House Speaker Paul Ryan R-Wisconsin speaks at a press conference on repealing Obama Care and its replacement at the US Capitol on January 10, 2017 in Washington,DC.

House Republicans, led by Speaker Paul Ryan, released a long-awaited plan to repeal and replace the Affordable Care Act on Monday. The new legislation, entitled the American Health Care Act, would keep intact the Obamacare provisions for pre-existing conditions, but would eliminate the mandate that all Americans have health insurance and would roll back Medicaid expansion. We discuss the proposed ACA replacement, which still faces some major challenges from both sides of the political aisle.

Read the American Health Care Act

Guests:
Carrie Feibel, health editor, KQED
Jacob Hacker, professor of Political Science and resident fellow at the Institution for Social and Policy Studies, Yale University
Grace-Marie Turner, president, Galen Institute

  • EIDALM

    The Republicans. so called healthcare act is made and brought to you by all for profit out of control giant American health not caring corporations, summery of it is if get sick,but poor and can not pay their obscenely high premiums, you might as well just die…..

  • Paul

    It was always unconstitutional to force Americans to purchase the products of multinational insurance companies. Obamacare was an awful plan invented by the heritage think tank and defended by the same foolish liberals who are frequently defending conservatism these days such as the liberals who defend the highly conservative slavery-supporting mysogynist cult of Islam. I expect such wrong headedness is the result of weak minded liberals being radicalized online.

    • optikool

      Is it also unconstitutional to force Americans to purchase Car Insurance or Homeowners Insurance? And should it also be unconstitutional to make Americans pay for people that don’t have insurance but end up at the hospital when something happens to them, through our taxes, as was the case before the ACA?

      • Paul

        That’s required at the state level so it’s a different constitution that’s in force..

        • optikool

          So you admit that it’s required… that’s progress..

          • Paul

            We are all just wage salves on a big plantation run by corporate masters. ACA reinforces that arrangement.

          • optikool

            Still not seeing your point. If Republicans let this bill pass, we will be right back where we started before the ACA, were insurance companies had complete control over our health. The ACA was a start and it could have been improved if Republicans had worked with Obama, but they decided it would be better to make the ACA fail and then blame it instead of themselves for it’s failure. Just goes to show how much they care about your average citizen…

          • Paul

            We need a fundamentally new approach.
            Why do poor Cubans have excellent healthcare?
            Why do the French?
            Perhaps if the 1% will never let us be healthy in peace, we should just fly to Cuba or India for health care.

          • optikool

            It’s because Republicans have an Every Man For Himself attitude. It would have been nice if Obama had a little of the Trump drive, without the ignorance, and just told Republicans in Congress to go screw themselves the day Mitch Mcconnell said they would block everything and make Obama a one term President, and just went all out with single payer. But he decided to give them the benefit of the doubt, one of the few gripes I have about him, and work with Republicans because they kept complaining about Democrats not working across the aisle. But even after Democrats allowed Republicans to include amendments, amendments like defunding Medicare, they still voted against it. In my mind they have no credibility and anything they say, will most likely be a lie…

          • Paul

            No its because our 1% views all non-millionaires as only 3/5 human.

      • Curious

        You don’t have to own a car or a home.

    • Lelo C

      i don’t think it’s better to have an authoritarian-regime-to-be like trump administration. Do you seriously want to live in Russian? where the country is ruled by a bunch or corrupt oligarchs and people are miserable? I don’t . if trump keeps going that’s where we’re heading. in the civil war alot of southern slave owners also thought themselves as upright christians. in case you forgot that. there are bad apples in each religion. albeit at different times. religious text were written thousands of years ago when time and thinking were very different. but unfortunately the fanatics take it literally. we also have alot of people like that here. a few of them regularly knock on my door and ask me if i want to join their church bc aren’t i afraid the world is coming to an end..

      • Kevin Skipper

        Working for despotic corporate oligarchs!?!?! Imagine that! Black folks, can YOU imagine that? Immigrants?

        Either way, the future has Americans working for the Chinese to buy Japanese entertainment and beg for German civil rights all the while speaking English, drinking Scotch and fighting like the Irish. French kiss your freedom goodbye as it has kidnapped itself, along with a double Dutch brand of democracy. Think about that the next time you embrace Scandinavian socialism or Mexican cannabis.

        We switched America’s brand of terror from African to Iraqi to Afghanistani and back again. Think they’ll know the difference?

      • Paul

        Yes. From Wikipedia:
        The Constitution of the Russian Federation has provided all citizens the right to free healthcare under Mandatory Medical Insurance since 1996. In 2008, 621,000 doctors and 1.3 million nurses were employed in Russian healthcare. The number of doctors per 10,000 people was 43.8, but only 12.1 in rural areas.

        Medicare for all is the only plan that will make America competitive.

        • Kevin Skipper

          I hear that. At the same time, I disagree. Given the price of drugs and physicians salaries, Medicare is not affordable on a market level without crippling subsidies. Seems that it’s a big part of what got us into this discussion. At some point, we must bite the bullet and stop overfeeding our insurers and stop overpaying our doctors. Nobody else in the world entitles themselves to such extravagances.

          • Paul

            I’d be OK with higher taxes to pay for universal health care, especially if homeowners pay for it with new property taxes.

          • Kevin Skipper

            The absence of corporate property taxes might account for the gap. Private citizens depend on their salaries to cover the insurance discrepancies.

          • William – SF

            My brother-in-law “the-doctor” would argue he’s over worked and underpaid, and if that doesn’t convince you his wife will brow beat you into acknowledging the same – but pay no mind to abundance of things everywhere … they suffer in luxury, don’t you, don’t we all?

          • Kevin Skipper

            He’s probably employed by some form of HMO and he’s likely telling the truth. The same structure that overpays for medical expertise overloads resident physicians with requisite management and HR concerns. Paradoxical on all sides.

          • Fielding Mellish

            Healthcare providers/insurers will maintain their margins or leave town. Everyday a new drug or procedure is discovered that can treat every imaginable ailment(real or imagined)that is demanded by %95 of every patient.
            I’d pay a weeks salary to watch you try and tell a patient..

            “I’m sorry you’re 88yrs old but it doesn’t make financial sense to treat you at all cost”

            Maybe the countries NOT over feeding insurers and doctors DO tell some patients this ?

          • Kevin Skipper

            Save your wages. Look around you. It’s told to 88 year-olds every day.

    • Kevin Skipper

      What’s that disgruntled sound I hear? Sounds like somebody needs a healthy dose of Act-Ions. They’re guaranteed to change everything i ways that nobody can figure out!

  • optikool

    Republican governors and Republicans in congress keep saying that the ACA is collapsing under it’s own weight… my question to them, that for some odd reason the media, like NPR, doesn’t ask is, which state is having this problem, is it a red state or blue state? And what did the governors of those states do to make the ACA work in their states? It’s misleading to say that the ACA is failing and then try to get people to believe they had nothing to do with it’s failure… It’s also cowardice to put off the more devastating effects this is going to have on poor and middle class till after Republicans are re elected in 2018 and the President in 2020.

    • Paul

      You must be one of those pampered corporate workers who has a top of the line plan. Ask a regular working person what they think of the bronze plans.

      • Kevin Skipper

        Hey, did you say that you used to own your own company? Seems that there are more than a few freelancers around here…

      • optikool

        What does that even mean? Are you saying because my insurance now comes from my company instead of the ACA, which I had last year, that must mean I’m pampered. It doesn’t even sound like you understood what I said. I suggest you re read it…

        • Paul

          If they have to impose $4000 deductibles, it’s already a financial mess.
          Let’s just bring back California Covered. It worked great AFAIK.

          • optikool

            Well Republicans did say, they are increasing the deductibles, so yeah it’s going to be pretty messed up for people that can’t afford it, because they are getting rid of the subsidies along with it. I had CoveredCA for 5 years, was a contractor, until they sent me a letter last year telling me I had to get insurance through my Full-time Employer. I was happy with it when I had it, because when I was in between contracting jobs the premiums adjusted down and then adjusted back up when I started working again. Didn’t have to worry about not having insurance. With the Republican plan, that all goes away…

  • Kevin Skipper

    Friends, citizens, brothers. The wait is over. After much delay, I give you this replacement for the disaster that is Obamacare.

    Without further ado, I present the ACA! Don’t be fooled by imitations. This is the original, patented Affordable Care ActION. By this we meant that is has everything that the Affordable Care ACT did but this time we added ions. Act-ions to be exact.

    • chriswinter

      Well done! In my mind, I hear Scotty reverentially intoning, “Ion power!” whereupon Leonard “Bones” McCoy retorts, “In a pig’s eye!”

      But then I’m a Star Trek nerd…

      • Kevin Skipper

        “Ah cahnt hyold her togyether Cyaptain!” -Chekov

  • geraldfnord

    I have heard the claim that the revision allows companies to offer ‘insurance’ polucies that consist of an envelope containg six aspirin and a cheerful message, and since Mr Trump reached the office of the Presidency using the ‘people are saying’ standard of truth, that must be true.

    • Curious

      I have heard the claim that if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. I have heard the claim that if you like your insurance, you can keep your insurance. Oh, wait. Those were just 2 of Obama’s myriad lies.

  • Ben Rawner

    What are the structural differences that have changed from 50 years ago when 90% of people had healthcare. Why can’t we go back to that system?

    • geraldfnord

      Well, for two things, there are much fewer union members and much more we can do for people.

  • Noelle

    per-capita caps for Medicaid=high deductibles,high premiums and probably more bankruptcies due to high medical bills.

    • Kevin Skipper

      Seems like across the board, that’s the real goal.

      • Noelle

        yep, get rid of your fancy smart phone and save your money to pay for your health insurance, as some congressman recently said.

        • Chris1030

          Jason Chaffetz gets big bucks from entities like GasProm, So it’s not surprising he has little clue about healthcare costs, that they are not anywhere equivalent to the price of iPhone, plus he probably has no clue those are monthly. And this is if you don’t get sick and need actual healthcare.

          • Noelle

            not to mention, congressmembers have a nice health plan.

        • Kevin Skipper

          Consolidated tech/media interests say otherwise. Like shopping and most jobs, app-based remedies and integrated consultation/diagnosis render patients’ connection to the cloud de rigueur.

  • Noelle

    health savings accounts=high deductibles for most ordinary Americans, tax shelters for the rich

    • Bill_Woods

      High deductibles — as high as you can stand — is the way to go for insurance policies.
      I.e. insure against catastrophes, self-insure against run-of-the-mill expenses.

  • Kevin Skipper

    On the abortion topic: Seeing as race-relations, policing and education are states rights issues, is it really a surprise that abortion aka population control would be as well. Different states have different concerns regarding their respective role in creating and maintaining their own racially “compatible” citizen base. I imagine that abortion is a priority in Oakland, Baltimore, DC and Chicago in a way that is is not a concern in Topeka, Des Moines, Austin or Seattle.

    • Noelle

      they pretend to care about women and children but all they care about is big business.

      • Kevin Skipper

        To population managers, women and subsequently children ARE the big business. Been the case from feudalism to slavery to democracy and back again.

        • Noelle

          …creating the surplus army of the unemployed…

          • William – SF

            …and under-employed…

  • 1PeterDuMont2STARALLIANCE8

    “Getting rid of the individual mandate” sounds like a really bad idea, unhealthy to the whole of society.

    By removing any form of collective compulsion that requires citizens to “do the right thing” and get coverage, we would be removing the element of responsibility from freedom; in essence, encouraging gambling. There will be winners and losers, and the healthy fabric of society will be compromised.

    Without corresponding responsibilities, freedoms are unsustainable.

    • Robin Van Vliet

      They have replaced this tax with a different mechanism. If you have a gap of coverage over 63 days, when you enroll again you will pay the insurance company (not the IRS) an additional 30% premium. So you can buy a catastrophic plan at a 30% price hike. If you were pretty healthy, would you buy it or just take the chance until the next open enrollment?

  • Robert Thomas

    As recently as 2007, Republican law makers were satisfied that the families of people who were unemployed or whose employers would not offer them health insurance could just bankrupt themselves when if they fell ill or else die in the gutter, as Jesus intended.

    Now, many Republicans are suffering from disorientation, observing that their leaders are weirdly attempting to insist that instead of immediately dying in the gutter, that stupid, distastefully poor people SHOULD get SOME (more expensive, poor quality) health insurance rather than the sufficiently LITTLE for them to expire quickly enough to efficiently decrease the surplus population. Many members of the Republican caucus are mortified!

    I think the rest of us must wait for the House Republicans to decide amongst themselves just how quickly they want sick people to die, before deciding for ourselves just what we think about their proposed method of extermination.

    • William – SF

      Finally – we’ll get the death panels we’ve been promised!

      • Noelle

        LOL!

    • Kevin Skipper

      The new ‘Untouchable’ Caste. Perhaps we’ve learned more from India that we’re ready to admit.

  • Noelle

    so the people who didn’t like the high insurance rates for ACA will get these tax rebates? Will that really cover the gap?

  • shariwashburn

    My 26 year old daughter has an auto-immune disorder that requires an expensive monthly treatment so can’t opt out of insurance. She currently pays $63/month for her healthcare, thanks to Obamacare subsidies. Under Trumpcare, her premium will increase 410%. As a part-time student making minimum wage, she won’t be able to afford this increase but can not live a healthy life without her treatment.

    • William – SF

      See Robert Thomas comment below.
      Shame on Trump Care(less)

    • Curious

      Why should I be supporting your daughter?

  • Liz

    Access to health insurance doesn’t mean being able to afford said health insurance. One does not equal the other.

  • Robin Van Vliet

    Question for Grace: If a healthy person is facing a 30% premium penalty to get insurance, won’t they just continue to opt out and take the risk? But if they’ve got a concern about a diagnosis, then they’ll opt in and probably buy a much richer plan to “get their money’s worth”? Won’t that further a death spiral in premiums? Yes, this is a bigger stick than the prior individual mandate, and the money is going straight to the insurer instead of being filtered through CMS. But it could backfire.

  • pm05

    This mess really all comes down to the Republicans refusing to work with the Democrats in the first place! If they all would have worked on the ACA in the beginning, we all would have benefited.

    Republicans refused to do anything; spent years whining instead of creating a new plan (they had 6-7 years); and now have this absolute mess. People are going to lose their health care, their health, their lives.
    This is all on the Republicans!

    • Bill_Woods

      No Republicans have their fingerprints on the Abominable Care Act.

    • Curious

      Obama refused to even speak to Republicans before illegally ramming through Obamacare.

      • pastramiboy

        umm i don’t believe it was illegal-it has withstood every court challenge thrown at it. You may not like it, but it was perfectly legal.

  • Jeff Bokor

    In the ACA, the individual mandate was needed in order to get the insurance companies to agree to cover pre-existing conditions and keep children under 26 on parent’s policy. The Republican plan keeps pre-existing conditions and child coverage. Won’t this cause premiums to skyrocket?

  • Love2Ride2

    The Republican health care plan remains unchanged:
    1) Don’t get sick.
    2) If you do, die quickly

    The most effective cost savings we could EVER realize is enacting Single Payer and tossing the private insurance industry to the curb. One TRILLION bucks down the drain supporting the for profit insurance industry.

  • lesizz

    So far this discussion is a charade.
    Instead of repealing Obamacare, the problems in it could be fixed.
    The very basic reason the Republicans want to repeal Obamacare is that it was instituted by a man who was guilty of being president while black.

    • Love2Ride2

      And don’t forget the tax cuts at the top. Remember, following the money is usually the most revealing course of action.

    • Kevin Skipper

      Actually, he was President while bi-racial foreign-born pro-same-sex-rights immigrant with not a day of experience living even an iota of the ‘Black American Experience.’ He’s a placebo for a nation that will never really accept equality in any form. The system will die as it lived, as a slavedriver. Nothing more. Nothing less.

    • Curious

      No. Obamacare is in its death throes. It was an unmitigated disaster from day one – just like its namesake.

  • Love2Ride2

    Richard Wolff makes it clear the aim of Obamacare repeal: to give a tax cut for the wealthy.

    Someone earning something like $3.8 M per year saves $190k in taxes. Repealing Obamacare is just a payback for those underwriting the Trump campaign. That’s all it is.

    • Noelle

      American Hospital Association didn’t give him enough $, insurance companies gave him more?

    • William – SF

      And it benefits the wealthy that own/run businesses by eliminating the requirement for health coverage to employees.

  • Robin Van Vliet

    I’m curious why they want to remove the cap on CEO wages on insurance providers. Obamacare capped it at $500k

    • William – SF

      Because it’s easier to move from the 1% to the 0.75%.

  • Livegreen

    Public health experts reported earlier this year that repeal of the ACA could kill up to 43,000 people. What are the updated impacts of the new law on how many people will lose insurance and thus die?

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-obamacare-repeal-lose-health-insurance-deaths-20170123-story.html

  • Love2Ride2

    How is someone earning $25k per year going to survive paying $12,000 in health care premiums with a max subsidy of $4k?

    Answer: they won’t!

    Credits, vouchers, whatever simply shift costs onto the consumer. And when costs go through the roof, you get to lose you house, declare bankruptcy and die quietly.

    But aren’t we glad the Ferraris will still sell well!

    • Noelle

      yeah, the employer-based health insurance coverage has been cost shifting to the employees big time!

      • William – SF

        Just like retirement plans.

  • Noelle

    I’m one of the people who works in the hospital industry, I code the medical records so the hospital can get paid by Medicare,Medicaid and insurance companies. Many of the records are Medicaid so if this passes, my job prospects will not be great. Oh well.

    • Kevin Skipper

      Switch to accounting and cook up those books. I hear it’s a decent racket.

  • Fay Nissenbaum

    When I was an office manager, I bought insurance for small businesses. In
    1994-1995, suddenly insurance rates to cover small businesses TRIPLED without notice.

    Even working with insurance brokers, finding a reasonable rate for a group of fewer than 20 employees was onerous! It was clear that the insurance giants all decided that year to triple rates. What in the new proposals examines insurance rates to prevent collusion and conspiracy in rate setting?

    Individuals face the same problem of being at the mercy of the insurance giants. Would a rate commission to examine rates be
    advisable? There is no free market at all – just a demand that we buy what is essentially the ‘least tainted meat’. We need ‘inspectors’ for insurance rates!

    ~Fay~
    The City

  • Mick Mann

    Why can’t this country do what other countries do and provide universal health care?? Oh sorry I forgot the jerks in Washington would never want to make it so the RICH who have way too much money would have to pay to take care of the poorer people in this country.

    • Curious

      You mean double tax rates and make everyone pay tax – not just 40%? You mean deport all illegals? I agree. Why can’t we?

    • turquoisewaters

      The greed of the 1% has no limits.
      They sell it as “freedom”, even if it is freedom from even the most basic financial and personal security.

  • Liz

    More choice means what? Since there are going to be no basic standards for what a policy must have what kind of policies will we have to choose from? Choice doesn’t equal quality. Quantity does not equal quality.

  • Robert Thomas

    Apparently, no longer having to bear the burden of ever looking at his own daughter again …

    “My wife, Julie and I, we have a fifteen-year-old daughter. Do you think I can look her in the eye and tell her that I endorsed Donald Trump for president when he acts like this and his apology? That was no apology, that was an apology for getting caught … So I’m not going to put my good name and reputation and my family behind Donald Trump when he acts like this, I just can’t do it.”

    Rep. Jason Chaffetz, Utah
    To CNN’s Don Lemon, October 2016

    … has not relieved his office from the onus of receiving pleading calls from destitute sick people minimally equipped with a pesky cell phone.

    • William – SF

      Cell phones are a luxury, I hear/read. Getting rid of cell phones would aid in relieving his office of this onus…. hmmm…

      • Robert Thomas

        Clearly, we can provide better health care by heavily taxing cheap cell phones.

        • William – SF

          Just as long as we don’t tax the integrity of Jason Chaffetz, clearly.

  • vfran

    I was horrified by the comments of the panel on Forum today. One said that Medi-Cal recipients regularly commit fraud. The other panelist said Medicaid was covering people who could get coverage elsewhere. I work in health care and talk to people every day who did not have healthcare until the ACA. People with chronic pain who sometimes can’t work. People with chronic disabilities who are younger who Medi-Cal used to make them wait or go elsewhere but who now have coverage. I don’t know what these people are talking about -and NO facts to back them up!!! Also – low income and poor people don’t file for taxes so how is a tax break going to help them? How is a tax break going to help the chronically ill who have huge medical bills?????

    • Love2Ride2

      It’s just part of the right wing playbook. Reagan did this in the 80’s when he went after “rampant welfare fraud” that didn’t exist. All the while he opened the checkbook and bankrupted the government on military spending.

      Just typical hypocrisy. Better to build bombs than keep Americans healthy.

      • Noelle

        yep, people born in the 1980s and after don’t remember Reagan’s schemes.

      • Mick Mann

        Have to spend 10 to 20 times more on our military than any other country, rather than take care of our citizens. Might makes right!! RIGHT?

    • Noelle

      It’s not.

  • Fay Nissenbaum

    The guest named Turner is pushing *platitudes* about innovation and free markets. That’s an invitation to screw us without oversight!
    The US does not have a free markets. Pulitzer-Prize winning journalist David Cay Johnston has proven that again and again.

    • Mick Mann

      There is no free market in health care when the companies collude to keep prices high.

    • Love2Ride2

      The free market brought us all sorts of wonderful things like the Crash of ’08!

      David Cay Johnston is a national hero.

      Just his story about the city of Felton’s water system and what happened when a private conglomerate got control is all you need to know about how the “free market” approaches essential public services.

    • Noelle
  • Love2Ride2

    We can talk about this until we’re blue in the face. It’s all a complete waste of time as long as the moneyed interests keep getting fed at the trough.

    Until we enact Single Payer, we’re flushing ONE TRILLION DOLLARS down the toilet on health care.

  • trite

    Please talk about the generous health care packages that members of congress have.

    • Curious

      Government employees. It’s a scam.

  • Fay Nissenbaum

    How are unregulated insurance companies any different from the big pharma company that decided to raise the price of the Epipen a hundred fold? Where is the examination of reasonableness of rates charged the consumer?
    (Michael, you need to muzzle Grace Turner – she is a platitude-spewing bee-ess artist)

  • Chris1030

    Michael. don’t allow Turner to lie on the national radio!

  • Fay Nissenbaum

    Dr Michael Krasny, you phoned this show in — very disappointed in your lack of challenge to grace turner. Guests who make generalizations and vapid platitudes should be cross-examined like the liars they are.

  • Curious

    Obama left such an unholy mess. It will take time to recover.

  • Curious

    This was an Obama lie from day one. What an unprecedented disaster Obama was.

  • turquoisewaters

    The glee with which the GOP is cutting off poor people’s lifeline in order to get a tax cut for the rich is obscene.

  • JMS

    I just listened to the podcast. Here’s what I heard:

    Grace -Marie Turner talked of hypotheticals and how everything was going to work out great because all the good senators and congressmen had everyone’s best interest in mind (despite he fact that the plan was essentially formulated behind closed doors and will be rammed through, and despite the fact that AARP, and many hospitals and physicians groups have come out in opposition.)

    The other guests, Jacob Hacker and Carrie Feibel, cited facts and scenarios that made things not so certain.

    That’s what’s (and what has been) so insidious about the republican agenda since Reagan. Feed the people pablum, make them feel good (get the government off their backs) while ignoring the basic facts, they get their way, and their constituents never realize they’ve been had. Add the current administration, and the Ayn Rand styling a of Paul Ryan, and the trick gets multiplied.

    Just wait to see how his, the environment, the banking industry, and all else turns out!

Host

Michael Krasny

Michael Krasny, PhD, has been in broadcast journalism since 1983. He was with ABC in both radio and television and migrated to public broadcasting in 1993. He has been Professor of English at San Francisco State University and also taught at Stanford, the University of San Francisco and the University of California, as well as in the Fulbright International Institutes. A veteran interviewer for the nationally broadcast City Arts and Lectures, he is the author of a number of books, including “Off Mike: A Memoir of Talk Radio and Literary Life” (Stanford University Press) “Spiritual Envy” (New World); “Sound Ideas” (with M.E. Sokolik/ McGraw-Hill); “Let There Be Laughter” (Harper-Collins) as well as the twenty-four lecture series in DVD, audio and book, “Short Story Masterpieces” (The Teaching Company). He has interviewed many of the world’s leading political, cultural, literary, science and technology figures, as well as major figures from the world of entertainment. He is the recipient of many awards and honors including the S.Y. Agnon Medal for Intellectual Achievement; The Eugene Block Award for Human Rights Journalism; the James Madison Freedom of Information Award; the Excellence in Journalism Award from the National Lesbian and Gay Journalists Association; Career Achievement Award from the Society of Professional Journalists and an award from the Radio and Television News Directors Association. He holds a B.A. (cum laude) and M.A. from Ohio University and a PhD from the University of Wisconsin.

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