(THOMAS COEX/AFP/Getty Images)

The most recent Israeli offensive in Gaza begins its eighth day on Tuesday, marked by escalating rhetoric and violence on both sides despite international pleas for peace. According to Palestinian officials, over 175 people have been killed in Gaza, most of them civilians. Meanwhile, Israel says close to 1,000 rockets have been fired from Gaza. Now, Egypt is proposing a ceasefire to start Tuesday morning. We’ll discuss the latest developments in the ongoing conflict.

Guests:
Robert Danin, senior fellow for Middle East and Africa studies at the Council on Foreign Relations
Nicolas Pelham, correspondent for The Economist and author of "A New Muslim Order"
Janine Zacharia, visiting lecturer at Stanford University and former Jerusalem bureau chief and Middle East correspondent for the Washington Post
Nawal Assad, BBC correspondent

  • Chris OConnell

    Chairs and popcorn to watch the “fireworks” in Gaza. Cheers erupt when bombs strike.

    http://tinyurl.com/nlnqe3s

    • thucy

      I would never condone such behavior, but I don’t know that this is necessarily different from the Americans who cheered over their Doritos as our government “seized” Baghdad amid considerable bombing and civilian deaths.
      Or… maybe it is different. Maybe a young generation of Israelis, growing up in a rapidly disintegrating middle east, have slightly more reason to “take comfort” (however misguidedly) in a retaliatory mission, than a bunch of Americans whose primary experience of the middle east is, well, nada.
      I’m neither Jewish nor Israeli, however, it alarms me when we as Americans hold Israelis to a higher standard than we hold our fellow US citizens.

      • ES Trader

        that is a good observation, cant believe all the anti-Semitic attitude in Bay Area

        • Another Mike

          In the Bay Area, the people that I know who are most appalled by how Israel treats its neighbors are all Jewish.

          • thucy

            As it is in New York. And In Israel, there are plenty of people serving in the military who are completely appalled by how Palestinians are treated. Most Americans don’t imagine that Israelis, like Jews or Turks or French, have differing opinions.

        • Chris OConnell

          I like how you equate criticism of Israel with anti-Semitism. That’s a dangerous road to go down.

          • ES Trader

            If you are American, enjoying life in the Bay Area, its the only road to go down because the alternative of a chaotic world ruled by terrorists would be a quantum leap back into the Middle Ages.

            I recommend watching post-Apolcalyptic movies on lessons for survival

    • Frank

      Israelis watching murder from a distance and cheering. We’ve seen that one before on 9/11:

  • ES Trader

    Why does every PLO, Hamas, Hezbollah, representative, remind me of the primary school bully or prima-donna jock that protests his innocence when caught. A Hamas “information officer” on Morning Edition sounded just like all the others that preceded him for the last too many decades.

    No rational person believes that Israel is completely innocent but those that make claims about Israeli,U.S. media, and government are in collusion to mis-inform us are the same as those claiming that Apollo 11 was a Hollywood back lot production.

    Imagine what Hamas would do to Israel if military technology was superior to Israel, the disguise would vanish and their true motives would be boasted with no end.

    The true motive of its leaders is power for themselves and have no regard for the welfare of its people, to be oppressed and used as pawns or human shields.

    • Chris OConnell

      Regarding your question at the beginning, I think it is because you are close-minded and racist.

    • Mary Malone

      QUOTING ES Scalper: “Imagine what Hamas would do to Israel if military technology was
      superior to Israel, the disguise would vanish and their true motives
      would be boasted with no end.”

      Would it bother you if they did to Israel what Israel has been doing to them for decades? Or is that kind of bullying and slaughter only okay for the Israelis to do against Palestinians?

      • ES Trader

        You conveniently ignore Hamas’ charter. Israel has the capability to wipe Gaza off the map but don’t. There are over 1.5 million Palestinians living in Israel with the same rights as Israelis

        Israel wants peace not genocide. Things can be better, yes, but not when they vow killing..

  • Guest

    Israelis are so casual with their violence, whether bombing Palestinians, running over activists with tanks, or whatever. It now appears that rightwing Israelis may have even helped perpetrate 9/11:

    9/11 Pentagon Attack – Behind the Smoke Curtain – Barbara Honegger

    Beware! This video may require that you think for yourself, which is verboten in America.

    • GW

      Probably not a great idea to finger the isrealis- just because of the perception created. BUT THE PERCEPTION CREATED BY KNOCKING 3 BUILDINGS DOWN WITH 2 PLANES. Now that is probably something real journalists should look at.. hint hint – you’re already listening to the media bias.

    • ES Trader

      were they involved in JFK assassination too?

      • Guest

        No, that was the CIA.

        • ES Trader

          Right forgot, they were the ones that staged the moon landig and walk in ’69 or were they the killers of Nicole Simpson, damn its confusing

  • colinvgallagher

    According to the UN, 75% of the Gaza residents who are being killed by the Israeli air strikes are civilians. How does bombing a center for the disabled and killing scores of women and children constitute self-defense? Why should Israel get a free pass for actions that if committed by any other country would cause sanctions to be imposed?

    • thucy

      Collin,
      Let me know when they impose sanctions on the US for its indiscriminate murder of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis.

    • sam1am

      Colinvg- when placing rockets launchers next to tis facility it is self defense, unless you agree that Hamas is entitled to locate its rocket batteries everywhere, and Israel can ONLY HITS THOSE IN A FICTIONAL ARMY BASE…. go hug you teddybear and leave this discussion for thinking group ups.

    • Mary Malone

      QUOTNG COLINVGALLAGHER: “How does bombing a center for the disabled and killing scores of women and children constitute self-defense?”

      Perhaps under the “easy pickins” doctrine.

  • Sean Dennehy

    I’m getting real sick of Palestinian civilians getting killed, injured,or becoming dispossessed by Israeli airstrikes. Yes, HAMAS rocket attacks are wrong, but will the western world not hold Israel accountable for the high percentage of civilian deaths from Israeli airstrikes? According to the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs 77% of Palestinian deaths are civilians.

    • ES Trader

      Israel has superior weapons, thus more casualties, which are principally the use of the mobile rocket launchers that Hamas locates near civilians. Its more Hamas’ blame of the civilian casualties.

      Israel warns with a “roof knock” before the main attack. Hamas actually wants high casualties for PR purposes

      • Sean Dennehy

        The “roof knock” still destroys people’s homes making them dispossessed as I noted in my original comment. Over 1000 Palestinians have lost their homes.

        • ES Trader

          hope you have similar sentiment when mother nature decides to hit Bay Area with the Big One, when it happens w/out warning.

          I prefer a warning

        • sam1am

          SeanD- here you go again bumbling mindlessly, grow up and think, not just use empty sentences.

          • Mary Malone

            Logical fallacy, argumentum ad hominem. Insulting an opposing commenter does not make you correct.

    • erictremont

      Hamas is totally responsible for any civilian deaths in Gaza. Hamas chooses to hide rockets and weapons in schools, hospitals, mosques, and homes, Israel tries very hard to avoid civilian casualties by providing advance warning of air attacks whenever possible.

      • Sean Dennehy

        Oh that’s great. Just blame your opponent for any civilians you kill. No one buys that.

        A 77% civilian death rate is obscene. If it was 10% that would be more understandable, but 77% shows that Israel is targeting civilians.

        • ES Trader

          get real, would you prefer Israel to cease and driven into the Mediterranean as Arabs have said…. try embracing these militants as friends when that happens and see if they reciprocate or just behead you

          • Mary Malone

            Another logical fallacy. There is no evidence that not having Israeli killing comprised of 77% civilians would mean Israel would cease and be “driven into the Mediterranean.” In addition, there are more options involved in the situation.

          • ES Trader

            OK like what UN? Hamas’ charter states that Israel is to be destroyed and all Jews should be killed.

        • sam1am

          Sean D — please answer honestly, if you can, IF THE NUMBER OF CASUALTIES WAS THE SAME OF BOTH SIDES, this war would be OK in your crooked mind?

          • Mary Malone

            Logical fallacy, Strawman Argument. SD in no way indicated that “if the number of casualties was the same of both sides, this war would be OK…”

            You made up that false statement then proceeded to “knock down the Strawman” by arguing against your own statement.

      • ES Trader

        Nice to see a rational comment;really tired of the rhetoric of Israeli oppression and American media bias

        • GW

          You’re term for the day Kiyoshi is Unknown Unknown, as you have no idea what biases you swallow. Most of us figured this out in 2003 but maybe you weren’t an adult then.

          • ES Trader

            ’03 was that when you got a student Visa to enter the U.S or when you adopted Islam ?

      • sam1am

        Erict- we’ll said

      • Joumana Jaser

        How the hell would you know that? Have you been? Israel has a million excuses for its indiscretion and bullying ways. It gets away with it because they have huge money ties with the US. They are never held accountable and are notorious for censoring media that is anti-Israel

        • Mary Malone

          Yowzer. 100% correct.

    • sam1am

      Sean D – take two aspirins, and call your brain to think when the fog clear off.

      • Mary Malone

        Logical fallacy, argumentum ad hominem.

  • Beth Grant DeRoos

    Hamas is known to hide weapons in schools, hospitals, mosques, as well as weapon launchers. One official in a video was even shown saying citizens should be willing to die. What kind of human would want to use innocent women, children, the elderly as shields? Israel is a sliver of land surrounded by those who want to wipe her off the face of the map. Are they supposed to sit and allow others to make this happen?

    • EIDALM

      Total lies,the facts speak for itself ,please don’t repeat this criminal propaganda of blaming the victim ,the fact is Israel have attacked and murdered all of it’s neighbors for the last 70 years ,in it’s current form The Garrison state of Israel will cease to exist as soon as it loses the blind criminal support of the U S .

      • ES Trader

        Losers always have excuses thats why they always lose

        • Mary Malone

          Cute saying but illogical.

          None of the points raised by EIDALM in the post to which you reply are “excuses.” Therefore, your premise is false, and your argument is invalid.

          • ES Trader

            Ever heard Einstein’s quote ,” insanity is doing the same thng over and over and expecting different results” ?

            thats why losers will remain losers, they wont identify the variables that produce failure, instead they find scapegoats

    • ES Trader

      thank their interpretation of Quran and the illiteracy and inability of critical thinking of its people

  • Another Mike

    Whatever happened to “an eye for an eye”? So far, as the Palestinian death toll inches towards 200, the Israeli death toll remains at zero.

    • Bill_Woods

      Not for lack of trying on Hamas’ part.

    • phil small

      It is zero true, but not because the Palestinians are not trying to make it as large as possible. We have a crime in this country called “attempted murder” and we send people to jail for it.

  • EIDALM

    The fact is that whole crisis was creates by Natanyahue because of his objection to the unity between the Abas government and Hamas as well to scape the pressure from secretary John Kerry regarding the settlements ,he exploited the killing of the Israeli kids as an excuse to criminally murder hundreds of of innocent Palestinians including children as collective punishment….

    • ES Trader

      hope you are neither the judge or jury member if I am ever facing a trial

      • Mary Malone

        On what basis do you make that comment? Surely, you are not planning on “murdering hundreds of innocent Palestinians including children.”

        • ES Trader

          Watch “Rashomon”, facts become victim to indivudual bias

  • EIDALM

    The fact is the ruling elite in Israel as well as their supporters in the U S do not want peace but rather more and more land ,but the fact is the time is not on the side of Israel because as soon as it loses the criminal blind support of the U S Israel well cease to exist in it’s current form.

  • EIDALM

    Please Google search ( THE WORST BRAND NAME IN THE WORLD ) the answer will be Israel ,that shows how bad Israel standing in the rest of the World.

    • ES Trader

      nope its COMCAST w/ Walmart a close second

  • falldierise

    Netanyahu could have told Israelis the truth: that the bombs from Gaza are militarily so unlikely to cause significant loss of life that it could be seen as politically and militarily irrelevant, given Israel’s missile shield.

  • Cody Landwehr

    The analogy that best fits this situation IMO is:

    A soldier has their boot on the neck of a man on the ground. The boot has been pressing on the neck for a long time, and it’s getting quite sore.

    Rather than solve the problem, many people, from all over the world, take 1 side, and either give weapons to the soldier, or to the man on the ground.

    No solution will occur until the boot is removed from the neck.

    • ES Trader

      If the “victim” stops the genocide rhetoric, maybe the boot should be lifted otherwise give the soldier another bullit

      • thucy

        “If the “victim” stops the genocide rhetoric, maybe the boot should be lifted otherwise give the soldier another bullit”

        Wow. That’s one hell of an ugly statement. I think the only reason the Palestinians haven’t had it unimaginably worse than they have had it is that the Israeli people as a whole are still restrained by a modicum of decency. I wish we could say that of our fellow Americans.

        • ES Trader

          Decency that was born from knowlege and education. Israel has a very high literacy rate and buy more books than any other people.

          Unlike illiterates that only know what they are told by its manipulative self-serving leaders

          • Mary Malone

            If the majority of media and other forms of education are biased, then it would be better off if the students were uneducated because they act from a position of false premises and beliefs.

          • ES Trader

            Right,a sectarian education in a Madrasa is definitely superior. ,

  • Peter

    Let’s not forget that despite its rhetoric, Israel actually wants Hamas in power in Gaza. As the Israeli director of military intelligence Amos Yadlin told the U.S. ambassador back in 2007: “Israel would be “happy” if Hamas took over Gaza because the IDF could then deal with Gaza as a hostile state.”*
    Note that this is exactly what has happened.
    *Source: https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/07TELAVIV1733_a.html

    • ES Trader

      Of course “W” would have been wise to also know the lesson of ” the enemy that you understand vs the enemy that you do not ” Saddam vs SIS

      • thucy

        I believe the expression is “the devil you know…”

        • ES Trader

          Thx but the wording was intentional, but like a joke if one requires an explanation… well hopefully you get the point

  • GW

    Settler Terrorism: Something you don’t hear a lot about since 1945…The children of Victims turning into Victimizers. T-minus five seconds until someone freaks out after hearing the truth…

  • Another Mike

    Dozens, perhaps hundreds of hitchhikers have been killed in America over the years, without benefit of Hamas. Could the boys simply been victims of ordinary sociopaths?

  • ES Trader

    the more complete Hamas statement regarding the kidnapping was,” no involvement by Hamas but kidnappers are HEROES”.

    isn’t that correct? Whereas Nethanyahu & Sharon expressed condolences to the family of the Palestinian teen that was murdered and the killers were apprehended !

    • GW

      omg, you’re so right. We said sorry for interning the Japanese too. So its all good. Kiyoshi for prez – just say your sorry when you collectively punish a whole group of people.

      • thucy

        We did more than “say sorry” to interned Japanese-Americans. We actually paid restitution. Cash. Funds started to come through as Japan re-emerged as a super-power, and bulwark against rising China.

        Meanwhile, black people are still waiting for that 40-acres-and-a-mule. Native tribes have had it even worse.

        • ES Trader

          $25,000, really a fair amount for having one’s Constitutional Right suspended and completey losing your business and home but dont worry I was not interred and not a recipient.

          Losers always have excuses and blame others which is why they perpetuate their condition

          The reason for the small number of Blacks in high tech businesses is because yjey dont study math and science in school.

          Sociology and Black Studies are not what Mark Zuckerberg, Tim Cook, Marissa Mayer, Elon Musk, Larry Page or Sergei Brin are looking for as employees.

          Employment in NBA, NFL, and MLB is very limited and guitar players are a dime a dozen

          It’s all a conspiracy, really!

          • thucy

            I think it was 20k, not 25k. A modest sum, however, formerly interned Japanese Americans had been winning lawsuits against the govt for lost property since the 1960s.
            The internment was a disgrace. Slavery was worse. Genocide of native tribes was even worse.

          • ES Trader

            well we agree on something but Im sure native Americans practiced the same ” might is right” tactics on each other.

            Humans have a long history of violence and cruelty on each other as well as other creatures and the environment because 99.9999% of human history is based on self-importance, egos and entitlement.

            Such is the result of not really knowing the insignificance of man’s role in the universe

          • Another Mike

            You mean Psych major Mark Zuckerberg would turn up his nose at a Sociology major? Why?

            And “The Science of Facebook” mostly brings up hits on “The Science of Facebook MARKETING, Facebook ENGAGEMENT, Facebook POSTS, etc.

            Further, I have known few coders with a grasp of math any more complex than what high school juniors are routinely taught.

          • ES Trader

            because he’s a successful billionaire and not an unemployed sociology major that adamantly turns his nose up at a job at Walmart or McDonalds; another words because he can

          • GW

            Love the jews, bigoted for the blacks. You’re a role model, expound on those huge ideas you have, and remove all doubt for us. Ignorance is not bliss

          • ES Trader

            You are simply one of the blind men trying to describe the elephant.

            Get over your creative writing classes and stop trying to fabricate your own conclusions from what I commented.

          • SeanInhanity

            Kiyoshi embodies this principle: “Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.”

  • Chris OConnell

    And on another note: Does anyone really doubt that Israel killed Arafat?

    • ES Trader

      If they did, it took too long

  • erictremont

    Sorry, this is NOT a balanced discussion, but it is quite typical of what appears on NPR when there are discussions of Israel. Endless cynical rationalizations for Palestinian terror, little acknowlegement of the terror felt by citizens of Israel.

    • ES Trader

      In particular Danine(?) final comment regarding the Mill Valley comment. Is Israel using people as shields ?

      Im glad Danine is not my dry cleaner trying to tell me my clothes are clean !

    • thucy

      I disagree. I thought it was refreshingly more balanced in its discussion than we have heard in a long time.
      I don’t think Israel has been well served by supporters who refuse to see the complexity and responsibilty seen by so many actual Israelis.

      • erictremont

        In this instance, it really isn’t all that complicated. Israel pulled out of Gaza in 2005 (an inconvenient fact that was all but ignored by the guests on today’s show), and not long afterwards Hamas responded by kidnapping Israelis and launching rocket attacks against Israel. What part of that is “complicated”?

        • thucy

          I think for a lot of Israelis, as for so many Americans, their own government’s activity is both wrong and counter-productive and out of their control.

        • Peter

          ” it really isn’t all that complicated. Israel pulled out of Gaza in 2005 (an inconvenient fact that was all but ignored by the guests on today’s show)”
          This was mentioned on the show. Israel pulled out its soldiers and its settlers, but it still controls the airspace, it controls sea access, and it controls all entry and exit except for the crossing with Egypt (which is for people only, not goods, which have to go through Israel). And Israel controls the population registry of the Gaza Strip. It’s still Israeli-occupied territory.

          It’s also not complicated that 70-80% of the people in Gaza are descended from people who used to live in what’s now Israel until 1947, and haven’t been allowed by successive Israeli governments to return to their homes. That important fact WAS ignored by the guests on today’s show.

          • erictremont

            Yes, Israel stills controls access to Gaza because it is essential for their self-defense. When Hamas stops smuggling rockets and weapons from Iran into Gaza and Hamas stops firing rockets at Israel, the restrictions can be lifted.

    • ES Trader

      erictremont.. So Palestinians are the true Semites ? What you either do not know or are ignoring that every human has the same origin, we are all related. We are the first rhetoric is BS used to justify selfish needs.

      But keep commenting so everyone can see what an idiot you are !

  • Adi Smulian

    This is not a simple situation guys.
    You need to remember that the reason we don’t have hundreds of dead Israelis is that while the Palestinians use civilians to protect their rockets while the Israelis use missiles to protect their civilians.
    No one is underplaying the suffering of the Palestinians but I want to see a political group within the Palestinian population that objects the Hamas and pushes for a non violent solution – the same as the Israeli peace oriented political parties.
    The reason there is non is because Hamas will quite simply kill those people as it had in fact done in the past.

    FREE GAZA FROM HAMAS!

    • Another Mike

      Your argument is that it is unfair of Palestinians not to have military bases from which to launch their rockets, using civilian buildings instead? And your solution to Israeli-Palestinian conflict is for Palestinians to establish their own futile and powerless peace-oriented groups?

    • Peter

      “I want to see a political group within the Palestinian population that objects the Hamas and pushes for a non violent solution”
      There are such groups.

      “the same as the Israeli peace oriented political parties”
      Name these parties you’re thinking of.

      “FREE GAZA FROM HAMAS! ”
      To whom is your command addressed? In other words, who are you asking to do the freeing?

      • ES Trader

        Palestinians are not all anti-Semites that want to exterminate israel, but are too few in number, probably the same % that can read and write and think for themselves

        • EIDALM

          Total idiocy

        • Mary Malone

          Insulting the victims doesn’t build a strong argument.

          • ES Trader

            facts are facts whether you accept them or not

    • EIDALM

      Bunch of garbage ,please don’t blame the victims ,what you saying is a repeat of the criminal propaganda machine…I will never blame jews for what Hitler did to them.

      • sam1am

        Eidlam– huh?

    • ES Trader

      your comments are too raional for anti-Semites to agree with

      • EIDALM

        The Palestinians are true Semites ,not Germans ,Russians ,or Polish

  • Chris OConnell

    Not a bad segment, and this topic is a land mine for anyone but especially public radio so well done. I think Ron Suskind (a Jew) would have brought more balance to the discussion (namely a principle critique of Israel and its settlement expansion). And needless to say, an Arab or Muslim is a perspective rarely heard.

    • thucy

      There definitely appears to be an evolution in how the Is.-Pal. situation is viewed by the media.

  • sam1am

    How mindless these journalists can get….. This battle is NOT A SPORT MATCH, THUS SCORING IT IS AS INANE AS SCORING THE IMPACT OF EARTHQUAKE BY THE NUBER OF FATALITIES….. From all media forums I thought that this panel will rise above the mundane silly of a basketball match! But alas Kqed took the Bay Area populist trend of leftist attitude that extol the empty slogan, useless comparison, and Campus induced Israel bashing. The bogus claim by so called journalist the Israel “knew form the start” that the three seminary students were dead, and just used that to arrest hundreds of Hamas operatives and launch the bombing campaign against Gaza, is true as some of the nutjobs claiming that the CIA was involved in the 9/11 explosions and as a pretext to invade Iraq and Afganistan….we’ll done Kqed, you join the annals of the banal yellow journalism!

    • GW

      Two cheers, for calling out the mindless. But lets be real, you call people nut jobs when they can add to three. I know i’m enetering a ‘no fact zone’ with the 9/11 debate thing. but really? 2 planes and 3 buildings and what happened to the last one again genius? Follow the money. Who’s the nut job now!

  • MattCA12

    I see no way for this conflict to ever end. Israel isn’t going away, and isn’t going to “give back” any of the land it has gained – whether through UN mandate in 1947 or as a result of subsequent wars. The Palestinians – or at least their Hamas proxies – will never cease their armed struggle. Both sides are interested in US participation only inasmuch as we sympathize with their goals, but any leadership we are able to provide to the “peace process” is naturally viewed with deep suspicion. I wonder why we continue trying.

  • ES Trader

    Hamas tells Palestinians to stay put at home; that Israeli warning flyers is propagandist plot to grab their homes if they leave !!!

    So. to all those Israel bashers…. WAKE UP and stop the BS about media, government conspiracies andwomen and children casualties !

    Hamas wants dead bodies to use as propaganda for your emotional and financial support.

    It’s all about staying in power for Hamas leaders, they care nothing about its illiterate people

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