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Mina grew up in St. John’s, Newfoundland.","avatar":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/145ce657a2d08cb86d93686beb958982?s=600&d=blank&r=g","twitter":"mkimreporter","facebook":null,"instagram":null,"linkedin":null,"sites":[{"site":"news","roles":["contributor"]},{"site":"stateofhealth","roles":["author"]},{"site":"forum","roles":["editor"]}],"headData":{"title":"Mina Kim | KQED","description":"Host, Forum","ogImgSrc":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/145ce657a2d08cb86d93686beb958982?s=600&d=blank&r=g","twImgSrc":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/145ce657a2d08cb86d93686beb958982?s=600&d=blank&r=g"},"isLoading":false,"link":"/author/minakim"},"markfiore":{"type":"authors","id":"3236","meta":{"index":"authors_1591205172","id":"3236","found":true},"name":"Mark Fiore","firstName":"Mark","lastName":"Fiore","slug":"markfiore","email":"mark@markfiore.com","display_author_email":false,"staff_mastheads":["news"],"title":"KQED News Cartoonist","bio":"\u003ca href=\"http://www.MarkFiore.com\">MarkFiore.com\u003c/a> | \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/markfiore\">Follow on Twitter\u003c/a> | \u003ca href=\"https://www.facebook.com/pages/Mark-Fiore-Animated-Political-Cartoons/94451707396?ref=bookmarks\">Facebook\u003c/a> | \u003ca href=\"mailto:mark@markfiore.com\">email\u003c/a>\r\n\r\nPulitzer Prize-winner, Mark Fiore, who the Wall Street Journal has called “the undisputed guru of the form,” creates animated political cartoons in San Francisco, where his work has been featured regularly on the San Francisco Chronicle’s web site, SFGate.com. His work has appeared on Newsweek.com, Slate.com, CBSNews.com, MotherJones.com, DailyKos.com and NPR’s web site. Fiore’s political animation has appeared on CNN, Frontline, Bill Moyers Journal, Salon.com and cable and broadcast outlets across the globe.\r\n\r\nBeginning his professional life by drawing traditional political cartoons for newspapers, Fiore’s work appeared in publications ranging from the Washington Post to the Los Angeles Times. In the late 1990s, he began to experiment with animating political cartoons and, after a short stint at the San Jose Mercury News as their staff cartoonist, Fiore devoted all his energies to animation.\r\nGrowing up in California, Fiore also spent a good portion of his life in the backwoods of Idaho. It was this combination that shaped him politically. Mark majored in political science at Colorado College, where, in a perfect send-off for a cartoonist, he received his diploma in 1991 as commencement speaker Dick Cheney smiled approvingly.\r\nMark Fiore was awarded the Pulitzer Prize for political cartooning in 2010, a Robert F. Kennedy Journalism Award in 2004 and has twice received an Online Journalism Award for commentary from the Online News Association (2002, 2008). Fiore has received two awards for his work in new media from the National Cartoonists Society (2001, 2002), and in 2006 received The James Madison Freedom of Information Award from The Society of Professional Journalists.","avatar":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/fc4e2a612b15b67bad0c6f0e1db4ca9b?s=600&d=blank&r=g","twitter":"MarkFiore","facebook":null,"instagram":"https://www.instagram.com/markfiore/?hl=en","linkedin":null,"sites":[{"site":"arts","roles":["contributor"]},{"site":"news","roles":["editor"]},{"site":"futureofyou","roles":["editor"]},{"site":"science","roles":["editor"]}],"headData":{"title":"Mark Fiore | KQED","description":"KQED News Cartoonist","ogImgSrc":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/fc4e2a612b15b67bad0c6f0e1db4ca9b?s=600&d=blank&r=g","twImgSrc":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/fc4e2a612b15b67bad0c6f0e1db4ca9b?s=600&d=blank&r=g"},"isLoading":false,"link":"/author/markfiore"},"bwatt":{"type":"authors","id":"11238","meta":{"index":"authors_1591205172","id":"11238","found":true},"name":"Brian Watt","firstName":"Brian","lastName":"Watt","slug":"bwatt","email":"bwatt@KQED.org","display_author_email":false,"staff_mastheads":["news"],"title":"Morning News Anchor","bio":"Brian Watt is KQED's morning radio news anchor. He joined the KQED News team in April of 2016. Prior to that, he worked as a Reporter for KPCC in Los Angeles and a producer at \u003cem>Marketplace.\u003c/em>\r\n\r\nDuring eight years at KPCC, Brian covered business and economics, and his work won several awards. In 2008, he won the Los Angeles Press Club’s first-place award for Business and Financial Reporting, Broadcast. He’s also received honorable mention and been first runner up for the Press Club’s Radio Journalist of the Year. He won two Golden Mike awards from the Radio and TV News Association of Southern California.\r\n\r\nBrian holds degrees in theater from Yale University and the Sorbonne, and has worked as an actor in France, Italy, Brazil, Hungary and . . . Hollywood. He appeared in a few television shows, including \u003cem>The West Wing, Judging Amy\u003c/em> and \u003cem>The District.\u003c/em>\r\n\r\nEmail: bwatt@KQED.org Twitter: @RadioBWatt","avatar":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/55393ff57ed34e2be773ba4789dd6a19?s=600&d=blank&r=g","twitter":"@RadioBWatt","facebook":null,"instagram":null,"linkedin":null,"sites":[{"site":"arts","roles":["contributor"]},{"site":"news","roles":["editor"]}],"headData":{"title":"Brian Watt | KQED","description":"Morning News Anchor","ogImgSrc":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/55393ff57ed34e2be773ba4789dd6a19?s=600&d=blank&r=g","twImgSrc":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/55393ff57ed34e2be773ba4789dd6a19?s=600&d=blank&r=g"},"isLoading":false,"link":"/author/bwatt"},"vrancano":{"type":"authors","id":"11276","meta":{"index":"authors_1591205172","id":"11276","found":true},"name":"Vanessa Rancaño","firstName":"Vanessa","lastName":"Rancaño","slug":"vrancano","email":"vrancano@kqed.org","display_author_email":false,"staff_mastheads":["news"],"title":"Reporter, Housing","bio":"Vanessa Rancaño reports on housing and homelessness for KQED. She’s also covered education for the station and reported from the Central Valley. Her work has aired across public radio, from flagship national news shows to longform narrative podcasts. Before taking up a mic, she worked as a freelance print journalist. She’s been recognized with a number of national and regional awards. Vanessa grew up in California's Central Valley. She's a former NPR Kroc Fellow, and a graduate of the UC Berkeley Graduate School of Journalism.","avatar":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/f6c0fc5d391c78710bcfc723f0636ef6?s=600&d=blank&r=g","twitter":"vanessarancano","facebook":null,"instagram":null,"linkedin":null,"sites":[{"site":"arts","roles":["editor"]},{"site":"news","roles":["editor"]}],"headData":{"title":"Vanessa Rancaño | KQED","description":"Reporter, Housing","ogImgSrc":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/f6c0fc5d391c78710bcfc723f0636ef6?s=600&d=blank&r=g","twImgSrc":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/f6c0fc5d391c78710bcfc723f0636ef6?s=600&d=blank&r=g"},"isLoading":false,"link":"/author/vrancano"},"lsarah":{"type":"authors","id":"11626","meta":{"index":"authors_1591205172","id":"11626","found":true},"name":"Lakshmi Sarah","firstName":"Lakshmi","lastName":"Sarah","slug":"lsarah","email":"lsarah@kqed.org","display_author_email":false,"staff_mastheads":["news"],"title":"Digital Producer","bio":"Lakshmi Sarah is an educator, author and journalist with a focus on innovative storytelling. 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She leads social media, newsletter, and engagement efforts for KQED Science content. Prior to this role, she played a key role as project manager for NSF's \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/crackingthecode\">\u003cem>Cracking the Code: Influencing Millennial Science Engagement\u003c/em> \u003c/a>audience research. Prior to joining KQED Science, Sarah worked in a brand new role as Digital Marketing Strategist at WPSU Penn State.","avatar":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/085f65bb82616965f87e3d12f8550931?s=600&d=blank&r=g","twitter":"sarahkmohamad","facebook":null,"instagram":null,"linkedin":null,"sites":[{"site":"arts","roles":["editor"]},{"site":"news","roles":["editor"]},{"site":"about","roles":["editor"]},{"site":"science","roles":["editor"]}],"headData":{"title":"Sarah Mohamad | KQED","description":"Engagement Producer and Reporter, KQED Science","ogImgSrc":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/085f65bb82616965f87e3d12f8550931?s=600&d=blank&r=g","twImgSrc":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/085f65bb82616965f87e3d12f8550931?s=600&d=blank&r=g"},"isLoading":false,"link":"/author/smohamad"}},"breakingNewsReducer":{},"campaignFinanceReducer":{},"firebase":{"requesting":{},"requested":{},"timestamps":{},"data":{},"ordered":{},"auth":{"isLoaded":false,"isEmpty":true},"authError":null,"profile":{"isLoaded":false,"isEmpty":true},"listeners":{"byId":{},"allIds":[]},"isInitializing":false,"errors":[]},"navBarReducer":{"navBarId":"news","fullView":true,"showPlayer":false},"navMenuReducer":{"menus":[{"key":"menu1","items":[{"name":"News","link":"/","type":"title"},{"name":"Politics","link":"/politics"},{"name":"Science","link":"/science"},{"name":"Education","link":"/educationnews"},{"name":"Housing","link":"/housing"},{"name":"Immigration","link":"/immigration"},{"name":"Criminal Justice","link":"/criminaljustice"},{"name":"Silicon Valley","link":"/siliconvalley"},{"name":"Forum","link":"/forum"},{"name":"The California Report","link":"/californiareport"}]},{"key":"menu2","items":[{"name":"Arts & Culture","link":"/arts","type":"title"},{"name":"Critics’ Picks","link":"/thedolist"},{"name":"Cultural Commentary","link":"/artscommentary"},{"name":"Food & Drink","link":"/food"},{"name":"Bay Area Hip-Hop","link":"/bayareahiphop"},{"name":"Rebel Girls","link":"/rebelgirls"},{"name":"Arts Video","link":"/artsvideos"}]},{"key":"menu3","items":[{"name":"Podcasts","link":"/podcasts","type":"title"},{"name":"Bay Curious","link":"/podcasts/baycurious"},{"name":"Rightnowish","link":"/podcasts/rightnowish"},{"name":"The Bay","link":"/podcasts/thebay"},{"name":"On Our Watch","link":"/podcasts/onourwatch"},{"name":"Mindshift","link":"/podcasts/mindshift"},{"name":"Consider This","link":"/podcasts/considerthis"},{"name":"Political Breakdown","link":"/podcasts/politicalbreakdown"}]},{"key":"menu4","items":[{"name":"Live Radio","link":"/radio","type":"title"},{"name":"TV","link":"/tv","type":"title"},{"name":"Events","link":"/events","type":"title"},{"name":"For Educators","link":"/education","type":"title"},{"name":"Support KQED","link":"/support","type":"title"},{"name":"About","link":"/about","type":"title"},{"name":"Help Center","link":"https://kqed-helpcenter.kqed.org/s","type":"title"}]}]},"pagesReducer":{},"postsReducer":{"stream_live":{"type":"live","id":"stream_live","audioUrl":"https://streams.kqed.org/kqedradio","title":"Live Stream","excerpt":"Live Stream information currently unavailable.","link":"/radio","featImg":"","label":{"name":"KQED Live","link":"/"}},"stream_kqedNewscast":{"type":"posts","id":"stream_kqedNewscast","audioUrl":"https://www.kqed.org/.stream/anon/radio/RDnews/newscast.mp3?_=1","title":"KQED Newscast","featImg":"","label":{"name":"88.5 FM","link":"/"}},"news_11926565":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11926565","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11926565","score":null,"sort":[1664226666000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"the-cat-is-out-of-the-bag-the-possibilities-and-pitfalls-of-ai-imagery","title":"'The Cat Is Out of the Bag': As DALL-E Becomes Public, the Possibilities — and Pitfalls — of AI Imagery","publishDate":1664226666,"format":"standard","headTitle":"KQED News","labelTerm":{"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Update, 11:50 a.m. Wednesday:\u003c/strong> DALL-E was previously only accessible to the public via invite, but the AI generator has now been made available to all without a waitlist. \u003ca href=\"https://openai.com/blog/dall-e-now-available-without-waitlist/\">Read more about signing up to use DALL-E here.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Original post, 2:10 p.m. Monday: \u003c/b>Think of something, type it in, and wait for it …\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Imagine an image generated from your thoughts and words in just minutes, all ready for the world to see. That’s what \u003ca href=\"https://openai.com/dall-e-2/\">OpenAI's DALL-E \u003c/a>— a neural network designed to convert text descriptions into images — and its newest version, DALL-E 2, is for.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This artificial intelligence-powered image generator seems futuristic and fun, but is it necessary? More importantly, is it \u003cem>safe\u003c/em>? And how can technologies like these handle things like online disinformation, bias, violent content and other harms?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/forum/2010101890327/dall-e-deepfakes-and-the-new-frontier-of-online-misinformation\">a recent episode of KQED Forum\u003c/a>, host Mina Kim hosted a conversation on the possibilities and pitfalls of this technology with:\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>Lama Ahmad, policy researcher from DALL-E creator OpenAI;\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Hany Farid, deepfake expert at UC Berkeley.\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>The following interview has been edited for length and clarity.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MINA KIN: What is DALL-E, and how does it work?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>LAMA AHMAD:\u003c/strong> DALL-E is an AI that basically does text-to-image. So someone can type in a prompt and the output would be anything you can imagine. It learned from pairs of lots and lots of images, and lots and lots of captions, and basically is able to construct those concepts entirely from scratch. Even though it learned from existing images, words and language, it will be able to construct what that image \u003cem>would\u003c/em> look like.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You can also use \u003ca href=\"https://theinpaint.com/\">Inpaint\u003c/a> to select a region of an image and modify it also using words. And you can also create variations on existing images, or images generated by the software itself.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The images can look hyperrealistic, fantastical or abstract, if that's what you would like. Sort of all in the words that you use and how you craft your prompts.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>https://twitter.com/OpenAI/status/1511714516345651204\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You can also upload images to DALL-E. That goes to that Inpainting functionality where you can edit regions of an image. That being said, you cannot upload images of people, and that was a concerted effort on the part of OpenAI to really combat misinformation and disinformation related to people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It was really important to OpenAI that we are putting out the AI that is most helpful, and most beneficial to people. And at the end of the day, uploading images of people was not something we wanted to allow.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>DALL-E doesn’t allow uploading images of people. But, how can DALL-E be used in a malicious way?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>LAMA AHMAD:\u003c/strong> Before we even deployed DALL-E, we worked with researchers at lots of universities, academic institutions, civil society organizations that have been thinking deeply about these problems. Not just disinformation, but things like bias, things like representations of harmful imagery around children, violent content — a whole host of things.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And so we really thought about this, all the way from training the model and what sorts of images we include, all the way up into the development of the system, and how it would be presented to the world.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Including external researchers was a really important part of that because it's not just people at OpenAI who are thinking about it, it's the minds of lots of great people that helped us to develop our mitigations and make sure that they were working.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>What benefit does DALL-E provide?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>LAMA AHMAD:\u003c/strong> I think some of the exciting things that we've seen happen with DALL-E are changes in how artists are doing their work, a new genre of art, and the emerging accessibility of creating images. Not everyone has the skills to do Photoshop. I certainly don't.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Being able to make those kinds of things accessible to a broad range of people is something that we hope will be unlocked as a benefit of models like DALL-E. But it's certainly something that we think about, like, how do you deploy? Or should you even deploy at all?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>https://twitter.com/OpenAI/status/1565009366951989248\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Are the safeguards really good that DALL-E puts in?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>HANY FARID:\u003c/strong> They're not perfect.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Shortly after DALL-E was released, another version of this image synthesis was released called Stable Diffusion, with zero guardrails. You can put in anybody's name, create violent or sexually explicit material — no rules. And it's completely open-source. It took us all of an hour to get one running up on one of our computers, and all of the safeguards — that OpenAI very thoughtfully put in — in some ways don't matter anymore.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We’ve seen three very different approaches to this technology. We've been talking about OpenAI’s thoughtful methods with safeguards; I've mentioned Stable Diffusion with zero safeguards; Google has a version of this and they refuse to release it. I couldn't even get access as a forensic scientist saying I wanted to just do forensic analysis. Google’s rationale was they are concerned about misuse and they are not releasing it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And so now you've seen three very different approaches to this. But of course, it's the lowest common denominator that matters. And the lowest common denominator is, no rules.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Can you talk a little bit about regulating tools like this?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>HANY FARID:\u003c/strong> What we spend most of our time doing here in my lab is, somebody sends me an image or a video, and we try to determine if it's real or fake.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Another way to think about this problem is that when you record an image or a video at the point of recording, you can authenticate. And there's a really nice initiative called the \u003ca href=\"https://c2pa.org/\">C2PA, the Coalition for Content Provenance and Authenticity\u003c/a>, building a system that would allow your device so that when I take an image or a video or audio, it will authenticate the date and time, the location, who took it, and all the pixels are authentic so that when that piece of content makes its way onto the internet, then I can trust that it has been authentic. And I like that technology a lot because it's here, it works, and it will scale. But it doesn't mean we can simply ignore all the other problems.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But I think it's part of a larger solution that includes education, government regulation and technology. And also, more corporate responsibility. OpenAI has done a good job, but I don't think you can say that all companies have the same thoughtfulness that we have seen coming out of OpenAI.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>https://twitter.com/OpenAI/status/1511714540785860611\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>What are the dangers of tools like DALL-E in cases like predictive policing, facial recognition and surveillance regimes?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>HANY FARID:\u003c/strong> I think that a legitimate point to make is, how are these systems being trained? And also is there bias in the data?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So for example, in policing, if we use historical data, that historical data is biased against people of color. And if you simply train an AI algorithm, you are simply going to repeat history. So I think that it's a legitimate and reasonable concern to have, both from a bias perspective, but also from a fairness perspective.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>California does have two laws about deepfakes. One allows anyone whose images are nonconsensually used in pornography to sue, and the other prohibits the malicious use of deepfakes for a candidate for office. What do you think of those?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>HANY FARID:\u003c/strong> There are some problems with the laws. You have to prove intent to harm. It's not just that it's illegal to create it. You have to prove that it was in your intent to harm somebody. And proving intent is very, very difficult.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And also, this works within the borders of California. What happens when this is coming from wherever — Romania? Russia? China? We have no ability to litigate this here. Once those images are on the internet, they don't come down and the harm is done and maybe you'll have some retribution a year, 10 years from now. But it doesn't really deal with the problem.\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[pullquote size='medium' align='right' citation=\"Hany Farid, deepfake expert, UC Berkeley\"]'If we enter this world where any image, any audio, any video, any tweet, any article can be fake, well, then — nothing has to be real.'[/pullquote]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I think also the deepfake bill on politics is problematic, because it's very narrowly tailored. There are all kinds of things you have to show. And again, within the California borders, I think they were well-intentioned. But I think they are largely impotent.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>You've talked about \"the liar's dividend.\" Can you explain what that is?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>HANY FARID:\u003c/strong> The thing I really worry about is that if we enter this world where any image, any audio, any video, any tweet, any article can be fake, well, then — nothing has to be real. We can simply dismiss things that we don't like or agree with. And now we are living in a completely alternate universe relative to those around us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You see this playing out on a regular basis. For example, in 2015 Trump gets himself in trouble for the act of saying awful things about women on the \"Access Hollywood\" tape. A year and a half later, deepfakes are now on the horizon — they come into our vocabulary. He's asked about the audio and he says it's fake.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Now we are living in alternate realities, the so-called \"liar's dividend.\" And now we have a double-fisted weapon. I can create fake content and I can deny reality by using exactly the same specter of that technology.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>https://www.instagram.com/p/CgZmhlmrcWx\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>What about democratizing access to knowledge?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>HANY FARID:\u003c/strong> I think the paradox of the internet was that the idea was to democratize access to knowledge and information and to wrestle away from the handful of publishers the ability to publish. And therefore, that was a big leap. Now the world would be better off.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But of course, what we've done is we've just traded off who controls information. It went from CBS, ABC, NBC Nightly News to Facebook. And if you asked me which one I would prefer, I would rather go back to the nightly news. Why? Because they have editorial standards.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There are now five tech companies that control the internet, and I think that has been to the detriment, because they have not brought in the editorial standards and the journalistic standards that, although they are not perfect, the mainstream media has.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>In which ways do you see this technology being used for good?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>HANY FARID:\u003c/strong> I'm not 100% convinced that we should have done this stuff. And I'm not referring specifically to DALL-E. I'm referring to the general world of synthetic media.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If you go back for decades now, the computer-graphics community has developed technology that allows for really cool special effects and Hollywood studios. And now we've just democratized access to that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I think it's fun and creative. But are those outweighed by the downsides, and if so, by how much? And if so, then what do we do about it?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I admit that I have a biased worldview because I come at it from the other side. I see more on the downside than the upside. That's not to say that we can't mitigate the harm. But the reality today is the cat is out of the bag. We're not putting this technology back in, and we're going to have to start to get more serious about dealing with and mitigating the harm that is coming from these types of technologies.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>What about the impact on manual and creative labor?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>HANY FARID: \u003c/strong>We tend to think of the disruption of technology impacting manual labor. But now we're talking about AI disrupting creative tasks — the one thing that we thought we had over the machines.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>By the way, it's not just creative, it’s doctors, radiologists. AI systems are getting so good now that they can read X-rays and CT scans and MRIs on par with or better than physicians. So you are talking about disrupting not just what would be considered manual labor, but also things that we thought were safe for a while.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Also \u003cem>my\u003c/em> job: Computer scientists are now starting to develop technology to write computer code that will then build the next generation of AI. And so it's a really interesting landscape because you're seeing how AI is starting to disrupt.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I don't think you can stop this. So it's a question of how we come to grips with this massive disruption on the scale of the industrial revolution.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>You are constantly deep in it and you see some of the worst things that people can generate using these kinds of technologies. So how do you not freak out?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>HANY FARID: \u003c/strong>It's been a rough few years, in combination with COVID and world events. And while I am quick to blame the Mark Zuckerbergs and the Facebooks of the world for that, the chaos that they have induced on society, at the end of the day, we as individuals can't escape responsibility. We're the idiots on Facebook clicking on this stuff. We're the jerks on Twitter yelling and screaming at each other. We are contributing to this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So I think we all have to look inward and also outward. And I think we have to look to our government regulators, to do a better job than they have done over the last 20 years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"You've probably encountered images made by DALL-E, a neural network designed to convert text descriptions into images. But what are the implications of this artificial intelligence-powered image generator?","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1664391372,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":58,"wordCount":2354},"headData":{"title":"'The Cat Is Out of the Bag': As DALL-E Becomes Public, the Possibilities — and Pitfalls — of AI Imagery | KQED","description":"You've probably encountered images made by DALL-E, a neural network designed to convert text descriptions into images. But what are the implications of this artificial intelligence-powered image generator?","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":""},"disqusIdentifier":"11926565 https://ww2.kqed.org/news/?p=11926565","disqusUrl":"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/2022/09/26/the-cat-is-out-of-the-bag-the-possibilities-and-pitfalls-of-ai-imagery/","disqusTitle":"'The Cat Is Out of the Bag': As DALL-E Becomes Public, the Possibilities — and Pitfalls — of AI Imagery","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","path":"/news/11926565/the-cat-is-out-of-the-bag-the-possibilities-and-pitfalls-of-ai-imagery","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Update, 11:50 a.m. Wednesday:\u003c/strong> DALL-E was previously only accessible to the public via invite, but the AI generator has now been made available to all without a waitlist. \u003ca href=\"https://openai.com/blog/dall-e-now-available-without-waitlist/\">Read more about signing up to use DALL-E here.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Original post, 2:10 p.m. Monday: \u003c/b>Think of something, type it in, and wait for it …\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Imagine an image generated from your thoughts and words in just minutes, all ready for the world to see. That’s what \u003ca href=\"https://openai.com/dall-e-2/\">OpenAI's DALL-E \u003c/a>— a neural network designed to convert text descriptions into images — and its newest version, DALL-E 2, is for.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This artificial intelligence-powered image generator seems futuristic and fun, but is it necessary? More importantly, is it \u003cem>safe\u003c/em>? And how can technologies like these handle things like online disinformation, bias, violent content and other harms?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/forum/2010101890327/dall-e-deepfakes-and-the-new-frontier-of-online-misinformation\">a recent episode of KQED Forum\u003c/a>, host Mina Kim hosted a conversation on the possibilities and pitfalls of this technology with:\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>Lama Ahmad, policy researcher from DALL-E creator OpenAI;\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Hany Farid, deepfake expert at UC Berkeley.\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>The following interview has been edited for length and clarity.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MINA KIN: What is DALL-E, and how does it work?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>LAMA AHMAD:\u003c/strong> DALL-E is an AI that basically does text-to-image. So someone can type in a prompt and the output would be anything you can imagine. It learned from pairs of lots and lots of images, and lots and lots of captions, and basically is able to construct those concepts entirely from scratch. Even though it learned from existing images, words and language, it will be able to construct what that image \u003cem>would\u003c/em> look like.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You can also use \u003ca href=\"https://theinpaint.com/\">Inpaint\u003c/a> to select a region of an image and modify it also using words. And you can also create variations on existing images, or images generated by the software itself.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The images can look hyperrealistic, fantastical or abstract, if that's what you would like. Sort of all in the words that you use and how you craft your prompts.\u003c/p>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"singleTwitterStatus","attributes":{"named":{"id":"1511714516345651204"},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003cp>You can also upload images to DALL-E. That goes to that Inpainting functionality where you can edit regions of an image. That being said, you cannot upload images of people, and that was a concerted effort on the part of OpenAI to really combat misinformation and disinformation related to people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It was really important to OpenAI that we are putting out the AI that is most helpful, and most beneficial to people. And at the end of the day, uploading images of people was not something we wanted to allow.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>DALL-E doesn’t allow uploading images of people. But, how can DALL-E be used in a malicious way?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>LAMA AHMAD:\u003c/strong> Before we even deployed DALL-E, we worked with researchers at lots of universities, academic institutions, civil society organizations that have been thinking deeply about these problems. Not just disinformation, but things like bias, things like representations of harmful imagery around children, violent content — a whole host of things.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And so we really thought about this, all the way from training the model and what sorts of images we include, all the way up into the development of the system, and how it would be presented to the world.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Including external researchers was a really important part of that because it's not just people at OpenAI who are thinking about it, it's the minds of lots of great people that helped us to develop our mitigations and make sure that they were working.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>What benefit does DALL-E provide?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>LAMA AHMAD:\u003c/strong> I think some of the exciting things that we've seen happen with DALL-E are changes in how artists are doing their work, a new genre of art, and the emerging accessibility of creating images. Not everyone has the skills to do Photoshop. I certainly don't.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Being able to make those kinds of things accessible to a broad range of people is something that we hope will be unlocked as a benefit of models like DALL-E. But it's certainly something that we think about, like, how do you deploy? Or should you even deploy at all?\u003c/p>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"singleTwitterStatus","attributes":{"named":{"id":"1565009366951989248"},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Are the safeguards really good that DALL-E puts in?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>HANY FARID:\u003c/strong> They're not perfect.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Shortly after DALL-E was released, another version of this image synthesis was released called Stable Diffusion, with zero guardrails. You can put in anybody's name, create violent or sexually explicit material — no rules. And it's completely open-source. It took us all of an hour to get one running up on one of our computers, and all of the safeguards — that OpenAI very thoughtfully put in — in some ways don't matter anymore.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We’ve seen three very different approaches to this technology. We've been talking about OpenAI’s thoughtful methods with safeguards; I've mentioned Stable Diffusion with zero safeguards; Google has a version of this and they refuse to release it. I couldn't even get access as a forensic scientist saying I wanted to just do forensic analysis. Google’s rationale was they are concerned about misuse and they are not releasing it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And so now you've seen three very different approaches to this. But of course, it's the lowest common denominator that matters. And the lowest common denominator is, no rules.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Can you talk a little bit about regulating tools like this?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>HANY FARID:\u003c/strong> What we spend most of our time doing here in my lab is, somebody sends me an image or a video, and we try to determine if it's real or fake.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Another way to think about this problem is that when you record an image or a video at the point of recording, you can authenticate. And there's a really nice initiative called the \u003ca href=\"https://c2pa.org/\">C2PA, the Coalition for Content Provenance and Authenticity\u003c/a>, building a system that would allow your device so that when I take an image or a video or audio, it will authenticate the date and time, the location, who took it, and all the pixels are authentic so that when that piece of content makes its way onto the internet, then I can trust that it has been authentic. And I like that technology a lot because it's here, it works, and it will scale. But it doesn't mean we can simply ignore all the other problems.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But I think it's part of a larger solution that includes education, government regulation and technology. And also, more corporate responsibility. OpenAI has done a good job, but I don't think you can say that all companies have the same thoughtfulness that we have seen coming out of OpenAI.\u003c/p>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"singleTwitterStatus","attributes":{"named":{"id":"1511714540785860611"},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>What are the dangers of tools like DALL-E in cases like predictive policing, facial recognition and surveillance regimes?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>HANY FARID:\u003c/strong> I think that a legitimate point to make is, how are these systems being trained? And also is there bias in the data?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So for example, in policing, if we use historical data, that historical data is biased against people of color. And if you simply train an AI algorithm, you are simply going to repeat history. So I think that it's a legitimate and reasonable concern to have, both from a bias perspective, but also from a fairness perspective.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>California does have two laws about deepfakes. One allows anyone whose images are nonconsensually used in pornography to sue, and the other prohibits the malicious use of deepfakes for a candidate for office. What do you think of those?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>HANY FARID:\u003c/strong> There are some problems with the laws. You have to prove intent to harm. It's not just that it's illegal to create it. You have to prove that it was in your intent to harm somebody. And proving intent is very, very difficult.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And also, this works within the borders of California. What happens when this is coming from wherever — Romania? Russia? China? We have no ability to litigate this here. Once those images are on the internet, they don't come down and the harm is done and maybe you'll have some retribution a year, 10 years from now. But it doesn't really deal with the problem.\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"'If we enter this world where any image, any audio, any video, any tweet, any article can be fake, well, then — nothing has to be real.'","name":"pullquote","attributes":{"named":{"size":"medium","align":"right","citation":"Hany Farid, deepfake expert, UC Berkeley","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I think also the deepfake bill on politics is problematic, because it's very narrowly tailored. There are all kinds of things you have to show. And again, within the California borders, I think they were well-intentioned. But I think they are largely impotent.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>You've talked about \"the liar's dividend.\" Can you explain what that is?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>HANY FARID:\u003c/strong> The thing I really worry about is that if we enter this world where any image, any audio, any video, any tweet, any article can be fake, well, then — nothing has to be real. We can simply dismiss things that we don't like or agree with. And now we are living in a completely alternate universe relative to those around us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You see this playing out on a regular basis. For example, in 2015 Trump gets himself in trouble for the act of saying awful things about women on the \"Access Hollywood\" tape. A year and a half later, deepfakes are now on the horizon — they come into our vocabulary. He's asked about the audio and he says it's fake.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Now we are living in alternate realities, the so-called \"liar's dividend.\" And now we have a double-fisted weapon. I can create fake content and I can deny reality by using exactly the same specter of that technology.\u003c/p>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"instagramLink","attributes":{"named":{"instagramId":"CgZmhlmrcWx"},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cstrong>What about democratizing access to knowledge?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>HANY FARID:\u003c/strong> I think the paradox of the internet was that the idea was to democratize access to knowledge and information and to wrestle away from the handful of publishers the ability to publish. And therefore, that was a big leap. Now the world would be better off.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But of course, what we've done is we've just traded off who controls information. It went from CBS, ABC, NBC Nightly News to Facebook. And if you asked me which one I would prefer, I would rather go back to the nightly news. Why? Because they have editorial standards.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There are now five tech companies that control the internet, and I think that has been to the detriment, because they have not brought in the editorial standards and the journalistic standards that, although they are not perfect, the mainstream media has.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>In which ways do you see this technology being used for good?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>HANY FARID:\u003c/strong> I'm not 100% convinced that we should have done this stuff. And I'm not referring specifically to DALL-E. I'm referring to the general world of synthetic media.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If you go back for decades now, the computer-graphics community has developed technology that allows for really cool special effects and Hollywood studios. And now we've just democratized access to that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I think it's fun and creative. But are those outweighed by the downsides, and if so, by how much? And if so, then what do we do about it?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I admit that I have a biased worldview because I come at it from the other side. I see more on the downside than the upside. That's not to say that we can't mitigate the harm. But the reality today is the cat is out of the bag. We're not putting this technology back in, and we're going to have to start to get more serious about dealing with and mitigating the harm that is coming from these types of technologies.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>What about the impact on manual and creative labor?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>HANY FARID: \u003c/strong>We tend to think of the disruption of technology impacting manual labor. But now we're talking about AI disrupting creative tasks — the one thing that we thought we had over the machines.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>By the way, it's not just creative, it’s doctors, radiologists. AI systems are getting so good now that they can read X-rays and CT scans and MRIs on par with or better than physicians. So you are talking about disrupting not just what would be considered manual labor, but also things that we thought were safe for a while.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Also \u003cem>my\u003c/em> job: Computer scientists are now starting to develop technology to write computer code that will then build the next generation of AI. And so it's a really interesting landscape because you're seeing how AI is starting to disrupt.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I don't think you can stop this. So it's a question of how we come to grips with this massive disruption on the scale of the industrial revolution.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>You are constantly deep in it and you see some of the worst things that people can generate using these kinds of technologies. So how do you not freak out?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>HANY FARID: \u003c/strong>It's been a rough few years, in combination with COVID and world events. And while I am quick to blame the Mark Zuckerbergs and the Facebooks of the world for that, the chaos that they have induced on society, at the end of the day, we as individuals can't escape responsibility. We're the idiots on Facebook clicking on this stuff. We're the jerks on Twitter yelling and screaming at each other. We are contributing to this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So I think we all have to look inward and also outward. And I think we have to look to our government regulators, to do a better job than they have done over the last 20 years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11926565/the-cat-is-out-of-the-bag-the-possibilities-and-pitfalls-of-ai-imagery","authors":["243","11631"],"categories":["news_8"],"tags":["news_25184","news_2114","news_26129","news_22948","news_1631"],"featImg":"news_11926686","label":"news"},"news_11894616":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11894616","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11894616","score":null,"sort":[1635805878000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"a-walk-in-the-park","title":"A Walk in the Park","publishDate":1635805878,"format":"aside","headTitle":"Mark Fiore: Drawn to the Bay | KQED News","labelTerm":{"term":18515,"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2021/11/insider_110121_final.png\">\u003cimg class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-11894626\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2021/11/insider_110121_final.png\" alt='Cartoon: in the style of the Outside Lands festival poster, we see \"Insider Lands, ethics and influence festival.\" The lineup includes acts ranging from \"technically legal\" to \"tickets, the corrupter\" to \"the linewalkers.\"' width=\"1920\" height=\"1444\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2021/11/insider_110121_final.png 1920w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2021/11/insider_110121_final-800x602.png 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2021/11/insider_110121_final-1020x767.png 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2021/11/insider_110121_final-160x120.png 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2021/11/insider_110121_final-1536x1155.png 1536w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>City officials across multiple departments have received at least $430,950 in free tickets to the Outside Lands music fest.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The \u003ca href=\"https://bit.ly/fioreoutsidelandethics\">San Francisco Ethics Commission is not pleased\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Officials with the Recreation and Parks Department are responsible for handling the contract with Another Planet Entertainment, the company that puts on the three-day music festival.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Over the past several years, the concert promoter has given hundreds of thousands of dollars' worth of the festival's pricey tickets to Rec and Parks, which then doles out the free tickets to employees and politico types throughout San Francisco.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Through the miracle of a magic loophole, this is somehow not a conflict of interest.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Full disclosure: This cartoonist was not the recipient of one of the six free tickets that were given to KQED.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Awkward.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"City officials across multiple departments have received at least $430,950 in free tickets to the Outside Lands music fest. The San Francisco Ethics Commission is not pleased.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1635817856,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":10,"wordCount":136},"headData":{"title":"A Walk in the Park | KQED","description":"City officials across multiple departments have received at least $430,950 in free tickets to the Outside Lands music fest. The San Francisco Ethics Commission is not pleased.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":""},"disqusIdentifier":"11894616 https://ww2.kqed.org/news/?p=11894616","disqusUrl":"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/2021/11/01/a-walk-in-the-park/","disqusTitle":"A Walk in the Park","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","path":"/news/11894616/a-walk-in-the-park","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2021/11/insider_110121_final.png\">\u003cimg class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-11894626\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2021/11/insider_110121_final.png\" alt='Cartoon: in the style of the Outside Lands festival poster, we see \"Insider Lands, ethics and influence festival.\" The lineup includes acts ranging from \"technically legal\" to \"tickets, the corrupter\" to \"the linewalkers.\"' width=\"1920\" height=\"1444\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2021/11/insider_110121_final.png 1920w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2021/11/insider_110121_final-800x602.png 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2021/11/insider_110121_final-1020x767.png 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2021/11/insider_110121_final-160x120.png 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2021/11/insider_110121_final-1536x1155.png 1536w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>City officials across multiple departments have received at least $430,950 in free tickets to the Outside Lands music fest.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The \u003ca href=\"https://bit.ly/fioreoutsidelandethics\">San Francisco Ethics Commission is not pleased\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Officials with the Recreation and Parks Department are responsible for handling the contract with Another Planet Entertainment, the company that puts on the three-day music festival.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Over the past several years, the concert promoter has given hundreds of thousands of dollars' worth of the festival's pricey tickets to Rec and Parks, which then doles out the free tickets to employees and politico types throughout San Francisco.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Through the miracle of a magic loophole, this is somehow not a conflict of interest.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Full disclosure: This cartoonist was not the recipient of one of the six free tickets that were given to KQED.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Awkward.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11894616/a-walk-in-the-park","authors":["3236"],"series":["news_18515"],"categories":["news_6188","news_8","news_13"],"tags":["news_19522","news_22948","news_5589","news_20949","news_30159","news_2483"],"featImg":"news_11894626","label":"news_18515"},"news_11832085":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11832085","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11832085","score":null,"sort":[1596916507000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"justice-should-be-blind-an-ethicists-case-for-decarceration","title":"'Justice Should Be Blind': An Ethicist's Case for Decarceration","publishDate":1596916507,"format":"audio","headTitle":"KQED News","labelTerm":{},"content":"\u003cp>As COVID-19 cases continue to rise inside \u003ca href=\"https://www.themarshallproject.org/2020/05/01/a-state-by-state-look-at-coronavirus-in-prisons\">state and federal prisons\u003c/a> across the United States, increasing attention is being drawn to the conditions inside those facilities.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Nationwide, there have been at least \u003ca href=\"https://www.themarshallproject.org/2020/05/01/a-state-by-state-look-at-coronavirus-in-prisons\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">765 deaths\u003c/a> from coronavirus-related causes, while the rate of COVID-19 infections is \u003ca href=\"https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2768249\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">five times higher\u003c/a> inside lockups compared to the general population, according to research by Johns Hopkins University and the \u003ca href=\"https://law.ucla.edu/academics/centers/criminal-justice-program/ucla-covid-19-behind-bars-data-project\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">UCLA Law COVID-19 Behind Bars Data Project\u003c/a> published in the \u003ca href=\"https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2768249\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Journal of American Medical Association\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Several lawsuits are alleging delayed and inadequate health care and are seeking to hold both state and federal prison systems accountable around the country, including lawsuits in \u003ca href=\"https://ctmirror.org/2020/04/21/aclu-class-action-federal-lawsuit-lower-prison-population-ct-coronavirus/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Connecticut\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/aclu-sues-oakdale-federal-prison-release-those-most-risk-covid-19\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Louisiana\u003c/a> and here in the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/coronavirusliveupdates/news/11831939/the-california-department-of-corrections-and-rehabilitation-rejects-petition-for-release\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Bay Area\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The pandemic is also raising broader questions surrounding medical ethics, such as \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11808531/what-happens-when-the-ventilators-run-out\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">what happens when ventilators run out \u003c/a>and is it ethical to keep incarcerated people confined in conditions known to increase the spread of the virus?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In California state prisons, where at least \u003ca href=\"https://www.cdcr.ca.gov/covid19/population-status-tracking/\">8,600\u003c/a> prisoners have been infected and at least 52 have died, lawmakers and advocates have been calling for the release of more prisoners to help draw down the population inside and reduce the risk of spreading COVID-19.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>KQED’s Brian Watt spoke with Dr. Charles Binkley, the director of bioethics at the Markkula Center for Applied Ethics at Santa Clara University to dig into solutions to the pandemic inside prisons.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This interview has been edited for clarity and brevity.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Brian Watt: As a bioethicist, what does California's handling of the crisis in the prisons tell you? \u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dr. Charles Binkley:\u003c/strong> The jury is a little bit out on that, and I think that it is going to be a critical and crucial issue that Californians are going to face. But we have to find longer-term solutions around criminal justice reform, and that has to take into account emerging communicable diseases and our ability to control them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In bioethics, we think about the one standard of care for all, regardless of who comes in or what they've done. [pullquote size=\"medium\" align=\"right\" citation=\"Dr. Charles Binkley, Markkula Center for Applied Ethics, Santa Clara University\"]'In bioethics, we think about the one standard of care for all, regardless of who comes in or what they've done.'[/pullquote]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We treat everybody the same and we're really blind, just like justice should be blind. We as providers are blind so we treat everyone with the same high quality standard of care. And that's just not happening. And this is unmasking that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Morally and ethically, what responsibilities does the government have in caring for incarcerated people?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I think that they have the same responsibility that we all do.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We know that prisons are already overcrowded. We know that it's an older, sicker population and we know there's less access to high-quality care. And so I think what has to happen, first of all, is you have to be able to translate those basic public health priorities.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I think you start by decarcerating. You look at who are the people that can be released early and focus on vulnerable populations within that group — so that you reduce prison crowding.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>How do you also think about the ethics of releasing inmates and whether that is really going to make formerly incarcerated people safer when they go out into the world?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I think about it just purely from a public health perspective, so we know that the boundaries between the prison and the surrounding communities is porous to begin with. And so you really need to make sure that there's been proper testing and isolation of incarcerated people before you release them out into society or out into the community. The same thing is true with staff of the prison. The community is itself at risk — if there's an uncontrolled infection within the prison itself.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Does the fact that our prisons are overcrowded and that health care standards inside prisons are different from the outside say something about our society? \u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Absolutely, I think that it says something very important. It says that we've neglected this idea of justice — we've neglected the idea that everyone should have equal access to the highest possible quality of medical care. It's particularly problematic when you think about our status as a nation and our relative wealth as a nation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>What is the federal government doing during this moment, and what is it saying to you as a bioethicist?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It does seem a bit perverse for the federal government to resume executions in the middle of a pandemic while other systems throughout the world are looking at decarcerating inmates, looking at reexamination of some of their criminal justice structures in the middle of the pandemic. Our federal government is executing people and making its citizens witness to those executions while there's so many of us that are fearful of the virus. And also so many people who are out of work. So many people who are suffering otherwise and dying unnecessarily in the midst of the pandemic.\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"Ethicist Charles Binkley says the COVID-19 pandemic is unmasking the inequities of health care in prisons.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1597082911,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":23,"wordCount":858},"headData":{"title":"'Justice Should Be Blind': An Ethicist's Case for Decarceration | KQED","description":"Ethicist Charles Binkley says the COVID-19 pandemic is unmasking the inequities of health care in prisons.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":""},"disqusIdentifier":"11832085 https://ww2.kqed.org/news/?p=11832085","disqusUrl":"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/2020/08/08/justice-should-be-blind-an-ethicists-case-for-decarceration/","disqusTitle":"'Justice Should Be Blind': An Ethicist's Case for Decarceration","source":"Coronavirus","sourceUrl":"https://www.kqed.org/coronavirus","audioUrl":"https://traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/0af137ef-751e-4b19-a055-aaef00d2d578/ffca7e9f-6831-41c5-bcaf-aaef00f5a073/6df4e98e-bf3d-4728-afb2-ac0e0126f70c/audio.mp3","path":"/news/11832085/justice-should-be-blind-an-ethicists-case-for-decarceration","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>As COVID-19 cases continue to rise inside \u003ca href=\"https://www.themarshallproject.org/2020/05/01/a-state-by-state-look-at-coronavirus-in-prisons\">state and federal prisons\u003c/a> across the United States, increasing attention is being drawn to the conditions inside those facilities.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Nationwide, there have been at least \u003ca href=\"https://www.themarshallproject.org/2020/05/01/a-state-by-state-look-at-coronavirus-in-prisons\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">765 deaths\u003c/a> from coronavirus-related causes, while the rate of COVID-19 infections is \u003ca href=\"https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2768249\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">five times higher\u003c/a> inside lockups compared to the general population, according to research by Johns Hopkins University and the \u003ca href=\"https://law.ucla.edu/academics/centers/criminal-justice-program/ucla-covid-19-behind-bars-data-project\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">UCLA Law COVID-19 Behind Bars Data Project\u003c/a> published in the \u003ca href=\"https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2768249\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Journal of American Medical Association\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Several lawsuits are alleging delayed and inadequate health care and are seeking to hold both state and federal prison systems accountable around the country, including lawsuits in \u003ca href=\"https://ctmirror.org/2020/04/21/aclu-class-action-federal-lawsuit-lower-prison-population-ct-coronavirus/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Connecticut\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/aclu-sues-oakdale-federal-prison-release-those-most-risk-covid-19\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Louisiana\u003c/a> and here in the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/coronavirusliveupdates/news/11831939/the-california-department-of-corrections-and-rehabilitation-rejects-petition-for-release\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Bay Area\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The pandemic is also raising broader questions surrounding medical ethics, such as \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11808531/what-happens-when-the-ventilators-run-out\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">what happens when ventilators run out \u003c/a>and is it ethical to keep incarcerated people confined in conditions known to increase the spread of the virus?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In California state prisons, where at least \u003ca href=\"https://www.cdcr.ca.gov/covid19/population-status-tracking/\">8,600\u003c/a> prisoners have been infected and at least 52 have died, lawmakers and advocates have been calling for the release of more prisoners to help draw down the population inside and reduce the risk of spreading COVID-19.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>KQED’s Brian Watt spoke with Dr. Charles Binkley, the director of bioethics at the Markkula Center for Applied Ethics at Santa Clara University to dig into solutions to the pandemic inside prisons.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This interview has been edited for clarity and brevity.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Brian Watt: As a bioethicist, what does California's handling of the crisis in the prisons tell you? \u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dr. Charles Binkley:\u003c/strong> The jury is a little bit out on that, and I think that it is going to be a critical and crucial issue that Californians are going to face. But we have to find longer-term solutions around criminal justice reform, and that has to take into account emerging communicable diseases and our ability to control them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In bioethics, we think about the one standard of care for all, regardless of who comes in or what they've done. \u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"'In bioethics, we think about the one standard of care for all, regardless of who comes in or what they've done.'","name":"pullquote","attributes":{"named":{"size":"medium","align":"right","citation":"Dr. Charles Binkley, Markkula Center for Applied Ethics, Santa Clara University","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We treat everybody the same and we're really blind, just like justice should be blind. We as providers are blind so we treat everyone with the same high quality standard of care. And that's just not happening. And this is unmasking that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Morally and ethically, what responsibilities does the government have in caring for incarcerated people?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I think that they have the same responsibility that we all do.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We know that prisons are already overcrowded. We know that it's an older, sicker population and we know there's less access to high-quality care. And so I think what has to happen, first of all, is you have to be able to translate those basic public health priorities.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I think you start by decarcerating. You look at who are the people that can be released early and focus on vulnerable populations within that group — so that you reduce prison crowding.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>How do you also think about the ethics of releasing inmates and whether that is really going to make formerly incarcerated people safer when they go out into the world?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I think about it just purely from a public health perspective, so we know that the boundaries between the prison and the surrounding communities is porous to begin with. And so you really need to make sure that there's been proper testing and isolation of incarcerated people before you release them out into society or out into the community. The same thing is true with staff of the prison. The community is itself at risk — if there's an uncontrolled infection within the prison itself.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Does the fact that our prisons are overcrowded and that health care standards inside prisons are different from the outside say something about our society? \u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Absolutely, I think that it says something very important. It says that we've neglected this idea of justice — we've neglected the idea that everyone should have equal access to the highest possible quality of medical care. It's particularly problematic when you think about our status as a nation and our relative wealth as a nation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>What is the federal government doing during this moment, and what is it saying to you as a bioethicist?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It does seem a bit perverse for the federal government to resume executions in the middle of a pandemic while other systems throughout the world are looking at decarcerating inmates, looking at reexamination of some of their criminal justice structures in the middle of the pandemic. Our federal government is executing people and making its citizens witness to those executions while there's so many of us that are fearful of the virus. And also so many people who are out of work. So many people who are suffering otherwise and dying unnecessarily in the midst of the pandemic.\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11832085/justice-should-be-blind-an-ethicists-case-for-decarceration","authors":["11238","11626"],"categories":["news_457","news_6188","news_8"],"tags":["news_616","news_1629","news_27350","news_27504","news_22948","news_2687","news_3930","news_486","news_23"],"featImg":"news_11832681","label":"source_news_11832085"},"news_11701921":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11701921","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11701921","score":null,"sort":[1540756965000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"newsoms-california-business-holdings-could-pose-ethics-bind","title":"Newsom's California Business Holdings Could Pose Ethics Bind","publishDate":1540756965,"format":"standard","headTitle":"The California Report | KQED News","labelTerm":{},"content":"\u003cp>Before he was a politician, California Lt. Gov. Gavin Newsom was a businessman, and over the years he became a millionaire through his holdings in wineries, bars, restaurants, hotels and liquor stores.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Newsom, a Democrat, is now running for governor, and those business interests present an ethics challenge if he's elected as predicted and follows through on his vow to keep his holdings.\u003c/p>\n\u003caside class=\"alignright\">\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/forum/2010101867627/cox-newsom-face-off-in-final-california-gubernatorial-debate\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Cox, Newsom Face Off in Final California Gubernatorial Debate\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003c/aside>\n\u003cp>\"These are my babies, my life, my family. I can't do that. I can't sell them,\" Newsom told reporters during a recent bus tour. He has said he'll make decisions on how he'll balance business and government work after the Nov. 6 election.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The potential for blurred lines between business and government service has become especially resonant since President Donald Trump broke with tradition for U.S. presidents and chose not to divest from his extensive holdings. Newsom has been a harsh critic of the president's policies but has said little about this issue.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Newsom's hospitality businesses are heavily regulated by the state and could provide opportunities for interest groups to try to curry favor by renting facilities at Newsom's properties for events.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"You don't want government officials to be in a position where someone could reasonably doubt that the decision they made was based on their assessment of the public interest of California,\" said Kathleen Clark, a law professor specializing in government ethics at Washington University.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Government officials can avoid conflicts by selling their business interests and putting the proceeds in a blind trust, Clark said. Short of that, they can recuse themselves from decisions that might pose a conflict.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Trump's properties have become popular gathering places for political organizations and interest groups. That has changed expectations for government officials and likely will help California's next governor, whether it's Newsom or his Republican opponent, John Cox, who is also a millionaire businessman, said Dan Schnur, who teaches politics and communications at the University of Southern California and briefly led the state's ethics watchdog agency.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"Trump and his opponents have succeeded in defining ethics in almost a completely situational and partisan way,\" Schnur said. \"Unfortunately, that almost certainly oozes down to state level politics and government.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Newsom, 51, got his start in business with the help of family friend Gordon Getty, son of the late billionaire oil tycoon J. Paul Getty. With his financing, Newsom and Gordon Getty's son, Billy, opened a San Francisco wine shop in 1992 and later a restaurant.\u003c/p>\n\u003caside class=\"alignright\">\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/lowdown/24867/map-trumps-potential-conflicts-of-interest-around-the-world\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">MAP: Trump's Global Conflicts of Interest\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003c/aside>\n\u003cp>Those grew to a web of businesses known as the PlumpJack Group that includes four hotels; four Napa Valley wineries; several bars and restaurants; two wine and liquor stores in San Francisco; and an online liquor store.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When he was San Francisco's mayor, Newsom divested from his businesses in the city, as required by the city's charter. But he said as governor, he won't sell his stake, though nearly all his businesses are in California.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>On the GOP side, Cox has extensive investments, including publicly traded stocks and more than 2,000 apartments in the Midwest, along with a stake in a law and accounting firm he founded in the 1980s. Cox said he doesn't foresee a conflict because his businesses and properties are outside California.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As lieutenant governor, Newsom said he hasn't participated in PlumpJack's day-to-day operations or personnel decisions. His sister, Hilary, runs the company, though Newsom said he reviews financials and stops by big events, such as the release of a new wine vintage.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As governor, he said he's inclined to give up all involvement, but \"we'll have lawyers, smart folks look at that.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"I will do the right thing,\" Newsom said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Alcohol is heavily regulated, and issues involving it often reach the governor.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Outgoing Gov. Jerry Brown was asked to decide changes big and small. He signed, for example, legislation allowing wineries to share tasting room space with a craft brewery or distillery but vetoed a bill that would have allowed San Francisco and several other cities \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/arts/13841872/jerry-brown-vetoes-4am-nightlife-bill-for-california-cities\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">to push back the closing time for bars to 4 a.m\u003c/a>. Newsom's bars and restaurants in San Francisco and Palm Springs would have been affected.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The governor also appoints the director of the Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control, which grants liquor licenses and can revoke them or fine business owners for violations like selling to underage drinkers or people who are overly intoxicated.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>State law prohibits law-enforcement officers and state alcohol enforcers from owning liquor licenses but has no restrictions for the governor, said Marco Costales, a lawyer specializing in alcohol regulations at Nossaman LLP in Los Angeles.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Newsom could also face ethical questions if state lawmakers step into ongoing fights between Airbnb and hotel owners, who want the home-sharing platform to face the same taxes and regulations.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California ethics laws would require Newsom to avoid intervening in specific liquor proceedings or acting on legislation that benefits his businesses differently from the industry as a whole, said Bob Stern, who wrote the California Political Reform Act, which includes conflict-of-interest restrictions for public officials.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Former Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, who entered office with a vast fortune, put his assets in a blind trust, though he faced questions about whether it was truly blind because it was managed by his friend and longtime financial adviser. California politicians creating blind trusts disclose the assets they own when the trust is created and are prohibited from knowing about any new assets purchased.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Schwarzenegger took heat in 2005 when securities filings revealed he had a contract worth at least $1 million a year with a company that publishes fitness magazines, which derive income from ads for dietary supplements. As governor he vetoed a bill that would have imposed government regulations on the supplement industry. He eventually severed ties with the magazines.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In California, the governor can recuse himself from regulatory decisions but can't take a pass on legislation. Bills become law automatically if the governor does nothing, and there's no mechanism to cede authority to the lieutenant governor for reasons of conflict.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"A legislator can skip a vote,\" Schnur said. \"A governor cannot really skip a veto.\"\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"Newsom's hospitality businesses are heavily regulated by the state and could provide opportunities for interest groups to try to curry favor.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1540778216,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":28,"wordCount":1059},"headData":{"title":"Newsom's California Business Holdings Could Pose Ethics Bind | KQED","description":"Newsom's hospitality businesses are heavily regulated by the state and could provide opportunities for interest groups to try to curry favor.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":""},"disqusIdentifier":"11701921 https://ww2.kqed.org/news/?p=11701921","disqusUrl":"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/2018/10/28/newsoms-california-business-holdings-could-pose-ethics-bind/","disqusTitle":"Newsom's California Business Holdings Could Pose Ethics Bind","source":"Associated Press","nprByline":"Jonathan J. Cooper\u003cbr>\u003cstrong>Associated Press\u003c/strong>","path":"/news/11701921/newsoms-california-business-holdings-could-pose-ethics-bind","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Before he was a politician, California Lt. Gov. Gavin Newsom was a businessman, and over the years he became a millionaire through his holdings in wineries, bars, restaurants, hotels and liquor stores.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Newsom, a Democrat, is now running for governor, and those business interests present an ethics challenge if he's elected as predicted and follows through on his vow to keep his holdings.\u003c/p>\n\u003caside class=\"alignright\">\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/forum/2010101867627/cox-newsom-face-off-in-final-california-gubernatorial-debate\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Cox, Newsom Face Off in Final California Gubernatorial Debate\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003c/aside>\n\u003cp>\"These are my babies, my life, my family. I can't do that. I can't sell them,\" Newsom told reporters during a recent bus tour. He has said he'll make decisions on how he'll balance business and government work after the Nov. 6 election.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The potential for blurred lines between business and government service has become especially resonant since President Donald Trump broke with tradition for U.S. presidents and chose not to divest from his extensive holdings. Newsom has been a harsh critic of the president's policies but has said little about this issue.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Newsom's hospitality businesses are heavily regulated by the state and could provide opportunities for interest groups to try to curry favor by renting facilities at Newsom's properties for events.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"You don't want government officials to be in a position where someone could reasonably doubt that the decision they made was based on their assessment of the public interest of California,\" said Kathleen Clark, a law professor specializing in government ethics at Washington University.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Government officials can avoid conflicts by selling their business interests and putting the proceeds in a blind trust, Clark said. Short of that, they can recuse themselves from decisions that might pose a conflict.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Trump's properties have become popular gathering places for political organizations and interest groups. That has changed expectations for government officials and likely will help California's next governor, whether it's Newsom or his Republican opponent, John Cox, who is also a millionaire businessman, said Dan Schnur, who teaches politics and communications at the University of Southern California and briefly led the state's ethics watchdog agency.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"Trump and his opponents have succeeded in defining ethics in almost a completely situational and partisan way,\" Schnur said. \"Unfortunately, that almost certainly oozes down to state level politics and government.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Newsom, 51, got his start in business with the help of family friend Gordon Getty, son of the late billionaire oil tycoon J. Paul Getty. With his financing, Newsom and Gordon Getty's son, Billy, opened a San Francisco wine shop in 1992 and later a restaurant.\u003c/p>\n\u003caside class=\"alignright\">\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/lowdown/24867/map-trumps-potential-conflicts-of-interest-around-the-world\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">MAP: Trump's Global Conflicts of Interest\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003c/aside>\n\u003cp>Those grew to a web of businesses known as the PlumpJack Group that includes four hotels; four Napa Valley wineries; several bars and restaurants; two wine and liquor stores in San Francisco; and an online liquor store.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When he was San Francisco's mayor, Newsom divested from his businesses in the city, as required by the city's charter. But he said as governor, he won't sell his stake, though nearly all his businesses are in California.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>On the GOP side, Cox has extensive investments, including publicly traded stocks and more than 2,000 apartments in the Midwest, along with a stake in a law and accounting firm he founded in the 1980s. Cox said he doesn't foresee a conflict because his businesses and properties are outside California.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As lieutenant governor, Newsom said he hasn't participated in PlumpJack's day-to-day operations or personnel decisions. His sister, Hilary, runs the company, though Newsom said he reviews financials and stops by big events, such as the release of a new wine vintage.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As governor, he said he's inclined to give up all involvement, but \"we'll have lawyers, smart folks look at that.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"I will do the right thing,\" Newsom said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Alcohol is heavily regulated, and issues involving it often reach the governor.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Outgoing Gov. Jerry Brown was asked to decide changes big and small. He signed, for example, legislation allowing wineries to share tasting room space with a craft brewery or distillery but vetoed a bill that would have allowed San Francisco and several other cities \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/arts/13841872/jerry-brown-vetoes-4am-nightlife-bill-for-california-cities\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">to push back the closing time for bars to 4 a.m\u003c/a>. Newsom's bars and restaurants in San Francisco and Palm Springs would have been affected.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The governor also appoints the director of the Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control, which grants liquor licenses and can revoke them or fine business owners for violations like selling to underage drinkers or people who are overly intoxicated.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>State law prohibits law-enforcement officers and state alcohol enforcers from owning liquor licenses but has no restrictions for the governor, said Marco Costales, a lawyer specializing in alcohol regulations at Nossaman LLP in Los Angeles.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Newsom could also face ethical questions if state lawmakers step into ongoing fights between Airbnb and hotel owners, who want the home-sharing platform to face the same taxes and regulations.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California ethics laws would require Newsom to avoid intervening in specific liquor proceedings or acting on legislation that benefits his businesses differently from the industry as a whole, said Bob Stern, who wrote the California Political Reform Act, which includes conflict-of-interest restrictions for public officials.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Former Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, who entered office with a vast fortune, put his assets in a blind trust, though he faced questions about whether it was truly blind because it was managed by his friend and longtime financial adviser. California politicians creating blind trusts disclose the assets they own when the trust is created and are prohibited from knowing about any new assets purchased.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Schwarzenegger took heat in 2005 when securities filings revealed he had a contract worth at least $1 million a year with a company that publishes fitness magazines, which derive income from ads for dietary supplements. As governor he vetoed a bill that would have imposed government regulations on the supplement industry. He eventually severed ties with the magazines.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In California, the governor can recuse himself from regulatory decisions but can't take a pass on legislation. Bills become law automatically if the governor does nothing, and there's no mechanism to cede authority to the lieutenant governor for reasons of conflict.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"A legislator can skip a vote,\" Schnur said. \"A governor cannot really skip a veto.\"\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11701921/newsoms-california-business-holdings-could-pose-ethics-bind","authors":["byline_news_11701921"],"programs":["news_72"],"categories":["news_8","news_13"],"tags":["news_20191","news_22948","news_19542","news_16","news_2601","news_23202","news_20737"],"featImg":"news_11701926","label":"source_news_11701921"},"news_11660878":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11660878","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11660878","score":null,"sort":[1523379686000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"practice-safe-cs-a-push-to-give-computer-science-class-a-moral-compass","title":"Practice Safe CS: A Push to Give Computer Science Class a Moral Compass","publishDate":1523379686,"format":"audio","headTitle":"The California Report | KQED News","labelTerm":{"term":72,"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp>Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11659835\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">testimony on Capitol Hill\u003c/a> this week is only the latest focal point in a national conversation about the perils of technology.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As the ethical questions surrounding technology become unavoidable, three Stanford professors are thinking about the kind of ethics education that future engineers will need.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Pushing the boundaries of students’ thinking\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>On a Tuesday afternoon at the Stanford campus, the professors are sitting around a table crowded with laptops and papers. Mehran Sahami, a computer science professor famous on campus for getting Mark Zuckerberg to \u003ca href=\"https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/02/the-joy-of-teaching-computer-science-in-the-age-of-facebook/283879/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">visit his class\u003c/a> a few years in a row, is at the head of the table. Next to him sits political science professor Rob Reich, infamous for lectures that force students to think critically about their own ethical choices.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11661017\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg class=\"wp-image-11661017 size-medium\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/04/Sahami-teaching-800x376.jpeg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"376\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2018/04/Sahami-teaching-800x376.jpeg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2018/04/Sahami-teaching-160x75.jpeg 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2018/04/Sahami-teaching-1020x480.jpeg 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2018/04/Sahami-teaching-1180x555.jpeg 1180w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2018/04/Sahami-teaching-960x452.jpeg 960w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2018/04/Sahami-teaching-240x113.jpeg 240w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2018/04/Sahami-teaching-375x176.jpeg 375w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2018/04/Sahami-teaching-520x245.jpeg 520w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2018/04/Sahami-teaching.jpeg 1700w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Stanford University computer science professor Mehran Sahami teaching a course. Courtesy: The Stanford Daily \u003ccite>(The Stanford Daily)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Together with political science professor Jeremy Weinstein, they’re creating a new computer science ethics course. It’s an idea they’ve talked about for years, but now feel they can’t put off any longer.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I'm tired of having engineers figure stuff out on our behalf,” Reich says. “Allowing ourselves to inhabit a world where engineers are increasingly deciding our future, without the engineers being aware of the ethical responsibilities and considerations of the very technologies they're pioneering, is a world that I don't think any of us wants to live in.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The professors will be developing the curriculum for the class over the next few months. On this day they’re hashing out a unit about data collection and privacy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Research assistant Michael Dworsky gets them started with a case study. “Facebook has been using facial recognition for a while,” says the fourth-year student, who’s planning to take a job with the social media giant after he graduates.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He explains Facebook is developing technologies that can identify users by clothing, posture or gait; others allow advertisers to target people \u003ca href=\"https://patents.google.com/patent/US20150242679\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">based on their facial expressions\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The professors start riffing about the different issues this brings up. Sahami points out that this case study raises questions about when \u003ca href=\"https://www.wsj.com/articles/consumer-groups-file-ftc-complaint-against-facebook-1523025141\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">public information becomes private.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“If I'm at a supermarket and I'm in line to buy something, the people around me can see what I'm buying in that one basket and I probably don't care,” Sahami says. “But if I just take that information now aggregated over my shopping lifetime, there is data that I probably would have a reasonable belief to be private.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Then Reich jumps in: “I'm imagining that part of my task in this section will be to remind students that privacy was a value worth caring about in the first place.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Sahami says this kind of interdisciplinary collaboration between computer science and other disciplines is rare. There have been CS ethics courses since he was a student at Stanford some 30 years ago, but he says the courses haven’t always kept pace with innovation. The courses usually focus on philosophy or public policy, with a touch of tech, or the engineering side of things with a hint of ethics. The professors hope this class bring the disciplines together.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We just want to push the boundaries of students’ thinking,” Sahami says.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Students Rise Up\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Across campus, a handful of Stanford undergrads are sitting around a dorm lounge, thinking about all this, too. They meet a couple of times a month and try to figure out how to give computer science a moral compass.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Senior Sawyer Birnbaum helped start the group. He explains that at Stanford, CS students are required to meet a “\u003ca href=\"https://ughb.stanford.edu/courses-and-planning/approved-courses/technology-society-courses-2017-18\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Technology in Society\u003c/a>” requirement, but it’s really broad.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Probably by far the majority of CS students at Stanford go through their four years here without like really taking any classes that actually force them to think about ethical questions or engage in that kind of ethical analysis,” he says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11660982\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg class=\"wp-image-11660982 size-medium\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/04/CS-ethics-discussion1-e1523321015751-800x535.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"535\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2018/04/CS-ethics-discussion1-e1523321015751-800x535.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2018/04/CS-ethics-discussion1-e1523321015751-160x107.jpg 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2018/04/CS-ethics-discussion1-e1523321015751-1020x682.jpg 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2018/04/CS-ethics-discussion1-e1523321015751-1180x789.jpg 1180w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2018/04/CS-ethics-discussion1-e1523321015751-960x642.jpg 960w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2018/04/CS-ethics-discussion1-e1523321015751-240x161.jpg 240w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2018/04/CS-ethics-discussion1-e1523321015751-375x251.jpg 375w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2018/04/CS-ethics-discussion1-e1523321015751-520x348.jpg 520w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2018/04/CS-ethics-discussion1-e1523321015751.jpg 1843w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Stanford students Sawyer Birnbaum, Andrew Lesh and Axelle Talma talk ethics and CS. \u003ccite>(Vanessa Rancaño/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The students float different ways to address that, including putting in place more stringent requirements and creating ethics courses tailored to specific fields within computer science, but they spend most of the time talking about the need for interdisciplinary instruction.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Student Noah Arthurs says he became frustrated by what he saw as a trade-school mindset in his computer science classes. “They were so industry-oriented,” he says. “You're just learning skills.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He says the CS department lacked the kind of intellectual rigor he found in other departments. He came to see it as an extension of the tech industry, rather than an academic discipline.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The professors will always tell you, ‘You're learning the algorithm that Facebook uses to do facial recognition, or you're learning the algorithm that Google uses to tell you search results,’ ” he says. “So it's like there's always this looming industry that everything is pointing you towards.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Biology majors can consider a career in bioethics, he points out, so why not a similar specialty for computer science students? He wants to see some option for CS students, aside from working as an engineer at one of the big Silicon Valley firms or launching a startup.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For his part, Reich believes there's support for interdisciplinary collaboration. He says the computer science faculty he knows don't want Stanford University to become a technical university.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“They want the liberal arts tradition to remain at Stanford,” he says. “So as nearly 50 percent of the undergraduate body is majoring in computer science, the computer science faculty themselves want to ensure that (those students) have a broad education.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The new course takes a step in that direction, Reich says, but it's only a piece of what's needed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Sometimes I dream of the possibility that we could develop an interdisciplinary major,” he says. Or at the least a concentration for people who are interested in the intersection of ethics, public policy and engineering, “rather than deciding that the engineers do what they do, the ethicists do what they do, and the public policy people can catch up to where the engineers are a decade from now.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The professors are hoping to roll out the class in January. One title they're considering? Practice Safe CS.\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"With the perils of tech in plain view, professors and students reckon with the future of CS education. ","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1523395967,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":28,"wordCount":1113},"headData":{"title":"Practice Safe CS: A Push to Give Computer Science Class a Moral Compass | KQED","description":"With the perils of tech in plain view, professors and students reckon with the future of CS education. ","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":""},"disqusIdentifier":"11660878 https://ww2.kqed.org/news/?p=11660878","disqusUrl":"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/2018/04/10/practice-safe-cs-a-push-to-give-computer-science-class-a-moral-compass/","disqusTitle":"Practice Safe CS: A Push to Give Computer Science Class a Moral Compass","audioUrl":"https://www.kqed.org/.stream/anon/radio/RDnews/2018/04/RancanoCSEthics.mp3","path":"/news/11660878/practice-safe-cs-a-push-to-give-computer-science-class-a-moral-compass","audioDuration":267000,"audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11659835\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">testimony on Capitol Hill\u003c/a> this week is only the latest focal point in a national conversation about the perils of technology.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As the ethical questions surrounding technology become unavoidable, three Stanford professors are thinking about the kind of ethics education that future engineers will need.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Pushing the boundaries of students’ thinking\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>On a Tuesday afternoon at the Stanford campus, the professors are sitting around a table crowded with laptops and papers. Mehran Sahami, a computer science professor famous on campus for getting Mark Zuckerberg to \u003ca href=\"https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/02/the-joy-of-teaching-computer-science-in-the-age-of-facebook/283879/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">visit his class\u003c/a> a few years in a row, is at the head of the table. Next to him sits political science professor Rob Reich, infamous for lectures that force students to think critically about their own ethical choices.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11661017\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg class=\"wp-image-11661017 size-medium\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/04/Sahami-teaching-800x376.jpeg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"376\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2018/04/Sahami-teaching-800x376.jpeg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2018/04/Sahami-teaching-160x75.jpeg 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2018/04/Sahami-teaching-1020x480.jpeg 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2018/04/Sahami-teaching-1180x555.jpeg 1180w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2018/04/Sahami-teaching-960x452.jpeg 960w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2018/04/Sahami-teaching-240x113.jpeg 240w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2018/04/Sahami-teaching-375x176.jpeg 375w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2018/04/Sahami-teaching-520x245.jpeg 520w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2018/04/Sahami-teaching.jpeg 1700w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Stanford University computer science professor Mehran Sahami teaching a course. Courtesy: The Stanford Daily \u003ccite>(The Stanford Daily)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Together with political science professor Jeremy Weinstein, they’re creating a new computer science ethics course. It’s an idea they’ve talked about for years, but now feel they can’t put off any longer.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I'm tired of having engineers figure stuff out on our behalf,” Reich says. “Allowing ourselves to inhabit a world where engineers are increasingly deciding our future, without the engineers being aware of the ethical responsibilities and considerations of the very technologies they're pioneering, is a world that I don't think any of us wants to live in.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The professors will be developing the curriculum for the class over the next few months. On this day they’re hashing out a unit about data collection and privacy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Research assistant Michael Dworsky gets them started with a case study. “Facebook has been using facial recognition for a while,” says the fourth-year student, who’s planning to take a job with the social media giant after he graduates.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He explains Facebook is developing technologies that can identify users by clothing, posture or gait; others allow advertisers to target people \u003ca href=\"https://patents.google.com/patent/US20150242679\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">based on their facial expressions\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The professors start riffing about the different issues this brings up. Sahami points out that this case study raises questions about when \u003ca href=\"https://www.wsj.com/articles/consumer-groups-file-ftc-complaint-against-facebook-1523025141\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">public information becomes private.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“If I'm at a supermarket and I'm in line to buy something, the people around me can see what I'm buying in that one basket and I probably don't care,” Sahami says. “But if I just take that information now aggregated over my shopping lifetime, there is data that I probably would have a reasonable belief to be private.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Then Reich jumps in: “I'm imagining that part of my task in this section will be to remind students that privacy was a value worth caring about in the first place.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Sahami says this kind of interdisciplinary collaboration between computer science and other disciplines is rare. There have been CS ethics courses since he was a student at Stanford some 30 years ago, but he says the courses haven’t always kept pace with innovation. The courses usually focus on philosophy or public policy, with a touch of tech, or the engineering side of things with a hint of ethics. The professors hope this class bring the disciplines together.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We just want to push the boundaries of students’ thinking,” Sahami says.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Students Rise Up\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Across campus, a handful of Stanford undergrads are sitting around a dorm lounge, thinking about all this, too. They meet a couple of times a month and try to figure out how to give computer science a moral compass.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Senior Sawyer Birnbaum helped start the group. He explains that at Stanford, CS students are required to meet a “\u003ca href=\"https://ughb.stanford.edu/courses-and-planning/approved-courses/technology-society-courses-2017-18\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Technology in Society\u003c/a>” requirement, but it’s really broad.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Probably by far the majority of CS students at Stanford go through their four years here without like really taking any classes that actually force them to think about ethical questions or engage in that kind of ethical analysis,” he says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11660982\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg class=\"wp-image-11660982 size-medium\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/04/CS-ethics-discussion1-e1523321015751-800x535.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"535\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2018/04/CS-ethics-discussion1-e1523321015751-800x535.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2018/04/CS-ethics-discussion1-e1523321015751-160x107.jpg 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2018/04/CS-ethics-discussion1-e1523321015751-1020x682.jpg 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2018/04/CS-ethics-discussion1-e1523321015751-1180x789.jpg 1180w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2018/04/CS-ethics-discussion1-e1523321015751-960x642.jpg 960w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2018/04/CS-ethics-discussion1-e1523321015751-240x161.jpg 240w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2018/04/CS-ethics-discussion1-e1523321015751-375x251.jpg 375w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2018/04/CS-ethics-discussion1-e1523321015751-520x348.jpg 520w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2018/04/CS-ethics-discussion1-e1523321015751.jpg 1843w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Stanford students Sawyer Birnbaum, Andrew Lesh and Axelle Talma talk ethics and CS. \u003ccite>(Vanessa Rancaño/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The students float different ways to address that, including putting in place more stringent requirements and creating ethics courses tailored to specific fields within computer science, but they spend most of the time talking about the need for interdisciplinary instruction.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Student Noah Arthurs says he became frustrated by what he saw as a trade-school mindset in his computer science classes. “They were so industry-oriented,” he says. “You're just learning skills.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He says the CS department lacked the kind of intellectual rigor he found in other departments. He came to see it as an extension of the tech industry, rather than an academic discipline.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The professors will always tell you, ‘You're learning the algorithm that Facebook uses to do facial recognition, or you're learning the algorithm that Google uses to tell you search results,’ ” he says. “So it's like there's always this looming industry that everything is pointing you towards.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Biology majors can consider a career in bioethics, he points out, so why not a similar specialty for computer science students? He wants to see some option for CS students, aside from working as an engineer at one of the big Silicon Valley firms or launching a startup.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For his part, Reich believes there's support for interdisciplinary collaboration. He says the computer science faculty he knows don't want Stanford University to become a technical university.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“They want the liberal arts tradition to remain at Stanford,” he says. “So as nearly 50 percent of the undergraduate body is majoring in computer science, the computer science faculty themselves want to ensure that (those students) have a broad education.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The new course takes a step in that direction, Reich says, but it's only a piece of what's needed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Sometimes I dream of the possibility that we could develop an interdisciplinary major,” he says. Or at the least a concentration for people who are interested in the intersection of ethics, public policy and engineering, “rather than deciding that the engineers do what they do, the ethicists do what they do, and the public policy people can catch up to where the engineers are a decade from now.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The professors are hoping to roll out the class in January. One title they're considering? Practice Safe CS.\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11660878/practice-safe-cs-a-push-to-give-computer-science-class-a-moral-compass","authors":["11276"],"programs":["news_72"],"categories":["news_18540","news_8","news_248"],"tags":["news_22652","news_22948","news_353","news_178"],"featImg":"news_11661015","label":"news_72"}},"programsReducer":{"possible":{"id":"possible","title":"Possible","info":"Possible is hosted by entrepreneur Reid Hoffman and writer Aria Finger. Together in Possible, Hoffman and Finger lead enlightening discussions about building a brighter collective future. The show features interviews with visionary guests like Trevor Noah, Sam Altman and Janette Sadik-Khan. Possible paints an optimistic portrait of the world we can create through science, policy, business, art and our shared humanity. It asks: What if everything goes right for once? How can we get there? Each episode also includes a short fiction story generated by advanced AI GPT-4, serving as a thought-provoking springboard to speculate how humanity could leverage technology for good.","airtime":"SUN 2pm","imageSrc":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/possible-5gxfizEbKOJ-pbF5ASgxrs_.1400x1400.jpg","officialWebsiteLink":"https://www.possible.fm/","meta":{"site":"news","source":"Possible"},"link":"/radio/program/possible","subscribe":{"apple":"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/possible/id1677184070","spotify":"https://open.spotify.com/show/730YpdUSNlMyPQwNnyjp4k"}},"1a":{"id":"1a","title":"1A","info":"1A is home to the national conversation. 1A brings on great guests and frames the best debate in ways that make you think, share and engage.","airtime":"MON-THU 11pm-12am","imageSrc":"https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/04/1a.jpg","officialWebsiteLink":"https://the1a.org/","meta":{"site":"news","source":"npr"},"link":"/radio/program/1a","subscribe":{"npr":"https://rpb3r.app.goo.gl/RBrW","apple":"https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?s=143441&mt=2&id=1188724250&at=11l79Y&ct=nprdirectory","tuneIn":"https://tunein.com/radio/1A-p947376/","rss":"https://feeds.npr.org/510316/podcast.xml"}},"all-things-considered":{"id":"all-things-considered","title":"All Things Considered","info":"Every weekday, \u003cem>All Things Considered\u003c/em> hosts Robert Siegel, Audie Cornish, Ari Shapiro, and Kelly McEvers present the program's trademark mix of news, interviews, commentaries, reviews, and offbeat features. 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And we’ll do it with your help! You ask the questions. You decide what Bay Curious investigates. And you join us on the journey to find the answers.","imageSrc":"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/powerpress/1440_0017_BayCurious_iTunesTile_01.jpg","imageAlt":"\"KQED Bay Curious","officialWebsiteLink":"/news/series/baycurious","meta":{"site":"news","source":"kqed","order":"4"},"link":"/podcasts/baycurious","subscribe":{"apple":"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/bay-curious/id1172473406","npr":"https://www.npr.org/podcasts/500557090/bay-curious","rss":"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/category/bay-curious-podcast/feed/podcast","google":"https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly93dzIua3FlZC5vcmcvbmV3cy9jYXRlZ29yeS9iYXktY3VyaW91cy1wb2RjYXN0L2ZlZWQvcG9kY2FzdA","stitcher":"https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/kqed/bay-curious","spotify":"https://open.spotify.com/show/6O76IdmhixfijmhTZLIJ8k"}},"bbc-world-service":{"id":"bbc-world-service","title":"BBC World Service","info":"The day's top stories from BBC News compiled twice daily in the week, once at weekends.","airtime":"MON-FRI 9pm-10pm, TUE-FRI 1am-2am","imageSrc":"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/2021/10/BBC_1400.jpg","officialWebsiteLink":"https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/live:bbc_world_service","meta":{"site":"news","source":"BBC World Service"},"link":"/radio/program/bbc-world-service","subscribe":{"apple":"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/global-news-podcast/id135067274?mt=2","tuneIn":"https://tunein.com/radio/BBC-World-Service-p455581/","rss":"https://podcasts.files.bbci.co.uk/p02nq0gn.rss"}},"code-switch-life-kit":{"id":"code-switch-life-kit","title":"Code Switch / Life Kit","info":"\u003cem>Code Switch\u003c/em>, which listeners will hear in the first part of the hour, has fearless and much-needed conversations about race. Hosted by journalists of color, the show tackles the subject of race head-on, exploring how it impacts every part of society — from politics and pop culture to history, sports and more.\u003cbr />\u003cbr />\u003cem>Life Kit\u003c/em>, which will be in the second part of the hour, guides you through spaces and feelings no one prepares you for — from finances to mental health, from workplace microaggressions to imposter syndrome, from relationships to parenting. The show features experts with real world experience and shares their knowledge. Because everyone needs a little help being human.\u003cbr />\u003cbr />\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/podcasts/510312/codeswitch\">\u003cem>Code Switch\u003c/em> offical site and podcast\u003c/a>\u003cbr />\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/lifekit\">\u003cem>Life Kit\u003c/em> offical site and podcast\u003c/a>\u003cbr />","airtime":"SUN 9pm-10pm","imageSrc":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/CodeSwitchLifeKit_StationGraphics_300x300EmailGraphic.png","meta":{"site":"radio","source":"npr"},"link":"/radio/program/code-switch-life-kit","subscribe":{"apple":"https://podcasts.apple.com/podcast/1112190608?mt=2&at=11l79Y&ct=nprdirectory","google":"https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cubnByLm9yZy9yc3MvcG9kY2FzdC5waHA_aWQ9NTEwMzEy","spotify":"https://open.spotify.com/show/3bExJ9JQpkwNhoHvaIIuyV","rss":"https://feeds.npr.org/510312/podcast.xml"}},"commonwealth-club":{"id":"commonwealth-club","title":"Commonwealth Club of California Podcast","info":"The Commonwealth Club of California is the nation's oldest and largest public affairs forum. As a non-partisan forum, The Club brings to the public airwaves diverse viewpoints on important topics. The Club's weekly radio broadcast - the oldest in the U.S., dating back to 1924 - is carried across the nation on public radio stations and is now podcasting. Our website archive features audio of our recent programs, as well as selected speeches from our long and distinguished history. This podcast feed is usually updated twice a week and is always un-edited.","airtime":"THU 10pm, FRI 1am","imageSrc":"https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2019/07/commonwealthclub.jpg","officialWebsiteLink":"https://www.commonwealthclub.org/podcasts","meta":{"site":"news","source":"Commonwealth Club of California"},"link":"/radio/program/commonwealth-club","subscribe":{"apple":"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/commonwealth-club-of-california-podcast/id976334034?mt=2","google":"https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cDovL3d3dy5jb21tb253ZWFsdGhjbHViLm9yZy9hdWRpby9wb2RjYXN0L3dlZWtseS54bWw","tuneIn":"https://tunein.com/radio/Commonwealth-Club-of-California-p1060/"}},"considerthis":{"id":"considerthis","title":"Consider This","tagline":"Make sense of the day","info":"Make sense of the day. Every weekday afternoon, Consider This helps you consider the major stories of the day in less than 15 minutes, featuring the reporting and storytelling resources of NPR. Plus, KQED’s Bianca Taylor brings you the local KQED news you need to know.","imageSrc":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/Consider-This_3000_V3-copy-scaled-1.jpg","imageAlt":"Consider This from NPR and KQED","officialWebsiteLink":"/podcasts/considerthis","meta":{"site":"news","source":"kqed","order":"7"},"link":"/podcasts/considerthis","subscribe":{"apple":"https://podcasts.apple.com/podcast/id1503226625?mt=2&at=11l79Y&ct=nprdirectory","npr":"https://rpb3r.app.goo.gl/coronavirusdaily","google":"https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5ucHIub3JnLzUxMDM1NS9wb2RjYXN0LnhtbA","spotify":"https://open.spotify.com/show/3Z6JdCS2d0eFEpXHKI6WqH"}},"forum":{"id":"forum","title":"Forum","tagline":"The conversation starts here","info":"KQED’s live call-in program discussing local, state, national and international issues, as well as in-depth interviews.","airtime":"MON-FRI 9am-11am, 10pm-11pm","imageSrc":"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/2022/06/forum-logo-900x900tile-1.gif","imageAlt":"KQED Forum with Mina Kim and Alexis Madrigal","officialWebsiteLink":"/forum","meta":{"site":"news","source":"kqed","order":"8"},"link":"/forum","subscribe":{"apple":"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/kqeds-forum/id73329719","google":"https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vS1FJTkM5NTU3MzgxNjMz","npr":"https://www.npr.org/podcasts/432307980/forum","stitcher":"https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/kqedfm-kqeds-forum-podcast","rss":"https://feeds.megaphone.fm/KQINC9557381633"}},"freakonomics-radio":{"id":"freakonomics-radio","title":"Freakonomics Radio","info":"Freakonomics Radio is a one-hour award-winning podcast and public-radio project hosted by Stephen Dubner, with co-author Steve Levitt as a regular guest. 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