens-age-give-special-importance-to-vp-debate","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Debates between the Democratic and Republican candidates for vice president are typically the undercard of presidential campaigns, a relatively unimportant contest squeezed in between the main events.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But in this topsy turvy election year, President Donald Trump’s hospitalization for COVID-19 and Joe Biden’s age might give Wednesday night’s faceoff between Vice President Mike Pence and Sen. Kamala Harris an unusually large audience.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"This may be the most consequential vice presidential debate in American political history,\" said Dan Schur, who teaches political science at USC and UC Berkeley. He acknowledges there’s not much competition for that title, since no VP debate in history has ever really resulted in more than memorable soundbites.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"The stakes are much higher now because, without sounding ghoulish, more and more Americans are going to be wondering whether either Donald Trump or Joe Biden would be able to serve for four full years.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Schnur, who sat in on debate preparation for George W. Bush and Sen. John McCain, said the key is to try and plan for the unexpected, which by definition is hard to do. Former South Bend, Indiana Mayor Pete Buttigieg is playing the part of VP Pence in debate preparation for Harris.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"Debate preparation, if it's done well, is usually less about content and more about presentation,\" Schnur said. “If the candidates themselves do their job right, they're going to be familiar with the substance of the types of policy matters that they're going to get asked about in the debate.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For Kamala Harris, the stakes are huge. A strong performance will help cement Joe Biden’s current advantage in the polls. If she slips up or looks shaky, it creates an opening for Trump to make her the issue.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Barbara O’Connor, an emeritus professor of communications at Cal State Sacramento, said Harris \"has got to make herself believable and honest, answer questions and play by the rules in order to attract the suburban women that people say [have] still not made up their minds.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>O’Connor, who was a debate coach at USC, Georgetown and Cal State Sacramento, added that Harris has to debate in a way that doesn’t turn off undecided voters and suburban women. \"I think coming off as an attack dog and being vicious, which she can be,\" would be a mistake, O’Connor said. \"We've all seen it. That would scare them.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Suburban women are considered a key demographic Trump won in 2016 - but \u003ca href=\"https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/10/01/president-trump-gets-suburbs-all-wrong/\">polls show he's losing them now\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Some of Harris’s most powerful moments have been as a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee, questioning Trump administration officials and Supreme Court nominees like Brett Kavanaugh. But Schnur said that prosecutorial style might not serve Harris well Wednesday night.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“As Barack Obama once noted, he always felt that he needed to be more restrained and less aggressive on the public stage, simply so he didn't, in \u003ci>his\u003c/i> words, not mine, come across as an ‘angry Black man.’ And for Harris, both as a woman and a woman of color, that challenge may be even greater,” Schnur said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"link1":"https://www.npr.org/2020/10/06/919107935/pence-and-harris-debate-wednesday-heres-what-you-need-to-know,Pence And Harris Debate Wednesday. Here's What You Need To Know","hero":"https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2020/10/05/2020-10-5-pence-harris-faq-2_custom-e977bfc8f4781dbf13502d19333d348f1ea0d6fe-s1600-c85.jpg","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Cassandra Pye, a Republican consultant who previously worked for Arnold Schwarzenegger, said “I always worry in these situations about that phenomenon known as ‘running [for office] in heels.' And now we’ll add a woman of color, you know.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Pye notes that women candidates and officeholders often face a double standard.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"I don’t know what it will be in this case, but women do face the additional scrutiny that male candidates don't typically face,\" Pye said, adding that \"if I never hear about Hillary Clinton's pantsuits again, I'd be perfectly happy.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Raphe Sonenshein of the Pat Brown Institute for Public Affairs at Cal State Los Angeles was on a panel of questioners for a U.S. Senate debate in 2016 with Harris and her general election opponent, Rep. Loretta Sanchez.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"I was only a few feet away and she was very much in command of her spot on the stage, let's put it that way,\" Sonenshein said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"label":"More Election Coverage ","tag":"election2020"},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Harris’s debate performance before the presidential primaries was often uneven, with moments that went viral but also answers that seemed wooden or unnatural. It left voters wondering who she really was.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Sonenshein said he hopes Harris communicates the kind of authenticity she showed on the campaign trail.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"She really generates a great deal of charisma and warmth and engagement. And some of that should be part of her presentation,” Sonenshein said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Harris will be up against a steady and calm debater in Vice President Pence. As a former member of Congress and governor of Indiana, he’s used to debating and unlike President Trump, Pence will follow the rules and be polite.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"I think the problem is that he has to defend the president at all times, no matter what,\" said Sonenshein.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The largest audience ever for a vice presidential debate was in 2008, when 70 million people watched Joe Biden debate Sarah Palin, who was relatively unknown and a curiosity to many voters.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Wednesday night’s event in Salt Lake City, Utah will surely be the largest audience Kamala Harris has ever had. Barbara O’Connor said Harris will be the main draw for voters who want to get a better sense of the person who could be eventually be president.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"Everyone's wondering, you know, and I think people who are legitimately undecided will be watching with great interest,” O’Connor said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>With the two campaigns already in a \u003ca href=\"https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/vp-debate-coronavirus-safety/2020/10/06/ee44fa00-07e7-11eb-a166-dc429b380d10_story.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">disagreement\u003c/a> over the placement of plexiglass dividers at the debate came word Tuesday afternoon that Stephen Miller, one of President Trump's top advisers and husband of Pence's communications director, tested positive for COVID-19. That could further complicate a debate that already has a high level of drama.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11841212/trumps-illness-and-bidens-age-give-special-importance-to-vp-debate","authors":["255"],"categories":["news_8","news_13"],"tags":["news_27370","news_61","news_20010","news_17968","news_28637"],"featImg":"news_11841306","label":"news"},"news_11833010":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11833010","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11833010","score":null,"sort":[1597186260000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"coming-not-soon-enough-harris-v-pence","title":"Coming Not-Soon-Enough: Harris v. Pence","publishDate":1597186260,"format":"standard","headTitle":"Mark Fiore: Drawn to the Bay | KQED News","labelTerm":{"term":18515,"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp>California Sen. Kamala Harris, a former prosecutor and experienced politician who was born in Oakland, is Joe Biden's \u003ca href=\"https://bit.ly/fiorebidenkamala\">pick for vice president\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Harris becomes the first Black or Asian American woman to be a vice presidential candidate for a major political party, and has stood out with her prosecutorial style in \u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLIoXsKQgpk\">debates\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1CjMtRs59g\">in Congress\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Unfortunately, we'll have to wait until Oct. 7 to see Sen. Harris eviscerate Mike Pence.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I only hope the Commission on Presidential Debates adds 35 or so more debates for the vice presidential candidates.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"California Sen. Kamala Harris, a former prosecutor and experienced politician who was born in Oakland, is Joe Biden's pick for vice president.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1597186260,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":6,"wordCount":93},"headData":{"title":"Coming Not-Soon-Enough: Harris v. Pence | KQED","description":"California Sen. Kamala Harris, a former prosecutor and experienced politician who was born in Oakland, is Joe Biden's pick for vice president.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"Coming Not-Soon-Enough: Harris v. Pence","datePublished":"2020-08-11T22:51:00.000Z","dateModified":"2020-08-11T22:51:00.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"Y","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"disqusIdentifier":"11833010 https://ww2.kqed.org/news/?p=11833010","disqusUrl":"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/2020/08/11/coming-not-soon-enough-harris-v-pence/","disqusTitle":"Coming Not-Soon-Enough: Harris v. Pence","path":"/news/11833010/coming-not-soon-enough-harris-v-pence","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>California Sen. Kamala Harris, a former prosecutor and experienced politician who was born in Oakland, is Joe Biden's \u003ca href=\"https://bit.ly/fiorebidenkamala\">pick for vice president\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Harris becomes the first Black or Asian American woman to be a vice presidential candidate for a major political party, and has stood out with her prosecutorial style in \u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLIoXsKQgpk\">debates\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1CjMtRs59g\">in Congress\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Unfortunately, we'll have to wait until Oct. 7 to see Sen. Harris eviscerate Mike Pence.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I only hope the Commission on Presidential Debates adds 35 or so more debates for the vice presidential candidates.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11833010/coming-not-soon-enough-harris-v-pence","authors":["3236"],"series":["news_18515"],"categories":["news_6188","news_13"],"tags":["news_27508","news_717","news_61","news_20949","news_20010","news_28194"],"featImg":"news_11833015","label":"news_18515"},"news_11621720":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11621720","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11621720","score":null,"sort":[1507490060000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"vice-president-pence-leaves-game-after-49ers-players-kneel-during-anthem","title":"Vice President Pence Leaves Game After 49ers Players Kneel During Anthem","publishDate":1507490060,"format":"standard","headTitle":"News Fix | KQED News","labelTerm":{"term":6944,"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp>Vice President Mike Pence left Sunday's San Francisco 49ers game against the Indianapolis Colts after more than a dozen 49ers players took a knee during the national anthem.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The former Indiana governor flew in so he could watch Peyton Manning's jersey retirement ceremony on Sunday, but Pence didn't stick around long.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"I left today's Colts game because @POTUS and I will not dignify any event that disrespects our soldiers, our Flag, or our National Anthem,\" Pence said on Twitter.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>https://twitter.com/VP/status/917074120084516865\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>About an hour later, President Trump tweeted his support of Pence saying, \"I asked @VP Pence to leave stadium if any players kneeled, disrespecting our country. I am proud of him and @SecondLady Karen.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/917091286607433728\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The White House also issued a statement from Pence, in which he says Americans should rally around the flag. \"While everyone is entitled to their own opinions,\" Pence said, \"I don't think it's too much to ask NFL players to respect the Flag and our National Anthem.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Former 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick made headlines last fall when he knelt during the national anthem to protest police violence against people of color. \"I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color,\" Kaepernick told \u003ca href=\"http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000691077/article/colin-kaepernick-explains-why-he-sat-during-national-anthem\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">NFL Media \u003c/a>at the time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Several athletes in the Bay Area and around the country have followed Kaepernick's example in \u003ca href=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/forum/2017/09/24/president-trump-picks-fight-with-warriors-and-nfl/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">recent weeks\u003c/a>, drawing the ire of the Trump administration. Oakland A's catcher Bruce Maxwell became the first MLB player to kneel during the anthem, and Trump lashed out at Golden State Warriors star Steph Curry after Curry said he hoped the team would not go to the White House for the customary championship visit.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>The Associated Press contributed reporting to this story.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"President Trump also tweeted his dismay at the 49ers decision to take a knee during the anthem.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1507676948,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":10,"wordCount":314},"headData":{"title":"Vice President Pence Leaves Game After 49ers Players Kneel During Anthem | KQED","description":"President Trump also tweeted his dismay at the 49ers decision to take a knee during the anthem.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"Vice President Pence Leaves Game After 49ers Players Kneel During Anthem","datePublished":"2017-10-08T19:14:20.000Z","dateModified":"2017-10-10T23:09:08.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"Y","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"disqusIdentifier":"11621720 https://ww2.kqed.org/news/?p=11621720","disqusUrl":"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/2017/10/08/vice-president-pence-leaves-game-after-49ers-players-kneel-during-anthem/","disqusTitle":"Vice President Pence Leaves Game After 49ers Players Kneel During Anthem","path":"/news/11621720/vice-president-pence-leaves-game-after-49ers-players-kneel-during-anthem","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Vice President Mike Pence left Sunday's San Francisco 49ers game against the Indianapolis Colts after more than a dozen 49ers players took a knee during the national anthem.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The former Indiana governor flew in so he could watch Peyton Manning's jersey retirement ceremony on Sunday, but Pence didn't stick around long.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"I left today's Colts game because @POTUS and I will not dignify any event that disrespects our soldiers, our Flag, or our National Anthem,\" Pence said on Twitter.\u003c/p>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"singleTwitterStatus","attributes":{"named":{"id":"917074120084516865"},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003cp>About an hour later, President Trump tweeted his support of Pence saying, \"I asked @VP Pence to leave stadium if any players kneeled, disrespecting our country. I am proud of him and @SecondLady Karen.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"singleTwitterStatus","attributes":{"named":{"id":"917091286607433728"},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003cp>The White House also issued a statement from Pence, in which he says Americans should rally around the flag. \"While everyone is entitled to their own opinions,\" Pence said, \"I don't think it's too much to ask NFL players to respect the Flag and our National Anthem.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Former 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick made headlines last fall when he knelt during the national anthem to protest police violence against people of color. \"I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color,\" Kaepernick told \u003ca href=\"http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000691077/article/colin-kaepernick-explains-why-he-sat-during-national-anthem\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">NFL Media \u003c/a>at the time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Several athletes in the Bay Area and around the country have followed Kaepernick's example in \u003ca href=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/forum/2017/09/24/president-trump-picks-fight-with-warriors-and-nfl/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">recent weeks\u003c/a>, drawing the ire of the Trump administration. Oakland A's catcher Bruce Maxwell became the first MLB player to kneel during the anthem, and Trump lashed out at Golden State Warriors star Steph Curry after Curry said he hoped the team would not go to the White House for the customary championship visit.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>The Associated Press contributed reporting to this story.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11621720/vice-president-pence-leaves-game-after-49ers-players-kneel-during-anthem","authors":["11260"],"programs":["news_6944"],"categories":["news_6188","news_8","news_13","news_10"],"tags":["news_3715","news_19542","news_20010","news_21677","news_505"],"featImg":"news_11621723","label":"news_6944"},"news_11115863":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11115863","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11115863","score":null,"sort":[1475622303000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"watch-live-kaine-and-pence-appear-in-vice-presidential-debate","title":"Fact Check: Tim Kaine and Mike Pence in Vice Presidential Debate","publishDate":1475622303,"format":"aside","headTitle":"The California Report | KQED News","labelTerm":{"term":72,"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp>Virginia Sen. Tim Kaine and Indiana Gov. Mike Pence squared off Tuesday night in the one and only vice presidential debate of the 2016 election. Who do you think won? Did Kaine’s performance bolster Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton? Or was Pence able to boost Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump? Let us know what you think.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Watch the PBS NewsHour coverage below, and read a full transcript of the debate with annotated fact-checking from NPR.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>https://youtu.be/is8cx0q39bI\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[http_redir][vpDebateFactCheck]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"NPR fact-checked the one and only vice presidential debate between Tim Kaine and Mike Pence. Watch the debate, and read the annotated transcript.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1475708346,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":5,"wordCount":86},"headData":{"title":"Fact Check: Tim Kaine and Mike Pence in Vice Presidential Debate | KQED","description":"NPR fact-checked the one and only vice presidential debate between Tim Kaine and Mike Pence. Watch the debate, and read the annotated transcript.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"Fact Check: Tim Kaine and Mike Pence in Vice Presidential Debate","datePublished":"2016-10-04T23:05:03.000Z","dateModified":"2016-10-05T22:59:06.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"Y","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"disqusIdentifier":"11115863 http://ww2.kqed.org/news/?p=11115863","disqusUrl":"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/2016/10/04/watch-live-kaine-and-pence-appear-in-vice-presidential-debate/","disqusTitle":"Fact Check: Tim Kaine and Mike Pence in Vice Presidential Debate","nprStoryId":"496625716","path":"/news/11115863/watch-live-kaine-and-pence-appear-in-vice-presidential-debate","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Virginia Sen. Tim Kaine and Indiana Gov. Mike Pence squared off Tuesday night in the one and only vice presidential debate of the 2016 election. Who do you think won? Did Kaine’s performance bolster Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton? Or was Pence able to boost Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump? Let us know what you think.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Watch the PBS NewsHour coverage below, and read a full transcript of the debate with annotated fact-checking from NPR.\u003c/p>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutube'>\n \u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutubeInside'>\n \u003ciframe\n loading='lazy'\n class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__youtubePlayer'\n type='text/html'\n src='//www.youtube.com/embed/is8cx0q39bI'\n title='//www.youtube.com/embed/is8cx0q39bI'\n allowfullscreen='true'\n style='border:0;'>\u003c/iframe>\n \u003c/span>\n \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cp>[http_redir][vpDebateFactCheck]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11115863/watch-live-kaine-and-pence-appear-in-vice-presidential-debate","authors":["236"],"programs":["news_6944","news_72"],"categories":["news_8","news_13"],"tags":["news_1323","news_19542","news_1866","news_20010","news_17041"],"featImg":"news_11116537","label":"news_72"},"news_11034472":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11034472","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11034472","score":null,"sort":[1469711340000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"true-mike-pence-advocated-for-gay-conversion-therapy","title":"Update: Mike Pence's Support for Conversion Therapy Not a Settled Matter","publishDate":1469711340,"format":"standard","headTitle":"Election 2016 | The California Report | KQED News","labelTerm":{"term":72,"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003ca href=\"http://www.politifact.com/california/\" target=\"_blank\">PolitiFact California\u003c/a> looks at claims made by elected officials, candidates and groups and rates them as: True, Mostly True, Half True, Mostly False, False and Pants On Fire.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Update, Dec. 2, 2016: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>EDITOR’S NOTE: On July 28, 2016, PolitiFact California \u003ca href=\"http://www.politifact.com/california/mike-pence-conversion-archived/\">rated as True\u003c/a> a statement by Democratic Lt. Gov. Gavin Newsom that Republican Indiana Governor and now Vice President-Elect Mike Pence \"advocated diverting taxpayer dollars to so-called conversion therapy.\" We based that ruling on a statement Pence made in 2000 on his congressional campaign \u003ca href=\"http://web.archive.org/web/20010519165033fw_/http://cybertext.net/pence/issues.html\">website\u003c/a>, in which Pence says \"Resources should be directed toward those institutions which provide assistance to those seeking to change their sexual behavior.\" Subsequently, our readers and other fact-checking websites examined the claim and made some points that led us to reconsider the fact check. Readers pointed out that Pence never explicitly advocated for conversion therapy in his statement and that he may have been pushing for safer sex practices. Pence’s words are open to other interpretations: Gay and lesbian leaders, for example, say his statement continues to give the impression that he supported the controversial practice of conversion therapy when his words are viewed in context with his long opposition to LGBT rights. Taking all of this into account, we are changing our rating to Half True and providing this new analysis.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>PolitiFact California’s practice is to consider new evidence and perspectives related to our fact checks, and to revise our ratings when warranted.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California Lt. Gov. Gavin Newsom joined in the chorus of attacks on Donald Trump’s choice for running mate during a speech at the Democratic National Convention in late July.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Newsom, a prominent LGBT rights supporter, said Republican Indiana Gov. and now Vice-President Elect Mike Pence \"advocated for diverting taxpayer dollars to so-called conversion therapy.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Conversion therapy is a controversial practice that seeks to change a person’s sexual orientation from gay to straight. It’s banned in five states including \u003ca href=\"http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/election/article90844347.html\">California, Oregon, Illinois, Vermont and New Jersey\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Our research\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When asked about the claim in late July, Newsom’s campaign spokesman pointed to Pence’s own words. During his first successful run for Congress in 2000, Pence wrote on his \u003ca href=\"http://web.archive.org/web/20010519165033fw_/http://cybertext.net/pence/issues.html\">campaign website\u003c/a>, under a section called Strengthening the American Family:\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"Congress should support the reauthorization of the Ryan White Care Act only after completion of an audit to ensure that federal dollars were no longer being given to organizations that celebrate and encourage the types of behaviors that facilitate the spreading of the HIV virus. Resources should be directed toward those institutions which provide assistance to those seeking to change their sexual behavior.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Many, including Newsom and other LGBT advocates, have interpreted the last portion of Pence’s statement, about \"assistance to those seeking to change their sexual behavior,\" as evidence he supported conversion therapy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The statement, however, does not explicitly mention conversion therapy. And Pence has said little, if anything, specific on the topic. We heard from a number of readers who said Pence’s words could be interpreted as supporting groups that aim to not necessarily change one’s sexual orientation, but instead as supporting groups that advocate for curbing sexual behaviors that lead to the spread of HIV/AIDS. Pence has, for example, advocated for abstinence as a way to prevent sexual diseases.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"Indeed, promoting safer sexual behaviour is a common intervention strategy in the fight against HIV/AIDS,\" reader Justin Goddard of Ontario, Canada, said in an email.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Other fact-checking websites, such as \u003ca href=\"http://www.snopes.com/mike-pence-supported-gay-conversion-therapy/\">Snopes.com\u003c/a>, have examined the claim Pence supported conversion therapy and concluded it’s not a settled case.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>LGBT rights advocates say given Pence’s extensive record of opposing gays and lesbians, his words are indeed confirmation that he supported conversion therapy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"That is very specific language — some might call it a dog whistle — that has been used for decades to very thinly cloak deeply homophobic beliefs,\" Rea Carey, executive director of the National L.G.B.T.Q. Task Force \u003ca href=\"http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/30/us/politics/mike-pence-and-conversion-therapy-a-history.html?_r=0\">told the New York Times\u003c/a> in late November. \"Particularly the phrase ‘seeking to change their sexual behavior,’ to me, is code for conversion therapy.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"It’s the most likely reading\" of Pence’s words, Rick Zbur, executive director of Equality California, an LGBT civil rights group, told PolitiFact California. \"We view this in the context of the whole record. … You can’t think of someone who is more hostile to LGBT people and people with AIDS than Mike Pence.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Also on the 2000 website, Pence wrote: \"Congress should oppose any effort to put gay and lesbian relationships on an equal legal status with heterosexual marriage.\" And \"Congress should oppose any effort to recognize homosexual’s [sic] as a 'discreet [sic] and insular minority' entitled to the protection of anti-discrimination laws similar to those extended to women and ethnic minorities.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Statement mischaracterized?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In an email exchange with PolitiFact California in late July, Pence’s spokesman Marc Lotter did not directly answer whether Pence supported conversion therapy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Four months later, Lotter \u003ca href=\"http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/30/us/politics/mike-pence-and-conversion-therapy-a-history.html?_r=0\">told the New York Times,\u003c/a> however, that it was \"patently false\" that Mr. Pence \"supported or advocated\" the practice of conversion therapy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Lotter added that Pence had been calling for federal funds to \"be directed to groups that promoted safe sexual practices\" during his 2000 congressional campaign, and he said it was a \"mischaracterization\" to interpret the statement as a reference to conversion therapy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11034710\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg class=\"size-medium wp-image-11034710\" src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/news/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2016/07/Newsom-800x558.jpg\" alt=\"Lt. Gov. Gavin Newsom speaks during Day Three of the Democratic National Convention in Philadelphia.\" width=\"800\" height=\"558\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2016/07/Newsom-800x558.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2016/07/Newsom-400x279.jpg 400w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2016/07/Newsom.jpg 1920w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2016/07/Newsom-1180x824.jpg 1180w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2016/07/Newsom-960x670.jpg 960w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Lt. Gov. Gavin Newsom speaks during Day Three of the Democratic National Convention in Philadelphia. \u003ccite>(NICHOLAS KAMM/AFP/Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Newsom’s campaign spokesman said in November he did not have any additional information pointing to Pence’s stance on conversion therapy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/election/article90844347.html\">As reported by McClatchy DC in July\u003c/a>, Pence continues to be at the center of gay rights controversy: \"Pence angered gay rights groups (in 2015) when he signed a religious freedom bill that opponents said would allow businesses to discriminate against customers based on their sexual orientation. Pence later backtracked, when state lawmakers changed the law to say that no discrimination would be allowed.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At the Republican National Convention this summer, the McClatchy news service noted: \"Delegates voted to approve a \u003ca href=\"https://prod-static-ngop-pbl.s3.amazonaws.com/media/documents/DRAFT_12_FINAL%5b1%5d-ben_1468872234.pdf?mid=76323&rid=13489618\">platform\u003c/a> that backs the right of parents to determine the proper medical treatment and therapy for their minor children. The platform makes no specific mention of gay conversion therapy, but critics say that passage is aimed at accepting the notion that one’s sexual orientation can be changed.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>GOP Party Chairman Reince Priebus, who President-Elect Donald Trump has selected as chief of staff for the incoming administration, \u003ca href=\"http://bigstory.ap.org/article/3f197b7c41e749cba74adbcceb8b6bf8/ap-interview-priebus-declares-rebellion-against-trump-dead\">has denied\u003c/a> that passage encourages conversion therapy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Our ruling\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California Lt. Gov. Gavin Newsom said Indiana Governor and now Vice President-Elect Mike Pence \"advocated for diverting taxpayer dollars to so-called conversion therapy.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Pence’s own words on his campaign website from 2000, specifically a passage that calls for funding groups that give \"assistance to those seeking to change their sexual behavior,\" have been interpreted by LGBT advocates as supporting the controversial practice.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Pence’s statement, however, does not explicitly mention conversion therapy. Readers and other fact-checking outlets have said Pence may have been calling for safer sexual sexual practices rather than pushing for efforts to change one’s sexual orientation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When asked about the statement in July, Pence’s spokesman Marc Lotter did not directly answer whether the Indiana governor supports the practice. Months later, Lotter strongly denied that Pence supports conversion therapy and said Pence was calling for funds to \"be directed to groups that promoted safe sexual practices\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Given Pence’s strong and extensive opposition to LGBT rights, his words in 2000 have been widely interpreted as supporting the controversial practice. Rea Carey, executive director of the National L.G.B.T.Q. Task Force, has called them \"a dog whistle\" for like-minded supporters of conversion therapy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Newsom’s definitive claim, however, that Pence advocated for conversion therapy is not fully supported.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We rate it Half True.\u003c/p>\n\u003chr>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003cstrong>HALF TRUE\u003c/strong> – The statement is partially accurate but leaves out important details or takes things out of context.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2011/feb/21/principles-truth-o-meter/\">Click here for more\u003c/a> on the six PolitiFact ratings and how we select facts to check.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For more fact-checks, go to \u003ca href=\"http://politifactcalifornia.com/\">PolitiFactCalifornia.com.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This story is part of California Counts, a collaboration of KPBS, KPCC, KQED and Capital Public Radio to report on the 2016 election. The coverage focuses on major issues and solicits diverse voices on what’s important to the future of California.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/news/tag/cacounts\">Read more in this series\u003c/a> and let us know your thoughts on Twitter using the hashtag \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/search?q=%23iamsouthla&src=typd\">#\u003c/a>\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/search?q=%23CACounts&src=typd\">CACounts\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"At the DNC this week, Lt. Gov. Gavin Newsom said Donald Trump’s running mate advocated for spending taxpayer dollars on gay 'conversion therapy.’ PolitiFact rates the statement as true.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1480718221,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":40,"wordCount":1465},"headData":{"title":"Update: Mike Pence's Support for Conversion Therapy Not a Settled Matter | KQED","description":"At the DNC this week, Lt. Gov. Gavin Newsom said Donald Trump’s running mate advocated for spending taxpayer dollars on gay 'conversion therapy.’ PolitiFact rates the statement as true.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"Update: Mike Pence's Support for Conversion Therapy Not a Settled Matter","datePublished":"2016-07-28T13:09:00.000Z","dateModified":"2016-12-02T22:37:01.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"Y","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"disqusIdentifier":"11034472 http://ww2.kqed.org/news/?p=11034472","disqusUrl":"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/2016/07/28/true-mike-pence-advocated-for-gay-conversion-therapy/","disqusTitle":"Update: Mike Pence's Support for Conversion Therapy Not a Settled Matter","nprByline":"\u003cstrong>\u003ca href=\"http://www.politifact.com/california/staff/chris-nichols/\">Chris Nichols\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\u003ca href=\"http://www.politifact.com/california/\">PolitiFact\u003c/a>\u003c/strong>","nprStoryId":"491843334","path":"/news/11034472/true-mike-pence-advocated-for-gay-conversion-therapy","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003ca href=\"http://www.politifact.com/california/\" target=\"_blank\">PolitiFact California\u003c/a> looks at claims made by elected officials, candidates and groups and rates them as: True, Mostly True, Half True, Mostly False, False and Pants On Fire.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Update, Dec. 2, 2016: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>EDITOR’S NOTE: On July 28, 2016, PolitiFact California \u003ca href=\"http://www.politifact.com/california/mike-pence-conversion-archived/\">rated as True\u003c/a> a statement by Democratic Lt. Gov. Gavin Newsom that Republican Indiana Governor and now Vice President-Elect Mike Pence \"advocated diverting taxpayer dollars to so-called conversion therapy.\" We based that ruling on a statement Pence made in 2000 on his congressional campaign \u003ca href=\"http://web.archive.org/web/20010519165033fw_/http://cybertext.net/pence/issues.html\">website\u003c/a>, in which Pence says \"Resources should be directed toward those institutions which provide assistance to those seeking to change their sexual behavior.\" Subsequently, our readers and other fact-checking websites examined the claim and made some points that led us to reconsider the fact check. Readers pointed out that Pence never explicitly advocated for conversion therapy in his statement and that he may have been pushing for safer sex practices. Pence’s words are open to other interpretations: Gay and lesbian leaders, for example, say his statement continues to give the impression that he supported the controversial practice of conversion therapy when his words are viewed in context with his long opposition to LGBT rights. Taking all of this into account, we are changing our rating to Half True and providing this new analysis.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>PolitiFact California’s practice is to consider new evidence and perspectives related to our fact checks, and to revise our ratings when warranted.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California Lt. Gov. Gavin Newsom joined in the chorus of attacks on Donald Trump’s choice for running mate during a speech at the Democratic National Convention in late July.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Newsom, a prominent LGBT rights supporter, said Republican Indiana Gov. and now Vice-President Elect Mike Pence \"advocated for diverting taxpayer dollars to so-called conversion therapy.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Conversion therapy is a controversial practice that seeks to change a person’s sexual orientation from gay to straight. It’s banned in five states including \u003ca href=\"http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/election/article90844347.html\">California, Oregon, Illinois, Vermont and New Jersey\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Our research\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When asked about the claim in late July, Newsom’s campaign spokesman pointed to Pence’s own words. During his first successful run for Congress in 2000, Pence wrote on his \u003ca href=\"http://web.archive.org/web/20010519165033fw_/http://cybertext.net/pence/issues.html\">campaign website\u003c/a>, under a section called Strengthening the American Family:\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"Congress should support the reauthorization of the Ryan White Care Act only after completion of an audit to ensure that federal dollars were no longer being given to organizations that celebrate and encourage the types of behaviors that facilitate the spreading of the HIV virus. Resources should be directed toward those institutions which provide assistance to those seeking to change their sexual behavior.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Many, including Newsom and other LGBT advocates, have interpreted the last portion of Pence’s statement, about \"assistance to those seeking to change their sexual behavior,\" as evidence he supported conversion therapy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The statement, however, does not explicitly mention conversion therapy. And Pence has said little, if anything, specific on the topic. We heard from a number of readers who said Pence’s words could be interpreted as supporting groups that aim to not necessarily change one’s sexual orientation, but instead as supporting groups that advocate for curbing sexual behaviors that lead to the spread of HIV/AIDS. Pence has, for example, advocated for abstinence as a way to prevent sexual diseases.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"Indeed, promoting safer sexual behaviour is a common intervention strategy in the fight against HIV/AIDS,\" reader Justin Goddard of Ontario, Canada, said in an email.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Other fact-checking websites, such as \u003ca href=\"http://www.snopes.com/mike-pence-supported-gay-conversion-therapy/\">Snopes.com\u003c/a>, have examined the claim Pence supported conversion therapy and concluded it’s not a settled case.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>LGBT rights advocates say given Pence’s extensive record of opposing gays and lesbians, his words are indeed confirmation that he supported conversion therapy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"That is very specific language — some might call it a dog whistle — that has been used for decades to very thinly cloak deeply homophobic beliefs,\" Rea Carey, executive director of the National L.G.B.T.Q. Task Force \u003ca href=\"http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/30/us/politics/mike-pence-and-conversion-therapy-a-history.html?_r=0\">told the New York Times\u003c/a> in late November. \"Particularly the phrase ‘seeking to change their sexual behavior,’ to me, is code for conversion therapy.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"It’s the most likely reading\" of Pence’s words, Rick Zbur, executive director of Equality California, an LGBT civil rights group, told PolitiFact California. \"We view this in the context of the whole record. … You can’t think of someone who is more hostile to LGBT people and people with AIDS than Mike Pence.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Also on the 2000 website, Pence wrote: \"Congress should oppose any effort to put gay and lesbian relationships on an equal legal status with heterosexual marriage.\" And \"Congress should oppose any effort to recognize homosexual’s [sic] as a 'discreet [sic] and insular minority' entitled to the protection of anti-discrimination laws similar to those extended to women and ethnic minorities.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Statement mischaracterized?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In an email exchange with PolitiFact California in late July, Pence’s spokesman Marc Lotter did not directly answer whether Pence supported conversion therapy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Four months later, Lotter \u003ca href=\"http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/30/us/politics/mike-pence-and-conversion-therapy-a-history.html?_r=0\">told the New York Times,\u003c/a> however, that it was \"patently false\" that Mr. Pence \"supported or advocated\" the practice of conversion therapy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Lotter added that Pence had been calling for federal funds to \"be directed to groups that promoted safe sexual practices\" during his 2000 congressional campaign, and he said it was a \"mischaracterization\" to interpret the statement as a reference to conversion therapy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11034710\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg class=\"size-medium wp-image-11034710\" src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/news/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2016/07/Newsom-800x558.jpg\" alt=\"Lt. Gov. Gavin Newsom speaks during Day Three of the Democratic National Convention in Philadelphia.\" width=\"800\" height=\"558\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2016/07/Newsom-800x558.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2016/07/Newsom-400x279.jpg 400w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2016/07/Newsom.jpg 1920w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2016/07/Newsom-1180x824.jpg 1180w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2016/07/Newsom-960x670.jpg 960w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Lt. Gov. Gavin Newsom speaks during Day Three of the Democratic National Convention in Philadelphia. \u003ccite>(NICHOLAS KAMM/AFP/Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Newsom’s campaign spokesman said in November he did not have any additional information pointing to Pence’s stance on conversion therapy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/election/article90844347.html\">As reported by McClatchy DC in July\u003c/a>, Pence continues to be at the center of gay rights controversy: \"Pence angered gay rights groups (in 2015) when he signed a religious freedom bill that opponents said would allow businesses to discriminate against customers based on their sexual orientation. Pence later backtracked, when state lawmakers changed the law to say that no discrimination would be allowed.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At the Republican National Convention this summer, the McClatchy news service noted: \"Delegates voted to approve a \u003ca href=\"https://prod-static-ngop-pbl.s3.amazonaws.com/media/documents/DRAFT_12_FINAL%5b1%5d-ben_1468872234.pdf?mid=76323&rid=13489618\">platform\u003c/a> that backs the right of parents to determine the proper medical treatment and therapy for their minor children. The platform makes no specific mention of gay conversion therapy, but critics say that passage is aimed at accepting the notion that one’s sexual orientation can be changed.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>GOP Party Chairman Reince Priebus, who President-Elect Donald Trump has selected as chief of staff for the incoming administration, \u003ca href=\"http://bigstory.ap.org/article/3f197b7c41e749cba74adbcceb8b6bf8/ap-interview-priebus-declares-rebellion-against-trump-dead\">has denied\u003c/a> that passage encourages conversion therapy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Our ruling\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California Lt. Gov. Gavin Newsom said Indiana Governor and now Vice President-Elect Mike Pence \"advocated for diverting taxpayer dollars to so-called conversion therapy.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Pence’s own words on his campaign website from 2000, specifically a passage that calls for funding groups that give \"assistance to those seeking to change their sexual behavior,\" have been interpreted by LGBT advocates as supporting the controversial practice.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Pence’s statement, however, does not explicitly mention conversion therapy. Readers and other fact-checking outlets have said Pence may have been calling for safer sexual sexual practices rather than pushing for efforts to change one’s sexual orientation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When asked about the statement in July, Pence’s spokesman Marc Lotter did not directly answer whether the Indiana governor supports the practice. Months later, Lotter strongly denied that Pence supports conversion therapy and said Pence was calling for funds to \"be directed to groups that promoted safe sexual practices\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Given Pence’s strong and extensive opposition to LGBT rights, his words in 2000 have been widely interpreted as supporting the controversial practice. Rea Carey, executive director of the National L.G.B.T.Q. Task Force, has called them \"a dog whistle\" for like-minded supporters of conversion therapy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Newsom’s definitive claim, however, that Pence advocated for conversion therapy is not fully supported.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We rate it Half True.\u003c/p>\n\u003chr>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003cstrong>HALF TRUE\u003c/strong> – The statement is partially accurate but leaves out important details or takes things out of context.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2011/feb/21/principles-truth-o-meter/\">Click here for more\u003c/a> on the six PolitiFact ratings and how we select facts to check.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For more fact-checks, go to \u003ca href=\"http://politifactcalifornia.com/\">PolitiFactCalifornia.com.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This story is part of California Counts, a collaboration of KPBS, KPCC, KQED and Capital Public Radio to report on the 2016 election. The coverage focuses on major issues and solicits diverse voices on what’s important to the future of California.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/news/tag/cacounts\">Read more in this series\u003c/a> and let us know your thoughts on Twitter using the hashtag \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/search?q=%23iamsouthla&src=typd\">#\u003c/a>\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/search?q=%23CACounts&src=typd\">CACounts\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11034472/true-mike-pence-advocated-for-gay-conversion-therapy","authors":["byline_news_11034472"],"programs":["news_72"],"series":["news_19101"],"categories":["news_8","news_13"],"tags":["news_19572","news_19217","news_16","news_82","news_20010","news_17286"],"featImg":"news_11034655","label":"news_72"}},"programsReducer":{"possible":{"id":"possible","title":"Possible","info":"Possible is hosted by entrepreneur Reid Hoffman and writer Aria Finger. Together in Possible, Hoffman and Finger lead enlightening discussions about building a brighter collective future. The show features interviews with visionary guests like Trevor Noah, Sam Altman and Janette Sadik-Khan. Possible paints an optimistic portrait of the world we can create through science, policy, business, art and our shared humanity. It asks: What if everything goes right for once? How can we get there? Each episode also includes a short fiction story generated by advanced AI GPT-4, serving as a thought-provoking springboard to speculate how humanity could leverage technology for good.","airtime":"SUN 2pm","imageSrc":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Possible-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg","officialWebsiteLink":"https://www.possible.fm/","meta":{"site":"news","source":"Possible"},"link":"/radio/program/possible","subscribe":{"apple":"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/possible/id1677184070","spotify":"https://open.spotify.com/show/730YpdUSNlMyPQwNnyjp4k"}},"1a":{"id":"1a","title":"1A","info":"1A is home to the national conversation. 1A brings on great guests and frames the best debate in ways that make you think, share and engage.","airtime":"MON-THU 11pm-12am","imageSrc":"https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/04/1a.jpg","officialWebsiteLink":"https://the1a.org/","meta":{"site":"news","source":"npr"},"link":"/radio/program/1a","subscribe":{"npr":"https://rpb3r.app.goo.gl/RBrW","apple":"https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?s=143441&mt=2&id=1188724250&at=11l79Y&ct=nprdirectory","tuneIn":"https://tunein.com/radio/1A-p947376/","rss":"https://feeds.npr.org/510316/podcast.xml"}},"all-things-considered":{"id":"all-things-considered","title":"All Things Considered","info":"Every weekday, \u003cem>All Things Considered\u003c/em> hosts Robert Siegel, Audie Cornish, Ari Shapiro, and Kelly McEvers present the program's trademark mix of news, interviews, commentaries, reviews, and offbeat features. Michel Martin hosts on the weekends.","airtime":"MON-FRI 1pm-2pm, 4:30pm-6:30pm\u003cbr />SAT-SUN 5pm-6pm","imageSrc":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/All-Things-Considered-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg","officialWebsiteLink":"https://www.npr.org/programs/all-things-considered/","meta":{"site":"news","source":"npr"},"link":"/radio/program/all-things-considered"},"american-suburb-podcast":{"id":"american-suburb-podcast","title":"American Suburb: The Podcast","tagline":"The flip side of gentrification, told through one town","info":"Gentrification is changing cities across America, forcing people from neighborhoods they have long called home. Call them the displaced. Now those priced out of the Bay Area are looking for a better life in an unlikely place. American Suburb follows this migration to one California town along the Delta, 45 miles from San Francisco. 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You can also visit the MindShift website for episodes and supplemental blog posts or tweet us \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/MindShiftKQED\">@MindShiftKQED\u003c/a> or visit us at \u003ca href=\"/mindshift\">MindShift.KQED.org\u003c/a>","imageSrc":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Mindshift-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg","imageAlt":"KQED MindShift: How We Will Learn","officialWebsiteLink":"/mindshift/","meta":{"site":"news","source":"kqed","order":"2"},"link":"/podcasts/mindshift","subscribe":{"apple":"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/mindshift-podcast/id1078765985","google":"https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vS1FJTkM1NzY0NjAwNDI5","npr":"https://www.npr.org/podcasts/464615685/mind-shift-podcast","stitcher":"https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/kqed/stories-teachers-share","spotify":"https://open.spotify.com/show/0MxSpNYZKNprFLCl7eEtyx"}},"morning-edition":{"id":"morning-edition","title":"Morning Edition","info":"\u003cem>Morning Edition\u003c/em> takes listeners around the country and the world with multi-faceted stories and commentaries every weekday. 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On Our Watch brings listeners into the rooms where officers are questioned and witnesses are interrogated to find out who this system is really protecting. Is it the officers, or the public they've sworn to serve?","imageSrc":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/On-Our-Watch-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg","imageAlt":"On Our Watch from NPR and KQED","officialWebsiteLink":"/podcasts/onourwatch","meta":{"site":"news","source":"kqed","order":"1"},"link":"/podcasts/onourwatch","subscribe":{"apple":"https://podcasts.apple.com/podcast/id1567098962","google":"https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5ucHIub3JnLzUxMDM2MC9wb2RjYXN0LnhtbD9zYz1nb29nbGVwb2RjYXN0cw","npr":"https://rpb3r.app.goo.gl/onourwatch","spotify":"https://open.spotify.com/show/0OLWoyizopu6tY1XiuX70x","tuneIn":"https://tunein.com/radio/On-Our-Watch-p1436229/","stitcher":"https://www.stitcher.com/show/on-our-watch","rss":"https://feeds.npr.org/510360/podcast.xml"}},"on-the-media":{"id":"on-the-media","title":"On The Media","info":"Our weekly podcast explores how the media 'sausage' is made, casts an incisive eye on fluctuations in the marketplace of ideas, and examines threats to the freedom of information and expression in America and abroad. 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