Bill to Curb California Utilities’ Use of Customer Money Fails to Pass
California Legislators Consider Cracking Down on How Utilities Spend Customers' Money
California Regulators Propose Significant Changes to Electricity Bills
The Future of PG&E With CEO Patti Poppe
How California’s Electric Cars Could Feed the Grid and Power People’s Homes
‘We’re Gonna Have to Meet This Challenge Again’: Last Week’s Historic Heat Wave
PG&E Charged With Manslaughter in 2020 California Wildfire That Killed 4
What Lessons Can California Learn From Its Energy Crisis 20 Years Ago?
Help Us Investigate PG&E’s Power Lines
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Instead, they’re supposed to use money from private investors to pay for those things.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside postID=\"news_11983675,news_11981173,news_11859064\" label=\"Related Stories\"]Consumer groups say utilities are finding ways around those rules. They accuse them of using money from customers to fund trade groups that lobby legislators and for TV ads disguised as public service announcements, including some recent ads by Pacific Gas & Electric.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A bill in the state Legislature would have expanded the definitions of prohibited advertising and political influence to include regulators’ decisions on rate-setting and franchises for electrical and gas corporations. It would also allow regulators to fine utilities that break the rules.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>On Monday, the bill failed to pass a legislative committee for the second time in the face of intense opposition from utilities, including Pacific Gas & Electric.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We’ve seen too many examples of the blatant misuse of ratepayer funds across the state,” said Democratic state Sen. Dave Min, who authored the bill that failed to pass on Monday. “I know that consumers are outraged by this.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>PG&E opposed the bill because it said it would take away the power of state regulators to examine utility companies’ costs and decide whether it is “just or reasonable″ for customers to pay for them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Plus, PG&E lobbyist Brandon Ebeck said it’s appropriate for customers to pay for the company’s membership fees that go to various industry associations because they benefit customers. He noted that those groups coordinate emergency response and wildfire training. When the war in Ukraine started, the Edison Electric Institute — a national association representing investor-owned utilities — sought to find surplus equipment to be sent to Ukraine.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There’s a lot of benefits to customers,” Ebeck said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The bill was part of a larger backlash against California’s rising electricity cost. Power is expensive in California partly because of the work required to maintain and upgrade electrical equipment to reduce the risk of wildfires in a state with long, dry summers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As rates have continued to climb, utilities like Pacific Gas & Electric, Southern California Edison and San Diego Gas & Electric have faced increasing scrutiny from consumer groups over how they spend the money they collect from customers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Matt Vespa, senior attorney at the environmental advocacy group Earthjustice, said Monday’s vote was “incredibly disappointing.” He said the current rules for utilities “incentivizes them to see what they can get away with.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As an example, Min and consumer groups noted PG&E spent up to $6 million in TV ads to tout its plan to bury power lines to reduce wildfire risk, which some consumer groups opposed because it \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/pge-rates-california-wildfires-99be6963a57b1f4812a056be93cec50f\">increased customers’ bills\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The ads first aired in 2022 and featured CEO Patti Poppe in a company-branded hard hat, saying the company is “transforming your hometown utility from the ground up.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The utility recorded the expenses for those ads as coming from a customer-funded account dedicated to reducing wildfire risk, as first reported by the \u003ca href=\"https://www.sacbee.com/news/california/article287598875.html\">Sacramento Bee\u003c/a>. PG&E spokesperson Lynsey Paulo said the company has not yet asked regulators to review that expense. The California Public Utilities Commission will decide whether customer funds can pay for the ads.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Paulo noted state regulators allow utilities to use money from customers to pay for safety communications on television.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Our customers have told us they want to know how we are investing to improve safety and reliability,” Paulo said. “We also use digital and email communications, but some customers do not have internet or email access, so we use methods including television spots to communicate with all of our customers.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Some consumer groups say the ads have crossed the line.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Only at PG&E would (Poppe’s) attempts at brand rehabilitation be considered a ‘safety message,’” said Mark Toney, executive director of the Utility Reform Network. “This blatant misuse of ratepayer funds is exactly why we need SB 938 and its clear rules and required disclosures for advertising costs.”\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"A crackdown on how California utilities spend customers' money has failed to pass the state Legislature. Investor-owned utilities aren't allowed to use money from customers to pay for things like advertising and lobbying. ","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1713900574,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":21,"wordCount":756},"headData":{"title":"Bill to Curb California Utilities’ Use of Customer Money Fails to Pass | KQED","description":"A crackdown on how California utilities spend customers' money has failed to pass the state Legislature. Investor-owned utilities aren't allowed to use money from customers to pay for things like advertising and lobbying. ","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"Bill to Curb California Utilities’ Use of Customer Money Fails to Pass","datePublished":"2024-04-23T19:00:33.000Z","dateModified":"2024-04-23T19:29:34.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"Y","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"sticky":false,"nprByline":"Adam Beam\u003cbr>The Associated Press\u003c/br>","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","showOnAuthorArchivePages":"No","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11983800/bill-to-curb-california-utilities-use-of-customer-money-fails-to-pass","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>California lawmakers on Monday rejected a proposal aimed at cracking down on how some of the nation’s largest utilities spend customers’ money.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California’s investor-owned utilities can’t use money from customers to pay for things like advertising their brand or lobbying for legislation. Instead, they’re supposed to use money from private investors to pay for those things.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"postid":"news_11983675,news_11981173,news_11859064","label":"Related Stories "},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Consumer groups say utilities are finding ways around those rules. They accuse them of using money from customers to fund trade groups that lobby legislators and for TV ads disguised as public service announcements, including some recent ads by Pacific Gas & Electric.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A bill in the state Legislature would have expanded the definitions of prohibited advertising and political influence to include regulators’ decisions on rate-setting and franchises for electrical and gas corporations. It would also allow regulators to fine utilities that break the rules.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>On Monday, the bill failed to pass a legislative committee for the second time in the face of intense opposition from utilities, including Pacific Gas & Electric.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We’ve seen too many examples of the blatant misuse of ratepayer funds across the state,” said Democratic state Sen. Dave Min, who authored the bill that failed to pass on Monday. “I know that consumers are outraged by this.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>PG&E opposed the bill because it said it would take away the power of state regulators to examine utility companies’ costs and decide whether it is “just or reasonable″ for customers to pay for them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Plus, PG&E lobbyist Brandon Ebeck said it’s appropriate for customers to pay for the company’s membership fees that go to various industry associations because they benefit customers. He noted that those groups coordinate emergency response and wildfire training. When the war in Ukraine started, the Edison Electric Institute — a national association representing investor-owned utilities — sought to find surplus equipment to be sent to Ukraine.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There’s a lot of benefits to customers,” Ebeck said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The bill was part of a larger backlash against California’s rising electricity cost. Power is expensive in California partly because of the work required to maintain and upgrade electrical equipment to reduce the risk of wildfires in a state with long, dry summers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As rates have continued to climb, utilities like Pacific Gas & Electric, Southern California Edison and San Diego Gas & Electric have faced increasing scrutiny from consumer groups over how they spend the money they collect from customers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Matt Vespa, senior attorney at the environmental advocacy group Earthjustice, said Monday’s vote was “incredibly disappointing.” He said the current rules for utilities “incentivizes them to see what they can get away with.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As an example, Min and consumer groups noted PG&E spent up to $6 million in TV ads to tout its plan to bury power lines to reduce wildfire risk, which some consumer groups opposed because it \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/pge-rates-california-wildfires-99be6963a57b1f4812a056be93cec50f\">increased customers’ bills\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The ads first aired in 2022 and featured CEO Patti Poppe in a company-branded hard hat, saying the company is “transforming your hometown utility from the ground up.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The utility recorded the expenses for those ads as coming from a customer-funded account dedicated to reducing wildfire risk, as first reported by the \u003ca href=\"https://www.sacbee.com/news/california/article287598875.html\">Sacramento Bee\u003c/a>. PG&E spokesperson Lynsey Paulo said the company has not yet asked regulators to review that expense. The California Public Utilities Commission will decide whether customer funds can pay for the ads.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Paulo noted state regulators allow utilities to use money from customers to pay for safety communications on television.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Our customers have told us they want to know how we are investing to improve safety and reliability,” Paulo said. “We also use digital and email communications, but some customers do not have internet or email access, so we use methods including television spots to communicate with all of our customers.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Some consumer groups say the ads have crossed the line.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Only at PG&E would (Poppe’s) attempts at brand rehabilitation be considered a ‘safety message,’” said Mark Toney, executive director of the Utility Reform Network. “This blatant misuse of ratepayer funds is exactly why we need SB 938 and its clear rules and required disclosures for advertising costs.”\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11983800/bill-to-curb-california-utilities-use-of-customer-money-fails-to-pass","authors":["byline_news_11983800"],"categories":["news_8"],"tags":["news_21973","news_1092","news_33611"],"featImg":"news_11722572","label":"news"},"news_11983675":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11983675","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11983675","score":null,"sort":[1713819616000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"california-legislators-consider-cracking-down-on-how-utilities-spend-customers-money","title":"California Legislators Consider Cracking Down on How Utilities Spend Customers' Money","publishDate":1713819616,"format":"standard","headTitle":"California Legislators Consider Cracking Down on How Utilities Spend Customers’ Money | KQED","labelTerm":{"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp>A crackdown on how some of the nation’s largest utilities spend customers’ money faces a do-or-die vote Monday in the California Legislature.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Californians already pay some of the \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/pge-rates-california-wildfires-99be6963a57b1f4812a056be93cec50f\">highest electricity rates\u003c/a> in the country, in part because of the expensive work required to maintain and upgrade electrical equipment to reduce the risk of wildfires in a state with long, dry summers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As rates continue to climb, utilities like Pacific Gas & Electric, Southern California Edison and San Diego Gas & Electric have faced increasing scrutiny from consumer groups over how they spend the money they collect.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Utilities aren’t allowed to use money from customers to pay for things like advertising or lobbying. Instead, utilities must pay for those activities with money from private investors who have bought stock shares.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Consumer groups say utilities are finding ways around those rules. They accuse them of using money from customers to fund trade groups that lobby legislators and for TV ads disguised as public service announcements, including some recent ads by PG&E.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A legislative bill, SB 938, would expand the definitions of prohibited advertising and political influence to include things like regulators’ decisions on rate-setting and franchises for electrical and gas corporations. It would also allow regulators to fine utilities that break the rules.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s always fun to be able to give away other people’s money and use other people’s money to try to advance their own interests,” said state Sen. Dave Min, a Democrat who authored the bill. “But for a regulated industry like (investor-owned utilities), I would submit that that’s not good policy.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=202320240SB938\">The bill\u003c/a> faces fierce opposition from utilities and some labor unions that fear it would prohibit union members who work for utilities from lobbying.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside label=\"related coverage\" tag=\"utilities\"]The bill had a public hearing last week in a committee, but it failed to pass after multiple Democrats, who hold large majorities in both legislative chambers, did not vote. The committee is scheduled to hear the bill again Monday. If it fails a second time, it likely won’t pass this year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Min said he has accepted amendments to address lawmakers’ concerns, including allowing a grace period for utilities to correct errors and requiring that any money collected from fines be put into the state’s general fund. Still, he said it was “50-50” whether the bill would survive Monday’s vote.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>PG&E opposes the bill because it said it would take away the power of state regulators to examine utility companies’ costs and decide whether it is “just or reasonable” for customers to pay for them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Plus, PG&E lobbyist Brandon Ebeck said it’s appropriate for customers to pay for the company’s membership fees that go to various industry associations because they benefit customers. He noted that those groups coordinate emergency response and wildfire training. When the war in Ukraine started, the Edison Electric Institute — a national association representing investor-owned utilities — sought to find surplus equipment to be sent to Ukraine.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There’s a lot of benefits to customers,” Ebeck said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Consumer groups argue that the current rules for utilities “incentivizes them to see what they can get away with,” said Matt Vespa, an attorney with the advocacy group Earthjustice.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Those groups and Min point to as much as $6 million in TV ads PG&E paid to tout its plan to bury power lines to reduce wildfire risk, which some consumer groups opposed because it \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/pge-rates-california-wildfires-99be6963a57b1f4812a056be93cec50f\">increased customers’ bills\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The ads first aired in 2022 and feature CEO Patti Poppe in a company-branded hard hat who said the company is “transforming your hometown utility from the ground up.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The utility recorded the expenses for those ads as coming from a customer-funded account dedicated to reducing wildfire risk, as first reported by the \u003ca href=\"https://www.sacbee.com/news/california/article287598875.html\">\u003cem>Sacramento Bee\u003c/em>\u003c/a>. PG&E spokesperson Lynsey Paulo said the company has not yet asked regulators to review that expense. The California Public Utilities Commission will decide whether customer funds can pay for the ads.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Paulo noted state regulators allow utilities to use money from customers to pay for safety communications on television.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Our customers have told us they want to know how we are investing to improve safety and reliability,” Paulo said. “We also use digital and email communications, but some customers do not have internet or email access, so we use methods including television spots to communicate with all of our customers.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Some consumer groups said the ads have crossed the line.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Only at PG&E would [Poppe’s] attempts at brand rehabilitation be considered a ‘safety message,’” said Mark Toney, executive director of the Utility Reform Network. “This blatant misuse of ratepayer funds is exactly why we need SB 938 and its clear rules and required disclosures for advertising costs.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"A new state bill aims to step up enforcement of rules that prohibit investor-owned utilities from using customer money to pay for things like advertising and lobbying.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1713818626,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":23,"wordCount":862},"headData":{"title":"California Legislators Consider Cracking Down on How Utilities Spend Customers' Money | KQED","description":"A new state bill aims to step up enforcement of rules that prohibit investor-owned utilities from using customer money to pay for things like advertising and lobbying.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"California Legislators Consider Cracking Down on How Utilities Spend Customers' Money","datePublished":"2024-04-22T21:00:16.000Z","dateModified":"2024-04-22T20:43:46.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"Y","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"sticky":false,"nprByline":"Adam Beam\u003cbr>Associated Press","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","showOnAuthorArchivePages":"No","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11983675/california-legislators-consider-cracking-down-on-how-utilities-spend-customers-money","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>A crackdown on how some of the nation’s largest utilities spend customers’ money faces a do-or-die vote Monday in the California Legislature.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Californians already pay some of the \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/pge-rates-california-wildfires-99be6963a57b1f4812a056be93cec50f\">highest electricity rates\u003c/a> in the country, in part because of the expensive work required to maintain and upgrade electrical equipment to reduce the risk of wildfires in a state with long, dry summers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As rates continue to climb, utilities like Pacific Gas & Electric, Southern California Edison and San Diego Gas & Electric have faced increasing scrutiny from consumer groups over how they spend the money they collect.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Utilities aren’t allowed to use money from customers to pay for things like advertising or lobbying. Instead, utilities must pay for those activities with money from private investors who have bought stock shares.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Consumer groups say utilities are finding ways around those rules. They accuse them of using money from customers to fund trade groups that lobby legislators and for TV ads disguised as public service announcements, including some recent ads by PG&E.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A legislative bill, SB 938, would expand the definitions of prohibited advertising and political influence to include things like regulators’ decisions on rate-setting and franchises for electrical and gas corporations. It would also allow regulators to fine utilities that break the rules.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s always fun to be able to give away other people’s money and use other people’s money to try to advance their own interests,” said state Sen. Dave Min, a Democrat who authored the bill. “But for a regulated industry like (investor-owned utilities), I would submit that that’s not good policy.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=202320240SB938\">The bill\u003c/a> faces fierce opposition from utilities and some labor unions that fear it would prohibit union members who work for utilities from lobbying.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"label":"related coverage ","tag":"utilities"},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>The bill had a public hearing last week in a committee, but it failed to pass after multiple Democrats, who hold large majorities in both legislative chambers, did not vote. The committee is scheduled to hear the bill again Monday. If it fails a second time, it likely won’t pass this year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Min said he has accepted amendments to address lawmakers’ concerns, including allowing a grace period for utilities to correct errors and requiring that any money collected from fines be put into the state’s general fund. Still, he said it was “50-50” whether the bill would survive Monday’s vote.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>PG&E opposes the bill because it said it would take away the power of state regulators to examine utility companies’ costs and decide whether it is “just or reasonable” for customers to pay for them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Plus, PG&E lobbyist Brandon Ebeck said it’s appropriate for customers to pay for the company’s membership fees that go to various industry associations because they benefit customers. He noted that those groups coordinate emergency response and wildfire training. When the war in Ukraine started, the Edison Electric Institute — a national association representing investor-owned utilities — sought to find surplus equipment to be sent to Ukraine.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There’s a lot of benefits to customers,” Ebeck said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Consumer groups argue that the current rules for utilities “incentivizes them to see what they can get away with,” said Matt Vespa, an attorney with the advocacy group Earthjustice.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Those groups and Min point to as much as $6 million in TV ads PG&E paid to tout its plan to bury power lines to reduce wildfire risk, which some consumer groups opposed because it \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/pge-rates-california-wildfires-99be6963a57b1f4812a056be93cec50f\">increased customers’ bills\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The ads first aired in 2022 and feature CEO Patti Poppe in a company-branded hard hat who said the company is “transforming your hometown utility from the ground up.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The utility recorded the expenses for those ads as coming from a customer-funded account dedicated to reducing wildfire risk, as first reported by the \u003ca href=\"https://www.sacbee.com/news/california/article287598875.html\">\u003cem>Sacramento Bee\u003c/em>\u003c/a>. PG&E spokesperson Lynsey Paulo said the company has not yet asked regulators to review that expense. The California Public Utilities Commission will decide whether customer funds can pay for the ads.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Paulo noted state regulators allow utilities to use money from customers to pay for safety communications on television.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Our customers have told us they want to know how we are investing to improve safety and reliability,” Paulo said. “We also use digital and email communications, but some customers do not have internet or email access, so we use methods including television spots to communicate with all of our customers.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Some consumer groups said the ads have crossed the line.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Only at PG&E would [Poppe’s] attempts at brand rehabilitation be considered a ‘safety message,’” said Mark Toney, executive director of the Utility Reform Network. “This blatant misuse of ratepayer funds is exactly why we need SB 938 and its clear rules and required disclosures for advertising costs.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11983675/california-legislators-consider-cracking-down-on-how-utilities-spend-customers-money","authors":["byline_news_11983675"],"categories":["news_19906","news_8","news_356"],"tags":["news_1066","news_1092","news_140","news_23900"],"featImg":"news_11983694","label":"news"},"news_11981173":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11981173","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11981173","score":null,"sort":[1711666845000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"california-regulators-propose-significant-changes-to-electricity-bills","title":"California Regulators Propose Significant Changes to Electricity Bills","publishDate":1711666845,"format":"standard","headTitle":"California Regulators Propose Significant Changes to Electricity Bills | KQED","labelTerm":{"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp>State utility regulators have \u003ca href=\"https://www.cpuc.ca.gov/news-and-updates/all-news/cpuc-proposal-would-cut-the-price-of-residential-electricity-under-new-billing-structure-2024\">proposed reducing \u003c/a>the cost of residential electricity bills for lower-income Californians and those living in parts of the state most impacted by extreme weather — mainly heat. The changes would also incentivize electrifying personal cars and in-home appliances.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A big reason for the proposal is how California’s largest power companies currently calculate rates. The more power you use, the more money you pay — not just for electricity but also for things like maintaining the grid and reducing wildfire risk. When the temperature spikes, so do electricity bills, leaving some customers with monthly payments over $500.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>What is the proposed change? \u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>The\u003ca href=\"https://docs.cpuc.ca.gov/PublishedDocs/Efile/G000/M528/K422/528422138.PDF\"> proposal\u003c/a> applies to large investor-owned utilities like PG&E. It would divide monthly energy bills into two parts:\u003c/p>\n\u003col>\n\u003cli>A “flat rate” that covers infrastructure costs like wires and transformers. That rate would be $24.15 and less for income-qualifying customers in the\u003ca href=\"https://url.us.m.mimecastprotect.com/s/er4LCG69GouAjRPoUpENhI?domain=cpuc.ca.gov\"> California Alternate Rates for Energy\u003c/a> (CARE) (the rate would be $6) or\u003ca href=\"https://url.us.m.mimecastprotect.com/s/pitBCJ6PLruK0v2PiL12KH?domain=cpuc.ca.gov\"> Family Electric Rate Assistance Program\u003c/a> (FERA) programs (the rate would be $12).\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>A “usage rate,” which is how much you pay for a unit of electricity. This rate would be 5–7 cents per kilowatt hour lower than the current electricity rate.\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ol>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Whose bills would go down? \u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>The changes are designed to bring down the bills of lower-income Californians, especially those living inland where it is hotter and the need for air conditioning is higher.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>During peak hours, when electricity is in the most demand and the most expensive, rates for customers of the state’s big three utilities — Pacific Gas & Electric, Southern California Edison and San Diego Gas & Electric — would fall between 8% and 9.8%. That means the average customer in Fresno, where temperatures were at or above 100 F for\u003ca href=\"https://www.accuweather.com/en/us/fresno/93702/july-weather/327144?year=2023\"> 17 days last July\u003c/a>, would save about $33 during the summer months, according to the California Public Utilities Commission.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There would also be a reduction in bills for customers who electrify their homes or vehicles, regardless of income or location.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>People who own electric cars and charge them at home would save about $25 per month on average, while people who have fully electrified their homes — including replacing gas-powered stoves — would save about $19 per month. Other customers whose bills are not impacted as much by the weather would likely see an increase.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Whose bills would go up? \u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Some non-lower-income customers may see an increase in their bills, and people who have rooftop solar may also see an increase in their monthly bills.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Mohit Chhabra, who works on electricity pricing at the Natural Resources Defense Council, said the average non-low-income customer’s bills will either stay the same or go up by around $10 a month.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Wealthy solar customers are the most likely to pay more. In our estimate, they’re likely to pay between $10 and $20 more a month,” Chhabra said.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Why do we need this? \u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Proponents of the changes say customers with low income are paying more than their fair share of the costs of maintaining the electricity grid, and this will change that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California is one of the only states that doesn’t already have a fixed charge for its largest utilities, and the state Legislature ordered regulators in 2022 to implement one by July 1 of this year. Since then, power bills have only gotten more expensive. Regulators approved an average increase of \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/pge-rates-california-wildfires-99be6963a57b1f4812a056be93cec50f\">$32 per month\u003c/a> for Pacific Gas & Electric Company customers just last year. The average price per kilowatt hour of electricity for California’s big three utilities — Pacific Gas & Electric, Southern California Edison and San Diego Gas & Electric — is about 36 cents, compared to the national average of 17 cents.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The changes will shrink the price per unit of electricity for everyone and, therefore, encourage electrification, reducing fossil fuel emissions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Customers need to want to electrify,” Chhabra said from the NRDC. “Currently, when they electrify their homes, they wouldn’t necessarily reduce their household energy bill. With this change, they will start saving money.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The proposal will bring California investor-owned utilities in line with publicly-owned utilities and utilities in other states.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The proposal will be up for a vote on May 9. In the meantime, members of the public\u003ca href=\"https://apps.cpuc.ca.gov/apex/f?p=401:56::::RP,57,RIR:P5_PROCEEDING_SELECT:R2207005\"> can comment online\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Reactions for — and against\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>The prospect of a new charge that could raise some people’s rates has prompted backlash from some state and federal lawmakers. In the state Legislature, a group of Democrats led by Assemblymember Jacqui Irwin has introduced legislation that would cap the fixed charge at $10 for most people and $5 for people with low incomes. Irwin said the California Public Utilities Commission “is out of touch with consumers.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We need to prioritize driving down consumer’s overall bills, not redistributing the ever-increasing (investor-owned utilities) electric rates,” Irwin said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Predictable Power Coalition, which includes the big three utilities, called the fixed rate “vital” and said the proposal “is a step in the right direction.” Some of the state’s most well-known consumer advocates, including The Utility Reform Network and the California Public Advocates Office, support the proposal because they say it would make utility bills more affordable.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Others, including the solar industry, worry that if electricity rates are cheaper during peak hours, people won’t conserve as much energy. California has struggled at times to have enough electricity during these periods, especially during extreme heat waves, which caused some \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/business-health-environment-and-nature-california-coronavirus-pandemic-f3357dc4bf75ea982aaeebbe65622ad9\">rolling blackouts in 2020\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If approved, the new billing structure would go into effect in late 2025 or early 2026.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This story includes reporting by Adam Beam from The Associated Press.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"The California Public Utilities Commission proposes a fixed charge on a portion of power bills that would ensure lower-income consumers pay less, especially in times of extreme weather.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1711670077,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":24,"wordCount":992},"headData":{"title":"California Regulators Propose Significant Changes to Electricity Bills | KQED","description":"The California Public Utilities Commission proposes a fixed charge on a portion of power bills that would ensure lower-income consumers pay less, especially in times of extreme weather.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"California Regulators Propose Significant Changes to Electricity Bills","datePublished":"2024-03-28T23:00:45.000Z","dateModified":"2024-03-28T23:54:37.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"Y","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"sticky":false,"excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","showOnAuthorArchivePages":"No","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11981173/california-regulators-propose-significant-changes-to-electricity-bills","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>State utility regulators have \u003ca href=\"https://www.cpuc.ca.gov/news-and-updates/all-news/cpuc-proposal-would-cut-the-price-of-residential-electricity-under-new-billing-structure-2024\">proposed reducing \u003c/a>the cost of residential electricity bills for lower-income Californians and those living in parts of the state most impacted by extreme weather — mainly heat. The changes would also incentivize electrifying personal cars and in-home appliances.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A big reason for the proposal is how California’s largest power companies currently calculate rates. The more power you use, the more money you pay — not just for electricity but also for things like maintaining the grid and reducing wildfire risk. When the temperature spikes, so do electricity bills, leaving some customers with monthly payments over $500.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>What is the proposed change? \u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>The\u003ca href=\"https://docs.cpuc.ca.gov/PublishedDocs/Efile/G000/M528/K422/528422138.PDF\"> proposal\u003c/a> applies to large investor-owned utilities like PG&E. It would divide monthly energy bills into two parts:\u003c/p>\n\u003col>\n\u003cli>A “flat rate” that covers infrastructure costs like wires and transformers. That rate would be $24.15 and less for income-qualifying customers in the\u003ca href=\"https://url.us.m.mimecastprotect.com/s/er4LCG69GouAjRPoUpENhI?domain=cpuc.ca.gov\"> California Alternate Rates for Energy\u003c/a> (CARE) (the rate would be $6) or\u003ca href=\"https://url.us.m.mimecastprotect.com/s/pitBCJ6PLruK0v2PiL12KH?domain=cpuc.ca.gov\"> Family Electric Rate Assistance Program\u003c/a> (FERA) programs (the rate would be $12).\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>A “usage rate,” which is how much you pay for a unit of electricity. This rate would be 5–7 cents per kilowatt hour lower than the current electricity rate.\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ol>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Whose bills would go down? \u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>The changes are designed to bring down the bills of lower-income Californians, especially those living inland where it is hotter and the need for air conditioning is higher.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>During peak hours, when electricity is in the most demand and the most expensive, rates for customers of the state’s big three utilities — Pacific Gas & Electric, Southern California Edison and San Diego Gas & Electric — would fall between 8% and 9.8%. That means the average customer in Fresno, where temperatures were at or above 100 F for\u003ca href=\"https://www.accuweather.com/en/us/fresno/93702/july-weather/327144?year=2023\"> 17 days last July\u003c/a>, would save about $33 during the summer months, according to the California Public Utilities Commission.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There would also be a reduction in bills for customers who electrify their homes or vehicles, regardless of income or location.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>People who own electric cars and charge them at home would save about $25 per month on average, while people who have fully electrified their homes — including replacing gas-powered stoves — would save about $19 per month. Other customers whose bills are not impacted as much by the weather would likely see an increase.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Whose bills would go up? \u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Some non-lower-income customers may see an increase in their bills, and people who have rooftop solar may also see an increase in their monthly bills.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Mohit Chhabra, who works on electricity pricing at the Natural Resources Defense Council, said the average non-low-income customer’s bills will either stay the same or go up by around $10 a month.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Wealthy solar customers are the most likely to pay more. In our estimate, they’re likely to pay between $10 and $20 more a month,” Chhabra said.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Why do we need this? \u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Proponents of the changes say customers with low income are paying more than their fair share of the costs of maintaining the electricity grid, and this will change that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California is one of the only states that doesn’t already have a fixed charge for its largest utilities, and the state Legislature ordered regulators in 2022 to implement one by July 1 of this year. Since then, power bills have only gotten more expensive. Regulators approved an average increase of \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/pge-rates-california-wildfires-99be6963a57b1f4812a056be93cec50f\">$32 per month\u003c/a> for Pacific Gas & Electric Company customers just last year. The average price per kilowatt hour of electricity for California’s big three utilities — Pacific Gas & Electric, Southern California Edison and San Diego Gas & Electric — is about 36 cents, compared to the national average of 17 cents.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The changes will shrink the price per unit of electricity for everyone and, therefore, encourage electrification, reducing fossil fuel emissions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Customers need to want to electrify,” Chhabra said from the NRDC. “Currently, when they electrify their homes, they wouldn’t necessarily reduce their household energy bill. With this change, they will start saving money.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The proposal will bring California investor-owned utilities in line with publicly-owned utilities and utilities in other states.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The proposal will be up for a vote on May 9. In the meantime, members of the public\u003ca href=\"https://apps.cpuc.ca.gov/apex/f?p=401:56::::RP,57,RIR:P5_PROCEEDING_SELECT:R2207005\"> can comment online\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Reactions for — and against\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>The prospect of a new charge that could raise some people’s rates has prompted backlash from some state and federal lawmakers. In the state Legislature, a group of Democrats led by Assemblymember Jacqui Irwin has introduced legislation that would cap the fixed charge at $10 for most people and $5 for people with low incomes. Irwin said the California Public Utilities Commission “is out of touch with consumers.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We need to prioritize driving down consumer’s overall bills, not redistributing the ever-increasing (investor-owned utilities) electric rates,” Irwin said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Predictable Power Coalition, which includes the big three utilities, called the fixed rate “vital” and said the proposal “is a step in the right direction.” Some of the state’s most well-known consumer advocates, including The Utility Reform Network and the California Public Advocates Office, support the proposal because they say it would make utility bills more affordable.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Others, including the solar industry, worry that if electricity rates are cheaper during peak hours, people won’t conserve as much energy. California has struggled at times to have enough electricity during these periods, especially during extreme heat waves, which caused some \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/business-health-environment-and-nature-california-coronavirus-pandemic-f3357dc4bf75ea982aaeebbe65622ad9\">rolling blackouts in 2020\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If approved, the new billing structure would go into effect in late 2025 or early 2026.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This story includes reporting by Adam Beam from The Associated Press.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11981173/california-regulators-propose-significant-changes-to-electricity-bills","authors":["8648"],"categories":["news_8"],"tags":["news_18538","news_1066","news_1092","news_31571","news_23900"],"featImg":"news_11981177","label":"news"},"news_11969207":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11969207","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11969207","score":null,"sort":[1702002017000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"the-future-of-pge-with-ceo-patti-poppe","title":"The Future of PG&E With CEO Patti Poppe","publishDate":1702002017,"format":"audio","headTitle":"The Future of PG&E With CEO Patti Poppe | KQED","labelTerm":{},"content":"\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Utility companies are bracing for a future affected by climate change and evolving energy markets. Marisa and Scott are joined by Patti Poppe, the CEO of PG&E. Poppe has been trying to navigate these challenges and more since her tenure started in 2021, after the company emerged from bankruptcy for the second time in two decades. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hey there, everyone. From KQED Public Radio, this is Political Breakdown. I’m Marisa Lagos.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Scott Shafer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I’m Scott Shafer. Today on the Breakdown, our guest took the helm of Pacific Gas and Electric Company three years ago, just after the nation’s largest utility emerged from bankruptcy. And as it continues to face existential questions about its future at a time of climate change and evolving energy markets.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Patti Poppe is here. She’s now stearing PG&E through multiple challenges, including recent rate hikes, the continuing threat of wildfires and distrust of the company among many of its 16 million customers. We’re going to ask her about all that. And I got you to say existential in the lead, which was fun.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Scott Shafer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I know. I was I was afraid of mispronouncing that, but I think I got it right.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But before we bring Patti Poppe in, Scott, we do have to talk about some news this week, which is that Bakersfield Republican Congressman Kevin McCarthy is stepping down. He announced this in a bit of a surreal Wall Street Journal editorial today saying he will not finish his term. He’s going to leave at the end of the year. This comes two months, of course, after he was ousted as speaker by the far right faction in the House. And he says he did what, as I said, surreal. He says he did what he set out to accomplish. No matter the odds or personal cost. We did the right thing.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Scott Shafer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, of course. You know, there are a lot of things that, you know, history will judge. Like January 6th, for example, where, of course, there was the Trump inspired mob stormed the Capitol. And it’s interesting because, you know, McCarthy was never really trusted by the far right part of his party. Right.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Even though he really aligned himself with them more than the moderates, honestly.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Scott Shafer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, in many ways, certainly increasingly, as time went by, and, you know, that changed from the time he was in Sacramento. But, you know, he was too willing to talk to Democrats, to willing to keep the government open, not willing to sort of force a crisis when it came to government spending or government funding as well. So, you know, I think we all remember when he came to the House floor on January 6th and really went after Trump blaming him for what happened. And then like a few weeks later was down at Mar a Lago.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Kissing the ring, basically. I mean, it really was a remarkable especially when we heard later on some of the things he was saying behind the scenes. But, you know, I do think to your point, you know, McCarthy came up in Sacramento as a lawmaker here in California and was very well-liked across the aisle, was seen as a pretty centrist Republican, kind of a back slapper, always been fundraising. And yeah, but not somebody with like huge policy chops. And I think, you know, in some ways that kind of came back to bite him because there was so little trust of him among these wings of the party because he hadn’t ever been, you know, you may disagree with him or agree with him, but like someone like Mike Johnson, the current speaker, is clearly coming from a very specific point of view.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Scott Shafer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He is although, you know, he did some of the same things that McCarthy did and was deposed over like, you know, a government funding bill. And so I think, you know, it’s one thing to be a Matt Gaetz from Florida where you’re throwing bombs all the time. It’s another thing — and Nancy Pelosi talked with us about this many times — to be in charge of the caucus. You know, you have to get things done. You have to round up the votes. You have to count the votes.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And you have to make people believe that they can trust you even if they you don’t do what they ultimately want. And I think that that is lacking in general in this Republican caucus. But certainly he he had challenges.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Scott Shafer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He did, and I think even Democrats didn’t trust him. You know, at the end when the vote came to…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Especially Democrats. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Scott Shafer. \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well but I think there were some people, you know, Hakeem Jeffries, I think they considered maybe cutting some kind of a deal on a power sharing arrangement with him. But in the end, the caucus just didn’t trust him. They felt, you know, whether it was the going after the impeachment inquiry of Biden or Hunter Biden, all those things, you know, and just were backtracking on promises that they just didn’t want to keep him there.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Right. I mean, it is interesting. You know, the thing that he was very good at was fundraising. He raised hundreds of millions of dollars for Republicans. I mean, just his ousting, I think, sounded some alarms within, you know, the campaign wings of the Republican caucus. And it’s going to be fascinating to see A, what he does next. He says he is he still wants to be involved, whatever that means. So we’ll see if he’s still involved in Republican politics. But what it’ll do to some of these competitive House races here in California, you know, he really has help folks like David Valadao in the Central Valley. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Scott Shafer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Protected him from Trump…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah Young Kim down in Orange County keep their seats at times.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Scott Shafer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah and you know very different in so many ways from Nancy Pelosi both you know, the role they played as speaker. But Nancy Pelosi, also a prolific fundraiser for her party, she stepped away. Now she’s the speaker emerita and is continuing. She’s running for reelection. That’s not make everybody happy in that. But she’s yeah, but she is continuing to raise money for the party. Something that it’ll be I don’t think McCarthy is going to necessarily want to do I mean his leaving, you know, before the end of the term and you know, with the eviction of George Santos, get throwing him out of the house, I mean, there are majorities down to like 2 or 3 votes right now.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Right. And I think that’s something that’s going to be fascinating also as we see a potential special election happen in his district, which is a safe red seat, we should say. This is not going to change the makeup of the California delegation per se. It does open up a rare opportunity to run for Congress on the safe seat.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Scott Shafer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But it’s a huge loss of power for all of you and part of a trend as well with Feinstein’s death and Pelosi stepping.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, and we’re seeing long time, you know, veterans like Anna Eshoo in the South Bay decided to step down. So it is definitely a moment of transition here. But I mean, in some of those cases, these are people have served for decades, are in their seventies or beyond. He is not. And so this really, I think, is indicative of this moment, you know, in American politics. Quickly, before we break, any thoughts on who might run for that seat?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Scott Shafer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, you know, you have to look, first of all, at which Senate and assembly seats are nested within that district. Shannon Grove, state senator, she’s been down there for quite a while. Vince Fong is in the assembly. He may run as well. I’m sure they’re all looking at it, doing polling, checking their fundraising. And there is also, we should say already even before he stepped down, there is a kind of a MAGA Republican running who is getting some help from Roger Stone, who is kind of conciliatory to Donald Trump so that he will probably stay in the race and then we’ll see if, you know, some better known Republicans jump in as well. And probably a Democrat or two. But it won’t really matter. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, we’ll keep an eye on it. And that means more elections for folks in that district because there will probably be two next year. Okay. We are going to take a short break. When we come back, we will be joined by PG&E CEO Patti Poppe. You’re listening to Political Breakdown from KQED Public Radio. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Welcome back to Political Breakdown. I’m Marisa Lagos here with Scott Shafer. And we are thrilled to welcome PG&E CEO Patty Poppe. She took over the largest investor owned utility in California as it was emerging from bankruptcy and the second time in 20 years. Must have been quite a job interview. Patti Poppe, welcome to the breakdown.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patti Poppe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thank you for having me. Great to be with you.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, before we talk about your current role, I do want to go back. You grew up in Michigan. I think your mom was a school principal and teacher. Your dad was a nuclear engineer. And I mean, this is a very big job in an area that hadn’t does not has not historically always had women leaders. I’m curious, like, how your parents jobs and your upbringing informed your career path?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patti Poppe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, well, that’s a great question. You know, I always would I always say my dad taught me how to be an engineer and my mom taught me how to be a leader. She was a great school principal. We all know that schools are such important places in the lives of so many people. And she was a great principal and a great leader for her teachers. So I got to see her do that. And that was always inspiring to me.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Scott Shafer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, and as Marisa said, you were, probably found yourself being the only woman or one of the few women in rooms, whether it was in the corporate suites or even in some of the undergrad and business school and post-grad classes you took. You took some really male, male-oriented kinds of.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Industrial engineering? Is that your…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Scott Shafer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Industrial engineering, I mean, GM. What was that like? What did you learn from that? What difference did it make to have you in the room at those times?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patti Poppe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, since I had six sisters at home, I probably had plenty of women in my life telling me what to do. I was the baby, so I got lots of instruction, let’s just say. But I think growing up in automotive as an operator, as an engineer, you know, my dad really wanted me to be an engineer. He inspired and encouraged me to do so. None of my other sisters had been engineers, so I was sort of his last, last ditch effort to get one out of the bunch. And so I’m in this great pride and joy that way. But, you know, growing up in automotive, it was an interesting era at General Motors, there actually were more women than you might expect. Mary Barra’s the CEO at General Motors. She and I were contemporaries. She was a little bit ahead of me, but we had a lot of other really amazing women in operations. And so I grew up not actually thinking it was that strange. In fact, I felt like it was very well-received. And and maybe in some ways it was an advantage because people wanted to have more diverse leadership. And so maybe I got tested a little more early and pushed further and faster and, you know, was able to deliver when called. And so I feel good about what General Motors prepared me for professionally.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">How did you make the leap into energy? You went to DTE Energy and then CMS. I think they’re both also investor in utilities in Michigan?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patti Poppe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s right. That’s right. My well, my dad actually worked for Consumers Energy, CMS Energy. So he retired from CMS Energy. Had done built nuclear power plants around the country. And so I was familiar with energy, but I had been in automotive and really at General Motors, we had to move around a lot. And I have young children and that’s one of the advantages of working for an energy company or a utility. We don’t have to move. And so my husband and I made a, you know, a family decision to settle in Michigan with our family and and raise our daughters. And so we we really made a personal decision that ended up being a really exciting professional move in the long run. Had I known, I had no idea at the time.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Scott Shafer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So you ended up transitioning to PG&E. You were hired roughly 2020. And, you know, that was a time when the company was still, you know, in bankruptcy, emerging from bankruptcy, dealing with the aftermath of some devastating fires. What made you think that’s the job I want?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Right. Super easy.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patti Poppe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. Well, you know, I think I was compelled watching from afar, having been CEO at CMS Energy for at that time, five years. That was in my hometown. It was a very well-run company. We’d had our own transformation. And so I was able to observe and learn through that transformation at CMS and then to lead it myself. I did feel like I could help. I watched from afar what was happening here in California and specifically for PG&E, such an iconic company. After everything the company had been through and the the customers and our communities had been through. I felt like PG&E really needed an operating oriented leader. And I got a lot of calls. A lot of people called and asked me to consider taking the job. And the first several calls, I was like, No, no, no. You know, I’m I’m in a great place in my hometown. I lived next door to my sister and next door to my dad. There was no reason for me to move. But then, as I really considered the seriousness of what was happening here, I truly felt compelled to come and make a difference.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So it sounds like you wanted the challenge, because one of the things like prepping for this, I’m counting them up. I mean, before you arrive, the company had pled guilty or been found guilty of 90 felony counts and faced more. Like that feels like a bit of a red flag. I mean, what what was your thought in terms of like what you could bring to the table that might be different?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patti Poppe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. Well, I knew what it meant to run a very strong ethical and safe company, and I knew it was possible for PG&E too. And what I know is that the people who work for PG&E are not criminals. These are not bad people who set out to do harm. The people, the kind of people who are attracted to a utility and the kind of people who are attracted to PG&E are your neighbors, your friends, your family that set out to have a career at a company where they know they can make a difference in their hometown. And I wanted those people to feel valued and respected again.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Can I push back though? I mean, yes, the line folks, I think, are all members of our community. But I mean, this is a company we were both there on the scene when San Bruno blew up. Right. This natural gas explosion. And that was just the first of many investigations that found shoddy record keeping, lying to regulators, covering up things in order to maximize profits. Like can you say that everybody really had the community’s best interest in line historically?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patti Poppe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. So maybe I’m I’m talking generally there’s always the risk of bad apples for sure. And I guess maybe what I’m saying is that I knew that a company like this could be run well and that could be trustworthy. And that with the right kind of leadership and the right kind of focus on what is happening on the ground every day, not distracted by, you know, what’s new and interesting in the globe, but really focused on what’s happening here today. This company could be really important for the clean energy transition, for the ambitions of the state and the ambitions of the globe to thwart the effects of climate change. This company is essential to California’s ambition and the world’s forecast.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I mean we have no choice. We have to pay you guys no matter what as people who live in this region.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Scott Shafer:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> You said a moment ago that you thought that PG&E could be an ethical ethically run company, suggests that there were things that happened before you got there that weren’t so ethical. What what were you thinking?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patti Poppe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, you know, I don’t I wasn’t here. And so it’s very hard for me to. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Scott Shafer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well you must have looked at that pattern, right, before you took the job.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patti Poppe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I mean, I saw the results of a lot of things that contributed to the outcomes that were so devastating to so many. And I knew that that did not have to be our future and that did not have to be the reality for the citizens of California who are served by PG&E, and that we could be a force for good. And so that that is really what I have been relentlessly focused on since the day I got here. My focus is on making sure that we are trustworthy, that we are honest and ethical and safe, and that we are doing what is necessary every single day to make it safer.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Can I ask about the very structure of investor owned utilities? As somebody who did not come from a business or energy world? As I have covered and I’ve covered PG&E and a lot of these tragedies for the last 20 years. Why should a public utility be publicly traded? Like, why should something that we all rely on be subject to the whims of Wall Street, the desire to, you know, make shareholders…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Scott Shafer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Quarterly earnings reports?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. And isn’t that in itself a conflict?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patti Poppe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, that is a great question. And I will tell you, when I left automotive and went to the energy industry and I was I was running power plants, I had the same thought. I thought, wowwee why is it where we need to make a profit here? Shouldn’t we be doing, like, our public good? And then the more I learned and the more I understood, particularly the business model, where we have to attract huge sums of capital to invest in the infrastructure because customers don’t pay for that every they don’t pay for it real time. Customers make a mortgage payment, if you will, on all of the assets. But we have to get the money from the capital markets. And so what I learned is that investor owned utilities actually do have to compete. We have to compete for capital. And when we compete for capital, we are benchmarked like crazy. Wall Street actually is a very important leg of the stool to make sure that we do good work. And when we don’t do good work, Wall Street exits. And so the fact that we have to attract capital actually helps create some real tension around our performance relative to our peers. And I can tell you, they rack and stack us and PG&E was at the bottom of the list. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When you say performance though, does that mean financial performance or…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patti Poppe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think you might be surprised. Our investors recognize that there’s a virtuous cycle. It starts with serving customers. When you serve customers well and you keep the system safe, then regulators are more apt to be able to approve the things that you need to invest in that that’s when the investor gives their return. But they know if you lose trust with your regulator, you lose trust with your customers. You’re not going to get easy yeses and follow through and support for your ambitions.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Scott Shafer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, the company, of course, went into bankruptcy, which is a way of restructuring debt. And, you know, a lot of people see that as a way of escaping responsibility with rate payers. In fact, many in Wall Street on Wall Street made kind of a killing. Some of the hedge funds and others, you know, how do you respond to that criticism? You know, that the only real winner of all that was was the company and the shareholders? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And the company did come out very similar. Right? I mean, it’s structured the same at least.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patti Poppe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, it is structured the same. And the state did have an option. I mean, the state had a choice to split up PG&E or, or municipalize PG&E at that moment. But I think when they looked at all the calculus, the idea of breaking up the company actually was not in the best interest of the people that we serve. And I will say that the company was not absolved of the of the debts in many ways. We’re still at a sub-investment grade. We still have to work very hard to attract capital from the capital markets. So there’s no doubt. And a lot of investors lost it all. And I want to just clarify one thing. When we talk about shareholders, it’s kind of interesting to me because a shareholder at a utility, I want to tell you who we’re talking about. We are not talking about the hedge funds. We’re not talking about the big fat cats on Wall Street. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well we were for a small period. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patti Poppe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When we were in bankruptcy because they know how to come in and make their move. But a good utility, a utility like PG&E, our shareholders are moms and pops. Heck, you guys, probably our shareholders, you might not know it, Right. But in your retirement funds, in your 401Ks, in the firefighters funds, in the police funds, in the teachers, they’re invested in utilities and they are invested in PG&E. And so shareholders at PG&E, are moms and pops and I want to keep my promise to them too. They’ve entrusted their life savings to a mutual fund or something and asking for a little return to come back. That’s what PG&E delivers. When we deliver profits, we deliver profits for those moms and pops who are funding the infrastructure that keeps people safe in California.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you’re just joining us, you’re listening to a Political Breakdown from KQED Public Radio. I’m Marisa Lagos. Here is Scott Shafer. Our guest today, PG&E CEO Patti Poppe. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I want to ask about corporate culture. We’ve been told that your motto is “leading with love.” And. We mentioned earlier, you know, these decimating fires and natural gas explosion in San Bruno, felony charges, bankruptcy. Like what was the morale like when you got there and how do you change that and potentially the culture of a company if that’s needed?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patti Poppe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, culture change at PG&E is the number one priority because it’s through our people that we deliver what we do. And there is no doubt that people had were shaken about their role in the past, their role in the future. How do they make it right? It’s a big entity. What is PG&E? And “leading with love” is a fundamental tenet that I felt needed to interrupt business status quo. To come in and say, Hello, I’m your new CEO and I lead with love. I got a lot of, like, reaction…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Like oh yeah, she’s from the Midwest. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patti Poppe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, she’s from Michigan. Yeah no, the Midwest for sure. And they they, you know, in fact, I had people say, you know what? You can’t say that you’re losing credibility. I said, Oh my friends get used to it because I think love is essential ingredient. You know, you look at professional athletes, for example, I’m a huge Golden State Warriors fan and have been for a long time, long before I moved here. Maybe that’s why I migrated.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Scott Shafer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Draymond is from Michigan. Michigan State.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patti Poppe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, that’s true. But you know, the athletes very the and the winning teams, of course, they always talk about how they love their teammates. They love their coach, they love the players. Why is that full expression of joy of the game constrained to only professional athletes? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I don’t know, we love each other. We like to talk about that at KQED.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patti Poppe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s nice!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Scott Shafer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> You know, but in addition to the joy or maybe, you know, it adds to the joy, are the salaries and the bonuses that a lot of the executives get. It’s a lot of money. I think you’re you make 51 million, I think, per year.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patti Poppe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No, no, no, no. That was that was a one time make hole. I had already earned that money at my previous company. And the only way I wasn’t going to leave that on the table to take the job, so they paid me what I had made.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In 2021, yeah.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Scott Shafer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But there was also on the table, I think, $188 million in raises and bonuses for executives at a time when, you know, so many terrible things were happening. And I think a lot of people on the outside look and say, where is the accountability? Why do people working for companies that are either, you know, financially not doing well or doing bad things, you know, in out in the world as with the wildfires and so on? Why are why are people getting rewarded?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patti Poppe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, I will say this. To attract talent, there are market rates for leadership. And people can work a lot of places. When I joined PG&E, the entire executive team was vacant, so there was no one there making money off what had happened. They had all been fired or had quit. I had to hire an entirely new team. I searched the entire world and the country for the best and brightest leaders, and I have to pay them to come. And they left good jobs. They did not need to come and they did. And so there’s there’s a market rate for talent, just like there’s a market rate for athletes, just like there’s a market rate for great radio broadcasters.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Scott Shafer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s not the same as athletes, let me tell you that.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patti Poppe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Nor is mine. But, you know, I think that that this idea that that to invest in leadership is essential to turning the company around. And so to invest in leadership, there darn better be a return on investment for customers and for our coworkers to have the right leaders in place.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, I want to talk about customers. We just saw approval of PG&E rates to go up for everyone in January. The average is going to be about $30 a month, which adds up over the course of a year to hundreds of dollars. Why is this happening? And especially given everything we’ve talked about, you know, you haven’t been CEO forever, but the customers have been paying for, you know, for a long time. And there’s been a lot in the past of evidence of not necessarily investing that money wisely or doing all the things that were promised under previous rates. So what’s the case to to to and you already made it to the regulators, but to the rate payers that this is justified?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patti Poppe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. Well, first of all, I when I first got here, I heard a lot of people say to me, oh my gosh, PG&E chose profits over safety. You didn’t invest in the infrastructure. Well, I will tell you, the leadership team at the helm of PG&E is very focused on delivering the safe infrastructure that will stand the test of time. That does cost something. The the good news is that rate increase that we requested and it’s a four year rate increase. We hadn’t had one in a couple of years. We did put in for this rate increase. There is some catch up for investments we’ve made in hardening the system and making the system safe to wildfire. We’ve had significant improvement in that area, which I’ll talk about. But the idea that over that four years, 2023, 2024, 2025 and 2026, the average the compound average rate increase for each of those four years is going to be around 3%. It just so happens the first year is the biggest bump and then actually it will come down next year and come down again the next year. There’s some catch up between 23 and 2024 that is embedded in that increase that will get spread back out over time.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Scott Shafer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And that is largely to underground a lot of the wires?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patti Poppe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That the undergrounding is a small piece. It’s a lot 85% of it is safety and infrastructure, though, investments all over the system. And the undergrounding was a small piece of that increase that the regulators really wanted to see us do more, could we do more and didn’t want to write a blank check and yes, tell us to go collect those dollars before we proved we could do it. I’m happy to report that this year we will have underground 350 miles of line that we have never done that before, almost double what we’ve ever done before.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And for years we heard that was way too expensive. And so is that is the technology changed? Is it just we’re at a point where that just needs to happen?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patti Poppe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Two things. One, the comparison to building overhead conductor, which has been the standard to what we’re doing today, takes into account all of the vegetation management that we’re doing today that we were not doing before. PG&E spends 1.5 to 1.8 billion dollars a year taking down trees. That’s a problem. California, we need to save the trees and we need to instead of investing over a billion dollars a year, invest that same amount in a capital investment, you actually can invest in that undergrounding for less. It is lower cost than what we are doing today or before. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So were they just wrong before? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patti Poppe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Before we weren’t doing as much vegetation management, so it wasn’t as much of a trade. But today we have to or we’re\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Scott Shafer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And then the executives say they were doing it and a lot of it wasn’t getting done.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patti Poppe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I, I can’t actually I don’t know that. I don’t know that to be true.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Scott Shafer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Another question, though, how much of this the problem with wildfires and you know lines trees falling lines getting you know sparking and so on, how much of that can be resolved, do you think, from undergrounding versus new technology or hardening the system, adding resiliency?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patti Poppe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It is all of the above. And I will say on undergrounding and we talk about our 10,000 mile plan and I sometimes wish I had called it the 9,442 mile plan because they’re very specific miles. These aren’t it isn’t an arbitrary 10,000. These are very specific high risk miles in the places where the trees are coming in contact with the lines and trees that look healthy on the outside that have some issue in the in the routes. We can now protect customers with those specific miles being underground.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That is PG&E CEO Patti Poppe. Thank you for coming in. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Scott Shafer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thanks a lot. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Wish we had more time.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patti Poppe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, I do, too. I’ll come back any time.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That is going to do it for this edition of Political Breakdown. We’re a production of KQED Public Radio.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Scott Shafer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Our engineer today is Christopher Beale. Our producer is Izzy Bloom. I’m Scott Shafer. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I’m Marisa Lagos. We’ll see you next time. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":null,"status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1702085191,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":95,"wordCount":5978},"headData":{"title":"The Future of PG&E With CEO Patti Poppe | KQED","description":"Utility companies are bracing for a future affected by climate change and evolving energy markets. Marisa and Scott are joined by Patti Poppe, the CEO of PG&E. Poppe has been trying to navigate these challenges and more since her tenure started in 2021, after the company emerged from bankruptcy for the second time in two decades. Episode Transcript This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors. Marisa Lagos: Hey there, everyone. From KQED Public Radio, this is Political Breakdown. I'm Marisa Lagos. Scott Shafer: And I'm Scott Shafer. Today on the Breakdown, our","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"The Future of PG&E With CEO Patti Poppe","datePublished":"2023-12-08T02:20:17.000Z","dateModified":"2023-12-09T01:26:31.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"Y","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"source":"Political Breakdown","audioUrl":"https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G6C7C3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC2159195949.mp3?updated=1701921053","sticky":false,"excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11969207/the-future-of-pge-with-ceo-patti-poppe","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Utility companies are bracing for a future affected by climate change and evolving energy markets. Marisa and Scott are joined by Patti Poppe, the CEO of PG&E. Poppe has been trying to navigate these challenges and more since her tenure started in 2021, after the company emerged from bankruptcy for the second time in two decades. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hey there, everyone. From KQED Public Radio, this is Political Breakdown. I’m Marisa Lagos.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Scott Shafer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I’m Scott Shafer. Today on the Breakdown, our guest took the helm of Pacific Gas and Electric Company three years ago, just after the nation’s largest utility emerged from bankruptcy. And as it continues to face existential questions about its future at a time of climate change and evolving energy markets.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Patti Poppe is here. She’s now stearing PG&E through multiple challenges, including recent rate hikes, the continuing threat of wildfires and distrust of the company among many of its 16 million customers. We’re going to ask her about all that. And I got you to say existential in the lead, which was fun.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Scott Shafer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I know. I was I was afraid of mispronouncing that, but I think I got it right.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But before we bring Patti Poppe in, Scott, we do have to talk about some news this week, which is that Bakersfield Republican Congressman Kevin McCarthy is stepping down. He announced this in a bit of a surreal Wall Street Journal editorial today saying he will not finish his term. He’s going to leave at the end of the year. This comes two months, of course, after he was ousted as speaker by the far right faction in the House. And he says he did what, as I said, surreal. He says he did what he set out to accomplish. No matter the odds or personal cost. We did the right thing.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Scott Shafer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, of course. You know, there are a lot of things that, you know, history will judge. Like January 6th, for example, where, of course, there was the Trump inspired mob stormed the Capitol. And it’s interesting because, you know, McCarthy was never really trusted by the far right part of his party. Right.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Even though he really aligned himself with them more than the moderates, honestly.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Scott Shafer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, in many ways, certainly increasingly, as time went by, and, you know, that changed from the time he was in Sacramento. But, you know, he was too willing to talk to Democrats, to willing to keep the government open, not willing to sort of force a crisis when it came to government spending or government funding as well. So, you know, I think we all remember when he came to the House floor on January 6th and really went after Trump blaming him for what happened. And then like a few weeks later was down at Mar a Lago.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Kissing the ring, basically. I mean, it really was a remarkable especially when we heard later on some of the things he was saying behind the scenes. But, you know, I do think to your point, you know, McCarthy came up in Sacramento as a lawmaker here in California and was very well-liked across the aisle, was seen as a pretty centrist Republican, kind of a back slapper, always been fundraising. And yeah, but not somebody with like huge policy chops. And I think, you know, in some ways that kind of came back to bite him because there was so little trust of him among these wings of the party because he hadn’t ever been, you know, you may disagree with him or agree with him, but like someone like Mike Johnson, the current speaker, is clearly coming from a very specific point of view.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Scott Shafer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He is although, you know, he did some of the same things that McCarthy did and was deposed over like, you know, a government funding bill. And so I think, you know, it’s one thing to be a Matt Gaetz from Florida where you’re throwing bombs all the time. It’s another thing — and Nancy Pelosi talked with us about this many times — to be in charge of the caucus. You know, you have to get things done. You have to round up the votes. You have to count the votes.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And you have to make people believe that they can trust you even if they you don’t do what they ultimately want. And I think that that is lacking in general in this Republican caucus. But certainly he he had challenges.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Scott Shafer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He did, and I think even Democrats didn’t trust him. You know, at the end when the vote came to…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Especially Democrats. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Scott Shafer. \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well but I think there were some people, you know, Hakeem Jeffries, I think they considered maybe cutting some kind of a deal on a power sharing arrangement with him. But in the end, the caucus just didn’t trust him. They felt, you know, whether it was the going after the impeachment inquiry of Biden or Hunter Biden, all those things, you know, and just were backtracking on promises that they just didn’t want to keep him there.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Right. I mean, it is interesting. You know, the thing that he was very good at was fundraising. He raised hundreds of millions of dollars for Republicans. I mean, just his ousting, I think, sounded some alarms within, you know, the campaign wings of the Republican caucus. And it’s going to be fascinating to see A, what he does next. He says he is he still wants to be involved, whatever that means. So we’ll see if he’s still involved in Republican politics. But what it’ll do to some of these competitive House races here in California, you know, he really has help folks like David Valadao in the Central Valley. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Scott Shafer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Protected him from Trump…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah Young Kim down in Orange County keep their seats at times.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Scott Shafer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah and you know very different in so many ways from Nancy Pelosi both you know, the role they played as speaker. But Nancy Pelosi, also a prolific fundraiser for her party, she stepped away. Now she’s the speaker emerita and is continuing. She’s running for reelection. That’s not make everybody happy in that. But she’s yeah, but she is continuing to raise money for the party. Something that it’ll be I don’t think McCarthy is going to necessarily want to do I mean his leaving, you know, before the end of the term and you know, with the eviction of George Santos, get throwing him out of the house, I mean, there are majorities down to like 2 or 3 votes right now.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Right. And I think that’s something that’s going to be fascinating also as we see a potential special election happen in his district, which is a safe red seat, we should say. This is not going to change the makeup of the California delegation per se. It does open up a rare opportunity to run for Congress on the safe seat.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Scott Shafer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But it’s a huge loss of power for all of you and part of a trend as well with Feinstein’s death and Pelosi stepping.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, and we’re seeing long time, you know, veterans like Anna Eshoo in the South Bay decided to step down. So it is definitely a moment of transition here. But I mean, in some of those cases, these are people have served for decades, are in their seventies or beyond. He is not. And so this really, I think, is indicative of this moment, you know, in American politics. Quickly, before we break, any thoughts on who might run for that seat?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Scott Shafer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, you know, you have to look, first of all, at which Senate and assembly seats are nested within that district. Shannon Grove, state senator, she’s been down there for quite a while. Vince Fong is in the assembly. He may run as well. I’m sure they’re all looking at it, doing polling, checking their fundraising. And there is also, we should say already even before he stepped down, there is a kind of a MAGA Republican running who is getting some help from Roger Stone, who is kind of conciliatory to Donald Trump so that he will probably stay in the race and then we’ll see if, you know, some better known Republicans jump in as well. And probably a Democrat or two. But it won’t really matter. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, we’ll keep an eye on it. And that means more elections for folks in that district because there will probably be two next year. Okay. We are going to take a short break. When we come back, we will be joined by PG&E CEO Patti Poppe. You’re listening to Political Breakdown from KQED Public Radio. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Welcome back to Political Breakdown. I’m Marisa Lagos here with Scott Shafer. And we are thrilled to welcome PG&E CEO Patty Poppe. She took over the largest investor owned utility in California as it was emerging from bankruptcy and the second time in 20 years. Must have been quite a job interview. Patti Poppe, welcome to the breakdown.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patti Poppe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thank you for having me. Great to be with you.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, before we talk about your current role, I do want to go back. You grew up in Michigan. I think your mom was a school principal and teacher. Your dad was a nuclear engineer. And I mean, this is a very big job in an area that hadn’t does not has not historically always had women leaders. I’m curious, like, how your parents jobs and your upbringing informed your career path?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patti Poppe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, well, that’s a great question. You know, I always would I always say my dad taught me how to be an engineer and my mom taught me how to be a leader. She was a great school principal. We all know that schools are such important places in the lives of so many people. And she was a great principal and a great leader for her teachers. So I got to see her do that. And that was always inspiring to me.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Scott Shafer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, and as Marisa said, you were, probably found yourself being the only woman or one of the few women in rooms, whether it was in the corporate suites or even in some of the undergrad and business school and post-grad classes you took. You took some really male, male-oriented kinds of.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Industrial engineering? Is that your…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Scott Shafer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Industrial engineering, I mean, GM. What was that like? What did you learn from that? What difference did it make to have you in the room at those times?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patti Poppe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, since I had six sisters at home, I probably had plenty of women in my life telling me what to do. I was the baby, so I got lots of instruction, let’s just say. But I think growing up in automotive as an operator, as an engineer, you know, my dad really wanted me to be an engineer. He inspired and encouraged me to do so. None of my other sisters had been engineers, so I was sort of his last, last ditch effort to get one out of the bunch. And so I’m in this great pride and joy that way. But, you know, growing up in automotive, it was an interesting era at General Motors, there actually were more women than you might expect. Mary Barra’s the CEO at General Motors. She and I were contemporaries. She was a little bit ahead of me, but we had a lot of other really amazing women in operations. And so I grew up not actually thinking it was that strange. In fact, I felt like it was very well-received. And and maybe in some ways it was an advantage because people wanted to have more diverse leadership. And so maybe I got tested a little more early and pushed further and faster and, you know, was able to deliver when called. And so I feel good about what General Motors prepared me for professionally.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">How did you make the leap into energy? You went to DTE Energy and then CMS. I think they’re both also investor in utilities in Michigan?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patti Poppe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s right. That’s right. My well, my dad actually worked for Consumers Energy, CMS Energy. So he retired from CMS Energy. Had done built nuclear power plants around the country. And so I was familiar with energy, but I had been in automotive and really at General Motors, we had to move around a lot. And I have young children and that’s one of the advantages of working for an energy company or a utility. We don’t have to move. And so my husband and I made a, you know, a family decision to settle in Michigan with our family and and raise our daughters. And so we we really made a personal decision that ended up being a really exciting professional move in the long run. Had I known, I had no idea at the time.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Scott Shafer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So you ended up transitioning to PG&E. You were hired roughly 2020. And, you know, that was a time when the company was still, you know, in bankruptcy, emerging from bankruptcy, dealing with the aftermath of some devastating fires. What made you think that’s the job I want?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Right. Super easy.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patti Poppe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. Well, you know, I think I was compelled watching from afar, having been CEO at CMS Energy for at that time, five years. That was in my hometown. It was a very well-run company. We’d had our own transformation. And so I was able to observe and learn through that transformation at CMS and then to lead it myself. I did feel like I could help. I watched from afar what was happening here in California and specifically for PG&E, such an iconic company. After everything the company had been through and the the customers and our communities had been through. I felt like PG&E really needed an operating oriented leader. And I got a lot of calls. A lot of people called and asked me to consider taking the job. And the first several calls, I was like, No, no, no. You know, I’m I’m in a great place in my hometown. I lived next door to my sister and next door to my dad. There was no reason for me to move. But then, as I really considered the seriousness of what was happening here, I truly felt compelled to come and make a difference.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So it sounds like you wanted the challenge, because one of the things like prepping for this, I’m counting them up. I mean, before you arrive, the company had pled guilty or been found guilty of 90 felony counts and faced more. Like that feels like a bit of a red flag. I mean, what what was your thought in terms of like what you could bring to the table that might be different?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patti Poppe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. Well, I knew what it meant to run a very strong ethical and safe company, and I knew it was possible for PG&E too. And what I know is that the people who work for PG&E are not criminals. These are not bad people who set out to do harm. The people, the kind of people who are attracted to a utility and the kind of people who are attracted to PG&E are your neighbors, your friends, your family that set out to have a career at a company where they know they can make a difference in their hometown. And I wanted those people to feel valued and respected again.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Can I push back though? I mean, yes, the line folks, I think, are all members of our community. But I mean, this is a company we were both there on the scene when San Bruno blew up. Right. This natural gas explosion. And that was just the first of many investigations that found shoddy record keeping, lying to regulators, covering up things in order to maximize profits. Like can you say that everybody really had the community’s best interest in line historically?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patti Poppe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. So maybe I’m I’m talking generally there’s always the risk of bad apples for sure. And I guess maybe what I’m saying is that I knew that a company like this could be run well and that could be trustworthy. And that with the right kind of leadership and the right kind of focus on what is happening on the ground every day, not distracted by, you know, what’s new and interesting in the globe, but really focused on what’s happening here today. This company could be really important for the clean energy transition, for the ambitions of the state and the ambitions of the globe to thwart the effects of climate change. This company is essential to California’s ambition and the world’s forecast.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I mean we have no choice. We have to pay you guys no matter what as people who live in this region.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Scott Shafer:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> You said a moment ago that you thought that PG&E could be an ethical ethically run company, suggests that there were things that happened before you got there that weren’t so ethical. What what were you thinking?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patti Poppe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, you know, I don’t I wasn’t here. And so it’s very hard for me to. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Scott Shafer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well you must have looked at that pattern, right, before you took the job.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patti Poppe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I mean, I saw the results of a lot of things that contributed to the outcomes that were so devastating to so many. And I knew that that did not have to be our future and that did not have to be the reality for the citizens of California who are served by PG&E, and that we could be a force for good. And so that that is really what I have been relentlessly focused on since the day I got here. My focus is on making sure that we are trustworthy, that we are honest and ethical and safe, and that we are doing what is necessary every single day to make it safer.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Can I ask about the very structure of investor owned utilities? As somebody who did not come from a business or energy world? As I have covered and I’ve covered PG&E and a lot of these tragedies for the last 20 years. Why should a public utility be publicly traded? Like, why should something that we all rely on be subject to the whims of Wall Street, the desire to, you know, make shareholders…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Scott Shafer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Quarterly earnings reports?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. And isn’t that in itself a conflict?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patti Poppe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, that is a great question. And I will tell you, when I left automotive and went to the energy industry and I was I was running power plants, I had the same thought. I thought, wowwee why is it where we need to make a profit here? Shouldn’t we be doing, like, our public good? And then the more I learned and the more I understood, particularly the business model, where we have to attract huge sums of capital to invest in the infrastructure because customers don’t pay for that every they don’t pay for it real time. Customers make a mortgage payment, if you will, on all of the assets. But we have to get the money from the capital markets. And so what I learned is that investor owned utilities actually do have to compete. We have to compete for capital. And when we compete for capital, we are benchmarked like crazy. Wall Street actually is a very important leg of the stool to make sure that we do good work. And when we don’t do good work, Wall Street exits. And so the fact that we have to attract capital actually helps create some real tension around our performance relative to our peers. And I can tell you, they rack and stack us and PG&E was at the bottom of the list. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When you say performance though, does that mean financial performance or…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patti Poppe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think you might be surprised. Our investors recognize that there’s a virtuous cycle. It starts with serving customers. When you serve customers well and you keep the system safe, then regulators are more apt to be able to approve the things that you need to invest in that that’s when the investor gives their return. But they know if you lose trust with your regulator, you lose trust with your customers. You’re not going to get easy yeses and follow through and support for your ambitions.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Scott Shafer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, the company, of course, went into bankruptcy, which is a way of restructuring debt. And, you know, a lot of people see that as a way of escaping responsibility with rate payers. In fact, many in Wall Street on Wall Street made kind of a killing. Some of the hedge funds and others, you know, how do you respond to that criticism? You know, that the only real winner of all that was was the company and the shareholders? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And the company did come out very similar. Right? I mean, it’s structured the same at least.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patti Poppe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, it is structured the same. And the state did have an option. I mean, the state had a choice to split up PG&E or, or municipalize PG&E at that moment. But I think when they looked at all the calculus, the idea of breaking up the company actually was not in the best interest of the people that we serve. And I will say that the company was not absolved of the of the debts in many ways. We’re still at a sub-investment grade. We still have to work very hard to attract capital from the capital markets. So there’s no doubt. And a lot of investors lost it all. And I want to just clarify one thing. When we talk about shareholders, it’s kind of interesting to me because a shareholder at a utility, I want to tell you who we’re talking about. We are not talking about the hedge funds. We’re not talking about the big fat cats on Wall Street. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well we were for a small period. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patti Poppe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When we were in bankruptcy because they know how to come in and make their move. But a good utility, a utility like PG&E, our shareholders are moms and pops. Heck, you guys, probably our shareholders, you might not know it, Right. But in your retirement funds, in your 401Ks, in the firefighters funds, in the police funds, in the teachers, they’re invested in utilities and they are invested in PG&E. And so shareholders at PG&E, are moms and pops and I want to keep my promise to them too. They’ve entrusted their life savings to a mutual fund or something and asking for a little return to come back. That’s what PG&E delivers. When we deliver profits, we deliver profits for those moms and pops who are funding the infrastructure that keeps people safe in California.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you’re just joining us, you’re listening to a Political Breakdown from KQED Public Radio. I’m Marisa Lagos. Here is Scott Shafer. Our guest today, PG&E CEO Patti Poppe. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I want to ask about corporate culture. We’ve been told that your motto is “leading with love.” And. We mentioned earlier, you know, these decimating fires and natural gas explosion in San Bruno, felony charges, bankruptcy. Like what was the morale like when you got there and how do you change that and potentially the culture of a company if that’s needed?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patti Poppe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, culture change at PG&E is the number one priority because it’s through our people that we deliver what we do. And there is no doubt that people had were shaken about their role in the past, their role in the future. How do they make it right? It’s a big entity. What is PG&E? And “leading with love” is a fundamental tenet that I felt needed to interrupt business status quo. To come in and say, Hello, I’m your new CEO and I lead with love. I got a lot of, like, reaction…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Like oh yeah, she’s from the Midwest. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patti Poppe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, she’s from Michigan. Yeah no, the Midwest for sure. And they they, you know, in fact, I had people say, you know what? You can’t say that you’re losing credibility. I said, Oh my friends get used to it because I think love is essential ingredient. You know, you look at professional athletes, for example, I’m a huge Golden State Warriors fan and have been for a long time, long before I moved here. Maybe that’s why I migrated.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Scott Shafer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Draymond is from Michigan. Michigan State.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patti Poppe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, that’s true. But you know, the athletes very the and the winning teams, of course, they always talk about how they love their teammates. They love their coach, they love the players. Why is that full expression of joy of the game constrained to only professional athletes? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I don’t know, we love each other. We like to talk about that at KQED.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patti Poppe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s nice!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Scott Shafer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> You know, but in addition to the joy or maybe, you know, it adds to the joy, are the salaries and the bonuses that a lot of the executives get. It’s a lot of money. I think you’re you make 51 million, I think, per year.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patti Poppe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No, no, no, no. That was that was a one time make hole. I had already earned that money at my previous company. And the only way I wasn’t going to leave that on the table to take the job, so they paid me what I had made.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In 2021, yeah.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Scott Shafer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But there was also on the table, I think, $188 million in raises and bonuses for executives at a time when, you know, so many terrible things were happening. And I think a lot of people on the outside look and say, where is the accountability? Why do people working for companies that are either, you know, financially not doing well or doing bad things, you know, in out in the world as with the wildfires and so on? Why are why are people getting rewarded?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patti Poppe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, I will say this. To attract talent, there are market rates for leadership. And people can work a lot of places. When I joined PG&E, the entire executive team was vacant, so there was no one there making money off what had happened. They had all been fired or had quit. I had to hire an entirely new team. I searched the entire world and the country for the best and brightest leaders, and I have to pay them to come. And they left good jobs. They did not need to come and they did. And so there’s there’s a market rate for talent, just like there’s a market rate for athletes, just like there’s a market rate for great radio broadcasters.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Scott Shafer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s not the same as athletes, let me tell you that.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patti Poppe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Nor is mine. But, you know, I think that that this idea that that to invest in leadership is essential to turning the company around. And so to invest in leadership, there darn better be a return on investment for customers and for our coworkers to have the right leaders in place.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, I want to talk about customers. We just saw approval of PG&E rates to go up for everyone in January. The average is going to be about $30 a month, which adds up over the course of a year to hundreds of dollars. Why is this happening? And especially given everything we’ve talked about, you know, you haven’t been CEO forever, but the customers have been paying for, you know, for a long time. And there’s been a lot in the past of evidence of not necessarily investing that money wisely or doing all the things that were promised under previous rates. So what’s the case to to to and you already made it to the regulators, but to the rate payers that this is justified?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patti Poppe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. Well, first of all, I when I first got here, I heard a lot of people say to me, oh my gosh, PG&E chose profits over safety. You didn’t invest in the infrastructure. Well, I will tell you, the leadership team at the helm of PG&E is very focused on delivering the safe infrastructure that will stand the test of time. That does cost something. The the good news is that rate increase that we requested and it’s a four year rate increase. We hadn’t had one in a couple of years. We did put in for this rate increase. There is some catch up for investments we’ve made in hardening the system and making the system safe to wildfire. We’ve had significant improvement in that area, which I’ll talk about. But the idea that over that four years, 2023, 2024, 2025 and 2026, the average the compound average rate increase for each of those four years is going to be around 3%. It just so happens the first year is the biggest bump and then actually it will come down next year and come down again the next year. There’s some catch up between 23 and 2024 that is embedded in that increase that will get spread back out over time.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Scott Shafer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And that is largely to underground a lot of the wires?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patti Poppe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That the undergrounding is a small piece. It’s a lot 85% of it is safety and infrastructure, though, investments all over the system. And the undergrounding was a small piece of that increase that the regulators really wanted to see us do more, could we do more and didn’t want to write a blank check and yes, tell us to go collect those dollars before we proved we could do it. I’m happy to report that this year we will have underground 350 miles of line that we have never done that before, almost double what we’ve ever done before.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And for years we heard that was way too expensive. And so is that is the technology changed? Is it just we’re at a point where that just needs to happen?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patti Poppe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Two things. One, the comparison to building overhead conductor, which has been the standard to what we’re doing today, takes into account all of the vegetation management that we’re doing today that we were not doing before. PG&E spends 1.5 to 1.8 billion dollars a year taking down trees. That’s a problem. California, we need to save the trees and we need to instead of investing over a billion dollars a year, invest that same amount in a capital investment, you actually can invest in that undergrounding for less. It is lower cost than what we are doing today or before. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So were they just wrong before? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patti Poppe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Before we weren’t doing as much vegetation management, so it wasn’t as much of a trade. But today we have to or we’re\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Scott Shafer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And then the executives say they were doing it and a lot of it wasn’t getting done.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patti Poppe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I, I can’t actually I don’t know that. I don’t know that to be true.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Scott Shafer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Another question, though, how much of this the problem with wildfires and you know lines trees falling lines getting you know sparking and so on, how much of that can be resolved, do you think, from undergrounding versus new technology or hardening the system, adding resiliency?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patti Poppe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It is all of the above. And I will say on undergrounding and we talk about our 10,000 mile plan and I sometimes wish I had called it the 9,442 mile plan because they’re very specific miles. These aren’t it isn’t an arbitrary 10,000. These are very specific high risk miles in the places where the trees are coming in contact with the lines and trees that look healthy on the outside that have some issue in the in the routes. We can now protect customers with those specific miles being underground.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That is PG&E CEO Patti Poppe. Thank you for coming in. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Scott Shafer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thanks a lot. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Wish we had more time.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patti Poppe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, I do, too. I’ll come back any time.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That is going to do it for this edition of Political Breakdown. We’re a production of KQED Public Radio.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Scott Shafer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Our engineer today is Christopher Beale. Our producer is Izzy Bloom. I’m Scott Shafer. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I’m Marisa Lagos. We’ll see you next time. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11969207/the-future-of-pge-with-ceo-patti-poppe","authors":["3239","255"],"programs":["news_33544"],"categories":["news_8"],"tags":["news_1092","news_33610","news_140","news_22235","news_33611"],"featImg":"news_11969208","label":"source_news_11969207"},"news_11956089":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11956089","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11956089","score":null,"sort":[1689885180000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"how-californias-electric-cars-could-feed-the-grid-and-power-peoples-homes","title":"How California’s Electric Cars Could Feed the Grid and Power People’s Homes","publishDate":1689885180,"format":"standard","headTitle":"How California’s Electric Cars Could Feed the Grid and Power People’s Homes | KQED","labelTerm":{},"content":"\u003cp>As a historic 10-day heat wave threatened brownouts across California \u003ca href=\"https://www.gov.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/8.31.22-Heat-Proclamation.pdf?emrc=78e3fc\">last summer,\u003c/a> a small San Diego County school district did its part to help: It captured excess power from its electric school buses and \u003ca href=\"https://www.sdgenews.com/article/sdge-and-cajon-valley-union-school-district-flip-switch-regions-first-vehicle-grid-project\">sent it back to the state’s overwhelmed grid\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The seven school buses provided enough power for 452 homes each day of the heat wave, and the buses were recharged only during off hours when the grid was not strained.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California energy officials have high hopes that this new power source, called bidirectional charging, will \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/environment/2023/01/california-electric-cars-grid/\">boost California’s power supply\u003c/a> as it ramps up its \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/environment/2022/08/electric-cars-california-to-phase-out-gas-cars/\">ambitious agenda of electrifying its cars\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/environment/climate-change/2023/04/california-phases-out-diesel-trucks/\">trucks\u003c/a> and buses while switching to 100% clean energy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Gov. Gavin Newsom called two-way charging technology a “game changer,” and said, “this is the future” during a speech last September, about a week after the heat wave ended.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This year, a \u003ca href=\"https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=202320240SB233\">bill\u003c/a> already approved by the state Senate in a 29-9 vote would require all new electric cars sold in California to be equipped with bidirectional technology by 2030. In the Assembly, two committees approved the bill earlier this month and it is now under consideration by a third.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This two-way charging has big potential — but also faces big obstacles. By 2035, California expects to have 12.5 million electric cars on the road, but it’s an open question how much California can rely on them to feed the grid. Automakers say the technology would add thousands of dollars to the cost of an electric car, and California’s utilities are still sorting out how to pay ratepayers for selling them the kilowatt hours.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The ability to use electric cars, trucks and buses to feed energy back into the grid would be especially helpful during peak times for energy use, such as heatwaves. But relying on vehicles as a year-round power source may not be practical — at least not yet.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s a great idea conceptually…but we haven’t had the time to flesh out the details of what needs to happen for California to be able to power itself on electric vehicles,” said Orville Thomas, state policy director for CALSTART, a sustainable energy nonprofit.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[pullquote size=\"medium\" align=\"right\" citation=\"Orville Thomas, state policy director, CALSTART\"]‘It’s a great idea conceptually … but we haven’t had the time to flesh out the details of what needs to happen for California to be able to power itself on electric vehicles.’[/pullquote]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It should be on the menu of options that California has. Is it going to be the number one option? Definitely not.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So far, its use has been limited in California. Pacific Gas and Electric has a pilot program — the first in the nation — that lets up to 1,000 residential customers with bidirectional chargers sell power back to the utility. Some school districts also are experimenting with it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Only about half a dozen electric car models currently are equipped with bidirectional capabilities, including the Hyundai Ioniq 5, Nissan Leaf and Ford F-150 Lightning. Tesla announced recently that all its models will have it by 2025.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Electric vehicles convert one type of energy, alternating current electricity, into another, direct current, which is stored in a battery. Bidirectional charging means that an electric vehicle can convert the energy it has stored in its battery and send it to other sources, such as home appliances or back to the grid.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cimg decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"aligncenter size-full wp-image-11956108\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/Screenshot-2023-07-20-at-12.34.58-PM.png\" alt=\"A graphic image demonstrating how biodirectional charging can help bolster the power grid. A cartoon-like electric vehicle is pictured with various arrows pointing toward different areas it could help charge such as a transformer, home and a refrigerator.\" width=\"1602\" height=\"1340\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/Screenshot-2023-07-20-at-12.34.58-PM.png 1602w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/Screenshot-2023-07-20-at-12.34.58-PM-800x669.png 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/Screenshot-2023-07-20-at-12.34.58-PM-1020x853.png 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/Screenshot-2023-07-20-at-12.34.58-PM-160x134.png 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/Screenshot-2023-07-20-at-12.34.58-PM-1536x1285.png 1536w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1602px) 100vw, 1602px\">\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Willett M. Kempton, a University of Delaware professor who has studied bidirectional charging for more than two decades, said the vast majority of the time a vehicle is parked and not using electricity.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Five percent of the time you’re using the car and you want to have enough energy — electricity or gasoline — to get to where you’re going and back. But most of the time, it’s just sitting there and some other use could be made of it,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Kempton said these vehicles, properly managed, could be sources of reserve energy, supplanting backup sources that burn fossil fuels.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Gregory Poilasne, co-founder and CEO of Nuvve Holding Corp., which sells electric fleet charging services, said a big challenge is that cars are unreliable energy assets. “At any time, somebody might come in and unplug the car,” he said. But he added, as the technology becomes more reliable and affordable, bidirectional cars and fleets should increase.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>The cost: $3,700 per car\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>In Denmark, bidirectional charging earns electric vehicle fleet owners who sell power to the grid $3,000 per vehicle a year, Poilasne said, adding that this reduces the average total cost of electric car ownership by about 40%.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But citing the high cost, automakers oppose the Senate bill that would mandate the chargers for all new cars sold in California by 2030. It would increase the average cost of an electric car by $3,700, according to an opposition letter written by Curt Augustine of the Alliance for Automotive Innovation, which represents General Motors, Ford and other major auto companies.[pullquote size=\"medium\" align=\"right\" citation=\"Curt Augustine, senior director of state affairs, Alliance for Automotive Innovation\"]‘Not all customers will see an advantage of bidirectional charging, and therefore, should not have to pay more for a technology that they will not use.’[/pullquote]About $3,000 of that cost would be adding battery capacity to meet warranty requirements, while other costs are for hardware and software.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“This technology is a competitive matter between vehicle manufacturers and should remain that way,” Augustine wrote. “Not all customers will see an advantage of bidirectional charging, and therefore, should not have to pay more for a technology that they will not use.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Thomas of CALSTART agreed, saying it should be optional.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There might be a situation where there are people that want to do it and will pay a little extra for a car that is bidirectional, but there will also be people that just want to use a vehicle for driving,” he said. “Do we raise the price of electric vehicles for everybody?”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But Sen. Nancy Skinner, a Democrat from Oakland who authored SB 233, said she wants to ensure that automakers don’t reserve the technology for only their higher-end models. She said since the relatively affordable Nissan Leaf has it, it can be widely available.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Skinner said all consumers would benefit from the technology by selling energy to the grid or using the energy in emergencies. But she said another important reason is that it could end reliance on diesel generators during power emergencies like wildfires.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11956111\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1920px\">\u003cimg decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11956111\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/RS32599_ElectricCars_AW_03-qut.jpg\" alt='A public parking space is marked with the words \"public charging.\" An icon of a car with a lightning bolt is pictured above the parking space.' width=\"1920\" height=\"1280\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/RS32599_ElectricCars_AW_03-qut.jpg 1920w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/RS32599_ElectricCars_AW_03-qut-800x533.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/RS32599_ElectricCars_AW_03-qut-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/RS32599_ElectricCars_AW_03-qut-160x107.jpg 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/RS32599_ElectricCars_AW_03-qut-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">State officials and utilities hope that more electric cars and fleets of trucks and buses will be equipped with biodirectional charging, which could feed electricity back into the grid. \u003ccite>(Anne Wernikoff/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“If you have an EV you don’t need that diesel generator,” Skinner said. “Why would we want to encourage diesel generators? They’re extremely polluting.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Jeffrey Lu, an air pollution specialist with the California Energy Commission’s vehicle-grid integration unit, said the state is working with owners to identify the best times to charge — called smart charging — to protect the grid. Bidirectional charging takes the concept a step further, he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Energy Commission is not yet ready to say how reliant California will be on bidirectional charging to provide sufficient power and meet the state’s 2045 mandate for carbon-free electricity.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We’re fairly early in this process. California is very committed to load flexibility broadly, but where that load flexibility specifically comes from, how many megawatts or gigawatts are coming from any particular kind of resource? We’re working on that,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California’s utilities are running pilot projects and studying how bidirectional charging might work and how electric car owners could be compensated for selling energy to the grid.[pullquote size=\"medium\" align=\"right\" citation=\"Chanel Parson, director of electrification, Southern California Edison\"]‘By selling it back to the grid when our rates are more expensive, then that actually helps reduce customers’ energy bills.’[/pullquote]The California Public Utilities Commission has studied the issue for more than a decade, said spokesperson Terrie D. Prosper, including funding pilot projects and establishing two working groups.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Last year many utilities signed a “Vehicle to Everything” \u003ca href=\"https://www.energy.gov/sites/default/files/2022-04/OTT%20V2X%20MOU%20Final%20%281%29.pdf\">memorandum of understanding\u003c/a> with car manufacturers, state agencies, the federal government and others seeking to accelerate all aspects of bidirectional charging.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Southern California Edison, which serves about 5 million businesses and residences, wants to go beyond using bidirectional charging as just an emergency backup.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Chanel Parson, Edison’s director of electrification, said the utility is working on a rate program that would allow customers to sell their power back to the grid every day of the year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“By selling it back to the grid when our rates are more expensive, then that actually helps reduce customers’ energy bills. And it could be so economically attractive that they’re actually making money,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Pacific Gas and Electric, which serves 5.5 million electric customers in Northern California, said it is aggressively looking to build what it calls a robust vehicle-to-grid-integration. It has partnerships with \u003ca href=\"https://www.pgecurrents.com/articles/3741-power-pg-e-bmw-north-america-start-v2x-testing-california\">BMW of North America\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://www.pgecurrents.com/articles/3413-pg-e-ford-collaborate-bidirectional-electric-vehicle-charging-technology-customers-homes\">Ford Motor Company\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://www.pgecurrents.com/articles/3410-pg-e-general-motors-collaborate-pilot-reimagine-use-electric-vehicles-backup-power-sources-customers\">General Motors\u003c/a> exploring bidirectional charging.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The utility last year launched the nation’s first \u003ca href=\"https://www.pgecurrents.com/articles/3444-pg-e-launch-new-pilots-studying-electric-vehicle-bidirectional-charging-technology-homes-businesses-microgrids\">bidirectional charging pilot\u003c/a> available to residential customers, offering up to 1,000 customers $2,500 for enrolling and up to an additional $2,175, depending on their participation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Los Angeles Department of Water and Power also is conducting a pilot project using a small fleet of Nissan Leafs. The utility hopes the technology will eventually provide power during peak load times.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Five years is definitely within reach,” said José María Paz, the utility’s project manager for vehicle-to-grid integration. “Technology is advancing quite fast.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>School buses are a test case\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>The electric school buses at the Cajon Valley Union School District in San Diego County are among a number of school district pilot projects in California. Experts see school buses as a good option for two-way charging because they have set routes and are often parked during peak load times between 4 p.m. and 9 p.m.[aside label='More on Electric Vehicles' tag='electric-cars']Nationally, Nuvve has about 350 school buses connected to its platform.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At the Cajon Valley district, seven electric buses sent 767-kilowatt hours of power back to the grid during the heat wave between Aug. 17 and Sept. 9, according to Nuvve.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Working with Nuvve, the buses power up when energy is less expensive, said Tysen Brodwolf, the district’s transportation director. Brodwolf said there are still several quirks, including the chargers not communicating properly with the grid or someone improperly plugging in a bus.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“But we’re getting there every day,” Brodwolf said. “We’re working through all those bumps and obviously, when you take on a pilot project, you have to take that into consideration that things aren’t necessarily going to go smoothly.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"Through bidirectional charging, electric car owners can sell energy to the grid or use it to power their homes. But will the costly technology become widespread?","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1689885285,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":44,"wordCount":1941},"headData":{"title":"How California’s Electric Cars Could Feed the Grid and Power People’s Homes | KQED","description":"Through bidirectional charging, electric car owners can sell energy to the grid or use it to power their homes. But will the costly technology become widespread?","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"How California’s Electric Cars Could Feed the Grid and Power People’s Homes","datePublished":"2023-07-20T20:33:00.000Z","dateModified":"2023-07-20T20:34:45.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"Y","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"source":"CalMatters","sourceUrl":"https://calmatters.org/","nprByline":"\u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/author/alejandro-lazo/\">Alejandro Lazo\u003c/a>","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","showOnAuthorArchivePages":"No","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11956089/how-californias-electric-cars-could-feed-the-grid-and-power-peoples-homes","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>As a historic 10-day heat wave threatened brownouts across California \u003ca href=\"https://www.gov.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/8.31.22-Heat-Proclamation.pdf?emrc=78e3fc\">last summer,\u003c/a> a small San Diego County school district did its part to help: It captured excess power from its electric school buses and \u003ca href=\"https://www.sdgenews.com/article/sdge-and-cajon-valley-union-school-district-flip-switch-regions-first-vehicle-grid-project\">sent it back to the state’s overwhelmed grid\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The seven school buses provided enough power for 452 homes each day of the heat wave, and the buses were recharged only during off hours when the grid was not strained.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California energy officials have high hopes that this new power source, called bidirectional charging, will \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/environment/2023/01/california-electric-cars-grid/\">boost California’s power supply\u003c/a> as it ramps up its \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/environment/2022/08/electric-cars-california-to-phase-out-gas-cars/\">ambitious agenda of electrifying its cars\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/environment/climate-change/2023/04/california-phases-out-diesel-trucks/\">trucks\u003c/a> and buses while switching to 100% clean energy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Gov. Gavin Newsom called two-way charging technology a “game changer,” and said, “this is the future” during a speech last September, about a week after the heat wave ended.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This year, a \u003ca href=\"https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=202320240SB233\">bill\u003c/a> already approved by the state Senate in a 29-9 vote would require all new electric cars sold in California to be equipped with bidirectional technology by 2030. In the Assembly, two committees approved the bill earlier this month and it is now under consideration by a third.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This two-way charging has big potential — but also faces big obstacles. By 2035, California expects to have 12.5 million electric cars on the road, but it’s an open question how much California can rely on them to feed the grid. Automakers say the technology would add thousands of dollars to the cost of an electric car, and California’s utilities are still sorting out how to pay ratepayers for selling them the kilowatt hours.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The ability to use electric cars, trucks and buses to feed energy back into the grid would be especially helpful during peak times for energy use, such as heatwaves. But relying on vehicles as a year-round power source may not be practical — at least not yet.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s a great idea conceptually…but we haven’t had the time to flesh out the details of what needs to happen for California to be able to power itself on electric vehicles,” said Orville Thomas, state policy director for CALSTART, a sustainable energy nonprofit.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"‘It’s a great idea conceptually … but we haven’t had the time to flesh out the details of what needs to happen for California to be able to power itself on electric vehicles.’","name":"pullquote","attributes":{"named":{"size":"medium","align":"right","citation":"Orville Thomas, state policy director, CALSTART","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It should be on the menu of options that California has. Is it going to be the number one option? Definitely not.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So far, its use has been limited in California. Pacific Gas and Electric has a pilot program — the first in the nation — that lets up to 1,000 residential customers with bidirectional chargers sell power back to the utility. Some school districts also are experimenting with it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Only about half a dozen electric car models currently are equipped with bidirectional capabilities, including the Hyundai Ioniq 5, Nissan Leaf and Ford F-150 Lightning. Tesla announced recently that all its models will have it by 2025.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Electric vehicles convert one type of energy, alternating current electricity, into another, direct current, which is stored in a battery. Bidirectional charging means that an electric vehicle can convert the energy it has stored in its battery and send it to other sources, such as home appliances or back to the grid.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cimg decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"aligncenter size-full wp-image-11956108\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/Screenshot-2023-07-20-at-12.34.58-PM.png\" alt=\"A graphic image demonstrating how biodirectional charging can help bolster the power grid. A cartoon-like electric vehicle is pictured with various arrows pointing toward different areas it could help charge such as a transformer, home and a refrigerator.\" width=\"1602\" height=\"1340\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/Screenshot-2023-07-20-at-12.34.58-PM.png 1602w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/Screenshot-2023-07-20-at-12.34.58-PM-800x669.png 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/Screenshot-2023-07-20-at-12.34.58-PM-1020x853.png 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/Screenshot-2023-07-20-at-12.34.58-PM-160x134.png 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/Screenshot-2023-07-20-at-12.34.58-PM-1536x1285.png 1536w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1602px) 100vw, 1602px\">\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Willett M. Kempton, a University of Delaware professor who has studied bidirectional charging for more than two decades, said the vast majority of the time a vehicle is parked and not using electricity.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Five percent of the time you’re using the car and you want to have enough energy — electricity or gasoline — to get to where you’re going and back. But most of the time, it’s just sitting there and some other use could be made of it,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Kempton said these vehicles, properly managed, could be sources of reserve energy, supplanting backup sources that burn fossil fuels.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Gregory Poilasne, co-founder and CEO of Nuvve Holding Corp., which sells electric fleet charging services, said a big challenge is that cars are unreliable energy assets. “At any time, somebody might come in and unplug the car,” he said. But he added, as the technology becomes more reliable and affordable, bidirectional cars and fleets should increase.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>The cost: $3,700 per car\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>In Denmark, bidirectional charging earns electric vehicle fleet owners who sell power to the grid $3,000 per vehicle a year, Poilasne said, adding that this reduces the average total cost of electric car ownership by about 40%.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But citing the high cost, automakers oppose the Senate bill that would mandate the chargers for all new cars sold in California by 2030. It would increase the average cost of an electric car by $3,700, according to an opposition letter written by Curt Augustine of the Alliance for Automotive Innovation, which represents General Motors, Ford and other major auto companies.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"‘Not all customers will see an advantage of bidirectional charging, and therefore, should not have to pay more for a technology that they will not use.’","name":"pullquote","attributes":{"named":{"size":"medium","align":"right","citation":"Curt Augustine, senior director of state affairs, Alliance for Automotive Innovation","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>About $3,000 of that cost would be adding battery capacity to meet warranty requirements, while other costs are for hardware and software.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“This technology is a competitive matter between vehicle manufacturers and should remain that way,” Augustine wrote. “Not all customers will see an advantage of bidirectional charging, and therefore, should not have to pay more for a technology that they will not use.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Thomas of CALSTART agreed, saying it should be optional.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There might be a situation where there are people that want to do it and will pay a little extra for a car that is bidirectional, but there will also be people that just want to use a vehicle for driving,” he said. “Do we raise the price of electric vehicles for everybody?”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But Sen. Nancy Skinner, a Democrat from Oakland who authored SB 233, said she wants to ensure that automakers don’t reserve the technology for only their higher-end models. She said since the relatively affordable Nissan Leaf has it, it can be widely available.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Skinner said all consumers would benefit from the technology by selling energy to the grid or using the energy in emergencies. But she said another important reason is that it could end reliance on diesel generators during power emergencies like wildfires.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11956111\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1920px\">\u003cimg decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11956111\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/RS32599_ElectricCars_AW_03-qut.jpg\" alt='A public parking space is marked with the words \"public charging.\" An icon of a car with a lightning bolt is pictured above the parking space.' width=\"1920\" height=\"1280\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/RS32599_ElectricCars_AW_03-qut.jpg 1920w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/RS32599_ElectricCars_AW_03-qut-800x533.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/RS32599_ElectricCars_AW_03-qut-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/RS32599_ElectricCars_AW_03-qut-160x107.jpg 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/RS32599_ElectricCars_AW_03-qut-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">State officials and utilities hope that more electric cars and fleets of trucks and buses will be equipped with biodirectional charging, which could feed electricity back into the grid. \u003ccite>(Anne Wernikoff/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“If you have an EV you don’t need that diesel generator,” Skinner said. “Why would we want to encourage diesel generators? They’re extremely polluting.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Jeffrey Lu, an air pollution specialist with the California Energy Commission’s vehicle-grid integration unit, said the state is working with owners to identify the best times to charge — called smart charging — to protect the grid. Bidirectional charging takes the concept a step further, he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Energy Commission is not yet ready to say how reliant California will be on bidirectional charging to provide sufficient power and meet the state’s 2045 mandate for carbon-free electricity.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We’re fairly early in this process. California is very committed to load flexibility broadly, but where that load flexibility specifically comes from, how many megawatts or gigawatts are coming from any particular kind of resource? We’re working on that,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California’s utilities are running pilot projects and studying how bidirectional charging might work and how electric car owners could be compensated for selling energy to the grid.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"‘By selling it back to the grid when our rates are more expensive, then that actually helps reduce customers’ energy bills.’","name":"pullquote","attributes":{"named":{"size":"medium","align":"right","citation":"Chanel Parson, director of electrification, Southern California Edison","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>The California Public Utilities Commission has studied the issue for more than a decade, said spokesperson Terrie D. Prosper, including funding pilot projects and establishing two working groups.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Last year many utilities signed a “Vehicle to Everything” \u003ca href=\"https://www.energy.gov/sites/default/files/2022-04/OTT%20V2X%20MOU%20Final%20%281%29.pdf\">memorandum of understanding\u003c/a> with car manufacturers, state agencies, the federal government and others seeking to accelerate all aspects of bidirectional charging.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Southern California Edison, which serves about 5 million businesses and residences, wants to go beyond using bidirectional charging as just an emergency backup.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Chanel Parson, Edison’s director of electrification, said the utility is working on a rate program that would allow customers to sell their power back to the grid every day of the year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“By selling it back to the grid when our rates are more expensive, then that actually helps reduce customers’ energy bills. And it could be so economically attractive that they’re actually making money,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Pacific Gas and Electric, which serves 5.5 million electric customers in Northern California, said it is aggressively looking to build what it calls a robust vehicle-to-grid-integration. It has partnerships with \u003ca href=\"https://www.pgecurrents.com/articles/3741-power-pg-e-bmw-north-america-start-v2x-testing-california\">BMW of North America\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://www.pgecurrents.com/articles/3413-pg-e-ford-collaborate-bidirectional-electric-vehicle-charging-technology-customers-homes\">Ford Motor Company\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://www.pgecurrents.com/articles/3410-pg-e-general-motors-collaborate-pilot-reimagine-use-electric-vehicles-backup-power-sources-customers\">General Motors\u003c/a> exploring bidirectional charging.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The utility last year launched the nation’s first \u003ca href=\"https://www.pgecurrents.com/articles/3444-pg-e-launch-new-pilots-studying-electric-vehicle-bidirectional-charging-technology-homes-businesses-microgrids\">bidirectional charging pilot\u003c/a> available to residential customers, offering up to 1,000 customers $2,500 for enrolling and up to an additional $2,175, depending on their participation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Los Angeles Department of Water and Power also is conducting a pilot project using a small fleet of Nissan Leafs. The utility hopes the technology will eventually provide power during peak load times.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Five years is definitely within reach,” said José María Paz, the utility’s project manager for vehicle-to-grid integration. “Technology is advancing quite fast.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>School buses are a test case\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>The electric school buses at the Cajon Valley Union School District in San Diego County are among a number of school district pilot projects in California. Experts see school buses as a good option for two-way charging because they have set routes and are often parked during peak load times between 4 p.m. and 9 p.m.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"label":"More on Electric Vehicles ","tag":"electric-cars"},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Nationally, Nuvve has about 350 school buses connected to its platform.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At the Cajon Valley district, seven electric buses sent 767-kilowatt hours of power back to the grid during the heat wave between Aug. 17 and Sept. 9, according to Nuvve.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Working with Nuvve, the buses power up when energy is less expensive, said Tysen Brodwolf, the district’s transportation director. Brodwolf said there are still several quirks, including the chargers not communicating properly with the grid or someone improperly plugging in a bus.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“But we’re getting there every day,” Brodwolf said. “We’re working through all those bumps and obviously, when you take on a pilot project, you have to take that into consideration that things aren’t necessarily going to go smoothly.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11956089/how-californias-electric-cars-could-feed-the-grid-and-power-peoples-homes","authors":["byline_news_11956089"],"categories":["news_19906","news_8","news_356"],"tags":["news_1625","news_18538","news_32158","news_21349","news_30922","news_31926","news_21348","news_30472","news_20023","news_18578","news_1092","news_26823"],"affiliates":["news_18481"],"featImg":"news_11956100","label":"source_news_11956089"},"news_11925495":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11925495","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11925495","score":null,"sort":[1663149616000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"were-gonna-have-to-meet-this-challenge-again-last-weeks-historic-heatwave","title":"‘We’re Gonna Have to Meet This Challenge Again’: Last Week’s Historic Heat Wave","publishDate":1663149616,"format":"audio","headTitle":"‘We’re Gonna Have to Meet This Challenge Again’: Last Week’s Historic Heat Wave | KQED","labelTerm":{},"content":"\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Bay Area experienced record-setting heat last week, with temperatures reaching up to 115 degrees in some parts, threatening to overload the state’s power grid. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It won’t be the last. Climate change makes it even more likely that these heat waves will be more frequent and severe. So today, we talk about takeaways from the historic heat wave, and how we just barely avoided rolling blackouts this time around.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Guest: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/danbrekke\">Dan Brekke\u003c/a>,\u003c/span> KQED \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">editor and reporter \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://bit.ly/3dk8uSd\">\u003cem>Read the transcript\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\n\u003cp id=\"embed-code\" class=\"inconsolata\">\n\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC7887295937&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\n\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003cp class=\"p1\">\u003cem>Your support makes KQED podcasts possible. You can show your love by going to \u003ca href=\"https://kqed.org/donate/podcasts\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">\u003cspan class=\"s1\">https://kqed.org/donate/podcasts.\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":null,"status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1700690339,"stats":{"hasAudio":true,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":6,"wordCount":109},"headData":{"title":"‘We’re Gonna Have to Meet This Challenge Again’: Last Week’s Historic Heat Wave | KQED","description":"The Bay Area experienced record-setting heat last week, with temperatures reaching up to 115 degrees in some parts, threatening to overload the state’s power grid. It won’t be the last. Climate change makes it even more likely that these heat waves will be more frequent and severe. So today, we talk about takeaways from the","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"‘We’re Gonna Have to Meet This Challenge Again’: Last Week’s Historic Heat Wave","datePublished":"2022-09-14T10:00:16.000Z","dateModified":"2023-11-22T21:58:59.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"Y","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"source":"The Bay","sourceUrl":"https://www.kqed.org/podcasts/thebay","audioUrl":"https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC7887295937.mp3?updated=1663111276","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","path":"/news/11925495/were-gonna-have-to-meet-this-challenge-again-last-weeks-historic-heatwave","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Bay Area experienced record-setting heat last week, with temperatures reaching up to 115 degrees in some parts, threatening to overload the state’s power grid. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It won’t be the last. Climate change makes it even more likely that these heat waves will be more frequent and severe. So today, we talk about takeaways from the historic heat wave, and how we just barely avoided rolling blackouts this time around.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Guest: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/danbrekke\">Dan Brekke\u003c/a>,\u003c/span> KQED \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">editor and reporter \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://bit.ly/3dk8uSd\">\u003cem>Read the transcript\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\n\u003cp id=\"embed-code\" class=\"inconsolata\">\n\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC7887295937&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\n\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003cp class=\"p1\">\u003cem>Your support makes KQED podcasts possible. You can show your love by going to \u003ca href=\"https://kqed.org/donate/podcasts\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">\u003cspan class=\"s1\">https://kqed.org/donate/podcasts.\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11925495/were-gonna-have-to-meet-this-challenge-again-last-weeks-historic-heatwave","authors":["8654","222","11802","11649"],"programs":["news_28779"],"categories":["news_8","news_33520"],"tags":["news_29147","news_21164","news_1092","news_26915","news_22598"],"featImg":"news_11925496","label":"source_news_11925495"},"news_11889925":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11889925","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11889925","score":null,"sort":[1632527468000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"pge-charged-with-manslaughter-in-california-wildfire-last-year-that-killed-4","title":"PG&E Charged With Manslaughter in 2020 California Wildfire That Killed 4","publishDate":1632527468,"format":"standard","headTitle":"KQED News","labelTerm":{"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp>PG&E was charged Friday with involuntary manslaughter and other crimes after its equipment sparked a Northern California wildfire that killed four people and destroyed hundreds of homes last year, prosecutors said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It is the latest legal action against the nation’s largest utility, which pleaded guilty last year to 84 counts of involuntary manslaughter in the 2018 blaze ignited by its long-neglected electrical grid that nearly destroyed the town of Paradise and became the deadliest U.S. wildfire in a century.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Shasta County District Attorney Stephanie Bridgett announced the 31 charges, including 11 felonies, against PG&E, saying it failed to perform its legal duties and that its “failure was reckless and criminally negligent, and it resulted in the death of four people.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If the utility is convicted of involuntary manslaughter, the punishment would be a fine for each person killed in the Zogg Fire last year near the city of Redding. A corporation “can’t go to jail, so we’re talking fines, fees, the ability for the court to order remedial and corrective measures,” Bridgett said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“One of our primary functions here is to hold them responsible and let the surviving families know that their loved one did not die in vain,” she added.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>PG&E CEO Patti Poppe said failing to prevent the fire was not a crime.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“This was a tragedy, four people died. And my coworkers are working so hard to prevent fires and the catastrophic losses that come with them. They have dedicated their careers to it, criminalizing their judgment is not right,” Poppe said in a statement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The wind-whipped Zogg Fire began on Sept. 27, 2020, and raged through rugged terrain and small communities west of Redding, killing four people, burning about 200 homes and blackening about 87 square miles of land. Three of the victims died as they tried to outrun the blaze and were found inside or near their vehicles. A fourth victim died at a hospital.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In March, state fire investigators concluded that the blaze was sparked by a gray pine tree that fell onto a PG&E transmission line. Shasta and Tehama Counties have sued the utility alleging negligence, saying PG&E had failed to remove the tree even though it had been marked for removal two years earlier. The utility says the tree was subsequently cleared to stay.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The district attorney determined that the company was criminally liable for the fire. The charges Friday include enhancements for injury to a 29-year-old firefighter who was hit by a falling tree that fractured his spine, paralyzing him from the chest down. They also include felony arson counts linked to several fires started by the utility’s equipment in Shasta County over the last year, Bridgett said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside tag=\"wildfire\" label=\"Related Posts\"]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>PG&E, which has an estimated 16 million customers in central and Northern California, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11721861/pge-files-for-chapter-11-bankruptcy-protection\">filed for bankruptcy protection in 2019\u003c/a> after its aging equipment was blamed for a series of fires, including the 2018 Camp Fire that killed 85 people and destroyed 10,000 homes in Paradise and neighboring communities.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Company officials have acknowledged that PG&E hasn’t lived up to expectations in the past but said changes in leadership and elsewhere ensure it’s on the right track and will do better. They have listed a wide range of improvements that include using more advanced technology to avoid setting wildfires and help detect them quicker.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>PG&E also remains on criminal probation for a 2010 pipeline explosion in the San Francisco Bay Area city of San Bruno that killed eight people, giving a federal judge oversight of the company. The judge and California power regulators have rebuked PG&E for breaking promises to reduce the dangers posed by trees near its power lines.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The company has acknowledged that \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11881579/pge-power-line-may-have-sparked-dixie-fire-near-where-its-equipment-started-states-deadliest-blaze\">its equipment may have played a role in sparking this summer's Dixie Fire\u003c/a>, which has burned nearly 1 million acres and is now the second-largest wildfire in state history.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>PG&E emerged from bankruptcy last summer and negotiated a $13.5 billion settlement with some wildfire victims. But it still faces both civil and criminal actions, including charges from the Sonoma County district attorney's office over the 2019 Kincade Fire that forced nearly 200,000 people to evacuate.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the meantime, most of the roughly 70,000 victims who have filed claims for the devastation caused by PG&E’s past misdeeds still are awaiting payment from a trust created during the bankruptcy. The trust, which is run independently of PG&E, is facing a nearly $2 billion shortfall because half its funding came in company stock.\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"It is the latest legal action against the nation's largest utility, which pleaded guilty last year to 84 counts of involuntary manslaughter in the 2018 Camp Fire that was ignited by PG&E's long-neglected electrical grid and that nearly destroyed the town of Paradise.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1632531981,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":19,"wordCount":805},"headData":{"title":"PG&E Charged With Manslaughter in 2020 California Wildfire That Killed 4 | KQED","description":"It is the latest legal action against the nation's largest utility, which pleaded guilty last year to 84 counts of involuntary manslaughter in the 2018 Camp Fire that was ignited by PG&E's long-neglected electrical grid and that nearly destroyed the town of Paradise.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"PG&E Charged With Manslaughter in 2020 California Wildfire That Killed 4","datePublished":"2021-09-24T23:51:08.000Z","dateModified":"2021-09-25T01:06:21.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"Y","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"disqusIdentifier":"11889925 https://ww2.kqed.org/news/?p=11889925","disqusUrl":"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/2021/09/24/pge-charged-with-manslaughter-in-california-wildfire-last-year-that-killed-4/","disqusTitle":"PG&E Charged With Manslaughter in 2020 California Wildfire That Killed 4","nprByline":"Olga R. Rodriguez\u003cbr>The Associated Press","path":"/news/11889925/pge-charged-with-manslaughter-in-california-wildfire-last-year-that-killed-4","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>PG&E was charged Friday with involuntary manslaughter and other crimes after its equipment sparked a Northern California wildfire that killed four people and destroyed hundreds of homes last year, prosecutors said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It is the latest legal action against the nation’s largest utility, which pleaded guilty last year to 84 counts of involuntary manslaughter in the 2018 blaze ignited by its long-neglected electrical grid that nearly destroyed the town of Paradise and became the deadliest U.S. wildfire in a century.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Shasta County District Attorney Stephanie Bridgett announced the 31 charges, including 11 felonies, against PG&E, saying it failed to perform its legal duties and that its “failure was reckless and criminally negligent, and it resulted in the death of four people.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If the utility is convicted of involuntary manslaughter, the punishment would be a fine for each person killed in the Zogg Fire last year near the city of Redding. A corporation “can’t go to jail, so we’re talking fines, fees, the ability for the court to order remedial and corrective measures,” Bridgett said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“One of our primary functions here is to hold them responsible and let the surviving families know that their loved one did not die in vain,” she added.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>PG&E CEO Patti Poppe said failing to prevent the fire was not a crime.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“This was a tragedy, four people died. And my coworkers are working so hard to prevent fires and the catastrophic losses that come with them. They have dedicated their careers to it, criminalizing their judgment is not right,” Poppe said in a statement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The wind-whipped Zogg Fire began on Sept. 27, 2020, and raged through rugged terrain and small communities west of Redding, killing four people, burning about 200 homes and blackening about 87 square miles of land. Three of the victims died as they tried to outrun the blaze and were found inside or near their vehicles. A fourth victim died at a hospital.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In March, state fire investigators concluded that the blaze was sparked by a gray pine tree that fell onto a PG&E transmission line. Shasta and Tehama Counties have sued the utility alleging negligence, saying PG&E had failed to remove the tree even though it had been marked for removal two years earlier. The utility says the tree was subsequently cleared to stay.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The district attorney determined that the company was criminally liable for the fire. The charges Friday include enhancements for injury to a 29-year-old firefighter who was hit by a falling tree that fractured his spine, paralyzing him from the chest down. They also include felony arson counts linked to several fires started by the utility’s equipment in Shasta County over the last year, Bridgett said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"tag":"wildfire","label":"Related Posts "},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>PG&E, which has an estimated 16 million customers in central and Northern California, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11721861/pge-files-for-chapter-11-bankruptcy-protection\">filed for bankruptcy protection in 2019\u003c/a> after its aging equipment was blamed for a series of fires, including the 2018 Camp Fire that killed 85 people and destroyed 10,000 homes in Paradise and neighboring communities.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Company officials have acknowledged that PG&E hasn’t lived up to expectations in the past but said changes in leadership and elsewhere ensure it’s on the right track and will do better. They have listed a wide range of improvements that include using more advanced technology to avoid setting wildfires and help detect them quicker.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>PG&E also remains on criminal probation for a 2010 pipeline explosion in the San Francisco Bay Area city of San Bruno that killed eight people, giving a federal judge oversight of the company. The judge and California power regulators have rebuked PG&E for breaking promises to reduce the dangers posed by trees near its power lines.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The company has acknowledged that \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11881579/pge-power-line-may-have-sparked-dixie-fire-near-where-its-equipment-started-states-deadliest-blaze\">its equipment may have played a role in sparking this summer's Dixie Fire\u003c/a>, which has burned nearly 1 million acres and is now the second-largest wildfire in state history.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>PG&E emerged from bankruptcy last summer and negotiated a $13.5 billion settlement with some wildfire victims. But it still faces both civil and criminal actions, including charges from the Sonoma County district attorney's office over the 2019 Kincade Fire that forced nearly 200,000 people to evacuate.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the meantime, most of the roughly 70,000 victims who have filed claims for the devastation caused by PG&E’s past misdeeds still are awaiting payment from a trust created during the bankruptcy. The trust, which is run independently of PG&E, is facing a nearly $2 billion shortfall because half its funding came in company stock.\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11889925/pge-charged-with-manslaughter-in-california-wildfire-last-year-that-killed-4","authors":["byline_news_11889925"],"categories":["news_8"],"tags":["news_1092","news_140","news_24802","news_22895","news_4337","news_28652"],"featImg":"news_11889930","label":"news"},"news_11881207":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11881207","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11881207","score":null,"sort":[1626530439000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"what-lessons-can-california-learn-from-its-energy-crisis-20-years-ago","title":"What Lessons Can California Learn From Its Energy Crisis 20 Years Ago?","publishDate":1626530439,"format":"standard","headTitle":"KQED News","labelTerm":{"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp>Wildfires. Heat waves. A massive energy utility emerging from bankruptcy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California's electric grid is under considerable strain, with energy operators facing mounting challenges in consistently keeping the lights on for millions of residents.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But this is hardly the first time the state has faced an energy predicament.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Twenty years ago, in 2001, a recently deregulated California energy market suddenly found itself without enough juice to power the state. Rolling blackouts shut down businesses, PG&E filed for bankruptcy (the first time around), the state’s economy contracted and the administration of then-Gov. Gray Davis spiraled into crisis.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Enter Enron Corporation, a Houston-based energy company whose brokers created an artificial electricity shortage by taking power plants offline, thereby raising prices by 800% or more. The firm ultimately unraveled when whistleblowers revealed that its managers were cooking the books, but not before the company wreaked havoc on energy markets, including in California.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Early this week, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/forum/2010101884358/20-years-after-enron-and-rolling-blackouts-what-have-we-learned\">KQED Forum guest host Lily Jamali\u003c/a> spoke to former government officials and a veteran journalist to gauge what the state may have learned from that tumultuous period.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Forum guests included:\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Loretta Lynch\u003c/strong>, the former president of the California Public Utilities Commission\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Steve Weissman\u003c/strong>, an energy expert at the UC Berkeley Goldman School of Public Policy, who directed the CPUC's initial investigation into the 2001 energy crisis\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rebecca Smith\u003c/strong>, a Wall Street Journal energy reporter, who was a Pulitzer Prize finalist for her coverage of the 2001 crisis\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gray Davis\u003c/strong>, the former governor of California\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>The following interview has been edited for length and clarity.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>What was the energy crisis like from where you sat? It's easy to see now what a calamity this was. But was the gravity of the problem clear to you in those early days?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gov. Gray Davis: \u003c/strong>That was the whole problem, we couldn't figure out what was creating the blackouts. So six months after I left office, a video was released where Enron ordered that the power serving the city of San Francisco would go down and there were traffic accidents, and computers didn't work and all kinds of problems ensued.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The reason that date is important, it was four days after a whole bunch of us met in Washington [D.C.] to see if there couldn't be some sort of settlement arrangement. And I had two Republicans and two Democrats and all five of us rejected the only proposal that Enron and the other energy providers suggested, which was to raise rates ... five to 10 times what used to be paid for electricity.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And none of us wanted the ratepayers to bear that burden because the ratepayers were not pushing for energy deregulation. That was the energy company. So I suspected all along that Enron was up to no good. I never thought they would be ordering blackouts, but that's exactly what they did. And why did they do it? To drive up electricity prices.[pullquote size=\"medium\" align=\"right\" citation=\"Loretta Lynch, former CPUC president\"]'We created an electricity market that has become a casino for the electricity traders. And we all pay and pay and pay. We have to shut down that casino or protect our people and our businesses.'[/pullquote]\u003cstrong>Rebecca Smith\u003c/strong>: I was actually worried about the California market from the moment it was deregulated. That happened, ironically, on April Fools Day in 1998. I was worried because I had watched the Legislature put together Assembly Bill 1890, which was the bill that deregulated California's retail market. And after that law was passed, I interviewed people about the contents. I went through it literally line by line to try to understand everything that was included in that bill. And what I discovered was that the number of people in the Legislature whom I felt could actually show that they had a full understanding of that law, you could count the number of people on one hand. And I found that very worrisome, even though the thing passed nearly unanimously.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>It sounds like you had a fairly clear view of just how dire the situation was, perhaps sooner than a lot of other players.\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Loretta Lynch\u003c/strong>: That came from the private sector. I was a white-collar criminal defense lawyer before I joined the state government, so I knew a criminal when I saw one, and I knew that Enron was engaged in criminal activity. The question to me was, was it a criminal conspiracy? And it turned out, yes, it was. The problem is, the law that Rebecca Smith talked about almost let the criminals win. They designed the electricity market, which was brand new in the United States then. It was by them and they operated it. So not surprisingly, they got away with all sorts of fraud and it took government a really long time to catch up to them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The 16 years of Republicans before Gov. Davis was elected intentionally starved the regulatory agencies so that they would not be able to catch the crooks from 20 years ago, Enron and its cronies took advantage of California's new electricity markets to defraud those systems for profit. And that severely damaged California's economy and frankly, helped the historic recall. The political and economic fallout of their fraud was vast.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Did you get the sense that there was corruption involved in this on the part of the state Legislature and on the part of regulators? \u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rebecca Smith\u003c/strong>: No, I would not say I felt there was corruption, I felt what we saw was what we always see, which is that well-heeled interests that have money and that have an economic stake in outcomes are the most active forces in crafting legislation and participating in rulemaking proceedings. I mean, they're the ones who have the time and the money to be active participants.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside tag=\"energy\" label=\"Related coverage\"]So what we really need is to make sure that the organizations and agencies that are responsible for representing consumers, that they also receive the resources they need. We need the ratepayer advocate office of the U.S. and these other institutions to be well resourced. They have to be in the game. They have to be representing the rest of us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>How can we prevent future blackouts?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Loretta Lynch: \u003c/b>Other Western states and other local government-owned utilities within California are not blacking their customers out and are not charging these exorbitant prices. This isn't about climate change — the blackouts — because they all face droughts, wildfires and too little water to run their hydro systems.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The difference here is, California turned its electricity system over to a private corporation that answers to the feds. And we created an electricity market that has become a casino for the electricity traders. And we all pay and pay and pay. We have to shut down that casino or protect our people and our businesses.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>I know from speaking with fire survivors in places like Paradise, in Sonoma County, they want nothing more than to not have to have PG&E provide their power. How realistic is it, this idea of decentralizing or having people kind of do their own thing? \u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Steve Weissman\u003c/strong>: Well, as it happens, UC Irvine is now really on the cutting edge in terms of trying to develop its own internal reliability by creating what people refer to as a microgrid, which would have a lot of the features like renewable energy sources and storage and the ability to relate to the bigger grid, but to isolate when there's a problem on the bigger grid.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There's a difference in terms of what reliability means to different kinds of customers. And there is now, fully, the technological capability of having these microgrids not only serving something as holistic as one university campus, but serving broader communities, taking care of emergency services within a particular city, for instance.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But we have a challenge in the state law, which was designed to protect the monopoly status of traditional utilities and doesn't allow for this kind of, what I'd call, a community-based microgrid system, to be installed without being encumbered with all the regulations that traditional utilities would have. And efforts to deal with this in the Legislature have been quashed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I think there's a tremendous amount of concern, especially among the utility workers' representatives, that this would somehow lead to a loss of good union jobs. And I think that's not a necessary result.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But in the meantime, the state is spending, through the energy commission, millions of dollars to promote various kinds of pilot examples of these microgrids. And I think there's no doubt that you could not only improve local reliability by having that kind of structure, but you also could improve the reliability of the broader grid by having many, many decentralized energy sources to work with.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Listen to \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/forum/2010101884358/20-years-after-enron-and-rolling-blackouts-what-have-we-learned\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">KQED Forum\u003c/a> to hear the full episode.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"What California can learn from its fiasco 20 years ago, when it suddenly found itself without enough energy to keep the lights on, prompting rolling blackouts.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1626484055,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":34,"wordCount":1515},"headData":{"title":"What Lessons Can California Learn From Its Energy Crisis 20 Years Ago? | KQED","description":"What California can learn from its fiasco 20 years ago, when it suddenly found itself without enough energy to keep the lights on, prompting rolling blackouts.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"What Lessons Can California Learn From Its Energy Crisis 20 Years Ago?","datePublished":"2021-07-17T14:00:39.000Z","dateModified":"2021-07-17T01:07:35.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"Y","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"disqusIdentifier":"11881207 https://ww2.kqed.org/news/?p=11881207","disqusUrl":"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/2021/07/17/what-lessons-can-california-learn-from-its-energy-crisis-20-years-ago/","disqusTitle":"What Lessons Can California Learn From Its Energy Crisis 20 Years Ago?","audioUrl":"https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC7779908653.mp3","path":"/news/11881207/what-lessons-can-california-learn-from-its-energy-crisis-20-years-ago","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Wildfires. Heat waves. A massive energy utility emerging from bankruptcy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California's electric grid is under considerable strain, with energy operators facing mounting challenges in consistently keeping the lights on for millions of residents.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But this is hardly the first time the state has faced an energy predicament.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Twenty years ago, in 2001, a recently deregulated California energy market suddenly found itself without enough juice to power the state. Rolling blackouts shut down businesses, PG&E filed for bankruptcy (the first time around), the state’s economy contracted and the administration of then-Gov. Gray Davis spiraled into crisis.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Enter Enron Corporation, a Houston-based energy company whose brokers created an artificial electricity shortage by taking power plants offline, thereby raising prices by 800% or more. The firm ultimately unraveled when whistleblowers revealed that its managers were cooking the books, but not before the company wreaked havoc on energy markets, including in California.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Early this week, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/forum/2010101884358/20-years-after-enron-and-rolling-blackouts-what-have-we-learned\">KQED Forum guest host Lily Jamali\u003c/a> spoke to former government officials and a veteran journalist to gauge what the state may have learned from that tumultuous period.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Forum guests included:\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Loretta Lynch\u003c/strong>, the former president of the California Public Utilities Commission\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Steve Weissman\u003c/strong>, an energy expert at the UC Berkeley Goldman School of Public Policy, who directed the CPUC's initial investigation into the 2001 energy crisis\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rebecca Smith\u003c/strong>, a Wall Street Journal energy reporter, who was a Pulitzer Prize finalist for her coverage of the 2001 crisis\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gray Davis\u003c/strong>, the former governor of California\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>The following interview has been edited for length and clarity.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>What was the energy crisis like from where you sat? It's easy to see now what a calamity this was. But was the gravity of the problem clear to you in those early days?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gov. Gray Davis: \u003c/strong>That was the whole problem, we couldn't figure out what was creating the blackouts. So six months after I left office, a video was released where Enron ordered that the power serving the city of San Francisco would go down and there were traffic accidents, and computers didn't work and all kinds of problems ensued.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The reason that date is important, it was four days after a whole bunch of us met in Washington [D.C.] to see if there couldn't be some sort of settlement arrangement. And I had two Republicans and two Democrats and all five of us rejected the only proposal that Enron and the other energy providers suggested, which was to raise rates ... five to 10 times what used to be paid for electricity.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And none of us wanted the ratepayers to bear that burden because the ratepayers were not pushing for energy deregulation. That was the energy company. So I suspected all along that Enron was up to no good. I never thought they would be ordering blackouts, but that's exactly what they did. And why did they do it? To drive up electricity prices.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"'We created an electricity market that has become a casino for the electricity traders. And we all pay and pay and pay. We have to shut down that casino or protect our people and our businesses.'","name":"pullquote","attributes":{"named":{"size":"medium","align":"right","citation":"Loretta Lynch, former CPUC president","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rebecca Smith\u003c/strong>: I was actually worried about the California market from the moment it was deregulated. That happened, ironically, on April Fools Day in 1998. I was worried because I had watched the Legislature put together Assembly Bill 1890, which was the bill that deregulated California's retail market. And after that law was passed, I interviewed people about the contents. I went through it literally line by line to try to understand everything that was included in that bill. And what I discovered was that the number of people in the Legislature whom I felt could actually show that they had a full understanding of that law, you could count the number of people on one hand. And I found that very worrisome, even though the thing passed nearly unanimously.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>It sounds like you had a fairly clear view of just how dire the situation was, perhaps sooner than a lot of other players.\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Loretta Lynch\u003c/strong>: That came from the private sector. I was a white-collar criminal defense lawyer before I joined the state government, so I knew a criminal when I saw one, and I knew that Enron was engaged in criminal activity. The question to me was, was it a criminal conspiracy? And it turned out, yes, it was. The problem is, the law that Rebecca Smith talked about almost let the criminals win. They designed the electricity market, which was brand new in the United States then. It was by them and they operated it. So not surprisingly, they got away with all sorts of fraud and it took government a really long time to catch up to them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The 16 years of Republicans before Gov. Davis was elected intentionally starved the regulatory agencies so that they would not be able to catch the crooks from 20 years ago, Enron and its cronies took advantage of California's new electricity markets to defraud those systems for profit. And that severely damaged California's economy and frankly, helped the historic recall. The political and economic fallout of their fraud was vast.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Did you get the sense that there was corruption involved in this on the part of the state Legislature and on the part of regulators? \u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rebecca Smith\u003c/strong>: No, I would not say I felt there was corruption, I felt what we saw was what we always see, which is that well-heeled interests that have money and that have an economic stake in outcomes are the most active forces in crafting legislation and participating in rulemaking proceedings. I mean, they're the ones who have the time and the money to be active participants.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"tag":"energy","label":"Related coverage "},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>So what we really need is to make sure that the organizations and agencies that are responsible for representing consumers, that they also receive the resources they need. We need the ratepayer advocate office of the U.S. and these other institutions to be well resourced. They have to be in the game. They have to be representing the rest of us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>How can we prevent future blackouts?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Loretta Lynch: \u003c/b>Other Western states and other local government-owned utilities within California are not blacking their customers out and are not charging these exorbitant prices. This isn't about climate change — the blackouts — because they all face droughts, wildfires and too little water to run their hydro systems.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The difference here is, California turned its electricity system over to a private corporation that answers to the feds. And we created an electricity market that has become a casino for the electricity traders. And we all pay and pay and pay. We have to shut down that casino or protect our people and our businesses.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>I know from speaking with fire survivors in places like Paradise, in Sonoma County, they want nothing more than to not have to have PG&E provide their power. How realistic is it, this idea of decentralizing or having people kind of do their own thing? \u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Steve Weissman\u003c/strong>: Well, as it happens, UC Irvine is now really on the cutting edge in terms of trying to develop its own internal reliability by creating what people refer to as a microgrid, which would have a lot of the features like renewable energy sources and storage and the ability to relate to the bigger grid, but to isolate when there's a problem on the bigger grid.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There's a difference in terms of what reliability means to different kinds of customers. And there is now, fully, the technological capability of having these microgrids not only serving something as holistic as one university campus, but serving broader communities, taking care of emergency services within a particular city, for instance.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But we have a challenge in the state law, which was designed to protect the monopoly status of traditional utilities and doesn't allow for this kind of, what I'd call, a community-based microgrid system, to be installed without being encumbered with all the regulations that traditional utilities would have. And efforts to deal with this in the Legislature have been quashed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I think there's a tremendous amount of concern, especially among the utility workers' representatives, that this would somehow lead to a loss of good union jobs. And I think that's not a necessary result.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But in the meantime, the state is spending, through the energy commission, millions of dollars to promote various kinds of pilot examples of these microgrids. And I think there's no doubt that you could not only improve local reliability by having that kind of structure, but you also could improve the reliability of the broader grid by having many, many decentralized energy sources to work with.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Listen to \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/forum/2010101884358/20-years-after-enron-and-rolling-blackouts-what-have-we-learned\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">KQED Forum\u003c/a> to hear the full episode.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11881207/what-lessons-can-california-learn-from-its-energy-crisis-20-years-ago","authors":["11690"],"categories":["news_8","news_13"],"tags":["news_21973","news_15","news_29392","news_1092","news_140"],"featImg":"news_11881165","label":"news"},"news_11873113":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11873113","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11873113","score":null,"sort":[1620860127000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"help-us-investigate-pges-power-lines","title":"Help Us Investigate PG&E’s Power Lines","publishDate":1620860127,"format":"standard","headTitle":"Help Us Investigate PG&E’s Power Lines | KQED","labelTerm":{"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp>Pacific Gas and Electric Company has sparked some of the state’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11808166/pge-pleads-guilty-to-involuntary-manslaughter-in-deadly-camp-fire\">deadliest wildfires\u003c/a>. The utility pleaded guilty to 84 counts of \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11808166/pge-pleads-guilty-to-involuntary-manslaughter-in-deadly-camp-fire\">involuntary manslaughter\u003c/a> after the 2018 Camp Fire. It faces \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11868261/sonoma-county-files-criminal-charges-against-pge-for-starting-2019-kincade-fire\">felony charges\u003c/a> in connection with the 2019 Kincade Fire in Sonoma County. And it is also \u003ca href=\"https://www.redding.com/story/news/local/2021/03/22/zogg-fire-caused-tree-touching-pge-lines-cal-fire-shasta/6960912002/\">under criminal investigation\u003c/a> for last September’s Zogg Fire in Shasta County, a blaze ignited by a power line that killed four people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That record led a federal judge earlier this year to declare that “PG&E has been a terror — T-E-R-R-O-R — to the people of California.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Epic fires throughout California in recent years have highlighted the urgency of preparation, and exposed vast vulnerabilities. Heading into wildfire season, which given the already hot, dry conditions this spring, is expected to potentially be among the most dangerous on record, we wanted to get a better understanding of how dangerous PG&E’s power lines really are.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So we created a map that shows the riskiest power lines in PG&E’s grid — based on data from a \u003ca href=\"https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/20612390/cpuc-wildfire-safety-division-audit-of-pge-enhanced-vegetation-management.pdf\">recent audit\u003c/a> by the California Public Utilities Commission Wildfire Safety Division — and layered it on top of areas that the CPUC has identified for “extreme” and “elevated” wildfire danger for this year. Our map also includes the electric circuits where PG&E believes there is \u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/20701429-revised-pge-corrective-action-plan_050721-1\">high risk\u003c/a> of a tree igniting by catching sparks from a power line or hitting a utility pole.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch3>At-Risk Power Lines in Vulnerable Fire Zones\u003c/h3>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2021/05/Screen-Shot-2023-06-20-at-5.44.25-PM.png\">\u003cimg decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-11953485\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2021/05/Screen-Shot-2023-06-20-at-5.44.25-PM.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"1756\" height=\"1238\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2021/05/Screen-Shot-2023-06-20-at-5.44.25-PM.png 1756w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2021/05/Screen-Shot-2023-06-20-at-5.44.25-PM-800x564.png 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2021/05/Screen-Shot-2023-06-20-at-5.44.25-PM-1020x719.png 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2021/05/Screen-Shot-2023-06-20-at-5.44.25-PM-160x113.png 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2021/05/Screen-Shot-2023-06-20-at-5.44.25-PM-1536x1083.png 1536w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1756px) 100vw, 1756px\">\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\nNow we want \u003cem>your\u003c/em> help assessing wildfire risk. If you are concerned about the safety of power lines in your area, please email us pictures of the lines and the street address or cross street of where it is located, along with your contact information, to \u003ca href=\"mailto:fires@kqed.org\">fires@kqed.org\u003c/a>. We promise not to publish or reveal any personal information without securing your approval first. We will assess your photographs for compliance with state law and may share them, along with the geographic information you provide, with PG&E, Cal Fire and the CPUC.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch3>What PG&E Is Required to Do\u003c/h3>\n\u003cp>Here’s what PG&E is required to do, and what you should look for:\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In its audit, the CPUC said PG&E “appears to not be sufficiently prioritizing or reducing the risk of wildfire ignition.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The commission, in January, said PG&E had failed to do any vegetation mitigation work on many of its highest-risk circuits, including some areas of wine country north of San Francisco, the Sierra Foothills and the Santa Cruz Mountains.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In an emailed statement in response to the CPUC audit, PG&E spokesperson Lynsey Paulo said, “We have more to do, and we are committed to doing it the right way.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>On May 6, the utility issued a 196-page “\u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/20701429-revised-pge-corrective-action-plan_050721-1\">corrective action plan\u003c/a>” acknowledging that its vegetation management strategy “had gaps and shortcomings.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The company said it had “undertaken efforts and initiatives” to improve the safety of its grid.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>State law requires PG&E to follow two basic rules during the state-designated fire season:\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11873390\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\" style=\"max-width: 456px\">\u003ca href=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2021/05/pge_final.png\">\u003cimg decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11873390\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2021/05/pge_final.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"456\" height=\"604\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2021/05/pge_final.png 456w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2021/05/pge_final-160x212.png 160w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 456px) 100vw, 456px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">PG&E’s vegetation maintenance regulations. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of PG&E)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>1. Keep tree limbs away from electric wires\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>All foliage must be cleared within 4 feet of power lines that carry between 2,400 and 72,000 volts (most regular electric lines). That rule extends to 10 feet for higher-voltage lines and requires the removal of “dead, diseased, defective and dying trees” that could fall onto the lines.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>2. Maintain distance between trees and utility poles\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>PG&E \u003ca href=\"https://www.pge.com/en_US/safety/yard-safety/powerlines-and-trees/laws-and-regulations.page\">is required\u003c/a> to maintain a firebreak of at least 10 feet from utility poles, and tree limbs within that radius that are up to 8 feet above the ground must be removed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In other words, even if a tree trunk is more than 10 feet away from a utility pole, its low-lying branches (less than 8 feet off the ground) should not be within that firebreak radius, so as to prevent the pole itself from catching fire.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Both of these rules include some exceptions, and only apply in locations that are part of the “\u003ca href=\"https://www.arcgis.com/apps/mapviewer/index.html?layers=5ac1dae3cb2544629a845d9a19e83991\">State Responsibility Area\u003c/a>,” which includes most parts of California at heightened risk of wildfire that are not on federal land.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch3>Inspecting the Lines, Getting Results\u003c/h3>\n\u003cp>Before asking you to photograph the lines, we tried it out ourselves. In late April, we sent a reporter — Marc Albert of Northern California Public Media — out to drive a high-risk section of the grid in western Sonoma County, an area of “extreme” wildfire risk, according to Cal Fire. He went armed with a camera and copies of government regulations for how those lines are to be kept safe.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Albert found a number of power lines that appeared to violate these regulations. On Harrison Grade and Green Valley roads northwest of Sebastopol, he found oaks and redwoods with branches that appeared precariously close to electric current.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Some of the oak trees were also very close to the utility poles, despite the 10-foot radius requirement. And some low-lying tree branches also extended into that safety zone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside label=\"related coverage\" tag=\"california-wildfires\"]On nearby Joy Road, Albert found additional concerning conditions: a live oak tree so close to utility poles its branches practically wrapped around them. The photographs he took concerned the independent fire experts we consulted, so we showed them to PG&E.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Paulo, the PG&E spokesperson, said she shared the photos with her company’s vegetation management unit, who said the vegetation proximity was in compliance with all relevant state laws.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Paulo said a “laser rangefinder” was used to determine that the branches were farther than 4 feet from the lines, but nevertheless ordered a work crew to trim them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In response to the lack of space between the trees and the poles, Paulo said the poles we photographed were not covered by state law, explaining that a \u003ca href=\"https://osfm.fire.ca.gov/media/3vqj2sft/2021-power-line-fire-prevention-field-guide-ada-final_jf_20210125.pdf\">Cal Fire rule\u003c/a> exempted equipment that “is completely sealed and liquid filled.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We contacted both Cal Fire and the CPUC seeking clarity on this point.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The equipment I saw and photographed appeared to be a standard 12KV line,” Albert wrote to the CPUC. “I did not see anything that would indicate to me that the equipment was either ‘completely sealed’ or ‘liquid filled.’ ”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]“We will look into this,” CPUC spokesperson Terrie Prosper wrote back in response.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Email any photos you take, together with your location to \u003ca href=\"mailto:fires@kqed.org\">fires@kqed.org\u003c/a>. Note: If you smell natural gas, see any downed power lines or suspect another emergency situation, leave the area immediately and call 911. Then call PG&E at 1-800-743-5000.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This story is a collaborative project of NPR’s California Newsroom, including Northern California Public Media, CapRadio and KQED. Aaron Glantz is senior investigations editor for NPR’s California Newsroom, where George LeVines is a data reporter. Marc Albert is a reporter for Northern California Public Media. Lisa Pickoff-White is a data journalist at KQED. Chris Hagan is managing editor for digital content at CapRadio.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"California’s public radio stations are investigating the safety of Pacific Gas & Electric Company’s power lines ahead of wildfire season. We want your help.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1687301102,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":31,"wordCount":1242},"headData":{"title":"Help Us Investigate PG&E’s Power Lines | KQED","description":"California’s public radio stations are investigating the safety of Pacific Gas & Electric Company’s power lines ahead of wildfire season. We want your help.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"Help Us Investigate PG&E’s Power Lines","datePublished":"2021-05-12T22:55:27.000Z","dateModified":"2023-06-20T22:45:02.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"Y","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"audioUrl":"https://traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/0af137ef-751e-4b19-a055-aaef00d2d578/ffca7e9f-6831-41c5-bcaf-aaef00f5a073/4d22ad33-d1ad-4f7b-9060-ad25010f9a2b/audio.mp3","nprByline":"Aaron Glantz, Marc Albert","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","showOnAuthorArchivePages":"No","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11873113/help-us-investigate-pges-power-lines","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Pacific Gas and Electric Company has sparked some of the state’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11808166/pge-pleads-guilty-to-involuntary-manslaughter-in-deadly-camp-fire\">deadliest wildfires\u003c/a>. The utility pleaded guilty to 84 counts of \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11808166/pge-pleads-guilty-to-involuntary-manslaughter-in-deadly-camp-fire\">involuntary manslaughter\u003c/a> after the 2018 Camp Fire. It faces \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11868261/sonoma-county-files-criminal-charges-against-pge-for-starting-2019-kincade-fire\">felony charges\u003c/a> in connection with the 2019 Kincade Fire in Sonoma County. And it is also \u003ca href=\"https://www.redding.com/story/news/local/2021/03/22/zogg-fire-caused-tree-touching-pge-lines-cal-fire-shasta/6960912002/\">under criminal investigation\u003c/a> for last September’s Zogg Fire in Shasta County, a blaze ignited by a power line that killed four people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That record led a federal judge earlier this year to declare that “PG&E has been a terror — T-E-R-R-O-R — to the people of California.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Epic fires throughout California in recent years have highlighted the urgency of preparation, and exposed vast vulnerabilities. Heading into wildfire season, which given the already hot, dry conditions this spring, is expected to potentially be among the most dangerous on record, we wanted to get a better understanding of how dangerous PG&E’s power lines really are.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So we created a map that shows the riskiest power lines in PG&E’s grid — based on data from a \u003ca href=\"https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/20612390/cpuc-wildfire-safety-division-audit-of-pge-enhanced-vegetation-management.pdf\">recent audit\u003c/a> by the California Public Utilities Commission Wildfire Safety Division — and layered it on top of areas that the CPUC has identified for “extreme” and “elevated” wildfire danger for this year. Our map also includes the electric circuits where PG&E believes there is \u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/20701429-revised-pge-corrective-action-plan_050721-1\">high risk\u003c/a> of a tree igniting by catching sparks from a power line or hitting a utility pole.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch3>At-Risk Power Lines in Vulnerable Fire Zones\u003c/h3>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2021/05/Screen-Shot-2023-06-20-at-5.44.25-PM.png\">\u003cimg decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-11953485\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2021/05/Screen-Shot-2023-06-20-at-5.44.25-PM.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"1756\" height=\"1238\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2021/05/Screen-Shot-2023-06-20-at-5.44.25-PM.png 1756w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2021/05/Screen-Shot-2023-06-20-at-5.44.25-PM-800x564.png 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2021/05/Screen-Shot-2023-06-20-at-5.44.25-PM-1020x719.png 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2021/05/Screen-Shot-2023-06-20-at-5.44.25-PM-160x113.png 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2021/05/Screen-Shot-2023-06-20-at-5.44.25-PM-1536x1083.png 1536w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1756px) 100vw, 1756px\">\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\nNow we want \u003cem>your\u003c/em> help assessing wildfire risk. If you are concerned about the safety of power lines in your area, please email us pictures of the lines and the street address or cross street of where it is located, along with your contact information, to \u003ca href=\"mailto:fires@kqed.org\">fires@kqed.org\u003c/a>. We promise not to publish or reveal any personal information without securing your approval first. We will assess your photographs for compliance with state law and may share them, along with the geographic information you provide, with PG&E, Cal Fire and the CPUC.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch3>What PG&E Is Required to Do\u003c/h3>\n\u003cp>Here’s what PG&E is required to do, and what you should look for:\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In its audit, the CPUC said PG&E “appears to not be sufficiently prioritizing or reducing the risk of wildfire ignition.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The commission, in January, said PG&E had failed to do any vegetation mitigation work on many of its highest-risk circuits, including some areas of wine country north of San Francisco, the Sierra Foothills and the Santa Cruz Mountains.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In an emailed statement in response to the CPUC audit, PG&E spokesperson Lynsey Paulo said, “We have more to do, and we are committed to doing it the right way.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>On May 6, the utility issued a 196-page “\u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/20701429-revised-pge-corrective-action-plan_050721-1\">corrective action plan\u003c/a>” acknowledging that its vegetation management strategy “had gaps and shortcomings.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The company said it had “undertaken efforts and initiatives” to improve the safety of its grid.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>State law requires PG&E to follow two basic rules during the state-designated fire season:\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11873390\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\" style=\"max-width: 456px\">\u003ca href=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2021/05/pge_final.png\">\u003cimg decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11873390\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2021/05/pge_final.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"456\" height=\"604\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2021/05/pge_final.png 456w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2021/05/pge_final-160x212.png 160w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 456px) 100vw, 456px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">PG&E’s vegetation maintenance regulations. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of PG&E)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>1. Keep tree limbs away from electric wires\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>All foliage must be cleared within 4 feet of power lines that carry between 2,400 and 72,000 volts (most regular electric lines). That rule extends to 10 feet for higher-voltage lines and requires the removal of “dead, diseased, defective and dying trees” that could fall onto the lines.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>2. Maintain distance between trees and utility poles\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>PG&E \u003ca href=\"https://www.pge.com/en_US/safety/yard-safety/powerlines-and-trees/laws-and-regulations.page\">is required\u003c/a> to maintain a firebreak of at least 10 feet from utility poles, and tree limbs within that radius that are up to 8 feet above the ground must be removed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In other words, even if a tree trunk is more than 10 feet away from a utility pole, its low-lying branches (less than 8 feet off the ground) should not be within that firebreak radius, so as to prevent the pole itself from catching fire.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Both of these rules include some exceptions, and only apply in locations that are part of the “\u003ca href=\"https://www.arcgis.com/apps/mapviewer/index.html?layers=5ac1dae3cb2544629a845d9a19e83991\">State Responsibility Area\u003c/a>,” which includes most parts of California at heightened risk of wildfire that are not on federal land.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch3>Inspecting the Lines, Getting Results\u003c/h3>\n\u003cp>Before asking you to photograph the lines, we tried it out ourselves. In late April, we sent a reporter — Marc Albert of Northern California Public Media — out to drive a high-risk section of the grid in western Sonoma County, an area of “extreme” wildfire risk, according to Cal Fire. He went armed with a camera and copies of government regulations for how those lines are to be kept safe.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Albert found a number of power lines that appeared to violate these regulations. On Harrison Grade and Green Valley roads northwest of Sebastopol, he found oaks and redwoods with branches that appeared precariously close to electric current.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Some of the oak trees were also very close to the utility poles, despite the 10-foot radius requirement. And some low-lying tree branches also extended into that safety zone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"label":"related coverage ","tag":"california-wildfires"},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>On nearby Joy Road, Albert found additional concerning conditions: a live oak tree so close to utility poles its branches practically wrapped around them. The photographs he took concerned the independent fire experts we consulted, so we showed them to PG&E.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Paulo, the PG&E spokesperson, said she shared the photos with her company’s vegetation management unit, who said the vegetation proximity was in compliance with all relevant state laws.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Paulo said a “laser rangefinder” was used to determine that the branches were farther than 4 feet from the lines, but nevertheless ordered a work crew to trim them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In response to the lack of space between the trees and the poles, Paulo said the poles we photographed were not covered by state law, explaining that a \u003ca href=\"https://osfm.fire.ca.gov/media/3vqj2sft/2021-power-line-fire-prevention-field-guide-ada-final_jf_20210125.pdf\">Cal Fire rule\u003c/a> exempted equipment that “is completely sealed and liquid filled.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We contacted both Cal Fire and the CPUC seeking clarity on this point.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The equipment I saw and photographed appeared to be a standard 12KV line,” Albert wrote to the CPUC. “I did not see anything that would indicate to me that the equipment was either ‘completely sealed’ or ‘liquid filled.’ ”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>“We will look into this,” CPUC spokesperson Terrie Prosper wrote back in response.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Email any photos you take, together with your location to \u003ca href=\"mailto:fires@kqed.org\">fires@kqed.org\u003c/a>. Note: If you smell natural gas, see any downed power lines or suspect another emergency situation, leave the area immediately and call 911. Then call PG&E at 1-800-743-5000.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This story is a collaborative project of NPR’s California Newsroom, including Northern California Public Media, CapRadio and KQED. Aaron Glantz is senior investigations editor for NPR’s California Newsroom, where George LeVines is a data reporter. Marc Albert is a reporter for Northern California Public Media. Lisa Pickoff-White is a data journalist at KQED. Chris Hagan is managing editor for digital content at CapRadio.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11873113/help-us-investigate-pges-power-lines","authors":["byline_news_11873113"],"categories":["news_8"],"tags":["news_6383","news_1066","news_20341","news_1092","news_140"],"featImg":"news_11873357","label":"news"}},"programsReducer":{"possible":{"id":"possible","title":"Possible","info":"Possible is hosted by entrepreneur Reid Hoffman and writer Aria Finger. Together in Possible, Hoffman and Finger lead enlightening discussions about building a brighter collective future. 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And you join us on the journey to find the answers.","imageSrc":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Bay-Curious-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg","imageAlt":"\"KQED Bay Curious","officialWebsiteLink":"/news/series/baycurious","meta":{"site":"news","source":"kqed","order":"4"},"link":"/podcasts/baycurious","subscribe":{"apple":"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/bay-curious/id1172473406","npr":"https://www.npr.org/podcasts/500557090/bay-curious","rss":"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/category/bay-curious-podcast/feed/podcast","google":"https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly93dzIua3FlZC5vcmcvbmV3cy9jYXRlZ29yeS9iYXktY3VyaW91cy1wb2RjYXN0L2ZlZWQvcG9kY2FzdA","stitcher":"https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/kqed/bay-curious","spotify":"https://open.spotify.com/show/6O76IdmhixfijmhTZLIJ8k"}},"bbc-world-service":{"id":"bbc-world-service","title":"BBC World Service","info":"The day's top stories from BBC News compiled twice daily in the week, once at weekends.","airtime":"MON-FRI 9pm-10pm, TUE-FRI 1am-2am","imageSrc":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/BBC-World-Service-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg","officialWebsiteLink":"https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/live:bbc_world_service","meta":{"site":"news","source":"BBC World Service"},"link":"/radio/program/bbc-world-service","subscribe":{"apple":"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/global-news-podcast/id135067274?mt=2","tuneIn":"https://tunein.com/radio/BBC-World-Service-p455581/","rss":"https://podcasts.files.bbci.co.uk/p02nq0gn.rss"}},"code-switch-life-kit":{"id":"code-switch-life-kit","title":"Code Switch / Life Kit","info":"\u003cem>Code Switch\u003c/em>, which listeners will hear in the first part of the hour, has fearless and much-needed conversations about race. 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