Vegan blueberry cupcake

Going vegan can offer a range of challenges. Can you really get enough protein without meat and dairy? Can you really make eggless desserts that are anything more than a crumbly mess? Our guests say yes to both questions.

They join us to offer advice on how to prepare vegan meals that are healthy, hearty and don’t skimp on flavor.

Vegan Cooking 13 March,2012forum

Chloe Coscarelli, chef, author of the new cookbook "Chloe's Kitchen" and winner of Food Network's Cupcake Wars in 2010
Colleen Patrick-Goudreau, vegan chef, founder of Compassionate Cooks and author of books including "The Vegan Table" and "The 30-Day Vegan Challenge"

  • Anonymous

    So looking forward to this, I am really interested to learn more about the ways a vegan diet helps animals.

  • I am glad to see there is more discussions about the vegan lifestyle.  I have been a vegan since 2009, and it has been the best decision in my life.  Your two guests are cooking experts in cooking vegan.  Mrs. Goudreau is a wonderful speaker.  I hope you expand on this subject and interview more vegans about their lifestyle.  Maybe you can get bodybuilder @Robert Cheeke and author @Rory Freedman for a later episode.  

    • Charlesmidkiff3

       I grew up in the part of VA that was filled with hunters and country people (and I’m not a hunter), and my only point is that is what’s on the menu.
      Maybe these days you don’t need to base your diet on what you can kill. We don’t all live in the Bay Area.  I do still love Pho (made with oxtail broth).

      • Charles, I do not live in the Bay Area either.  I live in Arizona, where I am surrounding by hunters and ranchers.  I been a vegan for the last 3 years.  My father and step Mother has became vegan in the middle of Indiana.  You can live this lifestyle even in rural areas.

  • Vegan Urbanite

    I live in South Korea but would like to listen. Can I listen via the internet?

  • Guest

    So excited to see this topic being addressed on KQED. Yes, vegan food is healthy and yummy!

  • Elliot M. Katz, DVM

    Congratulations Michael for an important and much needed program. Veganism, for far too many, is still considered a strange and tasteless diet. In reality, a vegan diet can not only be as delicious as any meat and dairy based diet, but more importantly, it is better for one’s health, better for the environment, and a giant step towards creating a more just and compassionate world for all our fellow beings. Especialy the billions of animals who suffer so horribly in our nation’s factory farms and slaughter houses, Respectfully.

    Elliot M. Katz, DVM
    Founder and President Emeritus
    In Defense of Animals

  • guest

    So excited!

  • Lily304

    Can’t wait!

  • almiratanner

    Thank you for doing this show!

  • Alejandra

    Thank you for this important current topic, Michael! Veganism is healtht, compassionate and environmentally friendly. Thank you for bringing this to the awareness of so many. Looking forward to tomorrow’s show and may there be many more!

  • Jenny Kropik Lim

    Looking forward to listening in, especially when the topic is Vegan! Thank you for doing this show Michael!

  • Emily

    Thank you for addressing this important topic.  Adopting a low-fat, whole foods vegan diet can truly change the world in so many ways – from helping us lose weight and gain health to save the lives of billions of animals to helping to save the environment.  I know as going vegan 10 years ago helped me lose 40 pounds and completely changed the direction of my life, giving me a new passion for life and a new career. 

    Colleen Patrick-Goudreau is an incredible and tireless activist with a wealth of knowledge.  Chloe Coscarelli has helped bring attention to our movement by showing how delicious vegan food is on a popular Food Network show.   I hope to hear more shows on this topic in the future, perhaps featuring guests like Dr. Neal Barnard, Dr. John McDougall, Dr. Richard Oppenlander, John Robbins, Dr. Michael Greger, just to name a few.

    Thank you again,Emily WebberFood for Life Nutrition & Cooking InstructorThe Physician’s Committee for Responsible Medicine and the Cancer Project  

  • Looking forward to listening in, especially when the topic is Vegan! Thank you for doing this show Michael!

  • Birgit D.

    Very excited. Mrs. Goudreau is an amazing speaker. Thank you for going a show on the vegan lifestyle.

  • Diane

    Ohhh, what a great topic.  I’m a Forum fan, and this topic is very hot.  My husband and I are trying to learn more about how to correctly adopt a vegan diet, and both of these speakers sound like they’ll be good.  I’ll definately tune in. 

  • JNAHendrix

    I’m super excited for this show– I’ve never heard of the talk program before, but I am a huge fan of Colleen and her podcasts so naturally I was led here! I’m living in Japan currently (where it is 1pm on the 13th, already) so will this show be available online for me to stream tomorrow morning?

    • Kmenconi89

       Yes, it will air 10am PST – not sure how to work out the math on that – but just click on the listen live button at that time and you’ll be good. Or wait till later tomorrow and the audio will be posted on this page.

  • sds996

    sounds wonderful, they are both amazing speakers and i look forward to hearing more!! eating a plant based diet has changed my life and outlook in such a positive way

  • Barbsfelines

    Thank you for hosting this program.  This is a message that needs to get out.  Veganism is a healthful compassionate life choice which is good for every living being!

  • Karl Young

    Great show ! Colleen is fantastic, though I’m sure she’ll get flamed by the vituperative types who’s blood boil at the nerve of someone who doesn’t share their habitual behavior. Unfortunately I can’t listen live and testify to the great health and peace of mind benefits that veganism has afforded me, not to mention the great food provided by recipes like those of the guests, Hopefully some in the audience will at least listen before providing knee jerk reactions. Another great resource that should be mentioned on the show is Dr. Michael Greger, MD at 

  • Lee

    Thank you for covering this topic. People reducing their consumption of animal-based products and adopting a plant-based diet is critical in curbing dangerous climate change, with more greenhouse gas emissions caused from the animal products industries than all means of transport combined. I’m becoming ‘more vegan’ and my body feels so much cleaner and less stodgy when I don’t eat animal products.  Gonna be interesting what the speakers have to say. Thanks again.

  • Beth

    Have Chloe’s new cookbook and even the meat eaters in my life LOVED the recipes my friends and I made over the week end.  Her book is NOT just for vegans.  Lots of recipes that non vegans will love and probably will remind folks that without knowing it they may well be eating vegan sometimes and not even know it, like with the soups, salads etc.

  • Amanda Erickson

    I can’t wait to listen to this!

  • Amanda Erickson

    I’ve never listened to this radio show before, but now I will.

  • Kate

    I hope I have a chance to listen to this today (I’m in PA, though!)

  • Boston Vegan

    In our Western culture and diet, there is a negative association with being “Vegan.”  It is not uncommon for people to refer to us as “bark & berries” or “flower people” or “tree huggers” (none of which is bad in my humble opinion) and roll their eyes in admonition.  I was an omnivore for 50 years, and last year when my primary care physician recommended a “plant based, whole foods nutritional approach” (aka “Vegan diet”) and several books to read including “The China Study” by Dr. Colin Campbell and “Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease” by Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn, going Vegan was the easiest life shift I’ve ever made.  I really like the variety in Colleen’s recipes (I’ve got 2 of her books), and the meal options are endless.  Like omnivore cooking, vegan food prep can be as difficult or as easy as the chef chooses.  I prefer easy and uncomplicated!  Plant-based/whole foods cooking & eating is healthy and delish!!!  More Americans should shed their pre-conceived notions and adopt this approach.  Bet we’d see national healthcare costs drop precipitously.  Congrats to KQED and Michael Krasny for enlightening so many!!!

  • Jackie

    Thank you thank you, finally a show on vegan cooking.  I cannot wait!

  • I’m so excited that you’re doing this show. A vegan diet is not only healthier for us, it’s also kinder to animals and way better for the environment. As Victoria Moran (another awesome vegan author) says, “There is no downside. This is such an adventure!” Colleen is a fantastic author and speaker too, so this is bound to be an interesting show. Thanks again.

  • VganJules

    I can not wait to hear this!!! Downloaded the KQED ap and hope I can listen to it since I’m in Chicago. The more informed we are the better and I can’t think of anyone better than Colleen to do it! I also look forward to learning more about Chloe!! Great topic choice for your show.

  • Erika

    Finally!!! I hope this session will be taped and/or rebroadcasted as I won’t be able to listen to it live here in China. 

    • Hey Erika, you should be able to find the .mp3 available for download after noon pst today. You can also find KQED’s Forum as a podcast on iTunes and many audio apps like Stitcher.
      Hope all is well in China! Thanks for listening.

  • Kathleen

    I discovered Colleen’s podcasts several years ago and have been vegan ever since. With knowledge comes compassion and understanding and strength. I had been vegetarian since 1987. Vegan life is a clean life. I eat vegetables, beans, bread, rice, pasta, tofu, quinoa, salads and feel so grateful that no creature died or suffered for my diet. I am healthy and happy. I recently had a colonoscopy and the doctor said “You have the cleanest colon I’ve ever seen. What do you eat?” I told her I’ve been vegan for many years and advised her to watch “Forks Over Knives” and to get Colleen’s books. She later called to thank me! 

    • Carlos

      Kathleen, I can totally relate to your experience. I was vegetarian for 5 years when I found Colleen, who turned me into a vegan almost immediately. I have been vegan now for over 1 year. Having history in the family, I started having colonoscopies earlier but since my last one (as a vegetarian) I was told I no longer need to go as often a before. My family doctor really shocked me today saying he was transitioning to being a vegetarian, after congratulating me for my vegan choice.

  • julia

    These gals are amazing!  Thank you for having them!!

  • Dawn

    Thank you so much for having a show about veganism. 

  • Know any tasty vegan recipes? Got tips for vegan cooking? We want to hear them! Share them here.

    • Newdawnmt

      Bonnie in Montana is an excellent vegan chef and has numerous vegan recipes at her website for her gallery:

    • Bonnie & Parke

      here is a super-easy recipe that everyone loves, and vegan or not, it’s the BEST mac and cheese we’ve ever had:
      Mac and CheeseSauce Ingredients:1/3 cup raw cashews1 can of coconut milk1/3 cup nutritional yeast flakes2 tsp salt1 1/2 tsp onion powder1/4 cup cornstarch1 red bell pepper, chopped2 oz jar of pimentos 16 oz dry pastaOptional:2 – 3 cups fresh veggies (try chopped broccoli or kale)1 cup of Diaya cheese, shredded ~  Cook macaroni as directed on package. (If using fresh veggies, add them to the pot 2 -3 minutes before pasta is done.)~  Place all sauce ingredients in a blender and blend until smooth and creamy.~  When pasta is done cooking, drain well and return to the hot pot.  Pour the cheese sauce over pasta, and stir until thickened.

    • Beth

      Ian, my family LOVED Chloe’s Avocado Shitake Sushi,Wontons with Apricot and Mustard Sauce,and her Curried Lentil,Squash,and Apple Stew on page 55.

    • Erin

      I suggest (after getting Colleen’s and Chloe’s books of course) that you pick something you have in your fridge that you want to prepare and do a google search on vegan _____ recipe.  There will be so many recipes and such great information.  I have several of Colleen’s books and they are great.  People are constantly telling her how much they loved this or that recipe.  I recently made Colleen’s “no-eggs benedict” for some friends from out of town and they raved about it!

      My favorite, simple, go-to food is a rubbed kale salad.  Just strip the vein out of the kale, pour on some olive oil, salt and lemon juice.  Rub the kale together to soften it a bit and make it your own by adding avocado, nuts, hemp seeds, dried cranberries, vegan aioli, spinach, raw broccoli, etc.

  • JML

    Thank you for having a show with two of the best advocates for this healthy and compassionate lifestyle.

  • Bonnie & Parke

    Thank you for having Colleen and Chloe on your show today!  Colleen’s Vegetarian Food For Thought podcast was SO informative and helpful when we went vegan 5 years ago.   We have never felt better, and still marvel everyday at how delicious our meals are!  Going vegan is the best thing we ever did.

    • Charlesmidkiff3

       but for many of us, it’s all about the animal fat……………and nothing can ever compare (many I should apologize now)

    • Anna N. Bolla

      Been vegan since September & I have never eaten so well in my life (thanks, in part, to Colleen’s Vegan Baking cookbook); I’ve dropped two pant sizes & have donated so much clothing to Goodwill.

  • Geneviève

    What a wonderful pair for a show about veganism! I just bought Chloe’s GENIUS cookbook and Colleen’s informative and thoughtful podcast (and THE VEGAN TABLE, specifically) inspired my own vegan journey. I also own ALL of her books and I’m excited to hear what she has to say about THE #) DAY VEGAN CHALLENGE. I can hardly wait for the show! Thank you so much for inviting these amazing women onto the show!

  • Cenmkn

    Would LOVE to hear the audio for this program.  Hopefully it is available soon!  

  • megan watson

    I’m very excited for this program. I’m a big fan of both of these guests. Please have more shows like this more often!

  • Penelope Low

    Thank you Michael Krasny for having both these adorable, compelling, vegan chefs and advocates speak on your wonderful show. 

  • Sorenconrad

    Colleen’s podcast changed my life.  I am happy to hear her on here.  

  • Pikachu

    Too much that I find in “health food” stores is just sugary crap. Call it what you like — organic, fair trade, whole grain, whatever — if it is loaded with sugar then it is no more healthy than what’s in the candy isle at Safeway.

  • so excited about this show! Colleen is one of the greatest speakers and inspirational figures I’ve ever come across, I use her knowledge and apply her ideals of compassion in my life daily..

    and Chloe is one of my favorite vegan chefs, she makes vegan cooking so fun and approachable, and I love that she’s making it more mainstream with every appearance she makes

    thank you for featuring these great ladies and veganism!

  • mschaos

    actually yes there is (and I love me some meat) – coconut cream chocolate mousse. as I had to give of dairy, I found this lovely recipe – one to two cans of coconut cream chilled, 3-4 tbs cocoa powder, 3-4 tbs powdered sugar (or to taste). open the cans of coconut cream and scoop out the thick heavy part (use the watery part for soups, curry or smoothies) and sift in the coconut and sugar – mix well. chill for a bit and eat. it is fantastic

  • Dogzoe

    Colleen is so knowledgeable and upbeat; thank you for having her on your show.  More shows like this one, please.  Very timely, given the recent news about how bad eating a lot of red meat is for your longterm health.

  • $11165038

    I respect vegans and their reasons for being vegan. I think they have made a choice that works for them and I think it is wonderful. I just wish my choice to not be vegan can equally respected and not looked down upon.

    On an unrelated issue, what about the concerns about GMOs especially in relation to soy products.  

    • Chrisco

      Liz111, don’t worry. You are with the vast majority. Don’t feel so looked down upon and remember, you are literally the 99% who are not vegans.

      It reminds me of when Christians complain of how hard they have it in the US. It makes me scratch my head.

      • john

         exactly.  But I wouldn t lump Christians all in the same boat.Might say “some Christians.”

    • john

       Its not vegans who are making you feel guilty, its that little voice in the back of your head, called your conscience.  Humans are not reptiles.  We can find it hard to completely block out our awareness of the suffering of others.  We hate pain, even if it is happening to another creature.
      Blaming vegans for reminding us of these feelings is another form of a defense mechanism we adapt to block our awareness.  Check out Dr. Melanie Joy for further info about this.

       One has the same problem with GMOs whether one was omnivore or vegan.  Potentially GMO foods are present in many foods.  Read the ingredients list.  Industrially raised animals are fed GMO crops.
      One can be vegan and never eat soy products.

    • Imgreen07

      Most of this country is NON-vegan, as reflected by the choices offered at restaurants and grocery stores.  It doesn’t appear that the choice to not be vegan is looked down upon.  We just wish you would join us!  

  • Vince

    My step mother recently stopped eating red meat and she is no longer taking cholesterol medication. Since stopping the red meat her cholesterol levels dropped dramatically.

  • Svaha Nirmanakaya

    We must educate the public with regard to protein as it is an absolute myth that we can not meet our protein needs through a plant based diet.  Here is a good resource regarding protein.

    In addition to the protein argument, Dr. Milton Mills shows that human biology is herbivore in nature in the “Comparative Anatomy of Eating.”  The chart includes stomach acidity, intestine length, jaw alignment, teeth, mouth enzymes, and more. When comparing the human being to omnivores, carnivores and herbivores, humans match up with herbivores on every count. This information can be viewed here~

  • Eyeart

    How do you feel about eating eggs that come from lovingly pampered hens raised on an organic diet?

    Chris in Fairfax

    • Erin

      It is important to look at the entire life cycle of the whole industry.  How were the hens/chicks treated before they came to you?  Most likely as a commodity. Maybe shipped through the postal service in the cold with no food or water?  The boys were probably tossed in a dumpster or ground up or suffered an otherwise horrible death. What happened to the rest of the hens that you didn’t buy?  How are they being treated?  How do you know your hens are pampered? They can’t tell you how they feel.  Can you assure they won’t be attacked by a hawk, dog, or fox?  What will happen to them when they no longer produce eggs?  They naturally live a long time.  Will you be willing to pay a lot in vet care if they get sick?  If you really want chickens, go to the humane society.  Thousands of hens get rescued after horrific mistreatment by farmers, and the shelters are now full of these hens that need a home.

      Thanks for asking,
      Your neighbor

      • BuildUpNotOut

        So I go out and adopt a couple of hens from my local humane society. I keep them in my large, partially-shaded backyard in a safe enclosure with lots of room. I even play with them as they roam around in my backyard and forage. I have a vet come and check on them and keep them healthy. They’re pampered and played with and well-fed and entertained and safe and loved.

        …I still can’t eat their eggs?

        That is where I wish vegans would at least concede on this issue. I have yet to hear a good response to this scenario.

        • Erin

          I don’t think the issue of eating eggs at that point would be a moral one.  However, eggs are very unhealthy.  Vegans don’t all think the same, but I don’t see any problem with it if you really want them.

          • BuildUpNotOut

            Wow, really? I’m glad you were able to concede that point. Now, what about when one of my chickens dies of old age after a long, happy life… Should I not partake in eating her meat? Or should I just throw her body away and bury it, essentially wasting it (or turning it into worm food).. I would bet the vast majority of vegans would still say NO.

            Eggs are incredibly packed with proteins and vitamins and nutrients. They’re only unhealthy if you eat too much of them and too frequently, which, as is the case with meat and dairy, most Americans do.

        • Imgreen07

          There are a variety of reasons to go vegan.  Humanity is just one.  Environmental concerns and our general health are the others.  Obtaining hens as you have done is equivalent to a rescue, which I, as an animal rights activist applaud.  If they lay eggs and you want to eat them,  that’s up to you.  I don’t think that’s what the Forum show was about, or what Colleen or Chloe are addressing.  In most cases, even “humanely raised” hens have been purchased as chickens that were bred by the industry as production animals.  Purchasing them is contributing to that industry.  In your case, by rescuing them, you have not done so.  You are, however, participating in backyard animal raising, which when begun, is a slippery slope and you may encourage others, who see your practice, to engage in afore-mentioned purchase of egg-laying chickens thereby contributing to the mindset that food-producing animals are put on this planet for human consumption.

          • BuildUpNotOut

            Meh, I find you have to reach pretty far to defend certain points. Where some vegans won’t budge on things like this is where reason is gone. As I’ve said, I oppose factory farms, hormones, cages, machine-milking, antibiotics, feed lots, non-natural, non-organic, etc… and I support plants contributing to the vast majority of our diets. But to even have a tiny fraction of protein from some humane source like what I mention seems to be unjustifiable to some of the most hard-line “I’m more compassionate than thou” elitist vegans like Colleen.

          • utera

            To add to that 45 million americans are on food assistance, her ideals would be to price meat out of the reach of many people.

    • Francie

      Great question, Chris! 
      Your neighbor,

  • VeganBreak (Michelle)

    My favorite recipe: vegan “chicken” noodle soup! I made a video featuring the recipe over at

  • Corey

    I highly recommend the all vegan Millennium gourmet restaurant in San Francisco.  If you want to be impressed and surprised by how good vegan food can be.  They have the most amazing chocolate mouse cake among many other things.  They also have a cook book.

  • victoria s.

    I was recently diagnosed with MS, so I was compelled to eat differently. After researching about the best ways to eat, we decided to go with a plant based diet. We’ve been on the diet for seven weeks now and we have more energy, we sleep better–we feel much better overall! The only thing that we really miss is cheese. Want to know, is there anything that can match that taste?

    NOT going back!

  • Kara Elle

    I am so excited Michael Krasny decided to have Colleen on his show. Thank you, Michael! This has been a long time coming!

  • Miaosf

    Do you have *quick* vegan dinner recipes that appeals to young kids?

    • Imgreen07

      my son loves bean tamales topped with vegan chile!  I used to make him twice-baked potatoes, stuffed as your kids would prefer, topped with vegan cheese (Daiya preferred).  He also really likes pasta.  you can make or buy a pesto, and blend spinach into the pesto.  Pizza with daiya cheese is great!  salad with vegan “ranch” style dressing is popular as well.  if you need more, just ask!

  • Dawn Margolin

    would like to discuss vegan diet as cure for diabetes-working for me! Dawn 510 219-2716

  • Rawlternative

    thank you so much for offering a platform to these guests! literally saving lives….

  • Drew

    What “bland”?  What “lack of flavor”?

    NMP or Non-Meat Protein can be made in ANY flavor to appeal to any palate. 
    Our research with very forwarding-thinking winemakers will produce NMP perfectly
    matched to a variety of vegan wine made specifically for this purpose. 
    With only very little work, this can be achieved for any individual’s palate – a
    custom meal.  It’s a no-brainer! 

  • Ldrapkin97

    Colleen is absolutely amazing and so well-informed! Thank you so much for having her on.

  • Sara

    Colleen’s Joy of Vegan Baking changed my life. I went vegan 2 years ago, after purchasing her book, and have never felt better. I am a 28-year-old yoga teacher and half-marathon runner, and love the increased energy this lifestyle has brought me. Adopting a vegan, whole foods diet has been the greatest gift i have given myself, and i will never look back.

    PS: Colleen’s chocolate chip cookie recipe will blow your mind!

  • Wendy Willias

    I’ve been preparing Colleen’s recipes for one year and have shared them to the delight of all my meat-eating friends and relatives.  I’m thrilled to hear these marvelous guests and hope you continue with similar guests in the future!

  • Lydia

     Serendipitously, I just put a cinnamon coffee cake in the oven – a recipe from Colleen’s book. Thank you for inviting these guests to discuss this poignant topic. Our family, vegetarians for years, bought Colleen’s 30-day Vegan Challenge in November of last year, for health and ethical reasons. It is a comprehensive primer w/creative and super delicious recipes. Our favorite: Thai Salad w/Orange-Ginger vinagrette. Simultaneously, we began a jogging routine and completed the Kaiser 1/2 Marathon last month. We have great energy, digestion is improved, and I feel like my lifestyle is more in line with my values of living compassionately. My husband’s lipid panel, fasting glucose and prostate values all went down from the last time it was checked (on the vegetarian diet). I encourage people to try it! Michael come over for some coffee cake after the show!

  • I so love you Colleen, you’re such an inspiration…what you say makes so much sense!

  • Joe Thomas

    Question for ethical vegans: is honey acceptable? If not, is it because of the exploitation of bees’ labor? Can you then ethically eat fruits and vegetables pollinated by bees? (And does it matter whether the bees are rented from commercial beekepers?)

    • Sorenconrad

      I choose not to eat it because Bee production on high production or even low production businesses often use insemination techniques that kill the male bee and brutally inseminates the queen bee. 

  • Dana

    Michael! You can reverse your diabetes (probably) with a plant based diet! Please watch Forks Over Knives. Love you.

  • GK

    Thank you for inviting Chef Chloe (Your cookbook is GENIUS, THANK YOU) and Colleen Patrick-Goudreau, who was the person to inspire my veganism through her thoughtful, well-researched podcast and all her fantastic books, specifically including THE VEGAN TABLE. I’ve been vegan for a year and a half and 90% of my FMS symptoms evaporated within the first month of ditching dairy. Thank you!!

  • patkennel

    As a low carbohydrate (local, humanely processed, organic, expensive) eater, I would love to hear Colleen’s response to the critique of vegan and vegetarian diets that they are too high in carbohydrates.  There is (in my opinion) a very viable theory that high carbohydrate (what we typically call “normal”) diets actually may be the root cause of diabetes, heart disease and other so called diseases of excess in modern American culture.  This theory argues that it is the bloody sugar and insulin fluctuation and imbalance caused by dietary carbohydrates that causes overweight, diabetes and ultimately heart disease as well.  References would be from Loren Cordain M.D. (author of ‘The Paleo Diet’) and Gary Taubes (science reporter and author of ‘Why We Get Fat’).  

  • Andrew

    I have to strongly disagree with Colleen’s assertion that we, the human race, do not have an urge to eat meat.  I can’t speak for everyone, but I know when I get very hungry, I frequently look nearby animals in terms of how readily they could be caught and eaten.  I agree that eating less meat and more plants has a variety of benefits, but talking about the whole human race as having or not having certain carnivorous instincts comes across as presumptious.

  • Anne-Marie

    I’m a huge fan of Chloe, listening from Abingdon, near Oxford in the UK!

  • Phelicia

    My husband and I would love to include a vegan meal a week for our family, but we have two young girls (2 and 5) and want to make sure they get the protein they need.  Our doctor has discouraged us from using fermented soy products with the girls because of the phyto-estrogens.  Can we provide them the protein we need on a vegan diet without including soy? I guess I’ll have to look into Chloe’s Kitchen cookbook and see.  Thanks for making me think!

  • Daz

    I’m going out now to buy two cookbooks, Chloe’s and Colleens. I’ll test the mac and cheese recipes. Thanks for having them on.
    Did Colleen say that casein causes cancer? I’d like to see some research on this.

    • Karuna

      For what it’s worth, while vegan mac and “cheese” recipes abound, they are not all equally tasty. My favorite so far is – happy cooking!

    • Bonnie & Parke

      Read the China Study, and watch Forks Over Knives!  you will be amazed at all the research that supports this.  Another great film is Got the Truth on Milk?

    • Imgreen07

      Read the China Study by Colin Campbell.  It’s all about casein causing cancer.

  • VeganBreak (Michelle)

    Bay Area vegetarian / vegan restaurants: Herbivore, Millenium, Saturn Cafe, Souley Vegan, Breakroom Cafe, Cha Ya, Cafe Gratitude, Golden Lotus, Encuentr…I could go on and on! 

  • Ani (Annie)

    Jonathan Saffron Foer’s book, “Eating Animals” sealed the deal for me.  After becoming knowledgable, I cannot pretend otherwise.  

  • Libby Bowles

    I did Joel Fuhrman’s 6 week vegan Eat to Live. It was easy and fun but I found that even after 6 weeks I felt a little light headed and spacey. After the 6 weeks I added in a little fish and immediately felt better. Any suggestions for getting around that spacey feeling without the animal protein?

    • Erin

      Hard to say but when I first became vegan I craved fish.  Are you getting enough Omega 3?  Maybe try a supplement or a full spectrum food version.  Could also try more raw dark green veggies, nuts and olive oil.

    • Imgreen07

      It’s wise to get blood test for B-12, Iron, Vitamin D, and to be examined for any other defiiciencies.  Don’t assume it’s protein.  As many nutritional experts have said, if you are getting enough calories from a variety of whole food plant-based sources, you will not be short on protein.  There are numerous things that can cause a spacey feeling.

  • Calder Yates

    Colleen, I just looked up your book on amazon… It’s $129! Where can I buy it cheaply?

    • JenK

      Check again…I just found it on Amazon for 10.98.  Perhaps you were looking at an older or similar out-of-print book?

  • L_roberts

    I am really enjoying this discussion. My son has severe anaphylactic allergies to dairy, peanuts, tree nuts and eggs. I find it hard to get good proteins. Do you have any recommendations?

    • Erin

      You could try soy products, and legumes (e.g., beans and peas).  Also veggies have protein (e.g., broccoli and spinach).

  • Tom Sheahan

    Hi there:

    I am a new plant based eater – three weeks. I watched forks over knives DVD and I was blown away by the sound research on the correlation of the western carnivore diet to cancer and diabetes. I am not forgoing meat and dairy for moral or religious reasons.

    I have always been a healthy eater; egg whites, protein shakes, grass fed meat – the results of my new plan based diet have blown me away. I have lost 2 inches in my gut, and my blood pressure has dropped 10-20 points

  • Dan

    My apologies for coming late to the discussion. Michael, several weeks ago you had a food commentator on the show who summarized his message in three words: “eat real food.” I am often concerned when I shop for vegan options because of the obviously significant amount of processing that must go on in order to turn plants into simulation meats. I would be interested to hear your guests perspectives on this high degree of processing, which on its face, seems contrary to the plant-based, vegan worldview. Thank you for comments!

    • Imgreen07

      eat whole foods as much as possible.  this is good advice no matter what you eat!

  • Mary

    “Vegan” is a useful label, but it’s also OK if you can be almost-vegan.  I call this being vegan-ish.  For example, I have 4 backyard hens that I treat  like pets, and that I let wander my yard for a good part of every day.  They’re elderly, but they give me about 8 eggs/week for three seasons a year.  With their eggs, I’m a happy almost-vegan.

    • EponymousIme

      No, Mary, you cannot be “almost vegan” any more than you can be “mostly” a virgin or “usually” a pacifist.  Either you are or you aren’t.

      • Sara

        I disagree. any effort to consume fewer animals and their products can have a profound effect on our bodies and our society as a whole.  moreover, the “vegan” label is only a convenient way to refer to a lifestyle, not a strict diet.  Veganism is not about being “perfect” or “pure”.  It is a means towards embracing compassion, and not an end in itself.  I agree with you Mary, and hope you continue to be happy in that!  I would also recommend listening to Colleen’s podcast for more thoughts on this issue.

      • Imgreen07

        I don’t think the label here is important and it doesn’t help anyone to tell them what they can call themselves.

  • V Simpson

    After being a vegetarian for 40 years, I became a vegan 1 1/2 years ago in an attempt to control my cholesterol.  To my doctor’s surprise, my bad numbers have been dropping over time.  I am a confirmed vegan now.  BUT the prepared vegan foods and substitute packaged meats are FAR TOO SALTY.  As salty as junk food.   Why?

  • Let’s talk about cost.  I am a meat eater but I have a few Vegan cookbooks.  Most of the recipes in them call for specialty ingredients like BRAGG amino acids.  The cost of the dish ends up being more than if I’d made it with poultry and dairy.  I don’t doubt the health benefits but unless one is going to make dishes that don’t need a lot of “prep” (beans and rice, cous cous, raw vegetable dishes) the cost of making vegan dishes is going to be more expensive.

    • ALanza

      You can replace BRAGG amino acids with tamari or soy sauce, which is really really cheap.  Also, part of the “low cost” we see with dairy, eggs and meat is government subsidies.  When I switched to a vegan diet, I saw huge cost savings!

  • Linsaycolvin

    My favorite recipe…..? ANYTHING from ANY of Colleen’s cookbooks.
    So happy to hear her on here.
    One of my favorite things that Colleen said about “humanely” raised animals for meat was “It’s like justifying killing your neighbor because you know they were happy in their home with their family when you did it.”

  • Reg

    What about the theory that says that “all living” things including plants are alive…So eating vegan is yes more healthy, but we are still killing something living..! 

    • segvan

       Does that mean that we should start eating chemically produced meal pills?

      Reminds me of a certain South Park episode

    • ALanza

      This may differ person to person, but most vegans (myself included) use the idea of sentience (ability to think, fell pain etc) as a guiding principle.  There is no data to support the concept that plants feel pain, whereas we know that nearly all animals do feel pain, including fish, birds, mammals and most invertebrates.  Furthermore, a plant based diet requires less plants than a diet that includes meat, as animals are inefficient converters of plant nutrition.  1 lb of steak requires 16 lbs of grain to produce.

  • Sarah

     I switched to
    vegan from the ubiquitous vegetarian diet after attending the Dr. McDougall
    program. Colleen was one of the chef’s who taught us how to make amazing
    dishes. Without her books and instruction I am not sure I would have been able
    to adjust to the change. Now I wonder why I took so long.


    My main goal was to improve my health, now I do take cholesterol or blood pressure medication. Worth the effort and cooking
    has never been more fun.

  • Lexi

    I’m a meat-eater but love vegan food.  I also include meatless meals when I cook for my family.  While I certainly believe industrial agriculture is a cruel industry, can your vegan guests comment on the insects and native animals that are killed and displaced by agriculture, and on the unethical treatment of farmworkers who will inevetibly harvest vegan food? Vegan food is also not without costs to our environment.  With that said, I do believe less meat and dairy is the best diet for our health. 

  • Phyllis

    It bothers me that so many vegan recipes are trying to reproduce none vegan dishes, peoples old favorites.  Why not call it mushroom pasta without the reference to calamari?  It actually makes these dishes less appealing for me.

  • Paul

    I was a vegetarian, mostly vegan, for 6 years in my late 20’s early 30’s. I was overweight and constantly hungry and it probably brought me closer to syndrome X (pre-diabetes) by eating huge carbohydrate loaded meals. I did it for ethical issues and because I thought this was healthy eating. 

    I have seen veganism work for some, and not for others. I believe each person needs to know their own bodies. Today in my mid 40’s I eat meat and vegetables and no processed food, my blood lipid panel is near perfect, and I feel 15 years younger.

  • I eat dairy, poultry and fish.  I stopped eating pork because friends of mine got a pig as a pet and the thing was so intelligent that I had to stop eating pig out of respect.  I stopped eating beef and lamb for health reasons.  But I’ve yet to meet a fish or a chicken that I really respect so, for now, I’m going to keep eating them.  And the cows I’ve met have all seemed to me like “dumb beasts” so I’m going to keep eating their milk products.  

    • EponymousIme

      What are your criteria for respecting something/some one?  That they be like you?  That they speak your language?  That you understand everything about them with no effort on your part?   Seems to me the label of “dumb beast” is being applied to the wrong animal.

      • Sara

         Adreana i don’t think you are a dumb beast. but given your experiences with pigs, don’t you think its plausible that cows, poultry, and yes, even fish are incredibly intelligent beings too?  After all, human intelligence is specific to humanness, and is not a standard for all living creatures.  They are brilliant at what they do: caring for their young, participating in the ecosystem, propagating life.  If you ground your respect on the richness of life experiences that are beyond human beings, I think you will find a renewed sense of compassion for all animals regardless of how well they “measure up” to humans.

        • Imgreen07

          Calves are taken from their mothers right after birth, and they both cry for each other.  These calves are crated for a few weeks and slaughtered as veal, if they are male; and kept as milk cows if female.  Knowing this makes a milk-drinker supportive of the cruelty inflicted on these sentient being.  Vote with your dollars and don’t support the dairy industry.

  • Dkrt

    Going vegan can reverse diabetes….it would be worth giving it a try if you want to live a longer, healthier life.

  • Al R.

    I have been a Vegan for 4 years now.  It was not an overnight process. I first gave up red meat, then fish. Going vegan was harder, but when I did, my cholesterol went down 100 points and my health and energy improved enormously. It was a gradual process for me and sometime I recommend for those considering this choice.
    No single choice has a more profound effect on your health, life and the environment then choosing a vegan diet.


  • Esthertrible

    I’m reading the book 1493–the author describes the Irish and potatoes–potatoes and a bit of milk is all the poor ate and they were very healthy until the potato virus hit. 

  • Andrew

    After growing up as a
    carnivore, I just recently turned Vegan and one of my most favorite recipes is
    from a book that is published by Chronicle Books (a San Francisco publisher)
    called Big Vegan–It’s Vegan Lentil Chili.


    It has lentils,
    bulgar, ancho pepper, tomatoes, green peppers, bay leaf, cumin, chili powder,
    and oregano–it’s sooooooo flavorful and sooooo easy.  It takes 30 minutes
    to prep and cook.  It makes 6 servings, and costs about $4 to make.
     What’s not to love about that?

  • Degen6

    I disagree with the statements being made that humans are not ment to eat meat. Things like vitamin b12, protein and iron are found in more bio available forms in animal products. We are omnivores just look at our teeth incisors and molars.

    • Imgreen07

      If we were meant to eat meat, we’d be able to take down and tear apart an animal’s flesh.  Can you do that?  That’s how carnivores are built.  Carnivores also have shorter intestines so the meat passes through their bodies quickly.  Our intestines are longer, to digest plants.  Given our long intestines, meat stays in our bodies longer than it should and creates some of the health problems we see from meat.

      • BuildUpNotOut

        We’re not carnivores, but we’re not herbivores either.

        We’re omnivores.

        Any study of human physiology and anthropology would show you are wrong. Did we evolve hunting down big game with our bare hands and biting into them with our teeth? No. But we DID evolve by eating meat that was scavenged, from smaller animals, and later on by using tools.

        • Imgreen07

          I guess the point is, we don’t need meat or dairy or eggs to survive now.  Maybe in the past, we did need to, but now we don’t.  

  • Herama

    As a former long-time
    vegetarian who tried veganism and knew many vegans, I no longer think
    that a vegan diet is healthy. Most vegans I’ve known were not
    particularly healthy. Add to that the increasing consensus that wheat is
    not well tolerated by many people, soy has problems (I can’t eat it
    without consequences) and grains in general are not that good for
    humans, I question how one could eat a vegan diet that would promote
    optimal health.

    • Imgreen07

      There are plenty of books on the subject.  I’ve read many and attended many talks about living vegan.  By educating myself, I’ve learned how to eat a vegan diet that promotes optimal health.

  • Jean_hs

    michael, do you have dementia?  how could you possibly mention Aunt Jemima Pancakes?
    Bad taste, bad form!

  • Allison’s Gourmet

    Thank you for your show on veganism with Colleen and Chloe, two very intriguing and intelligent women.
    My husband and I have been healthy vegans for 17 and 15 years, respectively and have raised our 5-year-old daughter, Olivia, vegan for her whole life. She is healthier than most adults and loves vegetables; eating kale directly from our garden! 
    Western diets are deficient in plants, not protein.

  • Rani

    “Vegucated”  is a FABULOUS movie which converted me to veganism, or almost veganism.  It is funny, warm-hearted, and explains the benefits to the world clearly.  It is a six week challenge which three normal residents of NYC agreed to take and be filmed, all of them really entertaining.  One of them is now in the Bay Area, Brian Flegel.  It also won Best Documentary at the 2011 Toronto Independent Film Festival.

  • Jessica Bradberry

    My 1 year vegan anniversary is next month, and Colleen’s podcast, books, and website have helped empower me to make the healthful, compassion-driven choices. The ‘average American diet’ made me overweight, unhealthy, and miserable. Now at my 11-month mark, I have lost over 40 pounds, rarely get sick, and have a new love for life. Thank you Colleen, for helping me (and my 5 year old son – who is also transitioning from vegetarian to vegan) find a true and meaningful life.

  • Tennisburger

    Why is eating out such a rip off when you eat vegan food? You essentially get a plate of vegetables for $15? Also, can your guests comment on why they’re so smug?
    John in SF

  • stpaso

    In December, my wife and I ate at Blooming Lotus in Portland. The food and ambience were fantastic.

  • Barbara

    Glad to hear this program on a vegan lifestyle.  Could the authors mention vitamin B12- my levels were low on a blood test when I was eating a vegan diet.  This is the one health issue to be concerned about on a vegan diet.

    • ALanza

      Vitamin B12 is produced by bacteria, not animals.  In the past, we met that need through soil left on vegetables.  Nowadays, it is easy to address with a B12 vitamin, very cheap and very easy, or even B12 fortified foods like breads and plant based milk.

    • Dkrt

       If you are using non-dairy milk, look for those that are supplemented with B12.  Also, consider adding some Nutritional Yeast to your food.  You can also get vegan B12 supplements from Whole Foods.

  • JoLynn

    When I decided to become vegan almost 6 years ago and was looking for vegan recipes, I stumbled across Colleen’s podcast.  She opened my eyes to the world of factory farming as well.  My son decided to go vegan a year later.  For those of you wondering how a vegan diet is for kids/teenagers, my son is 14 years old, vegan for almost 5 of them and he just had blood work done a couple of months ago and his results came back perfect!  As far as food goes…everytime I bring a dish to an party I always get asked for the recipe.
    Thanks Colleen!  Chloe I’m looking forward to your new cookbook.

  • ALanza

    Listening to Colleen’s podcast and reading her books have changed my life and I have been vegan for over a year now.  I am eating so healthfully and my grocery bill has dropped.  I bake all the time and everyone loves my vegan cooking, including my omnivorous boyfriend.  Thank you for addressing this extremely important, healthful and compassionate topic!

  • Al

    When I considered a vegan diet, I saw a dietitian.  I was astounded to hear that the USDA recommend 110 grams of protein a day for my sex, age and weight, while the World Health Organization recommend 40.  I can only imagine the discrepancy is due to meat lobbyist, but the simpler explanation is more cultural. I eat pleasant of protein as a vegan, and I find we live in a culture where there are more diseases to protein excess not deficiencies.


  • MartinG

    I have to say, I’m getting tired of the comment “We are the only animal that eats another animals milk.” We are also the only animal that has created a civilization and technology. 

    •  I agree, however if you get a chance to watch “Forks Over Knives” or read “The China Study” I think you’ll see that milk is not the healthy drink we have been told it is. It’s highly correlated to cancer growth and has plenty of cholesterol and man-made hormones.

      • Castaway

        Specifically, cancer seems caused by pasteurized milk, and not by raw milk. Duh.

    • Sara

       sure. but the two aren’t connected… we didn’t figure out how to build computers by drinking cows milk.  and now that we have plant-based alternatives that don’t involve animal suffering, our “civilization” would be better off (i.e. healthier and more compassionate) by leaving the cows alone

    • Racquelle

      I don’t understand your point. Milk helped us to do this????

  • Alex

    Why don’t you have more objective speakers to offer a more balanced perspective rather than vegan-diet peddlers?  

  • Barbara in Oakland

    I have been vegan half my 46 year life and am raising two vegan daughters who are 9 and 12 and at the top of growth charts. The three of us have a vegan dinner party every 15th of the month which focuses on the cuisines of the world instead of meat and dairy substitutes and we’ve dazzled a large group of meat eaters every month for the past 123 months. I would love for your guests to come to dinner this Thursday for an Indian feast.

  • Ccunnison

    Re: the protein myth:

    Where do you think gorillas, horses, giraffes and other muscley raw vegan herbivores get their protein?  Numerous studies have shown that the ideal protein intake is only 5%, not 40-50% as in common in the standard American diet.  In fact it’s the excess of protein that correlates to increased rates of prostate and breast cancer as well as cardiovascular disease.  

    It’s the component (20) amino acids we need, not “protein,” and these amino acids can be found and readily absorbed from plants!

    • Sumnerd

      I’ve seen giraffes in the wild chewing on animal bones (some sort of femur).  I guessed it was or calcium, but don’t know.

    • $5334007

      The Standard American Diet is top heavy in sugar and fat ~ not protein.

      • Vegancouple

        yes, it is also high in protein with eggs milk bacon in AM…meat, chicken at lunch and more meat and chicken/pork at dinner everyday…….plus more and more  dairy  you do the math

        • $5334007

          If you would take even a short time to research your replies I would not have to post the facts. The Standard American Diet is a high sugar, high fat diet with protein levels on the low end. 

          • Imgreen07

            Wikipedia is not the best source of scientific fact.  There are many studies showing the American diet is too high in animal protein, premier among them is the China Study, by Colin Campbell.

          • $5334007

            The China Study is treated as a farce by all but the veg crowd that finds its stupidities, assumptions, distortions and out right lies beneficial to their ideology. If your disclaiming of fact is based upon the “facts” found in The China Study there is nothing I will be able to do, to dissuade you of your fallacious positions. 

          • john

             A “farce,” eh? 
            Who says? You?

    • BuildUpNotOut

      Where do bonobos and chimpanzees get their protein? Those are our closest relatives.

      Should we eat a lot less animal protein and eat a lot more plants? Yes. Should we cut it out all together? No. But that is your lifestyle choice and I respect that. Just don’t try to tell everyone else they need to eat nothing but plants or else they’re a bad person.

  • Lydia

    good vegan restaurant
     Shangri-La Vegan

    4001 Linden St (between 40th St & 41st St)
    Oakland, CA 94608

    (510) 547-1842

  • We’re getting lots of great comments about how veganism has impacted the lives of our listeners! Does anyone else have some tasty recipes or useful cooking tips to share?

    • Boston Vegan

      Cooking tip: when saute-ing veggies (often w/ garlic and onion), only put a small bit of EVOO on the pan, then use broth or water to “complete” the pan saute base.  One day I hope to get away from EVOO entirely, but not there yet.

    • ALanza

      Colleen’s book The Vegan Table would be my favorite, a great balance of savory recipes with some desserts.  

  • Traveler

    What cruelty is there in consuming cow milk?
    I need it, because I cannot do without really great coffee, in the form of a cappuccino, which requires 1% fat milk.
    I can do without junk coffee, like what’s sold at 98% of cafes out there including Starbucks, to which soy milk can be added and it still tastes awful.
    But for the truly great cappuccino or latte, like what’s sold in Italy and southern France and a few places in the USA, cow milk is vital.

  • Husam

    If you love meet I think you should go out there and find the animal you like and kill it like the American pioneers this is the way it should be done.  Growing up my family ate meet rarely and it was a treat for all of us.

  • I grew up on a dairy farm.  All this cruelty talk at least about dairy cows is wrong, at least with our cows.  We loved them.  They loved us.  They had a hundred acres of pasture for 3 seasons a year and a warm barn in the winter. And are plants happy about being yanked from the ground to be consumed by Vegans?

  • dawn

    Question: Please discuss research on implications of a vegan diet on infants and brain development.  My reading suggested that brain development requires fat and that vegetable fat, such as found in tofu or avocados, adequately supports brain development.

    • $5334007

      If you feed your infant soy anything there should be a case for child endangerment. Humans need fats that are not found in vegetables and the need for human milk testifies to that fact. I note also the usage of the word “adequately” in your post ~ I think I would like MY child to have “optimal” development ~ but that’s just my opinion.

  • Chrisco

    You may be more virile if you eat meat and even more virile if you eat other people that you kill in battle, goes one of Krasny’s devil’s advocate arguments. Yes, it goes out the window!

  • RLBJ

    One look in the mirror will tell you we have been eating meat since forever.  (Canine teeth) This is also revealed in the obsessive attention required by vegans to make sure they have the nutrition required for a healthy diet.

    • Imgreen07

      Myth: canine teeth are for eating meat.  Do you take down and tear apart animals with your bare hands & teeth?  
      As for vegans “obsessive” about their health, it only looks that way compared to most people who don’t consider what they eat, don’t research to learn anything about their bodies, eat fast food, then get cancer, heart disease, diabetes, etc… and spend the rest of their lives on meds.  
      I’d rather be healthy.  If you want to call that obsessive, be my guest.

  • Zak

    I just finished a 10-day juice fast. It was amazing to me that by the fourth and fifth day, my energy was noticeably more even, even without the amount of calories to which my body has become accustom. 

    I used to fight my wife on the idea of salad for dinner, but since finishing the fast, even a hearty salad feels decadent. 

    I know it isn’t related directly to veganism, but it’s definitely made me think differently, and appreciate how adaptive the body really is.

  • Katrinahoch

    Thank you to the producers for having this show! It is great to hear these two knowledgeable vegan voices.

  • Real food

    Paleo and primal eating also offers amazing health benefits to people who switch from the standard american diet. The (health) comparison shouldn’t be meat or no meat, but rather processed foods vs. REAL foods.

    Most studies that claim to show vegan health benefits compare the standard American diet (mostly processed, full of sugar and corn syrup, added salt, and corn in everything) rather than against a real food diet mostly of vegetables but also including meat.

    • $5334007

      Bravo ~ finally someone with an understanding of human dietary needs.

    • BuildUpNotOut

      Exactly. It’s not so much about eating no meat/animal protein, it’s about where that animal protein comes from, how it is acquired, and how much of your diet it fills. I find a lot of the arguments from Colleen had to do with “compassion” – but you can throw that out the window in many examples (I posted a lengthy comment shortly ago). Humans evolved as omnivores, and my body thanks me for following that tradition. The problem isn’t that people are eating animal protein, it’s that they’re eating far, far too much of it and it’s coming from factory farming, caged, hormone-injected, antibiotic-filled, abused animals raised like machines, processed and preservative-filled to boot.

  • Chrisco

    I have never heard of Colleen, but she is an excellent representative for the vegan position. Extremely knowledgeable and articulate.

    • Sorenconrad

      Check out her podcast.  I usually hate listening to animal activists because they are usually not very well spoken  and kinda come off as preachy.  Colleen is so well spoken and eloquent. Very easy to listen too.

      • Greeneyedbel

        I totally agree! Colleen puts compassion in the forefront of her message. She has made my transition to a plant-based diet doable, and has helped me to explain my decision to others in a way that is understandable and positive.

  • Elizabeth

    I think “going Vegan” makes a lot of sense for health reasons – but I find that I am turned off by the self-righteous attitudes of Vegans that I have met. It is the same with Atkins devotees or the current No-Sugar people. They are more interested in telling you that what you are doing is wrong (for health or moral reasons) instead of introducing you to some great new foods.

    • Sorenconrad

      I wouldn’t say we are all like that but you tune in to the people that openly engage others in conversation about veganism and you tend to get some of those attitudes. I try combating that by being careful with how I talk about the topic and how I engage others.  Sorry your experience with other vegans has not been pleasurable. 

      • Imgreen07

        I agree, I won’t even bring it up unless someone asks me about my eating habits.  I feel as soon as I mention that I don’t eat meat or that I’m vegan, people want to defend their habits. I don’t want to put anyone on the defensive, so I avoid the topic!

  • Juliette

    The way that the farming industry is raising the animals that are consumed today is vastly different from what was available 100 years ago. That includes plant crops also. Eating a plant strong organic diet for the best nutrients is the only way to go.

  • Sara

    I just whipped up some of Colleen’s tofu scramble while listening in. delicious on a bagel with hummus!  thank you for hosting this show, living vegan is such a powerful transformation for the body and for living more compassionately in the world.  This is such an important conversation and I’m so glad to hear on npr this morning.  We all need to become more conscious and informed and I hope we can create a society that understands why.  Colleen, you are amazing, and Chloe, i can’t wait to check out some of your cookbooks too!

    • $5334007

      Goggle Soy Danger and never eat tofu again. Read some of the information about Gluten and you will never eat wheat, rye, barley or contaminated oats again. Read about the GMO dangers of many commercial plants and you will never eat them again. Read about what humans ate from an evolutionary standpoint and join the millions that have returned to a healthful diet.

  • Monica

    I think using meat substitutes like veggie burgers or tofu hot dogs is not the best way to become vegan or even vegetarian. Those foods usually taste nothing like the real thing and leave people feeling unsatisfied or craving meat. It’s better to explore new foods and ideas than trying to replicate meat. I love vegetables because they are vegetables and taste like vegetables. Most fake meat substitutions are also very expensive. I think it’s better to buy produce, nuts, and spices and be creative.

  • Jen

    I eat vegan quite often both for my body and for the planet and agree wholeheartedly that a vegan diet can be rich with flavor. I’d have a load more respect for your guests however if they’d just come out and admit that animal based foods taste great. period.

  • ALanza

    We should remember that most Americans suffer from health problems; consider diabetes, heart disease, dementia, breast cancer, arthritis, all of which are CLEARLY linked to the consumption of animal products.  Eating a plant only diet is much healthier.  That is scientifically proven.

  • Robin

    We have been vegan for 6 months now and when we first started we did not care for the meat substitutes. After awhile our palettes changed and some of those foods now seem great to us. We still don’t care for any of the vegan hot dogs (but we can live without hot dogs easily!) but we love the Trader Joe’s vegan Italian sausage. Just like any food- some is good, some we pass on. We have also learned to eat these foods as treats, not as our main diet. The main diet is based on vegetables, fruits and whole grains with avocado, flax seed and some nuts. Our primary reason for the change was for our health and with any healthy eating we try to now limit our fat and sugar intake. Cooking and food preparation takes longer but we feel our improved health is greatly worth that small additional investment of time.

    • $5334007

      Please do some research before you damage your health, perhaps permanently. The SAD (Standard American Diet) is a disaster but do not be led into an even worse situation by advocates of a vegan diet. There is no need to eat dairy, grains, beans, starchy roots or industrial oils. If you eat vegetables, meat some fruit and tree nuts you will eat how evolution designed humans to eat. If you have philosophical reasons not to eat meat that is your right but understand that you will pay a price with your own health.

  • Barbara

    …Oh how I wish you had a medical expert on the vegan side such as Dr. John McDougal or Ornish or….

    • ALanza

      Totally agree.  It is amazing how medical doctors are often so concerned when people start eating a lot of vegetables, what about the people who aren’t eating ANY vegetables?

    • $5334007

      There are no experts on the vegan side

      • Newdawnmt

        Dr Neal Barnard, MD,  for one.

      • Beth

        Dr. John McDougal up near Napa, Dr Dean Ornish who helped President Clinton become vegan, Dr Neal Barnard who wrote the foreward to Chloe’s book are ALL vegan experts and highly respected. And I remember a good ten years ago reading that Dr Ornish’s work/studies were responsible for getting health insurance companies to cover prevention care rather than the standard coverage where they treat the medical problem once its expensive.

        • Christy piwowarczyk

          I have been following Dr Joel Fuhrman for over five years and have improved every one of my blood profiles. This is a science and relates to a formula! Nutrition density per calorie, simply put. Authors like Colleen and Chloe make it more fun and easy to follow! Thanks you have all changed my life as well as my family’s.

      • Imgreen07

        Ok, Frazere is obviously a troll, to be ignored, not taken seriously.  

        • Castaway

          That’s your best response to him???

          • Imgreen07

            Yes, it is.  If you’d like to respond to him, feel free.

        • Racquelle

          So true!

  • $11165038

    I don’t like how dismisive the guests are of people who either don’t agree with them and may have good reason not to choose a vegan diet or the health issues that may be involved. What is wrong with simply admitting the diet may not be the right diet for everybody? It doesn’t take away from the value of a vegan diet for those that choose it. Why does one diet have to fit everybody?

    • EponymousIme

      They were not dismissive.  If anyone was dismissive, it was the host.  And how can a diet that produces heart disease be right for ANYbody?  If, despite the information available, you still want to eat a destructive diet, go ahead; no one’s stopping you.  Ditto for smoking or riding a motorycle without a helmet.  Just don’t expect people who have behaved responsibly to subsidize your medical treatments and ongoing care.

      • guest

        That’s a little severe. One diet doesn’t fit all. A vegetarian can die of a heart attack at 55 or develop lung cancer without ever lighting up. Not everyone that ISN’T a vegetarian is unhealthy.

  • JenK

    I’m not a vegan, but we do eat vegan and/or vegetarian meals a few times a week.  To me, part of the challenges of a vegan diet is trying to replicate a meat-based diet.  Going vegan isn’t about finding ways to mash vegetables and grains to be identical to steaks and bacon; it’s about finding ways to enjoy vegetables and grains in their own right.  

    Before we started cutting out meat products, I equated vegetarian/vegan diets with eating salads all day.  There are some fantastic recipes that use tasty grains (my girls, 3 and 4, absolutely love quinoa, for instance) and beans that are not meat imitations.  One of my go-to recipes for vegan days is a savory lentil recipe.  We serve it over rice with a salad on the side, and it’s a very satisfying meal.

    I think we’ve all met the sad, attention-seeking vegan or vegetarian who looks plays the role of martyr.  But there are a few people who give a bad rap to any position or lifestyle, and I don’t think martyrdom is a feature of a vegan diet.  I’ve met plenty of people who follow a vegetarian/vegan diet, and I didn’t know that they were vegs because they didn’t make an announcement about it when we met.  It doesn’t have to be a big deal.

    Here’s my lentil recipe.  It takes about five minutes to prep, about 40 to cook.  Enjoy!

    Savory Lentils

    2 T extra virgin olive oil1/2 t curry powder1 t ground cumin1 cup lentils2-2/3 cup water1 can (14 oz) diced tomato with juice2 T dried minced onion1 T dried vegetable flakes 2 T dried parsleysalt and pepper to taste Simmer, covered, until liquid is gone, about 40 minutes.  Stir occasionally, and test lentils for doneness when liquid is almost gone.  If lentils aren’t tender, add more liquid and cook until gone.

  • Ddesmet

    Ok I’m not vegan but I LOVE this vegan recipe and one of my vegan friends was shocked when she tasted it, exclaiming “THIS IS VEGAN?!” I like to adapt recipies so I would suggest using more garlic and what ever spices you have on hand that could be substituted for parsley like Basil or if ypy are bold cilantro. 🙂 happy cooking!

  • Roberto

    finally an intelligent caller… 
    How could you possibly detoxify WITH meat, doctor?

  • Anonymous

    I have true being vegan twice, both tomes for a period of years. I read all the nutrition books, took the supplements, etc. Both times I grew weak, pallid, exhausted, depressed. On both attempts, I broke my veganism with a steak, all symptoms disappeared within an hour an I felt an incredible burst of energy an joy. Every ex vegan I know has had the same experience.

    • Vespaman

      ever tried to cleanse yourself? You cannot undo years of abuse by just  switching off the meat. Think of your sugar intake as well…

    • $5334007

      Better right than dead

  • Fantastic interview! Thank you Michael Krasny for having these amazing chefs on your show. I hope you can have them back again.

  • Amy707

    Colleen, your book 30-day challenge costs anywhere from $129 to $488 on Amazon. What’s with that?

    • NicoleMontroy

      Try the 21 day vegan kickstart, it’s free!

    •  It looks like it’s out of print. Not available on her site either. The high prices are due to 3rd party sellers price gouging and pricing algorithms going crazy. Her other books are fantastic and available.

    • Imgreen07

      Colleen can’t account for the errors you are finding on Amazon. I searched and found the books for $11, $9, etc..

  • guest

    Very interesting show; love the recipes. I eat meat and veggies – eat pretty much everything. My husband eats NO vegetables other than corn and the occasional tomato. No way can I get him to eat ANY green vegetable. It makes it challenging to prepare anything other than meat and/or pasta for dinner. However, soup with beans and some veggies are acceptable. 

    • BuildUpNotOut

       Wow, that’s terrible, but a diet that is shockingly common for many Americans. Plants need to be the largest portion of your diet. The fact that your husband eats none, and only corn (which we consume way too much of in the first place) and tomato (technically a fruit, and both sugary), is a recipe for disaster. For the sake of his health, I would hope he learns to eat some leafy greens and other super foods. It will only cause more problems as you age. I’m not a vegan, btw. But I eat a very small portion of meat in my diet.

  • Svaha Nirmanakaya

    We must put the protein myth to rest and stop perpetuating it.  We can get all of our protein needs in a plant based diet.  Michael Bluejay has a great resourcewith regard to protein which you can look up online if you really want to know more about the protein myth.  

    In Addition, human beings from a biological standpoint are entirely compatible with herbivores. From our jaw type, saliva, stomach type and acidity, the length of our small intestine, to our livers, kidneys, teeth and nails, in every instance human beings match with herbivores rather than carnivores and omnivores.

  • Angelica

    Thank you for the show. I am reluctant to become a vegan- I think I have Chicagoeasterneuropeansausageitis. However the milking of cows explanation regarding cruelty to these animals was a great argument to augment a milk-free diet and I appreciate the vim these ladies have for their craft. I will be vegetarian-ing for 30 days. I’m not sure I can cross over to full on vegan- I have a love of cheese so strong it is oppressive- but the rest I can do without.

  • Thanks for the show. Very timely and important info and the guests were really knowledgeable and articulate. I hope you’ll do more shows on veg eating in the future.

    Listeners who are interested in dipping their toes in the water should check out Oakland Veg Week which is April 15-21. They can take a pledge to be vegetarian or vegan, receive daily recipes and tips and attend events all week including a talk by Colleen. More info is at

  • Susan

    This idea that we all have a common physiology because we are human is very untrue and dangerous.  There is quite a variety in individual people’s bodies and physiological processes, and it cannot be assumed that one diet is right for all people. 

    The second misconception in this program is the statement that eating more food equals more energy.  Certain foods add to our energy level, and other foods can actually deplete our energy level because they take more energy to process than they give us.  This is a basic principle of muscle-testing, which is a tool people can use to determine which foods are best for their own particular body type.

    While these two women have clearly made a great contribution through their cookbooks for those who want to choose vegan diets,  they should not be representing themselves as health experts for all, which they clearly are not.

    • Roberto

      Who should we turn for information then? The USDA and their pyramid scheme (sponsored by the meat and dairy industry), or the medical industry heavily supported by the pharmaceutical corporations? The prevalent misconception that is supported by all fronts is that we need three square meals a day, and that fasting equals poverty or a danger to your health. I’m sorry but the so-caleld experts have become the new quacks and drug dealers.

    • Chrisco

      “This idea that we all have a common physiology because we are human is very untrue and dangerous.” Of course, it is the basis of modern medicine so in that respect it is hardly untrue or dangerous.

  • $5334007

    The Vegan misstatements abound and often are bound to the lipid fat fallacy, but there is really a single argument that blows the Vegan Myth to irrelevance ~ B-12. If it was a “natural” diet this vital nutrient would be available ~ it is not. This should end any discussion of vegan being natural.  

    •  You’re just wrong. The only reason that B12 is an issue is because we wash our vegetables and fruit and everything else so much that most of the bacteria are removed.

      • $5334007

        The point is that plants do not have B-12

        • I agree with you. However bacteria do produce B12 which is on our fruits on vegetables before we scrub them “clean”. I think humans from centuries past without running water probably didn’t wash their produce so much and would get plenty of B12. Supplementing is cheap and easy.

          • $5334007

            If you line up 1000 vegans who have been rigorous in only eating plant based foods you will find 1000 that are low to deficient in B-12. What may be even scarier is that, that would be using the US standards which are >180 when most of the world says >500 is needed. 

          • There are meat eaters that are B12 deficient, and vegetarians too. Vegans have the highest B12 deficiency and that is because we don’t eat meat (which eat unwashed vegetables) and wash our vegetables and fruits. B12 is naturally occurring but washing removes it. A VERY cheap supplement of B12 once a week and you’re done. This is much easier than taking statins, insulin, aspirin, etc every day for end stage omnivore diseases. I ate a lot of meat and dairy before but I made the change and am really happy I did it. I lost weight and feel great. All I’m saying is this is very doable.

          • $5334007

            The common analogs of B-12 are often cited by vegans as proof there are B-12s available via plant foods. They are very dangerous as they take up before bio active B12 and prevent it from being used by the body. Unwashed fruit and veg are useful only to the degree they leave bug and larva which do actually have a bit of useful B-12

        • Beth

           Nutritional yeast has B12

    • Sorenconrad

      B-12 is a bacteria, one that can be found on rotting flesh but that isn’t the only place it can be found.  The dirt has b-12 in it, like erik said, all the pesticides and washing(very unnatural) of the vegetables kills the b-12 on it.

  • Alma

    Thank you so much for this show!  Colleen is so inspiring.  I also enjoyed listening to Chloe.  Please have more shows about this very important topic.

  • Tom

    Stop whining about not getting enough protein or vitamins or nutrients or that vegan food doesn’t taste like the foods you love.
    Wah wah, I tried a vegan hot dog or some vegan cheese and as I expectd it tasted terribleStep up and be a man. You don’t have to match the American diet to eat as a vegetarian or vegan. Learn from long established non-animal cuisines that have developed good tasting and healthy foods– Indian and Chinese come easily to mind.

  • Lydia

    Great show, loved how both Colleen and Chloe fielded inquiries and contrasting opinions. Would love to hear more on this topic, or how about a regular visit on forum from Coleen? Bravo, thank you.

  • Kenyalopez

    Thank you for such a great show today.

  • Milena Esherick

    Thank you for the show! I think it would be helpful to have some vegan doctors and PhD dieticians explain the medical benefits of veganism and answer medical and dietary questions in more detail. I also think Colleen and Chloe should offer you and your staff a vegan taste test! Their foods are delicious! I especially love Colleen’s banana chocolate chip muffins! I also strongly recommend Encuentro in Oakland for a taste of delicious vegan cuisine.

    • $5334007

      There are no doctors or dietitians that can demonstrate that a vegan diet is inherently healthy. One vitamin says it all ~ B-12 

      • Beth

        Frazere site your proof. Fact is Dr Dean Ornish Dr John McDougall Dr Neal Barnard ALL are vegan and respected medical experts both within the medical community as well as with healtcare insurance folks who now cover preventative care which works and saves money.

        • $5334007

          The “proof” is multifold and self evident. All are vegans and all are Drs.

        • Racquelle

          Don’t bother with frazere, I’ve learned the lesson from many a forum. Whoever this person is, is not worth your time.

      • Kara

        Nutritional yeast is a plant-based source of B12.

      • john

         The fact that our bodies recycles b12 and holds on to the b12 so tenaciously(it can take ten or more years for a deficiency to show up) is actually an argument that we are nutritionally evolved to eat little or no animal foods!
         See this post from a former paleo:

        • $5334007

          In what universe? 

      • youdontknow whatyou thinkyoudo

        frazere, it would take you 5 minutes on the interwebs to discover that your strongly held beliefs about b12 mean nothing. Vegans know how to get b12. Many omnivores do not. You falsely believe that meat produced via today’s modern methods is providing appropriate amounts of b12 to omnivores—you’re mistaken. Your faulty beliefs make it easy for me to disregard ever other thing you’ve said here. You can get informed or you can continue to spout off non-facts that make it easy for folks who actually are informed to identify and move right past your ignorant comments.

        • $5334007

          Your answer provides all the information needed to prove my point. Vegans know how to get B-12 ~ they do! Take a supplement ie, an unnatural form of food. If veganism were a “natural” diet that humans ate evolutionary then …

        • Castaway

          My grass-fed meat is certainly providing me with enough B12.  1/2 lb of beef provides between 2 and 3 micrograms of B12, which meets the recommended daily allowances.  I eat liver, too, which gets you there much more quickly.  (Source:

  • Melissa

    Thank you so much for this show! Colleen’s podcast, Vegetarian Food for Thought (on iTunes) literally changed my life 2 summers ago. I have learned so much over these past two years and I have never regretted my decision to “live according to my values of compassion.” And if people get a sad because vegans are taking pride in living in accordance with their values, that’s not the vegans fault, that’s on them.  
     Frazere –  I would question how “natural” the industrial factory farms are. Or our ability to have a cheeseburger whenever we feel like it. Or the “pink slime” that is in those cheeseburgers. And B12 is bacteria based, not animal product based. 

    • $5334007

      I have never advocated Dairy or cheeseburgers, much less pink slime. There is only one way to get B-12 naturally and that is to eat meat. It can be grass fed and finished or it can be CAFO ~ I prefer the first and  in one piece ~ I like mine with a bone in it to let me know that I’m eating meat.

      • Karla

        Nutritional yeast.

        • $5334007

          A perfect vegan response ~ right down the middle. Depending on how much you cheat on your vegan diet you will severely and permantly impair your health in an undetermined number of years. As few as a couple as long as a dozen ~ since humans are all different.

          • Sara

            Please cite your sources.

          • Vegancouple

            I get my B-12 in my soy milk and/or in my supplements… biggie…..that is not a problem at all……

          • $5334007

            A perfect vegan response! Soy milk is not fit for human consumption so I guess it fits with the whole vegan reasoning. Goggle Soy Milk danger and you’ll never drink this industrial waste again unless you feel short of benzene and heavy metals.

        • Beth

          Karla is correct. Nutritional yeast products, and one 6 oz serving of fortified breakfast food
          provides 100% of the daily requirement.

  • sumnerd

    Veganism isn’t for everyone, although it could be in theory. I was mostly vegetarian and had chronic fatigue for 3.5 years before discovering that if I ate large amounts of red meat, I felt fine.  I tracked it down to the amino acid carnitine, which is typically made by each person in addition to being in food.  My body doesn’t regulate it or make it properly any more (it came on with pre-menopause).  Luckily, I can buy supplements which cure the problem almost as well as red meat.  Other, similar nutritional problems can be very specific to an individual and they can be very difficult to track down, as I did mine.  I strongly encourage people to experiment and find the diet that works for their best health.  

  • Roberto

    Who should we turn for information then? The USDA and their pyramid scheme (sponsored by the meat and dairy industry), or the medical industry heavily supported by the pharmaceutical corporations? The prevalent misconception that is supported by all fronts is that we need three square meals a day, and that fasting equals poverty or a danger to your health. I’m sorry but the so-caleld experts have become the new quacks and drug dealers.

  • Greeneyedbel

    I have noticed many people forget that we all eat “vegan” food…fruits, veggies, whole grains, nuts, and seeds. Since transitioning to a plant-based diet my food choices have only increased, definitely not been restricted. Thank you for highlighting this important topic and having these two intelligent and articulate women on your show!

  • Jordan

    I believe the world would be a better place if there were more vegans and also paleo eaters. I am a meat eater and I eat a paleo diet. I think your show should bring on a few people from the paleo side. One thing is for sure… the average American diet is terrible. We must eat oraganic, natural, sustainable, and un-processed foods. No more gluten, no more sugar, no more chemicals. The paleo lifestyle has changed my life and saved me.

  • Bonnie & Parke

    Thanks KQED for doing a show about veganism.  I hope you do more in the future – in fact it would be a perfect topic for Earth Day!

  • Sheri Cardo

    Really appreciated today’s show. THANK YOU!!!

  • Ewanning

    PLEASE rerun this show tonight — I just came in on the end and want myself and everybody else to hear the rest. And for anyone who thinks you can’t live on vegan food, check out True North Health in Santa Rosa, where people are daily recovering from deadly chronic conditions on a vegan diet, as well as fasting. 

    • Alice

      Most all the Forum shows are availalbe online to listen to anytime!  Go to the show page and click on Audio Archives – type into Search box…

  • Andrew U.

    Thanks for having Colleen on . . . great show!!

  • Jim in NC

    After surviving colon cancer at age 64 I gave up meat, eggs and dairy last year and have felt better than I have in 20 years. Colleen is a great spokesperson for this life changing way of eating.

  • We’ve had lots of interest in this segment – thanks to everyone who listened and commented! You’ll be able to find the audio here after noon pst today. You can also find KQED’s Forum as a podcast on iTunes and streaming on apps like Stitcher. Thanks again for listening!

  • Erin

    Michael – Thank you so much for doing this show with such amazing, intelligent women.  This is an essential topic with respect to sustainability and combating global warming.  More people need to hear how important and easy it is to make the switch.  

    As to your diabetes, I highly recommend you watch Simply Raw: Reversing Diabetes is 30 Days and get Dr. Garbriel Cousens book “Rainbow Green Live Food Cuisine”.  Type IIs get off meds in 1 week!  Type Is are also helped in a dramatic way.  I am following it and have so much energy and vitality, and no cravings!

    • john

       Depending on what they are eating now, Cousens (a raw food advocate) might not be the best choice as a source for treating diabetes on a plant based diet.  Better might be Neal Barnard, John McDougall, or Joel Fuhrmann.

      • Erin

        Not sure why you say the others might be better, Cousens results are dramatic. What could be better than getting off meds in 1 week?

        • john

          I meant for a newbie.  Someone new to eating a plant based diet and ate cooked food might be better suited to a Barnard, McDougal or Fuhrmann.  I think those doctors also report getting their patients off medications, or drastically reduced, in days.

  • Vegancouple

    my wife at 48 is winning open level tennis tournamentsin NorCal, competing with 19-25 yrs. old and also winning 5k and 10 k….she’s being vegan since 1999……..VEGAN POWER!!!!

    • kwfarmygirl

      GO VC GO!!! =)

  • Jim_OHara

    Colleen “converted” me to vegan after I heard her speak at Santa Rosa Junior College about a year ago.  63-year-old dog learns new tricks!

  • Hopefull

    I listen the Forum every morning I can and was delighted to hear a show dedicated to the vegan diet. As a vegan for over 20 years, I enjoy incredible health and the piece of mind that I am not contributing to animals suffering and am also helping curb global warming and other devastating environmental effects of animal agriculture. Thank you Michael for addressing this important issue who’s time has come- go vegan! 🙂

  • Bonnie & Parke

    If you enjoyed the Forum today, you’ll love this video of Colleen speaking at the 2011 World Vegetarian Festival in San Francisco:

  • Montana gal

    Moving to an enjoyable plant-based diet and usage of alternatives to animal products in clothing, etc., as much as possible is a most positive way to work with the world as is, not the world as it was.  What impressive speakers, with non-confrontational message. If you eat meat, enjoy the expanding world of wonderful plant-based foods and products, for your health, the animals sake and the planet.

  • Montana

    I’m glad that the last caller mentioned that the reason some people do not feel well when they switch to a plant-based diet is that they may be de-toxing.  That was certainly the case with me – I did not feel well for the first few weeks, and if I had not had the guidance of a good vegan friend and resources like Colleen’s podcast I may not have sticked with it.  After 5 weeks, my body changed and have been feeling great since then!  
    Many informed doctors recommend a vegan diet!  Check out the work of Dr. Neal Barnard, Dr. T Colin Campbell, Dr. Joel Furman, and Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn, just to name a few.

  • Scandifoodie

    Hello from Sydney, Australia! Thank you so much for featuring these two inspirational ladies in your show! Both Colleen and Chloe are perfect examples on how healthy and compassionate vegans can be. Thank you girls! 

  • sharpar

    I thought Michael did a wonderful job of really highlighting what amazing women these are.  After being vegetarian for years, Colleen helped me to become a “joyful vegan” as she says, and I have never looked back.  Her cookbooks are incredible for casual or formal dining…and not to mention the amazing baked goods from her Joy of Vegan Baking.  Thank you for featuring them!!  Can’t wait to check out Chloe’s cookbooks as well.  🙂

  • Veggiegirl

    Thank You! Being a vegan it is always nice when the word gets out!

  • Katrina

    Regarding the doctor’s call, I used to be very tired when I was an omnivore and was told by my doctor that I was slightly anemic and I had to watch my iron levels. I ate more meat and it didn’t help. Since going vegan 11 months ago, I have more energy than before! I never get those 3 pm gotta-take-a-nap moments I used to get as an omnivore. I never get stomach aches after big meals. I feel fantastic and am looking forward to getting my blood checked at my next physical. My mother-in-law noted the difference in my skin only one month after I went vegan, saying, “You have so much more color now! You’re just glowing!” I suggest the doctor read The China Study, as it has endless cited studies on how a vegan diet is a much healthier way to go. It’s worth a read!

    Thanks for the great show! Terrific guests! Hope to hear more like it!

    • $5334007

      Even the slightest bit of investigation will debunk most of the conclusions found in The China Study. If there were widespread sources of its ill founded conclusions I expect we would have all heard of them as well.

      • Katrina

        Have you heard of a place called Harvard University?

        • $5334007

          The further this study is examined (as was The China Study) the more it becomes a Framingham study ~ which as one drills down says exactly the opposite of what it is commonly and loudly trumpeted. Remember that Harvard is where all those folks that brought us the great financial ideas that have worked out so well.

  • Portland Listener

    Thank you SO much for having a show dedicated to the topic of veganism. You could not have had a better guest than Colleen Patrick-Goudreau.  She is inspiring, articulate and compassionate – definitely not the stereotype of an “angry” vegan.  And Chloe Coscarelli was a breath of fresh air.  It would be great if you could devote more air time to this incredibly important, interesting and timely topic.  Thank you!!!  

  • Bonnie & Parke

    Most doctors don’t know very much about nutrition… and doctors used to tell people to smoke to relax!    Have you seen those vintage cigarette ads featuring doctors?  Just wait, in a few years the Milk Moustache ads will be viewed in the same light.

    • $5334007

      Agreed and the milk mustaches do indeed foster the idiocy of dairy is good for you mentality. I do however want to make clear that the balance of the vegan mentality is as close to bankrupt as is possible and still be edible. If you choose for philosophical reasons to eat that way you are certainly welcome but based strictly on health it (veganism) is a disaster. The healthiest vegans/vegetarians are the ones that “cheat” the most. That should be an enlightening statement.

  • Caroline

    So pleased to see this on Forum! Thank you for a great show, please make more!

  • listener38

    This has been one of my favorite forum discussions- and I listen almost everyday.  I’ve always wanted to learn more about vegan cooking. Thanks!

  • It’s so heartening to hear Michael Krasny invite Chloe and Colleen on together to speak on the topic of veganism. 

    As a 10,000+ day vegan, inspired by my SFSU Botany classes in ’79, I can attest my life’s challenges became fun educational experiences. I’m amazed at the number of friends this year that are seeking out my vegan knowledge and advice. It’s as if a big idea light bulb has been turned on. More and more people are becoming curious and willing to exchange old habits for new habits.

    We love every one of your Forums Michael but this has to rise to one of the top ten best. You have a way of choosing the vegan coconut ‘creme de la creme! Thank you Chloe and Colleen for your vital energy and inspiration and clarity of thought. 

  • $5334007

    This has been interesting to see the volume of vegan posts but since I find the concepts unhelpful I would point the adherents to “The Vegetarian Myth” written by a woman who forced herself to eat such a diet for years and now realizes that her unresolved health problems are directly related to her damaging diet. There are also very interesting thoughts on how vegetarians promote the monocot agricultural/industrial farming that has destroyed thousands of sq miles of habitat for what? GMO soy? Vegan/vegetarian culture is a disaster just as the Standard American Diet is a disaster. Vegans and I do agree that CAFO’s should be abolished but for vary different reasons. Grasslands should feed our livestock directly. Dairy is dangerous. Let us return to the ways of our ancestors that ate no Dairy, Beans, Grains, Sugar or industrial vegetable oils ~ what’s left will make you healthy!  

  • Imgreen07

    I’ve been vegan since 1997.  I was vegetarian for a couple decades before that, and on & off, relapsed to eating meat and/or dairy.  When I finally went vegan, I felt the healthiest I’d been my entire life.  My allergies nearly disappeared, the colitis I had disappeared, and I lost weight.  I didn’t know the environmental and moral concerns at the time, I did it for my health.  Now that I know the impact the meat and dairy industry has on the environment, and the reality of cruel and torturous life of animals slaughtered for human “enjoyment”, I would never consider reverting to eating meat or dairy.  We have so many choices, and many of the vegans I know eat VERY well.  It’s an adjustment, but it’s so worth it.  

  • BuildUpNotOut

    I find a large hole in the argument coming from Colleen and the other compassionate vegans. (And yes, she does come off as very “holier than thou.”) That being, you CAN compassionately raise an animal and eat their produce and/or meat once they die. You’re telling me if i have 3 or 4 chickens in my backyard or large property, they roam free range and are kept safe and well-fed and I treat them as well as my house pet, eating the eggs they produce is not compassionate? That’s somehow wrong? Likewise, if I have a cow that lives on my large property, grazes on pasture and lives a natural life roaming the hills, lounging in the shade, kept warm at night, I can’t drink its milk every once in a while? Or if it dies from old age, I shouldn’t harvest its meat and eat it? That would not be compassionate? If I have a goat as a pet I can’t drink the milk it produces or make cheese from its milk? I’m not talking about milking for the sake of milking, but only infrequently when she actually produces and needs to lactate. I can’t eat a pig if he/she dies of old age?

    What about meal worms or other insects? What if they are raised naturally and die naturally.. we can’t eat those either?

    It’s not about whether or not we eat animal protein, it’s about HOW those animals live their lives and HOW that protein/meat is acquired.

    I am vehemently against factory farming, high-density feed lots, cages, hormones, antibiotics, machine-milking, killing young animals, etc.. But where I disagree with vegans is their totalitarian stance on NO animal protein of ANY kind no matter HOW it was acquired. If an animal dies naturally, we still can’t eat it? If a pet goat or cow has swollen utters we shouldn’t milk them or consume the milk? If I have a pet chicken that produces an egg every few days, I should just let that egg rot?

    “Eat real food. Not too much. Mostly plants.” – YES. Add to that natural, organic, free-range, long-lived, humane, and we have what humans evolved as – opportunistic omnivores. We have to be savvy consumers. We have to know where our food comes from. We have to support the good, and oppose the bad.

    • Erin

      Your concepts aren’t realistic.  You need to look at the entire life cycle of these animals.  How is it that the mammals came to be in your yard?  How is it that they are producing milk?  They had a baby and the baby was taken away from them which caused them much anxiety and sorrow.  But then again, if you want to eat roadkill or dead bugs from your yard, knock yourself out!

      • utera

        And I’m sure the money you spend on university tuition for your own children could feed a thousand starving africans.   Do I care less about the ant that gets stepped on than anything else? Yes, so lets stop kidding ourselves, prey animals/live stock are bred for their purpose, they wouldn’t be alive but for the fact that they are useful to us.

        You seem to care an inordinate amount about things that do not matter, the sorrow and loss from taking an animals baby? How about the sorrow and loss of say women or homosexuals in afganistan because you are more than happy to throw them to the wolves. You see how that works…its hard to be so sanctimonious about things that have actual heavy costs to bear. A lot of this veganism is false moral superiority at minimal effort.

      • BuildUpNotOut

        I find the circles of logic vegans have to run around in order to rebuke points like the ones I made rather amusing.

        How did they come to be in my yard? Maybe I rescued them, maybe it is a family ranch that has been in my family for generations and the animals there perpetuate themselves, maybe I stole them from a factory farm to save them.

        How are they producing milk? Because they’re alive. Cows and goats don’t need to have babies to produce milk – please educate yourself. Certainly not at any incredible rate, but they will still produce a small amount, without hormones, if raised well and in the right environment.

        Besides that – what if they have a baby and they aren’t taken away? What if they can raise the baby themselves as I keep them together? I’m sure you’ll think of a reason how that is wrong as well.

        What your argument sounds like is a good excuse to ban pet cats and dogs – since obviously kittens and puppies are taken away from their mothers at the cost of much anxiety and sorrow.

        My concepts aren’t realistic? Then what should we consider your concepts? You are basically arguing for the extinction of all domesticated animals, that even if an animal is raised humanely and treated better than a household cat or dog, you can’t eat anything it produces or consume its meat if it dies naturally of old age? No one should own chickens as pets, and certainly not eat their eggs even if they lay them constantly and will go to waste otherwise. That is what is unrealistic.

        Look, there are all kinds of holes in your arguments, no matter how “unrealistic,” they’re still holes. Why can’t you just address them and say “Yes, fine, it’s okay to eat an egg or milk or meat in that very specific situation”?  You just can’t do it, because the bottom line is you just don’t want anyone to eat anything from any animal ever, period.

        • Imgreen07

          Please know that just like omnivores, not all vegans think and act alike.  Just because someone suggests you are wrong in your practices, doesn’t mean all vegans feel that way.  Ultimately, it’s your choice, and personally, if you care for your animals as you do a pet dog or cat, then it sounds like the best arrangement for the animals and for you.

  • Imgreen07

    This information and studies about what’s wrong with milk are out there.  This is a short (2 minute) report:

  • JNAHendrix

    Greetings from Japan! This show was brilliant, I’ve been an avid listener of Colleen’s podcasts since July 2008 (and a vegan since then), and I was pleased to hear her on the air. I enjoyed the public’s questions/comments on the issue, and the banter they inspired. This topic is one that can’t be readily addressed in just one hour-long segment, however I felt that your approach to the topic Michael (as a polite omnivore) was respectful, interesting, and commendable. You hear meat-eaters compalin often about the “angry vegans” they encounter; you have proven that though this issue creates “angry meat-eaters”, you certainly aren’t one of them. Thank you, I look forward to any future shows on this topic! 

  • Imgreen07

    Don’t take it from a vegan.  Read this: “I didn’t get into this to focus on animal issues,” he told me, “but my own relationship to eating meat has been transformed, and I now forgo it altogether. It’s just not worth the pleasure when you know the system.”

  • Jackienilan

    I started a vegan diet, after reading “Forks over Knives” and” Dr. Neil Barnard’s Program for reversing Diabetes”  in October 2011.
    Colleen and Chloe are right-it changes your palate and you can taste  more intensively. I have lost weight and have more energy.
    Vegan is the way to go.

  • Adi Tzur

    Thank you for hosting Colleen at your show. She inspires me in so many ways to become a better advocate for animals and to realize that the goal is having a world of kindness and compassion, and veganism is just the most comprehensive, direct and easy way to achieve it. Her Vegan Daily Companion book is wonderful, among all the other great things she does and speak.

  • lauren

    Colleen’s articulate, informative, and inspirational podcast convinced me to transition from vegetarianism to veganism.  I have been waiting for NPR to address this topic– it sounds like Colleen has as well. 

    Please, please, please develop more shows about plant based diets!

    Thank you to Colleen and Chloe for being wonderful spokespeople for an important issue. 

  • Sandy

    The most notable change I saw when I experiemented with going vegan for 6 months was my “normally” high triglyceride levels (due to family history) went right down to normal levels!  Although I switched to a ovo-pescetarian diet, my triglycerides are still healthy.  I love all of the vegan choices available (veganaise, miso spread, etc.) and buy those items in the store. Lots of delicious choices!

  • utera

    The caller that said that we aren’t true omnivores is wrong.  Any animal that subsists on greens has to spend most of its waking hours chewing, even the great apes have to do this for hours to get enough nutrition from uncooked food to just get by, and even they are opportunistic predators.  To handle this level of chewing teeth have to be quite large and robust, we aren’t herbivores that is for sure.

    A humorous take on it.

    I don’t have a problem with eating how you like, I do however have a problem when people get sanctimonious about it.

    • Imgreen07

      Sanctimony is no fun, but neither is the way animals are treated on factory farms.  Some of us are just plain doing what we feel is right for our ourselves.  Anyone can be preachy or elitist, no matter what they eat, or their religion, income level, etc..

  • Sarah

    What a great show! Thank you for focusing on vegan eating-  it was enlightening!


    On February 6th, our awesome local vegan store, Never Felt Better
    hosted their first cooking competiton, a chili cookoff, and guess
    what?  WE WON FIRST PRIZE!  Here’s the recipe we’ve developed. It’s a
    bit of work, but worth the effort. I hope you enjoy it too! Makes a
    GIANT freaking pot o’chili.

     3 cups dry black beans, cooked in a 2qt crockpot full of water
    for 8 hours (this will be added, liquid and all, so don’t drain them)
     2 cups cooked short grain brown rice
     2 tsps olive oil
     1 diced onion
     2 diced poblano chili peppers
     3 tbsp chili powder        
     3 tbsp cumin powder
     1 12 oz bottle hard cider (apple or pear)
     1 6 oz can tomato paste
     1 28 oz can diced tomatoes
     1 lb frozen corn
     1 tbsp cocoa powder
     1/2 tsp chipotle powder
     1/4 tsp cinnamon
     1/4 tsp vanilla extract
     1/4 cup toasted unsalted pumpkin seeds (if you can’t find unsalted
    ones, start with raw ones and toast them yourself, which is what we do,
    or add less extra salt) coarsely ground
     6 (or more) cloves of garlic, crushed
     1 very large butternut squash, peeled, seeded, diced and roasted at 425 for about 45 minutes, until edges start to caramelize
     1/2 tsp molasses
     1 tsp sea salt


    Saute onion and peppers in olive oil until onion is translucent. Add
    cumin and chili powder, saute until liquid is absorbed by the spices.
    Add the cider, chipotle powder, cocoa powder, vanilla, cinnamon, ground
    pumpkin seeds, and molasses. Bring to a simmer. Add canned tomatoes (do
    not drain) and liquid, and tomato paste. Stir in the beans, squash,
    rice, corn, garlic, and salt. Simmer for 30 minutes. Serve immediately,
    or refrigerate for 12-48 hours and reheat, which lets the flavors meld
    and improves them. Really great with lime juice, chipotle Tabasco, Daiya
    cheese, diced onion, avocado, toasted pumpkin seeds, faux sour cream,
    or just as is. 

  • StephanieB

    I am so glad you invited Colleen and Chloe on your show (which is long overdue).  I have taken a cooking class with Colleen and own several of her vegan cookbook’s and can vouch for the health benefits of a vegan lifestyle.  I look forward to adding Chloe’s cookbook to my growing collection.

  • jory

    Fantastic guests.  THANK YOU Michael for exploring such an important issue.  I was wondering for the doctor who called in, with her emphasis on so called vegan or veg patient, whether she would acknowledge that the highest percentage of illnesses comes in the patient base of those who eat the ‘standard american diet’ and that the highest percentage of healthfulness is found in the base of those who eat a plant based diet?  Would be very worthwhile to have two positions from the medical community speaking to this issue.  Although for me, kindness towards all others with whom we inhabit this earth, trumps all. 

  • Natalie

    Thank you so much for doing this show!  I’ve been vegan nearly 2 years.  Yesterday afternoon my omnivore boyfriend and I listened to the mp3 recording together and we both really enjoyed it.  I just wish Colleen and Chloe had more time to really delve into the various issues that came up.  I respect both of these women a great deal. 🙂 In regards to the doctor who called in and spoke about the various health issues she’s seen in vegans and vegetarians, I got to thinking about a blog post I read on The Vegan RD about people using the veg*n label as a more socially acceptable way to control their food intake.

  • Alice

    Great show.  Very informative, helpful.  Would love more shows on this order please!!

  • Kirsten_kruse_sf

    Can KQED do a little investigative journalism and find out if that sad tale of dairy cows being kept pregnant just so they give milk is really true?  I have heard this from other vegan friends – that dairy cows need to be pregnant to give milk, and then the boy calves become veal and the girl calves become more sad dairy cows.  Really?  I mean, women can keep breastfeeding for years.  Can’t cows just be milked by humans and keep giving milk?  And couldn’t that be done in humane conditions?

    • Cow’s milk is for cow’s babies

      Kristen, you could do that investigating yourself. It’s a simple fact that won’t take more than a few minutes to locate reliable sources for confirmation.

      • Kirsten_kruse_sf

         Uhm, it’s Kirsten not Kristen. That response really wasn’t helpful.  Of course I googled this and all the vegan websites say one thing, and all others say they have to have one calf, then you just keep milking them.  I’d like to know the truth and I trust KQED. 

  • Peggy

    Thank you for airing this topic!  And thanks for having these wonderful guests to discuss this subject!

  • There is a tidal wave of consciousness sweeping across the land. Here are two uplifting videos to help everyone understand why so many people are making this life affirming choice to become vegan: and

  • Check out my amazing recipe for Vegan “Hostess” Cupcakes.

  • Ashley

    Thank you Michael for having Colleen!

  • Gretchen

    Loved this episode. Thank you!

  • kris

    No one thought that myself – working for years in high end restaurants in a ‘beef city’ – would ever give up my favorite foods, most notably rare and raw meats and fish, a variety of cheeses and anything with butter. In denial for years to learn more about what meat does for our bodies and the environment, I told vegetarians to do what they wanted and I’d do what I wanted (kindly but still). But then a couple of years ago I found myself incorporating more and more plant foods and found myself vegetarian. Whoa! How’d that happen. Ok but a few months later I had a conversation with another vegetarian. Him:”would you ever go vegan”, me: “no way”. Then I found Colleen’s podcast. 5 months after that conversation I was vegan. And never happier. I have felt all the benefits of changing my diet and my lifestyle and have NEVER felt like I’ve given up anything. Colleen’s podcasts have answered every question and made my journey – despite being in a fairly veg un-friendly city – easy and empowering. I’m so happy to see both Colleen and Chloe’s success and am really pleased that tv and radio has picked up their work. There’s no way that either one of them (or any vegan chef or author) would go very far if their food didn’t speak for itself. Thank you to KQED for a great show!

  • Racquelle

    Totally agree!

  • Pjrobinson3

    Thank you for your program on vegan cooking. Colleen Patrick-Goudreau especially was so knowledgeable about vegan issues, I would love the opportunity to hear more from her. Would you please consider having her on again?

  • Greenbluegray

    I was vegetarian for 20 years and found Colleen’s cookbook The Vegan Table as I was transition to vegan.  I thought it would be hard, but there are so many great cookbooks out now (after College set the standard), that even a non-cook like me with a little common sense can eat savory gourmet healthy foods very easily and cheaply.  My library has these types of vegan cookbooks: cupcakes, baking, Italian, African, soul food, Caribbean, Latino, party, slow cooker, quick fix, Indian, spicy, and many more.  We are living in a wonderful time of food choice.

  • tartmuffinsmom

    This comment didn’t seem to show up as a reply to the person that said they were raised on a dairy farm.
    What did you do with the male calves?  What did you do with the cows when their production dropped?  I assume you didn’t have a diary that was a sanctuary.

  • Guest

    The doctor who calls in (at about 40 mins) says that she sees some vegan patients with deficiencies. Likely, she also sees meat-eaters who come in with deficiencies too, although perhaps it’s not as memorable to her since meat eating is congruent with her beliefs. 

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