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He is a Filipino-American from Hong Kong and a graduate of Reed College in Portland, Oregon.","avatar":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/d5e4e7a76481969ccba76f4e2b5ccabc?s=600&d=blank&r=g","twitter":"alanmontecillo","facebook":null,"instagram":null,"linkedin":null,"sites":[{"site":"","roles":["editor"]},{"site":"news","roles":["editor"]}],"headData":{"title":"Alan Montecillo | KQED","description":"KQED Contributor","ogImgSrc":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/d5e4e7a76481969ccba76f4e2b5ccabc?s=600&d=blank&r=g","twImgSrc":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/d5e4e7a76481969ccba76f4e2b5ccabc?s=600&d=blank&r=g"},"isLoading":false,"link":"/author/amontecillo"},"mesquinca":{"type":"authors","id":"11802","meta":{"index":"authors_1591205172","id":"11802","found":true},"name":"Maria Esquinca","firstName":"Maria","lastName":"Esquinca","slug":"mesquinca","email":"mesquinca@kqed.org","display_author_email":false,"staff_mastheads":[],"title":"Producer, The Bay","bio":"María Esquinca is a producer of The Bay. Before that, she was a New York Women’s Foundation IGNITE Fellow at Latino USA. She worked at Radio Bilingue where she covered the San Joaquin Valley. Maria has interned at WLRN, News 21, The New York Times Student Journalism Institute and at Crain’s Detroit Business as a Dow Jones News Fund Business Reporting Intern. She is an MFA graduate from the University of Miami. In 2017, she graduated from the Walter Cronkite School of Journalism and Mass Communication with a Master of Mass Communication. A fronteriza, she was born in Ciudad Juárez, Chihuahua, Mexico and grew up in El Paso, Texas.","avatar":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/77cedba18aae91da775038ba06dcd8d0?s=600&d=blank&r=g","twitter":"@m_esquinca","facebook":null,"instagram":null,"linkedin":null,"sites":[{"site":"news","roles":["editor"]}],"headData":{"title":"Maria Esquinca | KQED","description":"Producer, The Bay","ogImgSrc":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/77cedba18aae91da775038ba06dcd8d0?s=600&d=blank&r=g","twImgSrc":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/77cedba18aae91da775038ba06dcd8d0?s=600&d=blank&r=g"},"isLoading":false,"link":"/author/mesquinca"}},"breakingNewsReducer":{},"campaignFinanceReducer":{},"firebase":{"requesting":{},"requested":{},"timestamps":{},"data":{},"ordered":{},"auth":{"isLoaded":false,"isEmpty":true},"authError":null,"profile":{"isLoaded":false,"isEmpty":true},"listeners":{"byId":{},"allIds":[]},"isInitializing":false,"errors":[]},"navBarReducer":{"navBarId":"news","fullView":true,"showPlayer":false},"navMenuReducer":{"menus":[{"key":"menu1","items":[{"name":"News","link":"/","type":"title"},{"name":"Politics","link":"/politics"},{"name":"Science","link":"/science"},{"name":"Education","link":"/educationnews"},{"name":"Housing","link":"/housing"},{"name":"Immigration","link":"/immigration"},{"name":"Criminal Justice","link":"/criminaljustice"},{"name":"Silicon Valley","link":"/siliconvalley"},{"name":"Forum","link":"/forum"},{"name":"The California Report","link":"/californiareport"}]},{"key":"menu2","items":[{"name":"Arts & Culture","link":"/arts","type":"title"},{"name":"Critics’ Picks","link":"/thedolist"},{"name":"Cultural Commentary","link":"/artscommentary"},{"name":"Food & Drink","link":"/food"},{"name":"Bay Area Hip-Hop","link":"/bayareahiphop"},{"name":"Rebel Girls","link":"/rebelgirls"},{"name":"Arts Video","link":"/artsvideos"}]},{"key":"menu3","items":[{"name":"Podcasts","link":"/podcasts","type":"title"},{"name":"Bay Curious","link":"/podcasts/baycurious"},{"name":"Rightnowish","link":"/podcasts/rightnowish"},{"name":"The Bay","link":"/podcasts/thebay"},{"name":"On Our Watch","link":"/podcasts/onourwatch"},{"name":"Mindshift","link":"/podcasts/mindshift"},{"name":"Consider This","link":"/podcasts/considerthis"},{"name":"Political Breakdown","link":"/podcasts/politicalbreakdown"}]},{"key":"menu4","items":[{"name":"Live Radio","link":"/radio","type":"title"},{"name":"TV","link":"/tv","type":"title"},{"name":"Events","link":"/events","type":"title"},{"name":"For Educators","link":"/education","type":"title"},{"name":"Support KQED","link":"/support","type":"title"},{"name":"About","link":"/about","type":"title"},{"name":"Help Center","link":"https://kqed-helpcenter.kqed.org/s","type":"title"}]}]},"pagesReducer":{},"postsReducer":{"stream_live":{"type":"live","id":"stream_live","audioUrl":"https://streams.kqed.org/kqedradio","title":"Live Stream","excerpt":"Live Stream information currently unavailable.","link":"/radio","featImg":"","label":{"name":"KQED Live","link":"/"}},"stream_kqedNewscast":{"type":"posts","id":"stream_kqedNewscast","audioUrl":"https://www.kqed.org/.stream/anon/radio/RDnews/newscast.mp3?_=1","title":"KQED Newscast","featImg":"","label":{"name":"88.5 FM","link":"/"}},"news_11969521":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11969521","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11969521","score":null,"sort":[1702247415000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"california-can-take-kids-from-abused-moms-why-the-separation-can-harm-both","title":"California Can Take Kids From Abused Moms. Why the Separation Can Harm Both","publishDate":1702247415,"format":"standard","headTitle":"California Can Take Kids From Abused Moms. Why the Separation Can Harm Both | KQED","labelTerm":{"term":18481,"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp>Worried that her abusive partner would kill her or her boys, Jackie had nowhere to go and no one to ask for help. She said her partner had angry outbursts, beat her, degraded her and destroyed things in the house. She knew she had to escape.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She called the Los Angeles County Department of Children and Family Services, hoping for a path to a safe place to stay. Instead, she received a warning that struck a different kind of fear in her.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If she didn’t leave her partner within 30 days, the child welfare agency would take her four boys.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“When I asked for help, they wanted to separate us,” said Jackie, 39, who asked not to use her full name to protect her children’s privacy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The agency’s warning is rooted in a nearly 40-year-old California law that allows child welfare agencies to remove children when they believe an abused parent cannot ensure their kids’ safety. Called “failure to protect,” the law is intended to safeguard kids in dangerous situations.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[pullquote size=\"medium\" align=\"right\" citation=\"Emily Berger, lawyer, Los Angeles Dependency Lawyers\"]‘But what we’ve found, and science backs up, is that being removed from your community, your family of origin and your primary caregiver has such a tremendous impact upon a child’s healthy brain development and ability to form attachments.’[/pullquote]But the longstanding practice is facing continued scrutiny as domestic violence advocates raise concerns about the potential to traumatize families further. Meanwhile, other states with similar laws have narrowed the criteria for when a welfare agency can remove a child. Many states have “failure to protect” laws, but California’s is comparably vague, giving social workers wide latitude in deciding when to remove kids.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I just don’t understand how ‘failure to protect’ exists, either as a fair thing or a legal principle,” said Eve Sheedy, a lawyer and expert in domestic violence policy, including as former director of\u003ca href=\"http://publichealth.lacounty.gov/dvcouncil/about/about.htm\"> LA County Domestic Violence Council\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The law puts child welfare workers in the unenviable position of deciding what is more harmful to children — the trauma of being separated from their family or the risks of witnessing more violence or even becoming a target.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And it can leave domestic violence victims feeling as if they are being punished for their partners’ abuse.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Right now, the victims are seen just like a perpetrator,” said Marie, 36, a domestic violence survivor who said the Los Angeles child welfare agency took her children from her after her partner abused her. The kids continue to live with their grandparents. Marie also spoke on the condition that her full name would not be published to protect her kids’ privacy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Changing the law is difficult in part because lawmakers and social workers share a commitment to protecting children, and they worry about a shift that could endanger kids.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>CalMatters spoke with four mothers who lost children because of a failure to protect order, five current and former social workers, eight domestic violence policy experts and advocates and two state lawmakers for this story.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>All of them stressed that protecting children was their highest priority. Several cited two notorious murders in Los Angeles County where the welfare agency failed to remove children to underscore the hazards of allowing kids to remain in violent households. One was \u003ca href=\"https://www.latimes.com/local/countygovernment/la-me-gabriel-fernandez-20140819-story.html\">Gabriel Fernandez\u003c/a>, who suffered years of gruesome torture and abuse before he was fatally beaten at age 8 in 2013 by his mother and her boyfriend. The other was \u003ca href=\"https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-boy-death-20180623-story.html\">Anthony Avalos\u003c/a>, who was also tortured and abused by his mother and her boyfriend before his death at age 10 in 2018.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>“\u003c/strong>In my opinion, the system really did fail those kids,” said Assemblyman\u003ca href=\"https://ad34.asmrc.org/biography/\"> Tom Lackey\u003c/a>, a Palmdale Republican who has been a teacher and a California Highway Patrol officer.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He said he has dealt more with children who should’ve been removed from unsafe situations than with unnecessary separations from abused parents for “failure to protect.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside postID=\"news_11964331,news_11945997\" label=\"Related Stories\"]No one can say how many California children are separated from family members every year under the law because neither the state nor counties collect that information. The closest estimate comes from a recent report by the UCLA Pritzker Center that showed more than half of Los Angeles County’s 38,618 foster care cases in 2020 involved domestic violence.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Jackie, the mother who was alarmed when she received a “failure to protect” warning six years ago, believes the law discourages women from reporting domestic violence.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“A lot of women don’t say anything because of fear of being separated from their kids,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Separation after abuse, drug use\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Marie is soft-spoken with sparkling eyes and a gentle manner. She said as a teenager, she got hooked on prescription opioids and was addicted for years. She stopped using in 2015, and within a little more than a year, she graduated from college, got married and had two babies.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It was all too much, and I started using again,” Marie said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Marie said her ex-husband was also addicted to drugs and when he was using, he physically abused her.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11969525\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/092923-LA-Domestic-Violence-AJ-CM-19.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11969525\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/092923-LA-Domestic-Violence-AJ-CM-19.jpg\" alt=\"A woman wearing a blue floral shirt, leans her right arm against a pole outside by a house.\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/092923-LA-Domestic-Violence-AJ-CM-19.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/092923-LA-Domestic-Violence-AJ-CM-19-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/092923-LA-Domestic-Violence-AJ-CM-19-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/092923-LA-Domestic-Violence-AJ-CM-19-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/092923-LA-Domestic-Violence-AJ-CM-19-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/092923-LA-Domestic-Violence-AJ-CM-19-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Marie at her home in Culver City on Sept. 29, 2023. Marie lived at Community’s Child after leaving a domestic violence relationship and battling past addictions. She now owns her home and has built a new life for herself and her children. \u003ccite>(Alisha Jucevic/CalMatters)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11969526\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/092923-LA-Domestic-Violence-AJ-CM-24.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11969526\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/092923-LA-Domestic-Violence-AJ-CM-24.jpg\" alt=\"A person holds a handwritten note with butterfly and flower stickers.\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/092923-LA-Domestic-Violence-AJ-CM-24.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/092923-LA-Domestic-Violence-AJ-CM-24-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/092923-LA-Domestic-Violence-AJ-CM-24-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/092923-LA-Domestic-Violence-AJ-CM-24-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/092923-LA-Domestic-Violence-AJ-CM-24-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/092923-LA-Domestic-Violence-AJ-CM-24-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Marie holds a card from one of her kids at her home in Culver City. The card reads, “Thank you for being a very good mom. You been thru a lot but you are still the beast mom in the world.” Marie lived at Community’s Child after leaving a domestic violence relationship and a past of addiction. She now owns her home and has built a new life for herself and her children. \u003ccite>(Alisha Jucevic/CalMatters)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The Department of Children and Family Services removed Marie’s kids for failure to protect them due to domestic violence and substance abuse. At ages 1 and 2, the kids had about a one-week stay in a group home. Marie’s parents adopted the children within six months of opening her case. Adoption typically takes a year or more.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She pulled herself out of addiction after she became pregnant again and didn’t want to lose custody of a third child. She entered a substance abuse program in 2017. Next, she and her 2-month-old infant entered Community’s Child, a shelter and development program for homeless single mothers “motivated to achieve self-sufficiency.” Marie now owns her own home and works full-time in the medical field.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She and her ex-husband have made peace and co-parent all three children, though the two older kids still live with Marie’s parents. Marie said the kids were very young during the violence and didn’t remember it, but she is still traumatized by the separation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I wasn’t able to heal in the six months that they gave me,” Marie said. “My family would’ve been a lot different if we had more time.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>https://youtu.be/gvy3EjgmHFA?si=fIg0YFDOeAdv2xVH\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Marie’s circumstances are not unusual. \u003ca href=\"https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK64441/\">One-quarter to one-half\u003c/a> of domestic violence cases occur with other problems, such as \u003ca href=\"https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2458-11-109\">parental substance abuse\u003c/a> or mental illness, intergenerational trauma or unemployment, among other stressors.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Her story illustrates the difficult choices social workers face every day.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Risk of staying and the risk of removal\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>The Los Angeles Department of Children and Family Services is the largest child welfare agency in the world, with a budget of nearly $2.8 billion and oversight of \u003ca href=\"https://dcfs.lacounty.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/Factsheet-FY-2022-2023.pdf\">more than 25,000 children\u003c/a> annually. In 2022, 90% of the kids were 18 and younger and more than two-thirds were Black or Hispanic.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If a social worker makes the wrong call, children can pay the price with their health or their lives.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Two former child welfare social workers said they felt supported by their agency, but deciding when a child was at risk of harm felt like their responsibility, which was difficult and emotionally exhausting.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Child welfare is a judgment-based system. It is human-driven and based upon sticky, personal family dynamic facts,” said Brandon Nichols, director of the \u003ca href=\"https://dcfs.lacounty.gov/\">Department of Children and Family Services\u003c/a>, Los Angeles County’s child protection agency.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In U.S. households with domestic violence, \u003ca href=\"https://www.childwelfare.gov/topics/can/factors/family/domviolence/\">30% to 60% also have child maltreatment\u003c/a>, including physical abuse or neglect. In 2020, \u003ca href=\"https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/childabuseandneglect/fastfact.html#:~:text=Child%2520abuse%2520and%2520neglect%2520are%2520common.&text=In%25202020%252C%25201%252C750%2520children%2520died,neglect%2520in%2520the%2520United%2520States.\">1,750 children died\u003c/a> from abuse or neglect in the United States.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Dr. Kelly Callahan, director of the\u003ca href=\"https://www.harbor-ucla.org/pediatrics/academics-4/general-pediatrics/hub/\"> Kids In the Dependency System\u003c/a> clinic at Harbor-UCLA Medical Center, said children who witness domestic violence often have psychological or emotional problems.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Children who have witnessed violence between their caretakers can have PTSD (Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder), nightmares, sleep problems, school difficulties and more. They react the same way as children who have been abused,” Callahan said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Because of such harm, proponents of “failure to protect” laws said they’re needed for children’s safety.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11969524\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/092923-LA-Domestic-Violence-AJ-CM-08.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11969524\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/092923-LA-Domestic-Violence-AJ-CM-08.jpg\" alt=\"A room with chairs, a table, and books.\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/092923-LA-Domestic-Violence-AJ-CM-08.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/092923-LA-Domestic-Violence-AJ-CM-08-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/092923-LA-Domestic-Violence-AJ-CM-08-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/092923-LA-Domestic-Violence-AJ-CM-08-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/092923-LA-Domestic-Violence-AJ-CM-08-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/092923-LA-Domestic-Violence-AJ-CM-08-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The library and counseling room at Community’s Child in Lomita on Sept. 29, 2023. Community’s Child is a shelter and resource program that provides supplies, food and housing for women and infants who are struggling with homelessness, addiction and poverty. \u003ccite>(Alisha Jucevic/CalMatters)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>But \u003ca href=\"https://developingchild.harvard.edu/resources/aces-and-toxic-stress-frequently-asked-questions/\">separation from a parent\u003c/a> can be equally devastating for children. \u003ca href=\"https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/aces/fastfact.html\">Adverse childhood experiences\u003c/a>, such as abuse or witnessing violence, contribute to poor mental and physical health well into adulthood, including risk for early death. A safe, secure relationship with a caring adult, such as a non-offending parent, can\u003ca href=\"https://developingchild.harvard.edu/science/key-concepts/resilience/\"> build resiliency\u003c/a> for a traumatized child.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The courts will often say, ‘We know that being exposed to violence in the home alters a child’s brain chemistry, and we’re going to remove this child and place them in foster care,” said Emily Berger, a lawyer for\u003ca href=\"https://www.ladlinc.org/\"> Los Angeles Dependency Lawyers\u003c/a>, a nonprofit consortium of court-appointed lawyers who defend parents involved in dependency court.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“But what we’ve found, and science backs up, is that being removed from your community, your family of origin, and your primary caregiver has such a tremendous impact upon a child’s healthy brain development and ability to form attachments,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Evolution of ‘failure to protect’\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>The original \u003ca href=\"https://scholarlycommons.law.case.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1641&context=healthmatrix\">“failure-to-protect” laws\u003c/a> emerged in the 1960s in response to reports of child physical abuse. Under the laws, if a caregiver knew a child was being abused and didn’t report it, that \u003ca href=\"https://www.nyulawreview.org/issues/volume-76-number-1/whos-failing-whom-a-critical-look-at-failure-to-protect-laws/\">caregiver could be prosecuted\u003c/a> the same as the abuser.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California’s \u003ca href=\"https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=WIC§ionNum=300.\">failure to protect\u003c/a> law falls under a welfare code that states children can become dependents of the court if “the child has suffered or there is a substantial risk that the child will suffer, serious physical harm inflicted non-accidentally upon the child by the child’s parent or guardian.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Listed among the criteria for substantial risk is “the failure or inability of the child’s parent or guardian to adequately supervise or protect the child.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://lao.ca.gov/reports/2013/ssrv/child-neglect/child-neglect-080813.aspx#:~:text=Neglect%20Is%20the%20Most%20Common%20Reason%20for%20Foster%20Care%20Entry&text=Child%20neglect%20has%20been%20the,foster%20care%20entries%20since%202000.\">Neglect is the leading cause\u003c/a> for children to be placed under the courts’ jurisdiction. Failure to protect is often \u003ca href=\"https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubPDFs/neglect_ch2.pdf\">considered neglect\u003c/a> or emotional abuse in the child welfare and justice systems, including when it’s related to domestic violence.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As of 2015, 48 states and four U.S. territories had “failure to protect” laws: Maryland, Wyoming and Puerto Rico did not. The statutes designate the crimes as \u003ca href=\"https://scholarlycommons.law.case.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1641&context=healthmatrix\">misdemeanors or felonies\u003c/a>. In California, neglect is usually charged as a \u003ca href=\"https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?sectionNum=270.&lawCode=PEN\">misdemeanor.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Failure to protect charges \u003ca href=\"https://capitalandmain.com/child-law-penalizes-moms-for-abusive-partners-10-16\">can lead to life sentences\u003c/a> for parents in six states — Oklahoma, Missouri, Nebraska, Nevada, South Carolina and West Virginia. In\u003ca href=\"https://talkpoverty.org/2019/10/25/failure-protect-child-welfare/index.html\"> Texas, the maximum penalty is 99 years\u003c/a>. For some non-offending parents, the penalties have been more severe than for the abuser.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Some states, such as New York and Washington, have moved in the \u003ca href=\"https://scholarlycommons.law.case.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1641&context=healthmatrix\">opposite direction \u003c/a>to protect the rights of abuse victims. The New York Court of Appeals in 2004 ruled that \u003ca href=\"https://www.nyclu.org/en/cases/nicholson-v-williams-defending-parental-rights-mothers-who-are-domestic-violence-victims\">witnessing domestic violence did not constitute neglect\u003c/a> and couldn’t be the sole basis for removing children from the non-offending parent.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>State Sen. Susan Rubio, a Democrat from West Covina, two years ago carried a bill that would have compelled California to study domestic violence in the child welfare system. She told her colleagues at the time the law “fails to recognize” the trauma of a parent “who is a domestic violence survivor.” The bill did not reach Gov. Gavin Newsom.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Would changing domestic violence law matter?\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Despite Rubio’s setback, some advocates for domestic violence victims outside of the Capitol are building a case to change California’s law.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Pritzker Center report calls for \u003ca href=\"https://pritzkercenter.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/Pritzker-Domestic-Violence-Report-Endnotes_final.pdf\">California to consider legislative\u003c/a> reforms similar to the New York Court of Appeals ruling. The report also calls for \u003ca href=\"https://pritzkercenter.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/Pritzker-Domestic-Violence-Report-Endnotes_final.pdf\">better training\u003c/a> in the complexities of family violence for all child welfare workers, court officers and such mandated reporters as teachers and coaches.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I think we could have legislation that said being victimized by domestic violence is not sufficient basis for charging neglect,” said Sheedy, the former director of LA County Domestic Violence Council.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This would be similar to California laws prohibiting the use of \u003ca href=\"https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=202120220AB2085\">poverty\u003c/a> or homelessness as the sole basis for the removal of a child.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But others are urging more modest changes even as they express misgivings with the current policy. They worry about rescinding a policy intended to protect a child.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There are definite concerns with ‘failure to protect’ and how it’s being used — it’s being used as a stick,” said Julie McCormick, a lawyer with the Children’s Law Center, a nonprofit legal organization representing children in the dependency system.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But, she said, “I wouldn’t say CLC (Children’s Law Center) has the stance that it should be gone. It’s too nuanced to do something blanket. I think that’s why it’s so hard to come up with legislation.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The California Partnership to End Domestic Violence also has looked at the failure to protect the law. It isn’t calling for significant changes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s an issue we’ve tried to look at a couple of ways, but what makes sense statewide is tricky,” said Krista Colon, the partnership’s director.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Ending generations of domestic violence\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Jackie, the mother of four boys who was frightened by the warning that she could lose her kids, became an advocate for domestic violence victims after her experience. She is now a parent-partner with the Los Angeles Defense Lawyers and helps other parents navigate the system.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Her sons are now 18, 13, 12 and 7. She is stylish and engaging with a ready smile, but she harbors deep trauma. She lived with an abusive partner, the father of her three younger boys, for 10 years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11969527\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/092923-LA-Domestic-Violence-AJ-CM-31.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11969527\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/092923-LA-Domestic-Violence-AJ-CM-31.jpg\" alt=\"A woman in a business suit sits in front of a desk.\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/092923-LA-Domestic-Violence-AJ-CM-31.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/092923-LA-Domestic-Violence-AJ-CM-31-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/092923-LA-Domestic-Violence-AJ-CM-31-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/092923-LA-Domestic-Violence-AJ-CM-31-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/092923-LA-Domestic-Violence-AJ-CM-31-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/092923-LA-Domestic-Violence-AJ-CM-31-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Jackie at her office in Monterey Park on Sept. 29, 2023. Jackie is a domestic violence survivor and is now a family advocate for Los Angeles Defense Lawyers. \u003ccite>(Alisha Jucevic/CalMatters)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“At first, he was the perfect guy,” Jackie said, “Then I moved in with him and little things started happening, like yelling and pushing me.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She grew up with domestic violence in a large, multi-generational Latino household. When her ex-partner became abusive, she thought it was normal. Her grandmother told Jackie she had “to stay. Hispanic men are just like that.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Raphael, Jackie’s oldest son, said he remembers being afraid during the fighting, but as the big brother, he had to be strong to protect his siblings.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Jackie called 12 shelters before finding one to take her and her sons. Most shelters don’t accept boys older than 8. Raphael was 11, so he went to live with his biological father.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“My dad told me my mom and my brothers were in the shelter. I didn’t know what that meant, and it really scared me,” Raphael said, “It was really tough because I missed my brothers.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>https://youtu.be/4g9zMARbCo8?si=zuUiL81K44IT1WWb\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Although the boys weren’t taken, child welfare’s threat to do so was devastating.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It was drastic and traumatizing,” Jackie said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Yet, she said, calling child welfare saved her life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“When I was living through it, I thought I was doing what I needed to do to protect my kids,” Jackie said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Most abused mothers do.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This article was produced as a project for the USC Annenberg Center for Health Journalism’s 2023 Domestic Violence Impact Fund.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"California’s ‘failure to protect’ law allows child welfare agencies to take kids from households scarred by domestic violence. Advocates say the separation can worsen a family’s trauma.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1702328620,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":70,"wordCount":2889},"headData":{"title":"California Can Take Kids From Abused Moms. Why the Separation Can Harm Both | KQED","description":"California’s ‘failure to protect’ law allows child welfare agencies to take kids from households scarred by domestic violence. Advocates say the separation can worsen a family’s trauma.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":""},"sticky":false,"nprByline":"ChrisAnna Mink","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","showOnAuthorArchivePages":"No","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11969521/california-can-take-kids-from-abused-moms-why-the-separation-can-harm-both","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Worried that her abusive partner would kill her or her boys, Jackie had nowhere to go and no one to ask for help. She said her partner had angry outbursts, beat her, degraded her and destroyed things in the house. She knew she had to escape.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She called the Los Angeles County Department of Children and Family Services, hoping for a path to a safe place to stay. Instead, she received a warning that struck a different kind of fear in her.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If she didn’t leave her partner within 30 days, the child welfare agency would take her four boys.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“When I asked for help, they wanted to separate us,” said Jackie, 39, who asked not to use her full name to protect her children’s privacy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The agency’s warning is rooted in a nearly 40-year-old California law that allows child welfare agencies to remove children when they believe an abused parent cannot ensure their kids’ safety. Called “failure to protect,” the law is intended to safeguard kids in dangerous situations.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"‘But what we’ve found, and science backs up, is that being removed from your community, your family of origin and your primary caregiver has such a tremendous impact upon a child’s healthy brain development and ability to form attachments.’","name":"pullquote","attributes":{"named":{"size":"medium","align":"right","citation":"Emily Berger, lawyer, Los Angeles Dependency Lawyers","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>But the longstanding practice is facing continued scrutiny as domestic violence advocates raise concerns about the potential to traumatize families further. Meanwhile, other states with similar laws have narrowed the criteria for when a welfare agency can remove a child. Many states have “failure to protect” laws, but California’s is comparably vague, giving social workers wide latitude in deciding when to remove kids.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I just don’t understand how ‘failure to protect’ exists, either as a fair thing or a legal principle,” said Eve Sheedy, a lawyer and expert in domestic violence policy, including as former director of\u003ca href=\"http://publichealth.lacounty.gov/dvcouncil/about/about.htm\"> LA County Domestic Violence Council\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The law puts child welfare workers in the unenviable position of deciding what is more harmful to children — the trauma of being separated from their family or the risks of witnessing more violence or even becoming a target.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And it can leave domestic violence victims feeling as if they are being punished for their partners’ abuse.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Right now, the victims are seen just like a perpetrator,” said Marie, 36, a domestic violence survivor who said the Los Angeles child welfare agency took her children from her after her partner abused her. The kids continue to live with their grandparents. Marie also spoke on the condition that her full name would not be published to protect her kids’ privacy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Changing the law is difficult in part because lawmakers and social workers share a commitment to protecting children, and they worry about a shift that could endanger kids.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>CalMatters spoke with four mothers who lost children because of a failure to protect order, five current and former social workers, eight domestic violence policy experts and advocates and two state lawmakers for this story.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>All of them stressed that protecting children was their highest priority. Several cited two notorious murders in Los Angeles County where the welfare agency failed to remove children to underscore the hazards of allowing kids to remain in violent households. One was \u003ca href=\"https://www.latimes.com/local/countygovernment/la-me-gabriel-fernandez-20140819-story.html\">Gabriel Fernandez\u003c/a>, who suffered years of gruesome torture and abuse before he was fatally beaten at age 8 in 2013 by his mother and her boyfriend. The other was \u003ca href=\"https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-boy-death-20180623-story.html\">Anthony Avalos\u003c/a>, who was also tortured and abused by his mother and her boyfriend before his death at age 10 in 2018.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>“\u003c/strong>In my opinion, the system really did fail those kids,” said Assemblyman\u003ca href=\"https://ad34.asmrc.org/biography/\"> Tom Lackey\u003c/a>, a Palmdale Republican who has been a teacher and a California Highway Patrol officer.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He said he has dealt more with children who should’ve been removed from unsafe situations than with unnecessary separations from abused parents for “failure to protect.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"postid":"news_11964331,news_11945997","label":"Related Stories "},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>No one can say how many California children are separated from family members every year under the law because neither the state nor counties collect that information. The closest estimate comes from a recent report by the UCLA Pritzker Center that showed more than half of Los Angeles County’s 38,618 foster care cases in 2020 involved domestic violence.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Jackie, the mother who was alarmed when she received a “failure to protect” warning six years ago, believes the law discourages women from reporting domestic violence.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“A lot of women don’t say anything because of fear of being separated from their kids,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Separation after abuse, drug use\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Marie is soft-spoken with sparkling eyes and a gentle manner. She said as a teenager, she got hooked on prescription opioids and was addicted for years. She stopped using in 2015, and within a little more than a year, she graduated from college, got married and had two babies.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It was all too much, and I started using again,” Marie said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Marie said her ex-husband was also addicted to drugs and when he was using, he physically abused her.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11969525\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/092923-LA-Domestic-Violence-AJ-CM-19.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11969525\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/092923-LA-Domestic-Violence-AJ-CM-19.jpg\" alt=\"A woman wearing a blue floral shirt, leans her right arm against a pole outside by a house.\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/092923-LA-Domestic-Violence-AJ-CM-19.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/092923-LA-Domestic-Violence-AJ-CM-19-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/092923-LA-Domestic-Violence-AJ-CM-19-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/092923-LA-Domestic-Violence-AJ-CM-19-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/092923-LA-Domestic-Violence-AJ-CM-19-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/092923-LA-Domestic-Violence-AJ-CM-19-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Marie at her home in Culver City on Sept. 29, 2023. Marie lived at Community’s Child after leaving a domestic violence relationship and battling past addictions. She now owns her home and has built a new life for herself and her children. \u003ccite>(Alisha Jucevic/CalMatters)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11969526\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/092923-LA-Domestic-Violence-AJ-CM-24.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11969526\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/092923-LA-Domestic-Violence-AJ-CM-24.jpg\" alt=\"A person holds a handwritten note with butterfly and flower stickers.\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/092923-LA-Domestic-Violence-AJ-CM-24.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/092923-LA-Domestic-Violence-AJ-CM-24-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/092923-LA-Domestic-Violence-AJ-CM-24-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/092923-LA-Domestic-Violence-AJ-CM-24-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/092923-LA-Domestic-Violence-AJ-CM-24-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/092923-LA-Domestic-Violence-AJ-CM-24-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Marie holds a card from one of her kids at her home in Culver City. The card reads, “Thank you for being a very good mom. You been thru a lot but you are still the beast mom in the world.” Marie lived at Community’s Child after leaving a domestic violence relationship and a past of addiction. She now owns her home and has built a new life for herself and her children. \u003ccite>(Alisha Jucevic/CalMatters)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The Department of Children and Family Services removed Marie’s kids for failure to protect them due to domestic violence and substance abuse. At ages 1 and 2, the kids had about a one-week stay in a group home. Marie’s parents adopted the children within six months of opening her case. Adoption typically takes a year or more.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She pulled herself out of addiction after she became pregnant again and didn’t want to lose custody of a third child. She entered a substance abuse program in 2017. Next, she and her 2-month-old infant entered Community’s Child, a shelter and development program for homeless single mothers “motivated to achieve self-sufficiency.” Marie now owns her own home and works full-time in the medical field.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She and her ex-husband have made peace and co-parent all three children, though the two older kids still live with Marie’s parents. Marie said the kids were very young during the violence and didn’t remember it, but she is still traumatized by the separation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I wasn’t able to heal in the six months that they gave me,” Marie said. “My family would’ve been a lot different if we had more time.”\u003c/p>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutube'>\n \u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutubeInside'>\n \u003ciframe\n loading='lazy'\n class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__youtubePlayer'\n type='text/html'\n src='//www.youtube.com/embed/gvy3EjgmHFA'\n title='//www.youtube.com/embed/gvy3EjgmHFA'\n allowfullscreen='true'\n style='border:0;'>\u003c/iframe>\n \u003c/span>\n \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cp>Marie’s circumstances are not unusual. \u003ca href=\"https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK64441/\">One-quarter to one-half\u003c/a> of domestic violence cases occur with other problems, such as \u003ca href=\"https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2458-11-109\">parental substance abuse\u003c/a> or mental illness, intergenerational trauma or unemployment, among other stressors.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Her story illustrates the difficult choices social workers face every day.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Risk of staying and the risk of removal\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>The Los Angeles Department of Children and Family Services is the largest child welfare agency in the world, with a budget of nearly $2.8 billion and oversight of \u003ca href=\"https://dcfs.lacounty.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/Factsheet-FY-2022-2023.pdf\">more than 25,000 children\u003c/a> annually. In 2022, 90% of the kids were 18 and younger and more than two-thirds were Black or Hispanic.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If a social worker makes the wrong call, children can pay the price with their health or their lives.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Two former child welfare social workers said they felt supported by their agency, but deciding when a child was at risk of harm felt like their responsibility, which was difficult and emotionally exhausting.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Child welfare is a judgment-based system. It is human-driven and based upon sticky, personal family dynamic facts,” said Brandon Nichols, director of the \u003ca href=\"https://dcfs.lacounty.gov/\">Department of Children and Family Services\u003c/a>, Los Angeles County’s child protection agency.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In U.S. households with domestic violence, \u003ca href=\"https://www.childwelfare.gov/topics/can/factors/family/domviolence/\">30% to 60% also have child maltreatment\u003c/a>, including physical abuse or neglect. In 2020, \u003ca href=\"https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/childabuseandneglect/fastfact.html#:~:text=Child%2520abuse%2520and%2520neglect%2520are%2520common.&text=In%25202020%252C%25201%252C750%2520children%2520died,neglect%2520in%2520the%2520United%2520States.\">1,750 children died\u003c/a> from abuse or neglect in the United States.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Dr. Kelly Callahan, director of the\u003ca href=\"https://www.harbor-ucla.org/pediatrics/academics-4/general-pediatrics/hub/\"> Kids In the Dependency System\u003c/a> clinic at Harbor-UCLA Medical Center, said children who witness domestic violence often have psychological or emotional problems.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Children who have witnessed violence between their caretakers can have PTSD (Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder), nightmares, sleep problems, school difficulties and more. They react the same way as children who have been abused,” Callahan said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Because of such harm, proponents of “failure to protect” laws said they’re needed for children’s safety.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11969524\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/092923-LA-Domestic-Violence-AJ-CM-08.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11969524\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/092923-LA-Domestic-Violence-AJ-CM-08.jpg\" alt=\"A room with chairs, a table, and books.\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/092923-LA-Domestic-Violence-AJ-CM-08.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/092923-LA-Domestic-Violence-AJ-CM-08-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/092923-LA-Domestic-Violence-AJ-CM-08-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/092923-LA-Domestic-Violence-AJ-CM-08-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/092923-LA-Domestic-Violence-AJ-CM-08-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/092923-LA-Domestic-Violence-AJ-CM-08-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The library and counseling room at Community’s Child in Lomita on Sept. 29, 2023. Community’s Child is a shelter and resource program that provides supplies, food and housing for women and infants who are struggling with homelessness, addiction and poverty. \u003ccite>(Alisha Jucevic/CalMatters)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>But \u003ca href=\"https://developingchild.harvard.edu/resources/aces-and-toxic-stress-frequently-asked-questions/\">separation from a parent\u003c/a> can be equally devastating for children. \u003ca href=\"https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/aces/fastfact.html\">Adverse childhood experiences\u003c/a>, such as abuse or witnessing violence, contribute to poor mental and physical health well into adulthood, including risk for early death. A safe, secure relationship with a caring adult, such as a non-offending parent, can\u003ca href=\"https://developingchild.harvard.edu/science/key-concepts/resilience/\"> build resiliency\u003c/a> for a traumatized child.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The courts will often say, ‘We know that being exposed to violence in the home alters a child’s brain chemistry, and we’re going to remove this child and place them in foster care,” said Emily Berger, a lawyer for\u003ca href=\"https://www.ladlinc.org/\"> Los Angeles Dependency Lawyers\u003c/a>, a nonprofit consortium of court-appointed lawyers who defend parents involved in dependency court.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“But what we’ve found, and science backs up, is that being removed from your community, your family of origin, and your primary caregiver has such a tremendous impact upon a child’s healthy brain development and ability to form attachments,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Evolution of ‘failure to protect’\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>The original \u003ca href=\"https://scholarlycommons.law.case.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1641&context=healthmatrix\">“failure-to-protect” laws\u003c/a> emerged in the 1960s in response to reports of child physical abuse. Under the laws, if a caregiver knew a child was being abused and didn’t report it, that \u003ca href=\"https://www.nyulawreview.org/issues/volume-76-number-1/whos-failing-whom-a-critical-look-at-failure-to-protect-laws/\">caregiver could be prosecuted\u003c/a> the same as the abuser.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California’s \u003ca href=\"https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=WIC§ionNum=300.\">failure to protect\u003c/a> law falls under a welfare code that states children can become dependents of the court if “the child has suffered or there is a substantial risk that the child will suffer, serious physical harm inflicted non-accidentally upon the child by the child’s parent or guardian.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Listed among the criteria for substantial risk is “the failure or inability of the child’s parent or guardian to adequately supervise or protect the child.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://lao.ca.gov/reports/2013/ssrv/child-neglect/child-neglect-080813.aspx#:~:text=Neglect%20Is%20the%20Most%20Common%20Reason%20for%20Foster%20Care%20Entry&text=Child%20neglect%20has%20been%20the,foster%20care%20entries%20since%202000.\">Neglect is the leading cause\u003c/a> for children to be placed under the courts’ jurisdiction. Failure to protect is often \u003ca href=\"https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubPDFs/neglect_ch2.pdf\">considered neglect\u003c/a> or emotional abuse in the child welfare and justice systems, including when it’s related to domestic violence.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As of 2015, 48 states and four U.S. territories had “failure to protect” laws: Maryland, Wyoming and Puerto Rico did not. The statutes designate the crimes as \u003ca href=\"https://scholarlycommons.law.case.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1641&context=healthmatrix\">misdemeanors or felonies\u003c/a>. In California, neglect is usually charged as a \u003ca href=\"https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?sectionNum=270.&lawCode=PEN\">misdemeanor.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Failure to protect charges \u003ca href=\"https://capitalandmain.com/child-law-penalizes-moms-for-abusive-partners-10-16\">can lead to life sentences\u003c/a> for parents in six states — Oklahoma, Missouri, Nebraska, Nevada, South Carolina and West Virginia. In\u003ca href=\"https://talkpoverty.org/2019/10/25/failure-protect-child-welfare/index.html\"> Texas, the maximum penalty is 99 years\u003c/a>. For some non-offending parents, the penalties have been more severe than for the abuser.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Some states, such as New York and Washington, have moved in the \u003ca href=\"https://scholarlycommons.law.case.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1641&context=healthmatrix\">opposite direction \u003c/a>to protect the rights of abuse victims. The New York Court of Appeals in 2004 ruled that \u003ca href=\"https://www.nyclu.org/en/cases/nicholson-v-williams-defending-parental-rights-mothers-who-are-domestic-violence-victims\">witnessing domestic violence did not constitute neglect\u003c/a> and couldn’t be the sole basis for removing children from the non-offending parent.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>State Sen. Susan Rubio, a Democrat from West Covina, two years ago carried a bill that would have compelled California to study domestic violence in the child welfare system. She told her colleagues at the time the law “fails to recognize” the trauma of a parent “who is a domestic violence survivor.” The bill did not reach Gov. Gavin Newsom.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Would changing domestic violence law matter?\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Despite Rubio’s setback, some advocates for domestic violence victims outside of the Capitol are building a case to change California’s law.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Pritzker Center report calls for \u003ca href=\"https://pritzkercenter.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/Pritzker-Domestic-Violence-Report-Endnotes_final.pdf\">California to consider legislative\u003c/a> reforms similar to the New York Court of Appeals ruling. The report also calls for \u003ca href=\"https://pritzkercenter.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/Pritzker-Domestic-Violence-Report-Endnotes_final.pdf\">better training\u003c/a> in the complexities of family violence for all child welfare workers, court officers and such mandated reporters as teachers and coaches.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I think we could have legislation that said being victimized by domestic violence is not sufficient basis for charging neglect,” said Sheedy, the former director of LA County Domestic Violence Council.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This would be similar to California laws prohibiting the use of \u003ca href=\"https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=202120220AB2085\">poverty\u003c/a> or homelessness as the sole basis for the removal of a child.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But others are urging more modest changes even as they express misgivings with the current policy. They worry about rescinding a policy intended to protect a child.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There are definite concerns with ‘failure to protect’ and how it’s being used — it’s being used as a stick,” said Julie McCormick, a lawyer with the Children’s Law Center, a nonprofit legal organization representing children in the dependency system.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But, she said, “I wouldn’t say CLC (Children’s Law Center) has the stance that it should be gone. It’s too nuanced to do something blanket. I think that’s why it’s so hard to come up with legislation.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The California Partnership to End Domestic Violence also has looked at the failure to protect the law. It isn’t calling for significant changes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s an issue we’ve tried to look at a couple of ways, but what makes sense statewide is tricky,” said Krista Colon, the partnership’s director.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Ending generations of domestic violence\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Jackie, the mother of four boys who was frightened by the warning that she could lose her kids, became an advocate for domestic violence victims after her experience. She is now a parent-partner with the Los Angeles Defense Lawyers and helps other parents navigate the system.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Her sons are now 18, 13, 12 and 7. She is stylish and engaging with a ready smile, but she harbors deep trauma. She lived with an abusive partner, the father of her three younger boys, for 10 years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11969527\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/092923-LA-Domestic-Violence-AJ-CM-31.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11969527\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/092923-LA-Domestic-Violence-AJ-CM-31.jpg\" alt=\"A woman in a business suit sits in front of a desk.\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/092923-LA-Domestic-Violence-AJ-CM-31.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/092923-LA-Domestic-Violence-AJ-CM-31-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/092923-LA-Domestic-Violence-AJ-CM-31-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/092923-LA-Domestic-Violence-AJ-CM-31-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/092923-LA-Domestic-Violence-AJ-CM-31-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/092923-LA-Domestic-Violence-AJ-CM-31-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Jackie at her office in Monterey Park on Sept. 29, 2023. Jackie is a domestic violence survivor and is now a family advocate for Los Angeles Defense Lawyers. \u003ccite>(Alisha Jucevic/CalMatters)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“At first, he was the perfect guy,” Jackie said, “Then I moved in with him and little things started happening, like yelling and pushing me.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She grew up with domestic violence in a large, multi-generational Latino household. When her ex-partner became abusive, she thought it was normal. Her grandmother told Jackie she had “to stay. Hispanic men are just like that.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Raphael, Jackie’s oldest son, said he remembers being afraid during the fighting, but as the big brother, he had to be strong to protect his siblings.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Jackie called 12 shelters before finding one to take her and her sons. Most shelters don’t accept boys older than 8. Raphael was 11, so he went to live with his biological father.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“My dad told me my mom and my brothers were in the shelter. I didn’t know what that meant, and it really scared me,” Raphael said, “It was really tough because I missed my brothers.”\u003c/p>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutube'>\n \u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutubeInside'>\n \u003ciframe\n loading='lazy'\n class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__youtubePlayer'\n type='text/html'\n src='//www.youtube.com/embed/4g9zMARbCo8'\n title='//www.youtube.com/embed/4g9zMARbCo8'\n allowfullscreen='true'\n style='border:0;'>\u003c/iframe>\n \u003c/span>\n \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cp>Although the boys weren’t taken, child welfare’s threat to do so was devastating.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It was drastic and traumatizing,” Jackie said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Yet, she said, calling child welfare saved her life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“When I was living through it, I thought I was doing what I needed to do to protect my kids,” Jackie said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Most abused mothers do.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This article was produced as a project for the USC Annenberg Center for Health Journalism’s 2023 Domestic Violence Impact Fund.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11969521/california-can-take-kids-from-abused-moms-why-the-separation-can-harm-both","authors":["byline_news_11969521"],"categories":["news_8"],"tags":["news_21690","news_17759","news_27626","news_2139","news_33623"],"affiliates":["news_18481"],"featImg":"news_11969528","label":"news_18481"},"news_11948910":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11948910","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11948910","score":null,"sort":[1683665581000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"its-a-very-stressful-job-california-first-responders-say-more-ptsd-injuries-should-be-covered-by-workers-compensation","title":"'It's a Very Stressful Job': California First Responders Say More PTSD Injuries Should Be Covered by Workers' Compensation","publishDate":1683665581,"format":"standard","headTitle":"‘It’s a Very Stressful Job’: California First Responders Say More PTSD Injuries Should Be Covered by Workers’ Compensation | KQED","labelTerm":{"term":20286,"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp>A paramedic for about 30 years, Susan Farren knew all was not well with first responders: Eight of her colleagues had died by suicide. Others had experienced substance abuse or gone through painful divorces.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So, in 2018, Farren founded a nonprofit in Santa Rosa to train and support emergency personnel struggling with trauma and stress. Hundreds of firefighters, police officers and other first responders have since availed themselves of the organization’s timely help.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Nobody prepares you to walk into a house where four people have been murdered,” said Farren, executive director of \u003ca href=\"https://www.resiliency1st.org/\">First Responders Resiliency\u003c/a>.[pullquote size=\"medium\" align=\"right\" citation=\"Karen Larsen, CEO, Steinberg Institute\"]‘We wouldn’t think twice about taking care of a first responder who broke their leg, and we shouldn’t think twice about taking care of their mental health needs.’[/pullquote]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Firefighters, paramedics and police often respond to the worst days of people’s lives — accidents, deaths, fires and other distressing events. After the deadly mass shootings earlier this year in Monterey Park and Half Moon Bay, and countless others across the country, \u003ca href=\"https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-01-31/monterey-park-officials-apologize-to-firefighters-first-responders\">awareness of how such trauma affects first responders\u003c/a> has grown.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But there is no national consensus on when and which emergency personnel should be provided workers’ compensation benefits.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We wouldn’t think twice about taking care of a first responder who broke their leg, and we shouldn’t think twice about taking care of their mental health needs,” Karen Larsen, CEO of the Steinberg Institute, a nonprofit public policy institute, said in an email.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This year, there has been a push in California by first responders for laws that expand access to workers’ compensation for post-traumatic stress injuries among their ranks. But some business groups and local governments want to pump the brakes, citing worries about potential fraud or abuse of the workers’ compensation system.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The allegation that some people could take advantage of a more open workers’ compensation system should not deter California from providing immediate access to mental health treatment to those who need it, said Farren, who noted that many of the first responders she works with are denied workers’ compensation coverage or have to go through many steps to get it approved.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“That shouldn’t keep us from getting help to those who really need it. That help should be available often, and affordably, and it should be available immediately,” Farren said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Perceptions about employers’ responsibility for alleviating work-related mental stress have changed over time, and that’s showing up in workers’ compensation. Each state has its own workers’ compensation laws, which provide benefits like disability pay and medical care to workers injured or sickened on the job.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>More than half \u003ca href=\"https://workcompauto.optum.com/content/owca/owca/en/insights/blog/policy-matters-blog/2021/PTSD-Coverage.html\">have enacted PTSD policies or policy changes since 2018\u003c/a>, according to a 2021 report by Optum, a company that creates workers’ compensation programs. Coverage varies widely for post-traumatic stress injuries, which can be triggered by a single traumatic event or continued exposure to high stress and traumatic events.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In 2019, Gov. Gavin Newsom signed legislation to give California firefighters and police officers a stronger chance at earning workers’ compensation. The bill, \u003ca href=\"https://www.firerescue1.com/legislation-funding/articles/new-calif-law-lets-first-responders-seek-workers-comp-for-ptsd-N6kxZ0pCyRnz8AOQ/\">SB 542\u003c/a>, authored by state Sen. Henry Stern (D-Calabasas), changed state law so that post-traumatic stress “injury,” such as PTSD, is legally presumed to be work-related for those first responders.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It was a small step by lawmakers in a state where recognition of work-related injuries for workers’ compensation has typically been limited to physical illnesses such as heart disease and cancer. Previously, psychiatric conditions were handled differently, with employers and insurance companies long contending that psychological injuries can have many sources and might be too easy to blame on work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Researchers at the Rand Corp. suggested in a 2021 report that \u003ca href=\"https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RBA1391-1.html\">further study is needed to evaluate the financial toll the 2019 law has had on employers\u003c/a> — particularly counties and other municipalities that pay for police, firefighters and other first responders. Rand researchers estimated the added costs for local governments and the state to cover post-traumatic stress injuries could rise from $20 million to $116 million annually.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Firefighters and police in most cases now no longer have to prove that work was mostly responsible for their PTSD. But the law sunsets in 2025 and excludes many other first responders, including dispatchers, paramedics and first responders at state hospitals.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This year, legislation by state Sen. John Laird (D-Santa Cruz), \u003ca href=\"https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=202320240SB623\">SB 623\u003c/a>, co-sponsored by an advocacy group representing firefighters in the state — California Professional Firefighters — would extend PTSD workers’ compensation coverage until 2032 and open it up to state firefighters, additional law enforcement officers, public safety dispatchers and other emergency response communication employees who work for public agencies. The Senate Labor, Public Employment and Retirement Committee unanimously approved the bill in April, and it is awaiting a vote by the Senate Appropriations Committee.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Business groups and local governments — many of which opposed the 2019 law — are lobbying against more expansion. In letters to lawmakers, groups including the California Chamber of Commerce, California Coalition on Workers’ Compensation, California Hospital Association, and California State Association of Counties warned that pending legislation could “open the door to abuse and fraud.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There is no evidence that workers are being inappropriately denied the care or benefits that they need,” Virginia Drake, spokesperson for the California Coalition on Workers’ Compensation, told KFF Health News. The group represents employers, cities and counties, insurance brokers and government agencies on issues of workers’ compensation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Legislation that would extend benefits to more first responders would “put taxpayer funds at risk by tying the hands of public employers and forcing them to pay even the most questionable claims,” she added in a statement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In addition, there does not seem to be consensus on which emergency personnel should get covered.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A measure by Assemblymember Freddie Rodriguez, a Democrat from Chino who worked as an emergency medical technician for three decades, has stalled. AB 597 would expand workers’ compensation coverage to paramedics and emergency medical technicians, but it didn’t get a hearing in the Assembly. Unions representing paramedics and EMTs in California did not return messages seeking comment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s a very stressful job,” said Rodriguez, who told KFF Health News that two of his paramedic friends had died by suicide. “It affects people differently.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Clearing a path to speedy mental health recovery, particularly after traumatic incidents, “should be automatic,” he added.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s unclear whether Newsom will back Laird’s bill extending coverage for groups of emergency responders, amid a \u003ca href=\"https://calbudgetcenter.org/resources/qa-what-does-the-projected-budget-shortfall-mean-for-california/\">projected $22.5 billion deficit\u003c/a>. A spokesperson for his office, Omar Rodriguez, said the governor typically does not comment on pending legislation and “will evaluate the bills on their own merits if they reach his desk.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Last year, the Democratic governor \u003ca href=\"https://www.gov.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/SB-284-VETO.pdf?emrc=765aa9\">vetoed similar legislation (PDF)\u003c/a>, saying in a statement that it would be premature to shift coverage of PTSD before any studies had been conducted on how the current law has worked for those who are covered.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Broadening coverage, Newsom wrote, “could set a dangerous precedent that has the potential to destabilize the workers’ compensation system going forward.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">California Healthline is a service of the California Health Care Foundation produced by Kaiser Health News.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"But some business groups and local governments have opposed such efforts, citing concerns about potential fraud or abuse of the system.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1683665581,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":29,"wordCount":1262},"headData":{"title":"'It's a Very Stressful Job': California First Responders Say More PTSD Injuries Should Be Covered by Workers' Compensation | KQED","description":"But some business groups and local governments have opposed such efforts, citing concerns about potential fraud or abuse of the system.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":""},"nprByline":"\u003ca href=\"https://californiahealthline.org/news/author/annie-sciacca/\">Annie Sciacca\u003c/a>","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","showOnAuthorArchivePages":"No","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11948910/its-a-very-stressful-job-california-first-responders-say-more-ptsd-injuries-should-be-covered-by-workers-compensation","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>A paramedic for about 30 years, Susan Farren knew all was not well with first responders: Eight of her colleagues had died by suicide. Others had experienced substance abuse or gone through painful divorces.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So, in 2018, Farren founded a nonprofit in Santa Rosa to train and support emergency personnel struggling with trauma and stress. Hundreds of firefighters, police officers and other first responders have since availed themselves of the organization’s timely help.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Nobody prepares you to walk into a house where four people have been murdered,” said Farren, executive director of \u003ca href=\"https://www.resiliency1st.org/\">First Responders Resiliency\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"‘We wouldn’t think twice about taking care of a first responder who broke their leg, and we shouldn’t think twice about taking care of their mental health needs.’","name":"pullquote","attributes":{"named":{"size":"medium","align":"right","citation":"Karen Larsen, CEO, Steinberg Institute","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Firefighters, paramedics and police often respond to the worst days of people’s lives — accidents, deaths, fires and other distressing events. After the deadly mass shootings earlier this year in Monterey Park and Half Moon Bay, and countless others across the country, \u003ca href=\"https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-01-31/monterey-park-officials-apologize-to-firefighters-first-responders\">awareness of how such trauma affects first responders\u003c/a> has grown.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But there is no national consensus on when and which emergency personnel should be provided workers’ compensation benefits.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We wouldn’t think twice about taking care of a first responder who broke their leg, and we shouldn’t think twice about taking care of their mental health needs,” Karen Larsen, CEO of the Steinberg Institute, a nonprofit public policy institute, said in an email.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This year, there has been a push in California by first responders for laws that expand access to workers’ compensation for post-traumatic stress injuries among their ranks. But some business groups and local governments want to pump the brakes, citing worries about potential fraud or abuse of the workers’ compensation system.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The allegation that some people could take advantage of a more open workers’ compensation system should not deter California from providing immediate access to mental health treatment to those who need it, said Farren, who noted that many of the first responders she works with are denied workers’ compensation coverage or have to go through many steps to get it approved.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“That shouldn’t keep us from getting help to those who really need it. That help should be available often, and affordably, and it should be available immediately,” Farren said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Perceptions about employers’ responsibility for alleviating work-related mental stress have changed over time, and that’s showing up in workers’ compensation. Each state has its own workers’ compensation laws, which provide benefits like disability pay and medical care to workers injured or sickened on the job.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>More than half \u003ca href=\"https://workcompauto.optum.com/content/owca/owca/en/insights/blog/policy-matters-blog/2021/PTSD-Coverage.html\">have enacted PTSD policies or policy changes since 2018\u003c/a>, according to a 2021 report by Optum, a company that creates workers’ compensation programs. Coverage varies widely for post-traumatic stress injuries, which can be triggered by a single traumatic event or continued exposure to high stress and traumatic events.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In 2019, Gov. Gavin Newsom signed legislation to give California firefighters and police officers a stronger chance at earning workers’ compensation. The bill, \u003ca href=\"https://www.firerescue1.com/legislation-funding/articles/new-calif-law-lets-first-responders-seek-workers-comp-for-ptsd-N6kxZ0pCyRnz8AOQ/\">SB 542\u003c/a>, authored by state Sen. Henry Stern (D-Calabasas), changed state law so that post-traumatic stress “injury,” such as PTSD, is legally presumed to be work-related for those first responders.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It was a small step by lawmakers in a state where recognition of work-related injuries for workers’ compensation has typically been limited to physical illnesses such as heart disease and cancer. Previously, psychiatric conditions were handled differently, with employers and insurance companies long contending that psychological injuries can have many sources and might be too easy to blame on work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Researchers at the Rand Corp. suggested in a 2021 report that \u003ca href=\"https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RBA1391-1.html\">further study is needed to evaluate the financial toll the 2019 law has had on employers\u003c/a> — particularly counties and other municipalities that pay for police, firefighters and other first responders. Rand researchers estimated the added costs for local governments and the state to cover post-traumatic stress injuries could rise from $20 million to $116 million annually.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Firefighters and police in most cases now no longer have to prove that work was mostly responsible for their PTSD. But the law sunsets in 2025 and excludes many other first responders, including dispatchers, paramedics and first responders at state hospitals.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This year, legislation by state Sen. John Laird (D-Santa Cruz), \u003ca href=\"https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=202320240SB623\">SB 623\u003c/a>, co-sponsored by an advocacy group representing firefighters in the state — California Professional Firefighters — would extend PTSD workers’ compensation coverage until 2032 and open it up to state firefighters, additional law enforcement officers, public safety dispatchers and other emergency response communication employees who work for public agencies. The Senate Labor, Public Employment and Retirement Committee unanimously approved the bill in April, and it is awaiting a vote by the Senate Appropriations Committee.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Business groups and local governments — many of which opposed the 2019 law — are lobbying against more expansion. In letters to lawmakers, groups including the California Chamber of Commerce, California Coalition on Workers’ Compensation, California Hospital Association, and California State Association of Counties warned that pending legislation could “open the door to abuse and fraud.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There is no evidence that workers are being inappropriately denied the care or benefits that they need,” Virginia Drake, spokesperson for the California Coalition on Workers’ Compensation, told KFF Health News. The group represents employers, cities and counties, insurance brokers and government agencies on issues of workers’ compensation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Legislation that would extend benefits to more first responders would “put taxpayer funds at risk by tying the hands of public employers and forcing them to pay even the most questionable claims,” she added in a statement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In addition, there does not seem to be consensus on which emergency personnel should get covered.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A measure by Assemblymember Freddie Rodriguez, a Democrat from Chino who worked as an emergency medical technician for three decades, has stalled. AB 597 would expand workers’ compensation coverage to paramedics and emergency medical technicians, but it didn’t get a hearing in the Assembly. Unions representing paramedics and EMTs in California did not return messages seeking comment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s a very stressful job,” said Rodriguez, who told KFF Health News that two of his paramedic friends had died by suicide. “It affects people differently.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Clearing a path to speedy mental health recovery, particularly after traumatic incidents, “should be automatic,” he added.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s unclear whether Newsom will back Laird’s bill extending coverage for groups of emergency responders, amid a \u003ca href=\"https://calbudgetcenter.org/resources/qa-what-does-the-projected-budget-shortfall-mean-for-california/\">projected $22.5 billion deficit\u003c/a>. A spokesperson for his office, Omar Rodriguez, said the governor typically does not comment on pending legislation and “will evaluate the bills on their own merits if they reach his desk.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Last year, the Democratic governor \u003ca href=\"https://www.gov.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/SB-284-VETO.pdf?emrc=765aa9\">vetoed similar legislation (PDF)\u003c/a>, saying in a statement that it would be premature to shift coverage of PTSD before any studies had been conducted on how the current law has worked for those who are covered.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Broadening coverage, Newsom wrote, “could set a dangerous precedent that has the potential to destabilize the workers’ compensation system going forward.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">California Healthline is a service of the California Health Care Foundation produced by Kaiser Health News.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11948910/its-a-very-stressful-job-california-first-responders-say-more-ptsd-injuries-should-be-covered-by-workers-compensation","authors":["byline_news_11948910"],"categories":["news_8"],"tags":["news_21588","news_32715","news_2139","news_2138","news_32716"],"affiliates":["news_20286"],"featImg":"news_11948918","label":"news_20286"},"news_11945946":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11945946","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11945946","score":null,"sort":[1680861639000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"the-oakland-program-helping-the-cambodian-community-heal-unspoken-trauma","title":"A Program in Oakland is Helping Khmer Rouge Survivors Heal","publishDate":1680861639,"format":"audio","headTitle":"A Program in Oakland is Helping Khmer Rouge Survivors Heal | KQED","labelTerm":{},"content":"\u003cp>Nearly 320,000 Cambodians live in the US, and about 1/3 of the population lives in California. Many are survivors or descendants of those who fled the country during the Cambodian genocide in the 1970s. An estimated 2 million people died under the communist Khmer Rouge led by Pol Pot, leaving survivors with emotional, physical and psychological trauma.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Barriers like language access or cultural stigma often prevent survivors from accessing mental healthcare to address the trauma. But one program in Alameda County has spent the last 20 years providing culturally sensitive mental health care to the Cambodian community, letting survivors lead the way — and participants say it works.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WBRmgheCQOOgi-uhill8LuedyrR3V91P/view?usp=share_link\">\u003cem>Episode transcript\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Guest: \u003c/b>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kvpr.org/people/soreath-hok\">Soreath Hok\u003c/a>, \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">reporter for KVPR\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC7392064352\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Links:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"https://www.kvpr.org/health/2022-11-30/a-program-built-for-and-by-cambodian-refugees-suffering-from-ptsd-participants-say-it-works\">A program built by Cambodian refugees offers PTSD support. Participants say it works\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"https://www.kvpr.org/2022-11-29/cambodian-refugees-cope-with-war-trauma-by-reinforcing-culture-and-community\">Cambodian refugees cope with war trauma by reinforcing culture and community\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"https://www.kvpr.org/community/2022-11-28/from-cambodia-to-california-survivors-of-the-khmer-rouge-genocide-need-access-to-mental-healthcare\">From Cambodia to California: Survivors of the Khmer Rouge genocide need access to mental healthcare\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"A program in Alameda County has spent the last 20 years providing culturally sensitive mental health care to the Cambodian community, letting survivors lead the way.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1700682717,"stats":{"hasAudio":true,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":8,"wordCount":160},"headData":{"title":"A Program in Oakland is Helping Khmer Rouge Survivors Heal | KQED","description":"A program in Alameda County has spent the last 20 years providing culturally sensitive mental health care to the Cambodian community, letting survivors lead the way.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":""},"source":"The Bay","sourceUrl":"https://www.kqed.org/podcasts/thebay","audioUrl":"https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/A511B8/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC7392064352.mp3?updated=1680821840","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11945946/the-oakland-program-helping-the-cambodian-community-heal-unspoken-trauma","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Nearly 320,000 Cambodians live in the US, and about 1/3 of the population lives in California. Many are survivors or descendants of those who fled the country during the Cambodian genocide in the 1970s. An estimated 2 million people died under the communist Khmer Rouge led by Pol Pot, leaving survivors with emotional, physical and psychological trauma.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Barriers like language access or cultural stigma often prevent survivors from accessing mental healthcare to address the trauma. But one program in Alameda County has spent the last 20 years providing culturally sensitive mental health care to the Cambodian community, letting survivors lead the way — and participants say it works.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WBRmgheCQOOgi-uhill8LuedyrR3V91P/view?usp=share_link\">\u003cem>Episode transcript\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Guest: \u003c/b>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kvpr.org/people/soreath-hok\">Soreath Hok\u003c/a>, \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">reporter for KVPR\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC7392064352\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Links:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"https://www.kvpr.org/health/2022-11-30/a-program-built-for-and-by-cambodian-refugees-suffering-from-ptsd-participants-say-it-works\">A program built by Cambodian refugees offers PTSD support. Participants say it works\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"https://www.kvpr.org/2022-11-29/cambodian-refugees-cope-with-war-trauma-by-reinforcing-culture-and-community\">Cambodian refugees cope with war trauma by reinforcing culture and community\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"https://www.kvpr.org/community/2022-11-28/from-cambodia-to-california-survivors-of-the-khmer-rouge-genocide-need-access-to-mental-healthcare\">From Cambodia to California: Survivors of the Khmer Rouge genocide need access to mental healthcare\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11945946/the-oakland-program-helping-the-cambodian-community-heal-unspoken-trauma","authors":["8654","11649","11802"],"programs":["news_28779"],"categories":["news_8","news_33520"],"tags":["news_21216","news_31651","news_2139","news_22598"],"featImg":"news_11945947","label":"source_news_11945946"},"news_11876693":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11876693","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11876693","score":null,"sort":[1622826806000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"one-bill-makes-you-taller","title":"One Bill Makes You Taller...","publishDate":1622826806,"format":"aside","headTitle":"Mark Fiore: Drawn to the Bay | KQED News","labelTerm":{"term":18515,"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2021/06/psychedelic_060421_final.png\">\u003cimg class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-11876697\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2021/06/psychedelic_060421_final.png\" alt=\"A Mark Fiore cartoon about state Sen. Scott Wiener's bill that would decriminalize psychedelics. The cartoon shows the caterpillar from Alice in Wonderland atop a mushroom labeled "SB 519" as Wiener says, "any way you can make yourself look more like a medical professional?"\" width=\"1920\" height=\"1392\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2021/06/psychedelic_060421_final.png 1920w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2021/06/psychedelic_060421_final-800x580.png 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2021/06/psychedelic_060421_final-1020x740.png 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2021/06/psychedelic_060421_final-160x116.png 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2021/06/psychedelic_060421_final-1536x1114.png 1536w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California moved closer to \u003ca href=\"http://bit.ly/fiorepsychedelics\">decriminalizing psychedelics\u003c/a> after the state Senate approved San Francisco Sen. Scott Wiener's SB 519 earlier this week.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Wiener and other proponents of the bill have emphasized the mental health benefits of psychedelics in treating everything from post-traumatic stress disorder to \"end-of-life anxiety.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It sounds like there is plenty of evidence that psychedelics do in fact help people with certain psychological disorders, but it may still be a tough sell given the reputation of substances like LSD, mushrooms and ecstasy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"California moved closer to decriminalizing psychedelics after the state Senate approved Sen. Scott Wiener's SB 519 earlier this week.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1622826806,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":6,"wordCount":89},"headData":{"title":"One Bill Makes You Taller... | KQED","description":"California moved closer to decriminalizing psychedelics after the state Senate approved Sen. Scott Wiener's SB 519 earlier this week.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":""},"disqusIdentifier":"11876693 https://ww2.kqed.org/news/?p=11876693","disqusUrl":"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/2021/06/04/one-bill-makes-you-taller/","disqusTitle":"One Bill Makes You Taller...","path":"/news/11876693/one-bill-makes-you-taller","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2021/06/psychedelic_060421_final.png\">\u003cimg class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-11876697\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2021/06/psychedelic_060421_final.png\" alt=\"A Mark Fiore cartoon about state Sen. Scott Wiener's bill that would decriminalize psychedelics. The cartoon shows the caterpillar from Alice in Wonderland atop a mushroom labeled "SB 519" as Wiener says, "any way you can make yourself look more like a medical professional?"\" width=\"1920\" height=\"1392\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2021/06/psychedelic_060421_final.png 1920w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2021/06/psychedelic_060421_final-800x580.png 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2021/06/psychedelic_060421_final-1020x740.png 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2021/06/psychedelic_060421_final-160x116.png 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2021/06/psychedelic_060421_final-1536x1114.png 1536w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California moved closer to \u003ca href=\"http://bit.ly/fiorepsychedelics\">decriminalizing psychedelics\u003c/a> after the state Senate approved San Francisco Sen. Scott Wiener's SB 519 earlier this week.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Wiener and other proponents of the bill have emphasized the mental health benefits of psychedelics in treating everything from post-traumatic stress disorder to \"end-of-life anxiety.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It sounds like there is plenty of evidence that psychedelics do in fact help people with certain psychological disorders, but it may still be a tough sell given the reputation of substances like LSD, mushrooms and ecstasy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11876693/one-bill-makes-you-taller","authors":["3236"],"series":["news_18515"],"categories":["news_457","news_6188","news_13"],"tags":["news_2587","news_20949","news_29536","news_2139","news_29537","news_1217","news_3883","news_29538"],"featImg":"news_11876697","label":"news_18515"},"news_11873841":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11873841","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11873841","score":null,"sort":[1622674838000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"decriminalizing-psychedelic-drugs-in-california-as-senate-considers-bill-debate-continues","title":"Amid Ongoing Debate, State Senate Approves Bill to Decriminalize Psychedelic Drugs in California","publishDate":1622674838,"format":"standard","headTitle":"KQED News","labelTerm":{"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp>The California Senate approved legislation to decriminalize the possession or sharing of psychedelic drugs, Tuesday.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://sd11.senate.ca.gov/news/20210218-senator-wiener-introduces-legislation-decriminalize-possession-and-personal-use\">Senate Bill 519\u003c/a>, introduced by state Sen. Scott Wiener, D-San Francisco, now heads to the state Assembly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“This is a big step for this legislation and for our movement to end the war on drugs and to take a more health and science-based approach and to move away from criminalization of drugs,” Wiener said in a Twitter video posted on Tuesday.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>https://twitter.com/Scott_Wiener/status/1399867521612881921?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1399867521612881921%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ffox40.com%2Fnews%2Flocal-news%2Fcalifornia-senate-passes-bill-to-decriminalize-psychedelic-drugs%2F\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The legislation would allow doctors to prescribe psychedelics for treating mental health disorders such as depression and PTSD. It would also allow psychedelics for personal use, and expunge criminal records for people with prior convictions for possession.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In May, the medical journal Nature Medicine published results of \u003ca href=\"https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01336-3\">a study using the psychedelic drug MDMA\u003c/a>, also known as ecstasy, to treat post-traumatic stress disorder among research participants who received the drug, along with counseling. Sixty-seven percent felt their condition had improved to the extent that they no longer qualified for a diagnosis of PTSD.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This study adds to a small but growing body of scientific literature exploring the use of psychedelics like MDMA, LSD and psilocybin as therapy for a range of mental health conditions, including depression, eating disorders and end-of-life anxiety. The bill now working its way through the state Legislature aims to build on this momentum.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>While many veterans and drug advocacy groups support the bill, opponents say the legislation would lead to an increased rate of psychedelic drugs sold and recreationally used. On May 14, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/forum/2010101883458/ca-could-become-the-latest-state-to-decriminalize-psychedelics\">KQED Forum host April Dembosky\u003c/a> talked to the following people involved in this debate:\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>Juliana Mercer\u003c/strong>, a Marine Corps veteran who used psychedelic therapy to overcome her trauma from her time serving in Iraq and Afghanistan\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>Sen. Scott Wiener\u003c/strong>, represents San Francisco in the state Senate\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>Dr. Jeffrey Lieberman\u003c/strong>, former president of the American Psychiatric Association and chairman of the Department of Psychiatry, Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>Larry Morse, \u003c/strong>legislative director, California District Attorneys Association\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>Dr. Robert Grant\u003c/strong>, professor of medicine at UCSF and prominent academic voice around decriminalization and psychedelic therapy\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>The following interview has been edited for length and clarity.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch3>A Veteran's Personal Experience\u003c/h3>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Juliana Mercer graduated military boot camp one week before Sept. 11, 2001, and served in the United States Marines for 16 years. She served two tours of duty, one in Iraq and one in Afghanistan.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Juliana Mercer:\u003c/strong> Between Iraq and Afghanistan, where I saw the traumas of war in between those two deployments, I spent five years working with our wounded in San Diego at the naval hospital, and I did everything that was non-medical for helping them in a holistic way to get back into their lives with their injuries.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>During those five years I saw the direct result of war; not just the physical trauma, but the mental trauma. And I did my job every day and did it happily because I was helping my brothers and sisters. But losing quite a few fellow Marines and other veterans to suicide between two war deployments really took a toll on me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I didn't realize that they had taken a toll on me because I was doing my job every day. A few years after exiting the service and continuing to work with nonprofits that help veterans, I felt just this loss of purpose. Even though I was doing purposeful work, I had a loss of who my authentic self was. My first interaction with these medicines really opened up the acknowledgment that I had suffered a lot of loss, and there was a lot of grief in there. It started to help me unpack all of the grief that I had, and hadn't revisited because I was so busy doing my job and taking care of my Marines.\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[aside postID=\"science_1956693\"]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Mercer eventually connected with the \u003ca href=\"https://www.heroicheartsproject.org/\">Heroic Hearts Project\u003c/a>, which specializes in ayahuasca therapy with military veterans, and traveled to a retreat center in Costa Rica for treatment.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We were there for 10 days and we had four sessions with ayahuasca. And these sessions where you drink the medicine, which is the root that's found in the Amazon, administered by a shaman.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You go into these sessions with intentions of what you want to accomplish and what you want to bring up. I think a session lasts anywhere from six to 12 hours. The ayahuasca and psychedelic medicines really opens you up. They open up your heart and they let you start looking inside of yourself, figuring out what the blockages are.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>These sessions are [like] 10 years of therapy.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch3>The Proposed Legislation Around Psychedelics\u003c/h3>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>State Sen. Scott Wiener:\u003c/strong> The legislation is sponsored by [the Heroic Hearts Project], as well as another group of vets that also works with veterans experiencing PTSD, addiction, other mental health challenges, and combat veterans.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And right now, these groups are having to send these combat veterans to other countries, to Costa Rica, to Peru, to Mexico to get treatment. We think to ourselves how outrageous it is that these are people who have gone to war for our country, who have sustained terrible injuries — physical and mental — serving our country, and we're making it illegal for them to get effective treatment in the U.S. and forcing them to travel to another country.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I watched what was happening in Oregon and in various cities around the country as part of the movement towards drug decriminalization. The war on drugs has failed. Incarcerating people for using drugs doesn't work. We need to take a health-based approach. And for psychedelics in particular, the mounting evidence of the health benefits of all of these substances is just extraordinary. People whose lives are being saved.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And yet we have stuck with this terrible criminalization approach and say, no, you can't have your medicine, it's illegal. And if you possess your medicine, you might get arrested and go to jail. And so the bill simply decriminalizes the possession of psychedelics. It actually does not authorize doctors to prescribe. That would require a change in federal law so that the doctors wouldn't lose their prescribing privileges. But that, we hope, will happen at some point. But for now, we want to make sure that California stops arresting and prosecuting people for possessing psychedelics. [pullquote size=\"medium\" align=\"right\" citation=\"Scott Wiener, D-San Francisco\"]'We want to make sure that California stops arresting and prosecuting people for possessing psychedelics.’[/pullquote]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We want to effectively decriminalize it and move towards legalization, and then create pathways for people to expunge their records. It's hard to describe how destructive the war on drugs has been. It has cost this country untold billions. A lot of people have criminal records because they were low-level drug offenses, and we want to make sure that they can clear their records and not have those convictions hanging over them, which can have implications for housing and for employment. So it's about saying, \"Listen, we made a mistake by criminalizing these substances. We're moving away from that now.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003ch3>What Could the Drawbacks of Decriminalizing Psychedelics Be?\u003c/h3>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dr. Jeffrey Lieberman, Columbia University:\u003c/strong> Hopefully we won't commit the same mistake that we did in the '60s where things got out of control, and they were used recreationally.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>First, let me just say that I completely agree with the legislation. These drugs should not be criminalized. There should be decriminalization. Secondly, I enthusiastically endorse their study for therapeutic uses for various types of conditions. [aside postID=\"science_1970825\"]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But at the same time, I'm very concerned that we're rushing headlong to a point where practice is leaping ahead of knowledge. And the first way in which this is evident is the fact that \"psychedelics\" is the term that's being used to define a certain group of psychoactive drugs. But it's being used in a way that's not precise.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Psychedelics really refer to compounds that have been used by Indigenous peoples ritualistically for centuries, and then synthetically replicated. Ecstasy, MDMA, ketamine, ibogaine are not classical psychedelics. They have different clinical effects and they have different potential uses.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>All of these drugs do have some potential uses. The problem is they have not been studied sufficiently to know what they are. So if we let the genie out of the bottle too soon, and base it on the enthusiasm of true believers who have had positive experiences, we're potentially risking trouble.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If this is such a big thing socially for our population and people are benefiting from it and want to have access to it, why isn't it being studied in the way that rigorously and systematically it should be?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Larry Morse, California District Attorneys Association:\u003c/strong> I endorse completely what Dr. Lieberman said about the lack of adequate studies that we are talking about: powerful, powerful drugs, LSD.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I'm of the generation where I literally remember being with people having an extraordinarily bad experience with LSD all through the evening. And it is a flight of naivete to believe that if we make this more readily accessible, legalize this, that it is not going to be used by kids. They are going to get access to it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We are talking about making a drug more readily available. And it is just denial to suggest that it will not fall into the hands of 15-, 16-, 17-year-olds who will have terrible, terrible, terrifying experiences that have significant likelihood or possibility of long-term effects.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Psychosis, paranoia, schizophrenia. This is not like some really strong weed. These are powerful drugs that have dramatic effects on people's moods and can lead to just horrific consequences.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003ch3>The Prevalence and Equity of Psychedelic Medicines\u003c/h3>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dr. Robert Grant, UCSF:\u003c/strong> Psychedelics are already in widespread use in the United States. Surveys have shown that something like 30 million Americans have used psychedelic medicines in their lives and something like 1 million use them on any given year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So these medicines are being used. They're being used largely in a criminalized context where people have to be very shy about talking about how they've used psychedelics, and under what circumstances, and who provided them, and whether that was a good setting for their work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The huge advantage of this particular legislation is that it allows for all of that underground use, which is already happening, to come out and be more public — so that people can talk about when their use of psychedelics went well, and when it went badly. These kinds of open discussions are not possible now because of criminalization, and decriminalization will change that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Three-quarters of the participants in the trial cited in Nature Medicine's \u003ca href=\"https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01336-3\">study of MDMA and PTSD\u003c/a> were white. What do we know about the effectiveness of this drug, and access to it, for people of color?\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Clinical trials in general tend to recruit predominantly white populations, and we think that that's an issue of trust — that researchers need to do more to establish trust with communities of color. [pullquote size=\"medium\" align=\"right\" citation=\"Dr. Robert Grant, UCSF\"]'We do know that communities of color are using these therapies. And we also know that communities of color and queer communities are at much higher risk of having PTSD. So the unmet medical need for those communities of color is enormous, and larger than in other populations.’[/pullquote]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We do know that communities of color are using these therapies. And we also know that communities of color and queer communities are at much higher risk of having PTSD. So the unmet medical need for those communities of color is enormous, and larger than in other populations.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Medicalization pathways left there on their own without decriminalization will be difficult and delayed, and will have even more difficulty recruiting people of color while we have criminalization laws on the books. So this decriminalization law, I believe, will make it easier for the National Institutes of Health to fund these studies, and that will make it easier for people of color to participate in those studies. And it'll make it easier for people who are using these medicines therapeutically to talk about their experiences.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Listen to \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/forum/2010101883458/ca-could-become-the-latest-state-to-decriminalize-psychedelics\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">KQED Forum\u003c/a> to hear the full episode.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>The original version of this story was published on May 16.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"Senate Bill 519, which passed the state Senate on Tuesday and now moves to the Assembly, would allow doctors in California to prescribe psychedelics for treating mental health disorders such as depression and PTSD. It would also permit psychedelics for personal use, and expunge criminal records for people with prior convictions for possession.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1622681973,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":42,"wordCount":2129},"headData":{"title":"Amid Ongoing Debate, State Senate Approves Bill to Decriminalize Psychedelic Drugs in California | KQED","description":"Senate Bill 519, which passed the state Senate on Tuesday and now moves to the Assembly, would allow doctors in California to prescribe psychedelics for treating mental health disorders such as depression and PTSD. It would also permit psychedelics for personal use, and expunge criminal records for people with prior convictions for possession.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":""},"disqusIdentifier":"11873841 https://ww2.kqed.org/news/?p=11873841","disqusUrl":"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/2021/06/02/decriminalizing-psychedelic-drugs-in-california-as-senate-considers-bill-debate-continues/","disqusTitle":"Amid Ongoing Debate, State Senate Approves Bill to Decriminalize Psychedelic Drugs in California","audioUrl":"https://dcs.megaphone.fm/KQINC2454391093.mp3?key=cecf04ec43c35195f2042c205c19245f","path":"/news/11873841/decriminalizing-psychedelic-drugs-in-california-as-senate-considers-bill-debate-continues","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>The California Senate approved legislation to decriminalize the possession or sharing of psychedelic drugs, Tuesday.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://sd11.senate.ca.gov/news/20210218-senator-wiener-introduces-legislation-decriminalize-possession-and-personal-use\">Senate Bill 519\u003c/a>, introduced by state Sen. Scott Wiener, D-San Francisco, now heads to the state Assembly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“This is a big step for this legislation and for our movement to end the war on drugs and to take a more health and science-based approach and to move away from criminalization of drugs,” Wiener said in a Twitter video posted on Tuesday.\u003c/p>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"singleTwitterStatus","attributes":{"named":{"id":"1399867521612881921"},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The legislation would allow doctors to prescribe psychedelics for treating mental health disorders such as depression and PTSD. It would also allow psychedelics for personal use, and expunge criminal records for people with prior convictions for possession.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In May, the medical journal Nature Medicine published results of \u003ca href=\"https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01336-3\">a study using the psychedelic drug MDMA\u003c/a>, also known as ecstasy, to treat post-traumatic stress disorder among research participants who received the drug, along with counseling. Sixty-seven percent felt their condition had improved to the extent that they no longer qualified for a diagnosis of PTSD.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This study adds to a small but growing body of scientific literature exploring the use of psychedelics like MDMA, LSD and psilocybin as therapy for a range of mental health conditions, including depression, eating disorders and end-of-life anxiety. The bill now working its way through the state Legislature aims to build on this momentum.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>While many veterans and drug advocacy groups support the bill, opponents say the legislation would lead to an increased rate of psychedelic drugs sold and recreationally used. On May 14, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/forum/2010101883458/ca-could-become-the-latest-state-to-decriminalize-psychedelics\">KQED Forum host April Dembosky\u003c/a> talked to the following people involved in this debate:\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>Juliana Mercer\u003c/strong>, a Marine Corps veteran who used psychedelic therapy to overcome her trauma from her time serving in Iraq and Afghanistan\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>Sen. Scott Wiener\u003c/strong>, represents San Francisco in the state Senate\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>Dr. Jeffrey Lieberman\u003c/strong>, former president of the American Psychiatric Association and chairman of the Department of Psychiatry, Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>Larry Morse, \u003c/strong>legislative director, California District Attorneys Association\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>Dr. Robert Grant\u003c/strong>, professor of medicine at UCSF and prominent academic voice around decriminalization and psychedelic therapy\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>The following interview has been edited for length and clarity.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch3>A Veteran's Personal Experience\u003c/h3>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Juliana Mercer graduated military boot camp one week before Sept. 11, 2001, and served in the United States Marines for 16 years. She served two tours of duty, one in Iraq and one in Afghanistan.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Juliana Mercer:\u003c/strong> Between Iraq and Afghanistan, where I saw the traumas of war in between those two deployments, I spent five years working with our wounded in San Diego at the naval hospital, and I did everything that was non-medical for helping them in a holistic way to get back into their lives with their injuries.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>During those five years I saw the direct result of war; not just the physical trauma, but the mental trauma. And I did my job every day and did it happily because I was helping my brothers and sisters. But losing quite a few fellow Marines and other veterans to suicide between two war deployments really took a toll on me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I didn't realize that they had taken a toll on me because I was doing my job every day. A few years after exiting the service and continuing to work with nonprofits that help veterans, I felt just this loss of purpose. Even though I was doing purposeful work, I had a loss of who my authentic self was. My first interaction with these medicines really opened up the acknowledgment that I had suffered a lot of loss, and there was a lot of grief in there. It started to help me unpack all of the grief that I had, and hadn't revisited because I was so busy doing my job and taking care of my Marines.\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"postid":"science_1956693","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Mercer eventually connected with the \u003ca href=\"https://www.heroicheartsproject.org/\">Heroic Hearts Project\u003c/a>, which specializes in ayahuasca therapy with military veterans, and traveled to a retreat center in Costa Rica for treatment.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We were there for 10 days and we had four sessions with ayahuasca. And these sessions where you drink the medicine, which is the root that's found in the Amazon, administered by a shaman.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You go into these sessions with intentions of what you want to accomplish and what you want to bring up. I think a session lasts anywhere from six to 12 hours. The ayahuasca and psychedelic medicines really opens you up. They open up your heart and they let you start looking inside of yourself, figuring out what the blockages are.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>These sessions are [like] 10 years of therapy.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch3>The Proposed Legislation Around Psychedelics\u003c/h3>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>State Sen. Scott Wiener:\u003c/strong> The legislation is sponsored by [the Heroic Hearts Project], as well as another group of vets that also works with veterans experiencing PTSD, addiction, other mental health challenges, and combat veterans.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And right now, these groups are having to send these combat veterans to other countries, to Costa Rica, to Peru, to Mexico to get treatment. We think to ourselves how outrageous it is that these are people who have gone to war for our country, who have sustained terrible injuries — physical and mental — serving our country, and we're making it illegal for them to get effective treatment in the U.S. and forcing them to travel to another country.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I watched what was happening in Oregon and in various cities around the country as part of the movement towards drug decriminalization. The war on drugs has failed. Incarcerating people for using drugs doesn't work. We need to take a health-based approach. And for psychedelics in particular, the mounting evidence of the health benefits of all of these substances is just extraordinary. People whose lives are being saved.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And yet we have stuck with this terrible criminalization approach and say, no, you can't have your medicine, it's illegal. And if you possess your medicine, you might get arrested and go to jail. And so the bill simply decriminalizes the possession of psychedelics. It actually does not authorize doctors to prescribe. That would require a change in federal law so that the doctors wouldn't lose their prescribing privileges. But that, we hope, will happen at some point. But for now, we want to make sure that California stops arresting and prosecuting people for possessing psychedelics. \u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"'We want to make sure that California stops arresting and prosecuting people for possessing psychedelics.’","name":"pullquote","attributes":{"named":{"size":"medium","align":"right","citation":"Scott Wiener, D-San Francisco","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We want to effectively decriminalize it and move towards legalization, and then create pathways for people to expunge their records. It's hard to describe how destructive the war on drugs has been. It has cost this country untold billions. A lot of people have criminal records because they were low-level drug offenses, and we want to make sure that they can clear their records and not have those convictions hanging over them, which can have implications for housing and for employment. So it's about saying, \"Listen, we made a mistake by criminalizing these substances. We're moving away from that now.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003ch3>What Could the Drawbacks of Decriminalizing Psychedelics Be?\u003c/h3>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dr. Jeffrey Lieberman, Columbia University:\u003c/strong> Hopefully we won't commit the same mistake that we did in the '60s where things got out of control, and they were used recreationally.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>First, let me just say that I completely agree with the legislation. These drugs should not be criminalized. There should be decriminalization. Secondly, I enthusiastically endorse their study for therapeutic uses for various types of conditions. \u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"postid":"science_1970825","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But at the same time, I'm very concerned that we're rushing headlong to a point where practice is leaping ahead of knowledge. And the first way in which this is evident is the fact that \"psychedelics\" is the term that's being used to define a certain group of psychoactive drugs. But it's being used in a way that's not precise.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Psychedelics really refer to compounds that have been used by Indigenous peoples ritualistically for centuries, and then synthetically replicated. Ecstasy, MDMA, ketamine, ibogaine are not classical psychedelics. They have different clinical effects and they have different potential uses.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>All of these drugs do have some potential uses. The problem is they have not been studied sufficiently to know what they are. So if we let the genie out of the bottle too soon, and base it on the enthusiasm of true believers who have had positive experiences, we're potentially risking trouble.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If this is such a big thing socially for our population and people are benefiting from it and want to have access to it, why isn't it being studied in the way that rigorously and systematically it should be?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Larry Morse, California District Attorneys Association:\u003c/strong> I endorse completely what Dr. Lieberman said about the lack of adequate studies that we are talking about: powerful, powerful drugs, LSD.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I'm of the generation where I literally remember being with people having an extraordinarily bad experience with LSD all through the evening. And it is a flight of naivete to believe that if we make this more readily accessible, legalize this, that it is not going to be used by kids. They are going to get access to it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We are talking about making a drug more readily available. And it is just denial to suggest that it will not fall into the hands of 15-, 16-, 17-year-olds who will have terrible, terrible, terrifying experiences that have significant likelihood or possibility of long-term effects.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Psychosis, paranoia, schizophrenia. This is not like some really strong weed. These are powerful drugs that have dramatic effects on people's moods and can lead to just horrific consequences.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch3>The Prevalence and Equity of Psychedelic Medicines\u003c/h3>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dr. Robert Grant, UCSF:\u003c/strong> Psychedelics are already in widespread use in the United States. Surveys have shown that something like 30 million Americans have used psychedelic medicines in their lives and something like 1 million use them on any given year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So these medicines are being used. They're being used largely in a criminalized context where people have to be very shy about talking about how they've used psychedelics, and under what circumstances, and who provided them, and whether that was a good setting for their work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The huge advantage of this particular legislation is that it allows for all of that underground use, which is already happening, to come out and be more public — so that people can talk about when their use of psychedelics went well, and when it went badly. These kinds of open discussions are not possible now because of criminalization, and decriminalization will change that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Three-quarters of the participants in the trial cited in Nature Medicine's \u003ca href=\"https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01336-3\">study of MDMA and PTSD\u003c/a> were white. What do we know about the effectiveness of this drug, and access to it, for people of color?\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Clinical trials in general tend to recruit predominantly white populations, and we think that that's an issue of trust — that researchers need to do more to establish trust with communities of color. \u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"'We do know that communities of color are using these therapies. And we also know that communities of color and queer communities are at much higher risk of having PTSD. So the unmet medical need for those communities of color is enormous, and larger than in other populations.’","name":"pullquote","attributes":{"named":{"size":"medium","align":"right","citation":"Dr. Robert Grant, UCSF","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We do know that communities of color are using these therapies. And we also know that communities of color and queer communities are at much higher risk of having PTSD. So the unmet medical need for those communities of color is enormous, and larger than in other populations.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Medicalization pathways left there on their own without decriminalization will be difficult and delayed, and will have even more difficulty recruiting people of color while we have criminalization laws on the books. So this decriminalization law, I believe, will make it easier for the National Institutes of Health to fund these studies, and that will make it easier for people of color to participate in those studies. And it'll make it easier for people who are using these medicines therapeutically to talk about their experiences.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Listen to \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/forum/2010101883458/ca-could-become-the-latest-state-to-decriminalize-psychedelics\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">KQED Forum\u003c/a> to hear the full episode.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>The original version of this story was published on May 16.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11873841/decriminalizing-psychedelic-drugs-in-california-as-senate-considers-bill-debate-continues","authors":["3205","11626"],"categories":["news_457","news_8","news_13"],"tags":["news_29473","news_5946","news_29474","news_23151","news_2139"],"featImg":"news_11873858","label":"news"},"news_11750149":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11750149","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11750149","score":null,"sort":[1558981106000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"a-u-s-army-tweet-asking-how-has-serving-impacted-you-got-an-agonizing-response","title":"A U.S. Army Tweet Asking 'How Has Serving Impacted You?' Got An Agonizing Response","publishDate":1558981106,"format":"standard","headTitle":"The California Report | KQED News","labelTerm":{},"content":"\u003cp>The U.S. Army \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/usarmy/status/1131704927963766785\">issued a tweet ahead of Memorial Day weekend \u003c/a>with a question for service members and veterans: \"How has serving impacted you?\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Among the thousands of responses: harrowing tales of trauma, depression and sexual assault.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In a thread, an Army tweet that preceded the question featured a video by Pfc. Nathan Spencer, a scout with the Army's First Infantry Division.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the video, Spencer says, \"To serve something greater than myself. The Army's afforded me the opportunity to do just that, to give to others, to protect the ones I love, and to better myself as a man and a warrior.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>https://twitter.com/USArmy/status/1131682502165315585\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Soon after the U.S. Army tweeted its question, thousands of responses began flooding in. Many people tweeted about the positive impact military service had on their lives, but others posted stories of post-traumatic stress disorder, illness and suicide brought on by experiences ranging from seeing loss of life to sexual assaults in the military.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>One man responded, \"How did serving impact me? Ask my family.\" He wrote of a \"Combat Cocktail\" which included \"PTSD, severe depression, anxiety. Isolation. Suicide attempts. Never ending rage.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>https://twitter.com/SeanP_75/status/1132574723097939968\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Another person wrote, \"After 15 years in I was kicked out after showing obviously signs of PTSD and depression. Now I can't function in society because of my major depressive disorder. So now what?\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>https://twitter.com/CorySchabacker/status/1132579887615754240\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Responses to the U.S. Army's Twitter post now number more than 11,000.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Many women responded with stories of sexual harassment and assault while serving in the military. One wrote of suffering from depression and anxiety, and said she \"still can't deal well with loud noises. I was assaulted by one of my superiors. When I reported him, with witnesses to corroborate my story, nothing happened to him. Nothing. A year later, he stole a laptop and was then demoted. I'm worth less than a laptop.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>https://twitter.com/IvoryGazelle/status/1132393967381884929\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Another response: \"My wife and I served in the @USArmy. We spent over 5 years geographically separated from each other. She was sexually assaulted on deployment and kicked out of the army for seeking treatment bc she was then deemed unfit for service. I got out bc her assaulters went unpunished.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>https://twitter.com/johnsoncale1/status/1132840016693014529\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Others wrote of loved ones, friends and relatives who had taken their own lives during or after their service in the military.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>https://twitter.com/lacymjohnson/status/1132273031357902848\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/MikeSchmidt69/status/1132559900813475846\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">One Twitter user wrote\u003c/a>, \"Some say this thread back-fired but this is just the thread that is needed each memorial day so we remember the sacrifices military members and their families make and how we as a country need to understand the true cost of service and improve our support.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The U.S. Army responded to the outpouring on May 25, tweeting: \"To everyone who responded to this thread, thank you for sharing your story. Your stories are real, they matter, and they may help others in similar situations. The Army is committed to the health, safety, and well-being of our Soldiers.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/USArmy/status/1132386171382902787\">In a separate tweet\u003c/a>, it said: \"As we honor those who paid the ultimate sacrifice this weekend by remembering their service, we are also mindful of the fact that we have to take care of those who came back home with scars we can't see.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>https://twitter.com/USArmy/status/1132386169965228038\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>On the same day, the Army also \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/USArmy/status/1132386172494393356\">posted a tweet\u003c/a> with a link and phone number for the \u003ca href=\"https://www.veteranscrisisline.net/\">Veterans Crisis Line\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>According to the Department of Veterans Affairs, there are \u003ca href=\"https://www.mentalhealth.va.gov/docs/data-sheets/2016/2016_Data_Release_FAQ_508.pdf\">approximately 20 million veterans\u003c/a> in the U.S., and fewer than half receive VA benefits or services. The department says suicide rates among veterans are rising, and in 2016, the suicide rate was 1.5 times greater than for non-veteran adults. \u003ca href=\"https://www.mentalhealth.va.gov/docs/data-sheets/OMHSP_National_Suicide_Data_Report_2005-2016_508.pdf\">A VA report last year \u003c/a>found more 6,000 veterans have died by suicide each year from 2008 to 2016.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>If you or someone you know may be considering suicide, contact the \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"http://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/\">National Suicide Prevention Lifeline\u003c/a>\u003cem> at 1-800-273-8255 (En Español: 1-888-628-9454; Deaf and Hard of Hearing: 1-800-799-4889) or the \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"http://www.crisistextline.org/\">Crisis Text Line\u003c/a>\u003cem> by texting HOME to 741741.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Veterans in need of help can access the Veterans Crisis Line by calling 800-273-8255 or through this website: \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"https://www.veteranscrisisline.net/\">\u003cem>www.veteranscrisisline.net\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Copyright 2019 \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org\" rel=\"noopener\" target=\"_blank\">NPR\u003c/a>.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"In response to the May 23 tweet, thousands of veterans and their loved ones shared stories of trauma, depression, illness, sexual assault and suicide.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1558981376,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":21,"wordCount":749},"headData":{"title":"A U.S. Army Tweet Asking 'How Has Serving Impacted You?' Got An Agonizing Response | KQED","description":"In response to the May 23 tweet, thousands of veterans and their loved ones shared stories of trauma, depression, illness, sexual assault and suicide.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":""},"disqusIdentifier":"11750149 https://ww2.kqed.org/news/?p=11750149","disqusUrl":"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/2019/05/27/a-u-s-army-tweet-asking-how-has-serving-impacted-you-got-an-agonizing-response/","disqusTitle":"A U.S. Army Tweet Asking 'How Has Serving Impacted You?' Got An Agonizing Response","source":"NPR","sourceUrl":"https://www.npr.org/2019/05/27/727254720/a-u-s-army-tweet-asking-how-has-serving-impacted-you-got-an-agonizing-response","nprImageCredit":"Erich Schlegel","nprByline":"Shannon Van Sant\u003cbr>Stacey Samuel\u003cbr>NPR","nprImageAgency":"AP","nprStoryId":"727254720","nprApiLink":"http://api.npr.org/query?id=727254720&apiKey=MDAxOTAwOTE4MDEyMTkxMDAzNjczZDljZA004","nprHtmlLink":"https://www.npr.org/2019/05/27/727254720/a-u-s-army-tweet-asking-how-has-serving-impacted-you-got-an-agonizing-response?ft=nprml&f=727254720","nprRetrievedStory":"1","nprPubDate":"Mon, 27 May 2019 12:37:00 -0400","nprStoryDate":"Mon, 27 May 2019 12:37:00 -0400","nprLastModifiedDate":"Mon, 27 May 2019 12:37:22 -0400","path":"/news/11750149/a-u-s-army-tweet-asking-how-has-serving-impacted-you-got-an-agonizing-response","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>The U.S. Army \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/usarmy/status/1131704927963766785\">issued a tweet ahead of Memorial Day weekend \u003c/a>with a question for service members and veterans: \"How has serving impacted you?\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Among the thousands of responses: harrowing tales of trauma, depression and sexual assault.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In a thread, an Army tweet that preceded the question featured a video by Pfc. Nathan Spencer, a scout with the Army's First Infantry Division.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the video, Spencer says, \"To serve something greater than myself. The Army's afforded me the opportunity to do just that, to give to others, to protect the ones I love, and to better myself as a man and a warrior.\"\u003c/p>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"singleTwitterStatus","attributes":{"named":{"id":"1131682502165315585"},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003cp>Soon after the U.S. Army tweeted its question, thousands of responses began flooding in. Many people tweeted about the positive impact military service had on their lives, but others posted stories of post-traumatic stress disorder, illness and suicide brought on by experiences ranging from seeing loss of life to sexual assaults in the military.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>One man responded, \"How did serving impact me? Ask my family.\" He wrote of a \"Combat Cocktail\" which included \"PTSD, severe depression, anxiety. Isolation. Suicide attempts. Never ending rage.\"\u003c/p>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"singleTwitterStatus","attributes":{"named":{"id":"1132574723097939968"},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003cp>Another person wrote, \"After 15 years in I was kicked out after showing obviously signs of PTSD and depression. Now I can't function in society because of my major depressive disorder. So now what?\"\u003c/p>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"singleTwitterStatus","attributes":{"named":{"id":"1132579887615754240"},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003cp>Responses to the U.S. Army's Twitter post now number more than 11,000.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Many women responded with stories of sexual harassment and assault while serving in the military. One wrote of suffering from depression and anxiety, and said she \"still can't deal well with loud noises. I was assaulted by one of my superiors. When I reported him, with witnesses to corroborate my story, nothing happened to him. Nothing. A year later, he stole a laptop and was then demoted. I'm worth less than a laptop.\"\u003c/p>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"singleTwitterStatus","attributes":{"named":{"id":"1132393967381884929"},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003cp>Another response: \"My wife and I served in the @USArmy. We spent over 5 years geographically separated from each other. She was sexually assaulted on deployment and kicked out of the army for seeking treatment bc she was then deemed unfit for service. I got out bc her assaulters went unpunished.\"\u003c/p>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"singleTwitterStatus","attributes":{"named":{"id":"1132840016693014529"},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003cp>Others wrote of loved ones, friends and relatives who had taken their own lives during or after their service in the military.\u003c/p>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"singleTwitterStatus","attributes":{"named":{"id":"1132273031357902848"},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/MikeSchmidt69/status/1132559900813475846\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">One Twitter user wrote\u003c/a>, \"Some say this thread back-fired but this is just the thread that is needed each memorial day so we remember the sacrifices military members and their families make and how we as a country need to understand the true cost of service and improve our support.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The U.S. Army responded to the outpouring on May 25, tweeting: \"To everyone who responded to this thread, thank you for sharing your story. Your stories are real, they matter, and they may help others in similar situations. The Army is committed to the health, safety, and well-being of our Soldiers.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/USArmy/status/1132386171382902787\">In a separate tweet\u003c/a>, it said: \"As we honor those who paid the ultimate sacrifice this weekend by remembering their service, we are also mindful of the fact that we have to take care of those who came back home with scars we can't see.\"\u003c/p>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"singleTwitterStatus","attributes":{"named":{"id":"1132386169965228038"},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003cp>On the same day, the Army also \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/USArmy/status/1132386172494393356\">posted a tweet\u003c/a> with a link and phone number for the \u003ca href=\"https://www.veteranscrisisline.net/\">Veterans Crisis Line\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>According to the Department of Veterans Affairs, there are \u003ca href=\"https://www.mentalhealth.va.gov/docs/data-sheets/2016/2016_Data_Release_FAQ_508.pdf\">approximately 20 million veterans\u003c/a> in the U.S., and fewer than half receive VA benefits or services. The department says suicide rates among veterans are rising, and in 2016, the suicide rate was 1.5 times greater than for non-veteran adults. \u003ca href=\"https://www.mentalhealth.va.gov/docs/data-sheets/OMHSP_National_Suicide_Data_Report_2005-2016_508.pdf\">A VA report last year \u003c/a>found more 6,000 veterans have died by suicide each year from 2008 to 2016.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>If you or someone you know may be considering suicide, contact the \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"http://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/\">National Suicide Prevention Lifeline\u003c/a>\u003cem> at 1-800-273-8255 (En Español: 1-888-628-9454; Deaf and Hard of Hearing: 1-800-799-4889) or the \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"http://www.crisistextline.org/\">Crisis Text Line\u003c/a>\u003cem> by texting HOME to 741741.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Veterans in need of help can access the Veterans Crisis Line by calling 800-273-8255 or through this website: \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"https://www.veteranscrisisline.net/\">\u003cem>www.veteranscrisisline.net\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Copyright 2019 \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org\" rel=\"noopener\" target=\"_blank\">NPR\u003c/a>.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11750149/a-u-s-army-tweet-asking-how-has-serving-impacted-you-got-an-agonizing-response","authors":["byline_news_11750149"],"programs":["news_72"],"categories":["news_6188","news_8"],"tags":["news_21680","news_18146","news_2139"],"affiliates":["news_253"],"featImg":"news_11750150","label":"source_news_11750149"},"news_11653301":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11653301","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11653301","score":null,"sort":[1541953855000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"ode-to-a-vietnam-vet","title":"Ode to a Vietnam Vet","publishDate":1541953855,"format":"audio","headTitle":"The California Report | KQED News","labelTerm":{"term":72,"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp>\u003cem>This story was originally published on March 2, 2018.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As a journalist, the relationships I develop with the people I report on are often deeply intimate, but fleeting. I talk with people about some of their most vulnerable moments, write a story, and then usually never see them again. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But that’s not how it went with Ron Fleming.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I met Ron at the San Francisco VA Hospital. I was working on a story about Vietnam vets and \u003ca href=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/stateofhealth/2017/11/09/what-vets-want-at-the-end-of-life-is-very-different-from-what-civilians-want/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">how their PTSD can flare up\u003c/a> as they approach the end of life. I interviewed Ron for about two hours. A week later, he called me, and asked me out to lunch. He’s careful to say that he noticed my wedding ring. He says, “I don’t mean any funny business.” He’s 74.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[contextly_sidebar id=\"2FNa0WStmLDEUnLU6ZIPD1EUJtMtidlm\"]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I stall for a couple weeks, then eventually say yes. Maybe out of some sense of obligation. Maybe because he has the same name as my dad, who died when I was young. But really, I just like Ron. He says things like “We didn’t lose that war. Everywhere I went, we literally kicked the crap out of ‘em.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We meet at a Chinese restaurant in a shopping center in Oakland. He’s wearing a wool VFW beret and suspenders. Bits of Mongolian beef fall into his beard as he tells me the same war stories he told me a few weeks before. Some word for word.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For example, this reflection on the insult “baby killer”:\u003c/p>\n\u003cblockquote>\u003cp>We did kill women and kids. We had to. Because one of the things I learned soon, was a woman or a kid will kill you just as dead as an old man will, and just as fast. One of the tactics that the VC would use was they would take this cute little girl, about five or six years old, right? Strap a bomb on her back. And tell her, 'You see them Americans there? They like little girls. And they got chewing gum and candy. Go on over and say hi to ‘em.'\u003c/p>\u003c/blockquote>\n\u003cp>As I’m trying to think of what to say, a woman one table over interrupts. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Excuse me! No one wants to hear about killing children. We’re trying to have \u003cem>lunch\u003c/em> over here.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Ron lowers his head but keeps his eyes up, like a wolf growling. But he says nothing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I want to crawl into the pot of green tea and disappear. But I force myself to turn around, and I say to the woman, something like, “We’re having lunch, too. And this is what we… wanna… talk about?”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Then I turn back to Ron. He says, “let’s get out of here.” We say an awkward goodbye in the parking lot. And I drive home thinking of all the other things I wish I’d said or done.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When the story about PTSD and aging Vietnam vets airs on the radio, I get emails from some vets saying they’re still haunted by flashbacks later in life, and thanks for the story. And I get emails from other vets calling me naïve and sentimental. They say vets need to man up and get over it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I got a hand-written card from Ron. He didn’t say anything about the story. I don’t know if he liked it or hated it. He just said, “Thanks for sticking up for me in the restaurant.” \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He said to call him sometime. He has a lot more stories he can tell.\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"A reporter goes out to lunch with a source. That meeting is way more important than the story she writes.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1541966222,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":19,"wordCount":627},"headData":{"title":"Ode to a Vietnam Vet | KQED","description":"A reporter goes out to lunch with a source. That meeting is way more important than the story she writes.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":""},"disqusIdentifier":"11653301 https://ww2.kqed.org/news/?p=11653301","disqusUrl":"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/2018/11/11/ode-to-a-vietnam-vet/","disqusTitle":"Ode to a Vietnam Vet","audioUrl":"https://www.kqed.org/.stream/anon/radio/tcrmag/2018/03/OdeToAVet.mp3","audioTrackLength":281,"path":"/news/11653301/ode-to-a-vietnam-vet","audioDuration":298000,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cem>This story was originally published on March 2, 2018.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As a journalist, the relationships I develop with the people I report on are often deeply intimate, but fleeting. I talk with people about some of their most vulnerable moments, write a story, and then usually never see them again. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But that’s not how it went with Ron Fleming.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I met Ron at the San Francisco VA Hospital. I was working on a story about Vietnam vets and \u003ca href=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/stateofhealth/2017/11/09/what-vets-want-at-the-end-of-life-is-very-different-from-what-civilians-want/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">how their PTSD can flare up\u003c/a> as they approach the end of life. I interviewed Ron for about two hours. A week later, he called me, and asked me out to lunch. He’s careful to say that he noticed my wedding ring. He says, “I don’t mean any funny business.” He’s 74.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I stall for a couple weeks, then eventually say yes. Maybe out of some sense of obligation. Maybe because he has the same name as my dad, who died when I was young. But really, I just like Ron. He says things like “We didn’t lose that war. Everywhere I went, we literally kicked the crap out of ‘em.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We meet at a Chinese restaurant in a shopping center in Oakland. He’s wearing a wool VFW beret and suspenders. Bits of Mongolian beef fall into his beard as he tells me the same war stories he told me a few weeks before. Some word for word.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For example, this reflection on the insult “baby killer”:\u003c/p>\n\u003cblockquote>\u003cp>We did kill women and kids. We had to. Because one of the things I learned soon, was a woman or a kid will kill you just as dead as an old man will, and just as fast. One of the tactics that the VC would use was they would take this cute little girl, about five or six years old, right? Strap a bomb on her back. And tell her, 'You see them Americans there? They like little girls. And they got chewing gum and candy. Go on over and say hi to ‘em.'\u003c/p>\u003c/blockquote>\n\u003cp>As I’m trying to think of what to say, a woman one table over interrupts. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Excuse me! No one wants to hear about killing children. We’re trying to have \u003cem>lunch\u003c/em> over here.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Ron lowers his head but keeps his eyes up, like a wolf growling. But he says nothing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I want to crawl into the pot of green tea and disappear. But I force myself to turn around, and I say to the woman, something like, “We’re having lunch, too. And this is what we… wanna… talk about?”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Then I turn back to Ron. He says, “let’s get out of here.” We say an awkward goodbye in the parking lot. And I drive home thinking of all the other things I wish I’d said or done.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When the story about PTSD and aging Vietnam vets airs on the radio, I get emails from some vets saying they’re still haunted by flashbacks later in life, and thanks for the story. And I get emails from other vets calling me naïve and sentimental. They say vets need to man up and get over it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I got a hand-written card from Ron. He didn’t say anything about the story. I don’t know if he liked it or hated it. He just said, “Thanks for sticking up for me in the restaurant.” \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He said to call him sometime. He has a lot more stories he can tell.\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11653301/ode-to-a-vietnam-vet","authors":["3205"],"programs":["news_72"],"categories":["news_457","news_8"],"tags":["news_2139","news_17286","news_21620","news_237"],"featImg":"news_11653592","label":"news_72"},"news_11705269":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11705269","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11705269","score":null,"sort":[1541798222000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"official-gunman-went-on-social-media-during-thousand-oaks-bar-attack","title":"Official: Gunman Went on Social Media During Thousand Oaks Bar Attack","publishDate":1541798222,"format":"standard","headTitle":"The California Report | KQED News","labelTerm":{"term":72,"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp>The gunman who \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11704856/12-victims-killed-in-shooting-at-country-music-bar-in-thousand-oaks-california\" rel=\"noopener\" target=\"_blank\">killed 12 people at a country music bar in Thousand Oaks late Wednesday\u003c/a> went on social media during the attack, and posted about his mental state and whether people would believe he was sane, a law enforcement official said Friday.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>One of the possibilities investigators are looking into is whether gunman Ian David Long believed his former girlfriend would be at the bar, the official said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Authorities have not determined a motive for the rampage at the Borderline Bar & Grill.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The official — who was briefed on the investigation but not authorized to discuss it publicly and spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity — would not give additional details on what the 28-year-old former Marine posted on his Facebook and Instagram accounts.\u003c/p>\n\u003caside class=\"pullquote alignright\">'I don't want prayers. I don't want thoughts. I want those bastards in Congress — they need to pass gun control so no one else has a child that doesn't come home.'\u003ccite>Susan Schmidt-Orfanos, mother of Thousand Oaks shooting victim Telemachus Orfanos\u003c/cite>\u003c/aside>\n\u003cp>Long, a former machine gunner who served in Afghanistan, opened fire with a handgun in the attack, then apparently killed himself as scores of law enforcement officers closed in.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As investigators worked to figure out what set him off, President Donald Trump blamed mental illness, describing the gunman as \"a very sick puppy\" who had \"a lot of problems.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Investigators have not commented on whether mental illness played a role in the rampage.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Neighbors reported hearing frequent loud fights between Ian David Long and his mother, one of them so extreme they called police in April, and authorities at the time worried that the 28-year-old Afghanistan war veteran might have post-traumatic stress disorder, though a mental health specialist concluded there were no grounds to have him involuntarily committed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Experts have also \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11705089/thousand-oaks-shooters-health-frayed-in-college-roommate-says\" rel=\"noopener\" target=\"_blank\">cautioned against tying possible PTSD to acts of violence\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The dead included sheriff's Sgt. Ron Helus, a 29-year law enforcement veteran nearing retirement who responded to reports of shots fired and was gunned down as he entered the bar. He and other first responders \"ran toward danger,\" Sheriff Geoff Dean said at a vigil Thursday evening, calling Helus a hero.\u003c/p>\n\u003caside class=\"alignright\">\n\u003ch3>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11704939/bay-area-reps-with-democrats-in-control-of-house-its-time-for-a-gun-control-bill\">Bay Area Reps: With Democrats in Control of House, It’s Time for a Gun Control Bill\u003c/a>\u003c/h3>\n\u003cfigure>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11704939/bay-area-reps-with-democrats-in-control-of-house-its-time-for-a-gun-control-bill\">\u003cimg src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/11/NewburyParkHouse-1180x787.jpg\" alt=\"\">\u003c/a>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/aside>\n\u003cp>Also killed was a man who had survived last year's massacre in Las Vegas, Telemachus Orfanos, 27.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"I don't want prayers. I don't want thoughts,\" said his mother, Susan Schmidt-Orfanos. \"I want those bastards in Congress — they need to pass gun control so no one else has a child that doesn't come home.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Dani Merrill, who escaped from the Borderline bar when the shooting began, had also attended the 2017 Las Vegas country music festival where a gunman in a high-rise hotel opened fire and killed 58 people. She was appalled that such bloodshed had come to her community.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"I'm super upset that it happened in our home, and I feel awful for the families that have to go through this,\" Merrill said at the vigil.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At the White House, Trump touted his efforts to fund work on PTSD among veterans. He declined to engage on questions on whether the nation needs stricter gun control laws.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Julie Hanson, who lives next door to the ranch-style home that Long shared with his mother, described him as \"odd\" and \"disrespectful\" well before he left home a decade ago, got married and enlisted in the Marines. She could often hear him yelling and cursing, but several months ago unusually loud banging and shouting prompted her husband to call authorities.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"I was concerned because I knew he had been in the military,\" Tom Hanson said.\u003c/p>\n\u003caside class=\"alignright\">\n\u003ch3>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11705089/thousand-oaks-shooters-health-frayed-in-college-roommate-says\">Thousand Oaks Shooter's Health Frayed in College, Roommate Says\u003c/a>\u003c/h3>\n\u003cfigure>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11705089/thousand-oaks-shooters-health-frayed-in-college-roommate-says\">\u003cimg src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/11/NewburyParkHouse-1180x787.jpg\" alt=\"\">\u003c/a>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/aside>\n\u003cp>About 18 months ago, Don and Effie MacLeod heard \"an awful argument\" and what he believes was a gunshot from the Longs' property. Don MacLeod said he did not call police, but avoided speaking with Ian Long.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"I told my wife, 'Just be polite to him. If he talks, just acknowledge him, don't go into conversation with him,'\" Don MacLeod said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"Hope has sustained communities, very much like Thousand Oaks, through the exact same triages of mass shootings,\" said Andy Fox, the city's outgoing mayor. \"Tonight Thousand Oaks takes its place with those cities, who in order to move forward will rely on hope. ... We are Thousand Oaks strong.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It was the nation's deadliest such attack since 17 students and teachers were killed at a Parkland, Florida, high school nine months ago. It also came less than two weeks after a gunman massacred 11 people at a synagogue in Pittsburgh.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"Ian David Long posted about his mental state and whether people would believe he was sane, a law enforcement official said Friday.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1541798222,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":23,"wordCount":796},"headData":{"title":"Official: Gunman Went on Social Media During Thousand Oaks Bar Attack | KQED","description":"Ian David Long posted about his mental state and whether people would believe he was sane, a law enforcement official said Friday.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":""},"disqusIdentifier":"11705269 https://ww2.kqed.org/news/?p=11705269","disqusUrl":"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/2018/11/09/official-gunman-went-on-social-media-during-thousand-oaks-bar-attack/","disqusTitle":"Official: Gunman Went on Social Media During Thousand Oaks Bar Attack","nprByline":"Jonathan J. Cooper and Michael Balsamo \u003cbr> Associated Press","path":"/news/11705269/official-gunman-went-on-social-media-during-thousand-oaks-bar-attack","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>The gunman who \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11704856/12-victims-killed-in-shooting-at-country-music-bar-in-thousand-oaks-california\" rel=\"noopener\" target=\"_blank\">killed 12 people at a country music bar in Thousand Oaks late Wednesday\u003c/a> went on social media during the attack, and posted about his mental state and whether people would believe he was sane, a law enforcement official said Friday.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>One of the possibilities investigators are looking into is whether gunman Ian David Long believed his former girlfriend would be at the bar, the official said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Authorities have not determined a motive for the rampage at the Borderline Bar & Grill.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The official — who was briefed on the investigation but not authorized to discuss it publicly and spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity — would not give additional details on what the 28-year-old former Marine posted on his Facebook and Instagram accounts.\u003c/p>\n\u003caside class=\"pullquote alignright\">'I don't want prayers. I don't want thoughts. I want those bastards in Congress — they need to pass gun control so no one else has a child that doesn't come home.'\u003ccite>Susan Schmidt-Orfanos, mother of Thousand Oaks shooting victim Telemachus Orfanos\u003c/cite>\u003c/aside>\n\u003cp>Long, a former machine gunner who served in Afghanistan, opened fire with a handgun in the attack, then apparently killed himself as scores of law enforcement officers closed in.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As investigators worked to figure out what set him off, President Donald Trump blamed mental illness, describing the gunman as \"a very sick puppy\" who had \"a lot of problems.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Investigators have not commented on whether mental illness played a role in the rampage.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Neighbors reported hearing frequent loud fights between Ian David Long and his mother, one of them so extreme they called police in April, and authorities at the time worried that the 28-year-old Afghanistan war veteran might have post-traumatic stress disorder, though a mental health specialist concluded there were no grounds to have him involuntarily committed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Experts have also \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11705089/thousand-oaks-shooters-health-frayed-in-college-roommate-says\" rel=\"noopener\" target=\"_blank\">cautioned against tying possible PTSD to acts of violence\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The dead included sheriff's Sgt. Ron Helus, a 29-year law enforcement veteran nearing retirement who responded to reports of shots fired and was gunned down as he entered the bar. He and other first responders \"ran toward danger,\" Sheriff Geoff Dean said at a vigil Thursday evening, calling Helus a hero.\u003c/p>\n\u003caside class=\"alignright\">\n\u003ch3>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11704939/bay-area-reps-with-democrats-in-control-of-house-its-time-for-a-gun-control-bill\">Bay Area Reps: With Democrats in Control of House, It’s Time for a Gun Control Bill\u003c/a>\u003c/h3>\n\u003cfigure>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11704939/bay-area-reps-with-democrats-in-control-of-house-its-time-for-a-gun-control-bill\">\u003cimg src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/11/NewburyParkHouse-1180x787.jpg\" alt=\"\">\u003c/a>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/aside>\n\u003cp>Also killed was a man who had survived last year's massacre in Las Vegas, Telemachus Orfanos, 27.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"I don't want prayers. I don't want thoughts,\" said his mother, Susan Schmidt-Orfanos. \"I want those bastards in Congress — they need to pass gun control so no one else has a child that doesn't come home.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Dani Merrill, who escaped from the Borderline bar when the shooting began, had also attended the 2017 Las Vegas country music festival where a gunman in a high-rise hotel opened fire and killed 58 people. She was appalled that such bloodshed had come to her community.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"I'm super upset that it happened in our home, and I feel awful for the families that have to go through this,\" Merrill said at the vigil.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At the White House, Trump touted his efforts to fund work on PTSD among veterans. He declined to engage on questions on whether the nation needs stricter gun control laws.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Julie Hanson, who lives next door to the ranch-style home that Long shared with his mother, described him as \"odd\" and \"disrespectful\" well before he left home a decade ago, got married and enlisted in the Marines. She could often hear him yelling and cursing, but several months ago unusually loud banging and shouting prompted her husband to call authorities.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"I was concerned because I knew he had been in the military,\" Tom Hanson said.\u003c/p>\n\u003caside class=\"alignright\">\n\u003ch3>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11705089/thousand-oaks-shooters-health-frayed-in-college-roommate-says\">Thousand Oaks Shooter's Health Frayed in College, Roommate Says\u003c/a>\u003c/h3>\n\u003cfigure>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11705089/thousand-oaks-shooters-health-frayed-in-college-roommate-says\">\u003cimg src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/11/NewburyParkHouse-1180x787.jpg\" alt=\"\">\u003c/a>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/aside>\n\u003cp>About 18 months ago, Don and Effie MacLeod heard \"an awful argument\" and what he believes was a gunshot from the Longs' property. Don MacLeod said he did not call police, but avoided speaking with Ian Long.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"I told my wife, 'Just be polite to him. If he talks, just acknowledge him, don't go into conversation with him,'\" Don MacLeod said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"Hope has sustained communities, very much like Thousand Oaks, through the exact same triages of mass shootings,\" said Andy Fox, the city's outgoing mayor. \"Tonight Thousand Oaks takes its place with those cities, who in order to move forward will rely on hope. ... We are Thousand Oaks strong.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It was the nation's deadliest such attack since 17 students and teachers were killed at a Parkland, Florida, high school nine months ago. It also came less than two weeks after a gunman massacred 11 people at a synagogue in Pittsburgh.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11705269/official-gunman-went-on-social-media-during-thousand-oaks-bar-attack","authors":["byline_news_11705269"],"programs":["news_72"],"categories":["news_6188","news_8","news_248"],"tags":["news_2795","news_24486","news_18939","news_2139","news_1089","news_24482"],"featImg":"news_11705285","label":"news_72"},"news_11698335":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11698335","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11698335","score":null,"sort":[1539387661000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"a-little-broken-first-responders-grapple-with-unseen-scars-of-the-2017-fire-siege","title":"'A Little Broken' - First Responders Grapple With Unseen Scars of the 2017 Fire Siege","publishDate":1539387661,"format":"image","headTitle":"The California Report | KQED News","labelTerm":{"term":72,"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp>[dropcap]S[/dropcap]hortly after Lucas Boek joined his local fire department, he saw a veteran firefighter walk into firehouse and drop all his gear. “’That’s it, I’m done,’” Boek remembers the man saying. “’I can’t do this anymore.’ And he left.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Over the years, the incident stuck with him.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Now, Boek is sitting and talking with two other men in a Ukiah high school classroom. Between the three — medic Corey Bender, 44, and firefighters Lucas Boek, 40, and Brendan Turner, 46 — they have nearly 60 years of experience in emergency response. Sixty years of running toward car accidents, gunshots and flames.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But it’s not the physical danger of the work that these guys are talking about today. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s something else, something that until recently has been pretty difficult to discuss openly: their mental health. A \u003ca href=\"http://rudermanfoundation.org/white_papers/police-officers-and-firefighters-are-more-likely-to-die-by-suicide-than-in-line-of-duty/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">2017 study\u003c/a> found that police officers and firefighters are more likely to die by suicide than in the line of duty. Another \u003ca href=\"https://www.phoenix.edu/about_us/media-center/news/uopx-releases-first-responder-mental-health-survey-results.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">survey\u003c/a> done last year by the University of Phoenix found that 85 percent of first responders have symptoms related to mental health issues.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“To a certain extent I agree with what my therapist said, which is that she's never met a first responder that's been working in the field full-time for more than 20 years that isn't a little bit messed up,” Turner says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11698397\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/10/IMG_2982-800x533.jpg\" alt=\"Brendan Turner stands by his fire truck behind the Redwood Valley Fire Department in Mendocino.\" width=\"800\" height=\"533\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11698397\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Brendan Turner stands by his fire truck behind the Redwood Valley Fire Department in Mendocino. \u003ccite>(Marisa Lagos/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>As they talk, these guys keep going back to the metaphor of “the bucket” to explain the effect of cumulative stress on their psyches. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Each call they respond to adds another rock to that bucket, and when that bucket overflows, the effects can be disastrous.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Bender says he’s personally known veteran paramedics and firefighters who have quit on a dime, have been alienated from their families or have committed suicide after years of service.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“And the number one killer in the fire and EMS services is heart attack,” Bender says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The conversation these three guys are having was pretty unthinkable even just a few years ago. But for many of those who responded to the October fire siege, this conversation is not only urgent now — but finally possible.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“You know every single call was a drop in that bucket, and that bucket for some of us was pretty darn close to full before that happened,” Turner says. “It got kicked over in October for many of us.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Last October\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>On Oct. 8, 2017, Turner was acting fire chief in Redwood Valley, when he got a call around 11:30 p.m. about a fire in the neighboring town of Potter Valley. An hour later, an ember pushed by incredibly high winds ignited another fire that was sweeping down into Redwood Valley.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Firefighters consider a fire moving at 3 mph to be extremely dangerous, Turner says. This fire was moving 18-20 mph.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11698403\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/10/IMG_3013-e1539362096335-800x1200.jpg\" alt=\"Redwood Valley relies on a largely volunteer firefighting department like many rural towns.\" width=\"800\" height=\"1200\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11698403\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Redwood Valley relies on a largely volunteer firefighting department like many rural towns. \u003ccite>(Marisa Lagos/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“You can't outrun that on foot,” Turner says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Turner remembers that night like a series of movie trailers in his head — disjointed and in no particular order. It is a blur of trying to rescue people trapped by flames and making split-second life-or-death decisions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I don't know that I'm ever going to have that full movie in my head,” he says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It was like nothing Turner had seen before, and it devastated their tiny community of fewer than 2,000 people, burning down more than 500 homes. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Turner’s in-laws lost their home. Another volunteer firefighter drove past his own home on fire, to evacuate people from harm’s way. He wasn’t able to confirm until the following morning that his wife made it out alive. Nine people, including two teenagers, died.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For Turner and Boek, this fire was incredibly personal. They had spent time inside the homes that were burning and knew the burn patients they were bandaging and sending to the hospital.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“For me it just really wrecked me, like it really hurt a lot,” Boek said.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>An Injury, Not a Disorder\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Turner says in the months after the fire he became a hermit. He stopped going out in public or shopping at the local supermarket.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“My perception was that, you know, people were looking at me different,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But isolation also didn’t help. He would wake up in the night in full fight-or-flight mode, replaying the worst calls of his career. When the wind picked up, his whole body would go taut and his chest would tighten.\u003c/p>\n\u003caside class=\"alignright\">\n\u003ch2>Mental Health Resources for First Responders\u003c/h2>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"http://www.managingtheghosts.org/resources/\">‘Managing the Ghosts,’ a Meeting Directory for First Responders\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.facebook.com/managingtheghosts/?ref=br_rs\">A First Responders Facebook Group\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.helpguide.org/articles/ptsd-trauma/helping-someone-with-ptsd.htm\">Resources for the Loved Ones of First Responders\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"http://ptsdusa.org/get-help/first-responders/ptsd-assessment-form/\">A PTSD Assessment Form for First Responders\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\u003c/aside>\n\u003cp>Then on Christmas Eve, a friend who’d also been an emergency responder came up to him at a party.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"That person approached me and said, ‘I think you need to talk to somebody,'\" Turner remembers. “Without blinking. I said, ‘Yes I think that's a good idea.'\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In therapy Turner was finally able to talk about not just the October firestorm, but his 23 years of being a witness to some of the most extreme and traumatic events human beings experience. It all came tumbling out of him.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Not surprisingly, Turner was diagnosed with PTSD. But he doesn’t think of it as a disorder, which implies a pre-existing condition. He calls it an injury.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I look at it the same way as if I were to break my ankle on a call,” he says. “I would go to an orthopedic surgeon, right, and get that fixed? I view this the same way.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Turner says now he is learning how to treat this injury, through breathing techniques, meditation and by reaching out to other first responders.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Not the Only One\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Earlier this year, Turner reached out to Corey Bender, his old friend from paramedic school, with the idea of putting together a peer group.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I’m like, ‘I think that’s an amazing idea,'\" Bender says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11698401\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/10/IMG_3363-800x600.jpg\" alt=\"Corey Bender has been a medic for 18 years. He now lives in Redwood Valley.\" width=\"800\" height=\"600\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11698401\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Corey Bender has been a medic for 18 years. He now lives in Redwood Valley. \u003ccite>(Sukey Lewis/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Completely independently, Bender found he was being approached by more and more people — military veterans, police officers, medics and sheriff’s deputies — all of them speaking about the same thing: PTSD and cumulative stress.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The peer group now gets together every few weeks or so, and they just talk.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Turner remembers a meeting in which he was describing the symptoms he has of chest discomfort — a kind of numbing sensation that travels down his arm.\u003c/p>\n\u003caside class=\"pullquote alignright\">'I don’t want my kids to think that I’m hurt or broken, even though maybe I am a little hurt and broken.'\u003ccite>Firefighter Lucas Boek\u003c/cite>\u003c/aside>\n\u003cp>“One of the members of that group said, ‘Oh no it starts right here.’” Turner says the man pointed to an area on his chest.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“‘And it feels like crawling under your skin,'” Tuner says. “And I apologized. I said, ‘I'm sorry did I already tell you this?’ He goes, ‘No, I'm telling you what I experience.’ It was almost identical.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The group is made up primarily of people who have been doing this work for decades. They share bad calls, but also talk about their fears, their feelings and their families.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Firefighter Boek says he called up Turner one day because he felt like he was letting down his kids. He was used to being able to handle anything — he kind of felt like Superman. Now he found himself crying in the kitchen for no apparent reason.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I don’t want my kids to think that I’m hurt or broken, even though maybe I am a little hurt and broken,” Boek says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11698400\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/10/IMG_3366-800x600.jpg\" alt=\"Firefighter Lucas Boek says the Redwood Valley Fire hit himself and his community really hard.\" width=\"800\" height=\"600\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11698400\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Firefighter Lucas Boek says the Redwood Valley Fire hit himself and his community really hard. \u003ccite>(Sukey Lewis/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>But Turner says he has come to see that they’ve been actually letting down their families for years — by pretending that they’re not affected by this work. They can actually help their own kids, he says, and other young people who are just starting out as emergency responders by modeling emotional openness.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“If there's one positive that I can see from that horrible incident, it's that the shell that was starting to crack — the attitude and really the lack of honesty about emotions in emergency services — it went from having some cracks in it to shattering for a lot of us,” Turner says.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>A New Kind of Emergency Responder\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>A few months ago, Turned stepped down as assistant fire chief in Redwood Valley. He still volunteers, but he has a new job now teaching health occupations to high school kids.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Along with homework assignments and reading, the words “evacuations” and “disaster response” are written on whiteboard in his classroom.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Many of his students are considering a career in emergency response. He wants them to go into this work with their eyes wide open.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Recently, Turner’s class did a review of Hurricane Katrina. They spent three days watching footage of the disaster and discussing the health care crisis that occurred in the hurricane’s aftermath.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“That’s pretty heavy for some high school kids to watch that,” Turner says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So, a counselor for the school came into the classroom and did a presentation on techniques to deal with stress and emotions. Turner said when things would get intense, they would take a break and all practice breathing exercises.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11698407\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/10/RanchFire_AW_105-800x533.jpg\" alt=\"A firefighter holds a hand tool ready to build containment around the Ranch Fire. \" width=\"800\" height=\"533\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11698407\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A firefighter holds a hand tool ready to build containment around the Ranch Fire. \u003ccite>(Anne Wernikoff/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Turner hopes by sharing his own experiences and teaching these young people the tools to cope with those experiences, he can better equip them to manage their own buckets of rocks, now and in the future.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It doesn't have to end with the firefighter walking in and dropping their gear on the floor and saying you know, ‘Bleep this, I'm done,'\" he says. \"And I think that's really what we want to prevent.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>KQED reporter Marisa Lagos contributed to this report. \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"First responders say there’s a silver lining to the trauma: they’re having new conversations about PTSD and mental health following last year's devastating fires.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1539391503,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":53,"wordCount":1815},"headData":{"title":"'A Little Broken' - First Responders Grapple With Unseen Scars of the 2017 Fire Siege | KQED","description":"First responders say there’s a silver lining to the trauma: they’re having new conversations about PTSD and mental health following last year's devastating fires.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":""},"disqusIdentifier":"11698335 https://ww2.kqed.org/news/?p=11698335","disqusUrl":"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/2018/10/12/a-little-broken-first-responders-grapple-with-unseen-scars-of-the-2017-fire-siege/","disqusTitle":"'A Little Broken' - First Responders Grapple With Unseen Scars of the 2017 Fire Siege","audioUrl":"https://www.kqed.org/.stream/anon/radio/tcrmag/2018/10/LewisFirstResponders.mp3","audioTrackLength":485,"path":"/news/11698335/a-little-broken-first-responders-grapple-with-unseen-scars-of-the-2017-fire-siege","audioDuration":502000,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cspan class=\"utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__dropcapShortcode__dropcap\">S\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\u003cp>hortly after Lucas Boek joined his local fire department, he saw a veteran firefighter walk into firehouse and drop all his gear. “’That’s it, I’m done,’” Boek remembers the man saying. “’I can’t do this anymore.’ And he left.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Over the years, the incident stuck with him.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Now, Boek is sitting and talking with two other men in a Ukiah high school classroom. Between the three — medic Corey Bender, 44, and firefighters Lucas Boek, 40, and Brendan Turner, 46 — they have nearly 60 years of experience in emergency response. Sixty years of running toward car accidents, gunshots and flames.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But it’s not the physical danger of the work that these guys are talking about today. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s something else, something that until recently has been pretty difficult to discuss openly: their mental health. A \u003ca href=\"http://rudermanfoundation.org/white_papers/police-officers-and-firefighters-are-more-likely-to-die-by-suicide-than-in-line-of-duty/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">2017 study\u003c/a> found that police officers and firefighters are more likely to die by suicide than in the line of duty. Another \u003ca href=\"https://www.phoenix.edu/about_us/media-center/news/uopx-releases-first-responder-mental-health-survey-results.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">survey\u003c/a> done last year by the University of Phoenix found that 85 percent of first responders have symptoms related to mental health issues.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“To a certain extent I agree with what my therapist said, which is that she's never met a first responder that's been working in the field full-time for more than 20 years that isn't a little bit messed up,” Turner says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11698397\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/10/IMG_2982-800x533.jpg\" alt=\"Brendan Turner stands by his fire truck behind the Redwood Valley Fire Department in Mendocino.\" width=\"800\" height=\"533\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11698397\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Brendan Turner stands by his fire truck behind the Redwood Valley Fire Department in Mendocino. \u003ccite>(Marisa Lagos/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>As they talk, these guys keep going back to the metaphor of “the bucket” to explain the effect of cumulative stress on their psyches. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Each call they respond to adds another rock to that bucket, and when that bucket overflows, the effects can be disastrous.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Bender says he’s personally known veteran paramedics and firefighters who have quit on a dime, have been alienated from their families or have committed suicide after years of service.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“And the number one killer in the fire and EMS services is heart attack,” Bender says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The conversation these three guys are having was pretty unthinkable even just a few years ago. But for many of those who responded to the October fire siege, this conversation is not only urgent now — but finally possible.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“You know every single call was a drop in that bucket, and that bucket for some of us was pretty darn close to full before that happened,” Turner says. “It got kicked over in October for many of us.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Last October\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>On Oct. 8, 2017, Turner was acting fire chief in Redwood Valley, when he got a call around 11:30 p.m. about a fire in the neighboring town of Potter Valley. An hour later, an ember pushed by incredibly high winds ignited another fire that was sweeping down into Redwood Valley.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Firefighters consider a fire moving at 3 mph to be extremely dangerous, Turner says. This fire was moving 18-20 mph.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11698403\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/10/IMG_3013-e1539362096335-800x1200.jpg\" alt=\"Redwood Valley relies on a largely volunteer firefighting department like many rural towns.\" width=\"800\" height=\"1200\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11698403\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Redwood Valley relies on a largely volunteer firefighting department like many rural towns. \u003ccite>(Marisa Lagos/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“You can't outrun that on foot,” Turner says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Turner remembers that night like a series of movie trailers in his head — disjointed and in no particular order. It is a blur of trying to rescue people trapped by flames and making split-second life-or-death decisions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I don't know that I'm ever going to have that full movie in my head,” he says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It was like nothing Turner had seen before, and it devastated their tiny community of fewer than 2,000 people, burning down more than 500 homes. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Turner’s in-laws lost their home. Another volunteer firefighter drove past his own home on fire, to evacuate people from harm’s way. He wasn’t able to confirm until the following morning that his wife made it out alive. Nine people, including two teenagers, died.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For Turner and Boek, this fire was incredibly personal. They had spent time inside the homes that were burning and knew the burn patients they were bandaging and sending to the hospital.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“For me it just really wrecked me, like it really hurt a lot,” Boek said.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>An Injury, Not a Disorder\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Turner says in the months after the fire he became a hermit. He stopped going out in public or shopping at the local supermarket.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“My perception was that, you know, people were looking at me different,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But isolation also didn’t help. He would wake up in the night in full fight-or-flight mode, replaying the worst calls of his career. When the wind picked up, his whole body would go taut and his chest would tighten.\u003c/p>\n\u003caside class=\"alignright\">\n\u003ch2>Mental Health Resources for First Responders\u003c/h2>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"http://www.managingtheghosts.org/resources/\">‘Managing the Ghosts,’ a Meeting Directory for First Responders\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.facebook.com/managingtheghosts/?ref=br_rs\">A First Responders Facebook Group\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.helpguide.org/articles/ptsd-trauma/helping-someone-with-ptsd.htm\">Resources for the Loved Ones of First Responders\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"http://ptsdusa.org/get-help/first-responders/ptsd-assessment-form/\">A PTSD Assessment Form for First Responders\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\u003c/aside>\n\u003cp>Then on Christmas Eve, a friend who’d also been an emergency responder came up to him at a party.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"That person approached me and said, ‘I think you need to talk to somebody,'\" Turner remembers. “Without blinking. I said, ‘Yes I think that's a good idea.'\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In therapy Turner was finally able to talk about not just the October firestorm, but his 23 years of being a witness to some of the most extreme and traumatic events human beings experience. It all came tumbling out of him.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Not surprisingly, Turner was diagnosed with PTSD. But he doesn’t think of it as a disorder, which implies a pre-existing condition. He calls it an injury.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I look at it the same way as if I were to break my ankle on a call,” he says. “I would go to an orthopedic surgeon, right, and get that fixed? I view this the same way.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Turner says now he is learning how to treat this injury, through breathing techniques, meditation and by reaching out to other first responders.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Not the Only One\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Earlier this year, Turner reached out to Corey Bender, his old friend from paramedic school, with the idea of putting together a peer group.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I’m like, ‘I think that’s an amazing idea,'\" Bender says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11698401\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/10/IMG_3363-800x600.jpg\" alt=\"Corey Bender has been a medic for 18 years. He now lives in Redwood Valley.\" width=\"800\" height=\"600\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11698401\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Corey Bender has been a medic for 18 years. He now lives in Redwood Valley. \u003ccite>(Sukey Lewis/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Completely independently, Bender found he was being approached by more and more people — military veterans, police officers, medics and sheriff’s deputies — all of them speaking about the same thing: PTSD and cumulative stress.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The peer group now gets together every few weeks or so, and they just talk.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Turner remembers a meeting in which he was describing the symptoms he has of chest discomfort — a kind of numbing sensation that travels down his arm.\u003c/p>\n\u003caside class=\"pullquote alignright\">'I don’t want my kids to think that I’m hurt or broken, even though maybe I am a little hurt and broken.'\u003ccite>Firefighter Lucas Boek\u003c/cite>\u003c/aside>\n\u003cp>“One of the members of that group said, ‘Oh no it starts right here.’” Turner says the man pointed to an area on his chest.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“‘And it feels like crawling under your skin,'” Tuner says. “And I apologized. I said, ‘I'm sorry did I already tell you this?’ He goes, ‘No, I'm telling you what I experience.’ It was almost identical.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The group is made up primarily of people who have been doing this work for decades. They share bad calls, but also talk about their fears, their feelings and their families.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Firefighter Boek says he called up Turner one day because he felt like he was letting down his kids. He was used to being able to handle anything — he kind of felt like Superman. Now he found himself crying in the kitchen for no apparent reason.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I don’t want my kids to think that I’m hurt or broken, even though maybe I am a little hurt and broken,” Boek says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11698400\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/10/IMG_3366-800x600.jpg\" alt=\"Firefighter Lucas Boek says the Redwood Valley Fire hit himself and his community really hard.\" width=\"800\" height=\"600\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11698400\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Firefighter Lucas Boek says the Redwood Valley Fire hit himself and his community really hard. \u003ccite>(Sukey Lewis/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>But Turner says he has come to see that they’ve been actually letting down their families for years — by pretending that they’re not affected by this work. They can actually help their own kids, he says, and other young people who are just starting out as emergency responders by modeling emotional openness.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“If there's one positive that I can see from that horrible incident, it's that the shell that was starting to crack — the attitude and really the lack of honesty about emotions in emergency services — it went from having some cracks in it to shattering for a lot of us,” Turner says.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>A New Kind of Emergency Responder\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>A few months ago, Turned stepped down as assistant fire chief in Redwood Valley. He still volunteers, but he has a new job now teaching health occupations to high school kids.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Along with homework assignments and reading, the words “evacuations” and “disaster response” are written on whiteboard in his classroom.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Many of his students are considering a career in emergency response. He wants them to go into this work with their eyes wide open.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Recently, Turner’s class did a review of Hurricane Katrina. They spent three days watching footage of the disaster and discussing the health care crisis that occurred in the hurricane’s aftermath.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“That’s pretty heavy for some high school kids to watch that,” Turner says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So, a counselor for the school came into the classroom and did a presentation on techniques to deal with stress and emotions. Turner said when things would get intense, they would take a break and all practice breathing exercises.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11698407\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/10/RanchFire_AW_105-800x533.jpg\" alt=\"A firefighter holds a hand tool ready to build containment around the Ranch Fire. \" width=\"800\" height=\"533\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11698407\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A firefighter holds a hand tool ready to build containment around the Ranch Fire. \u003ccite>(Anne Wernikoff/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Turner hopes by sharing his own experiences and teaching these young people the tools to cope with those experiences, he can better equip them to manage their own buckets of rocks, now and in the future.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It doesn't have to end with the firefighter walking in and dropping their gear on the floor and saying you know, ‘Bleep this, I'm done,'\" he says. \"And I think that's really what we want to prevent.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>KQED reporter Marisa Lagos contributed to this report. \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11698335/a-little-broken-first-responders-grapple-with-unseen-scars-of-the-2017-fire-siege","authors":["8676"],"programs":["news_72"],"categories":["news_19906","news_457","news_8"],"tags":["news_6383","news_19542","news_18512","news_2109","news_21773","news_2139","news_21939","news_17041","news_20782","news_2138","news_4463"],"featImg":"news_11698526","label":"news_72"}},"programsReducer":{"possible":{"id":"possible","title":"Possible","info":"Possible is hosted by entrepreneur Reid Hoffman and writer Aria Finger. Together in Possible, Hoffman and Finger lead enlightening discussions about building a brighter collective future. The show features interviews with visionary guests like Trevor Noah, Sam Altman and Janette Sadik-Khan. Possible paints an optimistic portrait of the world we can create through science, policy, business, art and our shared humanity. It asks: What if everything goes right for once? How can we get there? Each episode also includes a short fiction story generated by advanced AI GPT-4, serving as a thought-provoking springboard to speculate how humanity could leverage technology for good.","airtime":"SUN 2pm","imageSrc":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Possible-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg","officialWebsiteLink":"https://www.possible.fm/","meta":{"site":"news","source":"Possible"},"link":"/radio/program/possible","subscribe":{"apple":"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/possible/id1677184070","spotify":"https://open.spotify.com/show/730YpdUSNlMyPQwNnyjp4k"}},"1a":{"id":"1a","title":"1A","info":"1A is home to the national conversation. 1A brings on great guests and frames the best debate in ways that make you think, share and engage.","airtime":"MON-THU 11pm-12am","imageSrc":"https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/04/1a.jpg","officialWebsiteLink":"https://the1a.org/","meta":{"site":"news","source":"npr"},"link":"/radio/program/1a","subscribe":{"npr":"https://rpb3r.app.goo.gl/RBrW","apple":"https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?s=143441&mt=2&id=1188724250&at=11l79Y&ct=nprdirectory","tuneIn":"https://tunein.com/radio/1A-p947376/","rss":"https://feeds.npr.org/510316/podcast.xml"}},"all-things-considered":{"id":"all-things-considered","title":"All Things Considered","info":"Every weekday, \u003cem>All Things Considered\u003c/em> hosts Robert Siegel, Audie Cornish, Ari Shapiro, and Kelly McEvers present the program's trademark mix of news, interviews, commentaries, reviews, and offbeat features. Michel Martin hosts on the weekends.","airtime":"MON-FRI 1pm-2pm, 4:30pm-6:30pm\u003cbr />SAT-SUN 5pm-6pm","imageSrc":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/All-Things-Considered-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg","officialWebsiteLink":"https://www.npr.org/programs/all-things-considered/","meta":{"site":"news","source":"npr"},"link":"/radio/program/all-things-considered"},"american-suburb-podcast":{"id":"american-suburb-podcast","title":"American Suburb: The Podcast","tagline":"The flip side of gentrification, told through one town","info":"Gentrification is changing cities across America, forcing people from neighborhoods they have long called home. Call them the displaced. Now those priced out of the Bay Area are looking for a better life in an unlikely place. American Suburb follows this migration to one California town along the Delta, 45 miles from San Francisco. But is this once sleepy suburb ready for them?","imageSrc":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/American-Suburb-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg","officialWebsiteLink":"/news/series/american-suburb-podcast","meta":{"site":"news","source":"kqed","order":"13"},"link":"/news/series/american-suburb-podcast/","subscribe":{"npr":"https://rpb3r.app.goo.gl/RBrW","apple":"https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?mt=2&id=1287748328","tuneIn":"https://tunein.com/radio/American-Suburb-p1086805/","rss":"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/series/american-suburb-podcast/feed/podcast","google":"https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vS1FJTkMzMDExODgxNjA5"}},"baycurious":{"id":"baycurious","title":"Bay Curious","tagline":"Exploring the Bay Area, one question at a time","info":"KQED’s new podcast, Bay Curious, gets to the bottom of the mysteries — both profound and peculiar — that give the Bay Area its unique identity. And we’ll do it with your help! You ask the questions. You decide what Bay Curious investigates. 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You can also visit the MindShift website for episodes and supplemental blog posts or tweet us \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/MindShiftKQED\">@MindShiftKQED\u003c/a> or visit us at \u003ca href=\"/mindshift\">MindShift.KQED.org\u003c/a>","imageSrc":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Mindshift-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg","imageAlt":"KQED MindShift: How We Will Learn","officialWebsiteLink":"/mindshift/","meta":{"site":"news","source":"kqed","order":"2"},"link":"/podcasts/mindshift","subscribe":{"apple":"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/mindshift-podcast/id1078765985","google":"https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vS1FJTkM1NzY0NjAwNDI5","npr":"https://www.npr.org/podcasts/464615685/mind-shift-podcast","stitcher":"https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/kqed/stories-teachers-share","spotify":"https://open.spotify.com/show/0MxSpNYZKNprFLCl7eEtyx"}},"morning-edition":{"id":"morning-edition","title":"Morning Edition","info":"\u003cem>Morning Edition\u003c/em> takes listeners around the country and the world with multi-faceted stories and commentaries every weekday. 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On Our Watch brings listeners into the rooms where officers are questioned and witnesses are interrogated to find out who this system is really protecting. 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