The Hidden History of Fort Scott in San Francisco's Presidio
Dialing 'POP-CORN' Once Gave You the Time
How Bay Area Italians Were Treated as 'Enemy Aliens' During WWII
How San Francisco’s Anchor Brewing Started the Craft Beer Craze
How San Francisco's Anchor Brewing Company Could Still Stay Open
Why Are There Garages on Bay Area Homes Built Before Cars Existed?
Homes for All: Richmond's 1950s Attempt at Integrated Housing
Why Doesn't BART Go More Places?
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He was chosen for a spring 2017 residency at the Mesa Refuge to advance his research on California salmon.\r\n\r\nEmail Dan at: \u003ca href=\"mailto:dbrekke@kqed.org\">dbrekke@kqed.org\u003c/a>\r\n\r\n\u003cstrong>Twitter:\u003c/strong> \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/danbrekke\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">twitter.com/danbrekke\u003c/a>\r\n\u003cstrong>Facebook:\u003c/strong> \u003ca href=\"https://www.facebook.com/danbrekke\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">www.facebook.com/danbrekke\u003c/a>\r\n\u003cstrong>LinkedIn:\u003c/strong> \u003ca href=\"https://www.linkedin.com/in/danbrekke\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">www.linkedin.com/in/danbrekke\u003c/a>","avatar":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/c8126230345efca3f7aa89b1a402be45?s=600&d=mm&r=g","twitter":"danbrekke","facebook":null,"instagram":"https://www.instagram.com/dan.brekke/","linkedin":"https://www.linkedin.com/in/danbrekke/","sites":[{"site":"news","roles":["administrator","create_posts"]},{"site":"stateofhealth","roles":["editor"]},{"site":"science","roles":["editor"]},{"site":"quest","roles":["contributor"]},{"site":"food","roles":["contributor"]},{"site":"forum","roles":["contributor"]},{"site":"liveblog","roles":["editor"]}],"headData":{"title":"Dan Brekke | KQED","description":"KQED Editor and Reporter","ogImgSrc":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/c8126230345efca3f7aa89b1a402be45?s=600&d=mm&r=g","twImgSrc":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/c8126230345efca3f7aa89b1a402be45?s=600&d=mm&r=g"},"isLoading":false,"link":"/author/danbrekke"},"afont":{"type":"authors","id":"8637","meta":{"index":"authors_1591205172","id":"8637","found":true},"name":"Amanda Font","firstName":"Amanda","lastName":"Font","slug":"afont","email":"afont@kqed.org","display_author_email":false,"staff_mastheads":["news"],"title":"KQED Contributor","bio":"Amanda Font is a producer on the \u003cem>Bay Curious\u003c/em> podcast, and the host and co-producer of the series \u003cem>Audible Cosmos\u003c/em>. She previously worked as director of \u003cem>The California Report Magazine\u003c/em>. She grew up in the deserts of Southern California and moved north for the trees. 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She previously reported on public health and city government at the San Francisco Examiner, and before that, she covered statewide education policy for EdSource. Her reporting has won multiple local, state and national awards. Sydney is a graduate of the University of California, Berkeley and lives in San Francisco.","avatar":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/97855f2719b72ad6190b7c535fe642c8?s=600&d=blank&r=g","twitter":"sydneyfjohnson","facebook":null,"instagram":null,"linkedin":null,"sites":[{"site":"news","roles":["editor"]}],"headData":{"title":"Sydney Johnson | KQED","description":"KQED Reporter","ogImgSrc":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/97855f2719b72ad6190b7c535fe642c8?s=600&d=blank&r=g","twImgSrc":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/97855f2719b72ad6190b7c535fe642c8?s=600&d=blank&r=g"},"isLoading":false,"link":"/author/sjohnson"},"pbartolone":{"type":"authors","id":"11879","meta":{"index":"authors_1591205172","id":"11879","found":true},"name":"Pauline Bartolone","firstName":"Pauline","lastName":"Bartolone","slug":"pbartolone","email":"pbartolone@kqed.org","display_author_email":false,"staff_mastheads":[],"title":"KQED Contributor","bio":"Pauline Bartolone has been a journalist for two decades, specializing in longform audio storytelling. 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Her other passions are crafts (now done in collaboration with her daughter) and the Brazilian martial art of capoeira.","avatar":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/95001c30374b0d3878007af9cf1e120a?s=600&d=blank&r=g","twitter":"pbartolone","facebook":null,"instagram":null,"linkedin":null,"sites":[{"site":"news","roles":["editor"]},{"site":"podcasts","roles":["subscriber"]}],"headData":{"title":"Pauline Bartolone | KQED","description":"KQED Contributor","ogImgSrc":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/95001c30374b0d3878007af9cf1e120a?s=600&d=blank&r=g","twImgSrc":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/95001c30374b0d3878007af9cf1e120a?s=600&d=blank&r=g"},"isLoading":false,"link":"/author/pbartolone"}},"breakingNewsReducer":{},"campaignFinanceReducer":{},"firebase":{"requesting":{},"requested":{},"timestamps":{},"data":{},"ordered":{},"auth":{"isLoaded":false,"isEmpty":true},"authError":null,"profile":{"isLoaded":false,"isEmpty":true},"listeners":{"byId":{},"allIds":[]},"isInitializing":false,"errors":[]},"navBarReducer":{"navBarId":"news","fullView":true,"showPlayer":false},"navMenuReducer":{"menus":[{"key":"menu1","items":[{"name":"News","link":"/","type":"title"},{"name":"Politics","link":"/politics"},{"name":"Science","link":"/science"},{"name":"Education","link":"/educationnews"},{"name":"Housing","link":"/housing"},{"name":"Immigration","link":"/immigration"},{"name":"Criminal Justice","link":"/criminaljustice"},{"name":"Silicon Valley","link":"/siliconvalley"},{"name":"Forum","link":"/forum"},{"name":"The California Report","link":"/californiareport"}]},{"key":"menu2","items":[{"name":"Arts & Culture","link":"/arts","type":"title"},{"name":"Critics’ Picks","link":"/thedolist"},{"name":"Cultural Commentary","link":"/artscommentary"},{"name":"Food & Drink","link":"/food"},{"name":"Bay Area Hip-Hop","link":"/bayareahiphop"},{"name":"Rebel Girls","link":"/rebelgirls"},{"name":"Arts Video","link":"/artsvideos"}]},{"key":"menu3","items":[{"name":"Podcasts","link":"/podcasts","type":"title"},{"name":"Bay Curious","link":"/podcasts/baycurious"},{"name":"Rightnowish","link":"/podcasts/rightnowish"},{"name":"The Bay","link":"/podcasts/thebay"},{"name":"On Our Watch","link":"/podcasts/onourwatch"},{"name":"Mindshift","link":"/podcasts/mindshift"},{"name":"Consider This","link":"/podcasts/considerthis"},{"name":"Political Breakdown","link":"/podcasts/politicalbreakdown"}]},{"key":"menu4","items":[{"name":"Live Radio","link":"/radio","type":"title"},{"name":"TV","link":"/tv","type":"title"},{"name":"Events","link":"/events","type":"title"},{"name":"For Educators","link":"/education","type":"title"},{"name":"Support KQED","link":"/support","type":"title"},{"name":"About","link":"/about","type":"title"},{"name":"Help Center","link":"https://kqed-helpcenter.kqed.org/s","type":"title"}]}]},"pagesReducer":{},"postsReducer":{"stream_live":{"type":"live","id":"stream_live","audioUrl":"https://streams.kqed.org/kqedradio","title":"Live Stream","excerpt":"Live Stream information currently unavailable.","link":"/radio","featImg":"","label":{"name":"KQED Live","link":"/"}},"stream_kqedNewscast":{"type":"posts","id":"stream_kqedNewscast","audioUrl":"https://www.kqed.org/.stream/anon/radio/RDnews/newscast.mp3?_=1","title":"KQED Newscast","featImg":"","label":{"name":"88.5 FM","link":"/"}},"news_11983858":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11983858","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11983858","score":null,"sort":[1714039234000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"alameda-the-island-that-almost-wasnt","title":"Alameda: The Island That Almost Wasn’t","publishDate":1714039234,"format":"image","headTitle":"Alameda: The Island That Almost Wasn’t | KQED","labelTerm":{},"content":"\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The city of Alameda has all the sure signs of an island. To get there, you have to use a bridge, a tunnel or a boat. Locals talk about going “on and off island.” And residents, like Nate Puckett, wear Alameda-themed T-shirts that say “Islander.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I don’t leave the island for, like, weeks,” says Puckett, who lives, works and raises two kids in the Bay Area city.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But recently, Puckett’s sense of place was thrown off-kilter. He was enjoying an ice cream at a favorite local spot — Tucker’s — when he looked up at a historical map on the wall. It showed Alameda connected to the mainland. That must be wrong, he thought; Alameda is an island.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[baycuriouspodcastinfo]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But the map was not wrong — it was just old. In fact, Alameda is not a natural island. And it almost never became an island at all.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It kind of felt like we’ve been living a lie,” Puckett says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Puckett asked Bay Curious to find out more about Alameda’s island origin story. The project took nearly 30 years to complete and had enough twists and turns to make anyone dizzy.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>When it all began\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11983868\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 999px\">\u003ca href=\"https://oaklandlibrary.org/ohc/\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-11983868 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/Alameda1877-tweaked.jpg\" alt=\"An old map shows what is now Alameda Island as connected to the mainland.\" width=\"999\" height=\"752\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/Alameda1877-tweaked.jpg 999w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/Alameda1877-tweaked-800x602.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/Alameda1877-tweaked-160x120.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 999px) 100vw, 999px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A map of Alameda from 1877 shows it as a connected peninsula, not an island. \u003ccite>(Oakland Public Library, Oakland History Center)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>In the 1870s, Alameda was a big peninsula that jutted out from what is now Oakland’s Fruitvale neighborhood like an outstretched arm.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Back then, things were pretty quiet in that part of the East Bay (it wasn’t Oakland until later). The marshy region was not very populated; the landscape was mostly wide open fields and the estates of a few wealthy families.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But Oakland’s inner harbor was nearby, and it was quickly becoming a bustling center for maritime commerce. Once the Gold Rush started, more and more ships arrived, bringing in all sorts of goods. And Oakland itself was growing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But navigation to the budding port was tricky. Boats had to traverse a wild waterway that hadn’t seen much development yet. Sediment on the harbor’s bottom would shift with the tides, causing sandbars to move in unpredictable patterns that caused problems for navigation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“[The sandbars] were there on Monday, Wednesday and Friday, [and then] they’d be over here on Tuesday and Thursday,” Alameda historian Dennis Evanosky says. “It impeded the shipping traffic.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11983870\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1920px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11983870\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/Evanosky-Puckett.jpg\" alt=\"Older man in blue sweater stands next to a younger one in brown.\" width=\"1920\" height=\"1276\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/Evanosky-Puckett.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/Evanosky-Puckett-800x532.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/Evanosky-Puckett-1020x678.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/Evanosky-Puckett-160x106.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/Evanosky-Puckett-1536x1021.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Dennis Evanosky (left) with Nate Puckett next to the Alameda canal. The Park Street bridge looms in the background. \u003ccite>(Pauline Bartolone/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Oakland was never going to become the shipping destination it wanted to be if the waterways remained so unpredictable and the port so difficult to reach. And Oakland had big development ambitions, says Richard Walker, a \u003ca href=\"https://geography.berkeley.edu/professor-emeritus-richard-walker\">professor emeritus in geography at UC Berkeley\u003c/a> and author of several books about California history.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The sense of competition with San Francisco [was] intense,” Walker says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the late 1800s, Oakland was coming into its own politically and economically, developing its own banks, businesses and shipping companies.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“That grows and grows so that Oakland, by the early 20th century, is really thumbing its nose at San Francisco,” Walker says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In response to local lobbying, Congressmen worked to bring in millions of federal dollars to pay the Army Corps of Engineers to improve the harbor.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Since shifting sandbars on the bottom was the biggest problem, \u003ca href=\"https://tile.loc.gov/storage-services/master/pnp/habshaer/ca/ca2600/ca2606/data/ca2606data.pdf\">the initial plan\u003c/a> was to cut through the marshy area of the Alameda peninsula, where it was connected to the mainland, to create a canal. Engineers thought if they built a dam at one end, they could release powerful torrents of water through the canal to flush out built-up sediment in the harbor. That would clear the way for bigger ships to come and go more easily.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The project got the green light in the early 1870s, but over the next three decades, it hit roadblock after roadblock.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Resistance to the project\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://alamedamuseum.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/AMQ_MAR_2019.pdf\">Eleven families owned land where the government wanted to dredge the canal\u003c/a>. Oakland officials offered families $40,000 at the time, more than $1.2 million today. But one person refused — \u003ca href=\"https://www.cohenbrayhouse.org/about-6\">A.A. Cohen, a railroad industry baron and attorney\u003c/a> who owned an estate with a 70-room mansion.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“They were screwing with his kingdom,” says Patty Donald, Cohen’s great-great-granddaughter and manager of the\u003ca href=\"https://www.cohenbrayhouse.org/history\"> Cohen Bray house\u003c/a>, a historic Victorian building in Oakland’s Fruitvale neighborhood. The Cohen family challenged the canal project more than once.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“He was one of the most powerful people in Alameda at that time because he had bought a failing rail system,” Donald says. “He built it up in two years and created another one.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>However, the canal project progressed despite Cohen’s legal challenge, and by 1889 the excavation was underway.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>The setbacks pile up\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Quickly, the canal project suffered another setback — flooding. The winter of 1889 was one of the wettest on record. More than 45 inches of rain fell that year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Disaster struck on a stormy night in January when Sausal Creek overflowed its banks at Fruitvale Avenue and flooded the ditch and equipment,” \u003ca href=\"https://alamedamuseum.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/AMQ_MAR_2019.pdf\">wrote historian Woody Minor in the Alameda Museum newslette\u003c/a>r. “It took two months to pump out the water.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Next, the project’s proponents had to deal with public opinion and perhaps the very first complaints from Alamedans about commuting.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“People complain, ‘Well if you’re gonna have this canal here, how are we going to get home?’” Evanosky says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The dredged canal cut across one of the main thoroughfares, leading to the Alameda peninsula, disrupting traffic \u003ca href=\"https://alamedamuseum.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/AMQ_MAR_2019.pdf\">for two years\u003c/a>. The Park Street bridge opened in 1891, and Alameda’s two other bridges, at High Street and Fruitvale Avenue, were built the following decade.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If legal battles, payouts and flooding weren’t enough, there was an economic depression in the 1890s. Funding for the canal project dried up. And then, the project’s long-time champion at the Army Corp of Engineers, \u003ca href=\"https://www.spn.usace.army.mil/Portals/68/docs/History/Engineers%20at%20the%20Golden%20Gate.pdf?ver=2019-10-24-161149-027\">Major George Mendell\u003c/a>, retired.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>However, the nail in the coffin for the dam/canal combo plan came from \u003ca href=\"https://alamedamuseum.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/AMQ_MAR_2019.pdf\">new research suggesting that dredging deeper in Oakland’s harbor would be more effective for boat passage\u003c/a> than this idea of flushing sediment away using a dam.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>While government officials debated the next steps, a partially dug, unfinished giant trench was left.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>‘Fetid water awash with dead fish’\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>At this point, 20 years after the project began, raw sewage in the area’s waterways had become a real problem. In the late 1800s, people in Oakland and Alameda started installing residential sewer systems, and the waste flowed right into Lake Merritt and the Oakland Harbor. The unfinished canal became a cesspool.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Fetid water awash with dead fish lapped against the dam and seeped into the ditch, emitting a pervasive stench,” \u003ca href=\"https://alamedamuseum.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/AMQ_MAR_2019.pdf\">wrote Minor in his history of the island\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Alameda’s health officer at the time, Dr. John T. McClean, became the biggest crusader for completing the canal. In a letter to Washington, published by the Oakland Enquirer in 1897, McLean argued that the stench from the incomplete trench had not only become offensive, but the foul water was killing fish and crabs and posed a health hazard. Better water circulation through the canal would help flush away foul substances, he argued.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So, government officials soon found the money to put a massive steam shovel to work ripping through the marsh between Alameda and modern-day Oakland. They finished dredging the canal in 1902, nearly 30 years after the plan was first hatched. Alameda was officially an island.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There was no dam. … but residents celebrated anyway — through days of fireworks, carnival acts and a procession of two hundred lighted boats.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>A failed idea? \u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>The scale and ambition of the Alameda Island project don’t impress geographer Richard Walker. In the grand scheme of things, he says, the project was actually pretty small. There are very few parts of the San Francisco Bay that humans haven’t somehow altered.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“This is California,” Walker says. “California [is] one of the most monumentally re-engineered landscapes on Earth.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>More than a century after the project was completed, the water in the neatly engineered tidal canal that separates Alameda from Oakland is relatively still, looking like a moat around a castle. People mostly use it for recreation now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Nate Puckett says it doesn’t bother him that Alameda isn’t naturally an island. Residents here still bond over bridge and tunnel delays and over a beer at Alameda Island Brewing Company.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[baycuriousquestion]\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003cbr>\nOlivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>One of the best parts about a deep and long-running friendship is you can poke a little fun at each other for your quirks. Like how you’re a diehard fan for a chronically losing sports team or how you put ketchup on everything – gross. For Nate Puckett, his friends rib him about how he never leaves the city of Alameda.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nate Puckett:\u003c/b> So I work here, I live here, my kids go to school here. I have a 4-year-old and a 6-year-old. So I don’t leave the island for like weeks. And people make fun of me for that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>Alameda is an island, in case you didn’t know, and that fact is pretty wrapped up in the identity of some people who live there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nate Puckett:\u003c/b> I have a T-shirt that says Islander. That’s, like, Alameda themed. There’s Alameda Island Brewing. Like, you talk about whether, you know, you’re on the island or not on the island.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>But recently, Nate’s sense of place was thrown off-kilter. He was eating ice cream at a local spot – Tuckers. He glanced up at a historical map hanging on the wall. And there, he saw something that shook him to the core. Alameda was connected to what is now mainland Oakland.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nate Puckett:\u003c/b> It kind of felt like we’ve been all living a lie. It kind of felt like, no, that’s wrong. Alameda is an island.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>But no. The map was not wrong. It was just \u003ci>old\u003c/i>. Alameda is not a natural island. And it almost never became an island at all.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>Bay Curious theme music starts\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>On this episode of Bay Curious, we’re going to find out how and \u003ci>why \u003c/i>Alameda was sliced off the mainland. It’s a story with enough twists and turns to make your head spin. I’m Olivia Allen Price. We’ll dive in just after this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>Sponsor break\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>Making Alameda into an island took nearly 30 years. And in the end, the original idea for the massive excavation, didn’t quite pan out as planned. KQED Producer Pauline Bartolone tells us all about the bumpy journey.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>Flooding, legal battles, an economic slump and raw sewage. They’re all part of Alameda’s island origin story.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>Music starts\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It all starts back in the 1870s, Alameda was a big peninsula, jutting out like an outstretched arm from what is now Oakland’s Fruitvale neighborhood.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Back then, things were pretty quiet where Alameda connected with the mainland. Not many people lived in this marshy region. Think open fields and maybe just a few estates of wealthy families.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Just to the west was a waterway, the Oakland harbor, that opened up to the San Francisco Bay. And it was becoming a bustling center for maritime commerce. More and more ships were arriving since the Gold Rush, bringing all sorts of goods. But navigation in this waterway was tricky. Sediment on its floor would shift — a lot! — causing all sorts of problems for boats.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>Music ends. We hear the sounds of street traffic and outside noises.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/b> The trouble is, there were sandbars. And there were all kinds of impediments.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>Alameda historian Dennis Evanosky took me and our question-asker, Nate Puckett, on a tour along Alameda’s waterfront. He says around what is now the Port of Oakland, the waterway was wild and untouched, with sandbars that would ebb and flow with the tide.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/b> They were there on Monday, Wednesday and Friday, then they’d be over here on Tuesday and Thursday, this place else.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nate Puckett:\u003c/b> Oh, yeah, haha.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/b> And it impeded the shipping traffic!\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>The unpredictable nature of the waterway didn’t work for the shipping industry, which wanted to get more boats into the port. Oakland had big development ambitions, says Richard Walker, a professor emeritus in geography at UC Berkeley.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Richard Walker: \u003c/b>Then, the sense of competition with San Francisco is intense, even though there’s a lot of San Francisco investment in Oakland. But you start to create Oakland having its own capitalist class, its own leadership who have banks in Oakland, have businesses, you know, have shipping companies, and they actually have a local interest. And that grows and grows so that Oakland, you know, by the early 20th century, is really thumbing its nose at San Francisco.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>Local Congressmen made deals to bring in millions of federal dollars to improve the harbor. Evanosky says the big idea was to dredge a canal all the way across the north side of Alameda, turning the peninsula into an island.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>We hear sounds of traffic near the canal\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/b> They planned to build this tidal canal as a scouring channel. What they planned to do was build a dam.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone:\u003c/b> The dam would be built on the far east side of Alameda. And then during ebb tide, when the water is naturally flowing out to the Bay.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/b> They are going to open that dam, and we’re going to have the water to, I say, “whoosh” through the scouring channel here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone:\u003c/b> Engineers thought this would harness the natural power of tides to flush sediment out of the Oakland estuary and toward the Bay, learning the passage for boats coming in and out of the narrow waterway.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/b> And these aren’t necessarily big, huge ships. These could be smaller ships, but they need a place to navigate and turn around.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone:\u003c/b> So, that was the plan. … in the beginning. The project got the green light in the early 1870s but had a slow start. And over the next three decades, it hit roadblock after roadblock. Early on, the government had to buy out 11 families who would lose part of their estates to the canal. They were offered $40,000 at the time, what is more than $1.2 million today. But one family refused.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patty Donald:\u003c/b> They were screwing with his kingdom. If you put it that way.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>Patty Donald is the great-great-granddaughter of A.A. Cohen, a railroad industry baron and attorney who owned an estate with a 70-room mansion on Alameda. A.A. Cohen’s family challenged the canal project more than once.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patty Donald:\u003c/b> He was one of the most powerful people in Alameda at that time because he had started, he had bought a failing rail system in 1876, I think.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>He sued to stop the canal project and lost. And it went forward.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>Music starts\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/i>\u003cb>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/b>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>By 1889, the excavation was underway. But quickly suffered another setback. A deluge, literally. The winter that started in 1889 was one of the wettest on record. More than 45 inches of rain fell that year. That’s according to a history written by Woody Minor of the Alameda Museum.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>Sound effect of typewriter under voice-over\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003ci>Voice actor reading:\u003c/i>\u003c/b> Disaster struck on a stormy night in January when Sausal Creek overflowed its banks at Fruitvale Avenue and flooded the ditch and equipment. It took two months to pump out the water.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>Then, they had to deal with public opinion. And perhaps the very first complaints from Alameda residents about commuting.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/b> They are digging this canal. And there’s a problem. People complain, well, if you’re gonna have this canal here, how are we going to get home?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>The canal dredging was disrupting traffic to one of Alameda’s main entrances, Evanosky says. So, the Park Street Bridge was built first, and then two other bridges came.. in the decade that followed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>Music starts\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>As if legal battles, payouts and flooding weren’t enough, the canal project suffered more roadblocks in the 1890s. According to the Alameda Museum’s Woody Minor, funding dried up during an economic depression. Then, the project’s long-time champion at the Army Corps of Engineers retired.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And then — this one’s big — new research suggested that dredging deeper in Oakland’s harbor would be more effective for boat passage than this idea of flushing sediment out using a dam. While government officials debated next steps, a partially dug unfinished canal was left. A big giant trench.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/b> So they had to stop. And this is all done, and they had to stop.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>Now, this is where the raw sewage comes into the picture. Right around this time, people in Oakland and Alameda started installing residential sewer systems. And the waste was flowing right into Lake Merritt and the Oakland Harbor. By the Alameda Museum’s account, the waterway became a cesspool.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>Sound effect of typewriter under voice-over\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Voice Actor:\u003c/b> Fetid water awash with dead fish lapped against the dam and seeped into the ditch, emitting a pervasive stench.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>Alameda’s health officer became the biggest crusader for completing the canal. In 1897, he argued that the stench from the incomplete trench had not only become offensive, but the foul water was killing fish and crabs and posing a health hazard.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So government officials soon found the money to put a massive steam shovel to work and finish that canal excavation once and for good.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>Sound of a big machine starting up\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>In case you’re wondering if, during this era, anyone ever chimed in about the ecological impacts of ripping through this marshy area?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Richard Walker:\u003c/b> No, no, no, no, no, it’s nothing like that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>Richard Walker says there wasn’t really an environmental movement at this time. Maybe an oysterman was concerned about declining catches.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Richard Walker:\u003c/b> The conservationists at that time would be, I think, entirely obsessed with creating the first state parks. Saving the redwoods. They’re worried about mine debris in the Central Valley.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>By 1902, the dredging was done. And 30 years after the plan was first hatched, the canal filled with water. Alameda was officially an island.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Residents in the city of Alameda were ready to celebrate.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>Sounds of a marching band, crowd noise and fireworks\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>In September of 1902, there were days of fireworks, parades, brass bands, carnival acts, fancy diving and a procession of two hundred lighted boats.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Things were different from what was originally envisioned, of course. For one, there was no dam to help flush water out of the estuary.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/b> In my view, they didn’t build the dam because they were just tired of this whole thing, and a lot of people didn’t think the dam was going to work anyway.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>Now, more than a century later, as I walk along the canal with Alameda historian Dennis Evanosky near the Park Street Bridge, the canal water is relatively still. A few boats are docked, but none sail by. This neatly engineered waterway looks like a moat around a castle. It’s mostly used for recreation now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nate Puckett:\u003c/b> This wasn’t natural. It looks very not natural.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/b> Right? Right? Right, right.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>Our question asker, Nate Puckett, has been walking with us, listening to Evanosky this whole time. He looks slightly unsettled.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nate Puckett:\u003c/b> So it sounds like the reason it’s an island was a failed idea.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/b> Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I would say, “The island city, sort of.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nate Puckett:\u003c/b> Yeah, yeah, the island city by accident.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/b> Right, right. Right.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>Nate clarified later that he found Alameda’s island origin story “surprising.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nate Puckett:\u003c/b> You kind of always assume big projects like this are for a very clear and thought-out purpose. And to find that it was kind of an accident or the plan changed so many times is definitely surprising. Especially just, you know, because Alameda is so into being an island.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>The fact that Alameda isn’t naturally an island doesn’t bother Nate Puckett too much now. After all, it’s been that way for a while, and residents here still bond over bridge and tunnel delays. And over a beer at Alameda Island Brewing Co.\u003cbr>\n\u003cb>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/b>\u003ci>Island-themed music starts\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>That story was produced by Pauline Bartolone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Big shout out and thanks to Liam O’Donoghue of the \u003ca href=\"https://eastbayyesterday.com/\">East Bay Yesterday podcast \u003c/a>and UC Davis geographer Javier Arbona for their help on this story. Facts in this story came from Woody Minor of the Alameda Museum and historical documents from the Army Corp of Engineers and the National Park Service.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There’s still time to vote in our April voting round. Here are your choices:\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Voice 1:\u003c/b> I was recently at the Morcom Rose Garden in Oakland and saw three different official Oakland signs that read, “No glitter.” I would love to know what happened at the rose garden to warrant so many signs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Voice 2:\u003c/b> Yesterday, I walked with a fellow science teacher on the Great Hwy. We commented on the blackish sand, made of iron filings. Where does the iron come from?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Voice 3:\u003c/b> Who are the de Youngs? I think they have some crazy stories!\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>Vote for which question you think we should tackle next at baycurious.org. While you’re there, sign up for our monthly newsletter, ask your own question or get lost listening through the Bay Curious archive.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Bay Curious is made in San Francisco at member-supported KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>Our show is made by:\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>Katrina Schwartz\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>Christopher Beale\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/b> Katherine Monahan\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>and me, Olivia Allen Price. Additional support from:\u003cbr>\n\u003cb>Jen Chien: \u003c/b>Jen Chien\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katie Springer: \u003c/b>Katie Springer\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cesar Saldana: \u003c/b>Cesar Saldana\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Maha Sanad: \u003c/b>Maha Sanad\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Holly Kernan:\u003c/b> Holly Kernan\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Crowd:\u003c/b> And the whole KQED family.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>I’m Olivia Allen-Price. We’ll be back next week.\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"Alameda residents fully own their island identity, but many don't know that it used to be connected to mainland Oakland.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1714062860,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":true,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":136,"wordCount":3910},"headData":{"title":"Alameda: The Island That Almost Wasn’t | KQED","description":"Alameda residents fully own their island identity, but many don't know that it used to be connected to mainland Oakland.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"Alameda: The Island That Almost Wasn’t","datePublished":"2024-04-25T10:00:34.000Z","dateModified":"2024-04-25T16:34:20.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"Y","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"source":"Bay Curious","sourceUrl":"https://www.kqed.org/podcasts/baycurious/","audioUrl":"https://dcs.megaphone.fm/KQINC3081122282.mp3?key=fc075dc0e32f001c439745b9697d7766&request_event_id=3ff129a1-c582-463c-8902-bc37d989ad55","sticky":false,"excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11983858/alameda-the-island-that-almost-wasnt","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The city of Alameda has all the sure signs of an island. To get there, you have to use a bridge, a tunnel or a boat. Locals talk about going “on and off island.” And residents, like Nate Puckett, wear Alameda-themed T-shirts that say “Islander.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I don’t leave the island for, like, weeks,” says Puckett, who lives, works and raises two kids in the Bay Area city.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But recently, Puckett’s sense of place was thrown off-kilter. He was enjoying an ice cream at a favorite local spot — Tucker’s — when he looked up at a historical map on the wall. It showed Alameda connected to the mainland. That must be wrong, he thought; Alameda is an island.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003caside class=\"alignleft utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__bayCuriousPodcastShortcode__bayCurious\">\u003cimg src=https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/bayCuriousLogo.png alt=\"Bay Curious Podcast\" />\n \u003ca href=\"/news/series/baycurious\">Bay Curious\u003c/a> is a podcast that answers your questions about the Bay Area.\n Subscribe on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/bay-curious/id1172473406\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Apple Podcasts\u003c/a>,\n \u003ca href=\"http://www.npr.org/podcasts/500557090/bay-curious\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">NPR One\u003c/a> or your favorite podcast platform.\u003c/aside>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But the map was not wrong — it was just old. In fact, Alameda is not a natural island. And it almost never became an island at all.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It kind of felt like we’ve been living a lie,” Puckett says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Puckett asked Bay Curious to find out more about Alameda’s island origin story. The project took nearly 30 years to complete and had enough twists and turns to make anyone dizzy.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>When it all began\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11983868\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 999px\">\u003ca href=\"https://oaklandlibrary.org/ohc/\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-11983868 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/Alameda1877-tweaked.jpg\" alt=\"An old map shows what is now Alameda Island as connected to the mainland.\" width=\"999\" height=\"752\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/Alameda1877-tweaked.jpg 999w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/Alameda1877-tweaked-800x602.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/Alameda1877-tweaked-160x120.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 999px) 100vw, 999px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A map of Alameda from 1877 shows it as a connected peninsula, not an island. \u003ccite>(Oakland Public Library, Oakland History Center)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>In the 1870s, Alameda was a big peninsula that jutted out from what is now Oakland’s Fruitvale neighborhood like an outstretched arm.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Back then, things were pretty quiet in that part of the East Bay (it wasn’t Oakland until later). The marshy region was not very populated; the landscape was mostly wide open fields and the estates of a few wealthy families.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But Oakland’s inner harbor was nearby, and it was quickly becoming a bustling center for maritime commerce. Once the Gold Rush started, more and more ships arrived, bringing in all sorts of goods. And Oakland itself was growing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But navigation to the budding port was tricky. Boats had to traverse a wild waterway that hadn’t seen much development yet. Sediment on the harbor’s bottom would shift with the tides, causing sandbars to move in unpredictable patterns that caused problems for navigation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“[The sandbars] were there on Monday, Wednesday and Friday, [and then] they’d be over here on Tuesday and Thursday,” Alameda historian Dennis Evanosky says. “It impeded the shipping traffic.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11983870\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1920px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11983870\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/Evanosky-Puckett.jpg\" alt=\"Older man in blue sweater stands next to a younger one in brown.\" width=\"1920\" height=\"1276\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/Evanosky-Puckett.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/Evanosky-Puckett-800x532.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/Evanosky-Puckett-1020x678.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/Evanosky-Puckett-160x106.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/Evanosky-Puckett-1536x1021.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Dennis Evanosky (left) with Nate Puckett next to the Alameda canal. The Park Street bridge looms in the background. \u003ccite>(Pauline Bartolone/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Oakland was never going to become the shipping destination it wanted to be if the waterways remained so unpredictable and the port so difficult to reach. And Oakland had big development ambitions, says Richard Walker, a \u003ca href=\"https://geography.berkeley.edu/professor-emeritus-richard-walker\">professor emeritus in geography at UC Berkeley\u003c/a> and author of several books about California history.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The sense of competition with San Francisco [was] intense,” Walker says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the late 1800s, Oakland was coming into its own politically and economically, developing its own banks, businesses and shipping companies.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“That grows and grows so that Oakland, by the early 20th century, is really thumbing its nose at San Francisco,” Walker says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In response to local lobbying, Congressmen worked to bring in millions of federal dollars to pay the Army Corps of Engineers to improve the harbor.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Since shifting sandbars on the bottom was the biggest problem, \u003ca href=\"https://tile.loc.gov/storage-services/master/pnp/habshaer/ca/ca2600/ca2606/data/ca2606data.pdf\">the initial plan\u003c/a> was to cut through the marshy area of the Alameda peninsula, where it was connected to the mainland, to create a canal. Engineers thought if they built a dam at one end, they could release powerful torrents of water through the canal to flush out built-up sediment in the harbor. That would clear the way for bigger ships to come and go more easily.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The project got the green light in the early 1870s, but over the next three decades, it hit roadblock after roadblock.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Resistance to the project\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://alamedamuseum.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/AMQ_MAR_2019.pdf\">Eleven families owned land where the government wanted to dredge the canal\u003c/a>. Oakland officials offered families $40,000 at the time, more than $1.2 million today. But one person refused — \u003ca href=\"https://www.cohenbrayhouse.org/about-6\">A.A. Cohen, a railroad industry baron and attorney\u003c/a> who owned an estate with a 70-room mansion.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“They were screwing with his kingdom,” says Patty Donald, Cohen’s great-great-granddaughter and manager of the\u003ca href=\"https://www.cohenbrayhouse.org/history\"> Cohen Bray house\u003c/a>, a historic Victorian building in Oakland’s Fruitvale neighborhood. The Cohen family challenged the canal project more than once.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“He was one of the most powerful people in Alameda at that time because he had bought a failing rail system,” Donald says. “He built it up in two years and created another one.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>However, the canal project progressed despite Cohen’s legal challenge, and by 1889 the excavation was underway.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>The setbacks pile up\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Quickly, the canal project suffered another setback — flooding. The winter of 1889 was one of the wettest on record. More than 45 inches of rain fell that year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Disaster struck on a stormy night in January when Sausal Creek overflowed its banks at Fruitvale Avenue and flooded the ditch and equipment,” \u003ca href=\"https://alamedamuseum.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/AMQ_MAR_2019.pdf\">wrote historian Woody Minor in the Alameda Museum newslette\u003c/a>r. “It took two months to pump out the water.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Next, the project’s proponents had to deal with public opinion and perhaps the very first complaints from Alamedans about commuting.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“People complain, ‘Well if you’re gonna have this canal here, how are we going to get home?’” Evanosky says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The dredged canal cut across one of the main thoroughfares, leading to the Alameda peninsula, disrupting traffic \u003ca href=\"https://alamedamuseum.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/AMQ_MAR_2019.pdf\">for two years\u003c/a>. The Park Street bridge opened in 1891, and Alameda’s two other bridges, at High Street and Fruitvale Avenue, were built the following decade.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If legal battles, payouts and flooding weren’t enough, there was an economic depression in the 1890s. Funding for the canal project dried up. And then, the project’s long-time champion at the Army Corp of Engineers, \u003ca href=\"https://www.spn.usace.army.mil/Portals/68/docs/History/Engineers%20at%20the%20Golden%20Gate.pdf?ver=2019-10-24-161149-027\">Major George Mendell\u003c/a>, retired.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>However, the nail in the coffin for the dam/canal combo plan came from \u003ca href=\"https://alamedamuseum.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/AMQ_MAR_2019.pdf\">new research suggesting that dredging deeper in Oakland’s harbor would be more effective for boat passage\u003c/a> than this idea of flushing sediment away using a dam.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>While government officials debated the next steps, a partially dug, unfinished giant trench was left.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>‘Fetid water awash with dead fish’\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>At this point, 20 years after the project began, raw sewage in the area’s waterways had become a real problem. In the late 1800s, people in Oakland and Alameda started installing residential sewer systems, and the waste flowed right into Lake Merritt and the Oakland Harbor. The unfinished canal became a cesspool.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Fetid water awash with dead fish lapped against the dam and seeped into the ditch, emitting a pervasive stench,” \u003ca href=\"https://alamedamuseum.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/AMQ_MAR_2019.pdf\">wrote Minor in his history of the island\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Alameda’s health officer at the time, Dr. John T. McClean, became the biggest crusader for completing the canal. In a letter to Washington, published by the Oakland Enquirer in 1897, McLean argued that the stench from the incomplete trench had not only become offensive, but the foul water was killing fish and crabs and posed a health hazard. Better water circulation through the canal would help flush away foul substances, he argued.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So, government officials soon found the money to put a massive steam shovel to work ripping through the marsh between Alameda and modern-day Oakland. They finished dredging the canal in 1902, nearly 30 years after the plan was first hatched. Alameda was officially an island.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There was no dam. … but residents celebrated anyway — through days of fireworks, carnival acts and a procession of two hundred lighted boats.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>A failed idea? \u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>The scale and ambition of the Alameda Island project don’t impress geographer Richard Walker. In the grand scheme of things, he says, the project was actually pretty small. There are very few parts of the San Francisco Bay that humans haven’t somehow altered.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“This is California,” Walker says. “California [is] one of the most monumentally re-engineered landscapes on Earth.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>More than a century after the project was completed, the water in the neatly engineered tidal canal that separates Alameda from Oakland is relatively still, looking like a moat around a castle. People mostly use it for recreation now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Nate Puckett says it doesn’t bother him that Alameda isn’t naturally an island. Residents here still bond over bridge and tunnel delays and over a beer at Alameda Island Brewing Company.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"baycuriousquestion","attributes":{"named":{"label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003cbr>\nOlivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>One of the best parts about a deep and long-running friendship is you can poke a little fun at each other for your quirks. Like how you’re a diehard fan for a chronically losing sports team or how you put ketchup on everything – gross. For Nate Puckett, his friends rib him about how he never leaves the city of Alameda.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nate Puckett:\u003c/b> So I work here, I live here, my kids go to school here. I have a 4-year-old and a 6-year-old. So I don’t leave the island for like weeks. And people make fun of me for that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>Alameda is an island, in case you didn’t know, and that fact is pretty wrapped up in the identity of some people who live there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nate Puckett:\u003c/b> I have a T-shirt that says Islander. That’s, like, Alameda themed. There’s Alameda Island Brewing. Like, you talk about whether, you know, you’re on the island or not on the island.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>But recently, Nate’s sense of place was thrown off-kilter. He was eating ice cream at a local spot – Tuckers. He glanced up at a historical map hanging on the wall. And there, he saw something that shook him to the core. Alameda was connected to what is now mainland Oakland.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nate Puckett:\u003c/b> It kind of felt like we’ve been all living a lie. It kind of felt like, no, that’s wrong. Alameda is an island.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>But no. The map was not wrong. It was just \u003ci>old\u003c/i>. Alameda is not a natural island. And it almost never became an island at all.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>Bay Curious theme music starts\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>On this episode of Bay Curious, we’re going to find out how and \u003ci>why \u003c/i>Alameda was sliced off the mainland. It’s a story with enough twists and turns to make your head spin. I’m Olivia Allen Price. We’ll dive in just after this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>Sponsor break\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>Making Alameda into an island took nearly 30 years. And in the end, the original idea for the massive excavation, didn’t quite pan out as planned. KQED Producer Pauline Bartolone tells us all about the bumpy journey.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>Flooding, legal battles, an economic slump and raw sewage. They’re all part of Alameda’s island origin story.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>Music starts\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It all starts back in the 1870s, Alameda was a big peninsula, jutting out like an outstretched arm from what is now Oakland’s Fruitvale neighborhood.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Back then, things were pretty quiet where Alameda connected with the mainland. Not many people lived in this marshy region. Think open fields and maybe just a few estates of wealthy families.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Just to the west was a waterway, the Oakland harbor, that opened up to the San Francisco Bay. And it was becoming a bustling center for maritime commerce. More and more ships were arriving since the Gold Rush, bringing all sorts of goods. But navigation in this waterway was tricky. Sediment on its floor would shift — a lot! — causing all sorts of problems for boats.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>Music ends. We hear the sounds of street traffic and outside noises.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/b> The trouble is, there were sandbars. And there were all kinds of impediments.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>Alameda historian Dennis Evanosky took me and our question-asker, Nate Puckett, on a tour along Alameda’s waterfront. He says around what is now the Port of Oakland, the waterway was wild and untouched, with sandbars that would ebb and flow with the tide.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/b> They were there on Monday, Wednesday and Friday, then they’d be over here on Tuesday and Thursday, this place else.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nate Puckett:\u003c/b> Oh, yeah, haha.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/b> And it impeded the shipping traffic!\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>The unpredictable nature of the waterway didn’t work for the shipping industry, which wanted to get more boats into the port. Oakland had big development ambitions, says Richard Walker, a professor emeritus in geography at UC Berkeley.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Richard Walker: \u003c/b>Then, the sense of competition with San Francisco is intense, even though there’s a lot of San Francisco investment in Oakland. But you start to create Oakland having its own capitalist class, its own leadership who have banks in Oakland, have businesses, you know, have shipping companies, and they actually have a local interest. And that grows and grows so that Oakland, you know, by the early 20th century, is really thumbing its nose at San Francisco.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>Local Congressmen made deals to bring in millions of federal dollars to improve the harbor. Evanosky says the big idea was to dredge a canal all the way across the north side of Alameda, turning the peninsula into an island.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>We hear sounds of traffic near the canal\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/b> They planned to build this tidal canal as a scouring channel. What they planned to do was build a dam.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone:\u003c/b> The dam would be built on the far east side of Alameda. And then during ebb tide, when the water is naturally flowing out to the Bay.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/b> They are going to open that dam, and we’re going to have the water to, I say, “whoosh” through the scouring channel here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone:\u003c/b> Engineers thought this would harness the natural power of tides to flush sediment out of the Oakland estuary and toward the Bay, learning the passage for boats coming in and out of the narrow waterway.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/b> And these aren’t necessarily big, huge ships. These could be smaller ships, but they need a place to navigate and turn around.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone:\u003c/b> So, that was the plan. … in the beginning. The project got the green light in the early 1870s but had a slow start. And over the next three decades, it hit roadblock after roadblock. Early on, the government had to buy out 11 families who would lose part of their estates to the canal. They were offered $40,000 at the time, what is more than $1.2 million today. But one family refused.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patty Donald:\u003c/b> They were screwing with his kingdom. If you put it that way.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>Patty Donald is the great-great-granddaughter of A.A. Cohen, a railroad industry baron and attorney who owned an estate with a 70-room mansion on Alameda. A.A. Cohen’s family challenged the canal project more than once.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patty Donald:\u003c/b> He was one of the most powerful people in Alameda at that time because he had started, he had bought a failing rail system in 1876, I think.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>He sued to stop the canal project and lost. And it went forward.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>Music starts\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/i>\u003cb>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/b>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>By 1889, the excavation was underway. But quickly suffered another setback. A deluge, literally. The winter that started in 1889 was one of the wettest on record. More than 45 inches of rain fell that year. That’s according to a history written by Woody Minor of the Alameda Museum.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>Sound effect of typewriter under voice-over\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003ci>Voice actor reading:\u003c/i>\u003c/b> Disaster struck on a stormy night in January when Sausal Creek overflowed its banks at Fruitvale Avenue and flooded the ditch and equipment. It took two months to pump out the water.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>Then, they had to deal with public opinion. And perhaps the very first complaints from Alameda residents about commuting.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/b> They are digging this canal. And there’s a problem. People complain, well, if you’re gonna have this canal here, how are we going to get home?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>The canal dredging was disrupting traffic to one of Alameda’s main entrances, Evanosky says. So, the Park Street Bridge was built first, and then two other bridges came.. in the decade that followed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>Music starts\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>As if legal battles, payouts and flooding weren’t enough, the canal project suffered more roadblocks in the 1890s. According to the Alameda Museum’s Woody Minor, funding dried up during an economic depression. Then, the project’s long-time champion at the Army Corps of Engineers retired.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And then — this one’s big — new research suggested that dredging deeper in Oakland’s harbor would be more effective for boat passage than this idea of flushing sediment out using a dam. While government officials debated next steps, a partially dug unfinished canal was left. A big giant trench.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/b> So they had to stop. And this is all done, and they had to stop.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>Now, this is where the raw sewage comes into the picture. Right around this time, people in Oakland and Alameda started installing residential sewer systems. And the waste was flowing right into Lake Merritt and the Oakland Harbor. By the Alameda Museum’s account, the waterway became a cesspool.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>Sound effect of typewriter under voice-over\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Voice Actor:\u003c/b> Fetid water awash with dead fish lapped against the dam and seeped into the ditch, emitting a pervasive stench.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>Alameda’s health officer became the biggest crusader for completing the canal. In 1897, he argued that the stench from the incomplete trench had not only become offensive, but the foul water was killing fish and crabs and posing a health hazard.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So government officials soon found the money to put a massive steam shovel to work and finish that canal excavation once and for good.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>Sound of a big machine starting up\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>In case you’re wondering if, during this era, anyone ever chimed in about the ecological impacts of ripping through this marshy area?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Richard Walker:\u003c/b> No, no, no, no, no, it’s nothing like that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>Richard Walker says there wasn’t really an environmental movement at this time. Maybe an oysterman was concerned about declining catches.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Richard Walker:\u003c/b> The conservationists at that time would be, I think, entirely obsessed with creating the first state parks. Saving the redwoods. They’re worried about mine debris in the Central Valley.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>By 1902, the dredging was done. And 30 years after the plan was first hatched, the canal filled with water. Alameda was officially an island.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Residents in the city of Alameda were ready to celebrate.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>Sounds of a marching band, crowd noise and fireworks\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>In September of 1902, there were days of fireworks, parades, brass bands, carnival acts, fancy diving and a procession of two hundred lighted boats.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Things were different from what was originally envisioned, of course. For one, there was no dam to help flush water out of the estuary.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/b> In my view, they didn’t build the dam because they were just tired of this whole thing, and a lot of people didn’t think the dam was going to work anyway.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>Now, more than a century later, as I walk along the canal with Alameda historian Dennis Evanosky near the Park Street Bridge, the canal water is relatively still. A few boats are docked, but none sail by. This neatly engineered waterway looks like a moat around a castle. It’s mostly used for recreation now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nate Puckett:\u003c/b> This wasn’t natural. It looks very not natural.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/b> Right? Right? Right, right.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>Our question asker, Nate Puckett, has been walking with us, listening to Evanosky this whole time. He looks slightly unsettled.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nate Puckett:\u003c/b> So it sounds like the reason it’s an island was a failed idea.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/b> Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I would say, “The island city, sort of.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nate Puckett:\u003c/b> Yeah, yeah, the island city by accident.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dennis Evanosky:\u003c/b> Right, right. Right.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>Nate clarified later that he found Alameda’s island origin story “surprising.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nate Puckett:\u003c/b> You kind of always assume big projects like this are for a very clear and thought-out purpose. And to find that it was kind of an accident or the plan changed so many times is definitely surprising. Especially just, you know, because Alameda is so into being an island.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>The fact that Alameda isn’t naturally an island doesn’t bother Nate Puckett too much now. After all, it’s been that way for a while, and residents here still bond over bridge and tunnel delays. And over a beer at Alameda Island Brewing Co.\u003cbr>\n\u003cb>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/b>\u003ci>Island-themed music starts\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>That story was produced by Pauline Bartolone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Big shout out and thanks to Liam O’Donoghue of the \u003ca href=\"https://eastbayyesterday.com/\">East Bay Yesterday podcast \u003c/a>and UC Davis geographer Javier Arbona for their help on this story. Facts in this story came from Woody Minor of the Alameda Museum and historical documents from the Army Corp of Engineers and the National Park Service.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There’s still time to vote in our April voting round. Here are your choices:\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Voice 1:\u003c/b> I was recently at the Morcom Rose Garden in Oakland and saw three different official Oakland signs that read, “No glitter.” I would love to know what happened at the rose garden to warrant so many signs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Voice 2:\u003c/b> Yesterday, I walked with a fellow science teacher on the Great Hwy. We commented on the blackish sand, made of iron filings. Where does the iron come from?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Voice 3:\u003c/b> Who are the de Youngs? I think they have some crazy stories!\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>Vote for which question you think we should tackle next at baycurious.org. While you’re there, sign up for our monthly newsletter, ask your own question or get lost listening through the Bay Curious archive.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Bay Curious is made in San Francisco at member-supported KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>Our show is made by:\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>Katrina Schwartz\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>Christopher Beale\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katherine Monahan:\u003c/b> Katherine Monahan\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>and me, Olivia Allen Price. Additional support from:\u003cbr>\n\u003cb>Jen Chien: \u003c/b>Jen Chien\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katie Springer: \u003c/b>Katie Springer\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cesar Saldana: \u003c/b>Cesar Saldana\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Maha Sanad: \u003c/b>Maha Sanad\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Holly Kernan:\u003c/b> Holly Kernan\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Crowd:\u003c/b> And the whole KQED family.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>I’m Olivia Allen-Price. We’ll be back next week.\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11983858/alameda-the-island-that-almost-wasnt","authors":["11879"],"programs":["news_33523"],"series":["news_17986"],"categories":["news_31795","news_28250","news_8"],"tags":["news_3631","news_32459","news_28262","news_22761"],"featImg":"news_11983865","label":"source_news_11983858"},"news_11972756":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11972756","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11972756","score":null,"sort":[1705575656000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"the-hidden-history-of-fort-scott-in-san-franciscos-presidio","title":"The Hidden History of Fort Scott in San Francisco's Presidio","publishDate":1705575656,"format":"standard","headTitle":"The Hidden History of Fort Scott in San Francisco’s Presidio | KQED","labelTerm":{},"content":"\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Wander onto the parade ground of Fort Scott, and one of the first questions that comes to mind is: “What is this place?” A large grassy field is bordered by tall beige buildings with red roofs. The place feels deserted, the windows boarded up but still preserved. It’s eerie to be in such a big open space with so few people around — just a few dog walkers and a cyclist or two.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s particularly odd because Fort Scott is just steps away from epic views over the Golden Gate Bridge, a well-traveled cycling path, and one of the biggest thoroughfares running through the park. But none of that bustle seems to reach this collection of empty buildings.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[baycuriouspodcastinfo]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Over the years, our listeners have wondered what Fort Scott was used for, what life was like there, and why it remains closed up when so much of the Presidio has been put to modern use. To answer these questions, we took a trip to the edge of the city and back in time.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Defending the Pacific \u003c/h2>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11972765\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 600px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11972765\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/Coastal-defense-gun-at-Fort-Winfield-Scott-in-the-Presidio-1939-SAN-FRANCISCO-HISTORY-CENTER-SAN-FRANCISCO-PUBLIC-LIBRARY.jpg\" alt=\"Outline of a man in old fashioned military uniform stands next to a cannon pointed a soupy mass of clouds.\" width=\"600\" height=\"480\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/Coastal-defense-gun-at-Fort-Winfield-Scott-in-the-Presidio-1939-SAN-FRANCISCO-HISTORY-CENTER-SAN-FRANCISCO-PUBLIC-LIBRARY.jpg 600w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/Coastal-defense-gun-at-Fort-Winfield-Scott-in-the-Presidio-1939-SAN-FRANCISCO-HISTORY-CENTER-SAN-FRANCISCO-PUBLIC-LIBRARY-160x128.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 600px) 100vw, 600px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Coastal defense gun at Fort Winfield Scott in the Presidio, 1939. \u003ccite>(Courtesy \u003ca href=\"https://digitalsf.org/islandora/object/islandora:131391\">San Francisco History Center\u003c/a>/San Francisco Public Library)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>San Francisco’s Presidio has a long military history, of which Fort Scott is just one part. In 1776, Spanish colonizers landed on Ohlone land and decided this northwest spit of land overlooking the narrow entrance to the Bay would be a strategic location for protecting the Pacific coast from attacking ships. Once the territory became part of the U.S. in 1848, the military continued fortifying the site.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Fort Scott — whose official name is actually Fort \u003ci>Winfield \u003c/i>Scott, \u003ca href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winfield_Scott\">after one of the most prominent U.S. officers of the 19th century\u003c/a> — was built in 1912 to be the Army’s new Coast Artillery Headquarters. The soldiers stationed here defended the Pacific Coast from offshore attacks.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC4303079219&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Everything that the army needed to operate a post of about 1,000 to 1,200 people was here,” said Rob Thomson, federal preservation officer for the \u003ca href=\"https://presidio.gov/\">Presidio Trust\u003c/a>, an independent federal agency that manages the majority of the buildings in the Presidio.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The center of the fort is a horseshoe-shaped lawn known as the parade ground. Ten barracks buildings surround the parade ground, each housing 105 soldiers. This is where soldiers would practice their drills, perform flag ceremonies and assemble for inspections.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11972766\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-11972766 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/circa-1912-barracks-at-Fort-Winfield-Scott.jpg\" alt=\"Sepia colored photo shows a large barracks building with three straight rows of soldiers lined up in front. In the distance is water and hills.\" width=\"1000\" height=\"712\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/circa-1912-barracks-at-Fort-Winfield-Scott.jpg 1000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/circa-1912-barracks-at-Fort-Winfield-Scott-800x570.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/circa-1912-barracks-at-Fort-Winfield-Scott-160x114.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1000px) 100vw, 1000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Coastal Artillery soldiers lined up in front of a barracks at Fort Winfield Scott, circa 1912. \u003ccite>(\u003ca href=\"https://opensfhistory.org/Display/wnp27.4791.jpg\">OpenSFHistory / wnp27.4791\u003c/a>)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“There’s also a spectacular view of the Golden Gate Bridge, which nobody knew was going to be there when all of these buildings were built,” Thomson said. \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11749629/the-golden-gate-bridge-your-questions-answered?utm_medium=Email&utm_source=ExactTarget&utm_campaign=Bay%20Curious%20Newsletter&mc_key=00Q1Y00001pDwBAUA0\">The Golden Gate Bridge wasn’t finished until 1937.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Soldiers stationed at Fort Scott early in the 20th century had one main duty: man the 17 artillery batteries lining the coast. Remnants of these giant cannons that stuck out of the cliffside are still visible on coastal hikes through the Presidio. When they were first built in the 1890s, they were considered state-of-the-art defensive installations and nicknamed “Uncle Sam’s guardians.” But keeping the batteries in working order was a harsh job.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11972767\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11972767\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/Fort-Scott-Presidio-opensfhistory_wnp71.20033.jpg\" alt=\"Black and white photo of a large cannon placed on top of a hill and pointed out over a wall.\" width=\"1000\" height=\"679\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/Fort-Scott-Presidio-opensfhistory_wnp71.20033.jpg 1000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/Fort-Scott-Presidio-opensfhistory_wnp71.20033-800x543.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/Fort-Scott-Presidio-opensfhistory_wnp71.20033-160x109.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1000px) 100vw, 1000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Gun #3 at Battery Godfrey in Fort Winfield Scott. Gun #2 is visible at right. \u003ccite>(\u003ca href=\"https://opensfhistory.org/Display/wnp71.20033.jpg\">OpenSFHistory / wnp71.20033\u003c/a>)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“The soldiers who had to be out there all the time didn’t have a great day-to-day life,” Thomson said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Soldiers camped out on the windy, cold coastline in long, unpleasant shifts. The largest of the batteries needed 14 men to aim and load the guns, and the ammunition weighed up to 1,000 pounds. Test explosions were so loud they would damage the windows and doors of nearby residents.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11972771\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 600px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11972771\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/1942-Hidden-anti-aircraft-gun-at-Fort-Winfield-Scott-Presidio-SAN-FRANCISCO-HISTORY-CENTER-SAN-FRANCISCO-PUBLIC-LIBRARY.jpg\" alt=\"Sepia photo of three soldiers lifting a wooden hatch in a hill to reveal an anti-aircraft gun.\" width=\"600\" height=\"442\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/1942-Hidden-anti-aircraft-gun-at-Fort-Winfield-Scott-Presidio-SAN-FRANCISCO-HISTORY-CENTER-SAN-FRANCISCO-PUBLIC-LIBRARY.jpg 600w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/1942-Hidden-anti-aircraft-gun-at-Fort-Winfield-Scott-Presidio-SAN-FRANCISCO-HISTORY-CENTER-SAN-FRANCISCO-PUBLIC-LIBRARY-160x118.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 600px) 100vw, 600px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Hidden anti-aircraft gun at Fort Winfield Scott in San Francisco’s Presidio, circa 1942. \u003ccite>(Courtesy \u003ca href=\"https://digitalsf.org/islandora/object/islandora:131329\">San Francisco History Center\u003c/a>/San Francisco Public Library)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>It didn’t take many years for advancements in warfare to render the coastal batteries at Fort Scott obsolete. The advent of air power meant that by the time World War II started, the real threat to San Francisco was from airplanes, not ships. In 1950, the Army terminated its Coast Artillery Division, and soldiers at Fort Scott were reassigned to mapmaking, surveying, and anti-aircraft defenses, most notably Nike missiles. It’s still possible to visit the \u003ca href=\"https://www.google.com/maps/place/Nike+Missile+Site+SF-89L/@37.7920473,-122.4842431,15z/data=!4m6!3m5!1s0x8085871e6dfcf64f:0x83cb162384d3023f!8m2!3d37.7919456!4d-122.4740722!16s%2Fg%2F1tjdx3qq?entry=ttu\">Nike missile site\u003c/a> south of Fort Scott and the one in the \u003ca href=\"https://www.google.com/maps/place/Nike+Missile+Site+SF-88L/@37.8192661,-122.543176,13.92z/data=!4m6!3m5!1s0x808585f1bb04a0f5:0x692d3b80397e8bd9!8m2!3d37.8271142!4d-122.5274177!16zL20vMDU3bF96?entry=ttu\">Marin Headlands\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Inside the buildings of Fort Scott\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Casual walkers through the Fort Scott complex often wonder why the buildings are sealed off. A primary reason is to preserve the remnants of life at the fort. Although not open to the public, the attic of Building 1216 is a perfect snapshot of daily life at Fort Scott during World War II. Murals wrap around the long white walls of this converted classroom, depicting everything from soldiers playing baseball on the parade field to gas mask training.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The story goes that a couple of the soldiers who had been drafted during the 1950s weren’t so happy about having wound up in Army life,” Thomson said. “But they did have a background in fine arts, and so their commanding officer invited them to spruce up the classroom with the murals that you now see around us.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11972774\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1920px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11972774\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/Baseball-mural-by-Perrin-Gerber-in-Building-1216-Bianca-Taylor_KQED.jpg\" alt=\"A slightly chipped mural depicting a batter, catcher and umpire at home plate. Behind them loom two towers of the Golden Gate Bridge.\" width=\"1920\" height=\"1440\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/Baseball-mural-by-Perrin-Gerber-in-Building-1216-Bianca-Taylor_KQED.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/Baseball-mural-by-Perrin-Gerber-in-Building-1216-Bianca-Taylor_KQED-800x600.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/Baseball-mural-by-Perrin-Gerber-in-Building-1216-Bianca-Taylor_KQED-1020x765.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/Baseball-mural-by-Perrin-Gerber-in-Building-1216-Bianca-Taylor_KQED-160x120.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/Baseball-mural-by-Perrin-Gerber-in-Building-1216-Bianca-Taylor_KQED-1536x1152.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Carefully preserved inside one of the Fort Scott buildings are murals of life at the base painted by Perrin Gerber, a soldier stationed there in the 1950s. \u003ccite>(Bianca Taylor/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The main artist was a soldier named Perrin Gerber, who painted the murals between 1956 and 1957.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Gerber’s family visited Fort Scott to see the murals and identified the artist’s personal touches. For example, the image painted on the inside of a gym locker in one of the scenes shares a likeness with Gerber’s girlfriend and future wife.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11972775\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1020px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11972775\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/GF-mural-Perrin-Gerbers-supposed-girlfriend-on-locker-Bianca-Taylor_KQED.jpg\" alt=\"Stylized painting of five soldiers hanging out in a locker room joking around.\" width=\"1020\" height=\"1360\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/GF-mural-Perrin-Gerbers-supposed-girlfriend-on-locker-Bianca-Taylor_KQED.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/GF-mural-Perrin-Gerbers-supposed-girlfriend-on-locker-Bianca-Taylor_KQED-800x1067.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/GF-mural-Perrin-Gerbers-supposed-girlfriend-on-locker-Bianca-Taylor_KQED-160x213.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1020px) 100vw, 1020px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">In this casual scene, Perrin Gerber’s family said they recognized the image of his then-girlfriend on the inside of the locker. \u003ccite>(Bianca Taylor/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>The Presidio Mutiny\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>A short walk away from Building 1216 is the Fort Scott Stockade, basically a military jail. This was the site of the infamous Presidio Mutiny of 1968.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Fort Scott didn’t escape the cultural upheaval of the 1960s and the national conversation about whether the U.S. should be fighting the Vietnam War. Soldiers who voiced anti-war sentiments were sent to the Fort Scott stockade, which soon became overcrowded. As conditions inside the jail got worse, tensions between guards and soldiers escalated.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The situation came to a head on Oct. 11, 1968, when a guard at Fort Scott shot and killed a 19-year-old soldier named Richard Bunch. Military authorities claimed that Bunch was disobeying orders, but Bunch’s fellow inmates saw his death as unjust and symbolic of the young lives being lost overseas. A few days after the shooting, 27 prisoners refused to report to work duty and staged a sit-in protest on the lawn outside the Stockade. They linked arms and sang “We Shall Overcome” while their commanding officers threatened them with mutiny, a charge punishable by death.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11972777\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1500px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11972777\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/Presidio_27_Sit-Down_14Oct1968-Wikimedia-Commons_U.S.-Army-Photos.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1500\" height=\"1201\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/Presidio_27_Sit-Down_14Oct1968-Wikimedia-Commons_U.S.-Army-Photos.jpg 1500w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/Presidio_27_Sit-Down_14Oct1968-Wikimedia-Commons_U.S.-Army-Photos-800x641.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/Presidio_27_Sit-Down_14Oct1968-Wikimedia-Commons_U.S.-Army-Photos-1020x817.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/Presidio_27_Sit-Down_14Oct1968-Wikimedia-Commons_U.S.-Army-Photos-160x128.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1500px) 100vw, 1500px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">On Oct. 14, 1968, 27 soldiers staged a sit-in outside the stockade to protest the shooting of their comrade, Richard Bunch. \u003ccite>(\u003ca href=\"https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Presidio_27_Sit-Down_14Oct1968_-_Image_1.jpg\">Wikimedia Commons/U.S. Army Photos\u003c/a>)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The Presidio Mutiny sparked a larger protest movement within the U.S. military against the Vietnam War, as director David Zeiger chronicles in \u003ca href=\"https://www.displacedfilms.com/films/sir-no-sir/\">his documentary, “Sir! No Sir!”\u003c/a> \u003ca href=\"https://www.netflix.com/title/70043764\">(now streaming on Netflix).\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It was a really important moment in that chapter of our history,” Thomson said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Inside the stockade — also closed to the public — the walls still hold the history of this moment. Above a cot in one of the solitary confinement cells, there’s a faintly scratched line of graffiti that reads, “Bunch was murdered.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Fort Scott today\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>In its nearly century of operation, Fort Scott had a perfect record of keeping San Francisco safe from attacks from the sky and the sea — because there were none.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“A lot of people will debate, was there no attack because it was so well-defended or were they never needed because we were never attacked? That’s up for historians to debate,” Thomson said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In 1988, Congress voted to end military operations at the Presidio. Six years later, \u003ca href=\"https://www.nps.gov/prsf/index.htm\">the Presidio became a part of the National Park Service\u003c/a>, which, along with the Presidio Trust, still manages the site today. In fact, many prominent open spaces, including Estuary Park in Alameda and parts of the Marin Headlands, were once military sites.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The military, and the way that it organized and sequestered lands around the Bay Area, really is directly responsible for the public lands we now have available to us,” Thomson said. “When Army bases closed in the Bay Area, [they’ve] traditionally been handed over to public open space agencies.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Presidio Trust hopes to reopen the buildings at Fort Scott someday, but the right plan hasn’t come along. In 2018, it \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11663954/for-200m-you-can-change-the-world-at-the-presidios-fort-scott\">held a competition, inviting organizations to submit ideas\u003c/a> to revitalize Fort Scott. WeWork and OpenAI submitted a joint proposal, but the Trust rejected it, saying the companies didn’t share their humanitarian vision for the abandoned 30 acres. Ultimately, the competition didn’t go anywhere.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For now, the Trust is keeping the roofs secure and the windows airtight so that the empty buildings don’t deteriorate too much.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We’re still taking good care of it,” Thomson said, “making sure it’s in good working order so that when we do have the resources, we can come back here and rehab these buildings.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Housing advocates would like to see some of the Fort Scott barracks converted into places for people to live, as has already been done with 1,500 units of former officer housing. Thomson says the idea is on the table, but the Trust hasn’t “gotten to that part in the planning yet.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So, for now, Fort Scott remains a windswept place to admire the views while walking through a military past that helped shape San Francisco.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[baycuriousquestion]\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Outside sounds of wind]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price (at scene):\u003c/b> Hey everyone, Olivia Allen-Price here. It’s a cold, but sunny Thursday afternoon, and Bay Curious producer Katrina Schwartz…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz (at scene):\u003c/b> Hello, that’s me!\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price (at scene):\u003c/b> …And I are knocking around The Presidio.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz (at scene):\u003c/b> That’s the roughly 2 square mile park at the northwest tip of San Francisco.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price (at scene):\u003c/b> So far we’ve seen the little yoda statue surrounded by the fountain.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Kid yelling “Yoda!”]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price (at scene):\u003c/b> What do you think of yoda?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz (at scene):\u003c/b> It looks a lot like yoda. I wish I could rub his belly, but he’s too high up there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price (at scene):\u003c/b> The dramatic cliff side vistas overlooking the Golden Gate Bridge.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz (at scene):\u003c/b> Wow!\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price (at scene):\u003c/b> We’ve got it all! We’ve got the Golden Gate Bridge. We have the Marin headlands. We have Point Bonita Lighthouse.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz (at scene):\u003c/b> Beautiful.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price (at scene): \u003c/b>Now we’re a short walk from the bluffs, just over Lincoln Ave. And there are dozens of old military buildings. Beige exteriors, pretty large buildings, red roofs and we’re standing in the middle of a big field.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz (at scene): \u003c/b>And what’s odd is there are very few people around. It’s a little bit eerie.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price (at scene): \u003c/b>Compared to where we were earlier, where all the buildings had been kind of fixed up, they were being used as businesses, these are empty.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz (at scene): \u003c/b>This is the heart of Fort Scott, what once was part of the largest army post on the Pacific coast.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price (at scene): \u003c/b>Over the years listeners have sent in a handful of questions about this place, and today we’re answering a few of them…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz (at scene): \u003c/b>Like what exactly is Fort Scott?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price (at scene):\u003c/b> What was life like here for soldiers?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz (at scene): \u003c/b>And why do these buildings remain closed up, when so many others in the Presidio have been put to modern use?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price (at scene):\u003c/b> That’s all just ahead on Bay Curious. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b> Fort Scott parade grounds is an often overlooked piece of the Presidio, despite being steps away from Golden Gate Bridge. KQED’s Bianca Taylor takes us there to answer some of your questions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Bianca Taylor:\u003c/b> One of the first things to know about Fort Scott is that its \u003ci>official\u003c/i> name is Fort \u003ci>Winfield\u003c/i> Scott.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rob Thomson:\u003c/b> Winfield Scott was one of the most prominent U.S. Army officers of the 19th century. And he was the person that the Army named many, many things after all over the country, including this place.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Bianca Taylor: \u003c/b>That’s Rob Thomson.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rob Thomson: \u003c/b>I’m the Federal Preservation Officer for the Presidio Trust.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Bianca Taylor: \u003c/b>The Presidio Trust is an independent federal agency which manages the majority of the buildings in the Presidio, including Fort Scott. Rob is giving me a tour, starting with the large grassy lawn that’s shaped like a horseshoe — called the parade ground.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rob Thomson: \u003c/b>We’re surrounded by ten enlisted men’s barracks buildings, most of which are vacant right now. There’s also a spectacular view of the Golden Gate Bridge, which nobody knew was going to be there when all of these buildings were built.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Bianca Taylor: \u003c/b>There are about 100 buildings that make up Fort Scott, including a gym, officers’ clubs, and even a notorious jail — but we’ll get to that in a little bit.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Today the site is mostly vacant — its buildings boarded up against the elements. But more than a century ago, Fort Scott was busy as the headquarters for the Army’s coastal defenses in the Bay Area.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Music begins]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The military history of the Presidio dates back to the Spanish colonization of Ohlone land in the 1700s. With its isolated cliffs and expansive views of the Bay, this part of San Francisco was a strategic location for protecting California against attackers from the West. After the U.S. gained control of it in 1848, the Presidio became the largest Army post on the Pacific Coast.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Fort Scott was built several decades later in 1912. As many as 1200 enlisted men lived and worked here. Their main duty was operating the 17 artillery batteries that lined the coast, basically giant cannons that shot bombs into the sea to protect the Pacific coast from attacking ships. You may have even seen the remnants of these batteries on a hike.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rob Thomson: \u003c/b>They’re these mysterious concrete structures that are out on the coastline that pepper our beaches and the surrounding bay. Those were state of the art defensive installations that were constructed beginning in the 1890s.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Bianca Taylor: \u003c/b>Manning these batteries was a tough job. They had to be looked after around the clock, which meant men were marching three miles round trip to camp out on some of the coldest, windiest, and most exposed parts of the coast.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Sound effects: “Sandby… fire”]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rob Thomson: \u003c/b>The soldiers who had to be out there all the time and this is pretty well documented, didn’t have a great day to day life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Bianca Taylor: \u003c/b>Practice fire was conducted a few times a year, weather depending. Anyone who’s tried to plan a beach day on the Coast can relate to this article in the San Francisco Examiner from September 30, 1915:\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Sounds of wind and a foghorn]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Voice over actor:\u003c/b> Foggy weather yesterday once more interfered with the artillery target practice at Fort Winfield Scott, and the mortar and 5-inch gun practice was put over until 10 o’clock this morning.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Bianca Taylor: \u003c/b>It didn’t take many years though for advancements in warfare to render the coastal batteries at Fort Scott obsolete.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[ Sound of a plane flying overhead]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>By World War Two, the advent of air power meant the real threat to San Francisco was coming from airplanes, not ships. In 1950, the Army terminated its Coast Artillery Division and the attention of Fort Scott turned to mapmaking, surveying, and anti-aircraft defenses.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rob Thomson: \u003c/b>There is a Nike missile site here in the Presidio, along with perhaps a better known one over in the Marin headlands. And that was really the focus of defensive activity here, rather than coast artillery batteries any longer.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Bianca Taylor: \u003c/b>Nike missiles, which look like high tech cousins of the coastal artillery batteries, were designed to shoot planes out of the sky. And they dominated the military landscape during the Cold War.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If you want to get a snapshot of what daily life looked like at Fort Scott, you don’t need to look any further than the attic of building 1216.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Sound of climbing stairs. “Oh my goodness!”]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rob Thomson: \u003c/b>This is an area that we currently keep off limits even to the staff who work in this building, because we’re trying to preserve the murals that are painted on the walls here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Wow]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Bianca Taylor: \u003c/b>In this attic-turned-classroom space, the long white walls are covered in painted murals that wrap around the room. The paintings depict everything from soldiers playing baseball on the parade field, to a gas mask training for chemical warfare.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rob Thomson: \u003c/b>The story goes that a couple of the soldiers who had been drafted during the 1950s weren’t so happy about having wound up in Army life. But they did have a background in fine arts, and so their commanding officer invited them to spruce up the classroom with the murals that you now see around us.\u003cb> \u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Bianca Taylor: \u003c/b>The main artist was a man named Perrin Gerber, who was a specialist third class at Fort Scott. He painted the murals in 1956 and 57. Rob says Gerber’s family has come to see the murals for themselves and pointed out personal touches.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rob Thomson: \u003c/b>This image that’s painted on the inside of a locker on one of the murals is supposedly his girlfriend and future wife.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Bianca Taylor: \u003c/b>But building 1216 isn’t the only structure at Fort Scott with a story to tell.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Bianca Taylor (in scene): \u003c/b>Is this the jail? Stockade?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rob Thomson: \u003c/b>This is the Fort Scott Stockade also known as a jail, building 1213 It was built in 1912. This was the site of the famous Presidio Mutiny.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Bianca Taylor: \u003c/b>In 1968, the United States was locked in the midst of the Vietnam War. Protests were happening all over the country.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Archival tape: \u003c/b>Because I am sick of the racist war in Vietnam when we don’t have justice in the United States.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Bianca Taylor: \u003c/b>American soldiers were also protesting, including in the Presidio. The Fort Scott stockade was overcrowded with military personnel who had voiced anti-war sentiments and as conditions inside the jail got worse, tensions between guards and soldiers escalated. \u003cb> \u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The situation came to an explosive head on October 11, 1968 when military police at Fort Scott killed a 19-year old prisoner named Richard Bunch.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the 2005 documentary, “Sir, No Sir” director David Zeiger interviewed some of the men who were there that day.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“\u003cb>Sir, No Sir” Footage: \u003c/b>The guard shot him and killed him, you know, point blank. And his only crime is, not wanted to be there and, um, going AWOL. So we reacted, uh, viscerally and with anger and disgust and outrage. We tore that jail apart. Uh, we ripped the wires out of the walls, ripped the squawk box off the wall. \u003cb>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/b>\u003cb>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/b>\u003cb>Bianca Taylor: \u003c/b>After their initial anger, the soldiers got organized and decided to take a stand.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“\u003cb>Sir, No Sir” Footage: \u003c/b>We came to a decision that the best thing we could do was to have some kind of a demonstration. And it was at the roll call formation. We had a signal, and that was when we were supposed to break ranks. And we did. And then we walked over here and sat down.\u003cbr>\n\u003cb>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/b>\u003cb>Bianca Taylor: \u003c/b>27 prisoners staged a sit-in protest at the stockade. They sang “We Shall Overcome” and read a list of demands.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“\u003cb>Sir, No Sir” Footage: \u003c/b>At a certain point, the commandant came out and read us, uh, the Mutiny Act, and we just kept singing louder and kind of linked arms and sing and sing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Bianca Taylor: \u003c/b>The 27 protestors were all charged with mutiny, a crime punishable by death.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“\u003cb>Sir, No Sir” Footage: \u003c/b>And we were scared, man. I’ll tell you, we were really scared.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Bianca Taylor: \u003c/b>Their actions drew support from around the nation, and the mutiny charges were eventually dropped.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“\u003cb>Sir, No Sir” Footage: \u003c/b>They were finally listening to us, man. That’s the first time I can ever remember anybody listening to us while I was in the military.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Bianca Taylor: \u003c/b>The impact of their protest went beyond the gates of Fort Scott.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rob Thomson: \u003c/b>And it sparked a movement of protest within the U.S. military against the Vietnam War, which was a really important moment in that chapter of our history.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Bianca Taylor: \u003c/b>You can still see ghosts of the Presidio Mutiny today. If you look hard at the wall of one of the solitary confinement cells, you can read the words “Bunch was murdered” etched into the wall.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Congress voted to end military operations at Fort Scott, and the entire Presidio, in 1988. Six years later, the region became a part of the National Park Service, which along with the Presidio Trust, still manages the site today.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For nearly a century, Fort Scott had a perfect record of keeping San Francisco safe from attacks from the sky and the sea because there were none.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rob Thomson: \u003c/b>And so a lot of people will debate, well, was there no attack because it was so well-defended or were they never needed because we were never attacked? And that’s up for, you know, historians to debate.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Bianca Taylor: \u003c/b>Standing on the Fort Scott Parade grounds now it’s so peaceful, with chirping birds and the Golden Gate bridge peeking out between the rooftops, that its tumultuous military past feels like a very long time ago. But as Rob points out, the military is largely responsible for a lot of what the Bay Area looks like now:\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rob Thomson: \u003c/b>When Army bases closed, they’ve in the Bay Area traditionally been handed over to public open space agencies. So if it weren’t for the military, we wouldn’t really have the same outdoor access and traditions that we have in the Bay Area.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Bianca Taylor: \u003c/b>Other state parks that used to belong to the military include Estuary Park in Alameda and Fort Ord Dunes State Park in Monterey.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As for plans to restore Fort Scott’s buildings for public use, that’s a long way off. Right now the empty buildings have been what Rob describes as “mothballed.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rob Thomson: \u003c/b>So we’ve invested a certain amount of money to make sure that the roofs are secure, that we’ve painted them, that the windows are watertight, and that they’re sitting here in a state that is somewhat arrested deterioration.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Bianca Taylor: \u003c/b>The Presidio Trust held a competition in 2018, inviting organizations to submit their ideas of how they would revitalize Fort Scott. WeWork and OpenAI submitted a joint proposal, but the Trust rejected it. They said the companies didn’t share their humanitarian vision for the abandoned 30 acres and the competition didn’t go anywhere. Rob says even though the Trust has been focusing on other priorities in the 1500 acre Presidio…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rob Thomson: \u003c/b>We haven’t turned our backs on Fort Scott by any means. We’re still taking good care of it, making sure it’s in good working order so that when we do have the resources and we have taken care of some other priorities, namely our infrastructure, we can come back here and rehab these buildings.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Bianca Taylor: \u003c/b>There are two residential neighborhoods in Fort Scott where people are currently living. These 1500 residential units are former apartments and homes of Army officers that were stationed here. This opens up the question of converting some of the \u003ci>other\u003c/i> buildings into housing in the future.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rob Thomson: \u003c/b>You know, it’s possible that some of these barracks buildings could be converted into residential, but we haven’t gotten to that part in the planning yet.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Bianca Taylor: \u003c/b>It may be some time before you can wander around the inside of Fort Scott, but it’s still a lovely place to visit, maybe have a picnic, or just walk through a little piece of Bay Area history.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Outro music]\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/i>\u003cbr>\n\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b> That was KQED’s Bianca Taylor.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If you love Bay Curious one small step you can take is subscribe or follow the show in your podcast listening app. It’s free, and is the best way to make sure you don’t miss an episode. Thanks!\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Bay Curious is made in San Francisco at member-supported KQED. Our show is produced by Katrina Schwartz, Christopher Beale and me, Olivia Allen-Price. Additional support from Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Cesar Saldana, Maha Sanad, Holly Kernan and the whole KQED Family.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I hope you have a great week!\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"An active military site for nearly a century, the secrets of Fort Scott are now hidden behind boarded-up buildings on the edge of the Presidio of San Francisco.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1705534952,"stats":{"hasAudio":true,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":true,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":127,"wordCount":4443},"headData":{"title":"The Hidden History of Fort Scott in San Francisco's Presidio | KQED","description":"An active military site for nearly a century, the secrets of Fort Scott are now hidden behind boarded-up buildings on the edge of the Presidio of San Francisco.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"The Hidden History of Fort Scott in San Francisco's Presidio","datePublished":"2024-01-18T11:00:56.000Z","dateModified":"2024-01-17T23:42:32.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"Y","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"source":"Bay Curious","sourceUrl":"https://www.kqed.org/podcasts/baycurious/","audioUrl":"https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/pdst.fm/e/chrt.fm/track/G6C7C3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC4303079219.mp3?updated=1705534346","sticky":false,"excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11972756/the-hidden-history-of-fort-scott-in-san-franciscos-presidio","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Wander onto the parade ground of Fort Scott, and one of the first questions that comes to mind is: “What is this place?” A large grassy field is bordered by tall beige buildings with red roofs. The place feels deserted, the windows boarded up but still preserved. It’s eerie to be in such a big open space with so few people around — just a few dog walkers and a cyclist or two.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s particularly odd because Fort Scott is just steps away from epic views over the Golden Gate Bridge, a well-traveled cycling path, and one of the biggest thoroughfares running through the park. But none of that bustle seems to reach this collection of empty buildings.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003caside class=\"alignleft utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__bayCuriousPodcastShortcode__bayCurious\">\u003cimg src=https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/bayCuriousLogo.png alt=\"Bay Curious Podcast\" />\n \u003ca href=\"/news/series/baycurious\">Bay Curious\u003c/a> is a podcast that answers your questions about the Bay Area.\n Subscribe on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/bay-curious/id1172473406\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Apple Podcasts\u003c/a>,\n \u003ca href=\"http://www.npr.org/podcasts/500557090/bay-curious\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">NPR One\u003c/a> or your favorite podcast platform.\u003c/aside>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Over the years, our listeners have wondered what Fort Scott was used for, what life was like there, and why it remains closed up when so much of the Presidio has been put to modern use. To answer these questions, we took a trip to the edge of the city and back in time.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Defending the Pacific \u003c/h2>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11972765\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 600px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11972765\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/Coastal-defense-gun-at-Fort-Winfield-Scott-in-the-Presidio-1939-SAN-FRANCISCO-HISTORY-CENTER-SAN-FRANCISCO-PUBLIC-LIBRARY.jpg\" alt=\"Outline of a man in old fashioned military uniform stands next to a cannon pointed a soupy mass of clouds.\" width=\"600\" height=\"480\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/Coastal-defense-gun-at-Fort-Winfield-Scott-in-the-Presidio-1939-SAN-FRANCISCO-HISTORY-CENTER-SAN-FRANCISCO-PUBLIC-LIBRARY.jpg 600w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/Coastal-defense-gun-at-Fort-Winfield-Scott-in-the-Presidio-1939-SAN-FRANCISCO-HISTORY-CENTER-SAN-FRANCISCO-PUBLIC-LIBRARY-160x128.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 600px) 100vw, 600px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Coastal defense gun at Fort Winfield Scott in the Presidio, 1939. \u003ccite>(Courtesy \u003ca href=\"https://digitalsf.org/islandora/object/islandora:131391\">San Francisco History Center\u003c/a>/San Francisco Public Library)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>San Francisco’s Presidio has a long military history, of which Fort Scott is just one part. In 1776, Spanish colonizers landed on Ohlone land and decided this northwest spit of land overlooking the narrow entrance to the Bay would be a strategic location for protecting the Pacific coast from attacking ships. Once the territory became part of the U.S. in 1848, the military continued fortifying the site.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Fort Scott — whose official name is actually Fort \u003ci>Winfield \u003c/i>Scott, \u003ca href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winfield_Scott\">after one of the most prominent U.S. officers of the 19th century\u003c/a> — was built in 1912 to be the Army’s new Coast Artillery Headquarters. The soldiers stationed here defended the Pacific Coast from offshore attacks.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC4303079219&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Everything that the army needed to operate a post of about 1,000 to 1,200 people was here,” said Rob Thomson, federal preservation officer for the \u003ca href=\"https://presidio.gov/\">Presidio Trust\u003c/a>, an independent federal agency that manages the majority of the buildings in the Presidio.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The center of the fort is a horseshoe-shaped lawn known as the parade ground. Ten barracks buildings surround the parade ground, each housing 105 soldiers. This is where soldiers would practice their drills, perform flag ceremonies and assemble for inspections.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11972766\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-11972766 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/circa-1912-barracks-at-Fort-Winfield-Scott.jpg\" alt=\"Sepia colored photo shows a large barracks building with three straight rows of soldiers lined up in front. In the distance is water and hills.\" width=\"1000\" height=\"712\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/circa-1912-barracks-at-Fort-Winfield-Scott.jpg 1000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/circa-1912-barracks-at-Fort-Winfield-Scott-800x570.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/circa-1912-barracks-at-Fort-Winfield-Scott-160x114.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1000px) 100vw, 1000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Coastal Artillery soldiers lined up in front of a barracks at Fort Winfield Scott, circa 1912. \u003ccite>(\u003ca href=\"https://opensfhistory.org/Display/wnp27.4791.jpg\">OpenSFHistory / wnp27.4791\u003c/a>)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“There’s also a spectacular view of the Golden Gate Bridge, which nobody knew was going to be there when all of these buildings were built,” Thomson said. \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11749629/the-golden-gate-bridge-your-questions-answered?utm_medium=Email&utm_source=ExactTarget&utm_campaign=Bay%20Curious%20Newsletter&mc_key=00Q1Y00001pDwBAUA0\">The Golden Gate Bridge wasn’t finished until 1937.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Soldiers stationed at Fort Scott early in the 20th century had one main duty: man the 17 artillery batteries lining the coast. Remnants of these giant cannons that stuck out of the cliffside are still visible on coastal hikes through the Presidio. When they were first built in the 1890s, they were considered state-of-the-art defensive installations and nicknamed “Uncle Sam’s guardians.” But keeping the batteries in working order was a harsh job.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11972767\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11972767\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/Fort-Scott-Presidio-opensfhistory_wnp71.20033.jpg\" alt=\"Black and white photo of a large cannon placed on top of a hill and pointed out over a wall.\" width=\"1000\" height=\"679\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/Fort-Scott-Presidio-opensfhistory_wnp71.20033.jpg 1000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/Fort-Scott-Presidio-opensfhistory_wnp71.20033-800x543.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/Fort-Scott-Presidio-opensfhistory_wnp71.20033-160x109.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1000px) 100vw, 1000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Gun #3 at Battery Godfrey in Fort Winfield Scott. Gun #2 is visible at right. \u003ccite>(\u003ca href=\"https://opensfhistory.org/Display/wnp71.20033.jpg\">OpenSFHistory / wnp71.20033\u003c/a>)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“The soldiers who had to be out there all the time didn’t have a great day-to-day life,” Thomson said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Soldiers camped out on the windy, cold coastline in long, unpleasant shifts. The largest of the batteries needed 14 men to aim and load the guns, and the ammunition weighed up to 1,000 pounds. Test explosions were so loud they would damage the windows and doors of nearby residents.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11972771\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 600px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11972771\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/1942-Hidden-anti-aircraft-gun-at-Fort-Winfield-Scott-Presidio-SAN-FRANCISCO-HISTORY-CENTER-SAN-FRANCISCO-PUBLIC-LIBRARY.jpg\" alt=\"Sepia photo of three soldiers lifting a wooden hatch in a hill to reveal an anti-aircraft gun.\" width=\"600\" height=\"442\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/1942-Hidden-anti-aircraft-gun-at-Fort-Winfield-Scott-Presidio-SAN-FRANCISCO-HISTORY-CENTER-SAN-FRANCISCO-PUBLIC-LIBRARY.jpg 600w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/1942-Hidden-anti-aircraft-gun-at-Fort-Winfield-Scott-Presidio-SAN-FRANCISCO-HISTORY-CENTER-SAN-FRANCISCO-PUBLIC-LIBRARY-160x118.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 600px) 100vw, 600px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Hidden anti-aircraft gun at Fort Winfield Scott in San Francisco’s Presidio, circa 1942. \u003ccite>(Courtesy \u003ca href=\"https://digitalsf.org/islandora/object/islandora:131329\">San Francisco History Center\u003c/a>/San Francisco Public Library)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>It didn’t take many years for advancements in warfare to render the coastal batteries at Fort Scott obsolete. The advent of air power meant that by the time World War II started, the real threat to San Francisco was from airplanes, not ships. In 1950, the Army terminated its Coast Artillery Division, and soldiers at Fort Scott were reassigned to mapmaking, surveying, and anti-aircraft defenses, most notably Nike missiles. It’s still possible to visit the \u003ca href=\"https://www.google.com/maps/place/Nike+Missile+Site+SF-89L/@37.7920473,-122.4842431,15z/data=!4m6!3m5!1s0x8085871e6dfcf64f:0x83cb162384d3023f!8m2!3d37.7919456!4d-122.4740722!16s%2Fg%2F1tjdx3qq?entry=ttu\">Nike missile site\u003c/a> south of Fort Scott and the one in the \u003ca href=\"https://www.google.com/maps/place/Nike+Missile+Site+SF-88L/@37.8192661,-122.543176,13.92z/data=!4m6!3m5!1s0x808585f1bb04a0f5:0x692d3b80397e8bd9!8m2!3d37.8271142!4d-122.5274177!16zL20vMDU3bF96?entry=ttu\">Marin Headlands\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Inside the buildings of Fort Scott\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Casual walkers through the Fort Scott complex often wonder why the buildings are sealed off. A primary reason is to preserve the remnants of life at the fort. Although not open to the public, the attic of Building 1216 is a perfect snapshot of daily life at Fort Scott during World War II. Murals wrap around the long white walls of this converted classroom, depicting everything from soldiers playing baseball on the parade field to gas mask training.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The story goes that a couple of the soldiers who had been drafted during the 1950s weren’t so happy about having wound up in Army life,” Thomson said. “But they did have a background in fine arts, and so their commanding officer invited them to spruce up the classroom with the murals that you now see around us.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11972774\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1920px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11972774\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/Baseball-mural-by-Perrin-Gerber-in-Building-1216-Bianca-Taylor_KQED.jpg\" alt=\"A slightly chipped mural depicting a batter, catcher and umpire at home plate. Behind them loom two towers of the Golden Gate Bridge.\" width=\"1920\" height=\"1440\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/Baseball-mural-by-Perrin-Gerber-in-Building-1216-Bianca-Taylor_KQED.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/Baseball-mural-by-Perrin-Gerber-in-Building-1216-Bianca-Taylor_KQED-800x600.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/Baseball-mural-by-Perrin-Gerber-in-Building-1216-Bianca-Taylor_KQED-1020x765.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/Baseball-mural-by-Perrin-Gerber-in-Building-1216-Bianca-Taylor_KQED-160x120.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/Baseball-mural-by-Perrin-Gerber-in-Building-1216-Bianca-Taylor_KQED-1536x1152.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Carefully preserved inside one of the Fort Scott buildings are murals of life at the base painted by Perrin Gerber, a soldier stationed there in the 1950s. \u003ccite>(Bianca Taylor/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The main artist was a soldier named Perrin Gerber, who painted the murals between 1956 and 1957.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Gerber’s family visited Fort Scott to see the murals and identified the artist’s personal touches. For example, the image painted on the inside of a gym locker in one of the scenes shares a likeness with Gerber’s girlfriend and future wife.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11972775\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1020px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11972775\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/GF-mural-Perrin-Gerbers-supposed-girlfriend-on-locker-Bianca-Taylor_KQED.jpg\" alt=\"Stylized painting of five soldiers hanging out in a locker room joking around.\" width=\"1020\" height=\"1360\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/GF-mural-Perrin-Gerbers-supposed-girlfriend-on-locker-Bianca-Taylor_KQED.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/GF-mural-Perrin-Gerbers-supposed-girlfriend-on-locker-Bianca-Taylor_KQED-800x1067.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/GF-mural-Perrin-Gerbers-supposed-girlfriend-on-locker-Bianca-Taylor_KQED-160x213.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1020px) 100vw, 1020px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">In this casual scene, Perrin Gerber’s family said they recognized the image of his then-girlfriend on the inside of the locker. \u003ccite>(Bianca Taylor/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>The Presidio Mutiny\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>A short walk away from Building 1216 is the Fort Scott Stockade, basically a military jail. This was the site of the infamous Presidio Mutiny of 1968.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Fort Scott didn’t escape the cultural upheaval of the 1960s and the national conversation about whether the U.S. should be fighting the Vietnam War. Soldiers who voiced anti-war sentiments were sent to the Fort Scott stockade, which soon became overcrowded. As conditions inside the jail got worse, tensions between guards and soldiers escalated.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The situation came to a head on Oct. 11, 1968, when a guard at Fort Scott shot and killed a 19-year-old soldier named Richard Bunch. Military authorities claimed that Bunch was disobeying orders, but Bunch’s fellow inmates saw his death as unjust and symbolic of the young lives being lost overseas. A few days after the shooting, 27 prisoners refused to report to work duty and staged a sit-in protest on the lawn outside the Stockade. They linked arms and sang “We Shall Overcome” while their commanding officers threatened them with mutiny, a charge punishable by death.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11972777\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1500px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11972777\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/Presidio_27_Sit-Down_14Oct1968-Wikimedia-Commons_U.S.-Army-Photos.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1500\" height=\"1201\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/Presidio_27_Sit-Down_14Oct1968-Wikimedia-Commons_U.S.-Army-Photos.jpg 1500w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/Presidio_27_Sit-Down_14Oct1968-Wikimedia-Commons_U.S.-Army-Photos-800x641.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/Presidio_27_Sit-Down_14Oct1968-Wikimedia-Commons_U.S.-Army-Photos-1020x817.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/Presidio_27_Sit-Down_14Oct1968-Wikimedia-Commons_U.S.-Army-Photos-160x128.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1500px) 100vw, 1500px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">On Oct. 14, 1968, 27 soldiers staged a sit-in outside the stockade to protest the shooting of their comrade, Richard Bunch. \u003ccite>(\u003ca href=\"https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Presidio_27_Sit-Down_14Oct1968_-_Image_1.jpg\">Wikimedia Commons/U.S. Army Photos\u003c/a>)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The Presidio Mutiny sparked a larger protest movement within the U.S. military against the Vietnam War, as director David Zeiger chronicles in \u003ca href=\"https://www.displacedfilms.com/films/sir-no-sir/\">his documentary, “Sir! No Sir!”\u003c/a> \u003ca href=\"https://www.netflix.com/title/70043764\">(now streaming on Netflix).\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It was a really important moment in that chapter of our history,” Thomson said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Inside the stockade — also closed to the public — the walls still hold the history of this moment. Above a cot in one of the solitary confinement cells, there’s a faintly scratched line of graffiti that reads, “Bunch was murdered.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Fort Scott today\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>In its nearly century of operation, Fort Scott had a perfect record of keeping San Francisco safe from attacks from the sky and the sea — because there were none.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“A lot of people will debate, was there no attack because it was so well-defended or were they never needed because we were never attacked? That’s up for historians to debate,” Thomson said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In 1988, Congress voted to end military operations at the Presidio. Six years later, \u003ca href=\"https://www.nps.gov/prsf/index.htm\">the Presidio became a part of the National Park Service\u003c/a>, which, along with the Presidio Trust, still manages the site today. In fact, many prominent open spaces, including Estuary Park in Alameda and parts of the Marin Headlands, were once military sites.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The military, and the way that it organized and sequestered lands around the Bay Area, really is directly responsible for the public lands we now have available to us,” Thomson said. “When Army bases closed in the Bay Area, [they’ve] traditionally been handed over to public open space agencies.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Presidio Trust hopes to reopen the buildings at Fort Scott someday, but the right plan hasn’t come along. In 2018, it \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11663954/for-200m-you-can-change-the-world-at-the-presidios-fort-scott\">held a competition, inviting organizations to submit ideas\u003c/a> to revitalize Fort Scott. WeWork and OpenAI submitted a joint proposal, but the Trust rejected it, saying the companies didn’t share their humanitarian vision for the abandoned 30 acres. Ultimately, the competition didn’t go anywhere.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For now, the Trust is keeping the roofs secure and the windows airtight so that the empty buildings don’t deteriorate too much.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We’re still taking good care of it,” Thomson said, “making sure it’s in good working order so that when we do have the resources, we can come back here and rehab these buildings.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Housing advocates would like to see some of the Fort Scott barracks converted into places for people to live, as has already been done with 1,500 units of former officer housing. Thomson says the idea is on the table, but the Trust hasn’t “gotten to that part in the planning yet.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So, for now, Fort Scott remains a windswept place to admire the views while walking through a military past that helped shape San Francisco.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"baycuriousquestion","attributes":{"named":{"label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Outside sounds of wind]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price (at scene):\u003c/b> Hey everyone, Olivia Allen-Price here. It’s a cold, but sunny Thursday afternoon, and Bay Curious producer Katrina Schwartz…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz (at scene):\u003c/b> Hello, that’s me!\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price (at scene):\u003c/b> …And I are knocking around The Presidio.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz (at scene):\u003c/b> That’s the roughly 2 square mile park at the northwest tip of San Francisco.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price (at scene):\u003c/b> So far we’ve seen the little yoda statue surrounded by the fountain.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Kid yelling “Yoda!”]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price (at scene):\u003c/b> What do you think of yoda?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz (at scene):\u003c/b> It looks a lot like yoda. I wish I could rub his belly, but he’s too high up there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price (at scene):\u003c/b> The dramatic cliff side vistas overlooking the Golden Gate Bridge.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz (at scene):\u003c/b> Wow!\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price (at scene):\u003c/b> We’ve got it all! We’ve got the Golden Gate Bridge. We have the Marin headlands. We have Point Bonita Lighthouse.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz (at scene):\u003c/b> Beautiful.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price (at scene): \u003c/b>Now we’re a short walk from the bluffs, just over Lincoln Ave. And there are dozens of old military buildings. Beige exteriors, pretty large buildings, red roofs and we’re standing in the middle of a big field.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz (at scene): \u003c/b>And what’s odd is there are very few people around. It’s a little bit eerie.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price (at scene): \u003c/b>Compared to where we were earlier, where all the buildings had been kind of fixed up, they were being used as businesses, these are empty.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz (at scene): \u003c/b>This is the heart of Fort Scott, what once was part of the largest army post on the Pacific coast.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price (at scene): \u003c/b>Over the years listeners have sent in a handful of questions about this place, and today we’re answering a few of them…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz (at scene): \u003c/b>Like what exactly is Fort Scott?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price (at scene):\u003c/b> What was life like here for soldiers?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz (at scene): \u003c/b>And why do these buildings remain closed up, when so many others in the Presidio have been put to modern use?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price (at scene):\u003c/b> That’s all just ahead on Bay Curious. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b> Fort Scott parade grounds is an often overlooked piece of the Presidio, despite being steps away from Golden Gate Bridge. KQED’s Bianca Taylor takes us there to answer some of your questions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Bianca Taylor:\u003c/b> One of the first things to know about Fort Scott is that its \u003ci>official\u003c/i> name is Fort \u003ci>Winfield\u003c/i> Scott.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rob Thomson:\u003c/b> Winfield Scott was one of the most prominent U.S. Army officers of the 19th century. And he was the person that the Army named many, many things after all over the country, including this place.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Bianca Taylor: \u003c/b>That’s Rob Thomson.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rob Thomson: \u003c/b>I’m the Federal Preservation Officer for the Presidio Trust.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Bianca Taylor: \u003c/b>The Presidio Trust is an independent federal agency which manages the majority of the buildings in the Presidio, including Fort Scott. Rob is giving me a tour, starting with the large grassy lawn that’s shaped like a horseshoe — called the parade ground.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rob Thomson: \u003c/b>We’re surrounded by ten enlisted men’s barracks buildings, most of which are vacant right now. There’s also a spectacular view of the Golden Gate Bridge, which nobody knew was going to be there when all of these buildings were built.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Bianca Taylor: \u003c/b>There are about 100 buildings that make up Fort Scott, including a gym, officers’ clubs, and even a notorious jail — but we’ll get to that in a little bit.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Today the site is mostly vacant — its buildings boarded up against the elements. But more than a century ago, Fort Scott was busy as the headquarters for the Army’s coastal defenses in the Bay Area.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Music begins]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The military history of the Presidio dates back to the Spanish colonization of Ohlone land in the 1700s. With its isolated cliffs and expansive views of the Bay, this part of San Francisco was a strategic location for protecting California against attackers from the West. After the U.S. gained control of it in 1848, the Presidio became the largest Army post on the Pacific Coast.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Fort Scott was built several decades later in 1912. As many as 1200 enlisted men lived and worked here. Their main duty was operating the 17 artillery batteries that lined the coast, basically giant cannons that shot bombs into the sea to protect the Pacific coast from attacking ships. You may have even seen the remnants of these batteries on a hike.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rob Thomson: \u003c/b>They’re these mysterious concrete structures that are out on the coastline that pepper our beaches and the surrounding bay. Those were state of the art defensive installations that were constructed beginning in the 1890s.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Bianca Taylor: \u003c/b>Manning these batteries was a tough job. They had to be looked after around the clock, which meant men were marching three miles round trip to camp out on some of the coldest, windiest, and most exposed parts of the coast.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Sound effects: “Sandby… fire”]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rob Thomson: \u003c/b>The soldiers who had to be out there all the time and this is pretty well documented, didn’t have a great day to day life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Bianca Taylor: \u003c/b>Practice fire was conducted a few times a year, weather depending. Anyone who’s tried to plan a beach day on the Coast can relate to this article in the San Francisco Examiner from September 30, 1915:\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Sounds of wind and a foghorn]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Voice over actor:\u003c/b> Foggy weather yesterday once more interfered with the artillery target practice at Fort Winfield Scott, and the mortar and 5-inch gun practice was put over until 10 o’clock this morning.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Bianca Taylor: \u003c/b>It didn’t take many years though for advancements in warfare to render the coastal batteries at Fort Scott obsolete.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[ Sound of a plane flying overhead]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>By World War Two, the advent of air power meant the real threat to San Francisco was coming from airplanes, not ships. In 1950, the Army terminated its Coast Artillery Division and the attention of Fort Scott turned to mapmaking, surveying, and anti-aircraft defenses.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rob Thomson: \u003c/b>There is a Nike missile site here in the Presidio, along with perhaps a better known one over in the Marin headlands. And that was really the focus of defensive activity here, rather than coast artillery batteries any longer.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Bianca Taylor: \u003c/b>Nike missiles, which look like high tech cousins of the coastal artillery batteries, were designed to shoot planes out of the sky. And they dominated the military landscape during the Cold War.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If you want to get a snapshot of what daily life looked like at Fort Scott, you don’t need to look any further than the attic of building 1216.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Sound of climbing stairs. “Oh my goodness!”]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rob Thomson: \u003c/b>This is an area that we currently keep off limits even to the staff who work in this building, because we’re trying to preserve the murals that are painted on the walls here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Wow]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Bianca Taylor: \u003c/b>In this attic-turned-classroom space, the long white walls are covered in painted murals that wrap around the room. The paintings depict everything from soldiers playing baseball on the parade field, to a gas mask training for chemical warfare.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rob Thomson: \u003c/b>The story goes that a couple of the soldiers who had been drafted during the 1950s weren’t so happy about having wound up in Army life. But they did have a background in fine arts, and so their commanding officer invited them to spruce up the classroom with the murals that you now see around us.\u003cb> \u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Bianca Taylor: \u003c/b>The main artist was a man named Perrin Gerber, who was a specialist third class at Fort Scott. He painted the murals in 1956 and 57. Rob says Gerber’s family has come to see the murals for themselves and pointed out personal touches.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rob Thomson: \u003c/b>This image that’s painted on the inside of a locker on one of the murals is supposedly his girlfriend and future wife.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Bianca Taylor: \u003c/b>But building 1216 isn’t the only structure at Fort Scott with a story to tell.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Bianca Taylor (in scene): \u003c/b>Is this the jail? Stockade?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rob Thomson: \u003c/b>This is the Fort Scott Stockade also known as a jail, building 1213 It was built in 1912. This was the site of the famous Presidio Mutiny.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Bianca Taylor: \u003c/b>In 1968, the United States was locked in the midst of the Vietnam War. Protests were happening all over the country.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Archival tape: \u003c/b>Because I am sick of the racist war in Vietnam when we don’t have justice in the United States.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Bianca Taylor: \u003c/b>American soldiers were also protesting, including in the Presidio. The Fort Scott stockade was overcrowded with military personnel who had voiced anti-war sentiments and as conditions inside the jail got worse, tensions between guards and soldiers escalated. \u003cb> \u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The situation came to an explosive head on October 11, 1968 when military police at Fort Scott killed a 19-year old prisoner named Richard Bunch.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the 2005 documentary, “Sir, No Sir” director David Zeiger interviewed some of the men who were there that day.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“\u003cb>Sir, No Sir” Footage: \u003c/b>The guard shot him and killed him, you know, point blank. And his only crime is, not wanted to be there and, um, going AWOL. So we reacted, uh, viscerally and with anger and disgust and outrage. We tore that jail apart. Uh, we ripped the wires out of the walls, ripped the squawk box off the wall. \u003cb>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/b>\u003cb>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/b>\u003cb>Bianca Taylor: \u003c/b>After their initial anger, the soldiers got organized and decided to take a stand.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“\u003cb>Sir, No Sir” Footage: \u003c/b>We came to a decision that the best thing we could do was to have some kind of a demonstration. And it was at the roll call formation. We had a signal, and that was when we were supposed to break ranks. And we did. And then we walked over here and sat down.\u003cbr>\n\u003cb>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/b>\u003cb>Bianca Taylor: \u003c/b>27 prisoners staged a sit-in protest at the stockade. They sang “We Shall Overcome” and read a list of demands.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“\u003cb>Sir, No Sir” Footage: \u003c/b>At a certain point, the commandant came out and read us, uh, the Mutiny Act, and we just kept singing louder and kind of linked arms and sing and sing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Bianca Taylor: \u003c/b>The 27 protestors were all charged with mutiny, a crime punishable by death.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“\u003cb>Sir, No Sir” Footage: \u003c/b>And we were scared, man. I’ll tell you, we were really scared.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Bianca Taylor: \u003c/b>Their actions drew support from around the nation, and the mutiny charges were eventually dropped.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“\u003cb>Sir, No Sir” Footage: \u003c/b>They were finally listening to us, man. That’s the first time I can ever remember anybody listening to us while I was in the military.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Bianca Taylor: \u003c/b>The impact of their protest went beyond the gates of Fort Scott.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rob Thomson: \u003c/b>And it sparked a movement of protest within the U.S. military against the Vietnam War, which was a really important moment in that chapter of our history.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Bianca Taylor: \u003c/b>You can still see ghosts of the Presidio Mutiny today. If you look hard at the wall of one of the solitary confinement cells, you can read the words “Bunch was murdered” etched into the wall.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Congress voted to end military operations at Fort Scott, and the entire Presidio, in 1988. Six years later, the region became a part of the National Park Service, which along with the Presidio Trust, still manages the site today.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For nearly a century, Fort Scott had a perfect record of keeping San Francisco safe from attacks from the sky and the sea because there were none.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rob Thomson: \u003c/b>And so a lot of people will debate, well, was there no attack because it was so well-defended or were they never needed because we were never attacked? And that’s up for, you know, historians to debate.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Bianca Taylor: \u003c/b>Standing on the Fort Scott Parade grounds now it’s so peaceful, with chirping birds and the Golden Gate bridge peeking out between the rooftops, that its tumultuous military past feels like a very long time ago. But as Rob points out, the military is largely responsible for a lot of what the Bay Area looks like now:\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rob Thomson: \u003c/b>When Army bases closed, they’ve in the Bay Area traditionally been handed over to public open space agencies. So if it weren’t for the military, we wouldn’t really have the same outdoor access and traditions that we have in the Bay Area.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Bianca Taylor: \u003c/b>Other state parks that used to belong to the military include Estuary Park in Alameda and Fort Ord Dunes State Park in Monterey.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As for plans to restore Fort Scott’s buildings for public use, that’s a long way off. Right now the empty buildings have been what Rob describes as “mothballed.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rob Thomson: \u003c/b>So we’ve invested a certain amount of money to make sure that the roofs are secure, that we’ve painted them, that the windows are watertight, and that they’re sitting here in a state that is somewhat arrested deterioration.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Bianca Taylor: \u003c/b>The Presidio Trust held a competition in 2018, inviting organizations to submit their ideas of how they would revitalize Fort Scott. WeWork and OpenAI submitted a joint proposal, but the Trust rejected it. They said the companies didn’t share their humanitarian vision for the abandoned 30 acres and the competition didn’t go anywhere. Rob says even though the Trust has been focusing on other priorities in the 1500 acre Presidio…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rob Thomson: \u003c/b>We haven’t turned our backs on Fort Scott by any means. We’re still taking good care of it, making sure it’s in good working order so that when we do have the resources and we have taken care of some other priorities, namely our infrastructure, we can come back here and rehab these buildings.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Bianca Taylor: \u003c/b>There are two residential neighborhoods in Fort Scott where people are currently living. These 1500 residential units are former apartments and homes of Army officers that were stationed here. This opens up the question of converting some of the \u003ci>other\u003c/i> buildings into housing in the future.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rob Thomson: \u003c/b>You know, it’s possible that some of these barracks buildings could be converted into residential, but we haven’t gotten to that part in the planning yet.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Bianca Taylor: \u003c/b>It may be some time before you can wander around the inside of Fort Scott, but it’s still a lovely place to visit, maybe have a picnic, or just walk through a little piece of Bay Area history.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Outro music]\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/i>\u003cbr>\n\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b> That was KQED’s Bianca Taylor.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If you love Bay Curious one small step you can take is subscribe or follow the show in your podcast listening app. It’s free, and is the best way to make sure you don’t miss an episode. Thanks!\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Bay Curious is made in San Francisco at member-supported KQED. Our show is produced by Katrina Schwartz, Christopher Beale and me, Olivia Allen-Price. Additional support from Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Cesar Saldana, Maha Sanad, Holly Kernan and the whole KQED Family.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I hope you have a great week!\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11972756/the-hidden-history-of-fort-scott-in-san-franciscos-presidio","authors":["11365"],"series":["news_17986"],"categories":["news_28250"],"tags":["news_3631","news_33726","news_5664","news_4170"],"featImg":"news_11972854","label":"source_news_11972756"},"news_11970139":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11970139","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11970139","score":null,"sort":[1703156428000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"dialing-pop-corn-once-gave-you-the-time","title":"Dialing 'POP-CORN' Once Gave You the Time","publishDate":1703156428,"format":"standard","headTitle":"Dialing ‘POP-CORN’ Once Gave You the Time | KQED","labelTerm":{"term":33523,"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003cem>Read the transcript for this episode\u003c/em>\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For decades, there was a phone service in Northern California that would read you the time and date if you dialed POP-CORN, the letters that represented 767-2676. That service went dark back in 2007, and Bay Curious listener George wants to know why. In this nostalgic episode, we take a romp through the innovative technology that powered time-and-date services, and meet the beloved voice behind POP-CORN, Joanne Daniels.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Read the web version of this episode here: \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11853891/you-used-to-be-able-to-call-pop-corn-and-get-the-time-what-happened-to-that\">You Used to Be Able to Call POP-CORN and Get the Time. What Happened to That?\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC6318064323&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Reported by Christopher Beale. This episode was made by Olivia Allen-Price, Katrina Schwartz, Suzie Racho, Christopher Beale and Katie McMurran. Additional support from Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Cesar Saldana, Maha Sanad, Holly Kernan, and the entire KQED family.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> OK, so here is a throwback memory some of you might be familiar with…For decades, there was a phone service in Northern California that would read you the time if you dialed up a number. It was called POPCORN. Or 767-2676 if you wanna be boring about it. When you needed the exact time, you could dial up this number, and an automated message would play…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Archival Recording:\u003c/strong> At the tone, Pacific Daylight Time Will Be…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Listener 1: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Because we spent a lot of time calling popcorn, I still remember her voice.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Listener 2: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you’re inside the BART station, you could look up and you could see what time it was. But once you were outside the BART station, you were oblivious to what time it was. So they need just find a pay phone and you just dial popcorn. And that’s how you knew if your mom was late or when the next BART train was coming. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It was a handy service for a while. But in 2007, POPCORN went dark. A Bay Curious listener named George wants to know why. Today, we’re … looking at the history and ultimate demise of POPCORN. This episode first ran on Bay Curious in 2021 and is one of our team’s all-time favorite episodes. Stay tuned. I’m Olivia Allen-Price. Reporter Christopher Beale takes us inside the wonderful world of POPCORN…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Peter Amstein:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Telephone service began in this country in 1878. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s Peter Amstein.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Peter Amstein: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I am the president of the board of directors of the telecommunications history group.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>In the years following Alexander Graham Bell’s invention, phone service begins to spread across the country, and those earliest phones were connected by operators.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> If you wanted to make a call, you would pick up the handset and speak to a human who would manually connect you.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Archival sound: \u003c/b>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is information. May I help you? Yes, I’d like the new number of Wilson’s meat market. 1191 Sycamore Street, please. One moment, please. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Peter Amstein: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The phone company wanted to be friendly and helpful. And certainly, if the operators weren’t too busy and had time, they would answer all sorts of questions for people, including about what the weather was…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And the current time. In those days, unless you had a good wristwatch or clock, that you remembered to wind. You may not have had completely accurate time on you like we do today. That’s where the operator came in. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Peter Amstein: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Starting in 1870 already, Western Union, who was the Telegraph company, offered a nationwide, highly accurate time service, where they would install a clock in your business that was controlled centrally by their master clock in New York City and represented super accurate it’s time for the day. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You might find this type of clock in a railroad station, and the phone company would have had one as well. So, while it wasn’t an official service, you could call the operator and say, “What time ya got?”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Peter Amstein: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She would tell you. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And that was pretty much the norm until 1918 when our planet’s last great pandemic made its way through the population. The Spanish Flu killed hundreds of thousands of Americans. The country was at war with an invisible force and \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">communication\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> was an important weapon. Those early operators became — essential workers, you might say.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Peter Amstein: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The phone company started putting notices, the newspapers, telling people the operators would no longer answer questions like what time it was, because they needed them to concentrate fully on connecting people’s phone calls. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">By the time the Spanish Flu ran its course in the early 20s, some cities were experimenting with a semi-automated, live time-of-day service. This was a doozy. To get the time, you would dial a number and be added to a very brief queue. This machine would play a beep every 7.5 seconds, you’d hear the beep and be connected, along with all the other callers in the queue.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Peter Amstein: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And then a human being, always a woman, would be sitting at a desk, looking at a clock and reading out the time live, and then waiting for the beep and then reading it out. Live.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you called in during the brief window where she was reading each quarter minute — you’d be queued for the next reading…7 and a half seconds later. Can you imagine this being your job? At the tone, it will be 9:55 and 45 seconds. At the tone, it will be 9:56 and 00 seconds. I’m already bored. In addition to being boring — this just wasn’t a feasible long-term answer to the need for time. The world was changing rapidly and a completely automated solution was needed. The good news — the phone company already had some useful technology just laying around. Called a drum recorder — these machines were used to playback repetitive messages on the phone like: \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Phone recording:\u003c/b> \u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you’d like to make a call, please hang up and try again. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I mean, we’re talking about early tape deck technology. But that tech-inspired a man named John Franklin.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Peter Amstein: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Who was the proprietor of something called Tick Tock Ginger ale \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">To create his own ad-supported time and date phone service. The first of its kind.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Peter Amstein: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">he used one of the phone companies drum recorders and modified it so that it would always announce the current time.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">John Franklin’s invention would help him found the Audichron company in the 1930s. The technology they created was installed in cities big and small across the country. Audichron would hire an actress to read the times and dates and even sponsors in some cases. And then that modified drum recorder technology would handle the playback. In each region, the time service would have its own dedicated line, or in the case of Northern California … 30,000 dedicated lines …more on that in a second. The announcer in Northern California’s recordings, lovingly referred to as the time lady from the 1960s to the very end it was Ms. Joanne Daniels. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Joanne Daniels:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Good afternoon, at the tone Pacific Daylight Time will be 12:24 and 10 seconds. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b> I think this is so cool — as the time, lady Joanne had a sort of a general American accent, but in real life, she has a southern accent that she can turn on and off.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Joanne Daniels: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Since we’re having a friendly conversation, I’m just being myself.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Joanne talked to Steve Rubenstein of the San Francisco Chronicle in August of 2007.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steve Rubenstein: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Ms. Daniels, we’re speaking because, uh, AT&T has announced here in Northern California that it is canceling the time service recording as of September 19th, which is more or less the end of an era. And, uh, Ms. Daniels, this a distressing day out here in California? Is it distressing for you in Atlanta to hear that?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Joanne Daniels:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It certainly is distressing. I feel like I’m fading away. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There are likely two main reasons that POPCORN was abandoned. The first has to do with the way the number is dialed. You would start with your area code, 510 or 415, etc. Then dial 767 (this was the POP) in popcorn, and it worked all over Northern California. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Peter Amstein:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Any four digits that you dialed after seven, six, seven would get you the time of day service.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And we’re not talking about just one phone number in each area code here. We’re talking tens of thousands of phone numbers directed at POPCORN.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Peter Amstein: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That was a technical shortcut for them.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">By eliminating that shortcut and POPCORN…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Peter Amstein: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They were able to get 30,000 new phone numbers.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The other main reason popcorn, and similar services across the country began to go away — the prevalence of new technologies like our cell phones. Which always have the correct time — but are also always listening to us in a not-at-all-creepy sort of way.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Siri: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hey, I heard that.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In 2007, Steve Jobs announced the first ever iPhone…and just three months later — time caught up with POPCORN. And AT&T pulled the plug. Joanne Daniels told the Chronicle that she thinks that’s really sad.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Joanne Daniels: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think it’s filled a need for a lot of people that aren’t quite, as I would say, modern as the trend is going.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Are there still any time-of-day services in operation today?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Peter Amstein:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Sure. Yes. For example, you can call the US Naval Observatory in Washington, DC, at 202-762-1401. And here the time of day recording, of course, you get East Coast time that way. You can also call the National Institute of Standards and Technologies. Time of day number in Boulder, Colorado. There are also still a fair number of advertisers sponsored local time-of-day numbers.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Including, by the way, 415-Pop-Corn in San Francisco…Where today, you’ll find an ad, the date and the time of day. Of course, these days, your smart home or smartphone’s digital assistant can give you the date, the time, the weather, and more. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Siri:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> But, we will never be able to replace …the POPCORN time lady. She was the best.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Joanne Daniels:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I’m going to miss being with you. And I would like to thank everyone in San Francisco for listening to me for all these many years.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">John Franklin’s Tick Tock Ginger Ale faded into obscurity, but Audichron is still around, making computerized automated phone services to this day under a different name. Apple did alright with their iPhone. And as of December 2020 — Joanne Daniels is retired and living in Atlanta, GA.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Joanne Daniels:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The time in San Francisco is time for me to say goodbye.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Dial tone\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>(End of story)\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>Reporter Christopher Beale\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Olivia Allen-Price: We are sad to share that Joanne Daniels died in February 2023. She was 91. In her obituary, it’s said she always had a smile on her face and was a joyous influence to those around her.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s all for today, folks. If you enjoyed this story, maybe it brought back some warm, fuzzy memories..? Do us a solid and share it with a friend. We rely on word of mouth to grow, so everything you can do helps! Thanks!\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Bay Curious is made in San Francisco at member-supported KQED.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This episode was produced by Katrina Schwartz, Christopher Beale, Suzie Racho, Katie McMurran and me, Olivia Allen-Price. \u003c/span>Additional support from Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Cesar Saldana, Maha Sanad, Bianca Taylor, Holly Kernan and the whole KQED Family.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We’re off next week for the holidays, but we’ll be back the first week in January. Thank you so much for listening and I wish you joy and peace in these finals weeks of 2023.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[baycuriousquestion]\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"Before technology made knowing the exact time ubiquitous, folks could dial a phone number to help set their clocks. ","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1703103618,"stats":{"hasAudio":true,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":true,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":63,"wordCount":2131},"headData":{"title":"Dialing 'POP-CORN' Once Gave You the Time | KQED","description":"Before technology made knowing the exact time ubiquitous, folks could dial a phone number to help set their clocks. ","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"Dialing 'POP-CORN' Once Gave You the Time","datePublished":"2023-12-21T11:00:28.000Z","dateModified":"2023-12-20T20:20:18.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"Y","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"audioUrl":"https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/pdst.fm/e/chrt.fm/track/G6C7C3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC6318064323.mp3?updated=1703096174","sticky":false,"excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11970139/dialing-pop-corn-once-gave-you-the-time","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003cem>Read the transcript for this episode\u003c/em>\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For decades, there was a phone service in Northern California that would read you the time and date if you dialed POP-CORN, the letters that represented 767-2676. That service went dark back in 2007, and Bay Curious listener George wants to know why. In this nostalgic episode, we take a romp through the innovative technology that powered time-and-date services, and meet the beloved voice behind POP-CORN, Joanne Daniels.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Read the web version of this episode here: \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11853891/you-used-to-be-able-to-call-pop-corn-and-get-the-time-what-happened-to-that\">You Used to Be Able to Call POP-CORN and Get the Time. What Happened to That?\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC6318064323&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Reported by Christopher Beale. This episode was made by Olivia Allen-Price, Katrina Schwartz, Suzie Racho, Christopher Beale and Katie McMurran. Additional support from Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Cesar Saldana, Maha Sanad, Holly Kernan, and the entire KQED family.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> OK, so here is a throwback memory some of you might be familiar with…For decades, there was a phone service in Northern California that would read you the time if you dialed up a number. It was called POPCORN. Or 767-2676 if you wanna be boring about it. When you needed the exact time, you could dial up this number, and an automated message would play…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Archival Recording:\u003c/strong> At the tone, Pacific Daylight Time Will Be…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Listener 1: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Because we spent a lot of time calling popcorn, I still remember her voice.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Listener 2: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you’re inside the BART station, you could look up and you could see what time it was. But once you were outside the BART station, you were oblivious to what time it was. So they need just find a pay phone and you just dial popcorn. And that’s how you knew if your mom was late or when the next BART train was coming. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It was a handy service for a while. But in 2007, POPCORN went dark. A Bay Curious listener named George wants to know why. Today, we’re … looking at the history and ultimate demise of POPCORN. This episode first ran on Bay Curious in 2021 and is one of our team’s all-time favorite episodes. Stay tuned. I’m Olivia Allen-Price. Reporter Christopher Beale takes us inside the wonderful world of POPCORN…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Peter Amstein:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Telephone service began in this country in 1878. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s Peter Amstein.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Peter Amstein: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I am the president of the board of directors of the telecommunications history group.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>In the years following Alexander Graham Bell’s invention, phone service begins to spread across the country, and those earliest phones were connected by operators.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> If you wanted to make a call, you would pick up the handset and speak to a human who would manually connect you.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Archival sound: \u003c/b>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is information. May I help you? Yes, I’d like the new number of Wilson’s meat market. 1191 Sycamore Street, please. One moment, please. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Peter Amstein: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The phone company wanted to be friendly and helpful. And certainly, if the operators weren’t too busy and had time, they would answer all sorts of questions for people, including about what the weather was…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And the current time. In those days, unless you had a good wristwatch or clock, that you remembered to wind. You may not have had completely accurate time on you like we do today. That’s where the operator came in. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Peter Amstein: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Starting in 1870 already, Western Union, who was the Telegraph company, offered a nationwide, highly accurate time service, where they would install a clock in your business that was controlled centrally by their master clock in New York City and represented super accurate it’s time for the day. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You might find this type of clock in a railroad station, and the phone company would have had one as well. So, while it wasn’t an official service, you could call the operator and say, “What time ya got?”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Peter Amstein: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She would tell you. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And that was pretty much the norm until 1918 when our planet’s last great pandemic made its way through the population. The Spanish Flu killed hundreds of thousands of Americans. The country was at war with an invisible force and \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">communication\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> was an important weapon. Those early operators became — essential workers, you might say.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Peter Amstein: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The phone company started putting notices, the newspapers, telling people the operators would no longer answer questions like what time it was, because they needed them to concentrate fully on connecting people’s phone calls. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">By the time the Spanish Flu ran its course in the early 20s, some cities were experimenting with a semi-automated, live time-of-day service. This was a doozy. To get the time, you would dial a number and be added to a very brief queue. This machine would play a beep every 7.5 seconds, you’d hear the beep and be connected, along with all the other callers in the queue.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Peter Amstein: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And then a human being, always a woman, would be sitting at a desk, looking at a clock and reading out the time live, and then waiting for the beep and then reading it out. Live.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you called in during the brief window where she was reading each quarter minute — you’d be queued for the next reading…7 and a half seconds later. Can you imagine this being your job? At the tone, it will be 9:55 and 45 seconds. At the tone, it will be 9:56 and 00 seconds. I’m already bored. In addition to being boring — this just wasn’t a feasible long-term answer to the need for time. The world was changing rapidly and a completely automated solution was needed. The good news — the phone company already had some useful technology just laying around. Called a drum recorder — these machines were used to playback repetitive messages on the phone like: \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Phone recording:\u003c/b> \u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you’d like to make a call, please hang up and try again. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I mean, we’re talking about early tape deck technology. But that tech-inspired a man named John Franklin.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Peter Amstein: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Who was the proprietor of something called Tick Tock Ginger ale \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">To create his own ad-supported time and date phone service. The first of its kind.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Peter Amstein: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">he used one of the phone companies drum recorders and modified it so that it would always announce the current time.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">John Franklin’s invention would help him found the Audichron company in the 1930s. The technology they created was installed in cities big and small across the country. Audichron would hire an actress to read the times and dates and even sponsors in some cases. And then that modified drum recorder technology would handle the playback. In each region, the time service would have its own dedicated line, or in the case of Northern California … 30,000 dedicated lines …more on that in a second. The announcer in Northern California’s recordings, lovingly referred to as the time lady from the 1960s to the very end it was Ms. Joanne Daniels. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Joanne Daniels:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Good afternoon, at the tone Pacific Daylight Time will be 12:24 and 10 seconds. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b> I think this is so cool — as the time, lady Joanne had a sort of a general American accent, but in real life, she has a southern accent that she can turn on and off.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Joanne Daniels: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Since we’re having a friendly conversation, I’m just being myself.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Joanne talked to Steve Rubenstein of the San Francisco Chronicle in August of 2007.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steve Rubenstein: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Ms. Daniels, we’re speaking because, uh, AT&T has announced here in Northern California that it is canceling the time service recording as of September 19th, which is more or less the end of an era. And, uh, Ms. Daniels, this a distressing day out here in California? Is it distressing for you in Atlanta to hear that?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Joanne Daniels:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It certainly is distressing. I feel like I’m fading away. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There are likely two main reasons that POPCORN was abandoned. The first has to do with the way the number is dialed. You would start with your area code, 510 or 415, etc. Then dial 767 (this was the POP) in popcorn, and it worked all over Northern California. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Peter Amstein:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Any four digits that you dialed after seven, six, seven would get you the time of day service.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And we’re not talking about just one phone number in each area code here. We’re talking tens of thousands of phone numbers directed at POPCORN.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Peter Amstein: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That was a technical shortcut for them.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">By eliminating that shortcut and POPCORN…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Peter Amstein: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They were able to get 30,000 new phone numbers.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The other main reason popcorn, and similar services across the country began to go away — the prevalence of new technologies like our cell phones. Which always have the correct time — but are also always listening to us in a not-at-all-creepy sort of way.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Siri: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hey, I heard that.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In 2007, Steve Jobs announced the first ever iPhone…and just three months later — time caught up with POPCORN. And AT&T pulled the plug. Joanne Daniels told the Chronicle that she thinks that’s really sad.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Joanne Daniels: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think it’s filled a need for a lot of people that aren’t quite, as I would say, modern as the trend is going.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Are there still any time-of-day services in operation today?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Peter Amstein:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Sure. Yes. For example, you can call the US Naval Observatory in Washington, DC, at 202-762-1401. And here the time of day recording, of course, you get East Coast time that way. You can also call the National Institute of Standards and Technologies. Time of day number in Boulder, Colorado. There are also still a fair number of advertisers sponsored local time-of-day numbers.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Including, by the way, 415-Pop-Corn in San Francisco…Where today, you’ll find an ad, the date and the time of day. Of course, these days, your smart home or smartphone’s digital assistant can give you the date, the time, the weather, and more. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Siri:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> But, we will never be able to replace …the POPCORN time lady. She was the best.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Joanne Daniels:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I’m going to miss being with you. And I would like to thank everyone in San Francisco for listening to me for all these many years.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">John Franklin’s Tick Tock Ginger Ale faded into obscurity, but Audichron is still around, making computerized automated phone services to this day under a different name. Apple did alright with their iPhone. And as of December 2020 — Joanne Daniels is retired and living in Atlanta, GA.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Joanne Daniels:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The time in San Francisco is time for me to say goodbye.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Dial tone\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>(End of story)\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>Reporter Christopher Beale\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Olivia Allen-Price: We are sad to share that Joanne Daniels died in February 2023. She was 91. In her obituary, it’s said she always had a smile on her face and was a joyous influence to those around her.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s all for today, folks. If you enjoyed this story, maybe it brought back some warm, fuzzy memories..? Do us a solid and share it with a friend. We rely on word of mouth to grow, so everything you can do helps! Thanks!\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Bay Curious is made in San Francisco at member-supported KQED.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This episode was produced by Katrina Schwartz, Christopher Beale, Suzie Racho, Katie McMurran and me, Olivia Allen-Price. \u003c/span>Additional support from Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Cesar Saldana, Maha Sanad, Bianca Taylor, Holly Kernan and the whole KQED Family.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We’re off next week for the holidays, but we’ll be back the first week in January. Thank you so much for listening and I wish you joy and peace in these finals weeks of 2023.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"baycuriousquestion","attributes":{"named":{"label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11970139/dialing-pop-corn-once-gave-you-the-time","authors":["11749"],"programs":["news_33523"],"series":["news_17986"],"categories":["news_8"],"tags":["news_3631"],"featImg":"news_11970153","label":"news_33523"},"news_11969411":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11969411","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11969411","score":null,"sort":[1702551636000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"how-bay-area-italians-were-treated-as-enemy-aliens-during-wwii","title":"How Bay Area Italians Were Treated as 'Enemy Aliens' During WWII","publishDate":1702551636,"format":"standard","headTitle":"How Bay Area Italians Were Treated as ‘Enemy Aliens’ During WWII | KQED","labelTerm":{"term":33523,"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">View the full episode transcript\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[dropcap] D[/dropcap]uring a casual Christmas celebration with her 90-year-old grandmother last year, Becca Gularte, a self-proclaimed history buff and third-generation Californian, was rocked by a family story she had never heard before. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">In 1942, her grandma Laura Gularte, then an elementary school kid in Santa Cruz, was forced to leave her coastal home because her dad was an Italian citizen. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Becca was taken aback. She peppered Laura with questions.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">‘Why did you have to move across town? What do you mean it was because you were Italians?’” Becca remembers. “We had all heard so much about Japanese internment growing up. We were all just so surprised that this had happened to this whole other population.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Becca’s husband, James King, asked Bay Curious to investigate. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And as we found out, Becca’s great-grandfather was one of roughly 10,000 Italian citizens living in California who were forced to leave their homes during World War II. It was just one of many government measures meant to protect the West Coast from an enemy invasion that never came. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Wartime security\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Within months of the attack on Pearl Harbor in December 1941, as more than 100,000 Japanese Americans were being sent to incarceration camps, other ethnic groups also became the target of new wartime security measures. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[baycuriouspodcastinfo]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Italian citizens living near California’s coastline and military sites — some 10,000 of them — were forced to leave their homes and find somewhere else to live.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Laura Gularte’s father, Quinto Neri, was one of them. Neri left Tuscany in Northern Italy in 1911, eventually settling in Santa Cruz, California. He bought land on the coast and became a Brussels sprout farmer.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Laura was just 7 years old when her family had to move from their coastal home in Santa Cruz to just across town, which was outside of an area prohibited by the U.S. military. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">“It had a big impact on my father because he was farming rented land that was in the restricted area. So he had to give up his farming,” Laura Gularte remembers. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11969477\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1920px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11969477\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/Gulartes_cropped.jpg\" alt=\"An elderly woman poses with six adult grandchildren at her 90th birthday party. \" width=\"1920\" height=\"1231\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/Gulartes_cropped.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/Gulartes_cropped-800x513.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/Gulartes_cropped-1020x654.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/Gulartes_cropped-160x103.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/Gulartes_cropped-1536x985.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Laura Gularte, middle, at her 90th birthday party with all of her grandchildren. Bay Curious question-asker Becca Gularte is on the far left. \u003ccite>(Courtesy photo)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">After Italy and Germany declared war on the United States, President Franklin Roosevelt gave military commanders and other officials sweeping rights to protect the homeland. These new powers led to the mass incarceration of Japanese Americans as well as a slew of new rules on Italian and German citizens living in the U.S.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">“\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">This war is a new kind of war,” Roosevelt says in a February 1942 speech. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">“\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We shall give up conveniences and modify the routine of our lives if our country asks us to do so. We will do it cheerfully.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Italian citizens had to register as enemy aliens, and many were subject to an 8 p.m. curfew. They couldn’t travel more than 5 miles away from home. People’s houses were searched for “contraband,” including cameras and radios. So-called enemy aliens could be arrested if they violated the new rules.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But the new security measures were applied differently across the United States, and General John DeWitt, who oversaw security for the West Coast, was much more draconian than his counterparts elsewhere. On the East Coast, for example, Italian citizens had travel restrictions, but they weren’t subject to curfew or the mass relocation ordered by General DeWitt, historians say.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">“\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[DeWitt] was terrified that under his watch, the West Coast was going to be invaded,” says Lawrence DiStasi, author and editor of \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.heydaybooks.com/catalog/una-storia-segreta-the-secret-history-of-italian-american-evacuation-and-internment-during-world-war-ii/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cem>Una Storia Segreta: The Secret History of Italian American Evacuation and Internment during World War II\u003c/em>\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">DiStasi says “paranoia” led General DeWitt to evict Italians from large swaths of the Pacific coast to avoid an enemy invasion. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">“It was partly hysteria, partly overkill, I think.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Bay Area Italians in limbo\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Millions of Italians came to the U.S. for a better life before World War II, many landing in urban centers like New York City. But others ventured to California, becoming fishermen, farmworkers and helping to grow the wine industry. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Italians all around the San Francisco Bay Area were living in the newly declared prohibited zones, including thousands in the cities of Alameda, Richmond and Pittsburg. At least 1,500 Italians were relocated out of Pittsburg because of their proximity to a military site, says Vince Ferrante, president of the Pittsburg Italian American Club and historian for the Pittsburg Historical Society. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">“Some families lost their businesses, lost their livelihoods,” he says. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">To those who had to move, like Al Bruzzone, 92, in Richmond, the dividing line between what was restricted or not seemed pretty arbitrary. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11969474\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1920px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11969474\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/Bruzzone.jpg\" alt=\"An elderly man sitting outside. \" width=\"1920\" height=\"1440\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/Bruzzone.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/Bruzzone-800x600.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/Bruzzone-1020x765.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/Bruzzone-160x120.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/Bruzzone-1536x1152.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Al Bruzzone, 92, grew up in the East Bay city of Richmond and still lives there. When his parents were forced to relocate during World War II, he temporarily stayed in an Oakland apartment with his parents. \u003ccite>(Pauline Bartolone/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">“If you lived west of San Pablo Avenue, you had the move. If you lived east of San Pablo Avenue, you didn’t have to worry about it,” he says.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Bruzzone grew up on his family’s 40-acre lettuce farm in Richmond. He still remembers being 11 years old when the relocation orders came. It split his family up — he and his two younger siblings moved with his parents to a rented apartment in Oakland. But his siblings who were old enough to live by themselves, and American-born, stayed in Richmond and worked the farm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">“On weekends, my brother Jim and I, we would go back. My brothers would pick us up, and we’d go back to where I was growing up,” remembers Bruzzone. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Other Italians who didn’t have the money to rent homes when they were relocated moved in with friends or lived in substandard migrant housing. Bruzzone thought the whole ordeal was a big government mistake. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">“Most of the people came to this country because they were poor in Europe and they had a chance to accomplish something here,” he says. “They would never, never, never go fight against the country because they were doing so well here.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Italian fisherman\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">At the onset of the war, 80% of California’s fishermen were Italian. In 1942, their boats were seized by the U.S. Coast Guard, as the late historian Rose Scherini recounts in her chapter of “Una Storia Segreta.” Italian citizens were not allowed to fish on coastal waters. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">That affected Italians working on San Francisco’s Fisherman’s Wharf, like Ken Borelli’s uncle Girolamo Cantatore. He lived in San Francisco and was a crab fisherman embarking off the now-famous tourist area. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">When Cantatore lost his vessel and his ability to fish during the war, he made a wooden replica of the boat, and his nephew, Borelli, still had it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11969451\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1920px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11969451\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/Borelli.jpg\" alt=\"A man looks at a model boat on a kitchen table.\" width=\"1920\" height=\"1440\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/Borelli.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/Borelli-800x600.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/Borelli-1020x765.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/Borelli-160x120.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/Borelli-1536x1152.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Ken Borelli and the model boat his uncle Girolamo Cantatore made after the crab fishing boat he used was seized by US forces. \u003ccite>(Pauline Bartolone/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">“He was a very meticulous person,” Borelli says as he looks at the model boat, which is about two feet wide and is detailed with several deck levels and miniature lifeboats. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Borelli says he doesn’t know whether his uncle was ever compensated or saw his boat again (although according to Scherini, fishermen were given monthly compensation for their seized boats).\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But the boat replica shows his uncle had idle hands and “a yearning to go back to sea,” Borelli says.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Italians in prison camps\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Italian Americans didn’t just endure forced relocation, hundreds more were sent to prison camps too. As many as 300–400 Italians were incarcerated, DiStasi says. They were moved around from camp to camp around the country until they ultimately wound up in Fort Missoula, Montana. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">“A lot of people mistakenly assume that Japanese Americans were the only ones affected by national security fears,” says UC Santa Cruz historian Alice Yang, adding that Italians and Germans also had their civil liberties infringed upon. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">People were imprisoned for being journalists at Italian radio stations and newspapers, teaching the Italian language or simply being veterans of World War I. These activities were seen as promoting Italian pride, Yang says, and in the wartime era, that was considered subversive.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">“A lot of the assumptions about whether someone might be a security threat were based on prejudicial views of ethnicity,” Yang says. “Having ethnic pride, if your pride was associated with an axis power, could land you on one of these lists.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">To be clear, DiStasi says a good portion of Italian immigrants in the U.S. at the time \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">were\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> supporters of Benito Mussolini, the Nazi-allied fascist leader of Italy. They may not have been in favor of what he did, DiStasi says, but they liked that he was creating a new image for Italy. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">“They felt that he had finally put Italy on the map and gained some respect for Italy and throughout the world,” DiStasi says. “But that didn’t mean that they were going to engage in any kind of anti-American activities.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Being “high profile” didn’t exempt Italian citizens from wartime security measures. New York-based opera singer \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.italianhistorical.org/internment.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Ezio Pinza\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> was incarcerated without charge for three months, according to Yang. And baseball Hall of Famer Joe DiMaggio’s mother, who lived in San Francisco, \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/proclamation-2527-internment-italian-americans\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">was arrested\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>‘You have met the test’\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Then, in October 1942, quite sharply, the American government changed its tune about Italians. \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/ag/legacy/2011/09/16/10-12-1942.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Attorney General Francis Biddle gave a speech at Carnegie Hall in New York City\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">,\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> applauding the high number of Italian Americans currently serving in the U.S. military.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">“Into the war against the Axis, they have sent their own sons,” Biddle proclaimed. “These Americans of Italian ancestry will help Italy again to become a free nation.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">By the end of the month Biddle says, the restrictions on Italian citizens would end. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">“I say tonight: You have met the test. Your loyalty to the democracy which has given you this chance, you have proved and proved well. Make the most of it. See to it that all Italians remain loyal.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The Italians who were imprisoned stayed in camps until 1943, but the relocated Italian Americans in California, like Al Bruzzone and Laura Gularte, got to go home. In total, they’d endured five months of a relocation order and about eight months of curfews and travel restrictions. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">“Somebody finally realized they made a mistake,” Bruzzone says, pointing out the irony of Italian citizens in California being forced to move away from their homes while their children were being drafted to fight in the war. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Laura Gularte, who now lives in Salinas, says it was hard for her dad to restart his Brussels sprouts farm after restrictions were lifted, so he went to work for others in the agricultural industry. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">She says her parents didn’t discuss their hardships with her, but she knows it was difficult for her father. At the same time, she says, “We were much luckier than the Japanese, who were encamped and lost everything.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Ferrante, of Pittsburg, says many elders in the Italian American community didn’t pass these stories down, and that’s why second and third-generation families don’t know much about this history. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">“There’s a stigma attached to it,” explained Ferrante, whose great-grandmother was relocated during World War II. The sentiment among them was, “‘We’re tax-paying citizens, we’re productive in our community, we work here, so what happened, what did we do wrong?’” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But Historian Alice Yang says there are important reasons to remember this history. For the government: Not to use ethnicity to determine who is dangerous and not to let wartime fears subvert civil rights. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Now that she knows more about what her great-grandfather went through, our question-asker, Becca Gularte, says, “It makes you realize … it’s a hard thing to be an immigrant.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This story has been updated to reflect the fact that war time restrictions on Italians were issued through more than one government proclamation, not just Executive Order 9066.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[baycuriousquestion]\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Around the holidays, family stories sometimes surface at the dinner table. Remember Grandma Joyce? She rode a motorcycle. Or Great Gran-Daddy Willie? He scrimped and saved long after the Depression was over.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Then there are tales like Becca Gularte recently heard from her grandma … about how her family was forced from their California home during World War 2. She hadn’t heard that one before. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Becca Gularte:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> It was, it was sort of with that, wait, why did you have to move across town kind of thing? And then she said, Oh, it was because we were Italians. And then we kept prompting her with questions to say, What do you mean It was because you were Italians?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> In the early 1940s, as more than 100,000 Japanese Americans were being sent to incarceration camps, other ethnic groups were also being targeted. Italian citizens living in California — some 10,000 of them — were forced to relocate.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Becca Gularte: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We had all heard so much about Japanese internment growing up and and just really that being sort of the story, especially in California. And I think we were all just so surprised that this had happened to this whole other population of people. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Becca and her husband wanted to know more, so they wrote to Bay Curious to find out how this bit of family history fits into California textbooks. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Becca Gularte:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> What types of restrictions like this were placed on Italian Americans during World War Two and why don’t more people know about it? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Today on Bay Curious, we’re doing a deep dive into what Italians experienced in California during World War II and how it was different here from the rest of the country. I’m Olivia Allen-Price. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Producer Pauline Bartolone picks up the story from here. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> To start investigating this question about how Italians were treated in California during World War two, we went straight to the source. Grandma… Our question-asker Becca Gularte’s grandma that is. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Laura Gularte:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> My name is Laura Neri Gularte. I’m 90 years old. I was born and grew up in Santa Cruz, California.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Laura Gularte now lives in Salinas. It was her father, Quinto Neri, who came to California in 1911 from Tuscany in Northern Italy. He was one of millions of Italians who came to the U.S. for a better life. Many stayed in urban centers like New York City, but others ventured farther to California, becoming fishermen, working in agriculture and the wine industry. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Laura Gularte:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> He came at age 17 because they were starving. It was a large family. And he knew some people in San Francisco who sponsored him. And so he went to work in Half Moon Bay.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Laura’s dad farmed Brussels sprouts and built a life for himself. He bought some land and a house. But then … the second World War hit and Italy declared war on the United States. Suddenly, Laura’s dad went from starting to achieve a middle-class life to being labeled ‘enemy alien.’\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Archival audio of President Franklin Roosevelt: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">This war is a new kind of war. It is different from all other wars of the past…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The President of the United States at the time, Franklin Roosevelt gave military commanders sweeping rights to protect the homeland after the 1941 attack on Pearl Harbor. That’s what led to the mass incarceration of Japanese Americans. But since Italy and Germany had also declared war on the US, new restrictions applied to their citizens living here. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Archival audio of President Franklin Roosevelt: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We shall give up conveniences and modify the routine of our lives if our country asks us to do so. We will do it cheerfully.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Italian citizens had to register as enemy aliens, and many were subject to an 8 p.m. curfew. They couldn’t travel more than 5 miles away from home. People’s houses were searched for so-called contraband, things like cameras and radios. People who violated the new rules could be arrested.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Archival audio of President Franklin Roosevelt: …\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">remembering that the common enemy seeks to destroy every home and every freedom in every part of our land.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Italians on the West Coast were hit hardest by the new restrictions… The military forced Italian citizens, mostly living on the Pacific coastline, to find new homes. Defense commanders wanted to \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">protect the Western U.S. from an enemy invasion so they\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> created ‘prohibited zones’ where enemy aliens could not live or work… It included a sliver of land along the Pacific Ocean and some inland areas around military bases.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Laura’s father had to relocate. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Laura Gularte\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">: It had a big impact on my father because he was farming rented land that was in the restricted area. So he had to give up his farming. The fact that…he felt that he would not do anything against the United States and still had to be evacuated was hard. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Laura’s family found a new place to rent, ironically, on the other side of town that was not within the prohibited zone. Her mom was born in Argentina, so she was able to travel freely, but her dad was stuck at home. Laura was only seven years old at the time, so she didn’t understand much about the stresses her parents were feeling.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Laura Gularte:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Parents did not discuss a lot of things with their children. I know they were upset because they had to leave their home. But they didn’t talk about it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lawrence DiStasi:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> They thought that Mussolini’s Navy might attack the West Coast. Of course, Mussolini didn’t have much of a Navy.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Author Lawrence DiStasi helped write a book on Italian Americans during World War 2. He says the West Coast General, John DeWitt, used his military powers in a much more draconian way than generals in other parts of the nation. It was DeWitt who commanded the incarceration of tens of thousands of Japanese Americans and the relocation of Italians on the West Coast. On the east coast Italians did have travel restrictions, but they weren’t subject to curfew or mass relocation, says DiStasi. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lawrence DiStasi:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> The paranoia exhibited by the West Coast General, General John DeWitt…he was terrified that under his watch, the West Coast was going to be invaded. It never was, of course. It was partly hysteria, partly overkill.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Because of DeWitt’s relocation orders, Italians all around the Bay Area were in limbo — including thousands in the city of Alameda and Pittsburg. To those who had to move, the dividing line between what was restricted or not seemed pretty arbitrary. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Al Bruzzone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">If you lived west of San Pablo Avenue, you had the move. If you lived east of San Pablo Avenue, you didn’t have to worry about it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Al Bruzzone grew up in Richmond on a 40-acre lettuce farm. He’s 92 now but still remembers being 11 years old when the relocation orders came. It split his family up — he and his two younger siblings moved with his parents to Oakland. But his siblings, who were old enough to live by themselves and American-born, stayed in Richmond and worked the farm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Al Bruzzone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">On weekends, my brother Jim and I, we would go back. My brothers would pick us up, and we’d go back to where I was growing up. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Other Italians didn’t have the money to rent homes nearby after being forced to relocate. Many moved in with friends or lived in substandard migrant housing. Bruzzone thought the whole ordeal was a big government mistake. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Al Bruzzone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Most of the people came to this country because they were poor in Europe and they had a chance to accomplish something here. /// And they would never, never, never go fight against the country because they were doing so well here. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Italians who worked on the coast also suffered.. Eighty percent of California’s fishermen were Italian… and in 1942, their boats were seized by the coast guard. They were not allowed to fish on coastal waters. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Sound of papers rustling\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">That is a story that Ken Borelli knows personally. It happened to his uncle, Girolamo Cantatore. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ken Borelli:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We called him Uncle Jim, but his name was Girolamo. And he lived in San Francisco and was a crab fisherman. And they would fish out of Fisherman’s Wharf and go all up and down northern California. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">After losing access to his vessel and the water during the war, Borelli’s uncle made a wooden replica of the boat. And Borelli still has it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ken Borelli:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> It’s called the Teresa. You can see this back here… he wrote that….\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">He shows me the 2-foot-long model boat, it’s super detailed, there are even lifeboats. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ken Borelli:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> He was a very meticulous person.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Borelli wishes he could have asked his uncle how he felt back then. His family never told him the details about whether his uncle was compensated or saw the boat again. But Borelli says the boat replica shows his uncle had idle hands and a mind that needed to be occupied. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ken Borelli: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">it was a yearning, as a yearning to go back to sea. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Italian Americans didn’t just endure forced relocation and lose property, hundreds more were sent to prison camps too. There, some slept in makeshift shelters like tents and were held with Japanese and German detainees, \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alice Yang: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">A lot of people mistakenly assume that Japanese Americans were the only ones affected by national security fears.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">UC Santa Cruz historian Alice Yang says Italians and Germans living in the US also had their civil liberties infringed upon. People were imprisoned for being Italian journalists, teaching the Italian language or simply being veterans of World War 1.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alice Yang\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">: A lot of the assumptions about, you know, whether someone might be a security threat were based on prejudicial views of ethnicity…People who were part of organizations that were seen as promoting Italian pride. So in the pre-war period, that wasn’t considered dangerous or subversive, but in the wartime era. Right. Having ethnic pride, if your pride was associated with an axis power could land you on one of these lists. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">To be clear, DiStasi says a good portion of Italian immigrants in the US at the time were supporters of Benito Mussolini, the Nazi-allied fascist leader of Italy. They may not have been in favor of what he did, but they liked that he was creating a new image for Italy. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lawrence DiStasi:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> They felt that he had finally put Italy on the map and gained some respect for Italy and throughout the world….But that didn’t mean that they were going to engage in any kind of anti-American activities.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">music of Ezio Pinza\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">High-profile Italian immigrants were prey to the wartime security measures. New York-based opera singer Ezio Pinza was incarcerated without charge for 3 months. Baseball Hall of Famer Joe DiMaggio’s mother, who lived in San Francisco, was arrested. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Imprisoned Italians were moved from camp to camp around the country, many winding up in Fort Missoula Montana. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Then, quite sharply, the American government changed its tune about Italians. In October 1942, Attorney General Francis Biddle gave a speech touting the contributions of Italians in the United States Army. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Voice actor for Attorney General Francis Biddle:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Into the war against the Axis they have sent their own sons. These Americans of Italian ancestry will help Italy again to become a free nation. In each division of the United States Army; nearly five hundred soldiers, on the average, are the sons of Italian immigrants to America.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">By the end of the month, the restrictions on Italian citizens would end. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Voice actor for Attorney General Francis Biddle:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> To those who are affected by this change, ‘I say tonight:’You have met the test. Your loyalty to the democracy which has given you this chance, you have proved and proved well. Make the most of it. See to it that \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">all\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Italians remain loyal. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Italians who were already in U.S. prisons stayed in camps for another year, but the relocated families in California, like Al Bruzzone and Laura Gularte — they got to go home. In total, they’d endured five months of a relocation order and about 8 months of curfews and travel restrictions. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Al Bruzzone:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Somebody finally realized they made a mistake and they sent everybody home because … the parents had to move away and they were drafting all their children. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Laura Gularte says her dad lost his Brussels sprout farm near Santa Cruz. And it was hard to start all over again. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Laura Gularte:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> After they were able to go home, he never did go back to the farm. and he went to work for others in the agricultural industry…As I look back. I think that we were much luckier than the Japanese. Who were encamped and lost everything. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Many Italian immigrants in California were like Laura Gularte’s parents… They didn’t feel a need to talk about hardships imposed on them to their kids or grandkids. But Historian Alice Yang says there are important things to learn from this history. For one, not to judge whether someone’s dangerous based on their ethnicity.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alice Yang: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And that especially when people are afraid. It is very easy for them to have irrational fears of entire groups based on race, religion, ethnicity.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Americans let wartime fears subvert civil rights during World War II, Yang says. And that’s a lesson to learn from — and never repeat. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"During World War II, roughly 10,000 Italian citizens living in California were forced to leave their homes. It was one of many war time security measures meant to protect the West Coast from an enemy invasion that never came. ","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1712706476,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":true,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":118,"wordCount":4647},"headData":{"title":"How Bay Area Italians Were Treated as 'Enemy Aliens' During WWII | KQED","description":"During World War II, roughly 10,000 Italian citizens living in California were forced to leave their homes. It was one of many war time security measures meant to protect the West Coast from an enemy invasion that never came. ","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"How Bay Area Italians Were Treated as 'Enemy Aliens' During WWII","datePublished":"2023-12-14T11:00:36.000Z","dateModified":"2024-04-09T23:47:56.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"Y","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"audioUrl":"https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/pdst.fm/e/chrt.fm/track/G6C7C3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC8253188898.mp3?updated=1702517616","sticky":false,"subhead":"During World War II, roughly 10,000 Italian citizens living in California were forced to leave their homes. It was one of many war time security measures meant to protect the West Coast from an enemy invasion that never came. ","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11969411/how-bay-area-italians-were-treated-as-enemy-aliens-during-wwii","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">View the full episode transcript\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cspan class=\"utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__dropcapShortcode__dropcap\"> D\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\u003cp>uring a casual Christmas celebration with her 90-year-old grandmother last year, Becca Gularte, a self-proclaimed history buff and third-generation Californian, was rocked by a family story she had never heard before. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">In 1942, her grandma Laura Gularte, then an elementary school kid in Santa Cruz, was forced to leave her coastal home because her dad was an Italian citizen. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Becca was taken aback. She peppered Laura with questions.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">‘Why did you have to move across town? What do you mean it was because you were Italians?’” Becca remembers. “We had all heard so much about Japanese internment growing up. We were all just so surprised that this had happened to this whole other population.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Becca’s husband, James King, asked Bay Curious to investigate. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And as we found out, Becca’s great-grandfather was one of roughly 10,000 Italian citizens living in California who were forced to leave their homes during World War II. It was just one of many government measures meant to protect the West Coast from an enemy invasion that never came. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Wartime security\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Within months of the attack on Pearl Harbor in December 1941, as more than 100,000 Japanese Americans were being sent to incarceration camps, other ethnic groups also became the target of new wartime security measures. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003caside class=\"alignleft utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__bayCuriousPodcastShortcode__bayCurious\">\u003cimg src=https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/bayCuriousLogo.png alt=\"Bay Curious Podcast\" />\n \u003ca href=\"/news/series/baycurious\">Bay Curious\u003c/a> is a podcast that answers your questions about the Bay Area.\n Subscribe on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/bay-curious/id1172473406\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Apple Podcasts\u003c/a>,\n \u003ca href=\"http://www.npr.org/podcasts/500557090/bay-curious\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">NPR One\u003c/a> or your favorite podcast platform.\u003c/aside>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Italian citizens living near California’s coastline and military sites — some 10,000 of them — were forced to leave their homes and find somewhere else to live.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Laura Gularte’s father, Quinto Neri, was one of them. Neri left Tuscany in Northern Italy in 1911, eventually settling in Santa Cruz, California. He bought land on the coast and became a Brussels sprout farmer.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Laura was just 7 years old when her family had to move from their coastal home in Santa Cruz to just across town, which was outside of an area prohibited by the U.S. military. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">“It had a big impact on my father because he was farming rented land that was in the restricted area. So he had to give up his farming,” Laura Gularte remembers. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11969477\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1920px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11969477\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/Gulartes_cropped.jpg\" alt=\"An elderly woman poses with six adult grandchildren at her 90th birthday party. \" width=\"1920\" height=\"1231\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/Gulartes_cropped.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/Gulartes_cropped-800x513.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/Gulartes_cropped-1020x654.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/Gulartes_cropped-160x103.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/Gulartes_cropped-1536x985.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Laura Gularte, middle, at her 90th birthday party with all of her grandchildren. Bay Curious question-asker Becca Gularte is on the far left. \u003ccite>(Courtesy photo)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">After Italy and Germany declared war on the United States, President Franklin Roosevelt gave military commanders and other officials sweeping rights to protect the homeland. These new powers led to the mass incarceration of Japanese Americans as well as a slew of new rules on Italian and German citizens living in the U.S.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">“\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">This war is a new kind of war,” Roosevelt says in a February 1942 speech. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">“\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We shall give up conveniences and modify the routine of our lives if our country asks us to do so. We will do it cheerfully.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Italian citizens had to register as enemy aliens, and many were subject to an 8 p.m. curfew. They couldn’t travel more than 5 miles away from home. People’s houses were searched for “contraband,” including cameras and radios. So-called enemy aliens could be arrested if they violated the new rules.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But the new security measures were applied differently across the United States, and General John DeWitt, who oversaw security for the West Coast, was much more draconian than his counterparts elsewhere. On the East Coast, for example, Italian citizens had travel restrictions, but they weren’t subject to curfew or the mass relocation ordered by General DeWitt, historians say.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">“\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[DeWitt] was terrified that under his watch, the West Coast was going to be invaded,” says Lawrence DiStasi, author and editor of \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.heydaybooks.com/catalog/una-storia-segreta-the-secret-history-of-italian-american-evacuation-and-internment-during-world-war-ii/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cem>Una Storia Segreta: The Secret History of Italian American Evacuation and Internment during World War II\u003c/em>\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">DiStasi says “paranoia” led General DeWitt to evict Italians from large swaths of the Pacific coast to avoid an enemy invasion. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">“It was partly hysteria, partly overkill, I think.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Bay Area Italians in limbo\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Millions of Italians came to the U.S. for a better life before World War II, many landing in urban centers like New York City. But others ventured to California, becoming fishermen, farmworkers and helping to grow the wine industry. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Italians all around the San Francisco Bay Area were living in the newly declared prohibited zones, including thousands in the cities of Alameda, Richmond and Pittsburg. At least 1,500 Italians were relocated out of Pittsburg because of their proximity to a military site, says Vince Ferrante, president of the Pittsburg Italian American Club and historian for the Pittsburg Historical Society. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">“Some families lost their businesses, lost their livelihoods,” he says. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">To those who had to move, like Al Bruzzone, 92, in Richmond, the dividing line between what was restricted or not seemed pretty arbitrary. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11969474\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1920px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11969474\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/Bruzzone.jpg\" alt=\"An elderly man sitting outside. \" width=\"1920\" height=\"1440\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/Bruzzone.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/Bruzzone-800x600.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/Bruzzone-1020x765.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/Bruzzone-160x120.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/Bruzzone-1536x1152.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Al Bruzzone, 92, grew up in the East Bay city of Richmond and still lives there. When his parents were forced to relocate during World War II, he temporarily stayed in an Oakland apartment with his parents. \u003ccite>(Pauline Bartolone/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">“If you lived west of San Pablo Avenue, you had the move. If you lived east of San Pablo Avenue, you didn’t have to worry about it,” he says.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Bruzzone grew up on his family’s 40-acre lettuce farm in Richmond. He still remembers being 11 years old when the relocation orders came. It split his family up — he and his two younger siblings moved with his parents to a rented apartment in Oakland. But his siblings who were old enough to live by themselves, and American-born, stayed in Richmond and worked the farm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">“On weekends, my brother Jim and I, we would go back. My brothers would pick us up, and we’d go back to where I was growing up,” remembers Bruzzone. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Other Italians who didn’t have the money to rent homes when they were relocated moved in with friends or lived in substandard migrant housing. Bruzzone thought the whole ordeal was a big government mistake. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">“Most of the people came to this country because they were poor in Europe and they had a chance to accomplish something here,” he says. “They would never, never, never go fight against the country because they were doing so well here.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Italian fisherman\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">At the onset of the war, 80% of California’s fishermen were Italian. In 1942, their boats were seized by the U.S. Coast Guard, as the late historian Rose Scherini recounts in her chapter of “Una Storia Segreta.” Italian citizens were not allowed to fish on coastal waters. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">That affected Italians working on San Francisco’s Fisherman’s Wharf, like Ken Borelli’s uncle Girolamo Cantatore. He lived in San Francisco and was a crab fisherman embarking off the now-famous tourist area. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">When Cantatore lost his vessel and his ability to fish during the war, he made a wooden replica of the boat, and his nephew, Borelli, still had it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11969451\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1920px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11969451\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/Borelli.jpg\" alt=\"A man looks at a model boat on a kitchen table.\" width=\"1920\" height=\"1440\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/Borelli.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/Borelli-800x600.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/Borelli-1020x765.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/Borelli-160x120.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/Borelli-1536x1152.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Ken Borelli and the model boat his uncle Girolamo Cantatore made after the crab fishing boat he used was seized by US forces. \u003ccite>(Pauline Bartolone/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">“He was a very meticulous person,” Borelli says as he looks at the model boat, which is about two feet wide and is detailed with several deck levels and miniature lifeboats. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Borelli says he doesn’t know whether his uncle was ever compensated or saw his boat again (although according to Scherini, fishermen were given monthly compensation for their seized boats).\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But the boat replica shows his uncle had idle hands and “a yearning to go back to sea,” Borelli says.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Italians in prison camps\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Italian Americans didn’t just endure forced relocation, hundreds more were sent to prison camps too. As many as 300–400 Italians were incarcerated, DiStasi says. They were moved around from camp to camp around the country until they ultimately wound up in Fort Missoula, Montana. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">“A lot of people mistakenly assume that Japanese Americans were the only ones affected by national security fears,” says UC Santa Cruz historian Alice Yang, adding that Italians and Germans also had their civil liberties infringed upon. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">People were imprisoned for being journalists at Italian radio stations and newspapers, teaching the Italian language or simply being veterans of World War I. These activities were seen as promoting Italian pride, Yang says, and in the wartime era, that was considered subversive.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">“A lot of the assumptions about whether someone might be a security threat were based on prejudicial views of ethnicity,” Yang says. “Having ethnic pride, if your pride was associated with an axis power, could land you on one of these lists.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">To be clear, DiStasi says a good portion of Italian immigrants in the U.S. at the time \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">were\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> supporters of Benito Mussolini, the Nazi-allied fascist leader of Italy. They may not have been in favor of what he did, DiStasi says, but they liked that he was creating a new image for Italy. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">“They felt that he had finally put Italy on the map and gained some respect for Italy and throughout the world,” DiStasi says. “But that didn’t mean that they were going to engage in any kind of anti-American activities.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Being “high profile” didn’t exempt Italian citizens from wartime security measures. New York-based opera singer \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.italianhistorical.org/internment.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Ezio Pinza\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> was incarcerated without charge for three months, according to Yang. And baseball Hall of Famer Joe DiMaggio’s mother, who lived in San Francisco, \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/proclamation-2527-internment-italian-americans\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">was arrested\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>‘You have met the test’\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Then, in October 1942, quite sharply, the American government changed its tune about Italians. \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/ag/legacy/2011/09/16/10-12-1942.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Attorney General Francis Biddle gave a speech at Carnegie Hall in New York City\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">,\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> applauding the high number of Italian Americans currently serving in the U.S. military.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">“Into the war against the Axis, they have sent their own sons,” Biddle proclaimed. “These Americans of Italian ancestry will help Italy again to become a free nation.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">By the end of the month Biddle says, the restrictions on Italian citizens would end. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">“I say tonight: You have met the test. Your loyalty to the democracy which has given you this chance, you have proved and proved well. Make the most of it. See to it that all Italians remain loyal.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The Italians who were imprisoned stayed in camps until 1943, but the relocated Italian Americans in California, like Al Bruzzone and Laura Gularte, got to go home. In total, they’d endured five months of a relocation order and about eight months of curfews and travel restrictions. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">“Somebody finally realized they made a mistake,” Bruzzone says, pointing out the irony of Italian citizens in California being forced to move away from their homes while their children were being drafted to fight in the war. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Laura Gularte, who now lives in Salinas, says it was hard for her dad to restart his Brussels sprouts farm after restrictions were lifted, so he went to work for others in the agricultural industry. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">She says her parents didn’t discuss their hardships with her, but she knows it was difficult for her father. At the same time, she says, “We were much luckier than the Japanese, who were encamped and lost everything.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Ferrante, of Pittsburg, says many elders in the Italian American community didn’t pass these stories down, and that’s why second and third-generation families don’t know much about this history. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">“There’s a stigma attached to it,” explained Ferrante, whose great-grandmother was relocated during World War II. The sentiment among them was, “‘We’re tax-paying citizens, we’re productive in our community, we work here, so what happened, what did we do wrong?’” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But Historian Alice Yang says there are important reasons to remember this history. For the government: Not to use ethnicity to determine who is dangerous and not to let wartime fears subvert civil rights. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Now that she knows more about what her great-grandfather went through, our question-asker, Becca Gularte, says, “It makes you realize … it’s a hard thing to be an immigrant.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This story has been updated to reflect the fact that war time restrictions on Italians were issued through more than one government proclamation, not just Executive Order 9066.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"baycuriousquestion","attributes":{"named":{"label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Around the holidays, family stories sometimes surface at the dinner table. Remember Grandma Joyce? She rode a motorcycle. Or Great Gran-Daddy Willie? He scrimped and saved long after the Depression was over.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Then there are tales like Becca Gularte recently heard from her grandma … about how her family was forced from their California home during World War 2. She hadn’t heard that one before. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Becca Gularte:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> It was, it was sort of with that, wait, why did you have to move across town kind of thing? And then she said, Oh, it was because we were Italians. And then we kept prompting her with questions to say, What do you mean It was because you were Italians?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> In the early 1940s, as more than 100,000 Japanese Americans were being sent to incarceration camps, other ethnic groups were also being targeted. Italian citizens living in California — some 10,000 of them — were forced to relocate.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Becca Gularte: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We had all heard so much about Japanese internment growing up and and just really that being sort of the story, especially in California. And I think we were all just so surprised that this had happened to this whole other population of people. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Becca and her husband wanted to know more, so they wrote to Bay Curious to find out how this bit of family history fits into California textbooks. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Becca Gularte:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> What types of restrictions like this were placed on Italian Americans during World War Two and why don’t more people know about it? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Today on Bay Curious, we’re doing a deep dive into what Italians experienced in California during World War II and how it was different here from the rest of the country. I’m Olivia Allen-Price. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Producer Pauline Bartolone picks up the story from here. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> To start investigating this question about how Italians were treated in California during World War two, we went straight to the source. Grandma… Our question-asker Becca Gularte’s grandma that is. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Laura Gularte:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> My name is Laura Neri Gularte. I’m 90 years old. I was born and grew up in Santa Cruz, California.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Laura Gularte now lives in Salinas. It was her father, Quinto Neri, who came to California in 1911 from Tuscany in Northern Italy. He was one of millions of Italians who came to the U.S. for a better life. Many stayed in urban centers like New York City, but others ventured farther to California, becoming fishermen, working in agriculture and the wine industry. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Laura Gularte:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> He came at age 17 because they were starving. It was a large family. And he knew some people in San Francisco who sponsored him. And so he went to work in Half Moon Bay.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Laura’s dad farmed Brussels sprouts and built a life for himself. He bought some land and a house. But then … the second World War hit and Italy declared war on the United States. Suddenly, Laura’s dad went from starting to achieve a middle-class life to being labeled ‘enemy alien.’\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Archival audio of President Franklin Roosevelt: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">This war is a new kind of war. It is different from all other wars of the past…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The President of the United States at the time, Franklin Roosevelt gave military commanders sweeping rights to protect the homeland after the 1941 attack on Pearl Harbor. That’s what led to the mass incarceration of Japanese Americans. But since Italy and Germany had also declared war on the US, new restrictions applied to their citizens living here. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Archival audio of President Franklin Roosevelt: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We shall give up conveniences and modify the routine of our lives if our country asks us to do so. We will do it cheerfully.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Italian citizens had to register as enemy aliens, and many were subject to an 8 p.m. curfew. They couldn’t travel more than 5 miles away from home. People’s houses were searched for so-called contraband, things like cameras and radios. People who violated the new rules could be arrested.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Archival audio of President Franklin Roosevelt: …\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">remembering that the common enemy seeks to destroy every home and every freedom in every part of our land.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Italians on the West Coast were hit hardest by the new restrictions… The military forced Italian citizens, mostly living on the Pacific coastline, to find new homes. Defense commanders wanted to \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">protect the Western U.S. from an enemy invasion so they\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> created ‘prohibited zones’ where enemy aliens could not live or work… It included a sliver of land along the Pacific Ocean and some inland areas around military bases.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Laura’s father had to relocate. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Laura Gularte\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">: It had a big impact on my father because he was farming rented land that was in the restricted area. So he had to give up his farming. The fact that…he felt that he would not do anything against the United States and still had to be evacuated was hard. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Laura’s family found a new place to rent, ironically, on the other side of town that was not within the prohibited zone. Her mom was born in Argentina, so she was able to travel freely, but her dad was stuck at home. Laura was only seven years old at the time, so she didn’t understand much about the stresses her parents were feeling.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Laura Gularte:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Parents did not discuss a lot of things with their children. I know they were upset because they had to leave their home. But they didn’t talk about it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lawrence DiStasi:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> They thought that Mussolini’s Navy might attack the West Coast. Of course, Mussolini didn’t have much of a Navy.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Author Lawrence DiStasi helped write a book on Italian Americans during World War 2. He says the West Coast General, John DeWitt, used his military powers in a much more draconian way than generals in other parts of the nation. It was DeWitt who commanded the incarceration of tens of thousands of Japanese Americans and the relocation of Italians on the West Coast. On the east coast Italians did have travel restrictions, but they weren’t subject to curfew or mass relocation, says DiStasi. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lawrence DiStasi:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> The paranoia exhibited by the West Coast General, General John DeWitt…he was terrified that under his watch, the West Coast was going to be invaded. It never was, of course. It was partly hysteria, partly overkill.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Because of DeWitt’s relocation orders, Italians all around the Bay Area were in limbo — including thousands in the city of Alameda and Pittsburg. To those who had to move, the dividing line between what was restricted or not seemed pretty arbitrary. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Al Bruzzone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">If you lived west of San Pablo Avenue, you had the move. If you lived east of San Pablo Avenue, you didn’t have to worry about it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Al Bruzzone grew up in Richmond on a 40-acre lettuce farm. He’s 92 now but still remembers being 11 years old when the relocation orders came. It split his family up — he and his two younger siblings moved with his parents to Oakland. But his siblings, who were old enough to live by themselves and American-born, stayed in Richmond and worked the farm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Al Bruzzone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">On weekends, my brother Jim and I, we would go back. My brothers would pick us up, and we’d go back to where I was growing up. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Other Italians didn’t have the money to rent homes nearby after being forced to relocate. Many moved in with friends or lived in substandard migrant housing. Bruzzone thought the whole ordeal was a big government mistake. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Al Bruzzone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Most of the people came to this country because they were poor in Europe and they had a chance to accomplish something here. /// And they would never, never, never go fight against the country because they were doing so well here. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Italians who worked on the coast also suffered.. Eighty percent of California’s fishermen were Italian… and in 1942, their boats were seized by the coast guard. They were not allowed to fish on coastal waters. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Sound of papers rustling\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">That is a story that Ken Borelli knows personally. It happened to his uncle, Girolamo Cantatore. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ken Borelli:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We called him Uncle Jim, but his name was Girolamo. And he lived in San Francisco and was a crab fisherman. And they would fish out of Fisherman’s Wharf and go all up and down northern California. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">After losing access to his vessel and the water during the war, Borelli’s uncle made a wooden replica of the boat. And Borelli still has it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ken Borelli:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> It’s called the Teresa. You can see this back here… he wrote that….\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">He shows me the 2-foot-long model boat, it’s super detailed, there are even lifeboats. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ken Borelli:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> He was a very meticulous person.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Borelli wishes he could have asked his uncle how he felt back then. His family never told him the details about whether his uncle was compensated or saw the boat again. But Borelli says the boat replica shows his uncle had idle hands and a mind that needed to be occupied. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ken Borelli: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">it was a yearning, as a yearning to go back to sea. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Italian Americans didn’t just endure forced relocation and lose property, hundreds more were sent to prison camps too. There, some slept in makeshift shelters like tents and were held with Japanese and German detainees, \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alice Yang: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">A lot of people mistakenly assume that Japanese Americans were the only ones affected by national security fears.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">UC Santa Cruz historian Alice Yang says Italians and Germans living in the US also had their civil liberties infringed upon. People were imprisoned for being Italian journalists, teaching the Italian language or simply being veterans of World War 1.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alice Yang\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">: A lot of the assumptions about, you know, whether someone might be a security threat were based on prejudicial views of ethnicity…People who were part of organizations that were seen as promoting Italian pride. So in the pre-war period, that wasn’t considered dangerous or subversive, but in the wartime era. Right. Having ethnic pride, if your pride was associated with an axis power could land you on one of these lists. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">To be clear, DiStasi says a good portion of Italian immigrants in the US at the time were supporters of Benito Mussolini, the Nazi-allied fascist leader of Italy. They may not have been in favor of what he did, but they liked that he was creating a new image for Italy. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lawrence DiStasi:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> They felt that he had finally put Italy on the map and gained some respect for Italy and throughout the world….But that didn’t mean that they were going to engage in any kind of anti-American activities.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">music of Ezio Pinza\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">High-profile Italian immigrants were prey to the wartime security measures. New York-based opera singer Ezio Pinza was incarcerated without charge for 3 months. Baseball Hall of Famer Joe DiMaggio’s mother, who lived in San Francisco, was arrested. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Imprisoned Italians were moved from camp to camp around the country, many winding up in Fort Missoula Montana. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Then, quite sharply, the American government changed its tune about Italians. In October 1942, Attorney General Francis Biddle gave a speech touting the contributions of Italians in the United States Army. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Voice actor for Attorney General Francis Biddle:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Into the war against the Axis they have sent their own sons. These Americans of Italian ancestry will help Italy again to become a free nation. In each division of the United States Army; nearly five hundred soldiers, on the average, are the sons of Italian immigrants to America.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">By the end of the month, the restrictions on Italian citizens would end. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Voice actor for Attorney General Francis Biddle:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> To those who are affected by this change, ‘I say tonight:’You have met the test. Your loyalty to the democracy which has given you this chance, you have proved and proved well. Make the most of it. See to it that \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">all\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Italians remain loyal. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Italians who were already in U.S. prisons stayed in camps for another year, but the relocated families in California, like Al Bruzzone and Laura Gularte — they got to go home. In total, they’d endured five months of a relocation order and about 8 months of curfews and travel restrictions. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Al Bruzzone:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Somebody finally realized they made a mistake and they sent everybody home because … the parents had to move away and they were drafting all their children. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Laura Gularte says her dad lost his Brussels sprout farm near Santa Cruz. And it was hard to start all over again. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Laura Gularte:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> After they were able to go home, he never did go back to the farm. and he went to work for others in the agricultural industry…As I look back. I think that we were much luckier than the Japanese. Who were encamped and lost everything. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Many Italian immigrants in California were like Laura Gularte’s parents… They didn’t feel a need to talk about hardships imposed on them to their kids or grandkids. But Historian Alice Yang says there are important things to learn from this history. For one, not to judge whether someone’s dangerous based on their ethnicity.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alice Yang: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And that especially when people are afraid. It is very easy for them to have irrational fears of entire groups based on race, religion, ethnicity.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pauline Bartolone:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Americans let wartime fears subvert civil rights during World War II, Yang says. And that’s a lesson to learn from — and never repeat. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11969411/how-bay-area-italians-were-treated-as-enemy-aliens-during-wwii","authors":["11879"],"programs":["news_33523"],"series":["news_17986"],"categories":["news_1169","news_8"],"tags":["news_3631","news_20397","news_22579","news_22580","news_236"],"featImg":"news_11969433","label":"news_33523"},"news_11969212":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11969212","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11969212","score":null,"sort":[1701946892000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"how-san-franciscos-anchor-brewing-started-the-craft-beer-craze","title":"How San Francisco’s Anchor Brewing Started the Craft Beer Craze","publishDate":1701946892,"format":"standard","headTitle":"How San Francisco’s Anchor Brewing Started the Craft Beer Craze | KQED","labelTerm":{"term":33523,"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cbr>\nThe craft beer market has been booming the last few decades. Last year the number of craft breweries in the U.S. reached an all time high of 9,552. And California is a paradise for craft beer lovers like Bay Curious listener Ricky Tjandra – the state is home to over 950 such brew operations.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When Ricky, who lives in Hayward, first started drinking beer in the early 2000s, he’d buy the basics: Coors, Budweiser, and the like. Then he and his friends started exploring the many different styles that Bay Area breweries were offering.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[baycuriouspodcastinfo]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We started seeing other beers that weren’t in the supermarket out in bars,” said Ricky. “It got me interested.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Now, as a craft beer aficionado, Ricky asked Bay Curious to investigate the local lore that this nationwide beer trend got its start in the Bay Area.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I heard that the Bay Area is one of the first places to produce craft beer before craft beer even became a thing,” he said, “Is that true?”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>What’s in a name?\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>First, you might be wondering what the difference is between a ‘craft’ beer and just any beer.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The official definition is set by the Brewers Association, a national industry trade group for craft brewers. It says the “craft” in brewing comes down to an operation’s ownership and output. A craft brewery can’t be more than 25% owned by a company or investor that is not also a craft brewery. And the annual output of the brewery can’t be more than six million barrels of bee r– a considerable amount. A barrel is 31 gallons of beer, and six million of them is enough to fill 380 Olympic sized swimming pools.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There’s another, less official standard for what defines a craft beer; one that’s more about quality and character. How is it made? What kind of creative process did the brewer go through when developing it? Does it utilize new, perhaps experimental ingredients or flavors?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Retired Anchor Brewing Historian, Dave Burkhart, has his own definition:\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“A craft beer is a distinctive, aesthetically pleasing alcoholic beverage made from malted grain whose taste, aroma, quality and consistency reflect the skill, integrity and creative imagination of its brewer.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Dave is the author of The Anchor Brewing Story, which tells the complete history of the Anchor Brewing Company — where he worked for 31 years — from the Gold Rush all the way to the present day. Dave began working at the brewery in 1991, and over the years did a number of jobs, including acting as tour guide and helping to design many of Anchor’s beautiful labels.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Anchor Brewing has been in the news this year, because after 127 years of brewing beer in San Francisco, the institution shut its doors at the end of July. Prior to its closure, Anchor Brewing had been purchased by Japanese brewer, Sapporo, in 2017. Former union workers of the Bay Area brewery hope to raise money to buy it back, but no deals have so far been made and the building currently sits empty.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11969214\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11969214\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/230714-AnchorBrewing-22-BL-qut-800x533.jpg\" alt=\"Two people talk as they look through boxes of Anchor merchandise in a warehouse-type space.\" width=\"800\" height=\"533\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/230714-AnchorBrewing-22-BL-qut-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/230714-AnchorBrewing-22-BL-qut-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/230714-AnchorBrewing-22-BL-qut-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/230714-AnchorBrewing-22-BL-qut-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/230714-AnchorBrewing-22-BL-qut.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Shari Walker and Marshall Stine gathered Anchor beer and merchandise in the final days before it closed. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Innovation at Anchor Brewing is widely considered to be the catalyst to the modern craft beer movement. So the short answer to Ricky’s question is: Yes, American craft beer really did take off in San Francisco. But it took quite a while to get there.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Steamy beginnings\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>During the Gold Rush thirsty miners created a huge demand for beer. So beer making operations were popping up all over the place. The brewery that would become Anchor Brewing was first opened as Golden City Brewery in 1871 on Pacific Avenue, between Larkin and Hyde in Nob Hill. In 1896, that location was purchased by Ernst Baruth and his son-in-law, Otto Schenkel Jr., who changed the name to Anchor Brewing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As part of the deal, new owners Baruth and Schenkel also got the recipe to the only beer that the brewery had been making. This beer would come to be known as Anchor Steam, and it’s the style that would keep the company afloat for decades to come.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>What is a “steam” beer?\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>The term “steam beer” is now trademarked by Anchor Brewing, but a similar style of beer can be found under the name California Common.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Dave says there’s no one clear answer where the name comes from, but there are a few potential origins for the term. The most popular theory relates to its Gold Rush-era method of manufacture.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The first steps of beer making require steeping the malt in heating water, removing it, then boiling that mixture. The wort, as it’s called at that point, then needs to be cooled down before the yeast is added. Yeast is a living organism and if it gets too hot, it will die. The cooling process needs to happen fairly quickly to prevent bacteria from growing in the mixture.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Back when beer was being brewed in San Francisco in the 19th century, refrigeration was not available, and this process was a lot harder.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“So what they did was, they pumped it up to the rooftop of the brewery, which was enclosed on all four sides by Louvered windows and had a slanted roof, so condensation wouldn’t drip right back into the beer,” said Dave.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Here’s where the “steam” came in: The hot mixture, not alcoholic yet, would sit in large shallow pans while the cold San Francisco air flowed around them, creating a cloud of steam that drifted out from the windows on the roof.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Somebody said, ‘Well, boy, they must be making steam beer up there,’” said Dave, about how the name may have been coined.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For a very long time, that was the only kind of beer Anchor Brewing made.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Then along came Fritz\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>By 1965, after changing hands several times, and relocating to the corner of De Haro and Mariposa Streets in Potrero Hill, Anchor Brewing was in a bad financial situation. At the time, the company was run by a man named Lawrence Steese who, despite his best efforts, was having difficulty maintaining the quality of the beer.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Much of the equipment was very old. In fact, the brewery did not have refrigeration and still used the same 1890s-era rooftop cooling method. Sanitation issues meant that bacteria growth sometimes ruined the beer. Local bartenders were reporting that kegs arrived spoiled. The company was on the verge of bankruptcy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Then came Fritz Maytag.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Maytag name may be familiar. Fritz’s grandfather founded the Maytag Corporation, the household appliance manufacturer best known for their washing machines. Fritz’s father also founded Maytag Dairy Farms, known for making a distinctive blue cheese.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In 1965, Fritz Maytag was a 28-year-old entrepreneur who’d attended Stanford University and lived in San Francisco. When he heard from a local bartender that a legacy business like Anchor Brewing was about to close, he decided to help. He bought a 51% stake in the company for $5,100 (just under $50K in today’s money) and loaned his co-owner additional cash to keep the business afloat.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[emailsignup newslettername=\"baycurious\" align=\"right\"]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At the time, Fritz had no beer making know-how. He kept Lawrence Steese on for the first several years as brewmaster while he learned the trade and converted what he termed ‘America’s most medieval brewery’ into a modern marvel. Fritz switched to cooling the brew with refrigeration, and improved sanitation with stainless steel fermentation tanks.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“He saw it as a challenge,” said Dave, who counts Fritz Maytag as a close friend.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Eventually in 1969, he bought out Steese and and ended up being 100% owner, although it took him ten years to turn a profit at the brewery,” he added.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11969215\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11969215\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/GettyImages-1298609915-800x474.jpg\" alt=\"A black and white photo of a white bearded man wearing a white button down and a tie. He is seated in front of beer paraphernalia. \" width=\"800\" height=\"474\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/GettyImages-1298609915-800x474.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/GettyImages-1298609915-1020x605.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/GettyImages-1298609915-160x95.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/GettyImages-1298609915-1536x910.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/GettyImages-1298609915-2048x1214.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/GettyImages-1298609915-1920x1138.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Fritz Maytag of Anchor Brewing in 1978. \u003ccite>(Photo by Gary Fong/San Francisco Chronicle via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>In 1971, Anchor began bottling their Steam beer, which had previously only been available locally and on tap. That same year they introduced their first new beer – Anchor Porter. In 1975 they introduced three more: Liberty Ale, Old Foghorn Barleywine and the seasonal Anchor Christmas Ale. Soon all five beers were being bottled.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>None of these beer styles were brand new – variations of them have been brewed in Europe for hundreds of years. But Dave says they were novel in the American commercial beer market at the time, which consisted mainly of watered down versions of lager.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Sad to say, virtually all of the beer in America, as anybody who was drinking beer back then will tell you, was all fizzy, light, yellow, bubbly, bland, tasteless, characterless,” Dave said, “And that was one of the beauties of what Fritz was doing. It was what he called a radically traditional idea. It was radical to make a traditional beer in those days.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>With the availability of bottled Anchor beer being sold to a wider market, people started to take notice of their robust and creative brews, and their renewed success. Soon, visitors were flocking to the brewery to see how it was done. something that Fritz Maytag welcomed. Dave says Fritz was happy to give anyone a tour, and promote the idea that would come to be known as craft brewing.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>A legacy of creativity and openness\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>From there the craft beer industry began to blossom as inspired homebrewers in California, and nationwide made their beers commercial.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“A couple of those guys were Ken Grossman and Paul Camusi from what became Sierra Nevada Brewing Company. Jack McAuliffe of New Albion came to the brewery,” said Dave.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The short lived New Albion Brewing Company opened in 1978, and was the first modern microbrewery to open in the U.S. since prohibition. Though New Albion closed in 1982, many other breweries inspired by Anchor have survived and thrived.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Two of the marvelous success stories in California beer that were both inspired by Anchor are Sierra Nevada and Russian River,” said Dave. (full disclosure: Sierra Nevada Brewing is a sponsor of Bay Curious)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Russian River makes the very popular Pliny the Elder imperial IPA. They’re known for their hoppy beers, and Vinnie Cilurzo, who runs the brewery with his wife Natalie in Windsor, California, is actually credited with inventing the beer style known as a double IPA while running his first brewery, Blind Pig.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Vinnie cites Anchor Brewing and Sierra Nevada as being early inspirations for the hop-forward beers that are the hallmark of his brewery.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Anchor Liberty and Sierra Nevada Pale Ale were two, like, formidable beers that … still are in my DNA,” said Vinnie.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A sense of camaraderie and respect seems to exist among the craft brewing industry. Vinnie Cilurzo mentioned how proud he was to have a sign from the original New Albion brewery hanging in his brewpub pub in Santa Rosa, and that Stone Brewing had credited him by name on their bottles when they released their version of a double IPA.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Historian Dave Burkhart told me that following the closure of Anchor Brewing, all current and former staff were invited to a party in Petaluma by the employees of Lagunitas Brewing Company to celebrate the life of the company.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It could be that along with a philosophy of creative experimentation, Fritz Maytag’s ‘open source’ style of welcoming brewers to Anchor also set a standard— where rather than cutthroat competition, brewers cheer on each other’s creations, because each is doing something unique.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[baycuriousquestion]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"><h2 id=”episode-transcript”>Episode Transcript</h2>\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Beer…Humans love it, Americans love it, Californians love it. Whether you’r\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">e cracking open a cold one at Dolores Park, clinking pint glasses with your buds at a local brewery, or paying way too much for refreshments at a Giants game… When there’\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">s good times to be had, many Californians choose: BEER. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font speaking fast, mimicking a beer commercial: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Side effects of beer may include thinking you’re stronger than you really are, excessive burping, and ordering nachos. Please drink responsibly, and only if you’re 21 or over. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Hey everyone. This is Bay Curious, the show that answers your questions about the San Francisco Bay Area. I’m Olivia Allen-Price. And I want to kick off this week’s episode by playing you one of my favorite sounds …\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">beer pouring sound\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">That’s a fresh pint of beer being poured. That kinda dampened foamy sound is just … mm! … so good. Especially when you hear it in one of the Bay Area’s many fine drinking establishments.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ricky Tjandra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">There’s this place called Buffalo Bill’s in Hayward, and I’ve been going there since a little after college, like 2000. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Bay Curious listener Ricky Tjandra enjoys having a pint with friends. In particular, he enjoys local craft beers. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ricky Tjandra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">At first I liked the IPAs and they started to be a little too heavy for me. So now I’ve been in more into Pilsners and Kölsch, and yeah, I think Kölsch has been my go to beer lately. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Ricky says when he first started enjoying beer in the early 2000s, he’d drink the basics.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ricky Tjandra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Like Budweiser, Coors Light. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But then some of his friends started brewing their own beer, and getting more curious about different styles. And as their tastes changed, they began trying the wide variety of brews sold in markets around the Bay Area that were produced here– Something that at the time, he hadn’t really seen outside of California. Now, as a craft beer aficionado, he wonders.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">theme music \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ricky Tjandra:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> So I heard that the Bay Area is one of the first places to produce craft beer before craft beer even became a thing. Is that true? And if so, how did it start? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">This week on Bay Curious … we explore how the Bay Area became the epicenter for the modern craft beer explosion. And we’ll go inside a successful brewery. That’s all just ahead. Stick around.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Sponsor break\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We’ve got producer Amanda Font here today to answer Ricky’s question about how craft beer got its start. But first, Amanda, what exactly makes something a “craft beer” versus just a regular beer?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Well, there’s sort of two answers. First there’s the official industry definition. According to the Brewers Association, which is a trade group for craft brewers, it comes down to ownership and output. Your brewery can’t be more than 25% owned or controlled by a company that is NOT a craft brewery. And your annual output must be less than 6 million barrels of beer. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> OK. Can you give us some context. How much, really, is 6 million barrels? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">A barrel is 31 gallons. So 6 million of them could fill 380 Olympic sized swimming pools. Which is a LOT. For perspective, Bay Curious sponsor Sierra Nevada is one of the largest craft breweries, with a nationwide distribution, and their annual output is only about 1.2 million barrels. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> So what’s the other thing? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The second sort of signifier of a craft brewer isn’t official, it’s more about the characteristics of the beer itself. How is it made? What kind of creative process did the brewer go through when developing it? Does it utilize new, maybe experimental ingredients or flavors? Like you kind of know a craft beer when you taste it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah, totally. I am a lot like our question asker Ricky. In my twenties I drank a lot of Bud Light, PBR, Natty Boh (shoutout Baltimore). All kinds of light lagers that taste pretty similar. The first time I had a craft brew, it blew my mind. So much flavor! Now I’m always on the lookout for new brews to try and we have so many options here.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Definitely! California has more craft breweries than any other state – around 957. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So… to answer Ricky’s question… Is it true that that idea of ‘craft brewing’ started in the Bay Area? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">It is true! It’s widely accepted that modern American craft brewing started right here in San Francisco at Anchor Brewing. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dave Burkhart:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> We had people coming to the brewery from all over the world, from all kinds of backgrounds. Just beer lovers, beer aficionados, brewers, people that were interested in starting a brewery, whether they were entrepreneurs or home brewers. It was absolutely just abuzz,\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I talked to Dave Burkhart.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dave Burkhart:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> My title is Anchor Brewery historian Emeritus, which has nothing to do with merit and simply means that I retired.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Dave worked at Anchor Brewing for 31 years starting in 1991. He did a lot of different jobs. Everything from being on the design team for their beautiful labels, to doing lab work and being a tour guide. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dave Burkhart:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Tour guide was a great job and everybody did it because it was a great way to learn about the brewery. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">While working as a tour guide people would ask him history questions that he didn’t know the answers to, so he’d ask other people in the company and they also weren’t sure. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dave Burkhart: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Here I was working at a San Francisco institution that had been around forever, and nobody really knew all that much about the history. So I began delving into it on my own. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The result is his book, The Anchor Brewing Story.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dave Burkhart:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">…which tells the Complete History of Anchor Brewing Company from the Gold Rush all the way to the present day. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Now, you may have seen Anchor Brewing in the news this year because after 127 years of brewing beer in San Francisco, the company ceased operations and shut its doors at the end of July. It’s not necessarily gone forever…there are efforts underway to raise money to help the former union workers at Anchor buy the brewery and reopen it. But currently the property is for sale for $40 million dollars. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">What is for certain, is that Anchor’s influence as the center of the modern craft beer movement can’t be underestimated. But it took a long time to get there. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The story starts just after the gold rush. The brewery that would become Anchor was first opened as Golden City Brewery in 1871 on Pacific Avenue, between Larkin and Hyde in Nob Hill. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dave Burkhart: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">In 1896, Ernst Baruth and his son in law, Otto Schenkel Jr, bought the brewery and changed the name to Anchor. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">1896 is what Anchor claims as their official establishment year. As part of the deal, the new owners also got the recipe for one and only beer that the brewery had been making– what would come to be known as Anchor Steam– the iconic beer that kept this business open for many decades to come… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dave Burkhart:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> The question that I’ve probably been asked more times than any in 31 and a half years that I worked at the brewery was why is it called steam beer? And I’d like to say that there’s one answer and there’s one easy answer. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">There are a few potential reasons, but Here’s what is probably the most popular theory behind the name… During the Goldrush there were a lot of thirsty miners, and a huge demand for beer, particularly lager. The term lager comes from a German word that means to stock or store…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dave Burkhart:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> And typically lager beer in those lands is made and then stored or lagered either in a cellar or an alpine cave on almost always on ice or in a very cool temperature for a number of months. And that’s where it develops its clean, crisp flavors. Well, guess what? Ice and water refrigeration were not available in California during the gold rush. So the Brewers had to figure out a way to make the best lager they could make under those primitive conditions and without ice. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> The first steps of beer making require steeping your malt in heating water, and boiling that mixture. Then you need to cool it down before adding the yeast because yeast is a living organism, and if it’s too hot, it’ll die. And that’s the magic ingredient that makes your beer alcoholic. But you need to cool it quickly to prevent bacteria growth. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dave Burkhart: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So what they did was they pumped it up to the rooftop of the brewery, which was enclosed on all four sides by Louvered windows and had a slanted roof, so condensation wouldn’t drip right back into the beer. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> The hot mixture would sit in these big shallow pans, so cool air could flow around them.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dave Burkhart: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And guess what? When Hot Wort, which is what beer is called before you add yeast to it, met cold air of San Francisco, you get something that looks like steam wafting from those louvered windows. And so somebody said, “Well, boy, they must be making steam beer up there.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> The term “Steam Beer” was later trademarked by Anchor, but you can find a similar style of beer sold under the name California Common. And for a long time that’s the only kind of beer Anchor Brewing made. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Let’s jump ahead to 1965… Anchor Brewing has changed hands several times and is now owned by a guy named Lawrence Steese. And it is not doing very well. They’re making 2 beers–sort of… that classic Steam and something that at least looks like a Porter… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dave Burkhart:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> It wasn’t called Porter, it was just called steam light and steam dark. And all they did was literally add caramel coloring to the keg as they were filling the keg. It wasn’t even in the brew. There was no dark malt. There was no nothing. It looked like Porter, but it tasted. If you close your eyes, guess what it was exactly… exactly the same. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The quality of the beer they’re churning out is very inconsistent, due to sanitation issues, like bacteria growth. Local bars are reporting that kegs arrive spoiled. And Anchor Brewing is in deep financial trouble, on the verge of bankruptcy. Then along comes… Fritz Maytag. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dave Burkhart: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Absolutely one of the brightest people I know. Sharp as a tack. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">If the name Maytag sounds familiar to you, it’s probably because you’ve seen it on your washing machine. Fritz is grandson of the founder of the Maytag Corporation. Or it could be that you’ve had Maytag Blue Cheese, because Fritz’s father started Maytag Dairy Farms. Talk about a family with a diverse business portfolio… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">In 1965, Fritz Maytag was a 28-year-old entrepreneur, looking to branch out in yet another direction from his family’s enterprises. He’d attended Stanford, and lived in the Bay Area, and when he heard from a local bartender that a legacy business like Anchor was close to shutting its doors, he decided he had to help. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dave Burkhart:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> And so he bought 51% stake in the brewery for $5,100 dollars…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">A little under 50 grand in today’s money. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dave Burkhart:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> And then loaned promptly had to loan Lawrence Stice about $9,000. Fritz was charmed by the brewery, but also realized that in addition to being America’s smallest brewery at the time, It was also the most medieval brewery, as Fritz liked to call it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">For one thing, the brewery was still using that same method of cooling the wort on the roof of the building that they had been back in the 1890s. They didn’t even have refrigeration. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dave Burkhart: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">It had a refrigerator where you could leave your lunch, you know, But that was about it. This is this was in 1965, for gosh sakes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Fritz set about taking this “medieval” brewery and modernizing it, starting with refrigeration and stainless steel tanks, which are much easier to keep clean. The funny thing is, before buying a majority stake in Anchor, Fritz didn’t actually know anything about beer. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dave Burkhart:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> as he started to work there and see the problems with the beer he saw it as a challenge and saw it as something that he really loved and taught himself all about brewing. And eventually in 1969, he bought out Steese and and ended up being 100% owner,, although it took him ten years to turn a profit at the brewery. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">For the majority of the company’s history Anchor beer had only been available locally on tap. But In 1971, they began bottling Anchor Steam – and branching out, style-wise. The first new brew – a Porter… A real one, this time…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dave Burkhart:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> an all malt porter made with a black patent or dark malt, as well as the caramel malt and pale malt. That was in 1972 and we began bottling it in 1974. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">In 1975 they introduced three more beers… Anchor Liberty Ale, Old Foghorn Barleywine and the seasonal Anchor Christmas Ale, which started a tradition where each year the recipe and the label on the bottle are just a little different. And each of Anchor’s now 5 different beers was unique in character… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dave Burkhart: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">They all looked different. They all tasted different. They all smelled different. They all had different labels, but they all felt like they came from Anchor.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Experimenting with different styles is a hallmark of craft breweries now, but at the time it was unusual, because in the 1970s… American beer was pretty homogenous. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dave Burkhart: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Sad to say, virtually all of the beer in America, as anybody knows who was drinking, drinking beer back then will tell you, it was all fizzy lite, \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Medley of 70s beer commercials\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dave Burkhart: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">yellow, bubbly, bland, tasteless, characterless. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Medley of 70s beer commercials\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">It’s not that any of the styles Anchor was brewing were brand new, they just weren’t commonly available in the U.S. at that time. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dave Burkhart:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> And that was one of the beauties of what Fritz was doing. It was what he called a radically traditional idea. It was radical to make a traditional beer in those days.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Selling their beer in bottles allowed Anchor to reach a wider market, and people outside the Bay Area started to take notice of these robust, more artfully brewed beers. Some started flocking to the brewery to see how it all worked … because they wanted to do it too. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dave Burkhart: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Fritz was open source before the words open source and was happy to give everybody that came a tour, tell them all about our beer and, you know, promote the idea of what ultimately became known as craft beer. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Dave says the term ‘craft beer’ was just taking off around the time he started working at Anchor in 1991. Before that people referred to it as microbrewing. Anchor was doing a lot of experimentation with different hops and malts, and that, combined with their modern techniques and the fact that they were seeing renewed success, inspired a lot of new businesses… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dave Burkhart:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> A couple of those guys were Ken Grossman and Paul Camusi from what became Sierra Nevada Brewing Company. Jack McAuliffe of New Albion came to the brewery. Everybody wanted to make that pilgrimage, and why not, to see how it was done because the brewery was… it was small, but it was successful. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And the craft beer scene started to take off and evolve… for example, there’s the story about a young couple from Southern California…Natalie and her boyfriend Vinnie.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Natalie \u003c/b>\u003cb>Cilurzo\u003c/b>\u003cb>:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> I asked him what he wanted to do with the rest of his life. Like, what do you want to be when you grow up that everybody asks you at that age? And he said, I want to own my own brewery. And I Said how do you know this? You’re not even old enough to buy beer. And he said, I just do. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Natalie brought Vinnie to see the Anchor Brewing tour for his 21st birthday in 1991. Dave gave the tour.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dave Burkhart:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Fritz was there that day. I won’t claim to have been inspirational. But Fritz was certainly inspirational. The tour left a big impression on Vinnee … and on Dave too.\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Dave Burkhart:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> But he wrote me a thank you note, and I saved it for some reason. I just got this weird sense about him like “Maybe I should just save this note.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">30 years later… Vinnee comes back for a 2nd tour, this time at the invitation of Anchor Brewing. Because Vinnie and Natalie Cilurzo now run Russian River Brewing, makers of the popular Pliny the Elder imperial IPA. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Vinnie Cilurzo:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Dave whips out this piece of paper and it’s a handwritten letter just thanking him for the visit and whatnot. And I was, I was blown away that Dave still had that.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So you can think of Anchor Brewing as sort of a parent or grandparent of many of the well-known craft breweries around today. Vinnie credits Anchor as an early inspiration. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Vinnie Cilurzo:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Anchor Liberty and Sierra Nevada Pale Ale were two, like, formidable beers that were in my– still are in my DNA. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Amanda Font: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And he’s leveraged that inspiration to great success… Here’s a perfect example. Before taking over Russian River, Vinnie opened his first brewery, called Blind Pig, in his hometown of Temecula California. He was young, and just starting out, so he had to buy his brewing equipment second hand. It was a little old, some of it was plastic, and it was kind of cobbled together. He was worried it might affect the taste of his beer. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Vinnie Cilurzo:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> So I just thought, Well, what if we take our IPA recipe and double all the hops and then raise the malt a little bit? So then we get a little higher alcohol content in a way, almost like kind of hide the flavors because we couldn’t afford to fail on the first brew. Granted, if it would have been contaminated, we would have dumped it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But it wasn’t, and when they released the beer, it was good. So the next year they released another Double IPA… That’s right, Vinnie is credited with inventing that extra strong, extra hoppy style known as double IPA. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The spirit of innovation among local craft breweries has accelerated in recent decades. New hop varieties are coming out all the time – giving brewers flavors to experiment with that Fritz Maytag could only dream of back in the 60s.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Vinnie Cilurzo:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> I just dry hopped a beer today with a hop that is a– it’s a number, NZ-109, and we’re the second brewery in the world, I’ve been told, to use this hop. And so here we’re experimenting with this new hop variety. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Vinnie and his now wife Natalie showed me how it’s done at their state of the art brewery in Windsor California, about 10 miles north of Santa Rosa. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">sounds of brewing facility\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Vinnie Cilurzo giving a tour:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> So this is what the hops looked like before they went into the hop back. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Natalie \u003c/b>\u003cb>Cilurzo\u003c/b>\u003cb>:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">If you think of like in cooking, you know, the hops would be like your herbs and spices and so you’d have your base recipe that you can then make the same best base recipe for several different beers. But you can you can dramatically alter them by just different hop varieties that you use. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The day I visited they were brewing a big batch of their happy hops IPA. As we walked through the brewery, we came across a couple large tubs of spent hops, still warm from being in the brew.. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003ci>Sound of tour:\u003c/i>\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> So this is this could be Amarillo. It couldn’t stone fruit. Yeah, it could be a….Smell that you’re going to love this smell.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The still slightly damp hops smell amazing– a little piney, citrusy, with a note of freshly mown hay.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I was struck by just how passionate the people who work in craft beer really are. And how that enthusiasm translates into really good beer. I also got the sense that a lot of these breweries feel a camaraderie with each other…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dave Burkhart\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">: \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Lagunitas invited all employees and former employees of Anchor Brewing to an anchor appreciation party.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Vinnie Cilurzo:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> When Stone Brewing in Escondido had their second anniversary, they made a double IPA and they actually gave me credit on their on their label, which was pretty cool of Greg and Steve to do that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">It could be that along with a philosophy of creative experimentation, Fritz Maytag’s “open source” style of welcoming brewers to Anchor also set a standard… where rather than cutthroat competition, brewers respect and cheer on each other’s creations, because they’re all doing something unique. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But the craft beer industry is facing some challenges right now. The pandemic hit everyone hard, and tastes change over time… alcoholic seltzers seem to be the hot thing right now. Plus, the market is a little saturated, and increasing costs can mean that breweries that were once considered ‘craft’ now don’t technically qualify because they’ve had to turn to larger business partners. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Before it closed, Anchor was sold to Sapporo in 2017, making it no longer a craft brewery. Petaluma-based Lagunitas, another brewery popular for its creative beers, doesn’t technically qualify anymore. Heiniken bought a 50% stake in the company in 2015. But maybe rigid qualifications like that don’t fully reflect what’s at the heart of an industry based on creativity… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Vinnie Cilurzo:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> I define craft brewing as quality, quality driven. And and at the end of the day, I’m actually not sure anymore if it matters who owns you or whatnot. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Historian Dave Burkhart summed it up nicely too… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dave Burkhart\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">: A craft beer is a distinctive, aesthetically pleasing alcoholic beverage made from malted grain whose taste, aroma, quality and consistency reflect the skill, integrity and creative imagination of its brewer. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">As a fellow beer lover, I’ll drink to that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">sound of cheers\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">That was Bay Curious producer Amanda Font. Big thanks to Ricky Tjandra for sending in that question. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">It’s a new month and that means… there’s a new voting round up at BayCurious.org. Head over to cast your vote for what question you think we should answer next. It only takes a few seconds! Also, there’s a new monthly trivia contest question … hang on at the end of this episode for a chance to win.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Bay Curious is made in San Francisco at member-supported KQED. Our show is produced by Amanda Font, Christopher Beale and me, Olivia Allen-Price. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Additional support from Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Cesar Saldana, Maha Sanad, Holly Kernan and the whole KEQD Family. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Have a good one, everybody!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"In the 1960s and 70s, American beer drinkers didn't have many options. Large brewers were pumping out beer that was bland, tasteless and characterless. But Anchor Brewing stood apart.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1702319308,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":true,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":160,"wordCount":6324},"headData":{"title":"How San Francisco’s Anchor Brewing Started the Craft Beer Craze | KQED","description":"In the 1960s and 70s, American beer drinkers didn't have many options. Large brewers were pumping out beer that was bland, tasteless and characterless. But Anchor Brewing stood apart.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"How San Francisco’s Anchor Brewing Started the Craft Beer Craze","datePublished":"2023-12-07T11:01:32.000Z","dateModified":"2023-12-11T18:28:28.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"Y","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"audioUrl":"https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/pdst.fm/e/chrt.fm/track/G6C7C3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC6500446993.mp3?updated=1701899199","sticky":false,"templateType":"standard","featuredImageType":"standard","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11969212/how-san-franciscos-anchor-brewing-started-the-craft-beer-craze","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cbr>\nThe craft beer market has been booming the last few decades. Last year the number of craft breweries in the U.S. reached an all time high of 9,552. And California is a paradise for craft beer lovers like Bay Curious listener Ricky Tjandra – the state is home to over 950 such brew operations.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When Ricky, who lives in Hayward, first started drinking beer in the early 2000s, he’d buy the basics: Coors, Budweiser, and the like. Then he and his friends started exploring the many different styles that Bay Area breweries were offering.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003caside class=\"alignleft utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__bayCuriousPodcastShortcode__bayCurious\">\u003cimg src=https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/bayCuriousLogo.png alt=\"Bay Curious Podcast\" />\n \u003ca href=\"/news/series/baycurious\">Bay Curious\u003c/a> is a podcast that answers your questions about the Bay Area.\n Subscribe on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/bay-curious/id1172473406\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Apple Podcasts\u003c/a>,\n \u003ca href=\"http://www.npr.org/podcasts/500557090/bay-curious\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">NPR One\u003c/a> or your favorite podcast platform.\u003c/aside>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We started seeing other beers that weren’t in the supermarket out in bars,” said Ricky. “It got me interested.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Now, as a craft beer aficionado, Ricky asked Bay Curious to investigate the local lore that this nationwide beer trend got its start in the Bay Area.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I heard that the Bay Area is one of the first places to produce craft beer before craft beer even became a thing,” he said, “Is that true?”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>What’s in a name?\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>First, you might be wondering what the difference is between a ‘craft’ beer and just any beer.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The official definition is set by the Brewers Association, a national industry trade group for craft brewers. It says the “craft” in brewing comes down to an operation’s ownership and output. A craft brewery can’t be more than 25% owned by a company or investor that is not also a craft brewery. And the annual output of the brewery can’t be more than six million barrels of bee r– a considerable amount. A barrel is 31 gallons of beer, and six million of them is enough to fill 380 Olympic sized swimming pools.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There’s another, less official standard for what defines a craft beer; one that’s more about quality and character. How is it made? What kind of creative process did the brewer go through when developing it? Does it utilize new, perhaps experimental ingredients or flavors?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Retired Anchor Brewing Historian, Dave Burkhart, has his own definition:\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“A craft beer is a distinctive, aesthetically pleasing alcoholic beverage made from malted grain whose taste, aroma, quality and consistency reflect the skill, integrity and creative imagination of its brewer.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Dave is the author of The Anchor Brewing Story, which tells the complete history of the Anchor Brewing Company — where he worked for 31 years — from the Gold Rush all the way to the present day. Dave began working at the brewery in 1991, and over the years did a number of jobs, including acting as tour guide and helping to design many of Anchor’s beautiful labels.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Anchor Brewing has been in the news this year, because after 127 years of brewing beer in San Francisco, the institution shut its doors at the end of July. Prior to its closure, Anchor Brewing had been purchased by Japanese brewer, Sapporo, in 2017. Former union workers of the Bay Area brewery hope to raise money to buy it back, but no deals have so far been made and the building currently sits empty.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11969214\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11969214\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/230714-AnchorBrewing-22-BL-qut-800x533.jpg\" alt=\"Two people talk as they look through boxes of Anchor merchandise in a warehouse-type space.\" width=\"800\" height=\"533\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/230714-AnchorBrewing-22-BL-qut-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/230714-AnchorBrewing-22-BL-qut-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/230714-AnchorBrewing-22-BL-qut-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/230714-AnchorBrewing-22-BL-qut-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/230714-AnchorBrewing-22-BL-qut.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Shari Walker and Marshall Stine gathered Anchor beer and merchandise in the final days before it closed. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Innovation at Anchor Brewing is widely considered to be the catalyst to the modern craft beer movement. So the short answer to Ricky’s question is: Yes, American craft beer really did take off in San Francisco. But it took quite a while to get there.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Steamy beginnings\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>During the Gold Rush thirsty miners created a huge demand for beer. So beer making operations were popping up all over the place. The brewery that would become Anchor Brewing was first opened as Golden City Brewery in 1871 on Pacific Avenue, between Larkin and Hyde in Nob Hill. In 1896, that location was purchased by Ernst Baruth and his son-in-law, Otto Schenkel Jr., who changed the name to Anchor Brewing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As part of the deal, new owners Baruth and Schenkel also got the recipe to the only beer that the brewery had been making. This beer would come to be known as Anchor Steam, and it’s the style that would keep the company afloat for decades to come.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>What is a “steam” beer?\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>The term “steam beer” is now trademarked by Anchor Brewing, but a similar style of beer can be found under the name California Common.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Dave says there’s no one clear answer where the name comes from, but there are a few potential origins for the term. The most popular theory relates to its Gold Rush-era method of manufacture.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The first steps of beer making require steeping the malt in heating water, removing it, then boiling that mixture. The wort, as it’s called at that point, then needs to be cooled down before the yeast is added. Yeast is a living organism and if it gets too hot, it will die. The cooling process needs to happen fairly quickly to prevent bacteria from growing in the mixture.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Back when beer was being brewed in San Francisco in the 19th century, refrigeration was not available, and this process was a lot harder.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“So what they did was, they pumped it up to the rooftop of the brewery, which was enclosed on all four sides by Louvered windows and had a slanted roof, so condensation wouldn’t drip right back into the beer,” said Dave.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Here’s where the “steam” came in: The hot mixture, not alcoholic yet, would sit in large shallow pans while the cold San Francisco air flowed around them, creating a cloud of steam that drifted out from the windows on the roof.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Somebody said, ‘Well, boy, they must be making steam beer up there,’” said Dave, about how the name may have been coined.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For a very long time, that was the only kind of beer Anchor Brewing made.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Then along came Fritz\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>By 1965, after changing hands several times, and relocating to the corner of De Haro and Mariposa Streets in Potrero Hill, Anchor Brewing was in a bad financial situation. At the time, the company was run by a man named Lawrence Steese who, despite his best efforts, was having difficulty maintaining the quality of the beer.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Much of the equipment was very old. In fact, the brewery did not have refrigeration and still used the same 1890s-era rooftop cooling method. Sanitation issues meant that bacteria growth sometimes ruined the beer. Local bartenders were reporting that kegs arrived spoiled. The company was on the verge of bankruptcy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Then came Fritz Maytag.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Maytag name may be familiar. Fritz’s grandfather founded the Maytag Corporation, the household appliance manufacturer best known for their washing machines. Fritz’s father also founded Maytag Dairy Farms, known for making a distinctive blue cheese.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In 1965, Fritz Maytag was a 28-year-old entrepreneur who’d attended Stanford University and lived in San Francisco. When he heard from a local bartender that a legacy business like Anchor Brewing was about to close, he decided to help. He bought a 51% stake in the company for $5,100 (just under $50K in today’s money) and loaned his co-owner additional cash to keep the business afloat.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"emailsignup","attributes":{"named":{"newslettername":"baycurious","align":"right","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At the time, Fritz had no beer making know-how. He kept Lawrence Steese on for the first several years as brewmaster while he learned the trade and converted what he termed ‘America’s most medieval brewery’ into a modern marvel. Fritz switched to cooling the brew with refrigeration, and improved sanitation with stainless steel fermentation tanks.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“He saw it as a challenge,” said Dave, who counts Fritz Maytag as a close friend.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Eventually in 1969, he bought out Steese and and ended up being 100% owner, although it took him ten years to turn a profit at the brewery,” he added.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11969215\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11969215\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/GettyImages-1298609915-800x474.jpg\" alt=\"A black and white photo of a white bearded man wearing a white button down and a tie. He is seated in front of beer paraphernalia. \" width=\"800\" height=\"474\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/GettyImages-1298609915-800x474.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/GettyImages-1298609915-1020x605.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/GettyImages-1298609915-160x95.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/GettyImages-1298609915-1536x910.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/GettyImages-1298609915-2048x1214.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/12/GettyImages-1298609915-1920x1138.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Fritz Maytag of Anchor Brewing in 1978. \u003ccite>(Photo by Gary Fong/San Francisco Chronicle via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>In 1971, Anchor began bottling their Steam beer, which had previously only been available locally and on tap. That same year they introduced their first new beer – Anchor Porter. In 1975 they introduced three more: Liberty Ale, Old Foghorn Barleywine and the seasonal Anchor Christmas Ale. Soon all five beers were being bottled.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>None of these beer styles were brand new – variations of them have been brewed in Europe for hundreds of years. But Dave says they were novel in the American commercial beer market at the time, which consisted mainly of watered down versions of lager.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Sad to say, virtually all of the beer in America, as anybody who was drinking beer back then will tell you, was all fizzy, light, yellow, bubbly, bland, tasteless, characterless,” Dave said, “And that was one of the beauties of what Fritz was doing. It was what he called a radically traditional idea. It was radical to make a traditional beer in those days.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>With the availability of bottled Anchor beer being sold to a wider market, people started to take notice of their robust and creative brews, and their renewed success. Soon, visitors were flocking to the brewery to see how it was done. something that Fritz Maytag welcomed. Dave says Fritz was happy to give anyone a tour, and promote the idea that would come to be known as craft brewing.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>A legacy of creativity and openness\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>From there the craft beer industry began to blossom as inspired homebrewers in California, and nationwide made their beers commercial.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“A couple of those guys were Ken Grossman and Paul Camusi from what became Sierra Nevada Brewing Company. Jack McAuliffe of New Albion came to the brewery,” said Dave.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The short lived New Albion Brewing Company opened in 1978, and was the first modern microbrewery to open in the U.S. since prohibition. Though New Albion closed in 1982, many other breweries inspired by Anchor have survived and thrived.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Two of the marvelous success stories in California beer that were both inspired by Anchor are Sierra Nevada and Russian River,” said Dave. (full disclosure: Sierra Nevada Brewing is a sponsor of Bay Curious)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Russian River makes the very popular Pliny the Elder imperial IPA. They’re known for their hoppy beers, and Vinnie Cilurzo, who runs the brewery with his wife Natalie in Windsor, California, is actually credited with inventing the beer style known as a double IPA while running his first brewery, Blind Pig.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Vinnie cites Anchor Brewing and Sierra Nevada as being early inspirations for the hop-forward beers that are the hallmark of his brewery.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Anchor Liberty and Sierra Nevada Pale Ale were two, like, formidable beers that … still are in my DNA,” said Vinnie.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A sense of camaraderie and respect seems to exist among the craft brewing industry. Vinnie Cilurzo mentioned how proud he was to have a sign from the original New Albion brewery hanging in his brewpub pub in Santa Rosa, and that Stone Brewing had credited him by name on their bottles when they released their version of a double IPA.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Historian Dave Burkhart told me that following the closure of Anchor Brewing, all current and former staff were invited to a party in Petaluma by the employees of Lagunitas Brewing Company to celebrate the life of the company.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It could be that along with a philosophy of creative experimentation, Fritz Maytag’s ‘open source’ style of welcoming brewers to Anchor also set a standard— where rather than cutthroat competition, brewers cheer on each other’s creations, because each is doing something unique.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"baycuriousquestion","attributes":{"named":{"label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"><h2 id=”episode-transcript”>Episode Transcript</h2>\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Beer…Humans love it, Americans love it, Californians love it. Whether you’r\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">e cracking open a cold one at Dolores Park, clinking pint glasses with your buds at a local brewery, or paying way too much for refreshments at a Giants game… When there’\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">s good times to be had, many Californians choose: BEER. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font speaking fast, mimicking a beer commercial: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Side effects of beer may include thinking you’re stronger than you really are, excessive burping, and ordering nachos. Please drink responsibly, and only if you’re 21 or over. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Hey everyone. This is Bay Curious, the show that answers your questions about the San Francisco Bay Area. I’m Olivia Allen-Price. And I want to kick off this week’s episode by playing you one of my favorite sounds …\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">beer pouring sound\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">That’s a fresh pint of beer being poured. That kinda dampened foamy sound is just … mm! … so good. Especially when you hear it in one of the Bay Area’s many fine drinking establishments.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ricky Tjandra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">There’s this place called Buffalo Bill’s in Hayward, and I’ve been going there since a little after college, like 2000. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Bay Curious listener Ricky Tjandra enjoys having a pint with friends. In particular, he enjoys local craft beers. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ricky Tjandra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">At first I liked the IPAs and they started to be a little too heavy for me. So now I’ve been in more into Pilsners and Kölsch, and yeah, I think Kölsch has been my go to beer lately. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Ricky says when he first started enjoying beer in the early 2000s, he’d drink the basics.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ricky Tjandra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Like Budweiser, Coors Light. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But then some of his friends started brewing their own beer, and getting more curious about different styles. And as their tastes changed, they began trying the wide variety of brews sold in markets around the Bay Area that were produced here– Something that at the time, he hadn’t really seen outside of California. Now, as a craft beer aficionado, he wonders.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">theme music \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ricky Tjandra:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> So I heard that the Bay Area is one of the first places to produce craft beer before craft beer even became a thing. Is that true? And if so, how did it start? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">This week on Bay Curious … we explore how the Bay Area became the epicenter for the modern craft beer explosion. And we’ll go inside a successful brewery. That’s all just ahead. Stick around.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Sponsor break\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We’ve got producer Amanda Font here today to answer Ricky’s question about how craft beer got its start. But first, Amanda, what exactly makes something a “craft beer” versus just a regular beer?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Well, there’s sort of two answers. First there’s the official industry definition. According to the Brewers Association, which is a trade group for craft brewers, it comes down to ownership and output. Your brewery can’t be more than 25% owned or controlled by a company that is NOT a craft brewery. And your annual output must be less than 6 million barrels of beer. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> OK. Can you give us some context. How much, really, is 6 million barrels? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">A barrel is 31 gallons. So 6 million of them could fill 380 Olympic sized swimming pools. Which is a LOT. For perspective, Bay Curious sponsor Sierra Nevada is one of the largest craft breweries, with a nationwide distribution, and their annual output is only about 1.2 million barrels. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> So what’s the other thing? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The second sort of signifier of a craft brewer isn’t official, it’s more about the characteristics of the beer itself. How is it made? What kind of creative process did the brewer go through when developing it? Does it utilize new, maybe experimental ingredients or flavors? Like you kind of know a craft beer when you taste it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah, totally. I am a lot like our question asker Ricky. In my twenties I drank a lot of Bud Light, PBR, Natty Boh (shoutout Baltimore). All kinds of light lagers that taste pretty similar. The first time I had a craft brew, it blew my mind. So much flavor! Now I’m always on the lookout for new brews to try and we have so many options here.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Definitely! California has more craft breweries than any other state – around 957. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So… to answer Ricky’s question… Is it true that that idea of ‘craft brewing’ started in the Bay Area? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">It is true! It’s widely accepted that modern American craft brewing started right here in San Francisco at Anchor Brewing. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dave Burkhart:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> We had people coming to the brewery from all over the world, from all kinds of backgrounds. Just beer lovers, beer aficionados, brewers, people that were interested in starting a brewery, whether they were entrepreneurs or home brewers. It was absolutely just abuzz,\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I talked to Dave Burkhart.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dave Burkhart:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> My title is Anchor Brewery historian Emeritus, which has nothing to do with merit and simply means that I retired.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Dave worked at Anchor Brewing for 31 years starting in 1991. He did a lot of different jobs. Everything from being on the design team for their beautiful labels, to doing lab work and being a tour guide. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dave Burkhart:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Tour guide was a great job and everybody did it because it was a great way to learn about the brewery. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">While working as a tour guide people would ask him history questions that he didn’t know the answers to, so he’d ask other people in the company and they also weren’t sure. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dave Burkhart: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Here I was working at a San Francisco institution that had been around forever, and nobody really knew all that much about the history. So I began delving into it on my own. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The result is his book, The Anchor Brewing Story.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dave Burkhart:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">…which tells the Complete History of Anchor Brewing Company from the Gold Rush all the way to the present day. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Now, you may have seen Anchor Brewing in the news this year because after 127 years of brewing beer in San Francisco, the company ceased operations and shut its doors at the end of July. It’s not necessarily gone forever…there are efforts underway to raise money to help the former union workers at Anchor buy the brewery and reopen it. But currently the property is for sale for $40 million dollars. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">What is for certain, is that Anchor’s influence as the center of the modern craft beer movement can’t be underestimated. But it took a long time to get there. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The story starts just after the gold rush. The brewery that would become Anchor was first opened as Golden City Brewery in 1871 on Pacific Avenue, between Larkin and Hyde in Nob Hill. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dave Burkhart: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">In 1896, Ernst Baruth and his son in law, Otto Schenkel Jr, bought the brewery and changed the name to Anchor. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">1896 is what Anchor claims as their official establishment year. As part of the deal, the new owners also got the recipe for one and only beer that the brewery had been making– what would come to be known as Anchor Steam– the iconic beer that kept this business open for many decades to come… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dave Burkhart:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> The question that I’ve probably been asked more times than any in 31 and a half years that I worked at the brewery was why is it called steam beer? And I’d like to say that there’s one answer and there’s one easy answer. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">There are a few potential reasons, but Here’s what is probably the most popular theory behind the name… During the Goldrush there were a lot of thirsty miners, and a huge demand for beer, particularly lager. The term lager comes from a German word that means to stock or store…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dave Burkhart:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> And typically lager beer in those lands is made and then stored or lagered either in a cellar or an alpine cave on almost always on ice or in a very cool temperature for a number of months. And that’s where it develops its clean, crisp flavors. Well, guess what? Ice and water refrigeration were not available in California during the gold rush. So the Brewers had to figure out a way to make the best lager they could make under those primitive conditions and without ice. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> The first steps of beer making require steeping your malt in heating water, and boiling that mixture. Then you need to cool it down before adding the yeast because yeast is a living organism, and if it’s too hot, it’ll die. And that’s the magic ingredient that makes your beer alcoholic. But you need to cool it quickly to prevent bacteria growth. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dave Burkhart: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So what they did was they pumped it up to the rooftop of the brewery, which was enclosed on all four sides by Louvered windows and had a slanted roof, so condensation wouldn’t drip right back into the beer. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> The hot mixture would sit in these big shallow pans, so cool air could flow around them.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dave Burkhart: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And guess what? When Hot Wort, which is what beer is called before you add yeast to it, met cold air of San Francisco, you get something that looks like steam wafting from those louvered windows. And so somebody said, “Well, boy, they must be making steam beer up there.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> The term “Steam Beer” was later trademarked by Anchor, but you can find a similar style of beer sold under the name California Common. And for a long time that’s the only kind of beer Anchor Brewing made. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Let’s jump ahead to 1965… Anchor Brewing has changed hands several times and is now owned by a guy named Lawrence Steese. And it is not doing very well. They’re making 2 beers–sort of… that classic Steam and something that at least looks like a Porter… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dave Burkhart:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> It wasn’t called Porter, it was just called steam light and steam dark. And all they did was literally add caramel coloring to the keg as they were filling the keg. It wasn’t even in the brew. There was no dark malt. There was no nothing. It looked like Porter, but it tasted. If you close your eyes, guess what it was exactly… exactly the same. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The quality of the beer they’re churning out is very inconsistent, due to sanitation issues, like bacteria growth. Local bars are reporting that kegs arrive spoiled. And Anchor Brewing is in deep financial trouble, on the verge of bankruptcy. Then along comes… Fritz Maytag. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dave Burkhart: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Absolutely one of the brightest people I know. Sharp as a tack. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">If the name Maytag sounds familiar to you, it’s probably because you’ve seen it on your washing machine. Fritz is grandson of the founder of the Maytag Corporation. Or it could be that you’ve had Maytag Blue Cheese, because Fritz’s father started Maytag Dairy Farms. Talk about a family with a diverse business portfolio… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">In 1965, Fritz Maytag was a 28-year-old entrepreneur, looking to branch out in yet another direction from his family’s enterprises. He’d attended Stanford, and lived in the Bay Area, and when he heard from a local bartender that a legacy business like Anchor was close to shutting its doors, he decided he had to help. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dave Burkhart:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> And so he bought 51% stake in the brewery for $5,100 dollars…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">A little under 50 grand in today’s money. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dave Burkhart:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> And then loaned promptly had to loan Lawrence Stice about $9,000. Fritz was charmed by the brewery, but also realized that in addition to being America’s smallest brewery at the time, It was also the most medieval brewery, as Fritz liked to call it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">For one thing, the brewery was still using that same method of cooling the wort on the roof of the building that they had been back in the 1890s. They didn’t even have refrigeration. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dave Burkhart: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">It had a refrigerator where you could leave your lunch, you know, But that was about it. This is this was in 1965, for gosh sakes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Fritz set about taking this “medieval” brewery and modernizing it, starting with refrigeration and stainless steel tanks, which are much easier to keep clean. The funny thing is, before buying a majority stake in Anchor, Fritz didn’t actually know anything about beer. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dave Burkhart:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> as he started to work there and see the problems with the beer he saw it as a challenge and saw it as something that he really loved and taught himself all about brewing. And eventually in 1969, he bought out Steese and and ended up being 100% owner,, although it took him ten years to turn a profit at the brewery. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">For the majority of the company’s history Anchor beer had only been available locally on tap. But In 1971, they began bottling Anchor Steam – and branching out, style-wise. The first new brew – a Porter… A real one, this time…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dave Burkhart:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> an all malt porter made with a black patent or dark malt, as well as the caramel malt and pale malt. That was in 1972 and we began bottling it in 1974. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">In 1975 they introduced three more beers… Anchor Liberty Ale, Old Foghorn Barleywine and the seasonal Anchor Christmas Ale, which started a tradition where each year the recipe and the label on the bottle are just a little different. And each of Anchor’s now 5 different beers was unique in character… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dave Burkhart: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">They all looked different. They all tasted different. They all smelled different. They all had different labels, but they all felt like they came from Anchor.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Experimenting with different styles is a hallmark of craft breweries now, but at the time it was unusual, because in the 1970s… American beer was pretty homogenous. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dave Burkhart: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Sad to say, virtually all of the beer in America, as anybody knows who was drinking, drinking beer back then will tell you, it was all fizzy lite, \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Medley of 70s beer commercials\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dave Burkhart: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">yellow, bubbly, bland, tasteless, characterless. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Medley of 70s beer commercials\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">It’s not that any of the styles Anchor was brewing were brand new, they just weren’t commonly available in the U.S. at that time. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dave Burkhart:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> And that was one of the beauties of what Fritz was doing. It was what he called a radically traditional idea. It was radical to make a traditional beer in those days.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Selling their beer in bottles allowed Anchor to reach a wider market, and people outside the Bay Area started to take notice of these robust, more artfully brewed beers. Some started flocking to the brewery to see how it all worked … because they wanted to do it too. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dave Burkhart: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Fritz was open source before the words open source and was happy to give everybody that came a tour, tell them all about our beer and, you know, promote the idea of what ultimately became known as craft beer. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Dave says the term ‘craft beer’ was just taking off around the time he started working at Anchor in 1991. Before that people referred to it as microbrewing. Anchor was doing a lot of experimentation with different hops and malts, and that, combined with their modern techniques and the fact that they were seeing renewed success, inspired a lot of new businesses… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dave Burkhart:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> A couple of those guys were Ken Grossman and Paul Camusi from what became Sierra Nevada Brewing Company. Jack McAuliffe of New Albion came to the brewery. Everybody wanted to make that pilgrimage, and why not, to see how it was done because the brewery was… it was small, but it was successful. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And the craft beer scene started to take off and evolve… for example, there’s the story about a young couple from Southern California…Natalie and her boyfriend Vinnie.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Natalie \u003c/b>\u003cb>Cilurzo\u003c/b>\u003cb>:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> I asked him what he wanted to do with the rest of his life. Like, what do you want to be when you grow up that everybody asks you at that age? And he said, I want to own my own brewery. And I Said how do you know this? You’re not even old enough to buy beer. And he said, I just do. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Natalie brought Vinnie to see the Anchor Brewing tour for his 21st birthday in 1991. Dave gave the tour.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dave Burkhart:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Fritz was there that day. I won’t claim to have been inspirational. But Fritz was certainly inspirational. The tour left a big impression on Vinnee … and on Dave too.\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Dave Burkhart:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> But he wrote me a thank you note, and I saved it for some reason. I just got this weird sense about him like “Maybe I should just save this note.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">30 years later… Vinnee comes back for a 2nd tour, this time at the invitation of Anchor Brewing. Because Vinnie and Natalie Cilurzo now run Russian River Brewing, makers of the popular Pliny the Elder imperial IPA. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Vinnie Cilurzo:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Dave whips out this piece of paper and it’s a handwritten letter just thanking him for the visit and whatnot. And I was, I was blown away that Dave still had that.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So you can think of Anchor Brewing as sort of a parent or grandparent of many of the well-known craft breweries around today. Vinnie credits Anchor as an early inspiration. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Vinnie Cilurzo:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Anchor Liberty and Sierra Nevada Pale Ale were two, like, formidable beers that were in my– still are in my DNA. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Amanda Font: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And he’s leveraged that inspiration to great success… Here’s a perfect example. Before taking over Russian River, Vinnie opened his first brewery, called Blind Pig, in his hometown of Temecula California. He was young, and just starting out, so he had to buy his brewing equipment second hand. It was a little old, some of it was plastic, and it was kind of cobbled together. He was worried it might affect the taste of his beer. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Vinnie Cilurzo:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> So I just thought, Well, what if we take our IPA recipe and double all the hops and then raise the malt a little bit? So then we get a little higher alcohol content in a way, almost like kind of hide the flavors because we couldn’t afford to fail on the first brew. Granted, if it would have been contaminated, we would have dumped it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But it wasn’t, and when they released the beer, it was good. So the next year they released another Double IPA… That’s right, Vinnie is credited with inventing that extra strong, extra hoppy style known as double IPA. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The spirit of innovation among local craft breweries has accelerated in recent decades. New hop varieties are coming out all the time – giving brewers flavors to experiment with that Fritz Maytag could only dream of back in the 60s.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Vinnie Cilurzo:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> I just dry hopped a beer today with a hop that is a– it’s a number, NZ-109, and we’re the second brewery in the world, I’ve been told, to use this hop. And so here we’re experimenting with this new hop variety. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Vinnie and his now wife Natalie showed me how it’s done at their state of the art brewery in Windsor California, about 10 miles north of Santa Rosa. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">sounds of brewing facility\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Vinnie Cilurzo giving a tour:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> So this is what the hops looked like before they went into the hop back. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Natalie \u003c/b>\u003cb>Cilurzo\u003c/b>\u003cb>:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">If you think of like in cooking, you know, the hops would be like your herbs and spices and so you’d have your base recipe that you can then make the same best base recipe for several different beers. But you can you can dramatically alter them by just different hop varieties that you use. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The day I visited they were brewing a big batch of their happy hops IPA. As we walked through the brewery, we came across a couple large tubs of spent hops, still warm from being in the brew.. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003ci>Sound of tour:\u003c/i>\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> So this is this could be Amarillo. It couldn’t stone fruit. Yeah, it could be a….Smell that you’re going to love this smell.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The still slightly damp hops smell amazing– a little piney, citrusy, with a note of freshly mown hay.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I was struck by just how passionate the people who work in craft beer really are. And how that enthusiasm translates into really good beer. I also got the sense that a lot of these breweries feel a camaraderie with each other…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dave Burkhart\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">: \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Lagunitas invited all employees and former employees of Anchor Brewing to an anchor appreciation party.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Vinnie Cilurzo:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> When Stone Brewing in Escondido had their second anniversary, they made a double IPA and they actually gave me credit on their on their label, which was pretty cool of Greg and Steve to do that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">It could be that along with a philosophy of creative experimentation, Fritz Maytag’s “open source” style of welcoming brewers to Anchor also set a standard… where rather than cutthroat competition, brewers respect and cheer on each other’s creations, because they’re all doing something unique. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But the craft beer industry is facing some challenges right now. The pandemic hit everyone hard, and tastes change over time… alcoholic seltzers seem to be the hot thing right now. Plus, the market is a little saturated, and increasing costs can mean that breweries that were once considered ‘craft’ now don’t technically qualify because they’ve had to turn to larger business partners. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Before it closed, Anchor was sold to Sapporo in 2017, making it no longer a craft brewery. Petaluma-based Lagunitas, another brewery popular for its creative beers, doesn’t technically qualify anymore. Heiniken bought a 50% stake in the company in 2015. But maybe rigid qualifications like that don’t fully reflect what’s at the heart of an industry based on creativity… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Vinnie Cilurzo:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> I define craft brewing as quality, quality driven. And and at the end of the day, I’m actually not sure anymore if it matters who owns you or whatnot. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Historian Dave Burkhart summed it up nicely too… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dave Burkhart\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">: A craft beer is a distinctive, aesthetically pleasing alcoholic beverage made from malted grain whose taste, aroma, quality and consistency reflect the skill, integrity and creative imagination of its brewer. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Font: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">As a fellow beer lover, I’ll drink to that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">sound of cheers\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">That was Bay Curious producer Amanda Font. Big thanks to Ricky Tjandra for sending in that question. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">It’s a new month and that means… there’s a new voting round up at BayCurious.org. Head over to cast your vote for what question you think we should answer next. It only takes a few seconds! Also, there’s a new monthly trivia contest question … hang on at the end of this episode for a chance to win.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Bay Curious is made in San Francisco at member-supported KQED. Our show is produced by Amanda Font, Christopher Beale and me, Olivia Allen-Price. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Additional support from Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Cesar Saldana, Maha Sanad, Holly Kernan and the whole KEQD Family. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Have a good one, everybody!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11969212/how-san-franciscos-anchor-brewing-started-the-craft-beer-craze","authors":["8637"],"programs":["news_33523"],"series":["news_17986"],"categories":["news_8"],"tags":["news_32908","news_3631","news_21212","news_333","news_6627"],"featImg":"news_11969213","label":"news_33523"},"news_11956482":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11956482","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11956482","score":null,"sort":[1690328285000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"san-franciscos-anchor-brewing-company-could-still-stay-open","title":"How San Francisco's Anchor Brewing Company Could Still Stay Open","publishDate":1690328285,"format":"standard","headTitle":"How San Francisco’s Anchor Brewing Company Could Still Stay Open | KQED","labelTerm":{},"content":"\u003cp>More than two dozen interested buyers have come forward to \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11955487/as-anchor-brewing-closes-liquidates-business-workers-hope-for-a-miracle\">keep Anchor Brewing open\u003c/a> after it announced earlier this month that it would close by Aug. 1, according to a company spokesperson. But there are still a few steps before Anchor Brewing can go full steam ahead again, and time is ticking.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We’re open to work with anyone who is willing to work with us,” said Pedro de Sá, a representative with International Longshore and Warehouse Union Local 6, which includes workers at Anchor. “People have reached out to us, some investors who originally talked about going on their own.”[pullquote size=\"medium\" align=\"right\" citation=\"Pedro de Sá, representative, International Longshore and Warehouse Union Local 6\"]‘We had a lot of people reach out to us to help, individuals and investors saying they want to invest.’[/pullquote]Anchor Brewing workers have started laying the groundwork to purchase the business from parent company Sapporo USA and run it as an employee-owned cooperative. Sapporo is open to the idea, but there’s not much time before a state-appointed liquidator will take over the company’s assets and determine whether it will remain open.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Unionized workers at the brewery — representing about a third of the staff — are now hoping to extend that timeline as they evaluate the brewery’s worth and formulate their bid. They have selected a point person to talk through some of the logistics with the parent company, but next need to secure funding and legal representation by Aug. 1.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We want more time. The timeline right now is very short,” de Sá said. “We had a lot of people reach out to us to help, individuals and investors saying they want to invest.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Meanwhile, other offers are brewing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11956486\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11956486\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/RS66999_230714-AnchorBrewing-25-BL-KQED.jpg\" alt='People stand in a line inside a large indoor space with a banner on the wall reading \"Anchor Steam Beer.\"' width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/RS66999_230714-AnchorBrewing-25-BL-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/RS66999_230714-AnchorBrewing-25-BL-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/RS66999_230714-AnchorBrewing-25-BL-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/RS66999_230714-AnchorBrewing-25-BL-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/RS66999_230714-AnchorBrewing-25-BL-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/RS66999_230714-AnchorBrewing-25-BL-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">People wait in line to buy cases of beer and merchandise at Anchor Public Taps in San Francisco on July 14, 2023, after it was announced that Anchor Brewing will soon close. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Venture capitalist Mike Walsh, who lives in the Potrero Hill neighborhood where the brewery and taproom are located, has spent the weeks since the company’s announcement talking to fellow investors and putting together an offer.[aside postID=arts_13927137 hero='https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/2/2023/03/opensfhistory_wnp26.2055.jpg']One person he already tapped is Tony Foglio, who co-owned Anchor from 2010 to 2017 before he and Keith Greggor sold the company to Sapporo for about $85 million.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There’s definitely enough investor interest” to make an offer, Walsh said. “I just have to figure out that offer amount.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Both parties are now crunching the numbers. Walsh said that he plans to meet with employees at the brewery about involvement or collaboration. De Sá did not definitively say what the brewery workers would be open to, but that they “feel strongly at this point that they want to have governance and a say in how that company is run.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The latest dash for a new owner to come in and keep Anchor from shuttering comes after a long history of highs and lows for the historic brand and brewery.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11956487\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11956487\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/RS67000_230714-AnchorBrewing-26-BL-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"People sit under umbrellas in a sunny outdoors space.\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/RS67000_230714-AnchorBrewing-26-BL-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/RS67000_230714-AnchorBrewing-26-BL-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/RS67000_230714-AnchorBrewing-26-BL-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/RS67000_230714-AnchorBrewing-26-BL-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/RS67000_230714-AnchorBrewing-26-BL-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/RS67000_230714-AnchorBrewing-26-BL-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">People sit at picnic tables outside of Anchor Public Taps in San Francisco on July 14, 2023. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Anchor was founded 127 years ago, using actual steam and San Francisco’s cold temps and fog to brew its iconic Anchor Steam beverage. It survived the 1906 earthquake, prohibition and even the boom and bust cycles of the local tech sector.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In 2019, brewery workers unionized, citing the need for higher pay and better working conditions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But Anchor couldn’t make up for sliding sales and broader pandemic-fueled challenges.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“About 70% of the company’s sales were on-premises, meaning in bars or restaurants. When the pandemic came along, that just absolutely tanked sales,” said Anchor spokesperson Sam Singer.[pullquote size=\"medium\" align=\"right\" citation=\"John Elliott, San Francisco resident\"]‘… I’m staying hopeful someone will pick it up and take the brand forward. It’s a huge part of being in the city and growing up in California.’[/pullquote]Singer told KQED that there is no definitive timeline for when a new owner could step in. As of publication, plans to close the taproom and brewery on Aug. 1 are moving ahead.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“After that date, it will be in the hands of the liquidator to make a determination as to whether it will remain open,” Singer said in a text message.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Production has already stopped at the brewery and Anchor Public Taps, the company’s brewpub, will stay open selling what’s left of the inventory.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the meantime, Anchor beer lovers are showing up in droves at the brewery to pick up cases of beer and merchandise while they still can.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s super sad. I’m somewhat not surprised after Sapporo bought them in 2017, but I’m staying hopeful someone will pick it up and take the brand forward,” San Francisco resident John Elliott told KQED between sips of Anchor Steam at the taproom. “It’s a huge part of being in the city and growing up in California.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"The 127-year-old San Francisco brewery, along with its taproom, is slated to close on Aug.1.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1690329547,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":19,"wordCount":909},"headData":{"title":"How San Francisco's Anchor Brewing Company Could Still Stay Open | KQED","description":"The 127-year-old San Francisco brewery, along with its taproom, is slated to close on Aug.1.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"How San Francisco's Anchor Brewing Company Could Still Stay Open","datePublished":"2023-07-25T23:38:05.000Z","dateModified":"2023-07-25T23:59:07.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"Y","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"source":"Food","sourceUrl":"/food/","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11956482/san-franciscos-anchor-brewing-company-could-still-stay-open","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>More than two dozen interested buyers have come forward to \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11955487/as-anchor-brewing-closes-liquidates-business-workers-hope-for-a-miracle\">keep Anchor Brewing open\u003c/a> after it announced earlier this month that it would close by Aug. 1, according to a company spokesperson. But there are still a few steps before Anchor Brewing can go full steam ahead again, and time is ticking.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We’re open to work with anyone who is willing to work with us,” said Pedro de Sá, a representative with International Longshore and Warehouse Union Local 6, which includes workers at Anchor. “People have reached out to us, some investors who originally talked about going on their own.”\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"‘We had a lot of people reach out to us to help, individuals and investors saying they want to invest.’","name":"pullquote","attributes":{"named":{"size":"medium","align":"right","citation":"Pedro de Sá, representative, International Longshore and Warehouse Union Local 6","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Anchor Brewing workers have started laying the groundwork to purchase the business from parent company Sapporo USA and run it as an employee-owned cooperative. Sapporo is open to the idea, but there’s not much time before a state-appointed liquidator will take over the company’s assets and determine whether it will remain open.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Unionized workers at the brewery — representing about a third of the staff — are now hoping to extend that timeline as they evaluate the brewery’s worth and formulate their bid. They have selected a point person to talk through some of the logistics with the parent company, but next need to secure funding and legal representation by Aug. 1.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We want more time. The timeline right now is very short,” de Sá said. “We had a lot of people reach out to us to help, individuals and investors saying they want to invest.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Meanwhile, other offers are brewing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11956486\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11956486\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/RS66999_230714-AnchorBrewing-25-BL-KQED.jpg\" alt='People stand in a line inside a large indoor space with a banner on the wall reading \"Anchor Steam Beer.\"' width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/RS66999_230714-AnchorBrewing-25-BL-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/RS66999_230714-AnchorBrewing-25-BL-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/RS66999_230714-AnchorBrewing-25-BL-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/RS66999_230714-AnchorBrewing-25-BL-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/RS66999_230714-AnchorBrewing-25-BL-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/RS66999_230714-AnchorBrewing-25-BL-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">People wait in line to buy cases of beer and merchandise at Anchor Public Taps in San Francisco on July 14, 2023, after it was announced that Anchor Brewing will soon close. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Venture capitalist Mike Walsh, who lives in the Potrero Hill neighborhood where the brewery and taproom are located, has spent the weeks since the company’s announcement talking to fellow investors and putting together an offer.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"postid":"arts_13927137","hero":"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/2/2023/03/opensfhistory_wnp26.2055.jpg","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>One person he already tapped is Tony Foglio, who co-owned Anchor from 2010 to 2017 before he and Keith Greggor sold the company to Sapporo for about $85 million.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There’s definitely enough investor interest” to make an offer, Walsh said. “I just have to figure out that offer amount.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Both parties are now crunching the numbers. Walsh said that he plans to meet with employees at the brewery about involvement or collaboration. De Sá did not definitively say what the brewery workers would be open to, but that they “feel strongly at this point that they want to have governance and a say in how that company is run.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The latest dash for a new owner to come in and keep Anchor from shuttering comes after a long history of highs and lows for the historic brand and brewery.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11956487\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11956487\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/RS67000_230714-AnchorBrewing-26-BL-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"People sit under umbrellas in a sunny outdoors space.\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/RS67000_230714-AnchorBrewing-26-BL-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/RS67000_230714-AnchorBrewing-26-BL-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/RS67000_230714-AnchorBrewing-26-BL-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/RS67000_230714-AnchorBrewing-26-BL-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/RS67000_230714-AnchorBrewing-26-BL-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/RS67000_230714-AnchorBrewing-26-BL-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">People sit at picnic tables outside of Anchor Public Taps in San Francisco on July 14, 2023. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Anchor was founded 127 years ago, using actual steam and San Francisco’s cold temps and fog to brew its iconic Anchor Steam beverage. It survived the 1906 earthquake, prohibition and even the boom and bust cycles of the local tech sector.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In 2019, brewery workers unionized, citing the need for higher pay and better working conditions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But Anchor couldn’t make up for sliding sales and broader pandemic-fueled challenges.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“About 70% of the company’s sales were on-premises, meaning in bars or restaurants. When the pandemic came along, that just absolutely tanked sales,” said Anchor spokesperson Sam Singer.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"‘… I’m staying hopeful someone will pick it up and take the brand forward. It’s a huge part of being in the city and growing up in California.’","name":"pullquote","attributes":{"named":{"size":"medium","align":"right","citation":"John Elliott, San Francisco resident","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Singer told KQED that there is no definitive timeline for when a new owner could step in. As of publication, plans to close the taproom and brewery on Aug. 1 are moving ahead.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“After that date, it will be in the hands of the liquidator to make a determination as to whether it will remain open,” Singer said in a text message.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Production has already stopped at the brewery and Anchor Public Taps, the company’s brewpub, will stay open selling what’s left of the inventory.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the meantime, Anchor beer lovers are showing up in droves at the brewery to pick up cases of beer and merchandise while they still can.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s super sad. I’m somewhat not surprised after Sapporo bought them in 2017, but I’m staying hopeful someone will pick it up and take the brand forward,” San Francisco resident John Elliott told KQED between sips of Anchor Steam at the taproom. “It’s a huge part of being in the city and growing up in California.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11956482/san-franciscos-anchor-brewing-company-could-still-stay-open","authors":["11840"],"categories":["news_24114","news_8"],"tags":["news_32908","news_1386","news_3631","news_21212","news_18538","news_22973","news_27626","news_27993","news_38","news_6627"],"featImg":"news_11956485","label":"source_news_11956482"},"news_11939133":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11939133","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11939133","score":null,"sort":[1674730814000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"why-do-bay-area-homes-built-before-cars-have-garages","title":"Why Are There Garages on Bay Area Homes Built Before Cars Existed?","publishDate":1674730814,"format":"standard","headTitle":"Why Are There Garages on Bay Area Homes Built Before Cars Existed? | KQED","labelTerm":{},"content":"\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"http://bit.ly/3WCOI4X\">\u003cem>Read the transcript of the podcast episode here.\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>San Francisco has a lot of Victorian houses. But … why do they have garages, if they were built back before cars were popular?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Did people used to put horses and buggies in these garages? Would somebody, you know, roll their buggies in?” asks Bay Curious listener Jessica Calefati.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[baycuriouspodcastinfo]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Adam Eads has a similar question. He’s been trying to figure out why the ground floor of his house, built in 1910, is just a big open room with a dirt floor. “What would people have been doing with all this space?” he wonders. “Because it couldn’t have been easy to just build your house 12 feet off the ground without a good reason to do so.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The answer, as it turns out, is not just about architecture. It’s a window into another technology, another social structure … another time.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Keeping cool and clean\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>In the late 1800s when these houses were being built, the Port of San Francisco was teeming. Ships were bringing in all kinds of goods: lumber, coal, boots … also \u003cem>blocks of ice\u003c/em> the size of microwave ovens. This was before houses had refrigerators.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“And so the ice is coming down from the northwest, typically Tahoe and even further north,” said Pamela Larson with \u003ca href=\"https://www.sfheritage.org/\">San Francisco Heritage\u003c/a>. “You load it on your wagon, pack it full of sawdust and hay to keep it from melting. And you’re delivering it around the neighborhood.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Of course, you needed a place to keep this ice. Someplace cool, like a basement. “Milk is being delivered daily, right?” said Larson. “You want to keep your butter, your meat.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So cold storage — and storage in general, like for the piles of coal that was burned at the time — was one reason for the ground floors.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[baycuriousbug]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But also, with streets full of horses and wagons clattering about — making tons of noise and tons of horse manure — people wanted to build their living areas up above the muck and the stench. Thus, the second story entrance.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Another use for the ground floor was partying! Some houses had an entertainment room, or even a ballroom, in the basement — next to the ice, and away from the living quarters.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Behind that, Larson explained, would have been a laundry room, with big sinks and rug beaters and washboards. And in wealthier households, a laundry man would have lived in the basement, normally a Chinese man. This was the era of the \u003ca href=\"https://www.archives.gov/milestone-documents/chinese-exclusion-act\">Chinese Exclusion Act\u003c/a>. Racism was a federal policy, and with few employment opportunities, Chinese men often turned to physically demanding laundry work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11939159\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1920px\">\u003cimg decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11939159\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/01/IMG_0666_crop.jpg\" alt=\"A laundry room in a 1880s Victorian house. It includes three wash basins, a wringer and a washboard.\" width=\"1920\" height=\"1245\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/01/IMG_0666_crop.jpg 1920w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/01/IMG_0666_crop-800x519.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/01/IMG_0666_crop-1020x661.jpg 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/01/IMG_0666_crop-160x104.jpg 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/01/IMG_0666_crop-1536x996.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Laundry was a large, painstaking chore before the advent of the washing machine. \u003ccite>(Katherine Monahan/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>So the ground floors were originally used for the technology of the times and, in the middle- and upper-class households, for the workers who used that technology. But then came a new technology.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Ground floors get a new purpose\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>By the 1920s, cars were getting really popular in the Bay Area. Coal heat was turning into gas heat, and iceboxes into refrigerators. New houses were built with garages for those cars. And the old Victorians?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“These are all just wood-framed houses, right?” said Larson. “They’re not hooked to anything. They’re just sitting on a foundation.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>People lifted up Victorians using pulleys and levers, and built garages underneath. And then just set the houses back down on top.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Or, if the ground floor was tall enough, they just cut a driveway down to it and installed a garage door leading to the old storage space. And that’s why you see such steeply slanted driveways sometimes around the Bay Area.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Who knows, maybe these spaces will take on yet another use in the future, when the next technology comes along.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[baycuriousquestion]\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"What were the ground levels used for in some of the Bay Area's oldest homes?","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1700531871,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":true,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":23,"wordCount":671},"headData":{"title":"Why Are There Garages on Bay Area Homes Built Before Cars Existed? | KQED","description":"What were the ground levels used for in some of the Bay Area's oldest homes?","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"Why Are There Garages on Bay Area Homes Built Before Cars Existed?","datePublished":"2023-01-26T11:00:14.000Z","dateModified":"2023-11-21T01:57:51.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"Y","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"source":"Bay Curious","sourceUrl":"https://baycurious.org/","audioUrl":"https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/EBCBFA/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC2069771420.mp3?updated=1674685332","nprByline":"Katherine Monahan","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","showOnAuthorArchivePages":"Yes","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11939133/why-do-bay-area-homes-built-before-cars-have-garages","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"http://bit.ly/3WCOI4X\">\u003cem>Read the transcript of the podcast episode here.\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>San Francisco has a lot of Victorian houses. But … why do they have garages, if they were built back before cars were popular?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Did people used to put horses and buggies in these garages? Would somebody, you know, roll their buggies in?” asks Bay Curious listener Jessica Calefati.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003caside class=\"alignleft utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__bayCuriousPodcastShortcode__bayCurious\">\u003cimg src=https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/bayCuriousLogo.png alt=\"Bay Curious Podcast\" />\n \u003ca href=\"/news/series/baycurious\">Bay Curious\u003c/a> is a podcast that answers your questions about the Bay Area.\n Subscribe on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/bay-curious/id1172473406\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Apple Podcasts\u003c/a>,\n \u003ca href=\"http://www.npr.org/podcasts/500557090/bay-curious\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">NPR One\u003c/a> or your favorite podcast platform.\u003c/aside>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Adam Eads has a similar question. He’s been trying to figure out why the ground floor of his house, built in 1910, is just a big open room with a dirt floor. “What would people have been doing with all this space?” he wonders. “Because it couldn’t have been easy to just build your house 12 feet off the ground without a good reason to do so.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The answer, as it turns out, is not just about architecture. It’s a window into another technology, another social structure … another time.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Keeping cool and clean\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>In the late 1800s when these houses were being built, the Port of San Francisco was teeming. Ships were bringing in all kinds of goods: lumber, coal, boots … also \u003cem>blocks of ice\u003c/em> the size of microwave ovens. This was before houses had refrigerators.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“And so the ice is coming down from the northwest, typically Tahoe and even further north,” said Pamela Larson with \u003ca href=\"https://www.sfheritage.org/\">San Francisco Heritage\u003c/a>. “You load it on your wagon, pack it full of sawdust and hay to keep it from melting. And you’re delivering it around the neighborhood.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Of course, you needed a place to keep this ice. Someplace cool, like a basement. “Milk is being delivered daily, right?” said Larson. “You want to keep your butter, your meat.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So cold storage — and storage in general, like for the piles of coal that was burned at the time — was one reason for the ground floors.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003caside class=\"alignleft utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__bayCuriousPodcastShortcode__bayCurious\">\u003cimg src=https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/bayCuriousLogo.png alt=\"Bay Curious Podcast\" />\n What do you wonder about the Bay Area, its culture or people that you want KQED to investigate?\n \u003ca href=\"/news/series/baycurious\">Ask Bay Curious.\u003c/a>\u003c/aside>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But also, with streets full of horses and wagons clattering about — making tons of noise and tons of horse manure — people wanted to build their living areas up above the muck and the stench. Thus, the second story entrance.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Another use for the ground floor was partying! Some houses had an entertainment room, or even a ballroom, in the basement — next to the ice, and away from the living quarters.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Behind that, Larson explained, would have been a laundry room, with big sinks and rug beaters and washboards. And in wealthier households, a laundry man would have lived in the basement, normally a Chinese man. This was the era of the \u003ca href=\"https://www.archives.gov/milestone-documents/chinese-exclusion-act\">Chinese Exclusion Act\u003c/a>. Racism was a federal policy, and with few employment opportunities, Chinese men often turned to physically demanding laundry work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11939159\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1920px\">\u003cimg decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11939159\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/01/IMG_0666_crop.jpg\" alt=\"A laundry room in a 1880s Victorian house. It includes three wash basins, a wringer and a washboard.\" width=\"1920\" height=\"1245\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/01/IMG_0666_crop.jpg 1920w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/01/IMG_0666_crop-800x519.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/01/IMG_0666_crop-1020x661.jpg 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/01/IMG_0666_crop-160x104.jpg 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/01/IMG_0666_crop-1536x996.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Laundry was a large, painstaking chore before the advent of the washing machine. \u003ccite>(Katherine Monahan/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>So the ground floors were originally used for the technology of the times and, in the middle- and upper-class households, for the workers who used that technology. But then came a new technology.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Ground floors get a new purpose\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>By the 1920s, cars were getting really popular in the Bay Area. Coal heat was turning into gas heat, and iceboxes into refrigerators. New houses were built with garages for those cars. And the old Victorians?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“These are all just wood-framed houses, right?” said Larson. “They’re not hooked to anything. They’re just sitting on a foundation.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>People lifted up Victorians using pulleys and levers, and built garages underneath. And then just set the houses back down on top.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Or, if the ground floor was tall enough, they just cut a driveway down to it and installed a garage door leading to the old storage space. And that’s why you see such steeply slanted driveways sometimes around the Bay Area.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Who knows, maybe these spaces will take on yet another use in the future, when the next technology comes along.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"baycuriousquestion","attributes":{"named":{"label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11939133/why-do-bay-area-homes-built-before-cars-have-garages","authors":["byline_news_11939133"],"programs":["news_33523"],"series":["news_17986"],"categories":["news_8","news_33520"],"tags":["news_17657","news_3631","news_32336"],"featImg":"news_11939143","label":"source_news_11939133"},"news_11933439":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11933439","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11933439","score":null,"sort":[1669892434000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"homes-for-all-richmonds-1950s-attempt-at-integrated-housing","title":"Homes for All: Richmond's 1950s Attempt at Integrated Housing","publishDate":1669892434,"format":"image","headTitle":"Homes for All: Richmond’s 1950s Attempt at Integrated Housing | KQED","labelTerm":{},"content":"\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"http://bit.ly/3GZjPUc\">\u003cem>Read the transcript here.\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You would be hard-pressed to get lost in Parchester Village, a small neighborhood in North Richmond. There’s a big loop road encircling the neighborhood of some 400 homes — \u003ca href=\"https://www.eichlernetwork.com/article/king-flat-tops\">many of which feature the original flat-top roof design\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The idea [for Parchester Village] was spearheaded by a group of ministers,” said longtime Village resident Maxine Henagan. “And the streets are named after each one of those ministers that participated on the committee that would spearhead getting the land.” \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Those ministers also organized to sell the homes.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[baycuriouspodcastinfo]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>One local minister in particular, Rev. Guthrie Williams, led the charge in brokering a deal with a local politician and a wealthy landowner to create quality housing for Black Americans at a time when racist lending and housing policies, like redlining, barred Black people from buying homes. The result was the first tract home development in Northern California explicitly open to Black residents.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Wartime workers organize to demand rights\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>During World War II, many Black Americans left the South and moved to Richmond for jobs in the shipyards. When the war ended, the wartime housing projects where they lived were scheduled to be torn down.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The postwar period saw a real frenzy of building communities and homes and developments all around in the suburban areas,” said Shirley Ann Moore, professor emerita of history at \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Sacramento State University\u003c/span>. “But those developments that were going up were restricted on a racial basis.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Moore’s book, “\u003ca href=\"https://www.ucpress.edu/book/9780520229204/to-place-our-deeds\">To Place Our Deeds: The African American Community in Richmond, California, 1910–1963\u003c/a>,” details the Black community’s impact on Richmond before and after World War II. According to Moore, city officials hoped all newcomers who moved for the war industries, Black people especially, would go back to where they came from after the war. Instead, the working-class Black community in Richmond grew, becoming an influential political force in the area — a political force that was not only exercising its power in Richmond, but across the country, paving the road for the modern civil rights movement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Those working-class Black people took the lead,” said Moore. “People who had been presumed not to be aware of the political currents around them were really in the vanguard.” Enter Rev. Guthrie Williams, a carpenter by trade who, in 1949, started organizing to end housing and workplace discrimination in Richmond. A self-described “persistent, cantankerous cuss,” Williams created the small, Richmond-based Universal Non-Partisan League to help bridge the racial divide.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11933547\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11933547\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Guthrie-Williams-in-newspaper-800x532.jpg\" alt=\"A man wearing glasses next to a table with family photographs\" width=\"800\" height=\"532\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Guthrie-Williams-in-newspaper-800x532.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Guthrie-Williams-in-newspaper-1020x678.jpg 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Guthrie-Williams-in-newspaper-160x106.jpg 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Guthrie-Williams-in-newspaper-1536x1021.jpg 1536w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Guthrie-Williams-in-newspaper-1920x1276.jpg 1920w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Guthrie-Williams-in-newspaper.jpg 1988w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Rev. Guthrie Williams in a photo featured in the Independent and Gazette in December 1980. \u003ccite>(Mike Musielski for the Independent and Gazette/Courtesy of Richmond Museum of History and Culture)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“He garnered a lot of support from those people living in the housing projects, and they became very valuable voters. And white politicians began to see that, too,” Moore said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Amos Hinkley was one of those white politicians, a City Council member running for reelection in 1949. He approached Williams and the League to support his campaign. Williams agreed in exchange for Hinkley’s commitment to create permanent housing for Black people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Hinkley was backed by Fred Parr, a wealthy developer who was key in building the Richmond shipping terminal and Kaiser shipyards. Parr brought lots of industry to the Bay Area, like the Ford Motor Company plant in Richmond, and owned 800 acres of industrial land in North Richmond.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11933530\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 246px\">\u003cimg decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\" wp-image-11933530\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Fred-Parr-1.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"246\" height=\"317\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Fred-Parr-1.jpg 386w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Fred-Parr-1-160x206.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 246px) 100vw, 246px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Portrait of Fred Parr in 1952. \u003ccite>(The Henry Ford)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Hinkley arranged a meeting among Parr, Williams and another local minister to talk about how some of Parr’s land could be used for housing for the Black community.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the 2002 documentary “\u003ca href=\"https://richmond.granicus.com/MediaPlayer.php?view_id=6&clip_id=312\">An Exploration of Our History: The Story of North Richmond\u003c/a>,” then-Richmond City Manager Isiah Turner, now deceased, recounted the deal: “[Parr] agreed that if the ministers could help them sell the homes for this land out here that he owned, that he would support working with the Black community so we could buy these homes.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11933536\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11933536\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Mackay-John-and-Dick-and-Earl-Smith-1-cropped-800x533.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"533\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Mackay-John-and-Dick-and-Earl-Smith-1-cropped-800x533.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Mackay-John-and-Dick-and-Earl-Smith-1-cropped-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Mackay-John-and-Dick-and-Earl-Smith-1-cropped-160x107.jpg 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Mackay-John-and-Dick-and-Earl-Smith-1-cropped-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Mackay-John-and-Dick-and-Earl-Smith-1-cropped.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Builder Earl W. ‘Flat Top’ Smith (fourth from left) with neighborhood ministers, including Rev. L. Thomas (fourth from right, rear) and other developers at Parchester Village in Richmond. Smith, famous for his modern, affordable home-building — with flat-top roofs — designed and built the homes for Parchester Village. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of the El Cerrito Historical Society)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>At the end of the meeting, Williams had a commitment from Parr to back the housing development that would become Parchester Village.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Envisioning a community for ‘all Americans’\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>When Parchester Village opened in 1950, it was advertised as “a home community for all Americans.” Early sales reflected that goal, with 30% of homes purchased by white buyers and the remaining 70% by Black and Asian Americans. That’s according to Fred Parr’s nephew, John Parr Cox, who recalled the housing project in a \u003ca href=\"https://oac.cdlib.org/view?docId=hb329005h7;NAAN=13030&doc.view=frames&chunk.id=0&toc.id=0&brand=oac4\">1986 interview with the UC Berkeley Oral History Project\u003c/a>. But “within a couple of years, the community changed completely to all Black,” Parr Cox said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11933533\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 278px\">\u003cimg decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\" wp-image-11933533\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Parchester-Flyer-Yellow-scaled-e1669768391728-800x1067.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"278\" height=\"371\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Parchester-Flyer-Yellow-scaled-e1669768391728-800x1067.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Parchester-Flyer-Yellow-scaled-e1669768391728-1020x1360.jpg 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Parchester-Flyer-Yellow-scaled-e1669768391728-160x213.jpg 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Parchester-Flyer-Yellow-scaled-e1669768391728-1152x1536.jpg 1152w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Parchester-Flyer-Yellow-scaled-e1669768391728-1536x2048.jpg 1536w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Parchester-Flyer-Yellow-scaled-e1669768391728.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 278px) 100vw, 278px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Archival partial photocopy of the original advertisement for the sale of Parchester Village homes. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of Richmond Public Library Richmond Collection)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“White flight” was common at the time, wherein white families fled neighborhoods where people of color were moving in. Some Black Richmondites held the more cynical view that Fred Parr never intended for an integrated community to work out, said Moore, of \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Sacramento State University\u003c/span>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Regardless of the intentions of the white community, Rev. Williams told the Independent and Gazette in 1980 that he wanted Parchester to be an “All-American project.” He added, “We hoped to set a standard of perfection in fair play in housing for the Bay Area.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>While Williams’ dream of a racially integrated community didn’t work out, the Black people who moved in still created something special. The political pressure Williams and others placed on city leaders to build Parchester Village was just the beginning of what became an active, organized neighborhood association that supported a vibrant community known for its safety, high-achieving children and regular block-party barbecues.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>‘We never locked our doors’\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“It was a village that everybody’s home was your home,” Charleszetta Pruitt remembered. Pruitt is a former resident whose family was one of the first to settle in Parchester. “You were cared about,” she said. “They provided for you.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11933554\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"wp-image-11933554 size-medium\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Charleszetta-Pruitt-family-1-800x516.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"516\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Charleszetta-Pruitt-family-1-800x516.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Charleszetta-Pruitt-family-1-1020x658.jpg 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Charleszetta-Pruitt-family-1-160x103.jpg 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Charleszetta-Pruitt-family-1-1536x991.jpg 1536w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Charleszetta-Pruitt-family-1-2048x1322.jpg 2048w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Charleszetta-Pruitt-family-1-1920x1239.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Charleszetta Pruitt’s parents lounging on their lawn on Johnson Drive in Parchester Village while Pruitt, age 7, plays with a friend, circa 1954. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of Charleszetta Pruitt)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“It felt like family, like a safe place,” recalled KQED announcer Michelle Henagan, who also grew up in Parchester Village. “Like coming home from school, you knew all your friends are going to be going around the neighborhood.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Michelle’s mother, Maxine Henagan, has lived in the Village since 1974 and takes pride in its history. “I think it’s exciting to be part of that history and knowing that the neighborhood where I live is actually organized and spearheaded by African American people.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11933527\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"wp-image-11933527 size-medium\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Maxine-Henagan-cropped-800x559.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"559\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Maxine-Henagan-cropped-800x559.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Maxine-Henagan-cropped-1020x713.jpg 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Maxine-Henagan-cropped-160x112.jpg 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Maxine-Henagan-cropped-1536x1073.jpg 1536w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Maxine-Henagan-cropped-2048x1431.jpg 2048w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Maxine-Henagan-cropped-1920x1342.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Parchester Village resident Maxine Henagan at home, holding up the T-shirt she designed for the Village’s 45th anniversary reunion celebration. \u003ccite>(Ariana Proehl/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The political organizing that Rev. Williams exemplified continued as the community grew. Parchester Village was built on unincorporated land, so residents lobbied the county to get services like streetlights and sewage through nearby San Pablo. They also sued the city of Richmond in 1950 to give their children access to Richmond’s public schools. It was one of many battles residents fought and won over the years. Eventually, they petitioned to be formally incorporated into Richmond, which was approved in 1963.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Resident Goretha Johnson, who currently serves as the Parchester Village Neighborhood Council president, reflected on growing up in the Village during those early years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We were really self-contained,” she said. “We had our own store, our own gas station, our own nightclub. We were a community of many different professions because at that time they wouldn’t allow Black people to buy in other neighborhoods. So we had plumbers, laborers, teachers, doctors. Just everybody came together into one place. And everybody took pride in their property.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11933526\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11933526\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Hart-and-Johnson-edited-800x600.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"600\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Hart-and-Johnson-edited-800x600.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Hart-and-Johnson-edited-1020x765.jpg 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Hart-and-Johnson-edited-160x120.jpg 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Hart-and-Johnson-edited-1536x1152.jpg 1536w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Hart-and-Johnson-edited-2048x1536.jpg 2048w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Hart-and-Johnson-edited-1920x1440.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Parchester Village residents Lori Hart (left) and Goretha Johnson at Johnson’s home. \u003ccite>(Ariana Proehl/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Resident Lori Hart, a friend of Johnson’s, also grew up in Parchester Village and lives there now. She remembered the Village’s political prowess well: “We used to be extremely politically involved. I remember hearing about how they would go down to the City Council and raise some Cain if something was not right.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Hart was a big fan of the neighborhood’s bookmobile, which came by regularly to lend books. “It was anticipated and expected you would be somebody growing up,” Hart said. “We were taught and encouraged to read and we were taught to respect one another.” She added that the Village “was a space of safety. We never locked our doors.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Change comes to Parchester\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Changes started creeping into the community in the 1970s. After the Fair Housing Act of 1968, more Bay Area neighborhoods started to integrate. The Village was no longer the only place in Richmond where Black families could buy, so they started branching out into other parts of the city. By the 1980s, many of the local businesses had long since closed. And then the crack epidemic hit the community hard.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[emailsignup newslettername=\"baycurious\" align=\"right\"]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“That’s when the landscape really changed,” Johnson said. “It just kind of wiped through everybody’s home. It’s like everybody was touched with somebody who had got involved with that.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the early 1990s, a neighborhood teenager was shot and killed in a drive-by shooting. His death rocked the Parchester community. In response, Marilyn Dillihant, then a county alcohol and drug prevention specialist who grew up in Parchester, reasserted the Village’s values and established a youth association to give young people positive things to do.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>By the early 2000s, many original homeowners still called Parchester home, and the block-party barbecues were still in effect. But, like any neighborhood that evolves over time, it was becoming harder to hold onto its founding essence. It was also harder to hold onto homes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>High housing costs have pushed many Black families out of the Bay Area, putting \u003ca href=\"https://bayareaequityatlas.org/node/65531\">current Black homeownership rates at just 34%\u003c/a>, according to data analysis by Bay Area Equity Atlas. That’s a decline that’s mirrored in Parchester, where it’s now only 20% Black, according to the 2020 census. Twenty years ago, the population was almost 80% Black.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>With fewer residents who have direct ties to the tight-knit, open-door community of Parchester’s heyday, the strong sense of community it once cultivated has waned.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>The Parchester spirit lives on\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Eli Moore, program director with \u003ca href=\"https://belonging.berkeley.edu/\">UC Berkeley’s Othering and Belonging Institute\u003c/a> who co-authored \u003ca href=\"https://belonging.berkeley.edu/sites/default/files/haasinstitute_housingandbelongingrichmond_psprint_jan11.pdf\">a 2017 housing study in Richmond (PDF)\u003c/a>, said recent community efforts in Richmond remind him of Parchester Village.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I’m thinking about \u003ca href=\"https://www.richmondland.org/potowski-av\">Richmond Land\u003c/a> and the community land trust that they’ve set up and the way that they’re really working with residents to build new models for collectively owning and developing housing,” Moore said. “And in that way, becoming more self-sufficient and creating platforms for the community to take action — with city support or without city support — to meet their needs.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Stories like Parchester’s also fuel conversations Moore and the institute have had around belonging in the Bay Area. “How do folks hold onto the place that they love and live in? It’s belonging to place — and that doesn’t just mean geography,” Moore said. “It means the connections to neighbors, to faith communities, to schools and elders and friends and community. It’s belonging to a collective, to a history, to a set of memories, as well.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Despite all the changes, Hart and Johnson are committed to bringing back some of the classic Parchester Village spirit to the community and feeding that sense of belonging Moore described. The Neighborhood Center, one of the last standing original Parchester institutions, was recently renovated and can once again be a hub for meetings and events.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11933523\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11933523\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Neighborhood-Center-800x450.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"450\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Neighborhood-Center-800x450.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Neighborhood-Center-1020x574.jpg 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Neighborhood-Center-160x90.jpg 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Neighborhood-Center-1536x864.jpg 1536w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Neighborhood-Center.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The Parchester Village Neighborhood Center. \u003ccite>(Ariana Proehl/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“We’re looking forward to that,” Hart said. “Trying to restore some of the glory of the old and just bring back some of the remembrance.” And, if Hart has her way, maybe bring a roller derby, too.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[baycuriousquestion]\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"Richmond's Black community struck a deal with politicians to build integrated housing long before the Fair Housing Act. Instead, a thriving Black community grew.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1700768286,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":true,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":42,"wordCount":2200},"headData":{"title":"Homes for All: Richmond's 1950s Attempt at Integrated Housing | KQED","description":"Richmond's Black community struck a deal with politicians to build integrated housing long before the Fair Housing Act. Instead, a thriving Black community grew.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"Homes for All: Richmond's 1950s Attempt at Integrated Housing","datePublished":"2022-12-01T11:00:34.000Z","dateModified":"2023-11-23T19:38:06.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"Y","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"source":"Bay Curious","sourceUrl":"https://kqed.org/baycurious","audioUrl":"https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/EBCBFA/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC8366243996.mp3?updated=1669854238","subhead":"Parchester Village in Richmond, California tried to build integrated housing in the 1950s. Here's what happened.","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11933439/homes-for-all-richmonds-1950s-attempt-at-integrated-housing","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"http://bit.ly/3GZjPUc\">\u003cem>Read the transcript here.\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You would be hard-pressed to get lost in Parchester Village, a small neighborhood in North Richmond. There’s a big loop road encircling the neighborhood of some 400 homes — \u003ca href=\"https://www.eichlernetwork.com/article/king-flat-tops\">many of which feature the original flat-top roof design\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The idea [for Parchester Village] was spearheaded by a group of ministers,” said longtime Village resident Maxine Henagan. “And the streets are named after each one of those ministers that participated on the committee that would spearhead getting the land.” \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Those ministers also organized to sell the homes.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003caside class=\"alignleft utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__bayCuriousPodcastShortcode__bayCurious\">\u003cimg src=https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/bayCuriousLogo.png alt=\"Bay Curious Podcast\" />\n \u003ca href=\"/news/series/baycurious\">Bay Curious\u003c/a> is a podcast that answers your questions about the Bay Area.\n Subscribe on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/bay-curious/id1172473406\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Apple Podcasts\u003c/a>,\n \u003ca href=\"http://www.npr.org/podcasts/500557090/bay-curious\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">NPR One\u003c/a> or your favorite podcast platform.\u003c/aside>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>One local minister in particular, Rev. Guthrie Williams, led the charge in brokering a deal with a local politician and a wealthy landowner to create quality housing for Black Americans at a time when racist lending and housing policies, like redlining, barred Black people from buying homes. The result was the first tract home development in Northern California explicitly open to Black residents.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Wartime workers organize to demand rights\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>During World War II, many Black Americans left the South and moved to Richmond for jobs in the shipyards. When the war ended, the wartime housing projects where they lived were scheduled to be torn down.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The postwar period saw a real frenzy of building communities and homes and developments all around in the suburban areas,” said Shirley Ann Moore, professor emerita of history at \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Sacramento State University\u003c/span>. “But those developments that were going up were restricted on a racial basis.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Moore’s book, “\u003ca href=\"https://www.ucpress.edu/book/9780520229204/to-place-our-deeds\">To Place Our Deeds: The African American Community in Richmond, California, 1910–1963\u003c/a>,” details the Black community’s impact on Richmond before and after World War II. According to Moore, city officials hoped all newcomers who moved for the war industries, Black people especially, would go back to where they came from after the war. Instead, the working-class Black community in Richmond grew, becoming an influential political force in the area — a political force that was not only exercising its power in Richmond, but across the country, paving the road for the modern civil rights movement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Those working-class Black people took the lead,” said Moore. “People who had been presumed not to be aware of the political currents around them were really in the vanguard.” Enter Rev. Guthrie Williams, a carpenter by trade who, in 1949, started organizing to end housing and workplace discrimination in Richmond. A self-described “persistent, cantankerous cuss,” Williams created the small, Richmond-based Universal Non-Partisan League to help bridge the racial divide.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11933547\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11933547\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Guthrie-Williams-in-newspaper-800x532.jpg\" alt=\"A man wearing glasses next to a table with family photographs\" width=\"800\" height=\"532\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Guthrie-Williams-in-newspaper-800x532.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Guthrie-Williams-in-newspaper-1020x678.jpg 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Guthrie-Williams-in-newspaper-160x106.jpg 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Guthrie-Williams-in-newspaper-1536x1021.jpg 1536w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Guthrie-Williams-in-newspaper-1920x1276.jpg 1920w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Guthrie-Williams-in-newspaper.jpg 1988w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Rev. Guthrie Williams in a photo featured in the Independent and Gazette in December 1980. \u003ccite>(Mike Musielski for the Independent and Gazette/Courtesy of Richmond Museum of History and Culture)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“He garnered a lot of support from those people living in the housing projects, and they became very valuable voters. And white politicians began to see that, too,” Moore said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Amos Hinkley was one of those white politicians, a City Council member running for reelection in 1949. He approached Williams and the League to support his campaign. Williams agreed in exchange for Hinkley’s commitment to create permanent housing for Black people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Hinkley was backed by Fred Parr, a wealthy developer who was key in building the Richmond shipping terminal and Kaiser shipyards. Parr brought lots of industry to the Bay Area, like the Ford Motor Company plant in Richmond, and owned 800 acres of industrial land in North Richmond.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11933530\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 246px\">\u003cimg decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\" wp-image-11933530\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Fred-Parr-1.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"246\" height=\"317\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Fred-Parr-1.jpg 386w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Fred-Parr-1-160x206.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 246px) 100vw, 246px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Portrait of Fred Parr in 1952. \u003ccite>(The Henry Ford)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Hinkley arranged a meeting among Parr, Williams and another local minister to talk about how some of Parr’s land could be used for housing for the Black community.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the 2002 documentary “\u003ca href=\"https://richmond.granicus.com/MediaPlayer.php?view_id=6&clip_id=312\">An Exploration of Our History: The Story of North Richmond\u003c/a>,” then-Richmond City Manager Isiah Turner, now deceased, recounted the deal: “[Parr] agreed that if the ministers could help them sell the homes for this land out here that he owned, that he would support working with the Black community so we could buy these homes.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11933536\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11933536\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Mackay-John-and-Dick-and-Earl-Smith-1-cropped-800x533.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"533\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Mackay-John-and-Dick-and-Earl-Smith-1-cropped-800x533.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Mackay-John-and-Dick-and-Earl-Smith-1-cropped-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Mackay-John-and-Dick-and-Earl-Smith-1-cropped-160x107.jpg 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Mackay-John-and-Dick-and-Earl-Smith-1-cropped-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Mackay-John-and-Dick-and-Earl-Smith-1-cropped.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Builder Earl W. ‘Flat Top’ Smith (fourth from left) with neighborhood ministers, including Rev. L. Thomas (fourth from right, rear) and other developers at Parchester Village in Richmond. Smith, famous for his modern, affordable home-building — with flat-top roofs — designed and built the homes for Parchester Village. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of the El Cerrito Historical Society)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>At the end of the meeting, Williams had a commitment from Parr to back the housing development that would become Parchester Village.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Envisioning a community for ‘all Americans’\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>When Parchester Village opened in 1950, it was advertised as “a home community for all Americans.” Early sales reflected that goal, with 30% of homes purchased by white buyers and the remaining 70% by Black and Asian Americans. That’s according to Fred Parr’s nephew, John Parr Cox, who recalled the housing project in a \u003ca href=\"https://oac.cdlib.org/view?docId=hb329005h7;NAAN=13030&doc.view=frames&chunk.id=0&toc.id=0&brand=oac4\">1986 interview with the UC Berkeley Oral History Project\u003c/a>. But “within a couple of years, the community changed completely to all Black,” Parr Cox said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11933533\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 278px\">\u003cimg decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\" wp-image-11933533\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Parchester-Flyer-Yellow-scaled-e1669768391728-800x1067.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"278\" height=\"371\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Parchester-Flyer-Yellow-scaled-e1669768391728-800x1067.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Parchester-Flyer-Yellow-scaled-e1669768391728-1020x1360.jpg 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Parchester-Flyer-Yellow-scaled-e1669768391728-160x213.jpg 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Parchester-Flyer-Yellow-scaled-e1669768391728-1152x1536.jpg 1152w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Parchester-Flyer-Yellow-scaled-e1669768391728-1536x2048.jpg 1536w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Parchester-Flyer-Yellow-scaled-e1669768391728.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 278px) 100vw, 278px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Archival partial photocopy of the original advertisement for the sale of Parchester Village homes. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of Richmond Public Library Richmond Collection)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“White flight” was common at the time, wherein white families fled neighborhoods where people of color were moving in. Some Black Richmondites held the more cynical view that Fred Parr never intended for an integrated community to work out, said Moore, of \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Sacramento State University\u003c/span>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Regardless of the intentions of the white community, Rev. Williams told the Independent and Gazette in 1980 that he wanted Parchester to be an “All-American project.” He added, “We hoped to set a standard of perfection in fair play in housing for the Bay Area.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>While Williams’ dream of a racially integrated community didn’t work out, the Black people who moved in still created something special. The political pressure Williams and others placed on city leaders to build Parchester Village was just the beginning of what became an active, organized neighborhood association that supported a vibrant community known for its safety, high-achieving children and regular block-party barbecues.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>‘We never locked our doors’\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“It was a village that everybody’s home was your home,” Charleszetta Pruitt remembered. Pruitt is a former resident whose family was one of the first to settle in Parchester. “You were cared about,” she said. “They provided for you.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11933554\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"wp-image-11933554 size-medium\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Charleszetta-Pruitt-family-1-800x516.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"516\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Charleszetta-Pruitt-family-1-800x516.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Charleszetta-Pruitt-family-1-1020x658.jpg 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Charleszetta-Pruitt-family-1-160x103.jpg 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Charleszetta-Pruitt-family-1-1536x991.jpg 1536w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Charleszetta-Pruitt-family-1-2048x1322.jpg 2048w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Charleszetta-Pruitt-family-1-1920x1239.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Charleszetta Pruitt’s parents lounging on their lawn on Johnson Drive in Parchester Village while Pruitt, age 7, plays with a friend, circa 1954. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of Charleszetta Pruitt)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“It felt like family, like a safe place,” recalled KQED announcer Michelle Henagan, who also grew up in Parchester Village. “Like coming home from school, you knew all your friends are going to be going around the neighborhood.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Michelle’s mother, Maxine Henagan, has lived in the Village since 1974 and takes pride in its history. “I think it’s exciting to be part of that history and knowing that the neighborhood where I live is actually organized and spearheaded by African American people.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11933527\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"wp-image-11933527 size-medium\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Maxine-Henagan-cropped-800x559.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"559\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Maxine-Henagan-cropped-800x559.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Maxine-Henagan-cropped-1020x713.jpg 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Maxine-Henagan-cropped-160x112.jpg 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Maxine-Henagan-cropped-1536x1073.jpg 1536w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Maxine-Henagan-cropped-2048x1431.jpg 2048w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Maxine-Henagan-cropped-1920x1342.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Parchester Village resident Maxine Henagan at home, holding up the T-shirt she designed for the Village’s 45th anniversary reunion celebration. \u003ccite>(Ariana Proehl/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The political organizing that Rev. Williams exemplified continued as the community grew. Parchester Village was built on unincorporated land, so residents lobbied the county to get services like streetlights and sewage through nearby San Pablo. They also sued the city of Richmond in 1950 to give their children access to Richmond’s public schools. It was one of many battles residents fought and won over the years. Eventually, they petitioned to be formally incorporated into Richmond, which was approved in 1963.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Resident Goretha Johnson, who currently serves as the Parchester Village Neighborhood Council president, reflected on growing up in the Village during those early years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We were really self-contained,” she said. “We had our own store, our own gas station, our own nightclub. We were a community of many different professions because at that time they wouldn’t allow Black people to buy in other neighborhoods. So we had plumbers, laborers, teachers, doctors. Just everybody came together into one place. And everybody took pride in their property.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11933526\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11933526\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Hart-and-Johnson-edited-800x600.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"600\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Hart-and-Johnson-edited-800x600.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Hart-and-Johnson-edited-1020x765.jpg 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Hart-and-Johnson-edited-160x120.jpg 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Hart-and-Johnson-edited-1536x1152.jpg 1536w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Hart-and-Johnson-edited-2048x1536.jpg 2048w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Hart-and-Johnson-edited-1920x1440.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Parchester Village residents Lori Hart (left) and Goretha Johnson at Johnson’s home. \u003ccite>(Ariana Proehl/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Resident Lori Hart, a friend of Johnson’s, also grew up in Parchester Village and lives there now. She remembered the Village’s political prowess well: “We used to be extremely politically involved. I remember hearing about how they would go down to the City Council and raise some Cain if something was not right.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Hart was a big fan of the neighborhood’s bookmobile, which came by regularly to lend books. “It was anticipated and expected you would be somebody growing up,” Hart said. “We were taught and encouraged to read and we were taught to respect one another.” She added that the Village “was a space of safety. We never locked our doors.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Change comes to Parchester\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Changes started creeping into the community in the 1970s. After the Fair Housing Act of 1968, more Bay Area neighborhoods started to integrate. The Village was no longer the only place in Richmond where Black families could buy, so they started branching out into other parts of the city. By the 1980s, many of the local businesses had long since closed. And then the crack epidemic hit the community hard.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"emailsignup","attributes":{"named":{"newslettername":"baycurious","align":"right","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“That’s when the landscape really changed,” Johnson said. “It just kind of wiped through everybody’s home. It’s like everybody was touched with somebody who had got involved with that.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the early 1990s, a neighborhood teenager was shot and killed in a drive-by shooting. His death rocked the Parchester community. In response, Marilyn Dillihant, then a county alcohol and drug prevention specialist who grew up in Parchester, reasserted the Village’s values and established a youth association to give young people positive things to do.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>By the early 2000s, many original homeowners still called Parchester home, and the block-party barbecues were still in effect. But, like any neighborhood that evolves over time, it was becoming harder to hold onto its founding essence. It was also harder to hold onto homes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>High housing costs have pushed many Black families out of the Bay Area, putting \u003ca href=\"https://bayareaequityatlas.org/node/65531\">current Black homeownership rates at just 34%\u003c/a>, according to data analysis by Bay Area Equity Atlas. That’s a decline that’s mirrored in Parchester, where it’s now only 20% Black, according to the 2020 census. Twenty years ago, the population was almost 80% Black.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>With fewer residents who have direct ties to the tight-knit, open-door community of Parchester’s heyday, the strong sense of community it once cultivated has waned.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>The Parchester spirit lives on\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Eli Moore, program director with \u003ca href=\"https://belonging.berkeley.edu/\">UC Berkeley’s Othering and Belonging Institute\u003c/a> who co-authored \u003ca href=\"https://belonging.berkeley.edu/sites/default/files/haasinstitute_housingandbelongingrichmond_psprint_jan11.pdf\">a 2017 housing study in Richmond (PDF)\u003c/a>, said recent community efforts in Richmond remind him of Parchester Village.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I’m thinking about \u003ca href=\"https://www.richmondland.org/potowski-av\">Richmond Land\u003c/a> and the community land trust that they’ve set up and the way that they’re really working with residents to build new models for collectively owning and developing housing,” Moore said. “And in that way, becoming more self-sufficient and creating platforms for the community to take action — with city support or without city support — to meet their needs.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Stories like Parchester’s also fuel conversations Moore and the institute have had around belonging in the Bay Area. “How do folks hold onto the place that they love and live in? It’s belonging to place — and that doesn’t just mean geography,” Moore said. “It means the connections to neighbors, to faith communities, to schools and elders and friends and community. It’s belonging to a collective, to a history, to a set of memories, as well.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Despite all the changes, Hart and Johnson are committed to bringing back some of the classic Parchester Village spirit to the community and feeding that sense of belonging Moore described. The Neighborhood Center, one of the last standing original Parchester institutions, was recently renovated and can once again be a hub for meetings and events.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11933523\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11933523\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Neighborhood-Center-800x450.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"450\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Neighborhood-Center-800x450.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Neighborhood-Center-1020x574.jpg 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Neighborhood-Center-160x90.jpg 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Neighborhood-Center-1536x864.jpg 1536w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Neighborhood-Center.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The Parchester Village Neighborhood Center. \u003ccite>(Ariana Proehl/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“We’re looking forward to that,” Hart said. “Trying to restore some of the glory of the old and just bring back some of the remembrance.” And, if Hart has her way, maybe bring a roller derby, too.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"baycuriousquestion","attributes":{"named":{"label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11933439/homes-for-all-richmonds-1950s-attempt-at-integrated-housing","authors":["11296"],"programs":["news_33523"],"series":["news_17986"],"categories":["news_8","news_33520"],"tags":["news_3631","news_25329","news_579","news_236"],"featImg":"news_11933654","label":"source_news_11933439"},"news_11932690":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11932690","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11932690","score":null,"sort":[1669035719000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"why-doesnt-bart-go-more-places","title":"Why Doesn't BART Go More Places?","publishDate":1669035719,"format":"standard","headTitle":"Why Doesn’t BART Go More Places? | KQED","labelTerm":{},"content":"\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://bit.ly/3AlGTIB\">\u003cem>Read a transcript of this episode here.\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>UC Berkeley doctoral candidate Ziad Shafi has lived in several parts of the U.S. and in Europe. In Washington, D.C., he was impressed with the metro system, which took him most places he wanted to go. Same thing in many European cities. So, when he moved to the Bay Area and started riding BART, he was a little confused. Look at any BART map and you’ll see lines converging from Contra Costa and Alameda counties on a single corridor through the Transbay Tube across San Francisco and down the Peninsula to San Francisco International Airport and Millbrae.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Metros and subways in European cities tend to be spread out, hitting every city corner,” Ziad said. “Why do four of the five BART lines (red, yellow, green, blue) go all the way from West Oakland to Daly City? It seems like a mistake.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Ziad submitted his question to Bay Curious and it won \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/podcasts/baycurious/\">a voting round\u003c/a>, so a lot of people have been wondering why BART was designed this way.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[baycuriouspodcastinfo]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Of course, what one person sees as a mistake can be another’s very deliberate strategy. And in this case, BART’s route is the product of what public officials, business interests and planners in the 1950s thought a rapid transit system should be. They planned BART as a system with a single main line on its route down to the Peninsula. (Yes, BART was originally envisioned as a system that would also run west through northern and parts of western San Francisco to the Golden Gate Bridge and beyond, but that plan died in 1962 when Marin County officials opted out of the system.)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The growing dominance of the automobile — and the massive highway construction that went along with it — lay behind the choice of a main line system whose central mission was to get commuters and shoppers from outlying areas to and from downtown San Francisco and Oakland.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A \u003ca href=\"https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23314106/redundancy-in-public-transit-1980-adler-chapter-ix.pdf\">1955 status report (PDF)\u003c/a> prepared for the commission overseeing BART planning argued that the only way a regional rapid transit system would persuade drivers to get out of their cars was if service was fast, frequent and comfortable. Patronage would depend on having widely spaced stations, each with a huge parking lot or easy bus access.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside label=\"More Bay Curious BART Episodes\" link1=\"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/why-are-bart-trains-so-loud/id1172473406?i=1000392016987&ign-itscg=30200S&ign-itsct=podcast_box,Why Are BART Trains So Loud?\" link2=\"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/youre-really-really-curious-about-bart/id1172473406?i=1000464113096&ign-itscg=30200S&ign-itsct=podcast_box,You're Really Really Curious About BART\"]Planners contrasted that with what they termed a “neighborhood system,” one that would be within walking distance of most Bay Area homes, and which would require lots of train lines and lots of stops. While that kind of service might be accessible, the frequency of stops and longer waits between trains would mean it was slower — and thus unlikely to woo drivers who were believed to value speed and personal convenience above all.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The foregoing considerations compel in our minds a recommendation for a main line, trunk system, even without taking into account its much lower capital and operating costs as compared to a neighborhood system,” the 1955 memo said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11932714\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003ca href=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/GettyImages-1318535223-scaled.jpg\">\u003cimg decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11932714\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/GettyImages-1318535223-800x997.jpg\" alt=\"A 1970 aerial view of freeway and rapid transit construction in Oakland, California.\" width=\"800\" height=\"997\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/GettyImages-1318535223-800x997.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/GettyImages-1318535223-1020x1271.jpg 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/GettyImages-1318535223-160x199.jpg 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/GettyImages-1318535223-1233x1536.jpg 1233w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/GettyImages-1318535223-1644x2048.jpg 1644w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/GettyImages-1318535223-1920x2392.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Aerial view of the Grove-Shafter Freeway and Bay Area Rapid Transit MacArthur Station construction on Aug. 29, 1970, in Oakland. \u003ccite>(Russ Reed, from plane flown by Warren Boggess/MediaNews Group-Oakland Tribune via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Now, one shouldn’t forget that there was — and is — transit that ties into BART on both sides of the bay. In San Francisco, we’re talking about Muni, mostly. And in the East Bay, we’re talking about AC Transit. If you add those network maps to the rather skeletal BART system, transit looks much more robust — though yes, you’re required to jump from one operator to another to get to your destination.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There are a couple of important historical notes to touch upon regarding Muni and the possibility of more rapid transit in San Francisco.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>San Francisco rejects new subway lines\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>City officials had started touting the possibility of citywide subway service as far back as the first decade of the 20th century. Those initiatives were moved to the back burner several times — by “no” votes from the electorate, World War II and, later, by the belief that with BART on the way, such a system might be redundant. The last serious attempt to turn that idea into reality came in 1966.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Proposition B on the city’s November ballot that year included a $96.5 million bond issue that would help pay for construction of three new rapid transit subways across the city. The new routes — one to the Richmond District, one to the Sunset, one to the San Francisco State neighborhood by way of Twin Peaks — would take advantage of BART’s two-level subway tunnel under Market Street and make it possible to reach downtown in 20 minutes from anywhere along the line.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The measure, which would require tax increases, needed a two-thirds vote to pass. It garnered only a 57% “yes” vote. The plan was never revived.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11932710\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003ca href=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Screen-Shot-2022-11-17-at-3.35.12-PM.png\">\u003cimg decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11932710\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Screen-Shot-2022-11-17-at-3.35.12-PM-800x613.png\" alt=\"A 1966 newspaper map showing proposed routes for San Francisco rapid transit.\" width=\"800\" height=\"613\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Screen-Shot-2022-11-17-at-3.35.12-PM-800x613.png 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Screen-Shot-2022-11-17-at-3.35.12-PM-1020x782.png 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Screen-Shot-2022-11-17-at-3.35.12-PM-160x123.png 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Screen-Shot-2022-11-17-at-3.35.12-PM-1536x1177.png 1536w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Screen-Shot-2022-11-17-at-3.35.12-PM.png 1730w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A map the San Francisco Examiner printed just before the November 1966 vote on a bond issue to fund a Muni rapid transit network in San Francisco. The caption read: “Here’s a look at the overall transit plan showing the six major high-speed subways and bus lines. Routes 1, 4 and 6 would be financed by Proposition B. Passage of Proposition B at the Nov. 8 elections qualify the Muni for federal aid to build No. 2 and No. 2. BART is building No. 5.” \u003ccite>(San Francisco Examiner via Newspapers.com)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Jason Henderson, a San Francisco State University professor of geography who has written extensively on the city’s transportation politics, said in his 2013 book “\u003ca href=\"https://geog.sfsu.edu/publication/street-fight-politics-mobility-san-francisco\">Street Fight\u003c/a>” that the measure failed for a variety of reasons: a distaste for higher taxes and fear that the new subways would spur unwanted dense development. Voters were unconvinced the new transit plan, which would scrap the existing J, K, L, M and N streetcar lines, would be an improvement on Muni’s existing network. Henderson wrote:\u003c/p>\n\u003cblockquote>\u003cp>“Some neighborhood groups were opposed to the proposal because the plan included restructuring of the bus routes so that the buses fed into the rapid transit trunk lines. … Passengers’ actual travel times would be higher with the transfer and restructuring of routes. The transit plan of 1966 discontinued almost all electric trolley bus service, replacing it with a diesel bus fleet. Some neighborhood groups opposed the proposal on these grounds because in San Francisco, with its many hills, diesel buses performed especially poorly and were extremely noisy compared to electric buses.”\u003c/p>\u003c/blockquote>\n\u003cp>But that’s the past. Is a denser, more efficient transit system — the kind our question-asker Ziad talked about — in our future?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In an interview with Bay Curious, Henderson said that in order to “decarbonize” rapidly enough to head off the worst effects of climate change, staggering levels of new investment will be necessary to build a regional rail system and interim systems like busways where it might be too expensive or time-consuming to build train lines.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“In Northern California, we’re a region that should be tied together by a train system that rivals or exceeds the freeway system we have,” Henderson said. “I think we could spend the next generation building that. And yes, it would cost hundreds of billions of dollars, but that’s what we’ve got to spend to address the climate issue.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Making current system more efficient\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>A regional rail system is coming — eventually. BART and other agencies are working on \u003ca href=\"https://link21program.org/en\">Link21\u003c/a>, an effort to refine a plan for a second transbay rail crossing, and building out improved train service for the “megaregion” stretching to Sacramento and the northern San Joaquin Valley.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11932707\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003ca href=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Capitol-Corridor-Alviso.jpeg\">\u003cimg decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11932707\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Capitol-Corridor-Alviso-800x533.jpeg\" alt=\"A passenger train reflected in a trackside puddle at sunset.\" width=\"800\" height=\"533\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Capitol-Corridor-Alviso-800x533.jpeg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Capitol-Corridor-Alviso-1020x680.jpeg 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Capitol-Corridor-Alviso-160x107.jpeg 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Capitol-Corridor-Alviso-1536x1024.jpeg 1536w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Capitol-Corridor-Alviso-1920x1280.jpeg 1920w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Capitol-Corridor-Alviso.jpeg 2000w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Amtrak California’s Capitol Corridor — seen here at Alviso on the south end of San Francisco Bay — is among the partners in the Link21 program to create improved regional rail service. \u003ccite>(Max Camden/Link21-BART)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>But like other big transportation projects in our region — \u003ca href=\"https://omny.fm/shows/kqed-segmented-audio/san-franciscos-central-subway-opens-for-limited-se\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">San Francisco’s Central Subway\u003c/a>, BART’s planned extension through downtown San José to Santa Clara, the planned extension of Caltrain to the Salesforce Transit Center, among others — a second transbay crossing promises to be not only expensive, but very slow in moving from plan to reality. Link21’s estimated date for completion is 2039.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Given the urgency of climate change and the role that clean transportation can play in providing a solution, Henderson is one of many people impatient to see progress.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We gotta move fast,” he said. “We’ve got to be scaling up and rolling this stuff out this decade and in the early part of the ’30s if we’re gonna really seriously take on this climate issue. And we need to be inspiring the rest of the country.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[baycuriousquestion]\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"The Bay Area Rapid Transit System (BART) was designed from the beginning to be a 'trunk line' that would bring commuters and shoppers into Oakland and San Francisco from the suburbs.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1700531939,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":true,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":27,"wordCount":1596},"headData":{"title":"Why Doesn't BART Go More Places? | KQED","description":"The Bay Area Rapid Transit System (BART) was designed from the beginning to be a 'trunk line' that would bring commuters and shoppers into Oakland and San Francisco from the suburbs.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"Why Doesn't BART Go More Places?","datePublished":"2022-11-21T13:01:59.000Z","dateModified":"2023-11-21T01:58:59.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"Y","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"source":"Bay Curious","sourceUrl":"https://www.kqed.org/podcasts/baycurious","audioUrl":"https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC6753928462.mp3?updated=1668636444","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","path":"/news/11932690/why-doesnt-bart-go-more-places","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://bit.ly/3AlGTIB\">\u003cem>Read a transcript of this episode here.\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>UC Berkeley doctoral candidate Ziad Shafi has lived in several parts of the U.S. and in Europe. In Washington, D.C., he was impressed with the metro system, which took him most places he wanted to go. Same thing in many European cities. So, when he moved to the Bay Area and started riding BART, he was a little confused. Look at any BART map and you’ll see lines converging from Contra Costa and Alameda counties on a single corridor through the Transbay Tube across San Francisco and down the Peninsula to San Francisco International Airport and Millbrae.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Metros and subways in European cities tend to be spread out, hitting every city corner,” Ziad said. “Why do four of the five BART lines (red, yellow, green, blue) go all the way from West Oakland to Daly City? It seems like a mistake.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Ziad submitted his question to Bay Curious and it won \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/podcasts/baycurious/\">a voting round\u003c/a>, so a lot of people have been wondering why BART was designed this way.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003caside class=\"alignleft utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__bayCuriousPodcastShortcode__bayCurious\">\u003cimg src=https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/bayCuriousLogo.png alt=\"Bay Curious Podcast\" />\n \u003ca href=\"/news/series/baycurious\">Bay Curious\u003c/a> is a podcast that answers your questions about the Bay Area.\n Subscribe on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/bay-curious/id1172473406\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Apple Podcasts\u003c/a>,\n \u003ca href=\"http://www.npr.org/podcasts/500557090/bay-curious\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">NPR One\u003c/a> or your favorite podcast platform.\u003c/aside>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Of course, what one person sees as a mistake can be another’s very deliberate strategy. And in this case, BART’s route is the product of what public officials, business interests and planners in the 1950s thought a rapid transit system should be. They planned BART as a system with a single main line on its route down to the Peninsula. (Yes, BART was originally envisioned as a system that would also run west through northern and parts of western San Francisco to the Golden Gate Bridge and beyond, but that plan died in 1962 when Marin County officials opted out of the system.)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The growing dominance of the automobile — and the massive highway construction that went along with it — lay behind the choice of a main line system whose central mission was to get commuters and shoppers from outlying areas to and from downtown San Francisco and Oakland.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A \u003ca href=\"https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23314106/redundancy-in-public-transit-1980-adler-chapter-ix.pdf\">1955 status report (PDF)\u003c/a> prepared for the commission overseeing BART planning argued that the only way a regional rapid transit system would persuade drivers to get out of their cars was if service was fast, frequent and comfortable. Patronage would depend on having widely spaced stations, each with a huge parking lot or easy bus access.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"label":"More Bay Curious BART Episodes ","link1":"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/why-are-bart-trains-so-loud/id1172473406?i=1000392016987&ign-itscg=30200S&ign-itsct=podcast_box,Why Are BART Trains So Loud?","link2":"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/youre-really-really-curious-about-bart/id1172473406?i=1000464113096&ign-itscg=30200S&ign-itsct=podcast_box,You're Really Really Curious About BART"},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Planners contrasted that with what they termed a “neighborhood system,” one that would be within walking distance of most Bay Area homes, and which would require lots of train lines and lots of stops. While that kind of service might be accessible, the frequency of stops and longer waits between trains would mean it was slower — and thus unlikely to woo drivers who were believed to value speed and personal convenience above all.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The foregoing considerations compel in our minds a recommendation for a main line, trunk system, even without taking into account its much lower capital and operating costs as compared to a neighborhood system,” the 1955 memo said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11932714\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003ca href=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/GettyImages-1318535223-scaled.jpg\">\u003cimg decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11932714\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/GettyImages-1318535223-800x997.jpg\" alt=\"A 1970 aerial view of freeway and rapid transit construction in Oakland, California.\" width=\"800\" height=\"997\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/GettyImages-1318535223-800x997.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/GettyImages-1318535223-1020x1271.jpg 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/GettyImages-1318535223-160x199.jpg 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/GettyImages-1318535223-1233x1536.jpg 1233w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/GettyImages-1318535223-1644x2048.jpg 1644w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/GettyImages-1318535223-1920x2392.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Aerial view of the Grove-Shafter Freeway and Bay Area Rapid Transit MacArthur Station construction on Aug. 29, 1970, in Oakland. \u003ccite>(Russ Reed, from plane flown by Warren Boggess/MediaNews Group-Oakland Tribune via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Now, one shouldn’t forget that there was — and is — transit that ties into BART on both sides of the bay. In San Francisco, we’re talking about Muni, mostly. And in the East Bay, we’re talking about AC Transit. If you add those network maps to the rather skeletal BART system, transit looks much more robust — though yes, you’re required to jump from one operator to another to get to your destination.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There are a couple of important historical notes to touch upon regarding Muni and the possibility of more rapid transit in San Francisco.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>San Francisco rejects new subway lines\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>City officials had started touting the possibility of citywide subway service as far back as the first decade of the 20th century. Those initiatives were moved to the back burner several times — by “no” votes from the electorate, World War II and, later, by the belief that with BART on the way, such a system might be redundant. The last serious attempt to turn that idea into reality came in 1966.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Proposition B on the city’s November ballot that year included a $96.5 million bond issue that would help pay for construction of three new rapid transit subways across the city. The new routes — one to the Richmond District, one to the Sunset, one to the San Francisco State neighborhood by way of Twin Peaks — would take advantage of BART’s two-level subway tunnel under Market Street and make it possible to reach downtown in 20 minutes from anywhere along the line.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The measure, which would require tax increases, needed a two-thirds vote to pass. It garnered only a 57% “yes” vote. The plan was never revived.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11932710\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003ca href=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Screen-Shot-2022-11-17-at-3.35.12-PM.png\">\u003cimg decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11932710\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Screen-Shot-2022-11-17-at-3.35.12-PM-800x613.png\" alt=\"A 1966 newspaper map showing proposed routes for San Francisco rapid transit.\" width=\"800\" height=\"613\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Screen-Shot-2022-11-17-at-3.35.12-PM-800x613.png 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Screen-Shot-2022-11-17-at-3.35.12-PM-1020x782.png 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Screen-Shot-2022-11-17-at-3.35.12-PM-160x123.png 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Screen-Shot-2022-11-17-at-3.35.12-PM-1536x1177.png 1536w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Screen-Shot-2022-11-17-at-3.35.12-PM.png 1730w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A map the San Francisco Examiner printed just before the November 1966 vote on a bond issue to fund a Muni rapid transit network in San Francisco. The caption read: “Here’s a look at the overall transit plan showing the six major high-speed subways and bus lines. Routes 1, 4 and 6 would be financed by Proposition B. Passage of Proposition B at the Nov. 8 elections qualify the Muni for federal aid to build No. 2 and No. 2. BART is building No. 5.” \u003ccite>(San Francisco Examiner via Newspapers.com)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Jason Henderson, a San Francisco State University professor of geography who has written extensively on the city’s transportation politics, said in his 2013 book “\u003ca href=\"https://geog.sfsu.edu/publication/street-fight-politics-mobility-san-francisco\">Street Fight\u003c/a>” that the measure failed for a variety of reasons: a distaste for higher taxes and fear that the new subways would spur unwanted dense development. Voters were unconvinced the new transit plan, which would scrap the existing J, K, L, M and N streetcar lines, would be an improvement on Muni’s existing network. Henderson wrote:\u003c/p>\n\u003cblockquote>\u003cp>“Some neighborhood groups were opposed to the proposal because the plan included restructuring of the bus routes so that the buses fed into the rapid transit trunk lines. … Passengers’ actual travel times would be higher with the transfer and restructuring of routes. The transit plan of 1966 discontinued almost all electric trolley bus service, replacing it with a diesel bus fleet. Some neighborhood groups opposed the proposal on these grounds because in San Francisco, with its many hills, diesel buses performed especially poorly and were extremely noisy compared to electric buses.”\u003c/p>\u003c/blockquote>\n\u003cp>But that’s the past. Is a denser, more efficient transit system — the kind our question-asker Ziad talked about — in our future?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In an interview with Bay Curious, Henderson said that in order to “decarbonize” rapidly enough to head off the worst effects of climate change, staggering levels of new investment will be necessary to build a regional rail system and interim systems like busways where it might be too expensive or time-consuming to build train lines.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“In Northern California, we’re a region that should be tied together by a train system that rivals or exceeds the freeway system we have,” Henderson said. “I think we could spend the next generation building that. And yes, it would cost hundreds of billions of dollars, but that’s what we’ve got to spend to address the climate issue.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Making current system more efficient\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>A regional rail system is coming — eventually. BART and other agencies are working on \u003ca href=\"https://link21program.org/en\">Link21\u003c/a>, an effort to refine a plan for a second transbay rail crossing, and building out improved train service for the “megaregion” stretching to Sacramento and the northern San Joaquin Valley.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11932707\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003ca href=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Capitol-Corridor-Alviso.jpeg\">\u003cimg decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11932707\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Capitol-Corridor-Alviso-800x533.jpeg\" alt=\"A passenger train reflected in a trackside puddle at sunset.\" width=\"800\" height=\"533\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Capitol-Corridor-Alviso-800x533.jpeg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Capitol-Corridor-Alviso-1020x680.jpeg 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Capitol-Corridor-Alviso-160x107.jpeg 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Capitol-Corridor-Alviso-1536x1024.jpeg 1536w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Capitol-Corridor-Alviso-1920x1280.jpeg 1920w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/Capitol-Corridor-Alviso.jpeg 2000w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Amtrak California’s Capitol Corridor — seen here at Alviso on the south end of San Francisco Bay — is among the partners in the Link21 program to create improved regional rail service. \u003ccite>(Max Camden/Link21-BART)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>But like other big transportation projects in our region — \u003ca href=\"https://omny.fm/shows/kqed-segmented-audio/san-franciscos-central-subway-opens-for-limited-se\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">San Francisco’s Central Subway\u003c/a>, BART’s planned extension through downtown San José to Santa Clara, the planned extension of Caltrain to the Salesforce Transit Center, among others — a second transbay crossing promises to be not only expensive, but very slow in moving from plan to reality. Link21’s estimated date for completion is 2039.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Given the urgency of climate change and the role that clean transportation can play in providing a solution, Henderson is one of many people impatient to see progress.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We gotta move fast,” he said. “We’ve got to be scaling up and rolling this stuff out this decade and in the early part of the ’30s if we’re gonna really seriously take on this climate issue. And we need to be inspiring the rest of the country.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"baycuriousquestion","attributes":{"named":{"label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11932690/why-doesnt-bart-go-more-places","authors":["222"],"programs":["news_33523"],"series":["news_17986"],"categories":["news_28250","news_8","news_33520","news_1397"],"tags":["news_269","news_3631","news_1764"],"featImg":"news_11932694","label":"source_news_11932690"}},"programsReducer":{"possible":{"id":"possible","title":"Possible","info":"Possible is hosted by entrepreneur Reid Hoffman and writer Aria Finger. Together in Possible, Hoffman and Finger lead enlightening discussions about building a brighter collective future. The show features interviews with visionary guests like Trevor Noah, Sam Altman and Janette Sadik-Khan. Possible paints an optimistic portrait of the world we can create through science, policy, business, art and our shared humanity. It asks: What if everything goes right for once? How can we get there? Each episode also includes a short fiction story generated by advanced AI GPT-4, serving as a thought-provoking springboard to speculate how humanity could leverage technology for good.","airtime":"SUN 2pm","imageSrc":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Possible-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg","officialWebsiteLink":"https://www.possible.fm/","meta":{"site":"news","source":"Possible"},"link":"/radio/program/possible","subscribe":{"apple":"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/possible/id1677184070","spotify":"https://open.spotify.com/show/730YpdUSNlMyPQwNnyjp4k"}},"1a":{"id":"1a","title":"1A","info":"1A is home to the national conversation. 1A brings on great guests and frames the best debate in ways that make you think, share and engage.","airtime":"MON-THU 11pm-12am","imageSrc":"https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/04/1a.jpg","officialWebsiteLink":"https://the1a.org/","meta":{"site":"news","source":"npr"},"link":"/radio/program/1a","subscribe":{"npr":"https://rpb3r.app.goo.gl/RBrW","apple":"https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?s=143441&mt=2&id=1188724250&at=11l79Y&ct=nprdirectory","tuneIn":"https://tunein.com/radio/1A-p947376/","rss":"https://feeds.npr.org/510316/podcast.xml"}},"all-things-considered":{"id":"all-things-considered","title":"All Things Considered","info":"Every weekday, \u003cem>All Things Considered\u003c/em> hosts Robert Siegel, Audie Cornish, Ari Shapiro, and Kelly McEvers present the program's trademark mix of news, interviews, commentaries, reviews, and offbeat features. Michel Martin hosts on the weekends.","airtime":"MON-FRI 1pm-2pm, 4:30pm-6:30pm\u003cbr />SAT-SUN 5pm-6pm","imageSrc":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/All-Things-Considered-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg","officialWebsiteLink":"https://www.npr.org/programs/all-things-considered/","meta":{"site":"news","source":"npr"},"link":"/radio/program/all-things-considered"},"american-suburb-podcast":{"id":"american-suburb-podcast","title":"American Suburb: The Podcast","tagline":"The flip side of gentrification, told through one town","info":"Gentrification is changing cities across America, forcing people from neighborhoods they have long called home. Call them the displaced. Now those priced out of the Bay Area are looking for a better life in an unlikely place. American Suburb follows this migration to one California town along the Delta, 45 miles from San Francisco. But is this once sleepy suburb ready for them?","imageSrc":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/American-Suburb-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg","officialWebsiteLink":"/news/series/american-suburb-podcast","meta":{"site":"news","source":"kqed","order":"13"},"link":"/news/series/american-suburb-podcast/","subscribe":{"npr":"https://rpb3r.app.goo.gl/RBrW","apple":"https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?mt=2&id=1287748328","tuneIn":"https://tunein.com/radio/American-Suburb-p1086805/","rss":"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/series/american-suburb-podcast/feed/podcast","google":"https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vS1FJTkMzMDExODgxNjA5"}},"baycurious":{"id":"baycurious","title":"Bay Curious","tagline":"Exploring the Bay Area, one question at a time","info":"KQED’s new podcast, Bay Curious, gets to the bottom of the mysteries — both profound and peculiar — that give the Bay Area its unique identity. And we’ll do it with your help! You ask the questions. You decide what Bay Curious investigates. And you join us on the journey to find the answers.","imageSrc":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Bay-Curious-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg","imageAlt":"\"KQED Bay Curious","officialWebsiteLink":"/news/series/baycurious","meta":{"site":"news","source":"kqed","order":"4"},"link":"/podcasts/baycurious","subscribe":{"apple":"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/bay-curious/id1172473406","npr":"https://www.npr.org/podcasts/500557090/bay-curious","rss":"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/category/bay-curious-podcast/feed/podcast","google":"https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly93dzIua3FlZC5vcmcvbmV3cy9jYXRlZ29yeS9iYXktY3VyaW91cy1wb2RjYXN0L2ZlZWQvcG9kY2FzdA","stitcher":"https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/kqed/bay-curious","spotify":"https://open.spotify.com/show/6O76IdmhixfijmhTZLIJ8k"}},"bbc-world-service":{"id":"bbc-world-service","title":"BBC World Service","info":"The day's top stories from BBC News compiled twice daily in the week, once at weekends.","airtime":"MON-FRI 9pm-10pm, TUE-FRI 1am-2am","imageSrc":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/BBC-World-Service-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg","officialWebsiteLink":"https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/live:bbc_world_service","meta":{"site":"news","source":"BBC World Service"},"link":"/radio/program/bbc-world-service","subscribe":{"apple":"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/global-news-podcast/id135067274?mt=2","tuneIn":"https://tunein.com/radio/BBC-World-Service-p455581/","rss":"https://podcasts.files.bbci.co.uk/p02nq0gn.rss"}},"code-switch-life-kit":{"id":"code-switch-life-kit","title":"Code Switch / Life Kit","info":"\u003cem>Code Switch\u003c/em>, which listeners will hear in the first part of the hour, has fearless and much-needed conversations about race. Hosted by journalists of color, the show tackles the subject of race head-on, exploring how it impacts every part of society — from politics and pop culture to history, sports and more.\u003cbr />\u003cbr />\u003cem>Life Kit\u003c/em>, which will be in the second part of the hour, guides you through spaces and feelings no one prepares you for — from finances to mental health, from workplace microaggressions to imposter syndrome, from relationships to parenting. The show features experts with real world experience and shares their knowledge. Because everyone needs a little help being human.\u003cbr />\u003cbr />\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/podcasts/510312/codeswitch\">\u003cem>Code Switch\u003c/em> offical site and podcast\u003c/a>\u003cbr />\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/lifekit\">\u003cem>Life Kit\u003c/em> offical site and podcast\u003c/a>\u003cbr />","airtime":"SUN 9pm-10pm","imageSrc":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Code-Switch-Life-Kit-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg","meta":{"site":"radio","source":"npr"},"link":"/radio/program/code-switch-life-kit","subscribe":{"apple":"https://podcasts.apple.com/podcast/1112190608?mt=2&at=11l79Y&ct=nprdirectory","google":"https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cubnByLm9yZy9yc3MvcG9kY2FzdC5waHA_aWQ9NTEwMzEy","spotify":"https://open.spotify.com/show/3bExJ9JQpkwNhoHvaIIuyV","rss":"https://feeds.npr.org/510312/podcast.xml"}},"commonwealth-club":{"id":"commonwealth-club","title":"Commonwealth Club of California Podcast","info":"The Commonwealth Club of California is the nation's oldest and largest public affairs forum. As a non-partisan forum, The Club brings to the public airwaves diverse viewpoints on important topics. The Club's weekly radio broadcast - the oldest in the U.S., dating back to 1924 - is carried across the nation on public radio stations and is now podcasting. Our website archive features audio of our recent programs, as well as selected speeches from our long and distinguished history. This podcast feed is usually updated twice a week and is always un-edited.","airtime":"THU 10pm, FRI 1am","imageSrc":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Commonwealth-Club-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg","officialWebsiteLink":"https://www.commonwealthclub.org/podcasts","meta":{"site":"news","source":"Commonwealth Club of California"},"link":"/radio/program/commonwealth-club","subscribe":{"apple":"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/commonwealth-club-of-california-podcast/id976334034?mt=2","google":"https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cDovL3d3dy5jb21tb253ZWFsdGhjbHViLm9yZy9hdWRpby9wb2RjYXN0L3dlZWtseS54bWw","tuneIn":"https://tunein.com/radio/Commonwealth-Club-of-California-p1060/"}},"considerthis":{"id":"considerthis","title":"Consider This","tagline":"Make sense of the day","info":"Make sense of the day. Every weekday afternoon, Consider This helps you consider the major stories of the day in less than 15 minutes, featuring the reporting and storytelling resources of NPR. Plus, KQED’s Bianca Taylor brings you the local KQED news you need to know.","imageSrc":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Consider-This-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg","imageAlt":"Consider This from NPR and KQED","officialWebsiteLink":"/podcasts/considerthis","meta":{"site":"news","source":"kqed","order":"7"},"link":"/podcasts/considerthis","subscribe":{"apple":"https://podcasts.apple.com/podcast/id1503226625?mt=2&at=11l79Y&ct=nprdirectory","npr":"https://rpb3r.app.goo.gl/coronavirusdaily","google":"https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5ucHIub3JnLzUxMDM1NS9wb2RjYXN0LnhtbA","spotify":"https://open.spotify.com/show/3Z6JdCS2d0eFEpXHKI6WqH"}},"forum":{"id":"forum","title":"Forum","tagline":"The conversation starts here","info":"KQED’s live call-in program discussing local, state, national and international issues, as well as in-depth interviews.","airtime":"MON-FRI 9am-11am, 10pm-11pm","imageSrc":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Forum-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg","imageAlt":"KQED Forum with Mina Kim and Alexis Madrigal","officialWebsiteLink":"/forum","meta":{"site":"news","source":"kqed","order":"8"},"link":"/forum","subscribe":{"apple":"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/kqeds-forum/id73329719","google":"https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vS1FJTkM5NTU3MzgxNjMz","npr":"https://www.npr.org/podcasts/432307980/forum","stitcher":"https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/kqedfm-kqeds-forum-podcast","rss":"https://feeds.megaphone.fm/KQINC9557381633"}},"freakonomics-radio":{"id":"freakonomics-radio","title":"Freakonomics Radio","info":"Freakonomics Radio is a one-hour award-winning podcast and public-radio project hosted by Stephen Dubner, with co-author Steve Levitt as a regular guest. 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