SF’s New Archbishop Could Pressure Gay-Friendly Churches

Is the Pope picking a fight? I had to wonder that when I heard on Friday about the appointment of Salvatore Cordileone — one of the nation’s most outspoken foes of same-sex marriage — as archbishop of San Francisco, the gayest city in the country.

Salvatore Cordileone (QvisDevs)

Cordileone has called same-sex marriage a plot by “the evil one.”

And as much as anyone, he led the drive for Prop. 8, the ballot initiative that banned same-sex marriage, according to a an expose in the East Bay Express. Cordileone thought up the proposition, raised money, and put a compassionate face on the campaign, the Express reported.

When he takes his new position as archbishop of San Francisco, Cordileone will find himself surrounded by people who vehemently disagree with his position.

In conversation with KQED’s Stephanie Marti, Cordileone made it clear he won’t back down from his fight :

It’s going to be a big challenge of course but this is what the Lord has called me to do. I hope I can respond honestly and generously and effectively. He calls every generation to serve him in some particular way in terms of what’s going on in the world. That’s what it is for me.

But what exactly does this mean for an archdiocese that stretches from Hawaii to Utah?

To get a perspective, I called Bernard Schlager, executive director of the Center for Gay and Lesbian Studies in Religion and Ministry at the Pacific School of Religion in Berkeley.

“I think we know a good bit about what he will do,” said Schlager, himself a Roman Catholic. “He sees same-sex marriage as a profound moral threat.”

The only ministry to gays and lesbians that Cordileone supports is a kind of 12-step program — treating homosexuality as if it were an addiction, Schlager says.

As bishop of Oakland, Cordileone pressured the directors of the Catholic Association of Lesbian and Gay Ministries — a group formed to welcome gays and lesbians into the Catholic church — to swear an oath accepting church doctrine on homosexuality. Among Cordileone’s concerns, according to the National Catholic Reporter, were the very use of the terms “gay” and “lesbian,” which were “not in the church’s vocabulary.”

As Archbishop of San Francisco, Cordileone could put similar pressure on individual parishes that have welcomed gays and lesbians, Schlager said.

In the comments section of the California Catholic Daily, some readers called on Cordileone to “de-consecrate” the Most Holy Redeemer Church in San Francisco’s Castro neighborhood, which welcomes everyone “regardless of their background, gender, race, social status, gender identity or sexual orientation,” according to its website.

As archbishop, Cordileone could force priests to sermonize against gay marriage, too.

Schlager doesn’t think he’ll do that, because it would be too controversial.

But Thomas Sheehan, a professor of religious studies at Stanford University, isn’t so sure the archbishop will refrain from meddling in priestly business on LGBT or other issues. “He could well demand that priests reinforce the church’s teaching on contraception,” Sheehan said.

But ultimately Sheehan thinks the effects on individual Catholics will be modest. “I doubt it will affect how people practice,” he said. “People look less and less to the hierarchy.”

Related

  • Faithful

    Praise God! Thank you Benedict.

  • Anonymous

    Not to worry, San Francisco. The Episcopal Church WELCOMES EVERYONE. Come, join us, you are welcome!

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003586781928 Magdalene Prodigal

      Well everyone except those who stubbornly cling to the holy Gospel and its true teachings.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=621564747 Will Byrd

      YES!! And what a beautiful witness of Christ in the City of San Francisco the Episcopal Church continues to be!

  • Following Jesus is Hard Work

    Come as YOU are to the Episcopal Church. Our Diocese of California welcomes all….gay, straight, liberal, conservative. God’s House is big enough for us all and the Lord’s Table turns away no one. Thanks Pope Benedict for making the difference between catholic and Roman Catholic so blatantly clear.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003586781928 Magdalene Prodigal

      Yep, anything goes in the Episcopal church which can vote on its “truth” from year to year. No one will make you feel offended by any such thing as sin; in fact you can be upheld in them.

      • brad

        Yep anything goes! Whatever the flavor of the day is , forget scripture, Its so passe’.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=621564747 Will Byrd

      Thanks for this post. As an Episcopalian of only 10 years, I found out first hand that those signs which say “The Episcopal Church Welcomes You” really mean it. Contrary to the post by Magdalene Prodigal, I (who have been a Christian for most of my life), have grown in my Christian faith and relationship with God FAR more in these years than I ever did in the previous 55. I am so grateful for the presence of The Episcopal Church in my life!!

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_F2IAHXPIHLHOUKMKRFL35IJLDQ Onehit Wonder

        Yay! Now bring on the Muslim-minstress priestess and hiphop clown masses, and feel free to bring your pets — all are welcome!

    • Dave

      That’s exactly the reason why many Episcopal Church parishes are joining the Roman Catholic Church because they disagree with your stance.

  • http://www.stlukeinthefields.org/ MO

    http://www.diocal.org–the Episcopal bishop of California is a thoughtful, welcoming leader of a truly LGBT-inclusive community of churches. Find one near you–the doors are open and the people are happy to welcome you in.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_HE77HW6VL42L4BJSWOLXQWV5YE bleusmon

      Wow! This is the third invite to join the Episcopal Church I have seen in this thread. I agree; all those who argue against the teachings of the Catholic Church on this and all matters should join this church which is bleeding out its membership: 23% reduction since 2000. It needs all the help it can get, but it won’t matter in the long run. It won’t exist in another 40 years at this rate.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=621564747 Will Byrd

        Apparently Bleus, you haven’t noticed the flock fleeing the fold in the RCC church in the past few years. Take note .. the RCC is making itself less an less relevant with every passing day.

        • Mel

          Apparently you haven’t noticed that the world is much bigger than the gay enclave in which you have enclosed yourself (especially your thinking). The Catholic Church’s return to orthodoxy under Pope Benedict is yielding vocations again from men who accept the totality of Christ’s message, not just that which tickles their ears. It is the Episcopal Church that is flittering away with every new wind making itself irrelevant–but you probably never hear the jokes Catholics make about the fake church founded by the incontinent glutton who couldn’t get a divorce. And you’ve got a lot of nerve assuming and proclaiming that someone is “obviously gay”. I wonder how you would respond to one of us outside your closed circle labeling you as “obviously straight”?

          We will continue to pray for your conversion. Hopefully you can find something deeper to cling to than your sex drive.

        • Repple

          Pay little attention to the Madges and Mels who as the “good germans” can’t really think for themselves, can’t discern for themselves, and think the descendants of the Borgias hold absolute truth…. a sure way to march us all to the gas chambers.
          As a Roman Catholic I find the thoughtful and holy Episcopalian bishop of San Francisco, more emblamtic of the apostolic faith than the enforcers at the Maytag cathedral. And that Cordileone should be installed on the feast of St. Francis makes my dog vomit.

          • Malleus Dei

            No argument from me about how ugly the city’s Catholic cathedral is, but it was the very pro-gay Archbishop Quinn who is responsible for that visual blunder. Architecture aside, it’s amusing to read the desperate name-calling aimed at faithful Catholics, and the assumptions that we are all brainwashed–how little some of you know.

            Your Episcopalian bishop may be very thoughtful, but he is the thoughtful bishop of a church with no authority that was not founded by Christ. If you need to attend a weekly service that tells you whatever you want to hear, by all means, please join the Episcopal Church.

          • Repple

            But you are Blanche, you are! Not only brainwashed but masochistic as well. Yes your Excellency. may I please have another. That you’ve accepted our Archbishop Cordileone’s rhetorical fallacies as good orthodox theology rather than bigotry only proves my point. How refreshing it is to find a catholic branch of the Christian faith that addresses the faithful as Beloved and whose lead shepards are chosen by the whole of the church rather then being appointed by an absolute monarch.Given the corporate malfeasance of the hierarchy I’m not sure in what universe has the moral authority of Roman Catholic bishops amounted to more than squat. Face it Malleus our emperor has no clothes.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Richard-Bohler/100003641441664 Richard Bohler

            Why do those on the left so easily resort to name calling? Brainwashed and masochistic bigots?? Did it never occur that Christ would want a vehicle in place (the Catholic Church) to pass on His truth with His authority? (power of binding and loosing, and the keys to the Kingdom, Matt.16) Truth is not determined by a show of hands.

          • repple

            @ Bohler. Being libertarian, I wouldn’t know about namecalling. Ad hominem is not always a fallacious argument when it serves as a descriptive shortcut of the argumentative mentality and hypocrisy of one’s opponent. Archbishop Coredileone sorties into the cultural wars have led to no other conclusion but bigotry. Scripture and its exgesis would strongly suggest the opposite of what you think Jesus was proposing.The true founder of Christianity, Paul thought Peter was full of it ! Where are the present day Pauls of our church telling this Peter to knock it off. They have been all kicked out, silenced or sequestered
            History demonstrates what a distortion of Jesus’s ministry takes place when puny yes men perfumed with peity hold positions of power.
            We are surely exsisting in a similar place in history
            As for the Truth your fellow proponents of prop 8 would not agree with you as they very much believe not only Truth but your civil rights are subject to a show of hands.

          • Django

            Perhaps it would be helpful to read and meditate upon these words from your beloved St. Francis of Assisi:

            We ought also to fast and to abstain from vices and sins and from superfluity of food and drink, and be Catholic. We ought also to visit Churches frequently and to reverence clerics not for themselves, if they be sinners, but on account of their office and administration of the most holy Body and Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, which they sacrifice on the altar and receive and administer to others.
            And let us all know for certain that no one can be saved except by the Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ and by the holy words of the Lord which clerics say and announce and distribute and they alone administer, and not others.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_F2IAHXPIHLHOUKMKRFL35IJLDQ Onehit Wonder

            Yup – your as Roman Catholic as Schori.. btw, didn’t she go against her own Orthodox mother’s will, and refuse to allow the Orthodox Church – to which she belonged – to celebrate funeral prayers? How’s that for forced marches?

      • http://www.stlukeinthefields.org/ MO

        Unlike many denominations (including the RCC) that count anyone who ever darkened the door, the Episcopal Church counts members who actually show up and financially support their parishes.

        (BTW, it seems to me that Christianity was started by 12 guys in a small rented room, after their leader was executed as a political upstart…so, how important is size, really?)

        • Fred

          No, the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ, the Son of God.

          • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/CRMOF34AMDNSN5CEBGJXD2OUGM Wayne

            …and pots of boiling oil, torture chambers, murderous crusades,Inquisitions, etc, etc, etc…..

    • http://twitter.com/LaCatholicState la catholic state

      Why should people flock to the Episcopalians?! No different from secularists….just with a few bells on. A meaningless waste of time.

  • http://www.facebook.com/ray.dubuque Ray Dubuque

    The R. C. hierarchy think they are still the tyrants they used to be, and that their sheep are so docile that they CAN’T leave the church of which they have have been captive members ever since their parents made them life-long members when they were infants.

    If I could escape from the Catholic Church after 24 years of education in Catholic schools and seminaries culminating with ordination to the priesthood and a teaching position in a Catholic seminary, almost anyone can. I’m not selling anything or telling people how to live their lives. All I want to do is to help people to free themselves from the tyranny and stupidity of the Roman Catholic church, by exposing the truth about this very human, very dishonest organization at a site you can find by Googling “Jesuswouldbefurious” or “CatholicArrogance” (one word).

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003586781928 Magdalene Prodigal

      Everyone is certainly free to separate themselves from Christ!

      • http://www.stlukeinthefields.org/ MO

        Christ is not coterminous with the church, and no theologian would hold otherwise. The church is referred to as the Bride of Christ, not Christ himself.

        • theo

          Mark 10:7-8 For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh. So they are no longer two but one flesh.
          This is why the Church is also referred to as the ‘mystical body of Christ’

          • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/CRMOF34AMDNSN5CEBGJXD2OUGM Wayne

            I don’t worship the New Testament authors, most of whom (Mark, Luke, Paul, etc, etc) never even knew Christ. So I am not interested in their “teachings”. Nowhere is Christ quoted as saying that ONLY a man and a woman may marry. Simple…..He never said it! And don’t give me that Old Testament crap, until you prove that you have stoned to death at least one of your children for disobedience as it commands!

      • http://www.facebook.com/ray.dubuque Ray Dubuque

        “Everyone is certainly free to separate themselves from Christ!” which is what the R.C. hierarchy has been proving FOR CENTURIES, as I show at http://JesusWouldBeFurious.Org/

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_HE77HW6VL42L4BJSWOLXQWV5YE bleusmon

      I do not believe a word of your “history” in the Church. If you believe the authority of the Church is tyranical then you expose yourelf as a fool who knows nothing. The firstline of your second paragraph is an observable lie.
      I returned after 31 years calling the shots for myself precisely because no one person has what it takes to substitute his own desires for the judgment and teachings of the Church. I pray for you.

      • http://www.facebook.com/ray.dubuque Ray Dubuque

        Not a word of my post is a LIE, but Catholics are so used to the lies their bishops tell them all the time that they think that OTHERS lie as well.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=621564747 Will Byrd

      All joy and peace to you on your continuing journey, Ray!! Lovely post.

    • timbuktu

      Was God a tyrant when He issued the 10 Commandments?
      You taught (as a priest) in the seminary?
      No wonder our priests are so out of touch with the RCC!
      If you felt that way about the Church for such a long time, why did you stay in it?
      To Lead more people into error? How sad. All those years and you learned nothing.

      • http://www.facebook.com/ray.dubuque Ray Dubuque

        I DIDN’T stay in it, because my conscience would not allow me to be part of such dishonesty and hypocrisy. And I’ve published web sites exposing THE TRUTH about the R.C. church.

  • Elizabeth McClintic

    “When he takes his new position as archbishop of San Francisco,
    Cordileone will find himself surrounded by people who vehemently
    disagree with his position.”

    Kinda like Jesus on the Cross.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=621564747 Will Byrd

      There is nothing comparable to “Jesus on the Cross” and Cordileone who received this political appointment from Rome. I can’t quite get my head around why an obviously gay man would sacrifice his integrity and honesty for the benefits he will be entitled to in his new position. He won’t be the first gay priest, bishop, archbishop, cardinal OR Pope to be assigned or elected to this position, nor the first to give up his integrity to do so .. yet it still boggles my mind that in the Name of Christ he would do so. How dare you compare this guy to “Jesus on The Cross”? For shame!!

      • Elizabeth McClintic

        Just saying that the people around his new location disagree with him, just like those
        who surrounded the Cross, with the exception of His Blessed Mother, John
        and Mary Magdelene.

        How do you know he is gay? By the way he looks? By the way he walks? By the way he speaks? A gay man can be a holy man.

        • Billy Boy

          I am sorry Dear Elizabeth but a practicing homosexual without repentance CANNOT be holy. Holy is defined as living in the state of Sanctifying Grace(excuse the spelling) Homosexuality is definately a Mortal Sin according to the teaching authority of the Catholic Church!

          • repple

            Practice makes perfect

  • Elizabeth McClintic
  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Kenneth-Glenn-Koons/1313421958 Kenneth Glenn Koons

    As a Prot. pastor, it is time for Catholic and Prot. Christians to stand up against the DNC policies of supporting every perverse, perverted policy and stance of miscreants who want to FORCE their worldview on believers. Whether it is gay marriage, Chick, the 1st Amendment discussion on abortion in hospitals, churches or schools, the Left, which is the Dem Party has tried to transform not only America but …..the Bible, the combined Christian churches and the heritage , history and values of America. It must stop and Nov. is one chance as well as stances by Bishops, priests, pastors and rabbis. Enough.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Richard-Bohler/100003641441664 Richard Bohler

      Amen! I’m a Catholic who’s been down in the trenches fighting this battle, and I find it wonderful that my other Christian brothers and sisters have joined the fight with such vigor! Our battle lines are being shored up, and like Constantine’s army with the cross on our shields, we’ll rout the enemy under the banner “Hoc in Signo Vinces,” (by this sign you will conquer) God bless you, Brother!

      • Elizabeth McClintic

        Viva Christo Rey

        • http://www.realromancatholic.wordpress.com/ John Paul W

          Same here. Viva Cristo. Rey Viva la Virgen de Guadalupe. We need to pray for more bishops like this one. God Bless Pope Benedict.

    • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/CRMOF34AMDNSN5CEBGJXD2OUGM Wayne

      Hey Pastor….the US Constitution trumps your bible…..always has…..always will, regardless of the number of “votes” your lies produce.Just as happened with California’s bigoted Prop 8, your efforts to engraft your bible (or one of the 203 conflicting translations thereof) will be put to the sword by our rule of Law.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_LYGUGSPODDFQALP7DZO5VECZDI Therese Z

        And every time the choice is given to the people, what, over 30 states so far, the people, the PEOPLE, have chosen to vote against changing the definition of marriage to include a pair of people of the same sex.
        You seem to forget it is government BY the people and FOR the people.
        Fascist.

        • wayne

          ….living proof that bighotry is popular…..what a sad commentary on “christianity”!!!!

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Tish-Morgna/100000098075242 Tish Morgna

        When the majority had judeo/christian morality in mind, the constitution was drafted. When those opposed to the judeo/christian morality gained power, the constitution had to be changed to mean the exact opposite of what it meant before. (suddenly it is a “living document”)
        Militant homosexuals appear to be shocked that the pope would have the absolute AUDACITY to appoint a bishop loyal to Holy Mother Church. I am not surprised at their rage, they expected the Church to cower before them but now the bishops are beginning to show christian courage once more.
        The militant homosexual agenda and the Catholic Faith are mutually exclusive, the twain shall never meet in concord. One must destroy the other in individuals’ hearts and minds. THAT is why homosexualists are upset, they are no longer controlling the “debate”. They will have to get used to it.

        • repple

          Those naughty militants. Was the Church cowered before the chiffon or the the lace of the Sisters of PI. Is it cultural wars or or is it merely a fashion war as to who wears the best dress. The Church practically invented gaeity(- see MalleusDei) so rather hard to see how they are mutually exclusive. But continue on with your own manfactured rage(your slip is showing) and go ahead and play church in your own manufactured Church all you want.

    • Anonymous

      Pastor Koons: Over 90% of all Jews in America affiliate with branches of that faith that accept same-sex marriage. My congregation would perform them, if it were legal but you Christian zealot types relentlessly advocate the government to prevent it. As would many Episcopal Churches, Unitarian Churches and more.

      And, I’ll point out that no church that declines to recognize ANY marriage can, under our constitution, be forced to perform it. That includes same-sex marriages.

      So, who exactly is FORCING whose beliefs on whom?

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_F2IAHXPIHLHOUKMKRFL35IJLDQ Onehit Wonder

        meh – 90% of those Jewish branches aren’t recognized by 90% of Jews worldwide.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Richard-Bohler/100003641441664 Richard Bohler

    The Catholic Faith only seeks the salvation of souls through the love of Jesus Christ who died for ALL. The Church has been given the commission by Our Lord Himself to preach the Truth, and that’s not always what everyone always wants to hear. Truth is not determined by a show of hands.

    • repple

      Nor is the Truth handed out in an episcopal fiat devoid of reason and wrapped in anathemas from on high. The truth for Christians is embodied in the Good News not in the Constantian church model encrusted with the barnacles of power seeking and authoritarian control In paraphrasing Bishop Spong, as found in the 4th gospel Christ did not come to make us religious, nor moral, nor orthodox purveyors of the Truth but he came that they may have life abundantly.

      • Trellis Smith

        In speaking truth to power, one of the downsides is the arrogance one can assume in believing we have the truth and you don’t. In all areas but especially the political arena this will degenerate into polemics and polarization and demonization. There is little doubt that this bishop is political and has entered into the divisiveness of not only church politics but secular politics as well.
        He seems guided by an unwavering commitment that the Church’s teachings are right but how does he avoid being relationally wrong. A more accurate description is that the Pilgrim Church is not so much in possession of the Truth but is on a journey towards it and that all are called to participate on this pilgrimage. The Church may claim it participates more fully but does not denigrate nor question the sincerity of her fellow pilgrims
        The stumbling block the Archbishop faces is that from the start Church teachings literally demonize gays and lesbians categorizing them as intrinsically disordered towards evil beyond concupiscence and the Archbishop uses the rhetoric of evil in characterizing same sex unions. Furthermore the discrimination gays and lesbians face is not unjust as the Church sees it necessary to protect society. This is not an auspicious start for dialogue but a prescription for instant enmity.
        If gays and lesbians are enemies of the Church then the Archbishop and the church are commanded to love them. The first act of love must be a recognition that the burden of proof of the Church’s assessment lies with the Church which must proceed without bias and preconceptions, in concert with Scripture as interpreted within the tradition but (as recognized by Pope Benedict,) most of all with un conflicted reason as the overarching guide
        Finally the Church must arrive at discernment not within an echo chamber but with a certain humility must engage fellow pilgrims with diverse voices and perspectives,

  • Fred

    the archdiocese of SF does not “stretch from Hawaii to Utah.” It includes only the SF area. Please do some basic research about the Catholic Church before writing about it.

    • Terry

      It does too. The archbishop of SF is the “boss” of the bishops in those other diocese.

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/CRMOF34AMDNSN5CEBGJXD2OUGM Wayne

    What this man did for Prop 8 has been found to have violated the US Constitution. I don’t appreciate men in robes raping our kids and thumbing their noses at our Constitution and the hiding behind their tax exempt cross. That a bigot has been appointed to supervise pedophiles shows the relevance of this church in today’s society.

    • Malleus Dei

      Talk about hypocrisy! The John Jay study found that the vast majority of sexual abuse in the crisis you cite was perpetrated upon ADOLESCENT MALES. That’s not pedophilia. It’s homosexuality. (It’s also less than 2 percent of the priesthood) So if the pope puts his foot down about ordaining homosexuals, he’s “anti-gay”. If he continues to let them infiltrate the priesthood to discredit the Church, he’s not governing correctly. Either way, you’re not satisfied. It is people of your very own stated preference who engineered this crisis and you have the chutzpah to condemn them! Unbelievable!

      One more thing: Children are FAR more likely to be sexually abused by a public school teacher than by a Catholic priest. No wonder the gay community enjoys the support of the liberal teacher’s unions.

      • repple

        Conflation and deflection.Actually it’s called ephebophilia, and usually in the context of the ministry and usually in law it remains sexual abuse, So not exactly sure what you are trying to defend. The majority of all sexual abuse cases are caused by heterosexuals so perhaps if we rid all the professions of heterosexuals we would have a lower abuse incidence all together. The crisis in the Church is more accurately described as one of incompetent criminal governance of bishops and more precisely the Vatican ( I don’t believe they are all gay even though they engineered this crisis) and not the incidence of abuse per se. The public schools may indeed have a higher incidence but they have in place administrative procedures to deal appropriately with the abuse and not act has has the Church to its great shame, in obstruction of justice. And if by you people you mean the people of Ireland count me in!. I see no reason why our ambassador has not been recalled from the Vatican has Ireland has done to express its displeasure..
        In any event, I’m sure some of your best friends are gay but really you’re just sputtering nonsense in place of any real argument, which usually happens when you defend the indefensible.

        • Malleus Dei

          I’m not defending anything. I know people who were abused by priests and that hasn’t destroyed my Catholic faith. It simply intensified my resolve to see bad priests removed from ministry. My point was hardly to defend anything, but to point out that the vast majority of these abusers were HOMOSEXUAL Ephebophiles (your preferred term). Why did they prey on adolescents? Because they are the least likely to come forward and report it. My other point is that if less than 2 percent of the ordained priests in America were involved in actual abuse cases, but to read the boilerplate drivel flung in the average comment column, we are supposed to believe that every priest is an abuser. And, if the errant bishops (and not ALL were errant as you would have us believe) had actually obeyed Vatican directives about ordaining homosexuals, this never would have happened. No sir, I am not defending anything. I am pointing out the rank hypocrisy of the “gay community” using a basically homosexual crisis to beat the Church they hate so badly. Other forces stronger than you have tried to destroy the Church. They all failed and so will the “soft men” who are trying so desperately to discredit her now. San Francisco, you’ve finally got an authentically Catholic bishop, like it or not. Get ready. The status quo is about to get toppled.

          • repple

            Yes remove all doubt of your own malicious bigotry. Still sputtering illogical nonsense Mall, and seems you wanna take this mano a drag queen, I’d place odds on the drag queen she’s anything but soft unless there’s a bulldyke in the fight. But then little compares to the methods used by the church in the past to enforce compliance. And that is what you are defending a church and an episcopate from the pontiff on down to Cordileone engaged in persecution and unfounded discrimination of a minority that you would destroy to save and in a manner that seeks to enshrine Roman Catholic dogma into the Constitution and undermine its equal protection clause.If that is your definition of the Church then all i can say is that it’s an empty tomb and He is not there.

          • Malleus Dei

            Get over yourself. Do you have some “specifics” to cite about “persecution”?

            Unfounded discrimination? Like I said before, if the Church enforces its laws against ordaining homosexuals, She is blamed for “discrimination”, but if She is lax (like too many bishops were in the 60’s and 70’s) and lets them in (or even encourages their entry as documented in Michael Rose’s book Goodbye, Good Men) then She is blamed for permitting the kind of abuse crisis that we’ve suffered through.

            If you think calling a sin a sin is “persecution” then I suppose a psychiatrist would do you more good than reading the Catechism of the Catholic Church. I guess I’m “discriminated” against by the Church because I am not permitted to fornicate with every woman I am attracted to.

            This is degenerating into silliness. You’re stuck with Bishop Cordileone and, like it or not, he is going to govern the Church, not enable its enemies. No matter how much we debate here, nothing’s going to change that. Now excuse me, I’m going to Chick-Fil-A for a sandwich.

          • repple

            Now you’re just being resentful as you are long past the age where women would find you attractive thus safe from any danger of fornication. This is a commoni characteristic Mencken observed in Puritianlsm that of the impulse to punish the man with a superior capacity for happiness In any event the Catholic Church has long ago devalued the currency of sin to render its concept rather meaningless.At one time eating Chick a fil a was sinful on a Friday now any ole day of the week it would be sinful given your intent. However the forty mile drive to get it might count as a penance, – hell ,eating it might count .
            You continue to advance arguments that I have already reduced to the absurd leaving one to conclude you are being so willfully ignorant, beset with reflexive mindset that your are unable to engage reflectively.
            In fact not one argument of the reactionary forces in the Church has been cogently advanced even in the federal courts to defend against what the court discovered as animus and bigotry towards a minority, To the great shame of the Church the present pontiff was cited in those documents as an example of such animus.
            You know you really have to give better reasons then ” because I said so”.

          • Django

            OK Amigo. We’ve all figured out that you took the Introduction to Rhetoric class at San Jose State. Now why don’t you put your crib notes down and address what the man said?

          • repple

            Within the thread I think I have Amigo, I’m sure the fault lies in your own comprehension. Perhaps you could avail yourself of an education that you disdain.

          • repple

            Within the thread I believe I have, Amigo. You are lacking in comprehension. Perhaps you should avail yourself of an education you so readily disdain.

          • Trellis Smith

            In the US Catholic Bishop’s commissioned study on priestly child sex abuse from John Jay College. John Jay researcher Margret Smith concluded :
            We do not find a connection between homosexual identity and the increased likelihood of subsequent abuse from the data that we have right now … It’s important to separate the sexual identity and the behavior. Someone can commit sexual acts that might be of a homosexual nature but not have a homosexual identity.
            From the same article:
            In the book Mental Disorders of the New Millennium (2006), author and psychology professor Thomas Plante writes:Although the majority of clergy abuse victims are males, homosexuality cannot be blamed. First, many of the priests report that they are not homosexual. This is also true of many non-clergy sex offenders who victimize boys. Many report that they target boys for a variety of reasons that include easier access to boys … pregnancy fears with female victims … homosexuals in general have not been found to be more likely to commit sexual crimes against minors compared to heterosexuals. Sexual orientation is not predictive of sex crimes . Even Pope Benedict XVI, not exactly a liberal gay rights activist, has said the same thing:
            If one were to accept your premise despite the evidence (as it seems the Vatican has) it does not logically follow to ban all gay people from the ministry because as you yourself have noted the the majority of priests, gay and straight have been good and faithful servants who have not engaged in child abuse.I would further add that the crisis in the Church is not the child abuse in and of itself which is scandalous but that the bishops covered up, did not report the crimes to the ploice, and in many cases transferred the abusers to unsuspecting parishes to continue with their abuse. To this day there has not been a full accounting with obstructions continuing as noted in the crisis in Ireland. They cared more for the institution than the child in their care. It is this complicity that the Pope has made his apology.To maintain otherwise in the face of all credible evidence to the contrary is to assume charitably that you have misunderstood the evidence and the nature of the crisis and impact of the damage to the Church.

          • Trellis Smith

            i think it important to point out that the discouragement and prohibition against gays entering the priesthood has to do with the sincerity of the renunciation of a possible good , the married estate with another good which is the call to celibacy. In that celibacy is enforced in all estates upon gay people by the church this is not a sincere or free will choice that can be made by gay people in the context of the Church teaching. This ruling is not a reflection against the devout service of gay priests but a recognition of the tortuous route they must travel to arrive at a true vocation. Straight people who accept and have a full understanding of the implications of Church teachings for their homosexual brothers and sisters, sons and daughters are humbled in the knowledge of their own inadequacies if placed in a similar position.

  • Anonymous

    So an anti-gay hate zealot is promoted in the Catholic Church and this is news? What’s the next headline: Pope still Catholic?

  • wayne

    This “man” advanced bigotry thru prop 8. In response, our federal courts declared his efforts in violation of the Constitution of this Country. Do us the honor of those who have fought for and defended and died for our sacred Constitution…..get your filthy butt back to Rome!!!

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