Ericka Cruz Guevarra: I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, and welcome to the Bay. Local News to Keep You Rooted. Growing up, Ally Markovich loved to climb things.
Ally Markovich: I was always scrambling on trees and rocks. And yeah, one of my first dream jobs is to be a tree climber.
Ericka Cruz Guevarra: For Ally, now a reporter with Berkeleyside climbing was a gateway to the outdoors. So about five years ago, she got into climbing as a sport. She loved the way that her body felt moving in all these new ways.
Ally Markovich: I love this sense of achievement. When I succeeded at a climb that I couldn’t even start a couple of weeks ago. Now it’s a huge part of my life.
Ericka Cruz Guevarra: Some of Ally’s favorite spots to climb are Indian and mortar rocks, these famous boulders tucked into an upscale residential neighborhood in Berkeley. Dozens of people visit the rocks every day for the breathtaking views of the Bay Area from the top. And lots of climbers like Ali go there to grab the same holds that legends of the sport once did. These rocks are sacred not just for climbers, but for native communities who have made the Bay Area home for thousands of years. Even though that cultural significance is rarely recognized by those who visit. For native people, the invisible history of the rocks is representative of a destroyed cultural landscape worth protecting.
Ally Markovich: Indigenous people have for a long time been excluded from telling the story of Berkeley and of Indian and water rocks. And yet through that there’s their incredible resistance and survival, and they’re still here and fighting for their rights.
Ericka Cruz Guevarra: Today, we’ll talk with Ally Markovich about her two part series for Berkeley Side on the native history of Indian and water rocks and the role that climbers like her can play in helping to remember it. Stay with us.
Ericka Cruz Guevarra: So I’ve been to Indian Rock to hang out with my friends before, as many people do. But for those who maybe aren’t familiar, can you describe these rocks and where they are?
Ally Markovich: Indian and mortar rocks are a handful of boulders nestled into a prestigious neighborhood near the base of the Berkeley Hills. They’re not too much taller than the houses nearby, but from the top of Indian rock, you have this super beautiful view of the bay. It feels like you can see everything. The Golden Gate Bridge, the cranes in West Oakland Mountain. It’s that view that draws so many people to the rocks. It’s just one of those iconic Berkeley places. Like if you live in the East Bay, chances are you visited Indian Rock to watch the sunset. Maybe you shared Cheeseboard pizza like me with your friends at the top. And it’s also an extremely popular motoring destination.
Ericka Cruz Guevarra: What is the allure of these rocks in the climbing community specifically?
Ally Markovich: It’s like a rare spot where there’s like really good solid rock climbing, even though it’s in a small space, right in a city. And it’s not that hard to get to A lot of climbing. Legends have climbed here, starting in about in the 1930s. People will definitely recognize Alex Honnold. People like Dave and Brad and Dick Leonard, who end up leading the Sierra Club in the thirties. A lot of techniques around safety that actually engendered a lot of the ambitious, roped climbing in Yosemite sort of started at Indian Rock, and then later the sport of climbing in general began to transition to something much more powerful and dynamic, and the dynamism became defining elements.
Ally Markovich: And one of the places that that happened was in the shift of climbers from Indian Rock across the street to murder rock. And I think it remains a really important goalpost for climbers. But there’s also the like, spirit of the place or something like a little something a little bit more magical, like guidebooks call the rocks, the heart and soul of Bay Area climbing, or also heard the granddaddy of Bay area climbing. And I think that combination captures it. And it’s the kind of place that a lot of climbers devote their lives to. So I think there’s something about them that inspire this. Kind of devotional level of commitment to the rocks.
Ericka Cruz Guevarra: I’m curious what role they’ve played in your climbing journey over the years. I mean, are they places you you frequent as a as a climber?
Ally Markovich: I climb there a lot during the pandemic when climbing gyms closed. And so it became during that time an important place of respect for me and a place that I could connect with my friends, connect with nature. And Indian Rock was one of those places where I could find those special, momentary, fleeting connections with people I didn’t know, which I really loved.
Ericka Cruz Guevarra: It sounds like it’s been a big part of your life as a climber, especially in the last couple of years and as someone living in Berkeley. How then did you start reporting on this longer storied history of these rocks beyond the climbing world?
Ally Markovich: In some ways I started with an obvious question, which was Why is this place called Indian Rock? I wanted to know what a lot of people thought of the rock climbers. I wondered whether a lot of people thought that coming on these rocks was problematic. I also wanted to know about the space in general. Like, why? Why the rocks became parks? Who made them? Yeah. But those are some of the questions that I started off with.
Ericka Cruz Guevarra: And also, like, what what exactly, I guess, is the the significance of these rocks to Native folks? What did you learn about the role that these rocks have played in the lives of the native communities in the Bay Area?
Ally Markovich: So I learned that the rocks are a link between the past and the present for a many people who have made the Bay Area home for thousands of years, or, as I’d say, since time immemorial or the beginning of the world. And it remains a place of cultural significance to a lot of people. Today, I got to be immersed in an entire world view. One aspect of that is many. Aloni like many indigenous people, see things in the natural world like rocks as living beings with a life of their own, a personality of their own. They see them as ancestors or relatives. That’s something that I already really. Felt in some ways being an Indian rock. That’s what drew me to this story, this feeling that there was like more here than just a rock. But learning about the indigenous perspective on that was really powerful.
Ericka Cruz Guevarra: Can you tell me who you met to sort of help you learn about this native history? And what are some of the things that they told you about their connections to these rocks?
Ally Markovich: Two of the women I met were Monica Arellano and Gloria Arellano Gomez. Monicas the vice chair of the Maloney Tribe, and Gloria is her sister and a former council member of the tribe.
Monica Arellano: They were used to processed plant meat and fish. Are people gathered? And why are there so many of the mortars? And in one location? Because it was like a social gathering.
Ally Markovich: They brought their three children to the rocks who immediately just disappeared into the park, running around, exploring, doing kid things.
Monica Arellano: They don’t even realize how special this site is. Right. Yeah. The spiritual elements, I guess you could say to an otro significant.
Ally Markovich: There is a powerful moment in the story when Monica sees herself and her family reflected there and how a lonely ancestors might have also spent time in that same place. Families talking, preparing food while their children scamper around.
Monica Arellano: It’s like, Wow, you know, our ancestors walked through here. They use this as a processing location. They visited, you know, just like our children are running around right now. You know, our ancestors, the little children riding around. So to have that, you know, that kind of reflection, it just like, I don’t know, it makes me emotional, you know? And I appreciate that. It’s still here.
Ericka Cruz Guevarra: So many people visit these rocks every day in Berkeley. And this native history doesn’t always necessarily feel present. So why don’t you think more people know about it?
Ally Markovich: Indigenous people have for a long time been excluded from telling the story of Berkeley and of Indian and mortar rocks. I think the names are actually really emblematic of the attempts to erase the indigenous people from the stories. If you think about a name like Indian Rock, it couldn’t be more inaccurate or anonymous. California was densely populated with diverse groups of indigenous people with different traditions and stories and cultures, and then settlers slapped on Indian Rock, eclipsing all of those rich histories.
Corrina Gould: How do we figure out how to take care of these special places?
Ally Markovich: I also met Corrina Gould at the Rocks. Corrina leads the Confederated Villages of Legion and this Great Land Trust. She says Berkeley grew up without us here for the most part.
Corrina Gould: How do we know how to ask permission as guests on this land?
Ally Markovich: I think you’re right. Visitors really rarely engage with native history at the parks, beyond on site parks, if they even pay attention to that. But I think what’s missing from that story is the living culture of the Yellowknife people. They’re current. They’re very much alive. Not in the past. I think people don’t recognize the ongoing development of the culture that exists today.
Ericka Cruz Guevarra: What does it meant that the native significance has not been recognized.
Ally Markovich: Historically when climbers are practicing the techniques that they were developing in the thirties and forties. That was in some ways a time when more of a damage happened to the rock. So, for example, hammering in nails called pitons into the rocks repeatedly would scar out a crack and widen it. So that’s an example of the kind of damage that is, I wouldn’t say widespread at the rocks, but is there for sure.
Ally Markovich: So I think one of the products of people’s ignorance is that if they’re engaging with the waters at all, non-Indigenous people are often doing so without understanding their significance to Indigenous people and the rich history that preceded them. So when I started reporting this story, someone or many people maybe had been grinding in the mortars. Some native people consider that to be desecration.
Corrina Gould: If this was a church for a synagogue, something like that, that happened, maybe use that as though it was a hate crime.
Ally Markovich: Corrina had heard that the mortars had been damaged. And when we got there, she made a beeline for the mortars around the back of modern Rock Park. And and when she saw the damage, she called it a huge wound. This is the first 10 minutes of us meeting each other, and it introduced me to her view of Indian and mortar rocks as a sacred place. I think it’s notable that at the top of Indian rock, that beautiful view we all enjoy is a view of what Karina called the Western gate, where the Golden Gate Bridge now is. As Corrina said, the WHO channel only saw that as the end of their world. And in the religion, she said, spirits leave the world through the western gate. So it’s really notable that that’s a place that gives access to that view, and maybe in part because of that is a spiritual place.
Ericka Cruz Guevarra: Well, I’m wondering, Ally, how would people like Corrina and Monica like to see the native significance of these rocks honored? Like, what would that look like exactly for them?
Ally Markovich: Monica Arellano said that she would love to see the park renamed by the city in the ten year old only language as opposed to having it be called the murder rock. She also talked about wanting to add more prominent signage. She does like it’s hard for people to realize and have appreciation for the cultural significance of the place. For Corrina, she would prefer a place that references the area’s significance as a sacred place. And one thing that she talked about was what it might be like to hold private ceremonies at Indian Rock. You know, for there to be a time where she and other native people could gather when the park was closed to the general public and, you know, renew the relationship with that area.
Ericka Cruz Guevarra: Oh, I want to move on to kind of come back to you as a reporter, but also as a climber and someone who has an appreciation and a reverence for these rocks. I mean, you did all this reporting for over a year. Is it fair to say your reporting has changed your relationship with these rocks and to climbing as well?
Ally Markovich: It has. I think climbers are really good at seeing a lot of aspects of the rock that are invisible to other people, like they’re good at making out a route out of just what someone else looks like, a sheer wall face. You know, they’re really good at knowing just the right way to tell whether a hold is going to crumble out from under them and they shouldn’t touch it or whether it’s strong. But what I think that we are not as good at as climbers is listening to the other stories that the rocks are telling.
Ally Markovich: Something that I love about Corrina Gould said was The Rocks will tell us these stories if we listen to them. And I think it’s made me try to be more attuned to the other stories of not only Indian and water rocks, but of the other places that I’m climbing. On a broader scale. It’s not just Indian rock. It’s in too many indigenous people. It’s an entire sacred landscape, right, that’s been developed into these bustling cities that so many of us love and that we call home.
Ally Markovich: And so I think like how we engage with the significance of a place like Indian and mortar rock in some ways begs the question of, like, how do we engage with our cities, given the fact that these are really significant landscapes as a whole to native people that have been in many ways taken over?
Ericka Cruz Guevarra: Ally, I really appreciate you for sharing your story with us and your reporting as well. Thank you so much for for joining us on the show.
Ally Markovich: Yeah, thank you for having me. I really enjoyed the conversation.
Ericka Cruz Guevarra: That was Ally Markovich, a reporter for Berkeleyside. By the way, if you want to read Ally’s two part series for Berkeley side on Indian and Mortar rocks, I’ll leave you link to the stories in our show news. This conversation with Ally was cut down and edited by producer Maria Esquinca.
