A group of Republican students at UC Berkeley is under fire for plans to hold a bake sale where the cost of a cookie is based on the race of the person buying. The group says it’s meant as a satire of legislation that would allow California universities to consider race and gender in college admissions. What is and isn’t offensive in political commentary? And who should get to decide?

Andy Nevis, executive director of the Berkeley College Republicans, the club hosting the bake sale
Vishalli Loomba, president of the Associated Students of the University of California (ASUC)

  • Paul

    When political correctness is shown to be overtly racist and sexist, how could defenders of that racism and sexism even show their faces in public, let alone dare to defend their bigoted stance? Their willingness to do so really indicates that what Americans call liberalism has reached its historical end as it is no longer about open-mindedness and fairness but actually the opposite concepts.

    • John94117

      Are you off your meds? What are you talking about?

    • lovejoy89

      If you can’t take the heat get out of the kitchen. This is free speech so stop whining and stand up for what you believe. Stop trying to label opposing views as political correctness. They wanted to be provocative and they got the attention, so suck it up. Show me how the white male is suffering in this society. Who stole your money and your power?

      • G.R.

        If that’s really the way you think, why do you believe that it is acceptable for those who support Affirmative Action to label those they disagree with as racists?

  • Kim from sf

    I think this conversation is great. How many town halls can we have without getting anywhere? BCR is getting the attention of people who wouldn’t have thought twice about attending a town hall- I’m assuming that’s the point?

    • lovejoy89

      It’s easy to sit in the comfort of your home and say what you think because you are anonymous, it’s another thing to stand up in front of real people and state how you feel about this issue. 

  • guest

    They should also have a sale where all the white men are given the cookies for free.

    • lovejoy89

      They made the cookies.

      • Hello

        but the flour, eggs, and butter were stolen

  • Thamilton

    While I’m no fan of republicans, I think this was a great commentary on a highly problematic bill. Viva la meritocracy!

  • Angela from Redwood City

    I am decidedly liberal and I believe that campuses should be able to consider the entire person in making admissions decisions, but the protestors of the bake sale are coming off as whiny and wimpy.  So what if the Republicans want to host a ridiculous event in the name of free speech?  Rather than complaining about being hurt and threatening charter revocation, host a competing bake sale and show them where Berkeley support truly lies.  Surround the bakesale with picket signs (more free speech).  Or better yet, ignore them entirely.  All of this attention is giving the Republican position more credence than it is due.

    • DanielDanielson

      I would definitely ignore it. Let them have all their cupcakes.

    • lovejoy89

      Free speech means you get to say what you want and I get to say what I want.

    • Gest

      Sale those cocky in Republican Convention.

  • Venus

    I think the bake sale is provocative, creative, and a very effective and consistent way to highlight opposition to 185. People need to stop being such cry babies.
    2005 Cal graduate and die hard liberal.

  • David

    These “progressive” young folks have lost their sense of humor and proportion. Thinking back to the Free Speech Movement, it seems to me that a few folks felt “disrespected” too. Apparently free speech is only for progressives and not conservatives.

    These Young Republicans have done a great job of drawing attention to their issue and those complaining of their great hurt have aided them greatly.

  • Sam

    Pshaw. They are just cookies! Anyone who feels hurt or offended by such obvious satire should not be attending a college such as Berkeley.

    It sounds that some students are actually upset that other students on campus are against SB 185. However squelching that opinion (by trying to shut down the bake sale) is also unworthy of Berkeley students.

  • Sam Badger

    I remember that the college republicans at Foothill had a similar event in the middle of the last decade. It was foolish and offensive, but it didn’t achieve anything and barely anybody took any notice. Its irrelevance was its ultimate downfall, and there was no need to organize against it because nobody really cared.

    Ultimately the biggest problem is in their naive and shallow view of racism, as evidenced by how their “price structure” works and the deep historical ignorance behind their opposition to considering one’s social and economic background in education

  • Vishalli is missing the point. The republicans are making an abstract issue (affirmative action) real and tangible for the rest of the community. It doesn’t have to be a perfect analogy and we don’t have to agree with it, but we can’t get mad at them for sharing their opinion and making a point. What ever happened to the Berkeley spirit?

    • J Cole

      I think the idea might serve as a good rhetorical point or thought problem and should be used as such. However, to put such a bake sale on is simply to stage a racist encounter and places those minorities in an awkward and uncomfortable position. Nevertheless, I believe it is important that the campus Republicans raise this issue, because with budget cuts’ impacts on enrollment at the University, this issue is ever more salient.  I just wish it could have been put forward differently.

  • Dave in San Carlos

    This is actually a very constructive conversation.  What both the bake sale and the proposed legislation attempt to do is give a “break” to individuals based on race or gender.  While that could be called racist, it could also be called an appropriate accomodation to address structural realities in our society.  I don’t know earning stats based on race but women still DO get paid less on average for the same job.  The question really is what should we do about it?  Do we ease the journey for the disadvantaged or seek to get rid of the injustice as the first priority?

    • G.R.

      So instead of trying to solve the root of the problem, we should just let less qualified people into colleges because of the color of their skin?

  • Ehkzu

    Vishalli Loomba’s hyperbolic rhetoric against the bake sale–even stating that students would be afraid to go to classes because there were racists on campus–is precisely the kind of behavior she and her ilk are accusing the other side of indulging in: stereotyping. That’s what calling anyone who objects to race-based admissions a racist is, exactly.

    And this highlights the self-blindness ideologues of both sides portray.

    It also demonstrates the kind of behavior that has pushed many centrists into the eager arms of the Republicans.

    It’s juvenile name-calling.

  • I’ll agree that the bake sale is free speech and I welcome the opportunity we all have to state publicly how abhorrent the message is.

    And, as Michael said, this is nothing new.  Conservatives have done this throughout this country’s history.  I recall a KQED perspective in which an African American welcomed Walmart and other superstores for charging the same published price to everyone regardless of race.

    So, kudos to Mr. Lewis for showing the Republicans’ true colors — loving states’ rights for racial segregation and hating states’ rights for medical cannabis and same-sex marriage.

  • campfiregirl

    The irony of the bake sale is that it proves that racism exists. If you renamed the prices as say salaries for the same job you would get a reasonable approximation of what happens in the marketplace.

    • Joe

      Did it really take the publicity of this bake sale to inform you that racism exists?  I’m not sure that you understand the difference between proof and evidence.

      Further, the bake sale isn’t news.  The same “demonstration bake sale” takes place on all major college campuses at least once each semester.  

      The Forum producers must have picked this topic over “you call in and tell us what you, the listeners, think about topic X.”  Wherein Michael fields and bunch of semi-literate callers and tries to form their disorganized statements into clear thoughts.

      • lovejoy89

        So anyone who disagrees with the Republicans has to be semiliterate right?

        • Sam

          Probably not, but they seem to be the only ones who are posting here.

        • Joe

          Have you heard any of the Forum programs where they just pick a topic and let people call in without having any guests?  

          Do you not understand that my statement was completely politically agnostic?

          Not every discussion has to be a political game of name-calling.  

          • Joe

            I guess I should have clarified the dichotomy of having either a Forum program about something that’s not an issue (such as this one), or one where they pick an issue, have no guests, and Michael just takes calls.

            It’s quite clear that many of you don’t listen to this show regularly and got fired up about racism and decided to post about it on the internet.

      • lovejoy89

        Not If but Why does racism still exist? What can we do as a society to eliminate racism. The first place to start is with self.

  • ZRS

    It seems that the root of the bakesale’s offensiveness is the pay structure, which lampoons the relative perceived hardship of various groups and by doing so dismisses them as frivolous. 

  • Mike

    If people don’t like the bake sale flyer then don’t go to it? It is indeed free speech also to just walk away too. The point of this is to engage students about a spurious bill going through the California Senate. I for one am glad that  race was not a consideration when I went to UC, of course it would be a lie to say that the school wasn’t predominately asian. Something to consider about the UC system.

  • Sam

    As Vishalli pointed out, women earn only 75% of what their male counterparts earn. How dare the bake sale organizers give them only a 25 cent discount!

  • Tom94107

    At the bake sale, how is the race of the customer determined?  Is it “self-declared”?  How will it be done for student applicants?  Personally, I think walking up to the counter, asking for a cookie, and having the price determined by my race is a very good exercise to put a complex issue in my face.  Bring it on!

    • Joe

      Have you ever been to one of these?  Nobody buys anything.  A bunch of college students stand around and bark about how things are either unfair or accuse each other of complaining too much.  

      Nothing is accomplished, nobody listens to each other, and the same thing happens the next semester.  

      • Tom94107

        Good point.  In fact I have not been to one of these things and can imagine it playing out exactly as you describe.  However, in terms of not accomplishing anything, it appears that it got the topic onto KQED and onto my radar…and maybe that of others.  Would that have happened without a “bake sale”?  Maybe; maybe not.  Seems like a creative tool to inspire discussion.  Certainly doesn’t seem like something that is going to scare anyone away because of racism.

        • Joe

          That’s my point, this isn’t really a good topic for Forum.  This same thing happens around the country on a bunch of different college campuses along with many other political actions that go unreported.  

          This seems like a “slow news day” kind of topic for Forum.  I understand the challenges of picking a topic though, you need something that will be current and apply to a wide verity of people around the bay.  If had a segment about something only affecting San Jose, the listeners in Oakland might be uninterested.

  • Sarah

    Yes, I’ll take the 25c off as a female, since I made 75c to 82c on every dollar my male counterpart made during my career.  Are the Republicans paying attention to that too?!

  • Dream2xscp

    This bake sale is sattire and regardless of whether or not you agree with the assertion the College Republicans are making you are doing yourself a disservice if your only reaction is to be offended.  Instead this should be viewed as an opportunity to have a dialogue with conservatives over what the policy should be for helping those in need of financial assistance with respects to the costs of higher education. 

    • lovejoy89

      It worked, people are talking about it so stop complaining when it’s a different point of view. Not everyone who disagrees is a liberal or a Democrat.

      • Sam

        Just as not everyone who agrees with it is a Republican or white male, a point you seem not to have noticed.

      • Dream2xscp

        Talking about it? Talking about what? What the College Republicans have done here is classic misdirection.  They have reframed the discussion in such a way that it is no longer about the issue at hand.  The issue at hand is financial assistance for the cost of eduacation.  The question should be what strategy should be implemented to help those in need to pay for higher education.  It should not be; is this bake sale rascist?  The bake sale is irrelevant; the high cost of and access to higher education is not.

        • Sam

          Yet another who has a strong opinion, but is not paying attention to the issue or the discussion.

          Is the bake sale racist?!? Who is saying that such a bake sale is not racist?

          The topic at hand (and homework assignment for you) is why is this bake sale racist, but SB 185 is not?

          You trivialize the bake sale as misdirection when you simply fail to even understand the point they are trying to make (and have stated quite clearly). Whether or not you agree with their point IS irrelevant, but at least you should understand it before you rail against it.

    • lovejoy89

      These students need action not dialogue. Those who have should contribute, talk is cheap.

  • me

    It is disingenuous for the Republicans to pretend they are against racism.  They are only against any structure that does not inherently continue favoritism for affluent white males.  

    • Guest

      That’s a pretty weak argument

      • Dream2xscp

        And this is no argument at all.  Thanks for the empty thought.

  • Tom Wilson

    If you want to counter-protest:  use arbitrage.  Get a bunch of students to buy the cookies at the low price.  Set up a new table that sells the cookies to anyone at the low price plus a 1 cent markup.  Drive them out of business (assuming their low price is below cost.)  I leave it to others to figure out the philosophical metaphor.

    • Avi Black

      Great! A perfect example of finding ways to challenge the message (whatever it is) rather than whine about it.

  • Stevv

    The argument against the bakesale fell flat as a pancake, and this liberal has to hand it to the CCR this time around.
    Bring back satire – when there is truth behind it, it stings.
    Especially stinging were the comments from Ms. Loomba that generalized the backgrounds of all people with skin of a certain color, in this case, white.
    Good show, and very telling.

  • The heart of the matter here is SB185. I don’t think race should be a consideration at all in college admissions. Minorities are often disadvantaged in college admissions, however their grades, extracurricular activities, etc. are often not as competitive because of their racial group’s socio-economic status. Kids who grow up in a poor household simply do not have the time or money to build their application for college (e.g. having to work instead of running for student government or lacking the money for SAT classes). SB185 should focus on the financial/economic situation of an applicant, not their race. How much money (which often comes with security, time, personal connections, or access to information on how to “succeed”) a teenager has access to is really what determines how good of an application that teenager can build up.

    • Guest

      I’m glad you’re referring to it as SB185. The actual bill IS the most important part and we should all be remembering that so we can call someone important (like Jerry Brown), and let our thoughts influence action. 

    • lovejoy89

      That’s a lot of responsibility to put on a kid. Try it and see how it works for you.

      • Sam

        You’ve completely misunderstood this post, lovejoy. As you seem to have missed the point of the entire discussion.

        • Joe

          hypothetical situation

          informed person: [Long statement about how biodiversity of farmed fish is important based on evidence with references]lovejoy89: “Oh yeah?  Well farms don’t have ponds.”

    • lovejoy89

      So how do we solve this problem NOW.

  • Linda Higueras

    This so-called satire is a slippery slope.  When my step-daughter rushed a sorority at UCLA, the first party was themed the “Leetle Seesters” party and they decorated the house with sarapes and barbed wire and guests were told to dress like wetbacks.  So much for enlightened youth at prestigious universities.

    • Sam

      That’s not a slippery slope. Where was the satire in that sorority’s theme and what political message were they trying to send?

      It is possible for one thing to be racist and another not to be racist (we don’t have to say that all things are racist or all are not).

  • Tyjcarter

    Whether the college Republicans are racist is irrelevant. They are practicing free speech, and apparently, the bake sale has been an effective piece of satire.

    I’m a progressive lefty, but I have to say, Vishalli Loomba was making no kind of argument: “it’s offensive” is not an argument. Maybe UC Berkeley needs to work on building more critical thinking skills.

  • DanielDanielson

    They claim it is a satire and political theater. Theater can be hurtful and divisive and proclaiming very different ideas.

    This action the young Republicans on campus are devising is nothing else but a big provocation. Even if it is not meant to ignite racial tension on campus, IT WILL.

    Perhaps, the smarter people will laugh or not show up, if they are really smart. The less smart category may take an offense and try to come back, say by making irresponsible remarks. It may ignite anything in this unstable for everyone but mostly for the low budget people time.

    I just do not see myself buying anything from them. It is like stepping in a piece of doo-doo. I would not allow that on a College campus as disruptive for educational activities and overall constructive and collaborative environment.

    Who wants to fight the legislation – THERE ARE POWERFUL WAYS TO DO THAT, besides offending other students.

    Why is it all the time something stinky is being brewed look for a big letter “R” nearby?

    • Sam

      You do know this is Berkeley, right?

  • Guest

    After the discussion on-air, I still can’t get a handle on why anyone is offended by this — are they simple minded enough to think that this bake sale is an illustration of real feelings about other students on campus?  It’s clearly an illustration of an opinion about a piece of legislation, and bravo to them for acting strongly enough to educate me about it. No offense to the lady representing the offended, but a phone bank won’t make radio news.

    Also….would people be making such a fuss if this event weren’t hosted by the campus Republicans, but any other group? Are they not the most automatically hated group on campus? Come on, be honest.  

  • lovejoy89

    This is about continuing white affirmative action. This is a public university supported by all the taxpayers in the state and should reflect that same diversity. Until california provides equal and quality education in all schools, some concessions have to be made. If you want to maintain the dominance for whites, go to Stanford or stop taxing the groups who are denied access because the educational system is flawed.

    • Sam

      No, this is about trying to shut down people who are protesting affirmative action (or improperly implemented affirmative action).

      Whether or not affirmative action is justified or even practical is a different issue. However it seems that even questioning it is a problem in some circles.

      • lovejoy89

        I welcome the discussion and you are entitled to your perception about what I wrote. I love free speech.

        • Sam

          So you say, but you don’t seem to bother to actually read (or comprehend) what others are saying.

          You just keep repeating (and rephrasing) two self-evident truths that nobody is disputing. 1) racism is bad, 2) white men have had it pretty darn good for most of history. Absolutely nothing on point, however.

  • jilld

    Indeed Vishalli is truly missing the point. All the outrage she is directing at the bakesale is what should be directed at the state bill – she’s fallen right into the trap.  She has decided to be purposely obtuse and ignore what is arguably a great analogy for what the bill proposes to do.

    How about we all come to terms with the fact that quantifying how much of an exception needs to be given for a person of a given race is itself racist? Where indeed does a white student from the low end of the socioeconomic scale stack up against a “minority” from the middle to upper ends of that scale?

    Anytime a white male engages in a discussion about race, the comments are immediately branded as racist. It would be a great control experiment to see how those same words would be perceived coming out of the mouth of a minority.

  • the next black

    The CCR has made it’s point in several ways. Not only are the Associated Students of the UC racist toward the white male students the AS of the UC apparently do not think the California College Republicans deserve to have an opinion.
    No one is argueing that there was a history of racism in the past. At this stage Americans should be trying to get rid of racism not transfer it to another group.

  • J. Law

    When did making someone “feel uncomfortable” become any kind of administrative issue for a University? When did being “offensive” become illegal? Wow, are we at the bottom of the slippery slope covered in mud so soon? Personally, I’m made uncomfortable and feel offended by the actions and words of others every day. It’s good for my blood. It makes me think. I guess I’m getting old.You used to need a better argument and the discipline to present it in order to confront ideas you might find repellent and to answer someone that offended you. Speaking as someone who leans toward Anarchistic solutions for social and cultural issues, it seems to me that in this instance, the young Republicans have the upper hand in the debate; they’re presenting their ideas clearly and intelligently – and I don’t often find myself siding with Republicans. I’m very disappointed each time I see “progressives” side with censorship. If history is any meter for judging controversy such as this, only openness and thoughtful, passionate debate has any chance of fomenting understanding. Once the mechanism(s) is(are) in place to censure ideas, these mechanisms will be used against YOU.
    Don’t do it. Have better ideas and present them more effectively…… That’s what they used to teach in University.

  • lovejoy89

    It’s easy to not be offended when it’s not about you. Republicans should stop playing the race card they claim to hate.

  • Avi Black

    As an educator committed to social justice: the two comments aired I’d focus on are (a) the one about how simplistic and poorly-drawn is the parallel made by the Republican students between the parameters of the bake sale and the historical realities behind unequal access to education (I completely agree), and (b) the one(s) that point out how the calls for the bake sale to be shut down because it is insensitive and “hurts people” are playing right into the hands of those Republican students. I agree with that as well. Using history as a guide to what works to challenge the systems that silently work to advantage the privileged, why not — instead of calling for more silence — work together to surface what is wrong about their argument? This is a “teachable moment”, in the parlance of education. Maybe have a race and gender-diverse group of those who strongly disagree buy up the stock at the various prices, resell them to anyone at a standard price ($2? $1.50?), and pool the profits to contribute to some kind of appropriate cause? I’m not sure what the right action would be to counter the point the Republican students are making, because I think the parallels they’re drawing are utterly specious and show a lack of understanding as much as insensitivity, but it’s worth the discussion — and would serve as a much more powerful counter to their action than simply yelling out “unfair!”, “insensitive!”, which never accomplishes much at all.

  • DanielDanielson

    There are 31 comments here, so far. A quick review proves the point. The issue is highly divisive. People take it VERY differently. I wish it goes well and no one gets hurt.

    I agree, though, that the argument of Ms. Loomba was weak. Obviously, the response to the stupidity has to be a smarter move.

  • Jess

    The College Republicans decisively use “shock-value” tactics to do just that, shock people. This allows them to shape the discussion to their advantage by portraying their opposers as irrational and over reacting. They tend to stage demonstrations, like stomping on Islamic flags, not as a way to open up dialogue as the BCR had stated, but to outrage specific communities, in this case all people of color and women. By having the specific intention to offend people with their bake sale, they are effectively shutting the doors to hosting a constructive dialogue about the issue at hand.

    • Guest

      Why would they attempt to outrage the specific community of “everyone on campus but the white, male, College Republicans?” 

      • Guest

        Please tell me you realize that anyone on campus that is not a “person of color” or a “woman” is a best a minority, and more likely just a margin. 

      • GetWithit

        If you read the entire comment, the answer is present. All you have to do is read.

    • Sam

      Berkeley liberal groups use the same shock value tactics, where do you think the CRs learned that trick?

      If the message underlying that shock tactic is valid it will stick, if not it will blow over. Rather than criticize the shock tactics, criticize those who overreact and bluster incoherently.

  • lovejoy89

    All you get is a short segment on radio without an in-depth discussion, so the Republicans have accomplished their mission.I propose that KQED hold a town hall meeting for 2 hours to allow a real discussion and not just sound bites.

    • Sam

      I propose opponents of the bake sale find someone more qualified or better prepared to make their case next time.

  • lovejoy89

    How are white males discriminated against if they are enrolled at UC, check out the minority enrollment at Boalt Hall after 209. This is about maintaining wealth for whites. Racism is not a thing of the past, this system perpetuates the same racism in denying access and equal opportunity for those who were denied the rights that you and your ancestors have benefitted from and continue to this day. If you cut off a man’s legs and then give him a prothesis, he’s still an amputee.

    • G.R.

       It’s not about any specific group being discriminated against. It’s about fairness and equality. Treating anyone differently because of the color of their skin is racist. SB 185 is a racist bill.

  • Denverddoll

    Appropriate that this is occurring during national Banned Books Week. 

    If we don’t believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don’t believe in it at all. – Noam Chomsky

  • lovejoy89

    If you use a cupcake to disguise a bomb, don’t be offended when people call you out.

  • Amit Otal

    I agree with California College Republicans on this issue coz this minor discrimation demonstarted by the Republicans have created so much turmoil in campus what if this becomes a law and is implemented all over california. I sincerely thank the Republican students for being creative in satiring this law. Another reason for my agreement is that I come from India and back home we don’t have meritocracy but we have this caste system based on which the seats in schools, jobs are divided and it sucks when I have to work so hard to reach somewhere and some one else who belongs to some lower caste reaches at the same position just coz he/she belongs to some lower sect in the society and his parents might be more rich than my parents. This caste system was one of driving force for me to come to US for higher education and live a good life for myself and my kids, but if we replace meritocracy with race system it won’t ve justified.
    – Amit
    San Jose State University.

  • After hearing this segment I find it shocking that the President of the ASUC was not able to able to speak or press her point of view with any eloquence. If this is any indication of the level of oral arguments among the Undergrads of our UC system then education in our state is truly in dire straits.

    • Sam

      I’m sure she is intelligent and normally quite eloquent.

      My guess is that she is surrounded by people who share her opinions and therefore unprepared (at times befuddled) when those opinions and assumptions are directly challenged.Something quite common among our politicians these days.

      • Then as the President of the Student Association she should have been better prepared. As she is representing the UC Berkeley Student Body on a “hot topic” issue.

        Her performance reminded me of an ill equipped high school tudent. Not of someone who attends one of the top schools in California.

        The Republican while not faring much better at least made cogent arguments. Her speech was peppered with “I think” and “like.”

  • lovejoy89

    So how do you propose to solve the inequality without having to give up your sense of entitlement?

  • lovejoy89

    Only when he’s whining about how unfair things are for him. Last time I checked the media, wall street, CEOs, congress, the Courts are dominated by white males so excuse me if I don’t feel your pain.

  • Ramv

    There was a question about pricing on the show. It seems to me that people are riled up because caucasians are charged $2 and there is native americans are charged $0.25 .. I was thinking would people be ok to it were reversed, i.e., native americans are charged $2 and caucasians are charged $0.25?

    • Sam

      No, people would not be okay with that, either. Even more would be opposed to that as that doesn’t seem to make any valid political statement at all.

  • orionc1

    Curious how the inclusion of race and gender with SB185 which would alter the prior Proposition that eliminated race and gender is causing such anger in those who see the need to get affirmative support for entrance to the UC system.  As a retired senior citizen manager of large groups of people I have seen some pretty silly graduates of UC who were affirmatively admitted.  These are people who were unable to calculate percentages and were unable to pass professional exams.  Let people get a higher education by merit rather than some perceived social stigma reward.  We have had decades of affirmation and the results has not resolved the social inequities.  Performance results is how people survive in the workplace.  Best to learn that early.

  • This Shawn Lewis guy is a typical Repugnican unaware of his own ingrained racism.  Of course he has the right to free speech for this bake sale.  He also has the right to be an ignoramus with the attention span of a Twitter post.  And that’s what his comment “all people should be treated equally” reveals about his position on institutional racism.  In his view, given that he regurgitates the same tired line of the right wing, the whole of human experience can be treated as an empirical measure of test scores (after all, test scores = qualifications, right? how else does one measure academics?). A study was done of the SAT test not too long ago showing that the questions themselves, especially in the analytical sections, are culturally biased toward middle to upper class white people.   That’s just one example of many of the “level playing field” white Republicans think already exists.  Admissions boards should be able to consider the entire messy whole we call a human being, and that includes race, gender, geography, economic district, etc.

    • G.R.

      Typical leftist bigotry. Anyone you disagree with is a “racist” yet you are the one who is supporting a system that would give preferential treatment to people based on the color of their skin.

      It would be hilarious if it wasn’t so pathetic.

      • G.R.,

        Silly goose.  No one said anything about preferential treatment.  Consideration != preferential.  You GOOPers are only capable of spouting party line, rather than independent , rational thought.  Your false indignation from being labelled a racist is an example..  

        • Sam

          In what world is consideration NOT preferential? If you’re looking at race you have tilted the balance, otherwise why look at it at all?

          If you’re going to be condescending at least try to be correct.

          • That’s the distorted world you Republicans live in… somehow looking at only the criteria you specify (test scores, grades) has not one shred of institutional racism or at least, discrimination, but when we suggest that we treat people as a whole, we’re completely skewed toward preferential treatment.  What’s it like to live in that binary world Republican’s live in?  

          • Sam

            You mean that binary world where everyone who disagrees with you is a Republican?

            You make so many assumptions and change the topic to suit you. It’s not worth trying to have a conversation with you.

          • A classic! Ye olde Republican reversal.  You know, accuse me of the same thing that I illustrated (soundly) about the offending position.  In fact, the same exact tactic being used by the Berkeley Republicans in relation to racism, essentially saying “aren’t you the real racists?”  The facile technique that appeals to the (bringing back to the top of my discussion) ignorami.  In terms of assuming you’re a Republican, well, walks like a duck, talks like a duck.  In terms of disagreements, I disagree with my wife all the time.  She’s not a Republican.

          • Sam

            You could have simply tried to make your point (the foundation of which I don’t disagree with), but instead you chose to verbally abuse all Republicans and anyone who agrees with even part of their position.

            As Jess pointed out, this shock-value tactic is in part deployed (by conservatives and liberals) to make their opponents froth at their mouths and look like idiots or assholes, thus pushing all the moderates into their open arms.

            Thank you for illustrating that so clearly. I haven’t even read SB 185, but I’m against it solely on the basis that the people who are for it seem to be such ignorant jerks.

          • We’ve tried peaceful means, we’ve tried rational discussion.  What we get is Rick Perry (dangerous lunatic) and the College Republicans (sadly misguided kids who think they are smarter than they are).  Republicans, and those who sympathize with their reprehensible views (you), require harsh treatment.   Appeasing racism, elitism, and religious dogma paves the road to hell.  “Moderates” if they truly are, should be just as outraged as liberals, and I completely reject the false equivalence of “both sides are responsible”.   The discussion was started by Republicans hence my focus on them as the target group for this whole misguided episode. 

          • Sam

            Replied above…

          • Sam

            How is that “harsh treatment” tactic working out for you? Might make you feel better, but it doesn’t help your cause.

            You once again fall into the binary mindset that you accuse “us Republicans” of having. It IS true that both sides are responsible and it doesn’t matter who started it. When the conservatives act like ignorant bullies it pushes moderates away and when liberals do the same it pushes them back. Whoever is the least dickish will come out ahead.

            It may be the so-called Repugnican you lambaste is as bad as you say, but on the program he was the best prepared and most reasonable sounding – however in this forum you look like another knee-jerk liberal who would rather hurl insults than make a solid case.

            So feel free to rant all you want on this topic, I don’t really care. But when it comes to issues I DO care about (abortion or Prop 8, for example) please shut the hell up. You’re not helping!

  • lovejoy89

    Nice to stay in your comfort zone and not have to deal with those other people. Unfortunately, this transfers to life after UC. Networks are built during your school years. It open doors to jobs and opportunities. Silicon Valley still lacks blacks and Latinos. We’d rather import staff from India. Look around you and see how many of your friends and family have no meaningful contact with blacks, latinos or American Indian. The church is still the most segregated institution in the United States. Each of these make a subtle but very strong statement about us as a nation.

    • orionc1

      “We’d rather import staff from India.”  is the policy of the US government w2ith work visas at the behest of the moguls of the silicon wafer society.  Cheaper labor is the reason and the result is reductions in US training in engineering and computer technology.  Not really a racist decision but a cheap labor decision which does not serve long term US interests.

  • Chemist150

    Basically racism is OK if it’s beneficial to the race although, it’s then racism to the first race trying not to be racist.  If selling cookies at different prices to different races is offensive, then it should be offensive that they let you in because your black but scored worse than a white because it’s OK that you’re not as bright, white people accept that. 

    Meet the entrance requirement based on merit or buy your cookie for a different price.  Makes sense to me.

  • Where was the ASUC when the Campus Antiwar Network was protesting military recruitment and creating a hostile environment for anyone who wore a uniform on campus. Which included UC Berkeley ROTC students?

    Campus Antiwar Network definitely made people students feel unwelcome on campus.

    Their condemnation shows a bigotry of the ASUC.

  • lovejoy89

    What’s your point?

  • G.R.

    Vishalli Loomba sounds like a moron.
    How on earth did she get into Cal?

    • LtKernelMustard

      You’d be surprised how many dumb valley girls get in at Cal. Phonies if there ever were any.

  • Guest

    Salih Muhammad chair of the Black Student Union was the counter protest leader who organized the militant style march onto Sproul Plaza. Salih is a proud member of the racist national organization the Nation of Islam.

    I wonder how many of the protesters are aware of this.

  • Greg from Oakland

    As a Hispanic, Democrat/Green Liberal here, I support the right of this group to sell these cupcakes.  I honestly don’t think that they realize how poorly this group is portraying itself – but let them dig their own grave.

    Using the same logic that this group is using, student athletes should be paid for eating a cupcake.  Right?

    I believe that the pricing is all wrong – the minority students should be paying higher prices for the cupcakes.  The cost of attending college for the family of a typical underrepresented student is propotionately higher than it is for an overrepresented one.  The same trend should continue with increased costs of cupcakes.

    • Sam

      Greg, your logic is faulty on a couple counts.

      Hispanics, for example, don’t pay proportionately higher for college (if that is true) because they are hispanic, but because they statistically earn less. A hispanic student pays the same proportion as a white student if their families’ economic status is the same (assuming no affirmative action). 

      But even then your price adjustment is poorly thought out. Even when that hispanic were given a discount that cupcake would still (by your own argument) be PROPORTIONATELY more expensive than the white student’s cupcake. If you charged more for the hispanic’s cupcake you’d be punishing him twice.

  • Gest

    Loomba’s responses epitomize the sort of lazy reasoning that prevails when  critical thinking and rational discourse are shunned in the name of political correctness.  Seriously, it sounded like the only phrases in her vocabulary were “that’s completely ridiculous” and “that’s offensive”…

  • utera

    Its perfectly fair for them to point out the absurdity of those who seek race and gender based admissions and assistance.  In these debates the issue of asians is always left out as inconvenient, they count as minorities only when it is useful to the left, otherwise they suffer discrimination as there are “too many” of them just as happened with the jews in the past.  

    • Sam

      Your comment only makes sense if you think the point of affirmative action is to help minorities, instead of helping those whose socio-economic conditions have statistically given them a much harder climb into education.

      So, by your logic, AA should also not be ignoring the left-handed minority.

      It’s only “inconvenient” if you’re debating this with morons or people who don’t understand the issue, which apparently you have been (up until now ;-).

      • utera

        If effect it is discriminating against asian americans, making it harder for them to get in by any standard.  What is inconvenient is that asians ARE a minority and an example of what can be done if hard work and merit are priorities rather than fixation on grievance.  In past forums there was even a show where a hispanic and black guest on this issue spent the entire show talking about minorities in higher education, not once did any of them including the host mention asians, they literally danced around the elephant in the room.

        • Sam

          How does it discriminate against asians? If there were some quota system that limited the number of asians then that would be an issue, but AFAIK there is not. They compete on an even playing field with caucasians, for the most part.

          You again misuse the word “inconvenient.” The reason that affirmative action is extended to black-americans and not asian-americans is not because there is any genetic difference between the two races which causes one to be smarter or work harder. An ethnic asian dropped into a black family in a poor neighborhood will do poorly, an ethnic black dropped into a middle class asian family will do well.

          If it weren’t for accidents of geography and history the roles of asians and blacks in this country might be reversed, but they’re not.

          You may want to use your wish machine to give black-americans the same culture which encourages education and give them the same amount of wealth as asian families, but until then it’s pretty cold to blame the kids for the situation they find themselves in.

          • utera

            The effect of quota is to effectively raise the bar against asians.  It doesn’t matter if the culture is the factor, because that is never brought up by folks who push for quotas because blame must remain external to communities.  Just by sat scores alone it shows asians are being redlined by such racist policies.
            “Princeton sociologist Thomas Espenshade, who reviewed data from 10 elite colleges, writes in “No Longer Separate, Not Yet Equal’’ that Asian applicants typically need an extra 140 points to compete with white students. In fact, according to Princeton lecturer Russell Nieli, there may be an “Asian ceiling’’ at Princeton, a number above which the admissions office refuses to venture.”

          • Sam

            You are talking about two different things.

            Affirmative action, which seeks to alleviate the effects of a history of discrimination, is not the reason why Asians may or may not be discriminated against in upper tier colleges.

            Using race to ensure a more “diverse” student body is a different matter, if that’s what is going on here.

            You can have one without the other and they shouldn’t be muddled.

  • What is the price for those who fall into more than one category? What would a Black — excuse me, African American female pay? What would a Chinese-Mexican pay?

    • Sam

      African American female: $0.50
      Chinese Mexican male: $1.10

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