BD Wong on Coming Out in Hollywood and the Power in Being Yourself
DeRay Mckesson on Black Lives Matter, the X-Men and That Blue Vest
Pump Up the Volume: With 'Shrill,' Lindy West Drowns Out the Trolls
Mike Tyson on Working with Spike Lee and Beating His Fiercest Opponent, Self Hate
Jim Rash and Nat Faxon on The Way, Way Back
Getting the Dirt on Our "Dirty Wars" Abroad
Peaches On Her New Film, Rock Opera and Going All the Way
Video Exclusive: An Interview with Lauren Conrad
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He is a regular contributor to The Bold Italic and the San Francisco Chronicle's Style section.","avatar":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/dbf4e1ca0ae547c324ab218b5b01c466?s=600&d=blank&r=g","twitter":"velvetgoldminer","facebook":null,"instagram":null,"linkedin":null,"sites":[{"site":"pop","roles":["contributor"]}],"headData":{"title":"Tony Bravo | KQED","description":null,"ogImgSrc":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/dbf4e1ca0ae547c324ab218b5b01c466?s=600&d=blank&r=g","twImgSrc":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/dbf4e1ca0ae547c324ab218b5b01c466?s=600&d=blank&r=g"},"isLoading":false,"link":"/author/tonybravo"},"ginascialabba":{"type":"authors","id":"2451","meta":{"index":"authors_1591205172","id":"2451","found":true},"name":"Gina Scialabba","firstName":"Gina","lastName":"Scialabba","slug":"ginascialabba","email":"ginajournalist@gmail.com","display_author_email":false,"staff_mastheads":[],"title":null,"bio":"Gina Scialabba is a journalist and practicing attorney based in San Francisco. She's a regular contributor to KQED Pop and now Bay Area Bites. When she's not reading a novel, newspaper or watching Mad Men, Sons of Anarchy or Anthony Bourdain, she's taking advantage of the richness and diversity of Bay Area culinary life. She also loves to travel. Next Stop: Vietnam, Thailand and Korea.","avatar":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/e4df716be95aadc7807274c2405ccac8?s=600&d=blank&r=g","twitter":"Journalist_Gina","facebook":null,"instagram":null,"linkedin":null,"sites":[{"site":"pop","roles":["contributor"]},{"site":"bayareabites","roles":["contributor"]}],"headData":{"title":"Gina Scialabba | KQED","description":null,"ogImgSrc":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/e4df716be95aadc7807274c2405ccac8?s=600&d=blank&r=g","twImgSrc":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/e4df716be95aadc7807274c2405ccac8?s=600&d=blank&r=g"},"isLoading":false,"link":"/author/ginascialabba"}},"breakingNewsReducer":{},"campaignFinanceReducer":{},"firebase":{"requesting":{},"requested":{},"timestamps":{},"data":{},"ordered":{},"auth":{"isLoaded":false,"isEmpty":true},"authError":null,"profile":{"isLoaded":false,"isEmpty":true},"listeners":{"byId":{},"allIds":[]},"isInitializing":false,"errors":[]},"navBarReducer":{"navBarId":"arts","fullView":true,"showPlayer":false},"navMenuReducer":{"menus":[{"key":"menu1","items":[{"name":"News","link":"/","type":"title"},{"name":"Politics","link":"/politics"},{"name":"Science","link":"/science"},{"name":"Education","link":"/educationnews"},{"name":"Housing","link":"/housing"},{"name":"Immigration","link":"/immigration"},{"name":"Criminal Justice","link":"/criminaljustice"},{"name":"Silicon Valley","link":"/siliconvalley"},{"name":"Forum","link":"/forum"},{"name":"The California Report","link":"/californiareport"}]},{"key":"menu2","items":[{"name":"Arts & Culture","link":"/arts","type":"title"},{"name":"Critics’ Picks","link":"/thedolist"},{"name":"Cultural Commentary","link":"/artscommentary"},{"name":"Food & Drink","link":"/food"},{"name":"Bay Area Hip-Hop","link":"/bayareahiphop"},{"name":"Rebel Girls","link":"/rebelgirls"},{"name":"Arts Video","link":"/artsvideos"}]},{"key":"menu3","items":[{"name":"Podcasts","link":"/podcasts","type":"title"},{"name":"Bay Curious","link":"/podcasts/baycurious"},{"name":"Rightnowish","link":"/podcasts/rightnowish"},{"name":"The Bay","link":"/podcasts/thebay"},{"name":"On Our Watch","link":"/podcasts/onourwatch"},{"name":"Mindshift","link":"/podcasts/mindshift"},{"name":"Consider This","link":"/podcasts/considerthis"},{"name":"Political Breakdown","link":"/podcasts/politicalbreakdown"}]},{"key":"menu4","items":[{"name":"Live Radio","link":"/radio","type":"title"},{"name":"TV","link":"/tv","type":"title"},{"name":"Events","link":"/events","type":"title"},{"name":"For Educators","link":"/education","type":"title"},{"name":"Support KQED","link":"/support","type":"title"},{"name":"About","link":"/about","type":"title"},{"name":"Help Center","link":"https://kqed-helpcenter.kqed.org/s","type":"title"}]}]},"pagesReducer":{},"postsReducer":{"stream_live":{"type":"live","id":"stream_live","audioUrl":"https://streams.kqed.org/kqedradio","title":"Live Stream","excerpt":"Live Stream information currently unavailable.","link":"/radio","featImg":"","label":{"name":"KQED Live","link":"/"}},"stream_kqedNewscast":{"type":"posts","id":"stream_kqedNewscast","audioUrl":"https://www.kqed.org/.stream/anon/radio/RDnews/newscast.mp3?_=1","title":"KQED Newscast","featImg":"","label":{"name":"88.5 FM","link":"/"}},"pop_109742":{"type":"posts","id":"pop_109742","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"pop","id":"109742","score":null,"sort":[1551348876000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"bd-wong-on-coming-out-in-hollywood-and-the-power-in-being-yourself","title":"BD Wong on Coming Out in Hollywood and the Power in Being Yourself","publishDate":1551348876,"format":"audio","headTitle":"KQED Pop | KQED Arts","labelTerm":{"site":"pop"},"content":"\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This week, we are joined by a brilliant actor who’s been in—pardon my French—\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">a sh*t ton\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> of movies, television shows and theater productions. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Jurassic Park\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, ever heard of it? \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Law and Order: SVU\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, hello! \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mulan\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oz\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mr. Robot\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">M Butterfly and \u003ca href=\"https://www.act-sf.org/home/box_office/1819_season/the_great_leap.highResolutionDisplay.html\">A.C.T.'s The Great Leap\u003c/a>\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. The list goes on. Put some respect on his name: it’s BD Wong! \u003c/span>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch3>Interview Highlights\u003c/h3>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>On the power of starring on a popular show like \u003cem>Law & Order: SVU\u003c/em>:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"The most gratifying kind of fan interaction that you can have is 'I decided to be a forensic psychiatrist because I saw you in the show when I was very young, and I didn't know there was such a career opportunity.' ...That's why it's very important for television writers and television producers to be responsible about their content because it's reaching young people at a very impressionable time. When you realize that [television] actually influences people, it's an eye-opening kind of thing, which I love. I like understanding that something that we're doing isn't just reduced to its popularity but there's a little bit more to it.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>On how he felt about the \u003cem>Law & Order: SVU\u003c/em> writers revealing his character, Dr. George Huang, was gay right before he left the show:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003c/b>\"I had no idea throughout the time that I was doing the show for ten and a half years, so it felt a little cheap to me. I was also kind of torn because, you know, it's positive... But it did feel a little convenient or kind of lazy or, you know, kind of not particularly the best way that you want to come out as a character. It wasn't like Ellen coming out. It wasn't a great thing that was really impactful and funny or human or whatever; it was just kind of a minor point made.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>On how he came to accept his Asian-American and gay identities:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003c/b>\"I was watching television and I was going to movies, and there were no Asian people, and the gay people that were characterized weren't really particularly positive. So there was a kind of a double insult to me. It made me not want to be those things. I was kind of in denial about it. And this is a kind of denial that a lot of ethnic kids, specifically I think Asian American kids and some gay kids, have where they avoid the issue of the truth of them. And when you avoid that, it causes only problems for you and it takes you a long time to kind of untangle.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The thing that you think is going to kill you is actually the thing that enlivens you and drives you and pushes you forward. It's really actually an amazingly great feeling to be yourself. What a concept, right? And I think more people definitely know that now than they did before, although it's still a struggle for lots of people.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>On how \u003cem>Crazy Rich Asians\u003c/em> has or hasn't changed the Hollywood landscape:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003c/b>\"I think feeling positive about something that sometimes feels very despairing is a really good thing, like to take a break from the despair for a second. Let's just celebrate this thing for a minute.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I was around when \u003cem>The Joy Luck Club\u003c/em> came out, and there was no social media; people were less kind of rah-rah passionate about it. But Asian American people, to their credit, got really into this movie and that was really heartwarming and empowering because I've always said, in my career, to Asian American audiences, 'You've got to spend your money on Asian American content. I really want you to do that. Put your money where your mouth is.'\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You know, [\u003cem>Crazy Rich Asians\u003c/em>] is not erasing any kind of anti-Asian sentiment or anything that keeps Asian people down in the media, but it has shifted the needle in a noticeable way. I was invited to be a member of the Motion Picture Academy right before \u003cem>Crazy Rich Asians\u003c/em> came out, and it's because there's a trend of wanting to be inclusive and diverse, particularly in these bodies which purport to be representing everyone. Now they do represent more people.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>On moments when he realizes he lives a special kind of life:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003c/b>\"Not to pat myself on the back, because it's not meant to be that at all, but I feel that all the time. For example, I did this movie, \u003cem>Bird Box. \u003c/em>And as luck would have it, it became this big thing, and my interaction with someone like Sandra Bullock becomes this kind of thing that still surprises me. I'm still like, wow, this person even knowing me or liking me... I feel this all the time... I spent three months in Argentina with Brad Pitt (in separate rooms). Things like that happen all the time and it's wonderful. And I'm very aware that I'm very lucky.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>On his first gay crush:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003c/b>\"Batman and Robin. I was four-years-old. I remember watching the TV and feeling warm. It wasn't just either of them up physically or anything like that; it was their dynamic relationship. It was a male duo relationship that you didn't really see that much of at the time. And so the bond of that has always stayed with me. I mean, I'm sure I'm not the only person who felt this way. And then there were tights!\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Listen to hear all about it:\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[audio src=\"https://www.kqed.org/.stream/anon/radio/thecooler/2019/02/BDWongg.mp3\" title=\"BD Wong on Coming Out in Hollywood and the Power in Being Yourself\" program=\"The Cooler\" image=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/pop/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2019/02/Screen-Shot-2019-02-28-at-2.10.14-AM.png\"]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Until next week! \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/id1041117499\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Subscribe and rate us five stars in iTunes\u003c/a>! And find us on \u003ca href=\"https://www.facebook.com/KQED-Pop-336039936485067/timeline/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Facebook\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/kqedpop\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Twitter\u003c/a>!\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"BD Wong chats about how he learned to love his Asian-American and gay identities, how he felt about his 'Law & Order: SVU' character's coming out storyline, and so much more!","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1551351270,"stats":{"hasAudio":true,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":20,"wordCount":1030},"headData":{"title":"BD Wong on Coming Out in Hollywood and the Power in Being Yourself | KQED","description":"BD Wong chats about how he learned to love his Asian-American and gay identities, how he felt about his 'Law & Order: SVU' character's coming out storyline, and so much more!","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"Article","headline":"BD Wong on Coming Out in Hollywood and the Power in Being Yourself","datePublished":"2019-02-28T10:14:36.000Z","dateModified":"2019-02-28T10:54:30.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}},"disqusIdentifier":"109742 https://ww2.kqed.org/pop/?p=109742","disqusUrl":"https://ww2.kqed.org/pop/2019/02/28/bd-wong-on-coming-out-in-hollywood-and-the-power-in-being-yourself/","disqusTitle":"BD Wong on Coming Out in Hollywood and the Power in Being Yourself","audioTrackLength":1847,"path":"/pop/109742/bd-wong-on-coming-out-in-hollywood-and-the-power-in-being-yourself","audioUrl":"https://www.kqed.org/.stream/anon/radio/thecooler/2019/02/BDWongg.mp3","audioDuration":1861000,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This week, we are joined by a brilliant actor who’s been in—pardon my French—\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">a sh*t ton\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> of movies, television shows and theater productions. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Jurassic Park\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, ever heard of it? \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Law and Order: SVU\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, hello! \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mulan\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oz\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mr. Robot\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">M Butterfly and \u003ca href=\"https://www.act-sf.org/home/box_office/1819_season/the_great_leap.highResolutionDisplay.html\">A.C.T.'s The Great Leap\u003c/a>\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. The list goes on. Put some respect on his name: it’s BD Wong! \u003c/span>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch3>Interview Highlights\u003c/h3>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>On the power of starring on a popular show like \u003cem>Law & Order: SVU\u003c/em>:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"The most gratifying kind of fan interaction that you can have is 'I decided to be a forensic psychiatrist because I saw you in the show when I was very young, and I didn't know there was such a career opportunity.' ...That's why it's very important for television writers and television producers to be responsible about their content because it's reaching young people at a very impressionable time. When you realize that [television] actually influences people, it's an eye-opening kind of thing, which I love. I like understanding that something that we're doing isn't just reduced to its popularity but there's a little bit more to it.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>On how he felt about the \u003cem>Law & Order: SVU\u003c/em> writers revealing his character, Dr. George Huang, was gay right before he left the show:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003c/b>\"I had no idea throughout the time that I was doing the show for ten and a half years, so it felt a little cheap to me. I was also kind of torn because, you know, it's positive... But it did feel a little convenient or kind of lazy or, you know, kind of not particularly the best way that you want to come out as a character. It wasn't like Ellen coming out. It wasn't a great thing that was really impactful and funny or human or whatever; it was just kind of a minor point made.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>On how he came to accept his Asian-American and gay identities:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003c/b>\"I was watching television and I was going to movies, and there were no Asian people, and the gay people that were characterized weren't really particularly positive. So there was a kind of a double insult to me. It made me not want to be those things. I was kind of in denial about it. And this is a kind of denial that a lot of ethnic kids, specifically I think Asian American kids and some gay kids, have where they avoid the issue of the truth of them. And when you avoid that, it causes only problems for you and it takes you a long time to kind of untangle.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The thing that you think is going to kill you is actually the thing that enlivens you and drives you and pushes you forward. It's really actually an amazingly great feeling to be yourself. What a concept, right? And I think more people definitely know that now than they did before, although it's still a struggle for lots of people.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>On how \u003cem>Crazy Rich Asians\u003c/em> has or hasn't changed the Hollywood landscape:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003c/b>\"I think feeling positive about something that sometimes feels very despairing is a really good thing, like to take a break from the despair for a second. Let's just celebrate this thing for a minute.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I was around when \u003cem>The Joy Luck Club\u003c/em> came out, and there was no social media; people were less kind of rah-rah passionate about it. But Asian American people, to their credit, got really into this movie and that was really heartwarming and empowering because I've always said, in my career, to Asian American audiences, 'You've got to spend your money on Asian American content. I really want you to do that. Put your money where your mouth is.'\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You know, [\u003cem>Crazy Rich Asians\u003c/em>] is not erasing any kind of anti-Asian sentiment or anything that keeps Asian people down in the media, but it has shifted the needle in a noticeable way. I was invited to be a member of the Motion Picture Academy right before \u003cem>Crazy Rich Asians\u003c/em> came out, and it's because there's a trend of wanting to be inclusive and diverse, particularly in these bodies which purport to be representing everyone. Now they do represent more people.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>On moments when he realizes he lives a special kind of life:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003c/b>\"Not to pat myself on the back, because it's not meant to be that at all, but I feel that all the time. For example, I did this movie, \u003cem>Bird Box. \u003c/em>And as luck would have it, it became this big thing, and my interaction with someone like Sandra Bullock becomes this kind of thing that still surprises me. I'm still like, wow, this person even knowing me or liking me... I feel this all the time... I spent three months in Argentina with Brad Pitt (in separate rooms). Things like that happen all the time and it's wonderful. And I'm very aware that I'm very lucky.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>On his first gay crush:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003c/b>\"Batman and Robin. I was four-years-old. I remember watching the TV and feeling warm. It wasn't just either of them up physically or anything like that; it was their dynamic relationship. It was a male duo relationship that you didn't really see that much of at the time. And so the bond of that has always stayed with me. I mean, I'm sure I'm not the only person who felt this way. And then there were tights!\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Listen to hear all about it:\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"audio","attributes":{"named":{"src":"https://www.kqed.org/.stream/anon/radio/thecooler/2019/02/BDWongg.mp3","title":"BD Wong on Coming Out in Hollywood and the Power in Being Yourself","program":"The Cooler","image":"https://ww2.kqed.org/pop/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2019/02/Screen-Shot-2019-02-28-at-2.10.14-AM.png","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Until next week! \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/id1041117499\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Subscribe and rate us five stars in iTunes\u003c/a>! And find us on \u003ca href=\"https://www.facebook.com/KQED-Pop-336039936485067/timeline/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Facebook\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/kqedpop\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Twitter\u003c/a>!\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/pop/109742/bd-wong-on-coming-out-in-hollywood-and-the-power-in-being-yourself","authors":["27"],"categories":["pop_2793"],"tags":["pop_3426","pop_3486","pop_3341","pop_29","pop_749","pop_2859"],"featImg":"pop_109748","label":"pop"},"pop_105587":{"type":"posts","id":"pop_105587","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"pop","id":"105587","score":null,"sort":[1536217259000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"deray-mckesson-on-black-lives-matter-the-x-men-and-that-blue-vest","title":"DeRay Mckesson on Black Lives Matter, the X-Men and That Blue Vest","publishDate":1536217259,"format":"standard","headTitle":"KQED Pop | KQED Arts","labelTerm":{"site":"pop"},"content":"\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/pop/category/the-cooler\">\u003cem>The Cooler\u003c/em>\u003c/a> is back for Season 4! And because we're extra, our first episode features civil rights activist and \u003ca href=\"https://crooked.com/podcast-series/pod-save-the-people/\">\u003cem>Pod Save The People\u003c/em>\u003c/a> host \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"https://deray.com/\">DeRay McKesson\u003c/a>! We talked about his powerful new book \u003ca href=\"https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/586471/on-the-other-side-of-freedom-by-deray-mckesson/9780525560326/\">\u003cem>On the Other Side of Freedom\u003c/em>\u003c/a>, what it was like to spend 400 days protesting in the streets, everything he's learned from the X-Men, and why that vest means so much to him.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch3>Interview Highlights\u003c/h3>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>On the importance of his signature blue vest\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003c/b>\u003cem>\"\u003c/em>I continue to wear it because it reminds me that what we went through happened. I think about what it was like in St. Louis when it was illegal to stand still. I think about the nights that I hid under my steering wheel. I think about the night we ran from tear gas and rubber bullets and pepper spray. You can get a little removed from those actual experiences and forget that they happened, like they become these sort of distant things that you remember, and I just never want to forget. That was so real to me and it changed my life and the lives of so many other people.\u003cb>\u003c/b> The vest keeps me grounded and keeps me whole in that way.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>On the difference between an ally and an accomplice\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"Both love you, right? Allies love you from a distance; accomplices love you up close. There are people who get it. They're like, \u003cem>Injustice is bad. Let us figure out what to do.\u003c/em> And that's sort of basic; that is 101, I'm at the party. What accomplices do is say, \u003cem>Here's actually what I'm willing to put on the line so that we can get to a different sense of justice on the other side of freedom\u003c/em>... I know a lot of allies who show up to the random rally, they go to the brunch, they are back row at the talk, and then you're like, \u003cem>Well, what are you going to do about it?\u003c/em> and they're like, \u003cem>What do you mean 'do'? I came here.\u003c/em> That's not it. That is Awareness 101.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>On his complicated feelings around social media\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003c/b>\u003cem>\"\u003c/em>I'm actually not convinced we're designed to get as much feedback as those platforms give. Sometimes it's just too much. And what does that mean for the way you think about yourself, the way you think about the world? ... I'm hopeful that we're able to figure out how to pivot this so that we don't get stuck in these awareness cycles but we actually get stuck in action cycles. Like you realize something really bad happened. You can turn that into action. You go do something, get an outcome... I worry that so much is happening, especially in the specter of Trump, that people are just shocked every day. That's not a productive place to be stuck in.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>On what some get wrong about protesting\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"Telling the truth is hard work. We tell the truth so we can change the conditions so we don't have to tell \u003cem>this\u003c/em> truth anymore. And there are people who forget that part of it, that we protest not to protest but to create space for change. I know protest is not the answer. Protests create space for the answer. And people forget that part.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>On how the X-Men taught him about leadership and what it means to be strong\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003c/b>\u003cem>\"\u003c/em>Storm specifically was always so fascinating to me because she always showed up first, but she never ever needed the shine. She controlled the elements. Storm could have shut it all down—froze everybody, wind, lightning—but she would do enough to create space for other people to do really great work. She would do enough so people wouldn't die. And then in comes Cyclops, or in comes Professor X, or in comes somebody else... That changed the way I thought about what it meant to be a leader and what it meant to be strong. There are so many images of what it means to be strong, which is like you do all the work, and that just wasn't Storm. I still carry that with me to this day.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>To hear all these moments and so much more, listen to the full episode:\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe sandbox=\"allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-popups\" scrolling=\"no\" width=\"100%\" height=\"185\" frameborder=\"0\" src=\"https://embed.radiopublic.com/e?if=the-cooler-WznYNK&ge=s1!4cba7f32e1614a4f29ca43f7a7cc4b97328a0ad2\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[audio src='https://www.kqed.org/.stream/anon/radio/thecooler/2018/09/DeRayMckesson.mp3' title='DeRay Mckesson on Black Lives Matter, the X-Men and That Blue Vest' program='The Cooler' image='https://ww2.kqed.org/pop/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2018/09/DeRay.jpg']\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Want even more DeRay? Catch him on his book tour! For dates and tickets, head on over to \u003ca href=\"https://deray.com/\">deray.com\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Until next week! \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/id1041117499\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Subscribe and rate us five stars in iTunes\u003c/a>! And find us on \u003ca href=\"https://www.facebook.com/KQED-Pop-336039936485067/timeline/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Facebook\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/kqedpop\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Twitter\u003c/a>!\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"We're back for Season 4! Because we're extra, our comeback ep features DeRay Mckesson, who speaks on what it was like to spend 400 days protesting in the streets, everything he's learned from the X-Men, and why that blue vest means so much to him.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1544744166,"stats":{"hasAudio":true,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":16,"wordCount":815},"headData":{"title":"DeRay Mckesson on Black Lives Matter, the X-Men and That Blue Vest | KQED","description":"We're back for Season 4! Because we're extra, our comeback ep features DeRay Mckesson, who speaks on what it was like to spend 400 days protesting in the streets, everything he's learned from the X-Men, and why that blue vest means so much to him.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"Article","headline":"DeRay Mckesson on Black Lives Matter, the X-Men and That Blue Vest","datePublished":"2018-09-06T07:00:59.000Z","dateModified":"2018-12-13T23:36:06.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}},"disqusIdentifier":"105587 https://ww2.kqed.org/pop/?p=105587","disqusUrl":"https://ww2.kqed.org/pop/2018/09/06/deray-mckesson-on-black-lives-matter-the-x-men-and-that-blue-vest/","disqusTitle":"DeRay Mckesson on Black Lives Matter, the X-Men and That Blue Vest","audioTrackLength":1792,"path":"/pop/105587/deray-mckesson-on-black-lives-matter-the-x-men-and-that-blue-vest","audioUrl":"https://www.kqed.org/.stream/anon/radio/thecooler/2018/09/DeRayMckesson.mp3","audioDuration":1792000,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/pop/category/the-cooler\">\u003cem>The Cooler\u003c/em>\u003c/a> is back for Season 4! And because we're extra, our first episode features civil rights activist and \u003ca href=\"https://crooked.com/podcast-series/pod-save-the-people/\">\u003cem>Pod Save The People\u003c/em>\u003c/a> host \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"https://deray.com/\">DeRay McKesson\u003c/a>! We talked about his powerful new book \u003ca href=\"https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/586471/on-the-other-side-of-freedom-by-deray-mckesson/9780525560326/\">\u003cem>On the Other Side of Freedom\u003c/em>\u003c/a>, what it was like to spend 400 days protesting in the streets, everything he's learned from the X-Men, and why that vest means so much to him.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch3>Interview Highlights\u003c/h3>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>On the importance of his signature blue vest\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003c/b>\u003cem>\"\u003c/em>I continue to wear it because it reminds me that what we went through happened. I think about what it was like in St. Louis when it was illegal to stand still. I think about the nights that I hid under my steering wheel. I think about the night we ran from tear gas and rubber bullets and pepper spray. You can get a little removed from those actual experiences and forget that they happened, like they become these sort of distant things that you remember, and I just never want to forget. That was so real to me and it changed my life and the lives of so many other people.\u003cb>\u003c/b> The vest keeps me grounded and keeps me whole in that way.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>On the difference between an ally and an accomplice\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"Both love you, right? Allies love you from a distance; accomplices love you up close. There are people who get it. They're like, \u003cem>Injustice is bad. Let us figure out what to do.\u003c/em> And that's sort of basic; that is 101, I'm at the party. What accomplices do is say, \u003cem>Here's actually what I'm willing to put on the line so that we can get to a different sense of justice on the other side of freedom\u003c/em>... I know a lot of allies who show up to the random rally, they go to the brunch, they are back row at the talk, and then you're like, \u003cem>Well, what are you going to do about it?\u003c/em> and they're like, \u003cem>What do you mean 'do'? I came here.\u003c/em> That's not it. That is Awareness 101.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>On his complicated feelings around social media\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003c/b>\u003cem>\"\u003c/em>I'm actually not convinced we're designed to get as much feedback as those platforms give. Sometimes it's just too much. And what does that mean for the way you think about yourself, the way you think about the world? ... I'm hopeful that we're able to figure out how to pivot this so that we don't get stuck in these awareness cycles but we actually get stuck in action cycles. Like you realize something really bad happened. You can turn that into action. You go do something, get an outcome... I worry that so much is happening, especially in the specter of Trump, that people are just shocked every day. That's not a productive place to be stuck in.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>On what some get wrong about protesting\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"Telling the truth is hard work. We tell the truth so we can change the conditions so we don't have to tell \u003cem>this\u003c/em> truth anymore. And there are people who forget that part of it, that we protest not to protest but to create space for change. I know protest is not the answer. Protests create space for the answer. And people forget that part.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>On how the X-Men taught him about leadership and what it means to be strong\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003c/b>\u003cem>\"\u003c/em>Storm specifically was always so fascinating to me because she always showed up first, but she never ever needed the shine. She controlled the elements. Storm could have shut it all down—froze everybody, wind, lightning—but she would do enough to create space for other people to do really great work. She would do enough so people wouldn't die. And then in comes Cyclops, or in comes Professor X, or in comes somebody else... That changed the way I thought about what it meant to be a leader and what it meant to be strong. There are so many images of what it means to be strong, which is like you do all the work, and that just wasn't Storm. I still carry that with me to this day.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>To hear all these moments and so much more, listen to the full episode:\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe sandbox=\"allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-popups\" scrolling=\"no\" width=\"100%\" height=\"185\" frameborder=\"0\" src=\"https://embed.radiopublic.com/e?if=the-cooler-WznYNK&ge=s1!4cba7f32e1614a4f29ca43f7a7cc4b97328a0ad2\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"audio","attributes":{"named":{"program":"The Cooler","image":"https://ww2.kqed.org/pop/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2018/09/DeRay.jpg","label":"src='https://www.kqed.org/.stream/anon/radio/thecooler/2018/09/DeRayMckesson.mp3' title='DeRay Mckesson on Black Lives Matter, the X-Men and That Blue Vest'"},"numeric":["src='https://www.kqed.org/.stream/anon/radio/thecooler/2018/09/DeRayMckesson.mp3' title='DeRay","Mckesson","on","Black","Lives","Matter,","the","X-Men","and","That","Blue","Vest'"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Want even more DeRay? Catch him on his book tour! For dates and tickets, head on over to \u003ca href=\"https://deray.com/\">deray.com\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Until next week! \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/id1041117499\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Subscribe and rate us five stars in iTunes\u003c/a>! And find us on \u003ca href=\"https://www.facebook.com/KQED-Pop-336039936485067/timeline/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Facebook\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/kqedpop\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Twitter\u003c/a>!\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/pop/105587/deray-mckesson-on-black-lives-matter-the-x-men-and-that-blue-vest","authors":["27"],"categories":["pop_2793"],"tags":["pop_2875","pop_3290","pop_29","pop_2859"],"featImg":"pop_105614","label":"pop"},"pop_24705":{"type":"posts","id":"pop_24705","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"pop","id":"24705","score":null,"sort":[1463762425000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"pump-up-the-volume-with-shrill-lindy-west-drowns-out-the-trolls","title":"Pump Up the Volume: With 'Shrill,' Lindy West Drowns Out the Trolls","publishDate":1463762425,"format":"standard","headTitle":"KQED Pop | KQED Arts","labelTerm":{"site":"pop"},"content":"\u003cp>Imagine a workplace where any time you took a stand on a controversial issue, a choir of men who disagreed ticked off a litany of violent acts that should be done to you. Not awful enough? Picture an office where hundreds of men drop by your cube to, as shrewd feminist essayist \u003ca href=\"http://www.lindywest.net/#about\" target=\"_blank\">Lindy West\u003c/a> writes, inform you that “you’re too fat to rape, but perhaps they’ll just saw you with an electric knife.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s unfathomable that modern American society would tolerate such threatening language as valid expressions of differences of opinion. No sane boss would tell his or her employees to get over it, or “hey, just don’t listen to the taunts,” if this was happening face-to-face.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But what about when it happens online? As West writes in her excellent new memoir \u003cem>Shrill: Notes From a Loud Woman\u003c/em>, this nasty breed of vehemence is a regular and under-addressed workplace occurrence for many female journalists who make a living shedding light on issues pertaining to how we treat and talk about women -- particularly self-proclaimed fat women like her.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Pretty much every day, at least one stranger seeks me out to call me a fat bitch (or some pithy variation thereof),” she writes, adding that together with rape and injury threats, “This is the barbarism — the eager abandonment of the social contract — that so many of us face simply for doing our jobs.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cimg class=\"aligncenter size-medium wp-image-24832\" src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/pop/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2016/05/Shrill_HC-800x1228.jpg\" alt=\"Shrill_HC\" width=\"800\" height=\"1228\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2016/05/Shrill_HC-800x1228.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2016/05/Shrill_HC-400x614.jpg 400w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2016/05/Shrill_HC-768x1178.jpg 768w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2016/05/Shrill_HC-1440x2210.jpg 1440w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2016/05/Shrill_HC-1180x1811.jpg 1180w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2016/05/Shrill_HC-960x1473.jpg 960w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2016/05/Shrill_HC.jpg 1613w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You may recognize West’s name from her work as a columnist for the \u003cem>Guardian\u003c/em>, or a freelancer for \u003cem>New York Times\u003c/em>,\u003cem> Cosmopolitan\u003c/em>, and \u003cem>GQ\u003c/em>. Or perhaps you remember her as the Jezebel staffer who wrote a \u003ca href=\"http://jezebel.com/heres-what-it-feels-like-to-be-a-fat-person-on-a-plane-1488750726\" target=\"_blank\">vulnerable essay \u003c/a>about the “low-grade hostility” she faces from other passengers every time she flies simply because she’s a fat woman. The online responses to that article, she writes, included such disgusting comments as “I wouldn’t stoop to feminist levels and wish her bodily harm — castration/acid burning her face, etc. — on her, but if I did…”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Maybe you remember her coming out against rape jokes, because, as she writes, “there is nothing novel or comedic or righteous about men using the threat of sexual violence to control non-compliant women.” She went head to head on \u003cem>Totally Biased\u003c/em> with comedian Jim Norton over that issue. Their debate stoked yet another avalanche of horrid comments that she details in \u003cem>Shrill\u003c/em>, such as this one: “Holes like this make me want to commit rape out of anger.” The rampage against her was so strong that West, who came up in the Seattle comedy scene, decided to quit going to open mics and comedy shows completely, which was “the toll of rocking the boat in an industry you love.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In a phone conversation to promote her book tour for \u003cem>Shrill\u003c/em>, West tells me she has PTSD from the deluge of raging rape comments that were directed at her.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I have a hard time going to comedy clubs and seeing stand-up, and that’s not from an ideological perspective, but from a physical perspective,” she says. “When I go to a comedy club I’m like, ‘Which of these open mic comics lurking in the back corners has told me they hope I get raped and die on Twitter?’ I don’t feel comfortable there any more.” It’s a heartbreaking admission from someone so preternaturally funny in both the personal and political arenas.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_24789\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg class=\"size-medium wp-image-24789\" src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/pop/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2016/05/lindy2-800x449.jpg\" alt=\"Lindy West\" width=\"800\" height=\"449\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2016/05/lindy2-800x449.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2016/05/lindy2-400x225.jpg 400w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2016/05/lindy2-768x432.jpg 768w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2016/05/lindy2-960x539.jpg 960w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2016/05/lindy2.jpg 970w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Lindy West \u003ccite>(Jenny Jimenez)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>One particularly revolting instance of online abuse got national exposure, when West contributed a moving piece about it to \u003cem>\u003ca href=\"http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/545/if-you-dont-have-anything-nice-to-say-say-it-in-all-caps\" target=\"_blank\">This American Life\u003c/a>.\u003c/em> In the segment, she details how she confronted a troll who had impersonated her recently deceased, beloved father in order to launch social media attacks against her. Their eventual phone conversation, which West describes in \u003cem>Shrill\u003c/em>, serves as a monumental moment for anyone who has gone to battle with any level of troll, from the garden personalized-attack variety to the more insidious Gamergate and swatter variety detailed in a recent\u003ca href=\"http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/29/magazine/the-serial-swatter.html?_r=1\" target=\"_blank\">\u003cem> New York Times Magazine\u003c/em> story\u003c/a>. West’s harasser broke down, apologized, and admitted that he’d gone after her out of jealousy of her confidence. She now has an admirable level of empathy for trolls, many of whom she believes are just miserable people hiding behind the Internet.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I'll acknowledge the experiences coloring my own views here: You don’t work in digital media without dealing with some level of trolling. When I was editor-in-chief at The Bold Italic, we were constantly weeding out heinous responses to our writers’ personal essays. But in reading this memoir by West, a writer I’ve long admired for her wicked sense of humor and astute observations on the way women are shut down, I had to wonder, is “troll” still the right word for this deluge of venom that people at her level of visibility battle?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A troll sounds like an evil monster, sure, but he’s a li’l guy. Turn off your computer and he disappears. What West describes, in detailed account after detailed account throughout \u003cem>Shrill\u003c/em> are activities she rightly categorizes as workplace harassment. Dealing with them, she writes, “[is] costing me time, potential income, and mental health.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“More significantly, though,” she adds, “it’s part of a massive, multifarious online harassment campaign that has saturated my life for the past decade — and, on a broader scale, is actively driving women off the Internet.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>http://www.thisamericanlife.org/play_full.php?play=545\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So I ask West if the thinks “troll” is still the correct word to encapsulate someone whose actions have such serious psychological consequences.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There are still people who I think the term troll is perfectly fine for,” she says. “It’s a hard thing to make a taxonomy of. There are people who are just screwing around and aren’t trying to emotionally traumatize people.” The difference, she adds, is when you look at the vicious language and the cumulative harm it does. “When people are posting your home address and threatening to rape you and clearly, deliberately trying to cause harm, we need to call that what it is,” she says. “We don’t need to give it a cute euphemism. We can call it harassment and stalking.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And when we do have the right language, then what? How do we deal with these linguistic knives? West doesn’t offer universal answers, especially since, as she emphasizes, her background isn’t in tech. In \u003cem>Shrill\u003c/em>, she describes her personal method of coping, which is a combo of A) “don’t click on anything,” B) “mock and block” the person, and C) “wine.” If you \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/thelindywest\" target=\"_blank\">follow her on social media\u003c/a> you can watch plan B in action, as she slays her taunters with mostly witty comebacks like an action hero picking off the bad guys one by one. But she doesn’t want to set a standard that everyone needs to be such a warrior.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I don’t ever want to say that there’s one model for what you should do, because I don’t even want to say that it’s anyone’s responsibility to weather this kind of garbage,” she says. “But I hope that in the end we’ve managed to hang on to some of these voices who might otherwise have been driven away. I want to help provide a pillar of solidarity and for people to know they’re not alone.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She says she hears often from young writers, especially women, who say they want to get into blogging but are afraid of getting ripped to shreds. “I just want to be visible, not being destroyed by that, for people who need to see that,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I don’t want to paint the picture that \u003cem>Shrill\u003c/em> is a book only about harassment, because it’s not. It’s also a book detailing how Lindy West, a girl who was too good at making herself “small” — speaking in whispers, retreating into fantasy novels — became one of the preeminent feminist bloggers of this social media era, one who is equally hilarious and heartfelt. The key to her evolution can’t be wrapped up in a single chapter or an easy aphorism. It’s in the culmination of battle after battle — with \u003cem>The Stranger\u003c/em>’s then-editor Dan Savage when he went on a horrid blogging tear about fat people while West was still working for that paper; with pro-rape joke activists and fat chauvinists; and with her own self-image.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Along the way, \u003cem>Shrill\u003c/em> has many vulnerable and non-troll-y personal moments, about her father and his terminal illness, about her husband and how their relationship nearly fell apart, and about her body and all the moments she went from being horrified at its monthly bleeding or ability to break chairs to appreciating its strengths.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For a book that’s so politically and socially-minded, \u003cem>Shrill\u003c/em> is also infused with warmth and self-effacing humor, which is to be expected from a writer who has long been comfortable telling her personal story in order to shed light on the universal. (See also: #shoutyourabortion, the successful social media campaign she launched with two Seattle friends to turn the narrative around abortions from being shameful and/or secretive to being a very practical experience for some women).\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And West says there’s more humor to come. Her main priority now is to get through a follow-up to \u003cem>Shrill\u003c/em> — which she loved writing because working on a book “keeps me off the Internet.” The concept behind the next one is secret for now, she says, but she will divulge that it’s going to be funny.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I \u003cem>always\u003c/em> just wanted to write funny things,” she says. Instead, she says she got dragged into more political writing, which she also loves and feels is very necessary. But while \u003cem>Shrill\u003c/em> was “really political and really feelings-y,” she now wants to take time to write a book that shows her comic side — and, she adds with a laugh, “is light on feelings.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Lindy West reads from Shrill on Tuesday, May 24, at Book Passage in Corte Madera, 51 Tamal Vista Blvd., at 7 p.m.\u003ca href=\"http://www.bookpassage.com/event/lindy-west-shrill-corte-madera\" target=\"_blank\"> Details here. \u003c/a>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"In her new book, the sharp-witted writer and activist chronicles the perils of being a woman on the Internet -- to both heartbreaking and hilarious effect. ","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1463764362,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":26,"wordCount":1837},"headData":{"title":"Pump Up the Volume: With 'Shrill,' Lindy West Drowns Out the Trolls | KQED","description":"In her new book, the sharp-witted writer and activist chronicles the perils of being a woman on the Internet -- to both heartbreaking and hilarious effect. ","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"Article","headline":"Pump Up the Volume: With 'Shrill,' Lindy West Drowns Out the Trolls","datePublished":"2016-05-20T16:40:25.000Z","dateModified":"2016-05-20T17:12:42.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}},"disqusIdentifier":"24705 http://ww2.kqed.org/pop/?p=24705","disqusUrl":"https://ww2.kqed.org/pop/2016/05/20/pump-up-the-volume-with-shrill-lindy-west-drowns-out-the-trolls/","disqusTitle":"Pump Up the Volume: With 'Shrill,' Lindy West Drowns Out the Trolls","nprByline":"Jennifer Maerz","path":"/pop/24705/pump-up-the-volume-with-shrill-lindy-west-drowns-out-the-trolls","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Imagine a workplace where any time you took a stand on a controversial issue, a choir of men who disagreed ticked off a litany of violent acts that should be done to you. Not awful enough? Picture an office where hundreds of men drop by your cube to, as shrewd feminist essayist \u003ca href=\"http://www.lindywest.net/#about\" target=\"_blank\">Lindy West\u003c/a> writes, inform you that “you’re too fat to rape, but perhaps they’ll just saw you with an electric knife.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s unfathomable that modern American society would tolerate such threatening language as valid expressions of differences of opinion. No sane boss would tell his or her employees to get over it, or “hey, just don’t listen to the taunts,” if this was happening face-to-face.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But what about when it happens online? As West writes in her excellent new memoir \u003cem>Shrill: Notes From a Loud Woman\u003c/em>, this nasty breed of vehemence is a regular and under-addressed workplace occurrence for many female journalists who make a living shedding light on issues pertaining to how we treat and talk about women -- particularly self-proclaimed fat women like her.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Pretty much every day, at least one stranger seeks me out to call me a fat bitch (or some pithy variation thereof),” she writes, adding that together with rape and injury threats, “This is the barbarism — the eager abandonment of the social contract — that so many of us face simply for doing our jobs.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cimg class=\"aligncenter size-medium wp-image-24832\" src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/pop/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2016/05/Shrill_HC-800x1228.jpg\" alt=\"Shrill_HC\" width=\"800\" height=\"1228\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2016/05/Shrill_HC-800x1228.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2016/05/Shrill_HC-400x614.jpg 400w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2016/05/Shrill_HC-768x1178.jpg 768w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2016/05/Shrill_HC-1440x2210.jpg 1440w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2016/05/Shrill_HC-1180x1811.jpg 1180w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2016/05/Shrill_HC-960x1473.jpg 960w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2016/05/Shrill_HC.jpg 1613w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You may recognize West’s name from her work as a columnist for the \u003cem>Guardian\u003c/em>, or a freelancer for \u003cem>New York Times\u003c/em>,\u003cem> Cosmopolitan\u003c/em>, and \u003cem>GQ\u003c/em>. Or perhaps you remember her as the Jezebel staffer who wrote a \u003ca href=\"http://jezebel.com/heres-what-it-feels-like-to-be-a-fat-person-on-a-plane-1488750726\" target=\"_blank\">vulnerable essay \u003c/a>about the “low-grade hostility” she faces from other passengers every time she flies simply because she’s a fat woman. The online responses to that article, she writes, included such disgusting comments as “I wouldn’t stoop to feminist levels and wish her bodily harm — castration/acid burning her face, etc. — on her, but if I did…”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Maybe you remember her coming out against rape jokes, because, as she writes, “there is nothing novel or comedic or righteous about men using the threat of sexual violence to control non-compliant women.” She went head to head on \u003cem>Totally Biased\u003c/em> with comedian Jim Norton over that issue. Their debate stoked yet another avalanche of horrid comments that she details in \u003cem>Shrill\u003c/em>, such as this one: “Holes like this make me want to commit rape out of anger.” The rampage against her was so strong that West, who came up in the Seattle comedy scene, decided to quit going to open mics and comedy shows completely, which was “the toll of rocking the boat in an industry you love.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In a phone conversation to promote her book tour for \u003cem>Shrill\u003c/em>, West tells me she has PTSD from the deluge of raging rape comments that were directed at her.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I have a hard time going to comedy clubs and seeing stand-up, and that’s not from an ideological perspective, but from a physical perspective,” she says. “When I go to a comedy club I’m like, ‘Which of these open mic comics lurking in the back corners has told me they hope I get raped and die on Twitter?’ I don’t feel comfortable there any more.” It’s a heartbreaking admission from someone so preternaturally funny in both the personal and political arenas.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_24789\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg class=\"size-medium wp-image-24789\" src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/pop/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2016/05/lindy2-800x449.jpg\" alt=\"Lindy West\" width=\"800\" height=\"449\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2016/05/lindy2-800x449.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2016/05/lindy2-400x225.jpg 400w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2016/05/lindy2-768x432.jpg 768w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2016/05/lindy2-960x539.jpg 960w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2016/05/lindy2.jpg 970w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Lindy West \u003ccite>(Jenny Jimenez)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>One particularly revolting instance of online abuse got national exposure, when West contributed a moving piece about it to \u003cem>\u003ca href=\"http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/545/if-you-dont-have-anything-nice-to-say-say-it-in-all-caps\" target=\"_blank\">This American Life\u003c/a>.\u003c/em> In the segment, she details how she confronted a troll who had impersonated her recently deceased, beloved father in order to launch social media attacks against her. Their eventual phone conversation, which West describes in \u003cem>Shrill\u003c/em>, serves as a monumental moment for anyone who has gone to battle with any level of troll, from the garden personalized-attack variety to the more insidious Gamergate and swatter variety detailed in a recent\u003ca href=\"http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/29/magazine/the-serial-swatter.html?_r=1\" target=\"_blank\">\u003cem> New York Times Magazine\u003c/em> story\u003c/a>. West’s harasser broke down, apologized, and admitted that he’d gone after her out of jealousy of her confidence. She now has an admirable level of empathy for trolls, many of whom she believes are just miserable people hiding behind the Internet.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I'll acknowledge the experiences coloring my own views here: You don’t work in digital media without dealing with some level of trolling. When I was editor-in-chief at The Bold Italic, we were constantly weeding out heinous responses to our writers’ personal essays. But in reading this memoir by West, a writer I’ve long admired for her wicked sense of humor and astute observations on the way women are shut down, I had to wonder, is “troll” still the right word for this deluge of venom that people at her level of visibility battle?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A troll sounds like an evil monster, sure, but he’s a li’l guy. Turn off your computer and he disappears. What West describes, in detailed account after detailed account throughout \u003cem>Shrill\u003c/em> are activities she rightly categorizes as workplace harassment. Dealing with them, she writes, “[is] costing me time, potential income, and mental health.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“More significantly, though,” she adds, “it’s part of a massive, multifarious online harassment campaign that has saturated my life for the past decade — and, on a broader scale, is actively driving women off the Internet.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>http://www.thisamericanlife.org/play_full.php?play=545\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So I ask West if the thinks “troll” is still the correct word to encapsulate someone whose actions have such serious psychological consequences.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There are still people who I think the term troll is perfectly fine for,” she says. “It’s a hard thing to make a taxonomy of. There are people who are just screwing around and aren’t trying to emotionally traumatize people.” The difference, she adds, is when you look at the vicious language and the cumulative harm it does. “When people are posting your home address and threatening to rape you and clearly, deliberately trying to cause harm, we need to call that what it is,” she says. “We don’t need to give it a cute euphemism. We can call it harassment and stalking.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And when we do have the right language, then what? How do we deal with these linguistic knives? West doesn’t offer universal answers, especially since, as she emphasizes, her background isn’t in tech. In \u003cem>Shrill\u003c/em>, she describes her personal method of coping, which is a combo of A) “don’t click on anything,” B) “mock and block” the person, and C) “wine.” If you \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/thelindywest\" target=\"_blank\">follow her on social media\u003c/a> you can watch plan B in action, as she slays her taunters with mostly witty comebacks like an action hero picking off the bad guys one by one. But she doesn’t want to set a standard that everyone needs to be such a warrior.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I don’t ever want to say that there’s one model for what you should do, because I don’t even want to say that it’s anyone’s responsibility to weather this kind of garbage,” she says. “But I hope that in the end we’ve managed to hang on to some of these voices who might otherwise have been driven away. I want to help provide a pillar of solidarity and for people to know they’re not alone.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She says she hears often from young writers, especially women, who say they want to get into blogging but are afraid of getting ripped to shreds. “I just want to be visible, not being destroyed by that, for people who need to see that,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I don’t want to paint the picture that \u003cem>Shrill\u003c/em> is a book only about harassment, because it’s not. It’s also a book detailing how Lindy West, a girl who was too good at making herself “small” — speaking in whispers, retreating into fantasy novels — became one of the preeminent feminist bloggers of this social media era, one who is equally hilarious and heartfelt. The key to her evolution can’t be wrapped up in a single chapter or an easy aphorism. It’s in the culmination of battle after battle — with \u003cem>The Stranger\u003c/em>’s then-editor Dan Savage when he went on a horrid blogging tear about fat people while West was still working for that paper; with pro-rape joke activists and fat chauvinists; and with her own self-image.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Along the way, \u003cem>Shrill\u003c/em> has many vulnerable and non-troll-y personal moments, about her father and his terminal illness, about her husband and how their relationship nearly fell apart, and about her body and all the moments she went from being horrified at its monthly bleeding or ability to break chairs to appreciating its strengths.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For a book that’s so politically and socially-minded, \u003cem>Shrill\u003c/em> is also infused with warmth and self-effacing humor, which is to be expected from a writer who has long been comfortable telling her personal story in order to shed light on the universal. (See also: #shoutyourabortion, the successful social media campaign she launched with two Seattle friends to turn the narrative around abortions from being shameful and/or secretive to being a very practical experience for some women).\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And West says there’s more humor to come. Her main priority now is to get through a follow-up to \u003cem>Shrill\u003c/em> — which she loved writing because working on a book “keeps me off the Internet.” The concept behind the next one is secret for now, she says, but she will divulge that it’s going to be funny.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I \u003cem>always\u003c/em> just wanted to write funny things,” she says. Instead, she says she got dragged into more political writing, which she also loves and feels is very necessary. But while \u003cem>Shrill\u003c/em> was “really political and really feelings-y,” she now wants to take time to write a book that shows her comic side — and, she adds with a laugh, “is light on feelings.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Lindy West reads from Shrill on Tuesday, May 24, at Book Passage in Corte Madera, 51 Tamal Vista Blvd., at 7 p.m.\u003ca href=\"http://www.bookpassage.com/event/lindy-west-shrill-corte-madera\" target=\"_blank\"> Details here. \u003c/a>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/pop/24705/pump-up-the-volume-with-shrill-lindy-west-drowns-out-the-trolls","authors":["byline_pop_24705"],"categories":["pop_1548"],"tags":["pop_197","pop_29","pop_2858","pop_2849","pop_2857"],"featImg":"pop_24778","label":"pop"},"pop_8653":{"type":"posts","id":"pop_8653","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"pop","id":"8653","score":null,"sort":[1380300534000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"mike-tyson-on-working-with-spike-lee-and-beating-his-fiercest-opponent-self-hate","title":"Mike Tyson on Working with Spike Lee and Beating His Fiercest Opponent, Self Hate","publishDate":1380300534,"format":"aside","headTitle":"KQED Pop | KQED Arts","labelTerm":{"site":"pop"},"content":"\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_8658\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 695px\">\u003ca href=\"http://blogs.kqed.org/pop/2013/09/27/mike-tyson-on-working-with-spike-lee-and-beating-his-fiercest-opponent-self-hate/miketyson_spot/\" rel=\"attachment wp-att-8658\">\u003cimg class=\"size-full wp-image-8658\" src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/pop/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2013/09/MikeTyson_spot.jpg\" alt=\"Mike Tyson: Undisputed Truth will be at Oakland's Fox Theater October 10\" width=\"695\" height=\"360\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2013/09/MikeTyson_spot.jpg 695w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2013/09/MikeTyson_spot-400x207.jpg 400w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 695px) 100vw, 695px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Mike Tyson: Undisputed Truth will be at Oakland's Fox Theater October 10\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Returning to the Bay Area by popular demand in his one man show \u003cem>Mike Tyson: Undisputed Truth\u003c/em> on October 10th, \u003cstrong>Mike Tyson\u003c/strong> is embarking on the latest stage in one of the most unexpected career reinventions in recent popular culture. The former undisputed heavyweight champion of the world and youngest boxer to win the WBC, WBA and IBF heavyweight titles has entered a kind of public second act rare in the world of sports since his acclaimed comedic cameo in \u003cem>The Hangover \u003c/em>(think somewhere in the lexicon of vaudeville trouping Babe Ruth or Broadway Joe Namath) and is continuing to ride the wave of new fandom with his six part series \u003cem>Being Mike Tyson. \u003c/em>KQED Pop spoke to Iron Mike about his involvement in Fox Sports' \u003cem>Being\u003c/em> series, bringing \u003cem>Undisputed Truth\u003c/em> to Oakland's Fox Theater and his new fame with younger generations.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop: How does it feel to be coming back to the Bay Area with \u003cem>Undisputed Truth\u003c/em>?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mike Tyson:\u003c/strong> I'm very grateful brother, very grateful.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Spike Lee directed the show before it opened on Broadway (after an initial production in Las Vegas); what was it like working with the Academy Award nominated director?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tyson: \u003c/strong>It was a great opportunity to work with him. He makes you work very hard to get the best out of you. No topics were off limits, not at all. Everything was on the table.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Your six episode series \u003cem>Being Mike Tyson \u003c/em>with Fox Sports follows you as you perform \u003cem>Undisputed Truth \u003c/em>across the country.\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tyson:\u003c/strong> It's a lot about reflecting. I go to the prison where I spent three years (the Plainfield Correctional Facility in Indiana) and go make amends with my warden. It doesn't give you closure; it's an interesting dynamic process that I had to experience in my life. It was good for me to do that. It's something I had to do for me; I didn't do it for no one else.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>In the series, you meet with Muhammad Ali, whom you've described as one of your great personal heroes.\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tyson: \u003c/strong>It was just wonderful spending time with him; I just enjoy being in the man's presence. When you're with him, you realize you're in the presence of someone really special, from a humanity perspective. I've been friends with him many years, since I was 19. It's always a great experience. When I was in a juvenile detention center, Mohamed Ali came to visit and that was the first time I had any information I wanted to be a fighter.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>In the past few years you've had a different kind of public persona emerge in the media.\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tyson: \u003c/strong>Tell me about it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003cem>The Hangover\u003c/em> showed a much lighter, more comedic side of you and that seems to have carried over into other parts of your perception by the public.\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tyson: \u003c/strong>I deal with a great self hate image of myself. So I'm working day by day on liking that image of myself. Regardless of how I act or feel with a low opinion of myself, I know that I'm a great performer. My objective is still to perform magnificently. I want to perform great and that doesn't hold me back in my performance, but it's there in my everyday life and living.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>How do you feel about the difference performing for a live audience versus performing for camera?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tyson: \u003c/strong>I'm a stage performer; I'm at my best in front of a crowd of people feeling their energy when they can tell me what they want without talking. If I'm in the ring, I know what you want without opening your mouth; your energy tells me what you want. It's like you're talking to me telepathically when I'm on stage or in the ring. On a film, I have to dig deep inside; when I dig deep inside, I'm digging for nothing. I'm digging for no applause, I'm digging for no accolades so I'm trying to find out what I'm digging for. I'm a very shallow person, I'm very physical; I have to have the audience, I have to see the people's faces, I have to feel their energy. It's a relationship; they have to talk to me. It's hard to talk to a camera; it doesn't reflect anything back.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Do you see yourself continuing to work in film, even though it's a different working experience than the energy of live performance?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tyson: \u003c/strong>One hundred percent, one hundred percent. My life is the energy of other people, that's how I exist, through other people's energy. Without them, I'm nothing. I'll do acting, I'll do good in movies too, but I'll never be my best. I'll never be my one hundred percent or two hundred percent best.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Do people approach you differently since \u003cem>Undisputed Truth? \u003c/em>\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tyson: \u003c/strong>You know what, you run into kids, 15, 16 that say to their parents \"Hey, Ma, look: that's Mike Tyson the actor.\" And their parents have to explain to them, \"No, he's a world champion boxer.\" A lot of people don't see me like that; they see me as the champ, \"The Baddest Man on the Planet\" or whatever the hell they called me back then. Then the younger generation sees me as an actor. It's really interesting, a really strange dynamic, even to myself. Some people are just not adaptable no matter how great they are, the only flaw they have is no adaptability. I'm a street kid, I'm a gutter kid. I'm from the sewage. My whole life is about adaptability; every step I make is one step out of the sewer and that's in every aspect of my life. My sewer is not the ghetto now: it's a sewer in my mind. Every time I succeed, I'm out of that sewer in my mind.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Check out\u003cstrong> \u003c/strong>\u003c/em>\u003cstrong>\u003ca href=\"http://www.thefoxoakland.com/popartist.php?cID=4125&KeepThis=true&TB_iframe=true&height=600&width=475\">Mike Tyson: Undisputed Truth\u003c/a>\u003c/strong>\u003cem>\u003cstrong> \u003c/strong>on Thursday, October 10 at Oakland's Fox Theater! And\u003c/em> \u003cstrong>\u003ca href=\"http://msn.foxsports.com/watch/being-mike-tyson\">Being Mike Tyson\u003c/a>\u003c/strong>\u003cem> on Tuesdays on Fox Sports 1.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>*Editor's note: Forum had a great interview with Mike Tyson. He coined a new nickname for Michael Krasny: \"The Krazster.\" \u003ca href=\"http://www.kqed.org/a/forum/R201302280930\" target=\"_blank\">Listen to it!\u003c/a>* \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"KQED Pop spoke to Iron Mike about his involvement in Fox Sports' Being series, bringing Undisputed Truth to Oakland's Fox Theater and his new fame with younger generations. ","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1382054266,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":23,"wordCount":1107},"headData":{"title":"Mike Tyson on Working with Spike Lee and Beating His Fiercest Opponent, Self Hate | KQED","description":"KQED Pop spoke to Iron Mike about his involvement in Fox Sports' Being series, bringing Undisputed Truth to Oakland's Fox Theater and his new fame with younger generations. ","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"Article","headline":"Mike Tyson on Working with Spike Lee and Beating His Fiercest Opponent, Self Hate","datePublished":"2013-09-27T16:48:54.000Z","dateModified":"2013-10-17T23:57:46.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}},"disqusIdentifier":"8653 http://blogs.kqed.org/pop/?p=8653","disqusUrl":"https://ww2.kqed.org/pop/2013/09/27/mike-tyson-on-working-with-spike-lee-and-beating-his-fiercest-opponent-self-hate/","disqusTitle":"Mike Tyson on Working with Spike Lee and Beating His Fiercest Opponent, Self Hate","path":"/pop/8653/mike-tyson-on-working-with-spike-lee-and-beating-his-fiercest-opponent-self-hate","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_8658\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 695px\">\u003ca href=\"http://blogs.kqed.org/pop/2013/09/27/mike-tyson-on-working-with-spike-lee-and-beating-his-fiercest-opponent-self-hate/miketyson_spot/\" rel=\"attachment wp-att-8658\">\u003cimg class=\"size-full wp-image-8658\" src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/pop/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2013/09/MikeTyson_spot.jpg\" alt=\"Mike Tyson: Undisputed Truth will be at Oakland's Fox Theater October 10\" width=\"695\" height=\"360\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2013/09/MikeTyson_spot.jpg 695w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2013/09/MikeTyson_spot-400x207.jpg 400w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 695px) 100vw, 695px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Mike Tyson: Undisputed Truth will be at Oakland's Fox Theater October 10\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Returning to the Bay Area by popular demand in his one man show \u003cem>Mike Tyson: Undisputed Truth\u003c/em> on October 10th, \u003cstrong>Mike Tyson\u003c/strong> is embarking on the latest stage in one of the most unexpected career reinventions in recent popular culture. The former undisputed heavyweight champion of the world and youngest boxer to win the WBC, WBA and IBF heavyweight titles has entered a kind of public second act rare in the world of sports since his acclaimed comedic cameo in \u003cem>The Hangover \u003c/em>(think somewhere in the lexicon of vaudeville trouping Babe Ruth or Broadway Joe Namath) and is continuing to ride the wave of new fandom with his six part series \u003cem>Being Mike Tyson. \u003c/em>KQED Pop spoke to Iron Mike about his involvement in Fox Sports' \u003cem>Being\u003c/em> series, bringing \u003cem>Undisputed Truth\u003c/em> to Oakland's Fox Theater and his new fame with younger generations.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop: How does it feel to be coming back to the Bay Area with \u003cem>Undisputed Truth\u003c/em>?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mike Tyson:\u003c/strong> I'm very grateful brother, very grateful.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Spike Lee directed the show before it opened on Broadway (after an initial production in Las Vegas); what was it like working with the Academy Award nominated director?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tyson: \u003c/strong>It was a great opportunity to work with him. He makes you work very hard to get the best out of you. No topics were off limits, not at all. Everything was on the table.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Your six episode series \u003cem>Being Mike Tyson \u003c/em>with Fox Sports follows you as you perform \u003cem>Undisputed Truth \u003c/em>across the country.\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tyson:\u003c/strong> It's a lot about reflecting. I go to the prison where I spent three years (the Plainfield Correctional Facility in Indiana) and go make amends with my warden. It doesn't give you closure; it's an interesting dynamic process that I had to experience in my life. It was good for me to do that. It's something I had to do for me; I didn't do it for no one else.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>In the series, you meet with Muhammad Ali, whom you've described as one of your great personal heroes.\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tyson: \u003c/strong>It was just wonderful spending time with him; I just enjoy being in the man's presence. When you're with him, you realize you're in the presence of someone really special, from a humanity perspective. I've been friends with him many years, since I was 19. It's always a great experience. When I was in a juvenile detention center, Mohamed Ali came to visit and that was the first time I had any information I wanted to be a fighter.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>In the past few years you've had a different kind of public persona emerge in the media.\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tyson: \u003c/strong>Tell me about it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003cem>The Hangover\u003c/em> showed a much lighter, more comedic side of you and that seems to have carried over into other parts of your perception by the public.\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tyson: \u003c/strong>I deal with a great self hate image of myself. So I'm working day by day on liking that image of myself. Regardless of how I act or feel with a low opinion of myself, I know that I'm a great performer. My objective is still to perform magnificently. I want to perform great and that doesn't hold me back in my performance, but it's there in my everyday life and living.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>How do you feel about the difference performing for a live audience versus performing for camera?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tyson: \u003c/strong>I'm a stage performer; I'm at my best in front of a crowd of people feeling their energy when they can tell me what they want without talking. If I'm in the ring, I know what you want without opening your mouth; your energy tells me what you want. It's like you're talking to me telepathically when I'm on stage or in the ring. On a film, I have to dig deep inside; when I dig deep inside, I'm digging for nothing. I'm digging for no applause, I'm digging for no accolades so I'm trying to find out what I'm digging for. I'm a very shallow person, I'm very physical; I have to have the audience, I have to see the people's faces, I have to feel their energy. It's a relationship; they have to talk to me. It's hard to talk to a camera; it doesn't reflect anything back.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Do you see yourself continuing to work in film, even though it's a different working experience than the energy of live performance?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tyson: \u003c/strong>One hundred percent, one hundred percent. My life is the energy of other people, that's how I exist, through other people's energy. Without them, I'm nothing. I'll do acting, I'll do good in movies too, but I'll never be my best. I'll never be my one hundred percent or two hundred percent best.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Do people approach you differently since \u003cem>Undisputed Truth? \u003c/em>\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tyson: \u003c/strong>You know what, you run into kids, 15, 16 that say to their parents \"Hey, Ma, look: that's Mike Tyson the actor.\" And their parents have to explain to them, \"No, he's a world champion boxer.\" A lot of people don't see me like that; they see me as the champ, \"The Baddest Man on the Planet\" or whatever the hell they called me back then. Then the younger generation sees me as an actor. It's really interesting, a really strange dynamic, even to myself. Some people are just not adaptable no matter how great they are, the only flaw they have is no adaptability. I'm a street kid, I'm a gutter kid. I'm from the sewage. My whole life is about adaptability; every step I make is one step out of the sewer and that's in every aspect of my life. My sewer is not the ghetto now: it's a sewer in my mind. Every time I succeed, I'm out of that sewer in my mind.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Check out\u003cstrong> \u003c/strong>\u003c/em>\u003cstrong>\u003ca href=\"http://www.thefoxoakland.com/popartist.php?cID=4125&KeepThis=true&TB_iframe=true&height=600&width=475\">Mike Tyson: Undisputed Truth\u003c/a>\u003c/strong>\u003cem>\u003cstrong> \u003c/strong>on Thursday, October 10 at Oakland's Fox Theater! And\u003c/em> \u003cstrong>\u003ca href=\"http://msn.foxsports.com/watch/being-mike-tyson\">Being Mike Tyson\u003c/a>\u003c/strong>\u003cem> on Tuesdays on Fox Sports 1.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>*Editor's note: Forum had a great interview with Mike Tyson. He coined a new nickname for Michael Krasny: \"The Krazster.\" \u003ca href=\"http://www.kqed.org/a/forum/R201302280930\" target=\"_blank\">Listen to it!\u003c/a>* \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/pop/8653/mike-tyson-on-working-with-spike-lee-and-beating-his-fiercest-opponent-self-hate","authors":["2436"],"categories":["pop_7","pop_3"],"tags":["pop_277","pop_99","pop_29","pop_275","pop_761","pop_1244","pop_279"],"featImg":"pop_8661","label":"pop"},"pop_6472":{"type":"posts","id":"pop_6472","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"pop","id":"6472","score":null,"sort":[1372942840000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"jim-rash-and-nat-faxon-on-the-way-way-back","title":"Jim Rash and Nat Faxon on The Way, Way Back","publishDate":1372942840,"format":"aside","headTitle":"KQED Pop | KQED Arts","labelTerm":{"site":"pop"},"content":"\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_6499\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 640px\">\u003ca href=\"http://blogs.kqed.org/pop/2013/07/04/jim-rash-and-nat-faxon-on-the-way-way-back/waywayback_bloomberg_02-1024x682/\" rel=\"attachment wp-att-6499\">\u003cimg class=\" wp-image-6499\" src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/pop/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2013/07/WayWayBack_Bloomberg_02-1024x6821.jpg\" alt=\"WayWayBack_Bloomberg_02-1024x682\" width=\"640\" height=\"411\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2013/07/WayWayBack_Bloomberg_02-1024x6821.jpg 640w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2013/07/WayWayBack_Bloomberg_02-1024x6821-400x256.jpg 400w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 640px) 100vw, 640px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Nat Faxon (L) and Jim Rash (R) wrote and directed the new film, The Way, Way Back/ Photo: Sara Bloomberg\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Summer is the season of nostalgia and coming of age stories (think \u003cem>Dirty Dancing\u003c/em>, \u003cem>The Sandlot\u003c/em>, \u003cem>Stand By Me\u003c/em>,\u003cem> Adventureland\u003c/em>) and the new film\u003cem> The Way, Way Back\u003c/em> is a true summertime coming of age story. It's longtime writing partners Nat Faxon and Jim Rash (Academy Award winners for \u003cem>The Descendants!\u003c/em>) feature-film directing debut and the cast is phenomenal. Fourteen-year-old Duncan (\u003ca href=\"http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0416699/?ref_=sr_1\">Liam James\u003c/a>), is on a summer vacation with his mother, Pam (\u003ca href=\"http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001057/\">Toni Collette\u003c/a>), her overbearing boyfriend, Trent (\u003ca href=\"http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0136797/?ref_=sr_1\">Steve Carell\u003c/a>), and his daughter, Steph (\u003ca href=\"http://www.imdb.com/name/nm4534201/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1\">Zoe Levin\u003c/a>). Having a rough time fitting in, the introverted Duncan finds an unexpected friend in Owen (\u003ca href=\"http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0005377/?ref_=sr_1\">Sam Rockwell\u003c/a>), the gregarious manager of the Water Wizz Water Park. Through his funny, clandestine friendship with Owen, Duncan slowly opens up to and begins to finally find his place in the world all during a summer he will never forget.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_6500\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 640px\">\u003ca href=\"http://blogs.kqed.org/pop/2013/07/04/jim-rash-and-nat-faxon-on-the-way-way-back/web_size-1-2/\" rel=\"attachment wp-att-6500\">\u003cimg class=\"size-full wp-image-6500\" src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/pop/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2013/07/web_size-11.jpg\" alt=\"web_size-1\" width=\"640\" height=\"358\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2013/07/web_size-11.jpg 640w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2013/07/web_size-11-400x223.jpg 400w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 640px) 100vw, 640px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The Way, Way Back/Photo: Fox Searchlight Pictures\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The movie reminded me of two of my favorite off-beat comedies: \u003cem>\u003ca href=\"http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0467406/?ref_=sr_2\">Juno\u003c/a>\u003c/em> and \u003ca href=\"http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0449059/?ref_=sr_1\" target=\"_blank\">\u003cem>Little Miss Sunshine\u003c/em>\u003c/a>. I was beyond excited to interview Rash and Faxon. I adore them. You likely know them best as Ben from \u003cem>\u003ca href=\"http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2177491/\">Ben & Kate\u003c/a>\u003c/em> and Dean Pelton from \u003cem>\u003ca href=\"http://www.nbc.com/community/\">Community\u003c/a>\u003c/em>. They pop up in this film too, which they wrote, and directed. The movie opens July 5.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Here’s the trailer:\u003c/p>\n\u003cdiv class=\"single-video\">\u003ciframe src=\"//www.youtube.com/embed/OwNo1i3jkCo\" frameborder=\"0\" width=\"560\" height=\"315\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/div>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop:\u003c/strong> I really enjoyed the film. I heard people gave it a standing ovation at the Sundance Film Festival and I can see why. It was very heartfelt. For anyone who has not yet seen the movie, tell us a little bit about it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jim:\u003c/strong> The movie is a coming age story about Duncan, played by Liam James. His mother Pam, played by the fantastic Toni Collette, is in the early stages of a questionable relationship with Steve Carell’s character, Trent. Duncan is confronted by Trent who wants Duncan to rate himself on a scale of 1 to 10. Trent thinks Duncan is a 3. This basically challenges Duncan to go out and discover the beach community they are going to. Subsequently, Duncan discovers this eclectic water park where he finds acceptance. Sam Rockwell plays the manager and what proceeds is this right-of-passage for Duncan as he comes into this own. Eventually, hopefully, he reconnects with his mom.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop:\u003c/strong> Thematically, the movie is a classic coming-of-age tale and about finding yourself with the backdrop of this “blended” family. You both co-wrote this screenplay. Did you draw upon your own background?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jim:\u003c/strong> For sure. I think a lot of it is pulling from experiences that we connect with.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop:\u003c/strong> Are there any autobiographical scenes in the movie?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jim:\u003c/strong> Absolutely. The first scene in movie literally happened to me when I was 14-years-old. My stepfather and I had the exact same conversation on our way to our summer vacation to Michigan. Our second year of going he asked me what I thought I was on a scale from 1 to 10. I went with “above average.” Nat thought I was shooting too high. (laughter)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nat:\u003c/strong> Still way too high. (laughter)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jim:\u003c/strong> My stepfather went with a “3” like Duncan in the movie and we had that same conversation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop:\u003c/strong> Were you in the back of a station wagon, also?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jim:\u003c/strong> Oh yeah. It was in a station wagon.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop:\u003c/strong> Same make and model?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jim:\u003c/strong> We might have had a 1970 Buick. This movie isn’t set in 1970. I wasn’t born yet…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nat:\u003c/strong> Uh...(laughter)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jim:\u003c/strong> But, one year later I was. Just calm down, Nat. (laughter)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nat:\u003c/strong> I was gonna say…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop:\u003c/strong> You are clearly best friends.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nat:\u003c/strong> Best friends. Oh yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jim:\u003c/strong> We’ve known each other for 15 years. So, yes. I would imagine so.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_6501\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 640px\">\u003ca href=\"http://blogs.kqed.org/pop/2013/07/04/jim-rash-and-nat-faxon-on-the-way-way-back/web_size-3/\" rel=\"attachment wp-att-6501\">\u003cimg class=\" wp-image-6501 \" src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/pop/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2013/07/web_size1.jpg\" alt=\"web_size\" width=\"640\" height=\"427\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2013/07/web_size1.jpg 640w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2013/07/web_size1-400x266.jpg 400w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 640px) 100vw, 640px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Filmmakers Jim Rash and Nat Faxon//Photo: Fox Searchlight Pictures\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop:\u003c/strong> Why did you choose a water park as a central location in the movie?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jim:\u003c/strong> Nat and I both grew up on the East Coast on the north shore Boston area. We both had a fondness for destination vacations. We both went to Nantucket. Nat can speak more to that. But, just that idea of the same people going to a place and reconnecting every year. That sort of theme was important to the movie, as well as a lot of water parks we would go to. It was just a ripe place for comedy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop:\u003c/strong> Nat, did you also draw upon your own experiences as a teenager when writing the script?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nat:\u003c/strong> Not as specifically as Jim. Certainly, going to a beach location every summer and having those experiences. Nine months out of the year you are in school. Things change, but every summer you always come back to a place where things never seem to change. I certainly experienced that. I had an older cousin that was definitely a mentor to me growing up and I remember the summer where I became less of the boyish cousin and more of the “friend” who was taken along to hang out with his friends and go on surf trips and things like that. Certainly we always try to pull from our own experiences. Even our friends and co-worker’s experiences--delving into what makes them tick and why they are they way they are and the choices they’ve made. I think those things will always influence our writing—whether it be very specifically, like what happened with Jim or just in general.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_6502\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 640px\">\u003ca href=\"http://blogs.kqed.org/pop/2013/07/04/jim-rash-and-nat-faxon-on-the-way-way-back/web_size-2-2/\" rel=\"attachment wp-att-6502\">\u003cimg class=\"size-full wp-image-6502\" src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/pop/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2013/07/web_size-21.jpg\" alt=\"web_size-2\" width=\"640\" height=\"426\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2013/07/web_size-21.jpg 640w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2013/07/web_size-21-400x266.jpg 400w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 640px) 100vw, 640px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Jim Rash and Nat Faxon with Liam James/Photo: Fox Searchlight\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop:\u003c/strong> Do you have any general examples of how your everyday life has influenced the script?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nat:\u003c/strong> Yeah. The scene where Allison Janney is ranting about everything that has happened to her over the year is slightly based on those Christmas letters that you get that are Xeroxed copies that ramble through everything that has happened to that family.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop:\u003c/strong> That nobody really cares about?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nat:\u003c/strong> Right. The job promotions and the Little League. We had a good friend who got a really negative letter that talked about all the horrible things that happened. That loosely inspired the scene with Allison. We are always looking for things that we can connect to personally.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop:\u003c/strong> If a young person, like the character Duncan, is out there in the audience watching this film, what do you want he or she to take away from the movie? That life gets better? Like the \u003ca href=\"http://www.itgetsbetter.org\">It Gets Better Campaign\u003c/a>, sort of thing. What can they take away from the movie? That life won’t always be as hard as adolescence?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jim:\u003c/strong> For sure. I think coming of age and rite of passage has this sense of hope. It’s institutionally in this tale. Most of time we look back and have a fond memory of whatever our rite of passage was, whether it’s dramatic or just an inspirational night which unleashed this personality trait that was so deeply hidden within us. I hope that young adults walk away making this connection.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop:\u003c/strong> Pam, Duncan’s mom, also seems to be having her own life crisis.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jim:\u003c/strong> Right. Toni Collette’s character is going through a rite-of-passage, too. Everyone in the movie is in transition. In a sense, they are going to that “next chapter.” That moment where they need to make a change or a move to evolve.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop:\u003c/strong> Tell me more about young Duncan.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jim:\u003c/strong> For someone watching Duncan, it’s the idea that there are going to be people in your life that might provide hurdles and difficult times. There are also going to be people to nurture and to help you on your way. Both of them are going to serve purposes that you may not understand right away, but you are probably going to understand in context much later down the road. The important thing is to hear loud and clear the voices that are nurturing you and hear what the people are saying that’s hard to hear, too. Just acknowledge what they are saying and then you make that choice of how that will impact you. We need to be open and understanding when someone criticizes you, but you don’t necessarily need to be around that person.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop:\u003c/strong> You both also co-wrote the Academy-Award winning screenplay for \u003cem>\u003ca href=\"http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1033575/?ref_=fn_al_tt_5\">The Descendents\u003c/a>\u003c/em>. So, you’ve worked with George Clooney. And, now you’ve worked with Steve Carell. Some people may wonder. George. Steve. Who is hotter in person? Who is the “sexier leading man?”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nat and Jim\u003c/strong>: (Laughter)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jim:\u003c/strong> That’s exactly what goes through our brain when we first met them. I don’t know which one is hotter. That’s a difficult toss-up.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nat:\u003c/strong> It’s kind of like the “Ginger and Mary Ann” debate. Don’t you think?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop:\u003c/strong> Yeah, I see that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jim:\u003c/strong> They are both equal. It depends on your taste.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nat:\u003c/strong> Exactly. It depends on your taste. If you want the nice, next-door neighbor type, you are probably more into Carell. If you want the dreamy, model then maybe you are into Clooney.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop:\u003c/strong> Do you both have that same problem?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nat:\u003c/strong> Oh yeah. A lot of people ask the same question of Jim and I. (laughter) Whose the bigger eye candy?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop:\u003c/strong> Who usually wins?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jim:\u003c/strong> I lose a lot.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nat:\u003c/strong> Jim! Jim!\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jim:\u003c/strong> Ah, well thank you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop:\u003c/strong> You are in beautiful San Francisco. Have you been here before?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jim:\u003c/strong> Oh yes. Many times. Both of us love it. I have friends here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop:\u003c/strong> Are you going to do anything fun while visiting?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jim:\u003c/strong> No, we are going to be swept away to Sacramento to promote the new movie.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop:\u003c/strong> Have fun. Sacramento is not quite as charming as San Francisco.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jim:\u003c/strong> No, no. (laughter)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop:\u003c/strong> Thank you so much, guys. It has been a pleasure and good luck with the new movie.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"http://www.foxsearchlight.com/thewaywayback/?gclid=CMv84NW9kbgCFYiDQgodUXUACg\" target=\"_blank\">\u003cem>The Way, Way Back \u003c/em>is in theaters starting July, 5.\u003c/a> Go see it!\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"Get to know creative forces behind the coming-of-age story of the summer.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1382053465,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":true,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":58,"wordCount":1757},"headData":{"title":"Jim Rash and Nat Faxon on The Way, Way Back | KQED","description":"Get to know creative forces behind the coming-of-age story of the summer.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"Article","headline":"Jim Rash and Nat Faxon on The Way, Way Back","datePublished":"2013-07-04T13:00:40.000Z","dateModified":"2013-10-17T23:44:25.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}},"disqusIdentifier":"6472 http://blogs.kqed.org/pop/?p=6472","disqusUrl":"https://ww2.kqed.org/pop/2013/07/04/jim-rash-and-nat-faxon-on-the-way-way-back/","disqusTitle":"Jim Rash and Nat Faxon on The Way, Way Back","path":"/pop/6472/jim-rash-and-nat-faxon-on-the-way-way-back","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_6499\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 640px\">\u003ca href=\"http://blogs.kqed.org/pop/2013/07/04/jim-rash-and-nat-faxon-on-the-way-way-back/waywayback_bloomberg_02-1024x682/\" rel=\"attachment wp-att-6499\">\u003cimg class=\" wp-image-6499\" src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/pop/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2013/07/WayWayBack_Bloomberg_02-1024x6821.jpg\" alt=\"WayWayBack_Bloomberg_02-1024x682\" width=\"640\" height=\"411\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2013/07/WayWayBack_Bloomberg_02-1024x6821.jpg 640w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2013/07/WayWayBack_Bloomberg_02-1024x6821-400x256.jpg 400w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 640px) 100vw, 640px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Nat Faxon (L) and Jim Rash (R) wrote and directed the new film, The Way, Way Back/ Photo: Sara Bloomberg\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Summer is the season of nostalgia and coming of age stories (think \u003cem>Dirty Dancing\u003c/em>, \u003cem>The Sandlot\u003c/em>, \u003cem>Stand By Me\u003c/em>,\u003cem> Adventureland\u003c/em>) and the new film\u003cem> The Way, Way Back\u003c/em> is a true summertime coming of age story. It's longtime writing partners Nat Faxon and Jim Rash (Academy Award winners for \u003cem>The Descendants!\u003c/em>) feature-film directing debut and the cast is phenomenal. Fourteen-year-old Duncan (\u003ca href=\"http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0416699/?ref_=sr_1\">Liam James\u003c/a>), is on a summer vacation with his mother, Pam (\u003ca href=\"http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001057/\">Toni Collette\u003c/a>), her overbearing boyfriend, Trent (\u003ca href=\"http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0136797/?ref_=sr_1\">Steve Carell\u003c/a>), and his daughter, Steph (\u003ca href=\"http://www.imdb.com/name/nm4534201/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1\">Zoe Levin\u003c/a>). Having a rough time fitting in, the introverted Duncan finds an unexpected friend in Owen (\u003ca href=\"http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0005377/?ref_=sr_1\">Sam Rockwell\u003c/a>), the gregarious manager of the Water Wizz Water Park. Through his funny, clandestine friendship with Owen, Duncan slowly opens up to and begins to finally find his place in the world all during a summer he will never forget.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_6500\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 640px\">\u003ca href=\"http://blogs.kqed.org/pop/2013/07/04/jim-rash-and-nat-faxon-on-the-way-way-back/web_size-1-2/\" rel=\"attachment wp-att-6500\">\u003cimg class=\"size-full wp-image-6500\" src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/pop/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2013/07/web_size-11.jpg\" alt=\"web_size-1\" width=\"640\" height=\"358\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2013/07/web_size-11.jpg 640w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2013/07/web_size-11-400x223.jpg 400w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 640px) 100vw, 640px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The Way, Way Back/Photo: Fox Searchlight Pictures\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The movie reminded me of two of my favorite off-beat comedies: \u003cem>\u003ca href=\"http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0467406/?ref_=sr_2\">Juno\u003c/a>\u003c/em> and \u003ca href=\"http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0449059/?ref_=sr_1\" target=\"_blank\">\u003cem>Little Miss Sunshine\u003c/em>\u003c/a>. I was beyond excited to interview Rash and Faxon. I adore them. You likely know them best as Ben from \u003cem>\u003ca href=\"http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2177491/\">Ben & Kate\u003c/a>\u003c/em> and Dean Pelton from \u003cem>\u003ca href=\"http://www.nbc.com/community/\">Community\u003c/a>\u003c/em>. They pop up in this film too, which they wrote, and directed. The movie opens July 5.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Here’s the trailer:\u003c/p>\n\u003cdiv class=\"single-video\">\u003ciframe src=\"//www.youtube.com/embed/OwNo1i3jkCo\" frameborder=\"0\" width=\"560\" height=\"315\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/div>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop:\u003c/strong> I really enjoyed the film. I heard people gave it a standing ovation at the Sundance Film Festival and I can see why. It was very heartfelt. For anyone who has not yet seen the movie, tell us a little bit about it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jim:\u003c/strong> The movie is a coming age story about Duncan, played by Liam James. His mother Pam, played by the fantastic Toni Collette, is in the early stages of a questionable relationship with Steve Carell’s character, Trent. Duncan is confronted by Trent who wants Duncan to rate himself on a scale of 1 to 10. Trent thinks Duncan is a 3. This basically challenges Duncan to go out and discover the beach community they are going to. Subsequently, Duncan discovers this eclectic water park where he finds acceptance. Sam Rockwell plays the manager and what proceeds is this right-of-passage for Duncan as he comes into this own. Eventually, hopefully, he reconnects with his mom.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop:\u003c/strong> Thematically, the movie is a classic coming-of-age tale and about finding yourself with the backdrop of this “blended” family. You both co-wrote this screenplay. Did you draw upon your own background?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jim:\u003c/strong> For sure. I think a lot of it is pulling from experiences that we connect with.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop:\u003c/strong> Are there any autobiographical scenes in the movie?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jim:\u003c/strong> Absolutely. The first scene in movie literally happened to me when I was 14-years-old. My stepfather and I had the exact same conversation on our way to our summer vacation to Michigan. Our second year of going he asked me what I thought I was on a scale from 1 to 10. I went with “above average.” Nat thought I was shooting too high. (laughter)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nat:\u003c/strong> Still way too high. (laughter)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jim:\u003c/strong> My stepfather went with a “3” like Duncan in the movie and we had that same conversation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop:\u003c/strong> Were you in the back of a station wagon, also?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jim:\u003c/strong> Oh yeah. It was in a station wagon.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop:\u003c/strong> Same make and model?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jim:\u003c/strong> We might have had a 1970 Buick. This movie isn’t set in 1970. I wasn’t born yet…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nat:\u003c/strong> Uh...(laughter)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jim:\u003c/strong> But, one year later I was. Just calm down, Nat. (laughter)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nat:\u003c/strong> I was gonna say…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop:\u003c/strong> You are clearly best friends.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nat:\u003c/strong> Best friends. Oh yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jim:\u003c/strong> We’ve known each other for 15 years. So, yes. I would imagine so.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_6501\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 640px\">\u003ca href=\"http://blogs.kqed.org/pop/2013/07/04/jim-rash-and-nat-faxon-on-the-way-way-back/web_size-3/\" rel=\"attachment wp-att-6501\">\u003cimg class=\" wp-image-6501 \" src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/pop/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2013/07/web_size1.jpg\" alt=\"web_size\" width=\"640\" height=\"427\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2013/07/web_size1.jpg 640w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2013/07/web_size1-400x266.jpg 400w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 640px) 100vw, 640px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Filmmakers Jim Rash and Nat Faxon//Photo: Fox Searchlight Pictures\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop:\u003c/strong> Why did you choose a water park as a central location in the movie?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jim:\u003c/strong> Nat and I both grew up on the East Coast on the north shore Boston area. We both had a fondness for destination vacations. We both went to Nantucket. Nat can speak more to that. But, just that idea of the same people going to a place and reconnecting every year. That sort of theme was important to the movie, as well as a lot of water parks we would go to. It was just a ripe place for comedy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop:\u003c/strong> Nat, did you also draw upon your own experiences as a teenager when writing the script?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nat:\u003c/strong> Not as specifically as Jim. Certainly, going to a beach location every summer and having those experiences. Nine months out of the year you are in school. Things change, but every summer you always come back to a place where things never seem to change. I certainly experienced that. I had an older cousin that was definitely a mentor to me growing up and I remember the summer where I became less of the boyish cousin and more of the “friend” who was taken along to hang out with his friends and go on surf trips and things like that. Certainly we always try to pull from our own experiences. Even our friends and co-worker’s experiences--delving into what makes them tick and why they are they way they are and the choices they’ve made. I think those things will always influence our writing—whether it be very specifically, like what happened with Jim or just in general.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_6502\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 640px\">\u003ca href=\"http://blogs.kqed.org/pop/2013/07/04/jim-rash-and-nat-faxon-on-the-way-way-back/web_size-2-2/\" rel=\"attachment wp-att-6502\">\u003cimg class=\"size-full wp-image-6502\" src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/pop/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2013/07/web_size-21.jpg\" alt=\"web_size-2\" width=\"640\" height=\"426\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2013/07/web_size-21.jpg 640w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2013/07/web_size-21-400x266.jpg 400w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 640px) 100vw, 640px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Jim Rash and Nat Faxon with Liam James/Photo: Fox Searchlight\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop:\u003c/strong> Do you have any general examples of how your everyday life has influenced the script?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nat:\u003c/strong> Yeah. The scene where Allison Janney is ranting about everything that has happened to her over the year is slightly based on those Christmas letters that you get that are Xeroxed copies that ramble through everything that has happened to that family.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop:\u003c/strong> That nobody really cares about?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nat:\u003c/strong> Right. The job promotions and the Little League. We had a good friend who got a really negative letter that talked about all the horrible things that happened. That loosely inspired the scene with Allison. We are always looking for things that we can connect to personally.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop:\u003c/strong> If a young person, like the character Duncan, is out there in the audience watching this film, what do you want he or she to take away from the movie? That life gets better? Like the \u003ca href=\"http://www.itgetsbetter.org\">It Gets Better Campaign\u003c/a>, sort of thing. What can they take away from the movie? That life won’t always be as hard as adolescence?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jim:\u003c/strong> For sure. I think coming of age and rite of passage has this sense of hope. It’s institutionally in this tale. Most of time we look back and have a fond memory of whatever our rite of passage was, whether it’s dramatic or just an inspirational night which unleashed this personality trait that was so deeply hidden within us. I hope that young adults walk away making this connection.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop:\u003c/strong> Pam, Duncan’s mom, also seems to be having her own life crisis.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jim:\u003c/strong> Right. Toni Collette’s character is going through a rite-of-passage, too. Everyone in the movie is in transition. In a sense, they are going to that “next chapter.” That moment where they need to make a change or a move to evolve.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop:\u003c/strong> Tell me more about young Duncan.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jim:\u003c/strong> For someone watching Duncan, it’s the idea that there are going to be people in your life that might provide hurdles and difficult times. There are also going to be people to nurture and to help you on your way. Both of them are going to serve purposes that you may not understand right away, but you are probably going to understand in context much later down the road. The important thing is to hear loud and clear the voices that are nurturing you and hear what the people are saying that’s hard to hear, too. Just acknowledge what they are saying and then you make that choice of how that will impact you. We need to be open and understanding when someone criticizes you, but you don’t necessarily need to be around that person.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop:\u003c/strong> You both also co-wrote the Academy-Award winning screenplay for \u003cem>\u003ca href=\"http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1033575/?ref_=fn_al_tt_5\">The Descendents\u003c/a>\u003c/em>. So, you’ve worked with George Clooney. And, now you’ve worked with Steve Carell. Some people may wonder. George. Steve. Who is hotter in person? Who is the “sexier leading man?”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nat and Jim\u003c/strong>: (Laughter)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jim:\u003c/strong> That’s exactly what goes through our brain when we first met them. I don’t know which one is hotter. That’s a difficult toss-up.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nat:\u003c/strong> It’s kind of like the “Ginger and Mary Ann” debate. Don’t you think?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop:\u003c/strong> Yeah, I see that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jim:\u003c/strong> They are both equal. It depends on your taste.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nat:\u003c/strong> Exactly. It depends on your taste. If you want the nice, next-door neighbor type, you are probably more into Carell. If you want the dreamy, model then maybe you are into Clooney.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop:\u003c/strong> Do you both have that same problem?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nat:\u003c/strong> Oh yeah. A lot of people ask the same question of Jim and I. (laughter) Whose the bigger eye candy?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop:\u003c/strong> Who usually wins?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jim:\u003c/strong> I lose a lot.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nat:\u003c/strong> Jim! Jim!\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jim:\u003c/strong> Ah, well thank you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop:\u003c/strong> You are in beautiful San Francisco. Have you been here before?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jim:\u003c/strong> Oh yes. Many times. Both of us love it. I have friends here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop:\u003c/strong> Are you going to do anything fun while visiting?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jim:\u003c/strong> No, we are going to be swept away to Sacramento to promote the new movie.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop:\u003c/strong> Have fun. Sacramento is not quite as charming as San Francisco.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jim:\u003c/strong> No, no. (laughter)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop:\u003c/strong> Thank you so much, guys. It has been a pleasure and good luck with the new movie.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"http://www.foxsearchlight.com/thewaywayback/?gclid=CMv84NW9kbgCFYiDQgodUXUACg\" target=\"_blank\">\u003cem>The Way, Way Back \u003c/em>is in theaters starting July, 5.\u003c/a> Go see it!\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/pop/6472/jim-rash-and-nat-faxon-on-the-way-way-back","authors":["2451"],"categories":["pop_51"],"tags":["pop_556","pop_29","pop_987","pop_986","pop_985","pop_991","pop_949","pop_990"],"featImg":"pop_6500","label":"pop"},"pop_5747":{"type":"posts","id":"pop_5747","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"pop","id":"5747","score":null,"sort":[1371061951000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"getting-the-dirt-on-our-dirty-wars-abroad-jeremy-scahill-middle-east","title":"Getting the Dirt on Our \"Dirty Wars\" Abroad","publishDate":1371061951,"format":"aside","headTitle":"KQED Pop | KQED Arts","labelTerm":{"site":"pop"},"content":"\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_5793\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 640px\">\u003ca href=\"http://blogs.kqed.org/pop/2013/06/12/getting-the-dirt-on-our-dirty-wars-abroad-jeremy-scahill-middle-east/dirty-1/\" rel=\"attachment wp-att-5793\">\u003cimg class=\"size-full wp-image-5793\" src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/pop/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2013/06/dirty-1.jpg\" alt=\"Jeremy Scahill in Somalia making Dirty Wars. Photo: IFC Films\" width=\"640\" height=\"360\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2013/06/dirty-1.jpg 640w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2013/06/dirty-1-400x225.jpg 400w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 640px) 100vw, 640px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Jeremy Scahill in Somalia making \u003cem>Dirty Wars\u003c/em>. Photo: IFC Films\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Whether he's bringing to light the crimes of Iraq War defense contractor Blackwater in his 2007 book \u003cem>Blackwater: The Rise of the World's Most Powerful Mercenary Army \u003c/em>or covering national security for \u003cem>The Nation\u003c/em>, Jeremy Scahill asks the questions we don't know we should be asking. His latest topic is the series of expanding covert wars secretly conducted by the United States around the world in his new book and documentary \u003cem>Dirty Wars \u003c/em>(in Bay Area theaters Friday, June 14)\u003cem>. \u003c/em>We recently talked to Scahill about the documentary, his time investigating U.S. attacks in Yemen and Afghanistan, what JSOC is (and why you should care), and where he feels more in danger: war zones or Washington D.C.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop: The first thing I have to ask after reading the book and seeing the documentary is, of course; is Yemen really the greatest threat to the external security of the United States?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jeremy Scahill: \u003c/strong>No, I think there's a wild exaggeration to the threat terrorism poses to our country in general. It's not that there isn't a threat: there are definitely people plotting to blow up U.S. airplanes, bomb our subways, set off an explosive in Times Square. Those things are real. The question is: how much of a threat is it and how best to deal with it? I've come to the conclusion after spending a lot of time in Yemen and Somalia and Afghanistan and elsewhere that, when we're doing these drone strikes and we don't actually know who we're killing, we're pursuing a relatively small group of people and in the process we're harming a larger numbers of civilians. I think we're increasing the threat to our national security, not diminishing it. We're inspiring new generations, not necessarily of terrorists, but enemies, people with a legitimate score to settle. It's almost laughable the idea that Yemen is this great external threat. We're talking about a few hundred people living in desserts that dream all day of blowing up an American airplane and we should address that, but we're making the problem worse the way we're handling it. The threat is real, our approach is wrong.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_5794\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 640px\">\u003ca href=\"http://blogs.kqed.org/pop/2013/06/12/getting-the-dirt-on-our-dirty-wars-abroad-jeremy-scahill-middle-east/dirty-2/\" rel=\"attachment wp-att-5794\">\u003cimg class=\"size-full wp-image-5794\" src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/pop/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2013/06/dirty-2.jpg\" alt=\"Jeremy Scahill in Yemen. Photo: Richard Rowley/ IFC Films\" width=\"640\" height=\"350\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2013/06/dirty-2.jpg 640w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2013/06/dirty-2-400x218.jpg 400w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 640px) 100vw, 640px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Jeremy Scahill in Yemen. Photo: Richard Rowley/ IFC Films\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>One of the cornerstones of the book and documentary is the \u003cstrong>Joint Special Operations Command\u003c/strong>. What do Americans need to know about JSOC and what it's doing in our name?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003cstrong>Scahill\u003c/strong>: \u003c/strong>JSOC is the most elite military unit in US history.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>These are the \u003cem>Zero Dark Thirty \u003c/em>guys?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003cstrong>Scahill\u003c/strong>: \u003c/strong>Right, most Americans have now heard of Seal Team 6, the guys that did the bin Laden raid. Disney even tried to copyright the name \"Seal Team 6\" after the raid. They failed to get the copyright, but they tried to. Seal Team 6 is one of the parts of JSOC: you have the seals, delta force and army rangers. It's basically like an all-star team of the military. Historically, it's been used in a very surgical way for counter-proliferation, counter-terrorism, hostage crisis. It's exempt from the Posse Comitatus Act, meaning that they can operate on U.S. soil. They do discreet security at the Olympics and at the inauguration. After 9/11, Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld really made JSOC the premier force. The reason that JSOC is attractive to an administration that believes in the Executive Branch as a basic dictatorship when it comes to American foreign policy is because there's very little effective congressional oversight. You can send them into countries that we're not at war with under a doctrine called Operational Preparation of the Battle Space. These guys are basically Murder Inc. in the words of one special forces colonial that I interviewed. They are devastatingly good at what they do. If they're told to snatch someone, that person will get snatched, or if they're told to kill someone, that person will be killed. The problem is, now we're using this force that has almost no rules governing it and we're using it like a sledge hammer when it used to be used as a scalpel. These guys are the most elite force, they report directly to the White House, they were intended to be used for surgical operations; they have now become the policy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>JSOC was around prior to Bush, they were founded in the 1980s?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003cstrong>Scahill\u003c/strong>: \u003c/strong>They started in 1980 because of the failed hostage situation in Iran, you know, the \u003cem>Argo \u003c/em>stuff.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_5795\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 640px\">\u003ca href=\"http://blogs.kqed.org/pop/2013/06/12/getting-the-dirt-on-our-dirty-wars-abroad-jeremy-scahill-middle-east/dirty-3/\" rel=\"attachment wp-att-5795\">\u003cimg class=\"size-full wp-image-5795\" src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/pop/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2013/06/dirty-3.jpg\" alt=\"Jeremy Scahill in Afghanistan. Photo: Richard Rowley/ IFC Films \" width=\"640\" height=\"360\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2013/06/dirty-3.jpg 640w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2013/06/dirty-3-400x225.jpg 400w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 640px) 100vw, 640px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Jeremy Scahill in Afghanistan. Photo: Richard Rowley/ IFC Films\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003cstrong>Thanks for tying that into a major motion picture for our pop blog readers.\u003c/strong> So we're almost out of time but I wanted to ask, when you're working on a documentary as opposed to just working on a piece for \u003cem>The Nation\u003c/em> in these closed societies, does the camera give you any special permission to go to these dangerous places in a relatively safe way?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003cstrong>Scahill\u003c/strong>: \u003c/strong>In theory, you should have protections: journalists are protected under international laws and conventions, but record numbers of journalists have been killed in the past ten years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>And you seem to keep reporting from places where journalists have been killed or in danger in recent years.\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003cstrong>Scahill\u003c/strong>: \u003c/strong>We tell the story in the film of this journalist in Yemen, Abdulelah Haider Shaye, who is in jail in part because President Obama told the Yemeni president he wants him to stay in jail. He was arrested for exposing the U.S. bombing there that Yemen had taken responsibility for and tried to cover up the U.S. role in. He's sentenced to five years in jail for being an Al Qaeda facilitator which is complete nonsense, he's a well known and respected journalist. A week of two after we left Somalia, a cameraman was killed doing what we were doing, riding on the backs of trucks with militia members. We felt really lucky to have gotten out of there and to all be alive.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Final question: where do you feel safer now in light of all the revelations you brought forth about our government: in a place like Yemen where there's a very real danger of getting shot or kidnapped, or Washington D.C.?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003cstrong>Scahill\u003c/strong>: \u003c/strong>(laughing) I certainly prefer Yemen to Washington D.C. although not on a security level. D.C. is such a vapid place. Obviously, I feel safer in my own city, Park Slope in Brooklyn. People ask about risks or threats, I'm not a special person, everyone who does this type of work faces serious struggles, confrontations, occasionally threats. There are journalists in prison, there are journalists who are missing in Syria. There's a young journalist named Austin Tice who has been missing in Syria for over a year. Anthony Shadid, one of my heroes, this great war correspondent, died in Syria. So whenever I'm asked about that I always think of the people that I think are a thousand times braver than I am but also about people who actually have lost their lives or are at great risk as I talk to you sitting in the Ritz Carlton Hotel in San Francisco. It feels so surreal that I'm sitting here talking to you. I should take a picture and send it to my mom.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Dirty Wars\u003c/em>\u003cspan style=\"line-height: 13px\"> opens Friday, June 14, 2013 in select Bay Area theaters.\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"Jeremy Scahill tells us about his new documentary, his time investigating U.S. attacks in Yemen and Afghanistan, and where he feels more in danger: war zones or Washington D.C.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1371070057,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":18,"wordCount":1278},"headData":{"title":"Getting the Dirt on Our \"Dirty Wars\" Abroad | KQED","description":"Jeremy Scahill tells us about his new documentary, his time investigating U.S. attacks in Yemen and Afghanistan, and where he feels more in danger: war zones or Washington D.C.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"Article","headline":"Getting the Dirt on Our \"Dirty Wars\" Abroad","datePublished":"2013-06-12T18:32:31.000Z","dateModified":"2013-06-12T20:47:37.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}},"disqusIdentifier":"5747 http://blogs.kqed.org/pop/?p=5747","disqusUrl":"https://ww2.kqed.org/pop/2013/06/12/getting-the-dirt-on-our-dirty-wars-abroad-jeremy-scahill-middle-east/","disqusTitle":"Getting the Dirt on Our \"Dirty Wars\" Abroad","path":"/pop/5747/getting-the-dirt-on-our-dirty-wars-abroad-jeremy-scahill-middle-east","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_5793\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 640px\">\u003ca href=\"http://blogs.kqed.org/pop/2013/06/12/getting-the-dirt-on-our-dirty-wars-abroad-jeremy-scahill-middle-east/dirty-1/\" rel=\"attachment wp-att-5793\">\u003cimg class=\"size-full wp-image-5793\" src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/pop/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2013/06/dirty-1.jpg\" alt=\"Jeremy Scahill in Somalia making Dirty Wars. Photo: IFC Films\" width=\"640\" height=\"360\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2013/06/dirty-1.jpg 640w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2013/06/dirty-1-400x225.jpg 400w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 640px) 100vw, 640px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Jeremy Scahill in Somalia making \u003cem>Dirty Wars\u003c/em>. Photo: IFC Films\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Whether he's bringing to light the crimes of Iraq War defense contractor Blackwater in his 2007 book \u003cem>Blackwater: The Rise of the World's Most Powerful Mercenary Army \u003c/em>or covering national security for \u003cem>The Nation\u003c/em>, Jeremy Scahill asks the questions we don't know we should be asking. His latest topic is the series of expanding covert wars secretly conducted by the United States around the world in his new book and documentary \u003cem>Dirty Wars \u003c/em>(in Bay Area theaters Friday, June 14)\u003cem>. \u003c/em>We recently talked to Scahill about the documentary, his time investigating U.S. attacks in Yemen and Afghanistan, what JSOC is (and why you should care), and where he feels more in danger: war zones or Washington D.C.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop: The first thing I have to ask after reading the book and seeing the documentary is, of course; is Yemen really the greatest threat to the external security of the United States?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jeremy Scahill: \u003c/strong>No, I think there's a wild exaggeration to the threat terrorism poses to our country in general. It's not that there isn't a threat: there are definitely people plotting to blow up U.S. airplanes, bomb our subways, set off an explosive in Times Square. Those things are real. The question is: how much of a threat is it and how best to deal with it? I've come to the conclusion after spending a lot of time in Yemen and Somalia and Afghanistan and elsewhere that, when we're doing these drone strikes and we don't actually know who we're killing, we're pursuing a relatively small group of people and in the process we're harming a larger numbers of civilians. I think we're increasing the threat to our national security, not diminishing it. We're inspiring new generations, not necessarily of terrorists, but enemies, people with a legitimate score to settle. It's almost laughable the idea that Yemen is this great external threat. We're talking about a few hundred people living in desserts that dream all day of blowing up an American airplane and we should address that, but we're making the problem worse the way we're handling it. The threat is real, our approach is wrong.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_5794\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 640px\">\u003ca href=\"http://blogs.kqed.org/pop/2013/06/12/getting-the-dirt-on-our-dirty-wars-abroad-jeremy-scahill-middle-east/dirty-2/\" rel=\"attachment wp-att-5794\">\u003cimg class=\"size-full wp-image-5794\" src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/pop/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2013/06/dirty-2.jpg\" alt=\"Jeremy Scahill in Yemen. Photo: Richard Rowley/ IFC Films\" width=\"640\" height=\"350\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2013/06/dirty-2.jpg 640w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2013/06/dirty-2-400x218.jpg 400w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 640px) 100vw, 640px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Jeremy Scahill in Yemen. Photo: Richard Rowley/ IFC Films\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>One of the cornerstones of the book and documentary is the \u003cstrong>Joint Special Operations Command\u003c/strong>. What do Americans need to know about JSOC and what it's doing in our name?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003cstrong>Scahill\u003c/strong>: \u003c/strong>JSOC is the most elite military unit in US history.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>These are the \u003cem>Zero Dark Thirty \u003c/em>guys?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003cstrong>Scahill\u003c/strong>: \u003c/strong>Right, most Americans have now heard of Seal Team 6, the guys that did the bin Laden raid. Disney even tried to copyright the name \"Seal Team 6\" after the raid. They failed to get the copyright, but they tried to. Seal Team 6 is one of the parts of JSOC: you have the seals, delta force and army rangers. It's basically like an all-star team of the military. Historically, it's been used in a very surgical way for counter-proliferation, counter-terrorism, hostage crisis. It's exempt from the Posse Comitatus Act, meaning that they can operate on U.S. soil. They do discreet security at the Olympics and at the inauguration. After 9/11, Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld really made JSOC the premier force. The reason that JSOC is attractive to an administration that believes in the Executive Branch as a basic dictatorship when it comes to American foreign policy is because there's very little effective congressional oversight. You can send them into countries that we're not at war with under a doctrine called Operational Preparation of the Battle Space. These guys are basically Murder Inc. in the words of one special forces colonial that I interviewed. They are devastatingly good at what they do. If they're told to snatch someone, that person will get snatched, or if they're told to kill someone, that person will be killed. The problem is, now we're using this force that has almost no rules governing it and we're using it like a sledge hammer when it used to be used as a scalpel. These guys are the most elite force, they report directly to the White House, they were intended to be used for surgical operations; they have now become the policy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>JSOC was around prior to Bush, they were founded in the 1980s?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003cstrong>Scahill\u003c/strong>: \u003c/strong>They started in 1980 because of the failed hostage situation in Iran, you know, the \u003cem>Argo \u003c/em>stuff.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_5795\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 640px\">\u003ca href=\"http://blogs.kqed.org/pop/2013/06/12/getting-the-dirt-on-our-dirty-wars-abroad-jeremy-scahill-middle-east/dirty-3/\" rel=\"attachment wp-att-5795\">\u003cimg class=\"size-full wp-image-5795\" src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/pop/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2013/06/dirty-3.jpg\" alt=\"Jeremy Scahill in Afghanistan. Photo: Richard Rowley/ IFC Films \" width=\"640\" height=\"360\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2013/06/dirty-3.jpg 640w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2013/06/dirty-3-400x225.jpg 400w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 640px) 100vw, 640px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Jeremy Scahill in Afghanistan. Photo: Richard Rowley/ IFC Films\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003cstrong>Thanks for tying that into a major motion picture for our pop blog readers.\u003c/strong> So we're almost out of time but I wanted to ask, when you're working on a documentary as opposed to just working on a piece for \u003cem>The Nation\u003c/em> in these closed societies, does the camera give you any special permission to go to these dangerous places in a relatively safe way?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003cstrong>Scahill\u003c/strong>: \u003c/strong>In theory, you should have protections: journalists are protected under international laws and conventions, but record numbers of journalists have been killed in the past ten years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>And you seem to keep reporting from places where journalists have been killed or in danger in recent years.\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003cstrong>Scahill\u003c/strong>: \u003c/strong>We tell the story in the film of this journalist in Yemen, Abdulelah Haider Shaye, who is in jail in part because President Obama told the Yemeni president he wants him to stay in jail. He was arrested for exposing the U.S. bombing there that Yemen had taken responsibility for and tried to cover up the U.S. role in. He's sentenced to five years in jail for being an Al Qaeda facilitator which is complete nonsense, he's a well known and respected journalist. A week of two after we left Somalia, a cameraman was killed doing what we were doing, riding on the backs of trucks with militia members. We felt really lucky to have gotten out of there and to all be alive.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Final question: where do you feel safer now in light of all the revelations you brought forth about our government: in a place like Yemen where there's a very real danger of getting shot or kidnapped, or Washington D.C.?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003cstrong>Scahill\u003c/strong>: \u003c/strong>(laughing) I certainly prefer Yemen to Washington D.C. although not on a security level. D.C. is such a vapid place. Obviously, I feel safer in my own city, Park Slope in Brooklyn. People ask about risks or threats, I'm not a special person, everyone who does this type of work faces serious struggles, confrontations, occasionally threats. There are journalists in prison, there are journalists who are missing in Syria. There's a young journalist named Austin Tice who has been missing in Syria for over a year. Anthony Shadid, one of my heroes, this great war correspondent, died in Syria. So whenever I'm asked about that I always think of the people that I think are a thousand times braver than I am but also about people who actually have lost their lives or are at great risk as I talk to you sitting in the Ritz Carlton Hotel in San Francisco. It feels so surreal that I'm sitting here talking to you. I should take a picture and send it to my mom.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Dirty Wars\u003c/em>\u003cspan style=\"line-height: 13px\"> opens Friday, June 14, 2013 in select Bay Area theaters.\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/pop/5747/getting-the-dirt-on-our-dirty-wars-abroad-jeremy-scahill-middle-east","authors":["2436"],"categories":["pop_51"],"tags":["pop_896","pop_691","pop_895","pop_29","pop_897"],"featImg":"pop_5793","label":"pop"},"pop_5094":{"type":"posts","id":"pop_5094","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"pop","id":"5094","score":null,"sort":[1369227600000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"peaches-on-her-new-film-her-rock-opera-roots-and-going-all-the-way","title":"Peaches On Her New Film, Rock Opera and Going All the Way","publishDate":1369227600,"format":"aside","headTitle":"KQED Pop | KQED Arts","labelTerm":{"site":"pop"},"content":"\u003cp style=\"text-align: center\">\u003ca href=\"http://blogs.kqed.org/pop/2013/05/22/peaches-on-her-new-film-her-rock-opera-roots-and-going-all-the-way/peaches_does_herself_02/\" rel=\"attachment wp-att-5151\">\u003cimg class=\"wp-image-5151 aligncenter\" src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/pop/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2013/05/Peaches_Does_Herself_02.jpg\" alt=\"Peaches_Does_Herself_02\" width=\"648\" height=\"365\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2013/05/Peaches_Does_Herself_02.jpg 1800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2013/05/Peaches_Does_Herself_02-400x225.jpg 400w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2013/05/Peaches_Does_Herself_02-800x450.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2013/05/Peaches_Does_Herself_02-1440x810.jpg 1440w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 648px) 100vw, 648px\">\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I’m a progressive, liberal feminist woman—I’ve lived in San Francisco's Castro district, walking side by side with naked residents exercising their right to free expression. And I've been to Folsom Street Fair (strictly as an observer). What I mean to say is that it takes a lot to shock me. Yet, even I was caught off guard at the vaginas and strap-on dildos on display in in the new rock documentary \u003cem>Peaches Does Herself,\u003c/em> starring electro-punk artist, Peaches.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Born Merrill Beth Niske, Peaches' (that’s her stage name) has been called shocking, vulgar, lewd and downright nasty. She has toured with Iggy Pop, protested in the streets for the band Pussy Riot and wrote an album protesting President George Bush titled, \u003cem>Impeach My Bush\u003c/em>. Her music has also been featured in several movies including the 2003 hit \u003cem>Lost in Translation\u003c/em>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If you've never had the pleasure of attending a Peaches concert or listening to any of her four albums... beware! They are not for the faint of heart. Expect in your face sexuality and outlandish costumes. The movie is currently on the film festival circuit, screening at the recent San Francisco International Film Festival and will be making stops in Seattle, Buenos Aires, Chicago, Copenhagen and London—just to name a few.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Here's the trailer:\u003c/p>\n\u003cdiv>[youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhNhrKNYvSo&w=560&h=315]\u003c/div>\n\u003cp>I had a chance to interview Peaches on the red carpet at the San Francisco International Film Festival screening of her film. I wasn’t sure what to expect. Would she going prance down the red carpet in leather bondage? Would she even be wearing clothes? Would I need to avert my eyes? None of the above. Despite talking a mile a minute, Peaches was extremely genuine.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Here’s my interview with Peaches.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_5097\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 691px\">\u003ca href=\"http://blogs.kqed.org/pop/2013/05/22/peaches-on-her-new-film-her-rock-opera-roots-and-going-all-the-way/peaches-3/\" rel=\"attachment wp-att-5097\">\u003cimg class=\"wp-image-5097 \" src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/pop/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2013/05/Peaches-3.jpg\" alt=\"Peaches and Sandy Kane on the red carpet at the recent San Francisco International Film Festival.\" width=\"691\" height=\"518\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2013/05/Peaches-3.jpg 1280w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2013/05/Peaches-3-400x300.jpg 400w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2013/05/Peaches-3-800x600.jpg 800w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 691px) 100vw, 691px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Peaches and Sandy Kane on the red carpet at the recent San Francisco International Film Festival.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop:\u003c/strong> Peaches, it is such a pleasure to meet you. Thanks for chatting with me.\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>Peaches:\u003c/strong> Hellooooo radio world.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop:\u003c/strong> Hellooooo Peaches. Your movie is a “rock-opera.” I saw the film this afternoon and noticed there wasn’t any dialogue. Can you tell me about that decision?\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>Peaches:\u003c/strong> Right, there isn’t dialogue. I wanted to take my four albums and create a narrative. An “anti-jukebox” musical.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop:\u003c/strong> Are you a fan of musicals?\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>Peaches:\u003c/strong> I love musicals! I grew up on them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop:\u003c/strong> Really? What are some of your favorites?\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>Peaches:\u003c/strong> I love Busby Berkeley. I love \u003cem>Singin’ in the Rain\u003c/em> and musicals from the 1950s.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop:\u003c/strong> That’s surprising. What about Judy Garland? Does the infamous Peaches derive any inspiration from her work?\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>Peaches:\u003c/strong> I love Judy Garland, of course and the \u003cem>Wizard of Oz\u003c/em>. But, I also grew up in the '70s. At a very young age I saw things like \u003ca href=\"http://youtu.be/2n5qVJEg3qA\" target=\"_blank\">\u003cem>Phantom of the Paradise\u003c/em>\u003c/a>, which is a Brian Depalma rocker version of \u003cem>Phantom of the Opera\u003c/em>. I was also inspired by \u003ca href=\"http://youtu.be/bc80tFJpTuo\" target=\"_blank\">\u003cem>Rocky Horror Picture Show\u003c/em>\u003c/a>. And the 1970s British musical, \u003ca href=\"http://youtu.be/oQE298PYhrg\" target=\"_blank\">\u003cem>Tommy\u003c/em>\u003c/a>, based on rock opera by The Who. Those films are embedded deep in me somewhere.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop:\u003c/strong> Have you ever taken theater or film classes?\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>Peaches:\u003c/strong> I did. I actually studied theater directing. I went to college for that. Then I decided I didn’t want to do it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop:\u003c/strong> Why not?\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>Peaches:\u003c/strong> I didn’t want to have a heart attack by the time I was 30 if I had to think about all the sets and lighting and the actors. I would end up just yelling at people because I couldn’t handle everything.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop:\u003c/strong> How did you go from theater directing to becoming the infamous, “Peaches.”\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>Peaches:\u003c/strong> I dropped out of college and ended up falling into music. I realized with music you can be the writer and director and do all those things I loved. I built the songs and then built the enhancement on top of it. For example, when I did \u003cem>Peaches Does Herself\u003c/em>, it started as a stage show, and then became celebration of ten years of all the work I’m doing. We filmed it just to document it. Robin Thompson, who I work with, he filmed it and edited it in such a fantastic way that we realized we might actually have a film on our hands. We changed the ending to take it out of the stage and make it more like a film. That’s how it went.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop:\u003c/strong> Watching your film reminded me very much of John Cameron Mitchell’s \u003cem>Hedwig and the Angry Inch\u003c/em>. Especially because a few characters were gender ambiguous. Did that musical influence you in any way?\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>Peaches:\u003c/strong> Hello? (laughing) Yeah, yeah definitely. I love that you said that. It’s really cool to be associated with that movie. I just met John Cameron Mitchell. Both John and I are influenced by the same things. Hedwig definitely fits all into the same kind of genre. Another journalist said the same thing, too. He said maybe \u003cem>Peaches Does Herself\u003c/em> is an exploration like Hedwig where there is a complete merge of both genders. So, maybe this is an exercise of what Hedwig is really like in practice.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop:\u003c/strong> The movie has a shock quality to it like large vaginas on screen. Were you going for a shock quality?\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>Peaches:\u003c/strong> I made the decisions to put vaginas on stage because I was thinking of all the misconceptions that people see in me and think of my work. I decided I was going to go full on penis-vagina, vagina-penis. I am going to go all in it, not just break out of it. This was a celebration.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop:\u003c/strong> Thank you so much. It’s been a pleasure.\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"We catch up with Peaches on the red carpet for her new movie: Peaches Does Herself.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1369242472,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":true,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":19,"wordCount":1009},"headData":{"title":"Peaches On Her New Film, Rock Opera and Going All the Way | KQED","description":"We catch up with Peaches on the red carpet for her new movie: Peaches Does Herself.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"Article","headline":"Peaches On Her New Film, Rock Opera and Going All the Way","datePublished":"2013-05-22T13:00:00.000Z","dateModified":"2013-05-22T17:07:52.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}},"disqusIdentifier":"5094 http://blogs.kqed.org/pop/?p=5094","disqusUrl":"https://ww2.kqed.org/pop/2013/05/22/peaches-on-her-new-film-her-rock-opera-roots-and-going-all-the-way/","disqusTitle":"Peaches On Her New Film, Rock Opera and Going All the Way","path":"/pop/5094/peaches-on-her-new-film-her-rock-opera-roots-and-going-all-the-way","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp style=\"text-align: center\">\u003ca href=\"http://blogs.kqed.org/pop/2013/05/22/peaches-on-her-new-film-her-rock-opera-roots-and-going-all-the-way/peaches_does_herself_02/\" rel=\"attachment wp-att-5151\">\u003cimg class=\"wp-image-5151 aligncenter\" src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/pop/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2013/05/Peaches_Does_Herself_02.jpg\" alt=\"Peaches_Does_Herself_02\" width=\"648\" height=\"365\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2013/05/Peaches_Does_Herself_02.jpg 1800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2013/05/Peaches_Does_Herself_02-400x225.jpg 400w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2013/05/Peaches_Does_Herself_02-800x450.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2013/05/Peaches_Does_Herself_02-1440x810.jpg 1440w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 648px) 100vw, 648px\">\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I’m a progressive, liberal feminist woman—I’ve lived in San Francisco's Castro district, walking side by side with naked residents exercising their right to free expression. And I've been to Folsom Street Fair (strictly as an observer). What I mean to say is that it takes a lot to shock me. Yet, even I was caught off guard at the vaginas and strap-on dildos on display in in the new rock documentary \u003cem>Peaches Does Herself,\u003c/em> starring electro-punk artist, Peaches.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Born Merrill Beth Niske, Peaches' (that’s her stage name) has been called shocking, vulgar, lewd and downright nasty. She has toured with Iggy Pop, protested in the streets for the band Pussy Riot and wrote an album protesting President George Bush titled, \u003cem>Impeach My Bush\u003c/em>. Her music has also been featured in several movies including the 2003 hit \u003cem>Lost in Translation\u003c/em>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If you've never had the pleasure of attending a Peaches concert or listening to any of her four albums... beware! They are not for the faint of heart. Expect in your face sexuality and outlandish costumes. The movie is currently on the film festival circuit, screening at the recent San Francisco International Film Festival and will be making stops in Seattle, Buenos Aires, Chicago, Copenhagen and London—just to name a few.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Here's the trailer:\u003c/p>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutube'>\n \u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutubeInside'>\n \u003ciframe\n loading='lazy'\n class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__youtubePlayer'\n type='text/html'\n src='//www.youtube.com/embed/KhNhrKNYvSo'\n title='//www.youtube.com/embed/KhNhrKNYvSo'\n allowfullscreen='true'\n style='border:0;'>\u003c/iframe>\n \u003c/span>\n \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/div>\n\u003cp>I had a chance to interview Peaches on the red carpet at the San Francisco International Film Festival screening of her film. I wasn’t sure what to expect. Would she going prance down the red carpet in leather bondage? Would she even be wearing clothes? Would I need to avert my eyes? None of the above. Despite talking a mile a minute, Peaches was extremely genuine.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Here’s my interview with Peaches.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_5097\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 691px\">\u003ca href=\"http://blogs.kqed.org/pop/2013/05/22/peaches-on-her-new-film-her-rock-opera-roots-and-going-all-the-way/peaches-3/\" rel=\"attachment wp-att-5097\">\u003cimg class=\"wp-image-5097 \" src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/pop/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2013/05/Peaches-3.jpg\" alt=\"Peaches and Sandy Kane on the red carpet at the recent San Francisco International Film Festival.\" width=\"691\" height=\"518\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2013/05/Peaches-3.jpg 1280w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2013/05/Peaches-3-400x300.jpg 400w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/12/2013/05/Peaches-3-800x600.jpg 800w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 691px) 100vw, 691px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Peaches and Sandy Kane on the red carpet at the recent San Francisco International Film Festival.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop:\u003c/strong> Peaches, it is such a pleasure to meet you. Thanks for chatting with me.\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>Peaches:\u003c/strong> Hellooooo radio world.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop:\u003c/strong> Hellooooo Peaches. Your movie is a “rock-opera.” I saw the film this afternoon and noticed there wasn’t any dialogue. Can you tell me about that decision?\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>Peaches:\u003c/strong> Right, there isn’t dialogue. I wanted to take my four albums and create a narrative. An “anti-jukebox” musical.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop:\u003c/strong> Are you a fan of musicals?\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>Peaches:\u003c/strong> I love musicals! I grew up on them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop:\u003c/strong> Really? What are some of your favorites?\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>Peaches:\u003c/strong> I love Busby Berkeley. I love \u003cem>Singin’ in the Rain\u003c/em> and musicals from the 1950s.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop:\u003c/strong> That’s surprising. What about Judy Garland? Does the infamous Peaches derive any inspiration from her work?\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>Peaches:\u003c/strong> I love Judy Garland, of course and the \u003cem>Wizard of Oz\u003c/em>. But, I also grew up in the '70s. At a very young age I saw things like \u003ca href=\"http://youtu.be/2n5qVJEg3qA\" target=\"_blank\">\u003cem>Phantom of the Paradise\u003c/em>\u003c/a>, which is a Brian Depalma rocker version of \u003cem>Phantom of the Opera\u003c/em>. I was also inspired by \u003ca href=\"http://youtu.be/bc80tFJpTuo\" target=\"_blank\">\u003cem>Rocky Horror Picture Show\u003c/em>\u003c/a>. And the 1970s British musical, \u003ca href=\"http://youtu.be/oQE298PYhrg\" target=\"_blank\">\u003cem>Tommy\u003c/em>\u003c/a>, based on rock opera by The Who. Those films are embedded deep in me somewhere.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop:\u003c/strong> Have you ever taken theater or film classes?\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>Peaches:\u003c/strong> I did. I actually studied theater directing. I went to college for that. Then I decided I didn’t want to do it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop:\u003c/strong> Why not?\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>Peaches:\u003c/strong> I didn’t want to have a heart attack by the time I was 30 if I had to think about all the sets and lighting and the actors. I would end up just yelling at people because I couldn’t handle everything.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop:\u003c/strong> How did you go from theater directing to becoming the infamous, “Peaches.”\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>Peaches:\u003c/strong> I dropped out of college and ended up falling into music. I realized with music you can be the writer and director and do all those things I loved. I built the songs and then built the enhancement on top of it. For example, when I did \u003cem>Peaches Does Herself\u003c/em>, it started as a stage show, and then became celebration of ten years of all the work I’m doing. We filmed it just to document it. Robin Thompson, who I work with, he filmed it and edited it in such a fantastic way that we realized we might actually have a film on our hands. We changed the ending to take it out of the stage and make it more like a film. That’s how it went.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop:\u003c/strong> Watching your film reminded me very much of John Cameron Mitchell’s \u003cem>Hedwig and the Angry Inch\u003c/em>. Especially because a few characters were gender ambiguous. Did that musical influence you in any way?\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>Peaches:\u003c/strong> Hello? (laughing) Yeah, yeah definitely. I love that you said that. It’s really cool to be associated with that movie. I just met John Cameron Mitchell. Both John and I are influenced by the same things. Hedwig definitely fits all into the same kind of genre. Another journalist said the same thing, too. He said maybe \u003cem>Peaches Does Herself\u003c/em> is an exploration like Hedwig where there is a complete merge of both genders. So, maybe this is an exercise of what Hedwig is really like in practice.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop:\u003c/strong> The movie has a shock quality to it like large vaginas on screen. Were you going for a shock quality?\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>Peaches:\u003c/strong> I made the decisions to put vaginas on stage because I was thinking of all the misconceptions that people see in me and think of my work. I decided I was going to go full on penis-vagina, vagina-penis. I am going to go all in it, not just break out of it. This was a celebration.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED Pop:\u003c/strong> Thank you so much. It’s been a pleasure.\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/pop/5094/peaches-on-her-new-film-her-rock-opera-roots-and-going-all-the-way","authors":["2451"],"categories":["pop_7","pop_6","pop_51","pop_4"],"tags":["pop_813","pop_812","pop_29","pop_821"],"featImg":"pop_5180","label":"pop"},"pop_114":{"type":"posts","id":"pop_114","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"pop","id":"114","score":null,"sort":[1359142699000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"video-exclusive-an-interview-with-lauren-conrad","title":"Video Exclusive: An Interview with Lauren Conrad","publishDate":1359142699,"format":"aside","headTitle":"KQED Pop | KQED Arts","labelTerm":{"site":"pop"},"content":"\u003cp>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPgqsaPelxc\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Reality superstar Lauren Conrad, best known as the heroine of \u003ci>The Hills\u003c/i> and the best friend in your head, is proving her haters wrong with an ever-expanding empire. 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