A sign directs migrants by nationality

Some European nations and politicians are calling for stronger border controls and smaller refugee quotas, following Friday’s terrorist attacks in Paris that left at least 129 dead. Already, France, Belgium and Italy have already enacted new border security measures, and some leaders are proposing suspension of the Schengen Agreement, which allows passport-free travel in the European Union. Meanwhile, governors of at least 27 U.S. states announced Monday they will refuse to accept Syrian refugees. We bring you the latest developments.

Guests:
Judy Dempsey, senior associate at Carnegie Europe and editor in chief of Strategic Europe
Gregory Maniatis, senior European policy fellow, Migration Policy Institute; a senior adviser to the United Nations
Victor Davis Hanson, senior fellow in classics and military history, Hoover Institution, Stanford University; nationally syndicated columnist for Tribune Media Services.
Paul Kirby, Europe editor, BBCNews.com

  • Reed

    Immigration in small numbers can be beneficial, bringing new ideas and needed genetic variety. In large numbers however, the immigrants see no need to assimilate, they fail to change beliefs and practices that may be very backward as is the case with honor killings, and they may even look down on the locals and abuse them. The mainstream media likes to paint anti-immigrant rhetoric as irrational, cynical or mean spirited. In reality it can be very rational and wise. Every country acts to protect its people and property from outsiders.

    • Kurt thialfad

      It’s all about the numbers.

    • Whamadoodle

      “And that’s why the millions of Jews from Europe should find no refuge here, Hitler’s abuse of them be damned, and the slogan on the Statue of Liberty be damned too.”

  • EIDALM

    Could this horrible bloody incident in Paris just another false flag operation ,just like that 1964 of the gulf of Tonkin ,or the 1967 intention sinking of the USS Liberty .and the 1954 operation Sussanah ,La Von Affair ,I ask that question because I want every one to think who benefits from Daesh barbaric bloody actions including that one in France ,the answer is surely not the Arabs or the Muslims ,in fact both groups are more than 99.99% of Daesh victims ,their countries are destroyed ,their people are murdered ,and falsely make it look like that all of the 1,5 billions Muslim across the world are violent terrorists as well putting bloody and violent face on the religion of Islam….I believe that the only ones that benefit from Daesh are the same people who for the last 40 being attacking Islam and Muslims ,invaded Iraq based in lies ,advanced and propagated the false claim of clash of civilization and Islamophobia ,it is the Israeli agents Neocons the U S military industrial complex and international arm traders as well as the right wing groups in the U S and Europe who are all now using this sorry incident in France to stop the mass immigration to their countries including the Republicans in the U S and the right wing hateful groups in Europe….Those are the ones who are now delighted and benefit from the barbarian bloody incident in France…..I really believe while Daesh followers are bunch of misled low I.Q. stupid idiots who no thing of Islam pillars and rules ,but I strongly believe that Daesh leaders are paid agents for Israel ,the American military complex….Case of point the destruction of the Russian airplane in Egypt which will cause lots of damage to the Egyptian tourism and millions of Egyptians who make their living from that.,add to that the so many failed countries in the middle east whose demise was done by Daesh incLuding Syria ,Libya ,and others…..I find that the timing of this incident in France more than a coincident with hate and anti immigration sentiment by the current Republican candidates and the right wing groups in Europe .

    • Skip Conrad

      Why would a terrorist be carrying a passport that could identify himself? Only that he wants his posthumus identity known to authorities. Otherwise, it has been planted. A false flag.

      • halberst

        Where would he put his passport otherwise? He might need it right up to the moment he commits his terrorist act. Imagine if he’d been pulled over for speeding along the way and couldn’t produce ID. He’d be detained and have his car searched. Passports are required to do all sorts of things in Europe, even register for a hotel or get a cell phone.

    • Zohar

      You think Isis is a Jewish conspiracy? You are obviously as racist as you are ignorant.

      • EIDALM

        I did not say that .

    • Zohar

      Oh, I just read the your comments on previous episodes, you are a racist paranoid moron. Nothing like an open forum to bring out the wingnuts!

      • EIDALM

        Ignorance is blessing

  • Skip Conrad

    It is odd to hear Trump demonized for supporting building a wall, when this was specified by the Secure Fence Act of 2005, That wall was never built, yet DHS and our government lied to us and told us our border is secure.
    So instead of getting what was demanded by law, we got alot of BS.
    You can have the best tools to do a job, but when there is no will to follow through by our leaders, nothing gets done. Why are not our leaders following the expressed will of the people? Because we are not a denocracy.

    • Gene Keenan

      We can’t even stop the flow of drugs into this country via tunnels and you think a wall is going to secure the border?

      • Skip Conrad

        True, a wall is not going to secure the border, without the removal of sanctuary and other subverting enforcement policies.

        • Whamadoodle

          Or with the removal of sanctuary and other enforcement policies. Fixed it for you!

          Because you know, 15 million people, or even half that, being impossible to cleanse your country of and all, even for the most vicious and efficient police states the world has ever known.

          • Skip Conrad

            Not enforcement policies, but rather policies which subvert and undermine enforcement.
            I would think that the goal is to reduce the number of people present in violation of the law, to a more acceptable level. Say, from 20 million to half a million.
            Just like the death penalty does not eliminate murders, it only reduces the murder rate.

          • Whamadoodle

            Yeah, for me, the goal is to remove the idiotic insistence on making criminals out of 20 million people 98% of whom otherwise break no laws whatsoever, because obviously, that means 98% of the 20 million people aren’t willing criminals–they’re being forced into it by their desperate circumstances, which all you people gloating over their suffering close your eyes to.

            Anne Frank died after the US refused her application for a visa. My father, a Jew at the same time, was only granted a visa on condition he not look for work. He lied and promised never to get a job here, which makes him a “criminal” in your book. Well, you’re being ridiculous. If he hadn’t fudged his document, he’d have died at the hands of the Nazis like Anne Frank did. You just ignore the fact that you want to send these people into a war zone.

            Why, may I ask, if you people are being truthful when you claim “we’re fine with LEGAL immigrants, just not ILLEGAL ones,” then why are you so insistent that we must never, ever raise the quota so that 20 million refugees from war and poverty don’t HAVE to become illegal immigrants?

  • Kurt thialfad

    All immigration programs are restricted and limited by definition. We all belive in restricted immigration, or no immigration at all. Who are these immigration restrictionists then? Everybody.
    It’s all about the numbers.

    • Whamadoodle

      Um–no… I don’t believe in restricted immigration, thanks very much. Who do you think you are, claiming “we all” believe as you do? I don’t.

      I happen to wonder, with all the high-handed moralizing about “only people who follow the legal process to become immigrants should be allowed immigration status; people without papers shouldn’t,” well then, may I ask why we don’t raise the limit on the number of people we let in, so that we’re letting in as many people as want to come, provided they have no violent crime in their past? And if we do, will all the “immigrants are fine, just ILLEGAL ones aren’t fine” people suddenly say “there you go! See, that’s just fine!”?

      Um–no, they won’t. They’ll lose their s— and freak out if we raise the limit, every last one of them will. Which is why the people claiming “immigrants are fine, it’s just ILLEGAL ones that aren’t fine” are simply lying. If they weren’t xenophobic, then what would be the harm in allowing more immigration?

      • Kurt thialfad

        “provided they have no violent crime in their past”.
        Sounds like a “restriction” to me.

        • Whamadoodle

          (eyeroll)
          OK, then yes, I want to restrict less than 2% of immigrants, then. Thanks for the correction. Got any hysteria to whip up for us about the remaining 98%? Thought so.

          And if we were talking about “how many are terrorists,” that’d be about 1 out of every 100,000.

  • jurgispilis

    Of course the ultimate stupidity is California’s recently passed into law AB622 which bans the use the use of eVerify.

    http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=201520160AB622

    “2814. (a) (1) Except as required by federal law or as a condition of receiving federal funds, it shall be unlawful for an employer, or any other person or entity to use the federal electronic employment verification system known as E-Verify…”

    Security begins at he border. We need that old follow-through, too.

  • Jon Latimer

    Is there really solid evidence to suggest that ANY of the attackers were in fact from Syria? I’ve checked the news headlines, and so far there is nothing, just a passport that French authorities say is highly suspect, yet somehow this information is ignored because the idea of a Syrian terrorist plays very well into the xenophobic narrative that many in both the international and US media are all too eager to amplify.

    • halberst

      I’m not sure that matters much. The underlying problem is that the migration into Europe is basically unchecked. So if a “holy warrior” wanted to enter Europe and make havoc, they could come from anywhere without papers and background checks. Or with potentially forged papers from Syria or another country receiving preferential immigration status that they may not actually have come from.

      • DigDug2k

        No, migration into Europe isn’t unchecked (go read an interview with any refugee), but yes, a terrorist might have forged papers? They also might just be an American/French/British national who got was lured into ISIS by threats against their family, or the promise of food and a bed? 100% security isn’t possible. Are you suggesting that we shutdown all immigration until we have 100% full proof ways to ensure a terrorist could never sneak through?

        This is all so reminiscent of the moronic Ebola scares from last year.

        • halberst

          I’m suggesting that we should shut down all immigration through informal means. People wishing to enter Europe should do so at custom and immigration points only. Not from friendly safe countries on hired rafts or other means from countries that aren’t in a “hot” war. Europe should be taking in refugees, but should be processing them based on criteria it decides.

    • Jon Latimer

      The connection between the attacks and the refugee crisis is at best circumstantial, and at worst a manufactured narrative; and excuse to continue to ignore the plight of refugees.

    • Bill_Woods

      PARIS — Fingerprints from one of the suicide bombers behind the attacks at the Stade de France in Paris matched the prints of a man registered in Greece in October, a French prosecutor said on Monday.
      “At this stage, while the authenticity of a passport in the name of Ahmad al Mohammad, born Sept. 10 1990 in Idlib, Syria needs to be verified, there are similarities between the fingerprints of the suicide bomber and those taken during a control in Greece in October,” the Paris prosecutor said in a statement.

      http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2015/11/16/business/16reuters-france-shooting-bomber-greece.html?_r=0

  • halberst

    I’d like to hear why can’t Europe allow for more orderly immigration? In the context of the Syrian refugee crisis, virtually all those crossing into Schengen are coming by land. By definition they are entering from a country that’s not at war and they are not in immediate danger in Jordan, Lebanon, or Turkey. Why doesn’t Germany accept all those 1m migrants directly from safe countries in an orderly way? Germany and Europe could favor those who apply for visas in their embassies in the closest safe countries and not grant status to those who jump the que…. or? Then we wouldn’t see so many kids dying on life rafts and the ugly xenophobia of Hungry creep its head up further.

  • Ben Rawner

    Most of the attackers in Paris were French born. This reaction is xenophobic. These migrants are fleeing the terror. My question is how do the European powers plan to actually defeat ISIS without putting boots on the ground.?

    • Jon Latimer

      Agree. The connection between the attacks and the refugee crisis is at best circumstantial, and at worst a manufactured narrative; and excuse to continue to ignore the plight of refugees.

  • Kurt thialfad

    Gregory stated that none of the 750,000 refugees settled in the US after 9/11 was arrested on domestic terrrorist acts.
    However, Boston marathon bomber Dhzokhar Tsarnaev arrived in the U.S in April 2002, and applied for political asylum with his family.
    Perhaps, there is a difference between refugee and asylum seeker?

  • Another Mike

    Republican politicians are cowardly. They are ready to send any number of young Americans to be “boots on the ground” to fight ISIS, yet cannot tolerate the slightest possibility that their own lives might be affected. This is of a pattern with their refusal to allow Gitmo detainees on to the mainland, even in the most secure of Supermax prisons.

    • Noelle

      Agreed. Our supermax prisons are fine for Gitmo detainees(at least for the ones who should be there–still are those who have been cleared for YEARS and languish there). Not sure why so many politicians have become such weenies when it comes to bringing detainees on American soil

  • Daniella Farahani

    While the majority of the terrorists in Paris where French citizens why are we not discussing the problem of the radicalization of western youths. As one of your guests mentioned the refugees are being made scapegoats and must suffer the dire consequences. The world and especially the US is once again making the same tragic mistake as it did in the 1930-40’s. 6 Million jews died in the holocaust while immigration was denied!

    • halberst

      Where the present situation differs is that during the Holocaust there was no Jewish state. Jews were a targeted minority spread out over Europe, North Africa and the Middle East, and nowhere a majority.

      There is some irony that there is so much insistence that Europe and the west *must* take on migrants and refugees that are almost entirely Muslim. At the same time refugees are being shunned and shunning those cultures closest to their own fighting their way to a quasi secular Christian corner of the world. Unlike the situation for Jews targeted by a Christian majority in WWii, Syrians have the choice of dozens of Muslim majority and/or official Islamic states to go to. And many of the richest countries that share their background have taken in virtually zero!

      Previous waves of Muslim immigrants to Europe are still having trouble assimilating. It’s from that group that many of the terror attacks recently came. I don’t mean to say that Europe or the west shouldn’t take in any migrants or refugees. But I do think it reasonable that those not directly fleeing a war zone be required to submit to scrutiny of the country they wish to be hosted by. And I think also that it would not be unreasonable to consider how well those with the same background have assimilated previously.

      Some in the US are xenophobic, like those governors calling for only Christians. On the other hand, I think that targeted religious minorities should get to the front of the line. In the ME that would mean Christians, Yazidis, and the tiny handful of Jews. Elsewhere that policy would favor Muslims from Myanmar.

  • Noelle

    Did I hear Dr. Hanson say the UC Merced killer was jihadist? All I’ve heard is that he was a typical anti-social young man who lashes out in our schools and communities

    • And he said there were 50 terrorist attacks since 911. Name 5 and anthrax doesnt count

  • Gene Keenan

    The terrorists are winning. If we close our borders to Syrian refugees we have conceded defeat.

    Based on all the school shootings and more I’d say we already have a sizable terrorist problem in this country. It’s time we start calling a spade a spade.

    “1. The use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes.
    2. The state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization.”

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/terrorism

  • Another Mike

    Not sure what Mr. Hanson is talking about — illegal immigrants lured here to provide cheap labor to largely Republican employers — has to do with people fleeing a civil war.

  • Ponchyan

    Just as Americans have accepted that the price of freedom is the real but remote possibility that they might be gunned down in their church or school, perhaps the French must accept that they might be gunned down in their cafes and concert halls. I see no way to stop this without stripping all citizens of their civil rights and destroying the culture we wish to save.

  • Gene Keenan

    According to Fact Check it is 51% women and children not the 75% male figure being touted. Conservative sites are manipulating the numbers.

    http://www.factcheck.org/2015/09/stretching-facts-on-syrian-refugees/

  • Another Mike

    In the 1920s, anti-immigrant Republicans set strict quotas on “less-desirable” immigrants — including Eastern Europeans with their large Jewish populations.

    • Kurt thialfad

      There is also the horror of the labor exploitation aspect, as popularized by Upton Sinclair’s “The Jungle”, published in 1906.

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