Ross Mirkarimi appeared on KQED Public Radio’s Forum show this morning. In an emotional hour-long segment, Mirkarimi gave his account of the New Year’s Eve fight with his wife, Eliana Lopez, which led to his guilty plea to a misdemeanor charge of false imprisonment, his suspension as sheriff by Mayor Ed Lee, and the current attempt by Lee to remove him permanently from office for official misconduct.
The San Francisco Ethics Commission is scheduled to hold a special meeting on Apr 23 to decide whether to recommend to the Board of Supervisors that the charges against Mirkarimi be sustained. Mirkarimi would be removed from office if 9 of 11 supervisors vote to do so. Mirkarimi is also challenging the suspension and the misconduct charges in court.
You can also read or leave comments on today’s Forum segment on the show’s website.
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Here’s our audio archive of some key events in the case.
And here’s an edited transcript of today’s Forum segment with Mirkarimi:
Michael Krasny: What’s the story you want people to know?
Ross Mirkarimi: Well I absolutely appreciate this opportunity to be here with you. This has been quite a nightmare, an ordeal, and the story that I would have told Mayor Lee on more than one occasion in which I had offered, is frankly, a story that has been eating at me for nearly four months that I haven’t been able to tell.
When I entered the office the second and last time with Mayor Ed Lee, there was very little preliminary discussion except just seconds where Mayor Lee simply told me that he has offered me an ultimatum to either resign or be suspended. The meeting would have ended right there if I did not ask him how he arrived at that decision and, again, offering him the details of the story of what happened and offering him the phone number of my wife so he could get an independent account by talking with her, since I had not seen Eliana or had contact with her since January 13th
MK: You were prohibited under court orders.
RM: I am, and that’s been excruciating. But for the mayor, and anyone who is rendering a decision of this magnitude, I certainly had hoped he would take me up on the offer.
What this is about is that I made a terrible mistake on December 31st. It was at 11:45am. We were on our way to lunch from our house, in our van. We were on our way to Delfina’s Pizza on California and Fillmore, and a horrible quarrel had started between my wife and I.
It was a somewhat familiar subject, about an impending trip she was going to take to Venezuela. She’d taken one six months earlier where she and my son Theo had been away, out of the country for over two months. That was excruciating to be apart from my family, and we had agreed that there would be a plan because my wife, who hadn’t had her green card at that time, there had been some immigration issues, and my insistence that there be at least an agreement and a plan.
And in the car on our way to lunch we began to argue about that, where I was seriously misrepresented, when I heard somewhere somebody said that I said I was powerful and you cant take my son away. That was a complete distortion. What I had been quoting was California law and how strong our laws are in California about parental rights. And that escalated in the discussion.
So what I did was turn our car around, our minivan, our Dodge minivan, turned it around against my wife’s wishes. I decided not to go to lunch because I didn’t want us to be arguing in public about a very sensitive subject like that — and turn the car home, which incidentally was the basis for the plea on false imprisonment. It’s based on the fact that I turned the car around.
MK: It sounds very innocuous, as opposed to what false imprisonment sounds like.
RM: Well I’ll leave the interpretation to anybody, but you’re right, the false imprisonment analysis that I’ve been hearing from people has just been excruciating to hear.
The rest of the story is when I parked our car, I had already vented what I had to say, and so, it was off my chest and I had acted inappropriately. I swore at my wife in front of my son, I was angry that she wasn’t hearing me and I regret this terribly, but she was also extremely upset to a point where I had never seen her agitated before, in a way where it made my son extremely upset.
So as she was getting out of her passenger seat to unharness our son, who is nearly three, he was panicked, you could see the panic, and she was screaming and I reached over from the driver’s seat – still with my seatbelt on, to put my hand underneath her arm to try to guide her back into the passenger seat so we could just de-escalate this and talk this through.
It was when I put my hand underneath her arm that she got bruised, in that process. I was instinctively just inserting myself because I saw my wife upset in a way I hadn’t seen her upset, my son was just…
I thought I was being a father in a moment where I had not any premeditated thought. And I thought I was coming to – I was trying to remedy the situation.
She then goes into our house. There had been no incident outside, as what news reports had indicated, and when I just tried to decompress for a moment or two in the car, I took my seatbelt off, locked the car up, and proceeded to go in the house.
The door was locked, I knocked on the door. Eliana, with our son, unlocks the door and opens it. And the day, although strained, there was also no sequestering of my wife. She came and went as she pleased. There was no argument inside the house, there was nothing outside the house.
The characterization that she was, in essence, imprisoned in any kind of way is completely false. There were stops at the grocery store or going to a local falafel restaurant for her, for me, alternating care of Theo that day, and on the next day as well. And she decided on the next morning to go see our neighbor.
What she had informed me of, which was part of the quarrel in the car, on the late morning of December 31st, is that she had been seeing an attorney. and when I thought our conversation was about an extended stay in Venezuela, what I realized, not until the next morning, is that this was potentially a custody issue. Because it just hit me almost in an ambush kind of way is why is my wife seeing an attorney? And I had no idea who that attorney was.
MK: The irony is that now she is in Venezuela, and she’s extended her stay in Venezuela, although, as you said, she published an article really talking about her love – it was a love letter to you and to your marriage.
RM: It was a love letter and it’s the best thing I’ve received since January 13th, but you have to understand is her stay in Venezuela is something that I fully support, because to be suspended without pay, to try to break a person so that they can’t provide for their family…
MK: Well her father is ill, too, isn’t he?
RM: He has cancer, and I want them to be protected and that also goes to part of why I was so concerned and stressing my concern to her during the argument.
She’s high-profile in her own right in Venezuela, in Caracas, I’d just been elected Sheriff, there had been some very high-profile stories of kidnappings of Americans in Venezuela and of other people. I’ve been in Caracas, in Venezuela a few times and I’ve seen what security conditions are like for people in the middle-class or even above. I felt that we were being lax in not having a conversation about her taking trips to Venezuela and not thinking through the kind of, well, maybe its paranoid, maybe not, but I was doing what I thought was the right thing.
MK: But the bruise, of course, became the center of focus here and it became the center of focus in large part because a former girlfriend came forward and said that you were rough with her and that exacerbated things, and so did your statement for which you apologized in which you also said that it was taken out of context about this being a private family matter.
RM: I never said that this was a private family matter and there were so many distortions early on that that became the branding. And I have to say, you and I have talked on this program before on air as well as off and I’ve never really been that shy to the media. But the tsunami that had hit me and my family before I was even charged was so overwhelming that frankly I just shut down. It was a wipe-out.
MK: And you were ashamed, too.
RM: I was incredibly ashamed. I still am. I’m trying to muster the energy to tell the story but that’s why I’m here, because I owe the people an explanation. I’ve been a public servant seven years, proudly, of an incredible organ of government in the board of supervisors, one of the greatest districts – District 5 – I think it was a great relationship what we had.
And then I was elected Sheriff, much to the surprise of many when I was outspent by one of my chief rival by more than two-to-one, and that we won. And so I owe it.
And that’s whats been eating at me, is that while silently and privately and through the mechanics of dealing with the legal and now political administrative process, it’s finally, sort of, mustering that reserve of telling that story that hasn’t been told.
MK: Let me ask you, though. I want to get back to the ex-girlfriend. I know you have something, perhaps, to say about that that might clarify because there were two girlfriends. One that came forward and said that he’s a good guy and gentle…
RM: In fact, that was from Evelyn Nieves, where we were in a relationship for seven years…she, who I hadn’t even talked to in a while, offered that herself, which was published in the New York Times Bay Citizen, but it was never, ever, captured in the local press…
MK: What was captured was the woman who came up from Los Angeles to testify…
RM: Which I was looking forward to in the trial to really disspell. I thought it was a piling on, there was so much fabrication that had come up in this piling on that that in itself made me that much more motivated and looking forward to the trial because this piling on became so insurmountable that I had no choice but to look forward to a process, to either validate or to demystify what the truth was. And, quite frankly, allegations like that are things I take very seriously.
MK: Your wife said this is the second time this is happening and I tell Ross I want to work on this marriage, we need help. This is in the video that was released. Both of you feel at this point wanting to move forward and, well, make this marriage work.
RM: My wife has been a champion, both here and abroad, 5,000 miles away in Venezuela in wanting to repair and rebuild our repair our relationship. And I thank God and thank the heavens that every night when I go to bed and pray to be a better man and wake up i the morning to hope to aspire to that change that’s what motivates. Because I believe that through an experience like this, to go through an ordeal like this, to be turned inside out for public dissection in the court of public opinion, I can only hope that I either just completely evaporate as a person or just better myself as a father, as a man, as a husband, as a sheriff…
MK: Its all about restorative justice in a way, I suppose, is what you’ve been saying implicitly all along, which you’ve been a strong advocate of. But what does your wife mean when she says this is the second time this has happened?
RM: No incident like this has ever happened before. She is referring to a quarrel that has been familiar and intense – verbally – about the extended trips to Venezuela. There had been three, and it’s a personal matter where I failed, in the last trip that she had taken, to not go to counseling, when we both agreed that counseling was the right way to sort through our misunderstandings and differences…
MK: She kind of said in the article that you were not all that willing to go to counseling because you were caught up in the electioneering for Sheriff…
RM: True. I procrastinated. I didn’t put the priorities of my marriage and my family in a way I should have, and that culminated into what I think became an avoidable situation on December 31st.
And to be honest with you, as soon as this happened, before i was even charged, I immediately sought a therapist hoping, and not knowing that I was going to be charged, that we could begin couples counseling because the flag, obviously, was a 2 x 4 across my forehead, and yet, even though we tried unsuccessfully through the district attorney and the courts to go to couples counseling during this ordeal, where we had been rejected, I decided to use that therapist myself to go over some of these issues – issues I refer to in my statement, in my apology that I made after my plea…
MK: You’ve also been doing anger management, haven’t you?
RM: Well, its part of that.
MK: Is it helpful?
RM: Its incredibly humbling to be part of a larger caucus of men of all different ages, many who have committed very severe offenses, and not so severe. This provides a very rare perspective, whether I’m part of law enforcement, or sheriff, or not, it raises a lot of questions about how effective is our system in helping change behavior in a forward-thinking place like San Francisco.
MK: Your wife says this is a political conspiracy. She said that publicly on a couple of occasions, in fact she called it a coup d’etat or golpe de estado. Do you agree?
RM: My wife is incredibly passionate. and the tonal quality of politics in Venezuela and Caracas is a bit different. But that’s what I love about her.
From the moment she discovered on January 4th when the neighbor, without Eliana’s consent, had decided to call the police and my wife panicked trying to reach me while I was at work at City Hall, and she ran down Grove Street, to meet me late in the afternoon outside of city hall to tell me in person what happened… I did not know about any of this, about her level of contact with the neighbor, I had no idea about a video, I had no idea about what became a runaway train and she was so panicked and so scared that she was asking me, telling me, begging me to do something about this because it’s a system she’s not familiar with, and she felt there had been an orchestration.
And over the last four months, the more we have learned in our own investigation and I think just in the subpoenaing of documents and everything else, my wife has arrived at a conclusion that it’s more than just the merits of a legal case.
MK: Do you concur or agree with that? Do you say you found new things that make you inclined to believe that?
RM: Do I think politics is involved? You cant deny it. This morphed from, in some respect, what was in the Hall of Justice to City Hall now to an administrative process. But as sheriff and as a member of the Board of Supervisors, and as a former member of law enforcement working with the district attorney for nine years, carrying a weapon, graduate of the San Francisco Police Academy, class president…I’ve always said from second one that I have to believe on the system, which is why I would never interfere with the system, whether i like or dislike what the outcome of the system is, I’ve held to the point that I have to believe in the system.
MK: Well let me jump in there for a moment because there is supposed to be a hearing today on whether or not the suspension should be overturned, scheduled for Friday. Today is an initial hearing on whether Dennis Herrera, the City Attorney, ought to be involved in this. Are you going ahead with that? Because its my understanding that Dennis Herrera has brought in different counsel for the ethics committee. That would change the whole landscape.
RM: This is completely unchartered territory. This has never happened before in San Francisco, and I apologize to San Franciscans for really helping cause this unprecedented and very painful kind of event. It is subscripted and unknown. So the Ethic Commission, which constitutes a panel of five political appointees, the Mayor, the Board of Supervisors, the City Attorney, the District Attorney, and the Assessor Recorder — they each have an appointee in the ethics commission — they will hear and make a recommendation to the Board of Supervisors.
It does beg question initially that when the city attorney was assigned to guide both the Ethics Commission and represent the Mayor against me, where is that firewall of ethics and what is just and fair? And I’ll give you another example, the City Attorney has been conducting an investigation, they have the power of subpoena, whereas my attorneys and me do not. So in the question of a criminal case, in the proceedings in the Hall of Justice where there is an investigation by the district attorney, where evidence that is collected is made discoverable, in this particular case, that has not been the case.
MK: So you’re going ahead against the district attorney…
RM: Yes.
MK: San Francisco Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi…is in studio talking with us about the incident and talking about, really, the, well, he used the word tsunami. At first it was described by you, Ross, as a runaway train of innuendo and now it’s become nothing less than a tsunami…
RM: That was weeks ago, by the way. In fact it was one think tank that had calculated the number of stories that reported on me in a seven week, six week period. That was 302 stories just in the local press, compared to, say, another high-profile incident involving one of our former mayors or something else where the number was compared to 48.
So when you deal with that level of fact, and our story wasn’t being presented, that sculpts in the court of public opinion a very different scenario that we had to contend with.
MK: A couple of things that I mentioned have sculpted the story and made the narrative go a certain way also have to do with the charge of you and your wife apparently trying to convince Ivory Madison, and her husband made the charge — that the evidence should be destroyed.
RM: Yeah, I think that that was a complete fabrication and fiction. I was frankly just blown away that I saw that in an op-ed. And I know Eliana’s attorney as well as my attorney were shocked. And I looked forward to take that head-on. I believe in the process. And I believe that before I was sworn in as Sheriff and interrupted I was informed later in the day on January 4th about the existence of this, I was in such a state of shock that the only thing I could think of was “holy cow, we need some legal representation, we need an attorney.” That was my level of thinking. And my wife was panicked because she felt completely betrayed by the woman next door, who turned out, in my wife’s opinion, that I discovered not until January 1st that this was her attorney…
MK: Not a friend or neighbor that she was confiding in, she went to her in mind that I’m going to an attorney…
RM: Yes, and this had been a developing conversation that had to do with, which I did not know about…
MK: Because they said the opposite of this. They said essentially…
RM: And I’m not surprised considering the fact of how this all mushroomed without my wife’s consent and in a way that really begs the question of what happened between what happened in conversation with the next door neighbor between January 1st and January 4th. What happened in those four days when there was no call to the authorities, no call to an advocacy organization out of concern for my wife or care for her condition.
The characterization that was wrongly reported that I had whisked my wife away on a trip to Monterey was completely false. We had pre-planned that trip before December 31st. Everybody that was close to me, preparing for the inauguration, knew that we were either going to go to San Diego or go to Monterey. And then I saw in a report that when we took that trip I was trying to sequester my wife. Going to trial, we would have been able to show the reservations that had been made and the preparations but none of this was accurately reported.
MK: Well, there was an article in The Guardian that I wanted to cite by Myrna Melgar who herself was a victim of domestic abuse, who said your wife was disempowered by your neighbor, by the police, by the media, even by those who oppose domestic abuse in many ways because everybody was offering help on no level except prosecuting you. Do you agree with that assessment?
RM: I absolutely do, because in the very moment of that panic that my wife exhibited when this all erupted, that I did not know about until some time later in the day on January 4th, it was clear that she had been betrayed by the neighbor and that she was absolutely scared. I will never forget her running down Grove street, where she ran many blocks to come see me to tell me what had happened. And then it just hit me like a thunderbolt because it was hard for me to fathom just what was occurring. I’d never been on the wrong side of the law, I’ve never needed an attorney before, I’d never committed a level that I was being accused of, of this kind of act.
MK: Let me go back to this interview with Christina Flores where she says there were three incidents of verbal abuse and a fourth of physical – your former girlfriend when you allegedly grabbed her arm during an argument. Do you want to go on record on that?
RM: Sure, I think it was a fabrication and fiction. Do I think we had an argument of verbal abuse? Yes, I do. I believe that that was well reported about her contention and, as you referenced earlier, a relationship that came to a natural end before I saw Ms. Flores, Christina Marie Flores, was with Evelyn Nieves for seven years, who took it upon herself to say there had never been any kind of unwanted contact by me at all. And nobody local accentuated that.
I was looking forward to the trial, looking forward to the emails by Ms. Flores who, in essence, was trying to get across a way of getting even, trying to settle a score, that also had been reported when those emails were released. And I was looking forward to having that day. (Update: See Christina Flores’ response here.)
But, we put that case behind us and it was moving forward. Nonetheless, I walk away from any of these experiences and lessons wanting to really self-check myself making sure that nothing like this could ever happen again. So, that’s an important…
MK: It almost begins to sound, though, from some perspectives as your wife has said, that this begins to sound like some sort of conspiracy. But you have to say – Ivory Madison fabricating, her husband fabricating, Christina Flores fabricating- but these are people without political involvement in this at all.
RM: Well, I cant speak to that and you can deduce as well as anyone else what they would like. Coming to the core of what we’re talking about is that I made a terrible mistake and I took responsibility for that as it relates to me and my wife. And I did so with the plea that I did, and that plea, by the way, if for a non-violent, low-level resolution of a misdemeanor that did not inhibit my ability to be Sheriff or possess a weapon, and I entered into that with the express purpose that I would retain my position, of course, only to be confronted with another challenge as instigated by the mayor.
MK: I should also mention that the challenge that’s going forward is based on the fact that the episode occurred before assumed office, so, the idea legally is that it cant be the basis for a suspension, but also, a suspension for a misdemeanor is being argued that it does not constitute moral turpitude and is a denial of due process.
There is also a question of the language of the city charter defining official misconduct and whether that’s constitutional. I just want to get all that out there for listeners.
I also want to go to one of our listeners, here is Michael from Oakland who says “if he did not falsely imprison her, then why did he plea to it? I’m not buying this emotional minivan-driving soccer-dad act. that’s not the character of a top-cop.”
RM: Well, that is exactly the facts of what happened, and that is also the facts of what my wife speaks to, too. This isn’t a story that is just coming from me, that is part of the 15 minute experience that occurred from when our argument – did only occur in our van as we left for lunch and me turning it around. And the plea of 236 False Imprisonment on a non-violent measure is exactly what characterizes how we arrived at that. I also take responsibility for the bruise that I caused. So that is all part of that whole 15-minute ordeal and nightmare.
MK: Let me read another e-mail from Ron who says the story that Ross tells is quite different than what has been reported in the press. If Ross’ story is true, then the City Attorney, the DA, and the Mayor have been overzealous in their prosecution of Ross. The false imprisonment plea is a joke. What else I find troubling is the horrible legal representation Ross has received. Why not just come forward earlier and explain your side of the story than hide behind legal maneuvers? This seems more honest and I think more people would understand. If Ross and Eliana wish to see each other and work on their marriage, who are we to interfere?”
I’m sure you’ll agree with that last sentiment but what about his point about why not come forward from the beginning?
RM: I wish I had. I gotta tell you. One of the things that really ate at me was the notion that I said domestic violence was a private family matter. I never said that. And that became a branding that just blew me away.
And as you said in your opening, as a supervisor, and even before being supervisor, I’d been an ardent champion, enthusiastically. I think people who are elected are allies of the domestic violence advocacy community and making sure that domestic violence is extinguished in this city. I took that to heart at my seven years at the budget committee, staying late at many budget committees to fight for add-backs. I never ceased to trumpet the needs of the community, especially as chair of public safety.
So, I wish I had spoke earlier. And as I was trying to describe with you earlier, I’ve never been that insecure or shy with the press, where I grew at a comfort level to speak to the press, this walloped me to the point where I was just down. And that, on top of the advice of my attorney at the time, and I tend to agree that it was a bad decision to not speak to the press, we should have, and I regret that it didn’t happen earlier.
MK: when you did come forward and make that apology, though, publicly, and spoke about your shame and spoke about the cost that this has had on you personally, you said I’m not the person I thought I was and this is a dark world now and admitted you had anger and arrogance issues…what did you mean by saying ‘I’m not the person I thought I was’?
RM: Oh, my god. I’m destroyed inside out…
MK: You thought you were tougher, more elastic, resilient?
RM: No. I thought I was more tender, more caring, not as gruff or abrasive, not as testosterone-packed. I think that people understand who I am, I’ve never been part of any kind of machine, per se. I’ve always been a guy driven by my tenacity and determination. I’m what people call tenacious and some think that is just maybe overbearing…
MK: A euphemistic word for arrogance, perhaps? Here is one commenter who says “both Ross and his supporters suggest and continue to suggest that the sole motive for his persecution is political, what Ross believes to be political is just people’s spite towards him”. People love you or hate you, and if they hate you its because of tenacity, arrogance, and maybe those personal qualities more than political.
RM: For me it’s a survival strategy as it related to me trying to succeed in politics. I failed as a member of the Board of Supervisors in trying to cultivate relationships in a way that I think others had made it a priority with other elected and fellow supervisors. I was there to do a job. And this is a speech that I would give to staffers and interns, talking about how government doesn’t work and that it’s my determination and our opportunity to show government can work better for the people and their cause.
MK: What would be the political motivation of those who you surmise to be your political enemies? Because, really, Mike Hennessy gave you his full support and said you were allied politically….
RM: And he’s right…
MK: So why would they see you as a political enemy?
RM: Well, I don’t think the ember stopped smoldering for many who fought to support another candidate after the November election. It was a hard-fought race. We had a strong grassroots effort, under-resourced in many ways, and we had to muster the kind of energy that was people-driven. And so others that expected a different turnout…
MK: So your political enemies would be those who were defeated?
RM: Not necessarily. I can’t speak to other people’s motivations or what’s catalyzed this. Some people may just be reacting to what they read in the press, what they think is the truth, how they may feel about me even before this happened on December 31st, and others may have drawn different conclusions. So I can’t really say that there’s a smoking gun right then and there.
And that’s why when you asked me the question about the coup d’etat — everything is bubbled-up in such a way that this has been a nightmare for me and my family. But does that deter my ability from being an effective sheriff, from realizing the dream and vision that Sheriff Mike Hennessy put forward for over 30 years. And that is that we are about tpublic safety, but we’re about the power of redemption, and that’s what the criminal justice system should be in California…
MK: This is a city, though, that is known for that. Known for its liberal views on criminal justice…
RM: we could do a better job, to be honest with you.
MK: Its also known for cracking down hard on domestic violence.
RM: As it completely should, which is why I want to continue to be that champion and come with that voice and perspective that I think gives me even greater value in doing so.
MK: Let me bring in some callers and we’ll begin with Casey, good morning.
CASEY: I’m more interested in why the state is bringing forward the charges without his wife, the injured party, bringing the charges. I think it’s something the police do on a regular basis, in probably 75% of the things they prosecute and I think it’s immoral. And I wonder what the sheriff thinks about that after his case.
RM: Well, my wife never did want to bring charges. As a matter of fact, I believe it was the day after on January 5th when an inspector, or somebody from the police department had contacted her to see if everything was okay. And she took it upon herself to say everything was fine, I never wanted this to happen. She didn’t call 911. She told the inspector she would if she thought that there was any kind of danger.
What was reported by the neighbors is diametrically, profoundly different than what had been shared between Eliana and the neighbor and what Eliana then told somebody over the phone from law enforcement, or on behalf of a domestic violence advocacy organization.
MK: I think we have a neighbor of yours on here. Roy, join us.
ROY: I think he should pursue a career as a fiction writer. He sounds like a pathological liar.
RM: Just based on the severity of that comment, what can I say? And I’m sorry I’m emotional, but when it comes to my family, my son, the way they have been leveraged against me, I am emotional about it. It’s not easy for me to tell this story. I haven’t told it in four months.
When my son who was kept away from me for no reason – when one night when I was staying at Mayor Agnos’ house, he and his wife had been amazing to me allowing me to camp out there for a little bit, my wife called in a complete panic because my son had broken out in a complete rash and had respiratory problems and thought that she was going to have to rush him to the hospital to Kaiser. My immediate instinct was that I was going to help her but I had to be pulled back because of the stay-away.
It turned out to be, based on the testimony of the day-care provider the next day that due to the separation of my son and I, my son was manifesting that separation in allergic reaction. And when we went to family court, despite the interference by the DA to try to block me from seeing my son, where eventually we won and I was able to see him for two hours a day, all that reaction and the allergy and rash disappeared completely. And so, it was so painstaking that I’m still living it.
I apologize that if I’m sounding emotional and I’m not the tough guy sheriff you want me to be, I don’t think there is another way to pause
MK: You don’t have to apologize for being emotional. Let me get another caller on the line. Scott, you’re on.
SCOTT: I just wanted to thank Mr. Mirkarimi for coming on air and talking about what is going on. You have nothing to apologize about, a real man shows his emotions and is able to do that.
I just want to tell you that I’m going through the same thing and it is extremely excruciating to be away from your family. And I do think that you’re being sabotaged by the neighbor and maybe your wife was just emotional when they talked to her. And the neighbor went and called the newspaper before she even called the police. If she had real concern for your wife…
MK: Let me thank the caller for that. Here is another listener who says that ‘listening to Mr. Mirkarimi has been very triggering to me. I’m in the process of divorcing a man who to hear tell the story of our marriage sounds eerily like your guest this morning. He, too had many incidents in the car, he too paints me as being hysterical and out of control when he retells the story. It’s a common tactic for men who are emotionally and verbally abusive to start arguments in the car. It’s a confined space in which the victim is truly imprisoned. I am struck by the skill with which Mr. Mirkarimi suddenly shifts blame to his wife. He was wrong and all I heard in his telling of the story were justifications for his actions. Sir, placing your hand on your wife’s arm does not cause a bruise, violently trying to restrain somebody does. Mr. Mirkarimi does not need anger management classes, abuse is not an anger problem, abuse is a problem of entitlement, entitlement to control the actions of another. Couples counseling does not help in these situations and can only make the situations worse. Counseling focuses on communication between a couple, abuse is not communication problem, it is an entitlement problem.’
RM: I agree. I completely agree with that. And again, I’m not making any justification, I’m telling you the story as it happened.
And i think that the stream where my wife is coming from, it is consistent where shes coming from. And it is an entitlement question that i abused and was wrong for that. but i also want to explain that there was somebody else in the car. It was my son. And I’m not going to dismiss the fact the fact the i was scared and panicked for him and he was agitated as was my wife at that moment in that short period of time. May i remind you that this only lasted 15 minutes. And I made a mistake terrible as it is. i cannot say if couples counseling could help or not, that’s a projection.
MK: I think that depends on the couple…
RM: I think it does depend on the couple and that’s what I mean. It is something my wife wanted and something I failed to participate in.
MK: Can I ask you what’s in your heart right now? I know you’ve made it clear that you love your wife but she set all this in motion by taking this case next…..do you resent her for doing that? It would be naturally human if you did.
RM: No, I don’t. This is all my responsibility and I take accountability to it. she made a tremendous sacrifice coming from Venezuela to this city and a lifestyle that was unfamiliar to her. I think to expect her to mold into a lifestyle. I don’t expect her to come into a relationship where there hadn’t been too much pre-courting, and so we’ve been married about three years.
MK: How long was the courtship? It was pretty short as I recall.
RM: It was less than six months, and yet we were absolutely determined to make it work and celebrating the fact that we had our first child at home, we had a home birth. and the meaning of what we had at our house is something that we still cherish a great deal. Being part of a process when you have a home birth like that is something you never forget
MK: Let me read a web comment. It says, “this is nothing than a typical family process of learning how to cope with powerful feelings, which is being exploited by powerful people. I’m so sorry to Ross and his family, I cannot imagine having my children taken away from me and I suspect all the Ross haters share this essential emotion and would have been just as emotionally charged as when the argument in the family car occurred.”
Here is a caller, Joanne, join us.
JOANNE. I liked your politics a lot and I’m not sure how i feel about the case but my feeling is that Ed Lee kind of had given everything that was going on had no choice but to suspend you.
RM: I think it would have been more prudent and professional had he taken me up on my offer to hear my side of the story and the independent account of my wife before he arrived at his decision. So, I understand that the mayor has to do what he has to. I don’t have an ill will about that. but as it relates to process as somebody who is a fellow elected on a city-wide stage, and somebody who has been part of law enforcement and part of the legislative body of the city, what they have done and how they’ve done it, in my opinion is unlawful.
MK: Let me read some responses. Tony says, “I’ve heard enough, apology accepted. New York made a mistake drumming out Elliot Spitzer when he was Governor and Wall street really needed policing. while Oakland turned its cops against its people, I remember Ross standing with the occupiers to prevent violence. We need someone like him to be Sheriff.”
Another listener, Steve, says, “I voted to Ross because of his promise to continue Sheriff Mike Hennessy’s legacy of rehabilitation over retribution, when the news first broke that he was charged with domestic violence i was heartbroken, and wanted to hear from him, not the media, what happened, but I understood the criminal justice system and that he was being advised not to speak. Thank you for sharing your side and thank you Sheriff for taking responsibility, let’s move on.”
That’s your feeling isn’t it?
RM: I cannot tell you what its been like in this climate, the press, and how people have arrived to certain places. Maybe I’m projecting but it made me pretty much scared of my own shadow as I was going out in public. But people kept encouraging me to fight.
As mentioned in the segment, Flores is the ex-girlfriend of Mirkarimi who, a few weeks after Mirkarimi’s arrest on domestic violence charges, filed a police report about a similar-sounding 2008 incident that she said involved Mirkarimi grabbing her arm and leaving a bruise.
Prosecutors wanted Flores to testify against Mirkarimi in the trial; Mirkarimi’s lawyer not so much. After a hearing, Judge Garrett Wong ruled that Flores’ testimony was admissible. “The evidence is extremely probative” and “shows a propensity” for violence by Mirkarimi, the Bay Citizen reported Wong as saying.
The case, however, never went to trial, as Mirkarimi pled on a lesser charge of False Imprisonment, for which he was sentenced to three years of probation, ordered to take domestic violence classes, and ordered to perform community service.
Here again is what Mirkarimi said about Flores in the inteview:
Host Michael Krasny: Let me go back to this interview with Christina Flores where she says there were three incidents of verbal abuse and a fourth of physical – your former girlfriend when you allegedly grabbed her arm during an argument. Do you want to go on record on that?
Ross Mirkarimi: Sure, I think it was a fabrication and fiction. Do I think we had an argument of verbal abuse? Yes, I do. I believe that that was well reported about her contention and, as you referenced earlier, a relationship that came to a natural end before I saw Ms. Flores, Christina Marie Flores, was with Evelyn Nieves for seven years, who took it upon herself to say there had never been any kind of unwanted contact by me at all. And nobody local accentuated that.
I was looking forward to the trial, looking forward to the emails by Ms. Flores who, in essence, was trying to get across a way of getting even, trying to settle a score. That also had been reported when those emails were released. And I was looking forward to having that day.
Upon hearing that, Ms. Flores left a comment on this blog objecting to Mirkarimi’s characterization of her. In order to verify that the comment was really posted by her, we contacted her, and she had this to say about Mirkarimi’s comments about her testimony:
I was shocked. I really was appalled that he was calling me basically a liar and saying that I fabricated this story…
He sat there and said that I fabricated this, I lied about this, but I was the only one in court under oath in front of the judge, and for two days they went back and forth at me, trying to hear the story, and…after that the judge deemed that not only was my testimony important in the case, but it would show a history of what’s going on. [The judge] made a judgment that it’s important to show a history of abuse of female romantic partners…
So as far as [Mirkarimi] saying on your show he was looking forward to it, that’s not true.
Flores says she has also talked to former romantic partners of Mirkarimi who have stories about his temper, but that they don’t want to come forward publicly. She does say, however, that a woman she cited in the comment she left as being a disgruntled ex of Mirkarimi’s is now talking to the press…We’ll let you Google that on your own…
Sponsored
Whether any of this has any legal relevance at this point — the case was ended when Mirkarimi was sentenced — is doubtful. Politically, however, who knows? The Ethics Commission hearing is slated for next week…
lower waypoint
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Jon is also a playwright whose work has been produced in San Francisco, New York, Italy, and around the U.S. He has written about film for his own blog and studied film at Boston University.","avatar":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/98887f7ed1c876ed414d4c915e969584?s=600&d=blank&r=g","twitter":"jbrooksfoy","facebook":null,"instagram":null,"linkedin":null,"sites":[{"site":"arts","roles":["Contributor","editor"]},{"site":"news","roles":["author"]},{"site":"futureofyou","roles":["administrator"]},{"site":"mindshift","roles":["editor"]},{"site":"stateofhealth","roles":["editor"]},{"site":"science","roles":["administrator"]},{"site":"quest","roles":["editor"]}],"headData":{"title":"Jon Brooks | KQED","description":"Digital Editor","ogImgSrc":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/98887f7ed1c876ed414d4c915e969584?s=600&d=blank&r=g","twImgSrc":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/98887f7ed1c876ed414d4c915e969584?s=600&d=blank&r=g"},"isLoading":false,"link":"/author/jbrooks"}},"breakingNewsReducer":{},"campaignFinanceReducer":{},"firebase":{"requesting":{},"requested":{},"timestamps":{},"data":{},"ordered":{},"auth":{"isLoaded":false,"isEmpty":true},"authError":null,"profile":{"isLoaded":false,"isEmpty":true},"listeners":{"byId":{},"allIds":[]},"isInitializing":false,"errors":[]},"navBarReducer":{"navBarId":"news","fullView":true,"showPlayer":false},"navMenuReducer":{"menus":[{"key":"menu1","items":[{"name":"News","link":"/","type":"title"},{"name":"Politics","link":"/politics"},{"name":"Science","link":"/science"},{"name":"Education","link":"/educationnews"},{"name":"Housing","link":"/housing"},{"name":"Immigration","link":"/immigration"},{"name":"Criminal Justice","link":"/criminaljustice"},{"name":"Silicon Valley","link":"/siliconvalley"},{"name":"Forum","link":"/forum"},{"name":"The California Report","link":"/californiareport"}]},{"key":"menu2","items":[{"name":"Arts & Culture","link":"/arts","type":"title"},{"name":"Critics’ Picks","link":"/thedolist"},{"name":"Cultural Commentary","link":"/artscommentary"},{"name":"Food & Drink","link":"/food"},{"name":"Bay Area Hip-Hop","link":"/bayareahiphop"},{"name":"Rebel Girls","link":"/rebelgirls"},{"name":"Arts Video","link":"/artsvideos"}]},{"key":"menu3","items":[{"name":"Podcasts","link":"/podcasts","type":"title"},{"name":"Bay Curious","link":"/podcasts/baycurious"},{"name":"Rightnowish","link":"/podcasts/rightnowish"},{"name":"The Bay","link":"/podcasts/thebay"},{"name":"On Our Watch","link":"/podcasts/onourwatch"},{"name":"Mindshift","link":"/podcasts/mindshift"},{"name":"Consider This","link":"/podcasts/considerthis"},{"name":"Political Breakdown","link":"/podcasts/politicalbreakdown"}]},{"key":"menu4","items":[{"name":"Live Radio","link":"/radio","type":"title"},{"name":"TV","link":"/tv","type":"title"},{"name":"Events","link":"/events","type":"title"},{"name":"For Educators","link":"/education","type":"title"},{"name":"Support KQED","link":"/support","type":"title"},{"name":"About","link":"/about","type":"title"},{"name":"Help Center","link":"https://kqed-helpcenter.kqed.org/s","type":"title"}]}]},"pagesReducer":{},"postsReducer":{"stream_live":{"type":"live","id":"stream_live","audioUrl":"https://streams.kqed.org/kqedradio","title":"Live Stream","excerpt":"Live Stream information currently unavailable.","link":"/radio","featImg":"","label":{"name":"KQED Live","link":"/"}},"stream_kqedNewscast":{"type":"posts","id":"stream_kqedNewscast","audioUrl":"https://www.kqed.org/.stream/anon/radio/RDnews/newscast.mp3?_=1","title":"KQED Newscast","featImg":"","label":{"name":"88.5 FM","link":"/"}},"news_11983846":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11983846","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11983846","found":true},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"state-prisons-offset-new-inmate-wage-hikes-by-cutting-hours-for-some-workers","title":"State Prisons Offset New Inmate Wage Hikes by Cutting Hours for Some Workers","publishDate":1713909559,"format":"standard","headTitle":"State Prisons Offset New Inmate Wage Hikes by Cutting Hours for Some Workers | KQED","labelTerm":{"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp>California prison officials recently boosted wages for tens of thousands of incarcerated workers. Most, however, will still make less than $1 per hour, and many may not see an increase in total earnings because their hours will be cut.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Pay rates now generally range from $0.16 to $0.74 per hour, depending on skill levels, double the previous decades-old rate, according to \u003ca href=\"https://www.cdcr.ca.gov/regulations/wp-content/uploads/sites/171/2024/04/Inmate-Pay_Approval.pdf\">new regulations\u003c/a> that went into effect on April 16.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The increase is intended to incentivize incarcerated people to take jobs for their own rehabilitation, said the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, which also eliminated all unpaid job assignments.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“New wages will also help workers meet restitution payments for crime victims and save more money in preparation for release,” Tessa Outhyse, a CDCR spokesperson, said in a statement. “In addition to a paycheck, work assignments build technical and social skills, instill accountability and responsibility, and prepare incarcerated people for careers after release.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Nearly 39,000 incarcerated people have job assignments in state prisons, doing everything from construction and maintenance to custodial and food services.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>About 1,200 incarcerated firefighters, who are on a separate pay scale, will also now make anywhere from $5.80 to $10.24 a day, a significant increase over the previous daily range of $2.90 to $5.13. Cal Fire also pays an additional $1 per hour for crews battling active fires.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside label=\"more on California prisons\" tag=\"cdcr\"]However, an overall pay increase may not materialize for many incarcerated workers. Outhyse confirmed that as CDCR boosts wages, it also plans to reduce up to three-quarters of its full-time job offerings to half-time — although it said it is “not conducting a wholesale reduction.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“CDCR is exploring the introduction of some flexibility in this area to accommodate institution budget requirements as well as the possibility of increasing inmates’ flexibility to participate in rehabilitative program assignments,” the agency wrote in response to public comment concerns.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Prisoner rights advocates \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11967728/california-prison-officials-aim-to-raise-hourly-minimum-wage-to-at-least-16-cents\">pushed for a much higher pay increase\u003c/a>, one closer to California’s minimum wage of $16 an hour, without reductions in full-time jobs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Jacob Hutt, an attorney with the Prison Law Office, said the new wages are not setting up people in custody to succeed when released.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“By paying people a slave wage right now, they are all but ensuring that people are going to end up in poverty once they leave custody,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In addition, CDCR often \u003ca href=\"https://www.cdcr.ca.gov/family-resources/send-money/\">deducts up to 55%\u003c/a> of an incarcerated workers’ wages for administrative costs and restitution fees for crime victims, Hutt added, further reducing their net pay and ability to purchase canteen items.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Even when you don’t consider the fact that so many of these workers are actually not going to receive any pay increase because they’re being forced from full-time to half-time, the minimum pay raise is just so ridiculously low,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"Starting this month, pay rates will now generally range from $0.16 to $0.74 per hour, double the previous decades-old rate. But many full-time jobs will be cut to half-time.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1713910120,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":15,"wordCount":503},"headData":{"title":"State Prisons Offset New Inmate Wage Hikes by Cutting Hours for Some Workers | KQED","description":"Starting this month, pay rates will now generally range from $0.16 to $0.74 per hour, double the previous decades-old rate. But many full-time jobs will be cut to half-time.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"State Prisons Offset New Inmate Wage Hikes by Cutting Hours for Some Workers","datePublished":"2024-04-23T21:59:19.000Z","dateModified":"2024-04-23T22:08:40.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"Y","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"sticky":false,"WpOldSlug":"state-prisons-offset-new-inmate-wage-hikes-by-cutting-hours-for-workers","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11983846/state-prisons-offset-new-inmate-wage-hikes-by-cutting-hours-for-some-workers","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>California prison officials recently boosted wages for tens of thousands of incarcerated workers. Most, however, will still make less than $1 per hour, and many may not see an increase in total earnings because their hours will be cut.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Pay rates now generally range from $0.16 to $0.74 per hour, depending on skill levels, double the previous decades-old rate, according to \u003ca href=\"https://www.cdcr.ca.gov/regulations/wp-content/uploads/sites/171/2024/04/Inmate-Pay_Approval.pdf\">new regulations\u003c/a> that went into effect on April 16.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The increase is intended to incentivize incarcerated people to take jobs for their own rehabilitation, said the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, which also eliminated all unpaid job assignments.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“New wages will also help workers meet restitution payments for crime victims and save more money in preparation for release,” Tessa Outhyse, a CDCR spokesperson, said in a statement. “In addition to a paycheck, work assignments build technical and social skills, instill accountability and responsibility, and prepare incarcerated people for careers after release.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Nearly 39,000 incarcerated people have job assignments in state prisons, doing everything from construction and maintenance to custodial and food services.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>About 1,200 incarcerated firefighters, who are on a separate pay scale, will also now make anywhere from $5.80 to $10.24 a day, a significant increase over the previous daily range of $2.90 to $5.13. Cal Fire also pays an additional $1 per hour for crews battling active fires.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"label":"more on California prisons ","tag":"cdcr"},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>However, an overall pay increase may not materialize for many incarcerated workers. Outhyse confirmed that as CDCR boosts wages, it also plans to reduce up to three-quarters of its full-time job offerings to half-time — although it said it is “not conducting a wholesale reduction.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“CDCR is exploring the introduction of some flexibility in this area to accommodate institution budget requirements as well as the possibility of increasing inmates’ flexibility to participate in rehabilitative program assignments,” the agency wrote in response to public comment concerns.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Prisoner rights advocates \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11967728/california-prison-officials-aim-to-raise-hourly-minimum-wage-to-at-least-16-cents\">pushed for a much higher pay increase\u003c/a>, one closer to California’s minimum wage of $16 an hour, without reductions in full-time jobs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Jacob Hutt, an attorney with the Prison Law Office, said the new wages are not setting up people in custody to succeed when released.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“By paying people a slave wage right now, they are all but ensuring that people are going to end up in poverty once they leave custody,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In addition, CDCR often \u003ca href=\"https://www.cdcr.ca.gov/family-resources/send-money/\">deducts up to 55%\u003c/a> of an incarcerated workers’ wages for administrative costs and restitution fees for crime victims, Hutt added, further reducing their net pay and ability to purchase canteen items.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Even when you don’t consider the fact that so many of these workers are actually not going to receive any pay increase because they’re being forced from full-time to half-time, the minimum pay raise is just so ridiculously low,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11983846/state-prisons-offset-new-inmate-wage-hikes-by-cutting-hours-for-some-workers","authors":["8659"],"categories":["news_8"],"tags":["news_26658","news_616","news_1629","news_17725","news_27626"],"featImg":"news_11983401","label":"news"},"news_11983768":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11983768","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11983768","found":true},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"cecil-williams-legendary-pastor-of-glide-church-dies-at-94","title":"Cecil Williams, Legendary Pastor of Glide Church, Dies at 94","publishDate":1713837137,"format":"standard","headTitle":"Cecil Williams, Legendary Pastor of Glide Church, Dies at 94 | KQED","labelTerm":{"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp>Rev. Cecil Williams, the beloved social justice activist and longtime pastor of San Francisco’s Glide Memorial Church, died Monday at the age of 94.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Williams is best known for his stewardship of the Tenderloin neighborhood church that he became pastor of in 1963 and helped develop into a world-renowned congregation and social service nonprofit. As its leader, Williams built and oversaw multiple community outreach programs that have offered crucial support to hundreds of thousands of impoverished residents in the city over the last six decades.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Chief among those initiatives is the Free Meals Program. Launched in 1980, the program provides three free hot meals a day to anyone in need, dishing out hundreds of thousands of meals each year.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Willliams also became known for his welcoming approach to the LGBT community and his unflinching support of civil rights.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“One very special thing about Cecil was that he met everyone where they were — literally and spiritually,” said Oakland resident Ernestine Nettles, who has volunteered at Glide for over 50 years, and first met Williams when she was a child. “If you couldn’t make it to the church to get a Thanksgiving meal, volunteers packed them up and brought them out to the streets, handing them out to everyone.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Nettles noted that Williams “embodied the spirit of Christianity” in not passing judgment and loving people as they are. She said he treated everyone as equals, no matter their race, age, background, economic status, sexuality, past, or present.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“He is a true example of not only a Christian, but an American,” said Nettles, recalling how Williams championed a range of local and national social justice causes, and even once came to her Oakland high school to help her campaign to allow girls to wear pants. “He was a drum major for justice.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside label=\"related coverage\" tag=\"cecil-williams\"]The grandson of a slave, Albert Cecil Williams was born Sept. 22, 1929, and raised in the segregated West Texas town of San Angelo. He was one of six children.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>After moving to San Francisco, Williams helped revive Glide with Janice Mirikitani, who later became his wife. Mirikitani \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11883109/janice-mirikitani-glide-co-founder-and-sf-poet-laureate-dies\">died in 2021\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>With the addition of a chorus and a band, Williams’ church soon began hosting spirited, celebratory Sunday services that attracted a diverse swath of parishioners.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Although he retired as the church’s pastor in 2000, he retained his roles as the Minister of Liberation and CEO of \u003ca href=\"https://www.glide.org/\">the GLIDE Foundation\u003c/a> — organization that now has a more than $20 million budget and thousands of members — until last year, when \u003ca href=\"https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/article/rev-cecil-williams-glide-steps-down-17799046.php\">he officially stepped down\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Randy Shaw, the director of the Tenderloin Housing Clinic, who wrote a book on the history of the neighborhood, said Williams’ leadership of the church was transformative. Many people, he said, don’t realize that when Williams was hired to lead Glide, the congregation was almost down to the single digits.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“He chose a remarkably unsurprising strategy to rebuild the congregation. He decided to be a fierce advocate for social justice and civil rights. And most controversial for the time, he became an outspoken advocate for lesbian and gay and transgender rights” at a time when San Francisco Police were arresting gay and lesbian people for being in bars, Shaw said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In turning Glide into a major deliverer of social services, Williams became a prolific fundraiser and powerful booster, garnering the support of celebrities and major influencers, the likes of Oprah Winfrey, Bill Clinton, Bono and Warren Buffet.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Cecil was able to make financial connections to donors that no one else in the Tenderloin, and maybe even in San Francisco, could make,” he said. “He was the fiery minister who was urging people to get involved in stuff and fighting for justice and not mincing words about things.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In a statement, Mayor London Breed called Williams “the conscience of our San Francisco community.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“He spoke out against injustice and he spoke for the marginalized,” she said. “He led with compassion and wisdom, always putting the people first and never relenting in his pursuit of justice and equality. His kindness brought people together and his vision changed our City and the world.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Breed also noted how Williams championed the idea of supportive housing and “wraparound” services for those in need.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“As a young girl, I would never have dreamed I’d grow up to work with him,” she said. “We all benefited from his guidance, his support, and his moral compass. We would not be who we are as a city and a people without the legendary Cecil Williams.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This article includes reporting from KQED’s Matthew Green, Alex Gonzalez, and Bay City News.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"Williams became pastor of Glide in 1963, where he helped build and oversee multiple community outreach programs and social service initiatives that have provided crucial support to hundreds of thousands of impoverished residents in the city over the last 6 decades.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1713978737,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":22,"wordCount":818},"headData":{"title":"Cecil Williams, Legendary Pastor of Glide Church, Dies at 94 | KQED","description":"Williams became pastor of Glide in 1963, where he helped build and oversee multiple community outreach programs and social service initiatives that have provided crucial support to hundreds of thousands of impoverished residents in the city over the last 6 decades.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"Cecil Williams, Legendary Pastor of Glide Church, Dies at 94","datePublished":"2024-04-23T01:52:17.000Z","dateModified":"2024-04-24T17:12:17.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"Y","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"sticky":false,"excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11983768/cecil-williams-legendary-pastor-of-glide-church-dies-at-94","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Rev. Cecil Williams, the beloved social justice activist and longtime pastor of San Francisco’s Glide Memorial Church, died Monday at the age of 94.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Williams is best known for his stewardship of the Tenderloin neighborhood church that he became pastor of in 1963 and helped develop into a world-renowned congregation and social service nonprofit. As its leader, Williams built and oversaw multiple community outreach programs that have offered crucial support to hundreds of thousands of impoverished residents in the city over the last six decades.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Chief among those initiatives is the Free Meals Program. Launched in 1980, the program provides three free hot meals a day to anyone in need, dishing out hundreds of thousands of meals each year.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Willliams also became known for his welcoming approach to the LGBT community and his unflinching support of civil rights.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“One very special thing about Cecil was that he met everyone where they were — literally and spiritually,” said Oakland resident Ernestine Nettles, who has volunteered at Glide for over 50 years, and first met Williams when she was a child. “If you couldn’t make it to the church to get a Thanksgiving meal, volunteers packed them up and brought them out to the streets, handing them out to everyone.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Nettles noted that Williams “embodied the spirit of Christianity” in not passing judgment and loving people as they are. She said he treated everyone as equals, no matter their race, age, background, economic status, sexuality, past, or present.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“He is a true example of not only a Christian, but an American,” said Nettles, recalling how Williams championed a range of local and national social justice causes, and even once came to her Oakland high school to help her campaign to allow girls to wear pants. “He was a drum major for justice.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"label":"related coverage ","tag":"cecil-williams"},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>The grandson of a slave, Albert Cecil Williams was born Sept. 22, 1929, and raised in the segregated West Texas town of San Angelo. He was one of six children.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>After moving to San Francisco, Williams helped revive Glide with Janice Mirikitani, who later became his wife. Mirikitani \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11883109/janice-mirikitani-glide-co-founder-and-sf-poet-laureate-dies\">died in 2021\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>With the addition of a chorus and a band, Williams’ church soon began hosting spirited, celebratory Sunday services that attracted a diverse swath of parishioners.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Although he retired as the church’s pastor in 2000, he retained his roles as the Minister of Liberation and CEO of \u003ca href=\"https://www.glide.org/\">the GLIDE Foundation\u003c/a> — organization that now has a more than $20 million budget and thousands of members — until last year, when \u003ca href=\"https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/article/rev-cecil-williams-glide-steps-down-17799046.php\">he officially stepped down\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Randy Shaw, the director of the Tenderloin Housing Clinic, who wrote a book on the history of the neighborhood, said Williams’ leadership of the church was transformative. Many people, he said, don’t realize that when Williams was hired to lead Glide, the congregation was almost down to the single digits.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“He chose a remarkably unsurprising strategy to rebuild the congregation. He decided to be a fierce advocate for social justice and civil rights. And most controversial for the time, he became an outspoken advocate for lesbian and gay and transgender rights” at a time when San Francisco Police were arresting gay and lesbian people for being in bars, Shaw said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In turning Glide into a major deliverer of social services, Williams became a prolific fundraiser and powerful booster, garnering the support of celebrities and major influencers, the likes of Oprah Winfrey, Bill Clinton, Bono and Warren Buffet.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Cecil was able to make financial connections to donors that no one else in the Tenderloin, and maybe even in San Francisco, could make,” he said. “He was the fiery minister who was urging people to get involved in stuff and fighting for justice and not mincing words about things.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In a statement, Mayor London Breed called Williams “the conscience of our San Francisco community.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“He spoke out against injustice and he spoke for the marginalized,” she said. “He led with compassion and wisdom, always putting the people first and never relenting in his pursuit of justice and equality. His kindness brought people together and his vision changed our City and the world.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Breed also noted how Williams championed the idea of supportive housing and “wraparound” services for those in need.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“As a young girl, I would never have dreamed I’d grow up to work with him,” she said. “We all benefited from his guidance, his support, and his moral compass. We would not be who we are as a city and a people without the legendary Cecil Williams.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This article includes reporting from KQED’s Matthew Green, Alex Gonzalez, and Bay City News.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11983768/cecil-williams-legendary-pastor-of-glide-church-dies-at-94","authors":["237"],"categories":["news_8"],"tags":["news_29728","news_33981","news_856","news_3181"],"featImg":"news_11983781","label":"news"},"forum_2010101905491":{"type":"posts","id":"forum_2010101905491","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"forum","id":"2010101905491","found":true},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"erik-aadahl-on-the-power-of-sound-in-film","title":"Erik Aadahl on the Power of Sound in Film","publishDate":1713914182,"format":"audio","headTitle":"Erik Aadahl on the Power of Sound in Film | KQED","labelTerm":{"site":"forum"},"content":"\u003cp>We often think of film as a visual medium. But a carefully placed sound effect or a well crafted sonic atmosphere can evoke emotion just as profoundly. Can you imagine a movie like “Godzilla” without the monster’s signature roar? Or the terrifying silence of “A Quiet Place?” For Erik Aadahl, the Oscar nominated sound designer behind both of those films, sound is the human sense tied closest to our emotions. We talk with Aadahl about what his work entails, how he sources sound for his films and how he creates soundscapes both otherworldly and joyous. What movies stand out to you for their sound?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"We talk with Aadahl about what his work entails, how he sources sound for his films and how he creates soundscapes both otherworldly and joyous.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1713987997,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":3,"wordCount":112},"headData":{"title":"Erik Aadahl on the Power of Sound in Film | KQED","description":"We talk with Aadahl about what his work entails, how he sources sound for his films and how he creates soundscapes both otherworldly and joyous.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"Article","headline":"Erik Aadahl on the Power of Sound in Film","datePublished":"2024-04-23T23:16:22.000Z","dateModified":"2024-04-24T19:46:37.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}},"audioUrl":"https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/pdst.fm/e/chrt.fm/track/G6C7C3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC7484057311.mp3?updated=1713987406","airdate":1713978000,"forumGuests":[{"name":"Erik Aadahl","bio":"sound designer; co-founder of the studio, E Squared - credits include \"Transformers,\" \"Godzilla,\" \"A Quiet Place,\" \"Argo,\" \"Kung Fu Panda,\" and \"The Creator\""}],"sticky":false,"excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/forum/2010101905491/erik-aadahl-on-the-power-of-sound-in-film","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>We often think of film as a visual medium. But a carefully placed sound effect or a well crafted sonic atmosphere can evoke emotion just as profoundly. Can you imagine a movie like “Godzilla” without the monster’s signature roar? Or the terrifying silence of “A Quiet Place?” For Erik Aadahl, the Oscar nominated sound designer behind both of those films, sound is the human sense tied closest to our emotions. We talk with Aadahl about what his work entails, how he sources sound for his films and how he creates soundscapes both otherworldly and joyous. What movies stand out to you for their sound?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/forum/2010101905491/erik-aadahl-on-the-power-of-sound-in-film","authors":["243"],"categories":["forum_165"],"featImg":"forum_2010101905498","label":"forum"},"news_11983878":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11983878","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11983878","found":true},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"fresnos-chinatown-neighborhood-to-see-big-changes-from-high-speed-rail","title":"Fresno's Chinatown Neighborhood To See Big Changes From High Speed Rail","publishDate":1713969364,"format":"audio","headTitle":"Fresno’s Chinatown Neighborhood To See Big Changes From High Speed Rail | KQED","labelTerm":{},"content":"\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>High Speed Rail Offers Hope, Concerns For One Fresno Neighborhood\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For many Californians, the idea of High Speed Rail becoming a reality, is well just an idea. But in Fresno, where one of the first stations will be built, some residents see the rail system as a lifeline.\u003c/span>\u003cbr>\n\u003cem>Reporter: Madi Bolanos, The California Report\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Protests Over War In Gaza Grow At College Campuses\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Cal Poly Humboldt has shut down its campus, after students occupied a building on campus. And a protest encampment continues to grow at UC Berkeley, as students voice their concerns about the war in Gaza, and universities investing in companies that benefit Israel.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":null,"status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1713969364,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":4,"wordCount":109},"headData":{"title":"Fresno's Chinatown Neighborhood To See Big Changes From High Speed Rail | KQED","description":"High Speed Rail Offers Hope, Concerns For One Fresno Neighborhood For many Californians, the idea of High Speed Rail becoming a reality, is well just an idea. But in Fresno, where one of the first stations will be built, some residents see the rail system as a lifeline. Reporter: Madi Bolanos, The California Report Protests Over War In Gaza Grow At College Campuses Cal Poly Humboldt has shut down its campus, after students occupied a building on campus. And a protest encampment continues to grow at UC Berkeley, as students voice their concerns about the war in Gaza, and universities","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"Fresno's Chinatown Neighborhood To See Big Changes From High Speed Rail","datePublished":"2024-04-24T14:36:04.000Z","dateModified":"2024-04-24T14:36:04.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"Y","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"source":"Morning Report","sourceUrl":"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/tcrarchive/","audioUrl":"https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G6C7C3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC6905300993.mp3?updated=1713969415","sticky":false,"excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11983878/fresnos-chinatown-neighborhood-to-see-big-changes-from-high-speed-rail","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>High Speed Rail Offers Hope, Concerns For One Fresno Neighborhood\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For many Californians, the idea of High Speed Rail becoming a reality, is well just an idea. But in Fresno, where one of the first stations will be built, some residents see the rail system as a lifeline.\u003c/span>\u003cbr>\n\u003cem>Reporter: Madi Bolanos, The California Report\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Protests Over War In Gaza Grow At College Campuses\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Cal Poly Humboldt has shut down its campus, after students occupied a building on campus. And a protest encampment continues to grow at UC Berkeley, as students voice their concerns about the war in Gaza, and universities investing in companies that benefit Israel.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11983878/fresnos-chinatown-neighborhood-to-see-big-changes-from-high-speed-rail","authors":["236"],"programs":["news_72"],"categories":["news_21291"],"tags":["news_21998","news_21268"],"featImg":"news_11983879","label":"source_news_11983878"},"forum_2010101905485":{"type":"posts","id":"forum_2010101905485","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"forum","id":"2010101905485","found":true},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"kqed-youth-takeover-how-can-san-jose-schools-create-safer-campuses","title":"KQED Youth Takeover: How Can San Jose Schools Create Safer Campuses?","publishDate":1713913384,"format":"audio","headTitle":"KQED Youth Takeover: How Can San Jose Schools Create Safer Campuses? | KQED","labelTerm":{"site":"forum"},"content":"\u003cp>In 2020 and 2021, against a backdrop of the Black Lives Matter movement and Covid-19 pandemic, school districts across the country made the decision to remove police officers from their campuses. In the San Jose area, pressure from teachers and parents pushed several school districts to increase mental health support on campuses – hiring social workers and creating wellness centers – as an alternative to policing. As part of KQED’s Youth Takeover week, high school students Khadeejah Khan and Nico Fischer, and a panel of educators, will examine that decision, learn how different schools in San Jose have adapted, and discuss new issues around safety. And we’ll hear from you: how can we create safe, positive environments for students?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"In the San Jose area, pressure from teachers and parents pushed several school districts to increase mental health support on campuses - hiring social workers and creating wellness centers - as an alternative to policing. As part of KQED’s Youth Takeover week, high school juniors Khadeejah Khan and Nico Fischer, and a panel of educators, will examine that decision.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1713987560,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":3,"wordCount":126},"headData":{"title":"KQED Youth Takeover: How Can San Jose Schools Create Safer Campuses? | KQED","description":"In the San Jose area, pressure from teachers and parents pushed several school districts to increase mental health support on campuses - hiring social workers and creating wellness centers - as an alternative to policing. As part of KQED’s Youth Takeover week, high school juniors Khadeejah Khan and Nico Fischer, and a panel of educators, will examine that decision.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"Article","headline":"KQED Youth Takeover: How Can San Jose Schools Create Safer Campuses?","datePublished":"2024-04-23T23:03:04.000Z","dateModified":"2024-04-24T19:39:20.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}},"audioUrl":"https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/pdst.fm/e/chrt.fm/track/G6C7C3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC5615044161.mp3?updated=1713987842","airdate":1713974400,"forumGuests":[{"name":"Khadeejah Khan","bio":"senior, Santa Clara High School"},{"name":"Nico Fischer","bio":"sophomore, Santa Clara High School"},{"name":"Rachel Stanek","bio":"English teacher of thirty years in the East Side Union High School District"},{"name":"Tomara Hall","bio":"special education teacher, San Jose Unified School District; Equity Coalition leader and community organizer"},{"name":"Mike Gatenby","bio":"teacher, East Side Union High School District"}],"sticky":false,"excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/forum/2010101905485/kqed-youth-takeover-how-can-san-jose-schools-create-safer-campuses","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>In 2020 and 2021, against a backdrop of the Black Lives Matter movement and Covid-19 pandemic, school districts across the country made the decision to remove police officers from their campuses. In the San Jose area, pressure from teachers and parents pushed several school districts to increase mental health support on campuses – hiring social workers and creating wellness centers – as an alternative to policing. As part of KQED’s Youth Takeover week, high school students Khadeejah Khan and Nico Fischer, and a panel of educators, will examine that decision, learn how different schools in San Jose have adapted, and discuss new issues around safety. And we’ll hear from you: how can we create safe, positive environments for students?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/forum/2010101905485/kqed-youth-takeover-how-can-san-jose-schools-create-safer-campuses","authors":["11757"],"categories":["forum_165"],"tags":["forum_640"],"featImg":"forum_2010101905486","label":"forum"},"news_11821950":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11821950","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11821950","found":true},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"how-to-safely-attend-a-protest-in-the-bay-area","title":"How to Attend a Rally Safely in the Bay Area: Your Rights, Protections and the Police","publishDate":1713907559,"format":"standard","headTitle":"How to Attend a Rally Safely in the Bay Area: Your Rights, Protections and the Police | KQED","labelTerm":{},"content":"\u003cp>\u003ci data-stringify-type=\"italic\">This story was originally published on June 24, 2022, and was last updated at 3 p.m. Wednesday, April 24.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Months into 2024, the Bay Area has seen many passionate demonstrations.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>These range from students \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11971577/berkeleys-peoples-park-cleared-by-police-7-arrested\">opposing construction replacing People’s Park in Berkeley\u003c/a> and a march in response to \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11983701/sweeps-kill-bay-area-homeless-advocates-weigh-in-on-pivotal-u-s-supreme-court-case\">a Supreme Court case addressing how cities can respond to homelessness\u003c/a> to \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/gaza\">protests, rallies and vigils drawing thousands of people around the region in support of a cease-fire in Gaza\u003c/a> — joining direct action taking place nationwide.\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>Jump straight to: \u003ca href=\"#start\">Tips on what to have ready before going to a protest.\u003c/a>\u003c/strong>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>These latest protests included \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11982940/protesters-shut-down-880-freeway-in-oakland-as-part-of-economic-blockade-for-gaza\">a series of actions on April 15 that blocked I-880 in Oakland and the Golden Gate Bridge\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://www.berkeleyside.org/2024/04/22/uc-berkeley-protest-sit-in-gaza-war-cal-investments\">a sit-in at UC Berkeley\u003c/a>. These protests follow \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/columbia-yale-israel-palestinians-protests-56c3d9d0a278c15ed8e4132a75ea9599\">student protests at other universities, including Columbia and Yale\u003c/a>. (Read more about the decadeslong background from \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/series/1205445976/middle-east-crisis\">NPR in their ‘Middle East crisis — explained’ series\u003c/a>.)\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11965032\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1920px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-11965032 size-full\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/231018-StudentWalkoutGaza-011-BL-qut.jpg\" alt=\"A young woman stands in front of a high school building. She looks away from the camera and has the Palestinian flag painted on her rigth cheek.\" width=\"1920\" height=\"1280\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/231018-StudentWalkoutGaza-011-BL-qut.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/231018-StudentWalkoutGaza-011-BL-qut-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/231018-StudentWalkoutGaza-011-BL-qut-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/231018-StudentWalkoutGaza-011-BL-qut-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/231018-StudentWalkoutGaza-011-BL-qut-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Deena, a high school student, participates in a walkout to demand a cease-fire in the Israel-Hamas war in San Francisco on Oct. 18, 2023. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The San Francisco Bay Area has a long history of protest. But if you plan on attending a rally, how can you stay safe? What are your rights as a protester?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If this is the first time you or your friends will go to a protest, make sure to bookmark this guide, as our team frequently updates it with new information.[aside postID='news_11967439,news_11955465,news_11871364,news_11827832' label='Related Guides From KQED']\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And remember: If you’re unable to join a rally or protest in person for whatever reason but want to make your stance on an issue known, you always have the option to \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11967439/how-can-i-call-my-representative-a-step-by-step-guide-to-the-process\">contact your elected officials to express your opinions\u003c/a>. For more information on what “call your reps” actually means, how to do it, and what to expect as a result, read our explainer, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11967439/how-can-i-call-my-representative-a-step-by-step-guide-to-the-process\">How Can I Call My Representative? A Step-by-Step Guide to the Process\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003ca id=\"start\">\u003c/a>Have a plan — and then a backup plan\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>There’s a lot you can do before a protest.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Travel with friends\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Choose a meeting place beforehand in the event you get separated. You may also want to designate a friend who is not at the protest as someone you can check in with.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Charge your phone. However, some activist groups also recommend taking digital security measures, such as disabling the fingerprint unlock feature to prevent a police officer from forcing you to unlock the phone. Others also recommend turning off text preview on messages and using a more secure messaging app, such as Signal.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Also, make sure that you can function without a phone. Consider writing down important phone numbers and keeping them with you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pack a small bag\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Bring only essentials such as water, snacks, hand sanitizer and an extra phone charger.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The active component in tear gas adheres to moisture on your face. So it’s also a good idea to pack an extra mask or face covering in case you are exposed to tear gas.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Some people \u003ca href=\"https://lifehacker.com/how-to-protest-safely-and-legally-5859590\">recommend bringing basic medical supplies and a bandana soaked in vinegar\u003c/a> or \u003ca href=\"https://www.popsci.com/story/diy/tear-gas-guide/\">in water in a sealed plastic bag\u003c/a> in case there is tear gas. Others recommend a small bottle of water — or even better, a squirt bottle — to pour on your face and eyes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If you get tear-gassed, it is often recommended to:\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>Close your eyes.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Hold your breath.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Get out of the area as soon as possible.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Rinse your eyes when possible (ideally using what you have packed with you).\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Research the intended protest route\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This may be confusing since there’s not always a clearly stated route (a protest is, or course, not a parade), but some protests have preplanned routes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>By knowing where the protest is headed, you will be able to plan how you might \u003ca href=\"https://netpol.org/guide-to-kettles/\">avoid being caught in a “kettle”\u003c/a> or other containment method — and be able to leave when you are ready.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Know who is organizing the protest\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s worth doing some research on the people and groups behind any protest you plan to attend to make sure it’s in alignment with your values and objectives. During certain Black Lives Matter protests in San Diego in June 2020, for instance, organizers warned demonstrators to avoid specific events they said likely had been surreptitiously coordinated by white nationalist groups.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Know your rights\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>You are entitled to free speech and freedom of assembly. However, your rights can be unclear during curfews and shelter-in-place orders. The American Civil Liberties Union has a \u003ca href=\"https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/protesters-rights/#i-want-to-take-pictures-or-shoot-video-at-a-protest\">detailed guide to your rights as a protester or a protest organizer\u003c/a>. Notably, when police issue an order to disperse, it is meant to be the last resort for law enforcement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“If officers issue a dispersal order, they must provide a reasonable opportunity to comply, including sufficient time and a clear, unobstructed exit path,” \u003ca href=\"https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/protesters-rights/#i-want-to-take-pictures-or-shoot-video-at-a-protest\">according to the ACLU\u003c/a>. \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11955465/dolores-hill-bomb-legal-rights-spectator-onlooker\">Read our guide to your rights as a spectator.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If you are photographing others, it is recommended to respect privacy, as some may not want to have videos or photos taken. This may also depend on context, location and time of day. In some cases journalists, or those documenting events, have been the target of tear gas and rubber bullets.\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>\u003ca href=\"#tellus\">Tell us: What else do you need information about right now?\u003c/a>\u003c/strong>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>The First Amendment gives you the right to film police who are actively performing their duties, and bystander videos can provide important counternarratives to official accounts. Read our \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11871364/recording-the-police-what-to-know-and-how-to-stay-safe-doing-it\">guide to filming encounters with the police safely and ethically\u003c/a> and where to share your footage.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Additional information can be found from the ACLU and the National Lawyers Guild — the NLG has \u003ca href=\"https://www.nlg.org/know-your-rights/\">pocket-sized know-your-rights guides\u003c/a> in multiple languages. Writing the number for the NLG hotline (and other important numbers such as emergency contacts) on your arm in case you lose your phone or have it confiscated is another suggested way to ensure you have it — should you need it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11958935\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11958935\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/08/RS68263_20230822-HomelessLawsuit-17-JY-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"A large crowd with signs gathers in front of a large stone building. A line of police officers stands nearby.\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/08/RS68263_20230822-HomelessLawsuit-17-JY-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/08/RS68263_20230822-HomelessLawsuit-17-JY-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/08/RS68263_20230822-HomelessLawsuit-17-JY-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/08/RS68263_20230822-HomelessLawsuit-17-JY-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/08/RS68263_20230822-HomelessLawsuit-17-JY-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/08/RS68263_20230822-HomelessLawsuit-17-JY-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Protesters, counter-protesters, and SFPD are seen at a rally in front of the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco on Wednesday, Aug. 23, 2023. The court is hearing arguments for the city’s appeal of an injunction filed by the Coalition on Homelessness, which has temporarily kept city workers from removing encampments on the streets. \u003ccite>(Juliana Yamada/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Be aware of your surroundings\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>During the first few days of George Floyd protests in the Bay Area in June 2020, there were fireworks, fires, rubber bullets, tear gas, flash-bangs and even some gunshots. Being aware of your surroundings includes having an understanding of what possible actions may occur around you.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Know the possible law enforcement ramifications of attending a protest\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>On April 17, San Francisco District Attorney Brooke Jenkins announced that \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11983413/could-protesters-who-shut-down-golden-gate-bridge-be-charged-with-false-imprisonment\">she was considering charging a group of pro-Palestinian protesters\u003c/a> with a felony for \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11982940/protesters-shut-down-880-freeway-in-oakland-as-part-of-economic-blockade-for-gaza\">blocking Bay Area freeways\u003c/a>. People who were stuck in traffic on the bridge, Jenkins \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11983413/could-protesters-who-shut-down-golden-gate-bridge-be-charged-with-false-imprisonment\">wrote on X\u003c/a>, “may be entitled to restitution + have other victim rights guaranteed under Marsy’s law.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>ACLU Northern California’s legal director, Shilpi Agarwal said she found the move by Jenkins had the potential to cast a “chilling effect” on speech in the Bay Area.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Lawful protests are, by design, meant to be visible and inconvenient,” Agarwal said. And while the government can place “reasonable limits on protest” in what is called \u003ca href=\"https://firstamendment.mtsu.edu/article/time-place-and-manner-restrictions/\">a “time, place, and manner restriction\u003c/a>” — meaning authorities can call for certain parameters of protest for safety or other people using the space — the government may \u003ci>not \u003c/i>tell people they cannot protest. And in public spaces, Agarwal said, “people are allowed to protest.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>What kinds of law enforcement charges could protesters face, however? Agarwal said while \u003ca href=\"https://www.aclunc.org/our-work/know-your-rights\">charges for protests can be nuanced\u003c/a>, at a basic level, if you are engaged in a protest and encounter police officers who then determine for “some reason” you have violated the “parameters” of the protest, there are usually three charging options available to officers:\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>An infraction: typically a ticket where you show your ID, get a citation and may have to appear in court. Usually, an infraction is just a fine to pay.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>A misdemeanor: for which “you rarely serve” jail time for low-level offenses, Agarwal said.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>A felony: A more serious criminal charge that usually brings jail time.\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>Agarwal said the “vast majority of offenses that are commonly charged at protests, when the police do get involved, are typically infractions or misdemeanors.” Common provisions for protesters have been something like resisting arrest, disrupting a public meeting, and failing to disperse.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Center for Protest Law and Litigation’s senior counsel, Rachel Lederman, said restitution is common in criminal cases, adding that \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11967536/protesters-calling-for-gaza-ceasefire-block-bay-bridges-westbound-lanes\">pro-Palestinian protesters who blocked the Bay Bridge\u003c/a> in November 2023 are currently paying “a very small amount of restitution to one person who had a specific medical bill, that they attributed to the traffic blockage.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>On April 22, California State Assemblymember Kate Sanchez introduced \u003ca href=\"https://www.courthousenews.com/california-bill-would-create-new-infraction-for-protesters-who-block-highways/\">a bill before the Assembly Transportation Committee\u003c/a> that would create a new infraction for those who obstruct a highway during a protest that affects an emergency vehicle.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The bill proposes a fine of between $200 and $500 for the first offense, $300 and $1000 for the second offense and $500 to $1000 for additional offenses.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Reminder: Your rights are at their highest in a public forum\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When considering your rights, take into account the location where a protest may take place — it could be a campus, a city council meeting, or a usually busy road. And Agarwal said that while the law is complicated and can vary in different situations, First Amendment rights are generally “at their highest when something is a public forum” — that is, a place like a sidewalk or a public plaza.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Aside from the \u003ca href=\"https://firstamendment.mtsu.edu/article/time-place-and-manner-restrictions/\">time, place, and manner restriction\u003c/a>, “when you have a public forum, there is very, very little that the government can do to regulate your speech,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Conversely, First Amendment rights are at their lowest at places like private homes, Agarwal said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It doesn’t mean that you have no rights, but it does mean that whenever and wherever you are on something that is not a public forum, the strength of your First Amendment rights starts to wane,” she said. “And the government can do more to regulate what you can and cannot say.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Remember there are many ways to protest\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>As the disability community continues to remind others, there are many ways to show up. We are still in a pandemic, and you may need to weigh the risks and goals.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You can participate in many meaningful ways that don’t include attending an in-person protest or rally. This could include educating yourself, voting, talking to your community and supporting grassroots organizations, as outlined in \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/arts/13881199/5-ways-to-show-up-for-racial-justice-today\">this 2020 guide from KQED’s Nastia Voynovskaya\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You can also \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11967439/how-can-i-call-my-representative-a-step-by-step-guide-to-the-process\">contact your elected officials to express your opinions\u003c/a>. For more information on what “call your reps” actually means, read our explainer, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11967439/how-can-i-call-my-representative-a-step-by-step-guide-to-the-process\">How Can I Call My Representative? A Step-by-Step Guide to the Process\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>COVID is still with us: What to know about your possible risks attending a protest\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>The good news: Your risks of getting COVID-19 outdoors remain far lower than your risks indoors — about 20 times less, said Dr. Peter Chin-Hong, professor of medicine and infectious disease specialist at UCSF.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Also, being vaccinated and boosted will greatly reduce your risks of getting very sick, being hospitalized or dying from COVID-19. If you’re not yet boosted, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11960630/free-new-covid-vaccine-near-me-2023\">find the new COVID-19 vaccine shot near you\u003c/a>. If you’re bringing children to a protest with you, remember that \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11917289/covid-vaccines-for-kids-under-5-are-here-heres-how-to-find-one\">kids and babies aged 6 months and over can get their primary COVID-19 vaccine series\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But you should still think about your risks of getting (or spreading) COVID-19 at a big event full of people, even when you’re outdoors. As with so many decisions during the pandemic, a lot comes down to your personal risks and circumstances — not just to protect yourself but others, too. “I think it requires people to be thoughtful about who they are, who they live with, and what happens when they leave the protest and go back home,” Chin-Hong said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Consider bringing a mask along regardless\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s not only the number of people you’ll encounter at a protest — it’s what they might be \u003cem>doing\u003c/em>. Even outside, screaming, chanting, coughing and singing all expel more of the particles that can spread COVID-19 than regular activity does, and you may decide to keep your mask on during a protest if it’s a super-crowded space.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You might also find that some protest organizers explicitly request you wear a mask and maintain social distancing at the event, especially if the event is being attended by groups or communities at higher risk for severe illness from COVID-19.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There’s also the possibility that you might not \u003cem>stay\u003c/em> outside the whole time. “Whenever you have a protest, nobody just stays necessarily outdoors,” Chin-Hong said, giving pre-protest gatherings and meetings or post-protest dinners as examples.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“These may be done in people’s homes. I think it’s the stuff that goes around the actual outdoor protest that I’m more worried about,” Chin-Hong said. He recommends that people “think about carrying a mask with them, like they carry an umbrella. So that they just bring out the ‘umbrella’ when it’s potentially ‘raining with COVID\u003ci>.\u003c/i>‘”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11965077\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1020px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11965077\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/RS43804_GettyImages-1244191840-1-qut-1020x680-1.jpg\" alt=\"A large crowed with signs crowds around a building that has been fenced off. Many are pushing against the fence and others are carrying signs. Almost all are wearing facemasks.\" width=\"1020\" height=\"680\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/RS43804_GettyImages-1244191840-1-qut-1020x680-1.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/RS43804_GettyImages-1244191840-1-qut-1020x680-1-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/RS43804_GettyImages-1244191840-1-qut-1020x680-1-160x107.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1020px) 100vw, 1020px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Protesters take a knee during a demonstration outside of Mission Police Station to honor of George Floyd on June 3, 2020, in San Francisco. Three years since the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic, it is still common to see people wearing facemasks at protests to protect themselves from a possible coronavirus infection.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Back in 2021, Chin-Hong told KQED that protests against racist violence and the killing of Black people by police were themselves “a response to a public health threat, if you think about the impact of structural racism and stress on health care.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Now, when it comes to weighing the desire to protest a cause with the risks of getting or spreading COVID-19, “I think the benefits of protesting are even more in favor of protesting now,” Chin-Hong told KQED in 2022. That “risk/benefit calculus,” as he puts it, is even more in favor of attending a rally — “because we have so many tools to keep people safer,” from vaccines and boosters to improved COVID-19 treatment if someone \u003cem>is\u003c/em> hospitalized.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This story includes reporting from KQED’s Lakshmi Sarah, Lisa Pickoff-White, Carly Severn and Nisa Khan. Beth LaBerge and \u003c/em>\u003cem>Peter Arcuni also contributed. A version of this story originally published on April 23, 2021.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003ca id=\"tellus\">\u003c/a>Tell us: What else do you need information about?\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>At KQED News, we know that it can sometimes be hard to track down the answers to navigate life in the Bay Area. We’ve published \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/coronavirus-resources-and-explainers\">clear, helpful explainers and guides about issues like COVID-19\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11936674/how-to-prepare-for-this-weeks-atmospheric-river-storm-sandbags-emergency-kits-and-more\">how to cope with intense winter weather\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11821950/how-to-safely-attend-a-protest-in-the-bay-area\">how to exercise your right to protest safely\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So tell us: What do you need to know more about? Tell us, and you could see your question answered online or on social media. What you submit will make our reporting stronger, and help us decide what to cover here on our site, and on KQED Public Radio, too.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[hearken id=\"10483\" src=\"https://modules.wearehearken.com/kqed/embed/10483.js\"]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"Here are some tips on safety and preparation, should you choose to participate in a protest about a cause you care about.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1713995948,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":true,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":61,"wordCount":2709},"headData":{"title":"How to Attend a Rally Safely in the Bay Area: Your Rights, Protections and the Police | KQED","description":"Here are some tips on safety and preparation, should you choose to participate in a protest about a cause you care about.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"How to Attend a Rally Safely in the Bay Area: Your Rights, Protections and the Police","datePublished":"2024-04-23T21:25:59.000Z","dateModified":"2024-04-24T21:59:08.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"Y","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"source":"News","sourceUrl":"http://kqed.org/news","sticky":false,"excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11821950/how-to-safely-attend-a-protest-in-the-bay-area","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ci data-stringify-type=\"italic\">This story was originally published on June 24, 2022, and was last updated at 3 p.m. Wednesday, April 24.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Months into 2024, the Bay Area has seen many passionate demonstrations.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>These range from students \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11971577/berkeleys-peoples-park-cleared-by-police-7-arrested\">opposing construction replacing People’s Park in Berkeley\u003c/a> and a march in response to \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11983701/sweeps-kill-bay-area-homeless-advocates-weigh-in-on-pivotal-u-s-supreme-court-case\">a Supreme Court case addressing how cities can respond to homelessness\u003c/a> to \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/gaza\">protests, rallies and vigils drawing thousands of people around the region in support of a cease-fire in Gaza\u003c/a> — joining direct action taking place nationwide.\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>Jump straight to: \u003ca href=\"#start\">Tips on what to have ready before going to a protest.\u003c/a>\u003c/strong>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>These latest protests included \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11982940/protesters-shut-down-880-freeway-in-oakland-as-part-of-economic-blockade-for-gaza\">a series of actions on April 15 that blocked I-880 in Oakland and the Golden Gate Bridge\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://www.berkeleyside.org/2024/04/22/uc-berkeley-protest-sit-in-gaza-war-cal-investments\">a sit-in at UC Berkeley\u003c/a>. These protests follow \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/columbia-yale-israel-palestinians-protests-56c3d9d0a278c15ed8e4132a75ea9599\">student protests at other universities, including Columbia and Yale\u003c/a>. (Read more about the decadeslong background from \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/series/1205445976/middle-east-crisis\">NPR in their ‘Middle East crisis — explained’ series\u003c/a>.)\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11965032\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1920px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-11965032 size-full\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/231018-StudentWalkoutGaza-011-BL-qut.jpg\" alt=\"A young woman stands in front of a high school building. She looks away from the camera and has the Palestinian flag painted on her rigth cheek.\" width=\"1920\" height=\"1280\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/231018-StudentWalkoutGaza-011-BL-qut.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/231018-StudentWalkoutGaza-011-BL-qut-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/231018-StudentWalkoutGaza-011-BL-qut-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/231018-StudentWalkoutGaza-011-BL-qut-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/231018-StudentWalkoutGaza-011-BL-qut-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Deena, a high school student, participates in a walkout to demand a cease-fire in the Israel-Hamas war in San Francisco on Oct. 18, 2023. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The San Francisco Bay Area has a long history of protest. But if you plan on attending a rally, how can you stay safe? What are your rights as a protester?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If this is the first time you or your friends will go to a protest, make sure to bookmark this guide, as our team frequently updates it with new information.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"postid":"news_11967439,news_11955465,news_11871364,news_11827832","label":"Related Guides From KQED "},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And remember: If you’re unable to join a rally or protest in person for whatever reason but want to make your stance on an issue known, you always have the option to \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11967439/how-can-i-call-my-representative-a-step-by-step-guide-to-the-process\">contact your elected officials to express your opinions\u003c/a>. For more information on what “call your reps” actually means, how to do it, and what to expect as a result, read our explainer, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11967439/how-can-i-call-my-representative-a-step-by-step-guide-to-the-process\">How Can I Call My Representative? A Step-by-Step Guide to the Process\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003ca id=\"start\">\u003c/a>Have a plan — and then a backup plan\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>There’s a lot you can do before a protest.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Travel with friends\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Choose a meeting place beforehand in the event you get separated. You may also want to designate a friend who is not at the protest as someone you can check in with.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Charge your phone. However, some activist groups also recommend taking digital security measures, such as disabling the fingerprint unlock feature to prevent a police officer from forcing you to unlock the phone. Others also recommend turning off text preview on messages and using a more secure messaging app, such as Signal.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Also, make sure that you can function without a phone. Consider writing down important phone numbers and keeping them with you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pack a small bag\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Bring only essentials such as water, snacks, hand sanitizer and an extra phone charger.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The active component in tear gas adheres to moisture on your face. So it’s also a good idea to pack an extra mask or face covering in case you are exposed to tear gas.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Some people \u003ca href=\"https://lifehacker.com/how-to-protest-safely-and-legally-5859590\">recommend bringing basic medical supplies and a bandana soaked in vinegar\u003c/a> or \u003ca href=\"https://www.popsci.com/story/diy/tear-gas-guide/\">in water in a sealed plastic bag\u003c/a> in case there is tear gas. Others recommend a small bottle of water — or even better, a squirt bottle — to pour on your face and eyes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If you get tear-gassed, it is often recommended to:\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>Close your eyes.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Hold your breath.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Get out of the area as soon as possible.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Rinse your eyes when possible (ideally using what you have packed with you).\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Research the intended protest route\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This may be confusing since there’s not always a clearly stated route (a protest is, or course, not a parade), but some protests have preplanned routes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>By knowing where the protest is headed, you will be able to plan how you might \u003ca href=\"https://netpol.org/guide-to-kettles/\">avoid being caught in a “kettle”\u003c/a> or other containment method — and be able to leave when you are ready.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Know who is organizing the protest\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s worth doing some research on the people and groups behind any protest you plan to attend to make sure it’s in alignment with your values and objectives. During certain Black Lives Matter protests in San Diego in June 2020, for instance, organizers warned demonstrators to avoid specific events they said likely had been surreptitiously coordinated by white nationalist groups.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Know your rights\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>You are entitled to free speech and freedom of assembly. However, your rights can be unclear during curfews and shelter-in-place orders. The American Civil Liberties Union has a \u003ca href=\"https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/protesters-rights/#i-want-to-take-pictures-or-shoot-video-at-a-protest\">detailed guide to your rights as a protester or a protest organizer\u003c/a>. Notably, when police issue an order to disperse, it is meant to be the last resort for law enforcement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“If officers issue a dispersal order, they must provide a reasonable opportunity to comply, including sufficient time and a clear, unobstructed exit path,” \u003ca href=\"https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/protesters-rights/#i-want-to-take-pictures-or-shoot-video-at-a-protest\">according to the ACLU\u003c/a>. \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11955465/dolores-hill-bomb-legal-rights-spectator-onlooker\">Read our guide to your rights as a spectator.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If you are photographing others, it is recommended to respect privacy, as some may not want to have videos or photos taken. This may also depend on context, location and time of day. In some cases journalists, or those documenting events, have been the target of tear gas and rubber bullets.\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>\u003ca href=\"#tellus\">Tell us: What else do you need information about right now?\u003c/a>\u003c/strong>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>The First Amendment gives you the right to film police who are actively performing their duties, and bystander videos can provide important counternarratives to official accounts. Read our \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11871364/recording-the-police-what-to-know-and-how-to-stay-safe-doing-it\">guide to filming encounters with the police safely and ethically\u003c/a> and where to share your footage.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Additional information can be found from the ACLU and the National Lawyers Guild — the NLG has \u003ca href=\"https://www.nlg.org/know-your-rights/\">pocket-sized know-your-rights guides\u003c/a> in multiple languages. Writing the number for the NLG hotline (and other important numbers such as emergency contacts) on your arm in case you lose your phone or have it confiscated is another suggested way to ensure you have it — should you need it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11958935\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11958935\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/08/RS68263_20230822-HomelessLawsuit-17-JY-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"A large crowd with signs gathers in front of a large stone building. A line of police officers stands nearby.\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/08/RS68263_20230822-HomelessLawsuit-17-JY-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/08/RS68263_20230822-HomelessLawsuit-17-JY-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/08/RS68263_20230822-HomelessLawsuit-17-JY-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/08/RS68263_20230822-HomelessLawsuit-17-JY-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/08/RS68263_20230822-HomelessLawsuit-17-JY-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/08/RS68263_20230822-HomelessLawsuit-17-JY-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Protesters, counter-protesters, and SFPD are seen at a rally in front of the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco on Wednesday, Aug. 23, 2023. The court is hearing arguments for the city’s appeal of an injunction filed by the Coalition on Homelessness, which has temporarily kept city workers from removing encampments on the streets. \u003ccite>(Juliana Yamada/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Be aware of your surroundings\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>During the first few days of George Floyd protests in the Bay Area in June 2020, there were fireworks, fires, rubber bullets, tear gas, flash-bangs and even some gunshots. Being aware of your surroundings includes having an understanding of what possible actions may occur around you.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Know the possible law enforcement ramifications of attending a protest\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>On April 17, San Francisco District Attorney Brooke Jenkins announced that \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11983413/could-protesters-who-shut-down-golden-gate-bridge-be-charged-with-false-imprisonment\">she was considering charging a group of pro-Palestinian protesters\u003c/a> with a felony for \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11982940/protesters-shut-down-880-freeway-in-oakland-as-part-of-economic-blockade-for-gaza\">blocking Bay Area freeways\u003c/a>. People who were stuck in traffic on the bridge, Jenkins \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11983413/could-protesters-who-shut-down-golden-gate-bridge-be-charged-with-false-imprisonment\">wrote on X\u003c/a>, “may be entitled to restitution + have other victim rights guaranteed under Marsy’s law.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>ACLU Northern California’s legal director, Shilpi Agarwal said she found the move by Jenkins had the potential to cast a “chilling effect” on speech in the Bay Area.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Lawful protests are, by design, meant to be visible and inconvenient,” Agarwal said. And while the government can place “reasonable limits on protest” in what is called \u003ca href=\"https://firstamendment.mtsu.edu/article/time-place-and-manner-restrictions/\">a “time, place, and manner restriction\u003c/a>” — meaning authorities can call for certain parameters of protest for safety or other people using the space — the government may \u003ci>not \u003c/i>tell people they cannot protest. And in public spaces, Agarwal said, “people are allowed to protest.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>What kinds of law enforcement charges could protesters face, however? Agarwal said while \u003ca href=\"https://www.aclunc.org/our-work/know-your-rights\">charges for protests can be nuanced\u003c/a>, at a basic level, if you are engaged in a protest and encounter police officers who then determine for “some reason” you have violated the “parameters” of the protest, there are usually three charging options available to officers:\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>An infraction: typically a ticket where you show your ID, get a citation and may have to appear in court. Usually, an infraction is just a fine to pay.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>A misdemeanor: for which “you rarely serve” jail time for low-level offenses, Agarwal said.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>A felony: A more serious criminal charge that usually brings jail time.\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>Agarwal said the “vast majority of offenses that are commonly charged at protests, when the police do get involved, are typically infractions or misdemeanors.” Common provisions for protesters have been something like resisting arrest, disrupting a public meeting, and failing to disperse.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Center for Protest Law and Litigation’s senior counsel, Rachel Lederman, said restitution is common in criminal cases, adding that \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11967536/protesters-calling-for-gaza-ceasefire-block-bay-bridges-westbound-lanes\">pro-Palestinian protesters who blocked the Bay Bridge\u003c/a> in November 2023 are currently paying “a very small amount of restitution to one person who had a specific medical bill, that they attributed to the traffic blockage.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>On April 22, California State Assemblymember Kate Sanchez introduced \u003ca href=\"https://www.courthousenews.com/california-bill-would-create-new-infraction-for-protesters-who-block-highways/\">a bill before the Assembly Transportation Committee\u003c/a> that would create a new infraction for those who obstruct a highway during a protest that affects an emergency vehicle.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The bill proposes a fine of between $200 and $500 for the first offense, $300 and $1000 for the second offense and $500 to $1000 for additional offenses.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Reminder: Your rights are at their highest in a public forum\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When considering your rights, take into account the location where a protest may take place — it could be a campus, a city council meeting, or a usually busy road. And Agarwal said that while the law is complicated and can vary in different situations, First Amendment rights are generally “at their highest when something is a public forum” — that is, a place like a sidewalk or a public plaza.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Aside from the \u003ca href=\"https://firstamendment.mtsu.edu/article/time-place-and-manner-restrictions/\">time, place, and manner restriction\u003c/a>, “when you have a public forum, there is very, very little that the government can do to regulate your speech,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Conversely, First Amendment rights are at their lowest at places like private homes, Agarwal said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It doesn’t mean that you have no rights, but it does mean that whenever and wherever you are on something that is not a public forum, the strength of your First Amendment rights starts to wane,” she said. “And the government can do more to regulate what you can and cannot say.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Remember there are many ways to protest\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>As the disability community continues to remind others, there are many ways to show up. We are still in a pandemic, and you may need to weigh the risks and goals.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You can participate in many meaningful ways that don’t include attending an in-person protest or rally. This could include educating yourself, voting, talking to your community and supporting grassroots organizations, as outlined in \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/arts/13881199/5-ways-to-show-up-for-racial-justice-today\">this 2020 guide from KQED’s Nastia Voynovskaya\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You can also \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11967439/how-can-i-call-my-representative-a-step-by-step-guide-to-the-process\">contact your elected officials to express your opinions\u003c/a>. For more information on what “call your reps” actually means, read our explainer, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11967439/how-can-i-call-my-representative-a-step-by-step-guide-to-the-process\">How Can I Call My Representative? A Step-by-Step Guide to the Process\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>COVID is still with us: What to know about your possible risks attending a protest\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>The good news: Your risks of getting COVID-19 outdoors remain far lower than your risks indoors — about 20 times less, said Dr. Peter Chin-Hong, professor of medicine and infectious disease specialist at UCSF.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Also, being vaccinated and boosted will greatly reduce your risks of getting very sick, being hospitalized or dying from COVID-19. If you’re not yet boosted, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11960630/free-new-covid-vaccine-near-me-2023\">find the new COVID-19 vaccine shot near you\u003c/a>. If you’re bringing children to a protest with you, remember that \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11917289/covid-vaccines-for-kids-under-5-are-here-heres-how-to-find-one\">kids and babies aged 6 months and over can get their primary COVID-19 vaccine series\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But you should still think about your risks of getting (or spreading) COVID-19 at a big event full of people, even when you’re outdoors. As with so many decisions during the pandemic, a lot comes down to your personal risks and circumstances — not just to protect yourself but others, too. “I think it requires people to be thoughtful about who they are, who they live with, and what happens when they leave the protest and go back home,” Chin-Hong said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Consider bringing a mask along regardless\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s not only the number of people you’ll encounter at a protest — it’s what they might be \u003cem>doing\u003c/em>. Even outside, screaming, chanting, coughing and singing all expel more of the particles that can spread COVID-19 than regular activity does, and you may decide to keep your mask on during a protest if it’s a super-crowded space.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You might also find that some protest organizers explicitly request you wear a mask and maintain social distancing at the event, especially if the event is being attended by groups or communities at higher risk for severe illness from COVID-19.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There’s also the possibility that you might not \u003cem>stay\u003c/em> outside the whole time. “Whenever you have a protest, nobody just stays necessarily outdoors,” Chin-Hong said, giving pre-protest gatherings and meetings or post-protest dinners as examples.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“These may be done in people’s homes. I think it’s the stuff that goes around the actual outdoor protest that I’m more worried about,” Chin-Hong said. He recommends that people “think about carrying a mask with them, like they carry an umbrella. So that they just bring out the ‘umbrella’ when it’s potentially ‘raining with COVID\u003ci>.\u003c/i>‘”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11965077\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1020px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11965077\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/RS43804_GettyImages-1244191840-1-qut-1020x680-1.jpg\" alt=\"A large crowed with signs crowds around a building that has been fenced off. Many are pushing against the fence and others are carrying signs. Almost all are wearing facemasks.\" width=\"1020\" height=\"680\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/RS43804_GettyImages-1244191840-1-qut-1020x680-1.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/RS43804_GettyImages-1244191840-1-qut-1020x680-1-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/RS43804_GettyImages-1244191840-1-qut-1020x680-1-160x107.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1020px) 100vw, 1020px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Protesters take a knee during a demonstration outside of Mission Police Station to honor of George Floyd on June 3, 2020, in San Francisco. Three years since the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic, it is still common to see people wearing facemasks at protests to protect themselves from a possible coronavirus infection.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Back in 2021, Chin-Hong told KQED that protests against racist violence and the killing of Black people by police were themselves “a response to a public health threat, if you think about the impact of structural racism and stress on health care.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Now, when it comes to weighing the desire to protest a cause with the risks of getting or spreading COVID-19, “I think the benefits of protesting are even more in favor of protesting now,” Chin-Hong told KQED in 2022. That “risk/benefit calculus,” as he puts it, is even more in favor of attending a rally — “because we have so many tools to keep people safer,” from vaccines and boosters to improved COVID-19 treatment if someone \u003cem>is\u003c/em> hospitalized.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This story includes reporting from KQED’s Lakshmi Sarah, Lisa Pickoff-White, Carly Severn and Nisa Khan. Beth LaBerge and \u003c/em>\u003cem>Peter Arcuni also contributed. A version of this story originally published on April 23, 2021.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003ca id=\"tellus\">\u003c/a>Tell us: What else do you need information about?\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>At KQED News, we know that it can sometimes be hard to track down the answers to navigate life in the Bay Area. We’ve published \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/coronavirus-resources-and-explainers\">clear, helpful explainers and guides about issues like COVID-19\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11936674/how-to-prepare-for-this-weeks-atmospheric-river-storm-sandbags-emergency-kits-and-more\">how to cope with intense winter weather\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11821950/how-to-safely-attend-a-protest-in-the-bay-area\">how to exercise your right to protest safely\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So tell us: What do you need to know more about? Tell us, and you could see your question answered online or on social media. What you submit will make our reporting stronger, and help us decide what to cover here on our site, and on KQED Public Radio, too.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"hearken","attributes":{"named":{"id":"10483","src":"https://modules.wearehearken.com/kqed/embed/10483.js","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11821950/how-to-safely-attend-a-protest-in-the-bay-area","authors":["236"],"categories":["news_223","news_8","news_13"],"tags":["news_21077","news_32707","news_1386","news_19971","news_28067","news_18538","news_29029","news_28044","news_6631","news_28031","news_18","news_28041","news_29475","news_29198"],"featImg":"news_11947885","label":"source_news_11821950"},"news_11983850":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11983850","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11983850","found":true},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"will-less-homework-stress-make-california-students-happier","title":"Will Less Homework Stress Make California Students Happier?","publishDate":1713956456,"format":"standard","headTitle":"Will Less Homework Stress Make California Students Happier? | KQED","labelTerm":{"term":18481,"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp>Some bills before California’s Legislature don’t come from passionate policy advocates or powerful interest groups.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Sometimes, the inspiration comes from a family car ride.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>While campaigning two years ago, Assemblymember \u003ca href=\"https://digitaldemocracy.calmatters.org/legislators/pilar-schiavo-5510\">Pilar Schiavo\u003c/a>’s daughter, then 9, asked from the backseat what her mother could do if she won.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Schiavo answered that she’d be able to make laws. Then, her daughter Sofia asked if she could make a law banning homework.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It was a kind of a joke,” the Santa Clarita Valley Democrat said in an interview, “though I’m sure she’d be happy if homework were banned.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Still, the conversation got Schiavo thinking, she said. And while \u003ca href=\"https://digitaldemocracy.calmatters.org/bills/ca_202320240ab2999?slug=CA_202320240AB2999\">Assembly Bill 2999\u003c/a> — which faces its first big test on Wednesday — is far from a ban on homework, it would require school districts, county offices of education and charter schools to develop guidelines for K–12 students. It would urge schools to be more intentional about “good” or meaningful homework.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Among other things, the guidelines should consider students’ physical health, how long assignments take, and how effective they are. However, the bill’s main concern is mental health and when homework adds stress to students’ daily lives.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Homework’s impact on happiness is partly why Schiavo brought up the proposal last month during \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/politics/capitol/2024/03/happiness-california-legislature/\">the first meeting of the Legislature’s select committee on happiness\u003c/a>, led by former Assembly Speaker \u003ca href=\"https://digitaldemocracy.calmatters.org/legislators/anthony-rendon-120?_gl=1*186p1dm*_ga*MTM0NTExODk4NS4xNjkwMzA5NjYy*_ga_5TKXNLE5NK*MTcxMzg1MzY3OS45MzYuMS4xNzEzODU2ODUzLjU4LjAuMA..*_ga_GNY4L81DZE*MTcxMzg1Njg1MS4xMDAzLjAuMTcxMzg1Njg1MS4wLjAuMA..\">Anthony Rendon\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside postID=\"mindshift_62400,mindshift_63052\" label=\"Related Stories\"]“This feeling of loneliness and disconnection — I know when my kid is not feeling connected,” Schiavo, a member of the happiness committee, told CalMatters. “It’s when she’s alone in her room (doing homework), not playing with her cousin, not having dinner with her family.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The bill analysis cites a survey of 15,000 California high schoolers from Challenge Success, a nonprofit affiliated with the Stanford Graduate School of Education. It found that 45% said homework was a major source of stress and that 52% considered most assignments to be busywork.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The \u003ca href=\"https://challengesuccess.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Challenge-Success-Homework-White-Paper-2020.pdf\">organization also reported in 2020\u003c/a> that students with higher workloads reported “symptoms of exhaustion and lower rates of sleep” but that spending more time on homework did not necessarily lead to higher test scores.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Homework’s potential to also widen inequities is why Casey Cuny supports the measure. Cuny, an English and mythology teacher at Valencia High School and \u003ca href=\"https://www.cde.ca.gov/nr/ne/yr23/yr23rel81.asp\">2024’s California Teacher of the Year\u003c/a>, said language barriers, unreliable home internet, family responsibilities or other outside factors may contribute to a student falling behind on homework.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I never want a kid’s grade to be low because they have divorced parents, and their book was at their dad’s house when they were spending the weekend at mom’s house,” said Cuny, who plans to attend a press conference Wednesday to promote the bill.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In addition, as technology makes it easier for students to cheat — using artificial technology or chat threads to lift answers, for example — Schiavo said that the educators she has spoken to indicate they’re moving towards more in-class assignments.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Cuny agrees that an emphasis on classwork does help to rein in cheating and allows him to give students immediate feedback. “I feel that I should teach them what I need to teach them when I’m with them in the room,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11983855\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/031224-Happiness-Committee-FG-CM-2-.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11983855\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/031224-Happiness-Committee-FG-CM-2-.jpg\" alt=\"A woman sits at a table facing a woman and man seated at a larger table with microphones attached.\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/031224-Happiness-Committee-FG-CM-2-.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/031224-Happiness-Committee-FG-CM-2--800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/031224-Happiness-Committee-FG-CM-2--1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/031224-Happiness-Committee-FG-CM-2--160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/031224-Happiness-Committee-FG-CM-2--1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/031224-Happiness-Committee-FG-CM-2--1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Members of the Select Committee On Happiness And Public Policy Outcomes listen to speakers during an informational hearing at the California Capitol in Sacramento on March 12, 2024. \u003ccite>(Fred Greaves/CalMatters)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The bill said the local homework policies should have input from teachers, parents, school counselors, social workers and students; be distributed at the beginning of every school year; and be reevaluated every five years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Assembly Committee on Education is expected to hear the bill Wednesday. Schiavo said she has received bipartisan support, and so far, no official opposition or support has been listed in the bill analysis.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But she acknowledges that, if passed, the measure’s provision for parental input may lead to disagreements given the recent \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/newsletter/culture-wars-california-schools/\">culture war disputes\u003c/a> between Democratic officials and parental rights groups backed by some Republican lawmakers. “I’m sure there will be lively (school) board meetings,” Schiavo said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Nevertheless, she hopes the proposal will overhaul the discussion around homework and mental health. The bill is especially pertinent now that the state is also poised to \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/health/mental-health/2023/06/mental-health-funding-2/\">cut spending on mental health services for children\u003c/a> with the passage of \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/california-voter-guide-2024/prop-1-mental-health/\">Proposition 1\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Schiavo said the mother of a student with attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder told her that the child’s struggle to finish homework had raised issues inside the house, as well as with the school’s principal and teachers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“And I’m just like, it’s sixth grade!” Schaivo said. “What’s going on?”\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"A bill from a member of the Legislature’s happiness committee would require schools to develop homework policies that consider the mental and physical strain on students.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1713912168,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":23,"wordCount":848},"headData":{"title":"Will Less Homework Stress Make California Students Happier? | KQED","description":"A bill from a member of the Legislature’s happiness committee would require schools to develop homework policies that consider the mental and physical strain on students.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"Will Less Homework Stress Make California Students Happier?","datePublished":"2024-04-24T11:00:56.000Z","dateModified":"2024-04-23T22:42:48.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"Y","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"sticky":false,"nprByline":"Lynn La\u003cbr>CalMatters\u003c/br>","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","showOnAuthorArchivePages":"No","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11983850/will-less-homework-stress-make-california-students-happier","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Some bills before California’s Legislature don’t come from passionate policy advocates or powerful interest groups.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Sometimes, the inspiration comes from a family car ride.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>While campaigning two years ago, Assemblymember \u003ca href=\"https://digitaldemocracy.calmatters.org/legislators/pilar-schiavo-5510\">Pilar Schiavo\u003c/a>’s daughter, then 9, asked from the backseat what her mother could do if she won.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Schiavo answered that she’d be able to make laws. Then, her daughter Sofia asked if she could make a law banning homework.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It was a kind of a joke,” the Santa Clarita Valley Democrat said in an interview, “though I’m sure she’d be happy if homework were banned.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Still, the conversation got Schiavo thinking, she said. And while \u003ca href=\"https://digitaldemocracy.calmatters.org/bills/ca_202320240ab2999?slug=CA_202320240AB2999\">Assembly Bill 2999\u003c/a> — which faces its first big test on Wednesday — is far from a ban on homework, it would require school districts, county offices of education and charter schools to develop guidelines for K–12 students. It would urge schools to be more intentional about “good” or meaningful homework.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Among other things, the guidelines should consider students’ physical health, how long assignments take, and how effective they are. However, the bill’s main concern is mental health and when homework adds stress to students’ daily lives.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Homework’s impact on happiness is partly why Schiavo brought up the proposal last month during \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/politics/capitol/2024/03/happiness-california-legislature/\">the first meeting of the Legislature’s select committee on happiness\u003c/a>, led by former Assembly Speaker \u003ca href=\"https://digitaldemocracy.calmatters.org/legislators/anthony-rendon-120?_gl=1*186p1dm*_ga*MTM0NTExODk4NS4xNjkwMzA5NjYy*_ga_5TKXNLE5NK*MTcxMzg1MzY3OS45MzYuMS4xNzEzODU2ODUzLjU4LjAuMA..*_ga_GNY4L81DZE*MTcxMzg1Njg1MS4xMDAzLjAuMTcxMzg1Njg1MS4wLjAuMA..\">Anthony Rendon\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"postid":"mindshift_62400,mindshift_63052","label":"Related Stories "},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>“This feeling of loneliness and disconnection — I know when my kid is not feeling connected,” Schiavo, a member of the happiness committee, told CalMatters. “It’s when she’s alone in her room (doing homework), not playing with her cousin, not having dinner with her family.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The bill analysis cites a survey of 15,000 California high schoolers from Challenge Success, a nonprofit affiliated with the Stanford Graduate School of Education. It found that 45% said homework was a major source of stress and that 52% considered most assignments to be busywork.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The \u003ca href=\"https://challengesuccess.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Challenge-Success-Homework-White-Paper-2020.pdf\">organization also reported in 2020\u003c/a> that students with higher workloads reported “symptoms of exhaustion and lower rates of sleep” but that spending more time on homework did not necessarily lead to higher test scores.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Homework’s potential to also widen inequities is why Casey Cuny supports the measure. Cuny, an English and mythology teacher at Valencia High School and \u003ca href=\"https://www.cde.ca.gov/nr/ne/yr23/yr23rel81.asp\">2024’s California Teacher of the Year\u003c/a>, said language barriers, unreliable home internet, family responsibilities or other outside factors may contribute to a student falling behind on homework.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I never want a kid’s grade to be low because they have divorced parents, and their book was at their dad’s house when they were spending the weekend at mom’s house,” said Cuny, who plans to attend a press conference Wednesday to promote the bill.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In addition, as technology makes it easier for students to cheat — using artificial technology or chat threads to lift answers, for example — Schiavo said that the educators she has spoken to indicate they’re moving towards more in-class assignments.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Cuny agrees that an emphasis on classwork does help to rein in cheating and allows him to give students immediate feedback. “I feel that I should teach them what I need to teach them when I’m with them in the room,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11983855\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/031224-Happiness-Committee-FG-CM-2-.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11983855\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/031224-Happiness-Committee-FG-CM-2-.jpg\" alt=\"A woman sits at a table facing a woman and man seated at a larger table with microphones attached.\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/031224-Happiness-Committee-FG-CM-2-.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/031224-Happiness-Committee-FG-CM-2--800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/031224-Happiness-Committee-FG-CM-2--1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/031224-Happiness-Committee-FG-CM-2--160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/031224-Happiness-Committee-FG-CM-2--1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/031224-Happiness-Committee-FG-CM-2--1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Members of the Select Committee On Happiness And Public Policy Outcomes listen to speakers during an informational hearing at the California Capitol in Sacramento on March 12, 2024. \u003ccite>(Fred Greaves/CalMatters)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The bill said the local homework policies should have input from teachers, parents, school counselors, social workers and students; be distributed at the beginning of every school year; and be reevaluated every five years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Assembly Committee on Education is expected to hear the bill Wednesday. Schiavo said she has received bipartisan support, and so far, no official opposition or support has been listed in the bill analysis.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But she acknowledges that, if passed, the measure’s provision for parental input may lead to disagreements given the recent \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/newsletter/culture-wars-california-schools/\">culture war disputes\u003c/a> between Democratic officials and parental rights groups backed by some Republican lawmakers. “I’m sure there will be lively (school) board meetings,” Schiavo said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Nevertheless, she hopes the proposal will overhaul the discussion around homework and mental health. The bill is especially pertinent now that the state is also poised to \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/health/mental-health/2023/06/mental-health-funding-2/\">cut spending on mental health services for children\u003c/a> with the passage of \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/california-voter-guide-2024/prop-1-mental-health/\">Proposition 1\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Schiavo said the mother of a student with attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder told her that the child’s struggle to finish homework had raised issues inside the house, as well as with the school’s principal and teachers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“And I’m just like, it’s sixth grade!” Schaivo said. “What’s going on?”\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11983850/will-less-homework-stress-make-california-students-happier","authors":["byline_news_11983850"],"categories":["news_18540","news_8"],"tags":["news_32580","news_27626","news_28683","news_2998","news_3457","news_6387"],"affiliates":["news_18481"],"featImg":"news_11983856","label":"news_18481"},"forum_2010101905488":{"type":"posts","id":"forum_2010101905488","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"forum","id":"2010101905488","found":true},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"rainn-wilson-from-the-office-on-why-we-need-a-spiritual-revolution","title":"Rainn Wilson from ‘The Office’ on Why We Need a Spiritual Revolution","publishDate":1713993655,"format":"audio","headTitle":"Rainn Wilson from ‘The Office’ on Why We Need a Spiritual Revolution | KQED","labelTerm":{"site":"forum"},"content":"\u003cp>You’d be forgiven for associating Rainn Wilson primarily with Dwight Schrute, the overbearing, mansplaining geek on “The Office.” And in his bestselling book “Soul Boom” the three-time Emmy Award-nominated actor acknowledges the connection: “Why is the beet-farming, paper-selling, tangentially Amish man-baby with the giant forehead and short-sleeved mustard shirts writing about the meaning of life?” But then again, why wouldn’t he be curious? Wilson joins us to talk about his own journey with faith, why big philosophical questions make life worth living and why we need what he calls a “spiritual revolution.” And we’ll also hear why he thinks “The Office” is such a cultural mainstay, informing TV mockumentary trends, cringe humor and Gen Z artists like Billie Eilish.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":null,"status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1713993655,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":3,"wordCount":143},"headData":{"title":"Rainn Wilson from ‘The Office’ on Why We Need a Spiritual Revolution | KQED","description":"You’d be forgiven for associating Rainn Wilson primarily with Dwight Schrute, the overbearing, mansplaining geek on “The Office.” And in his bestselling book “Soul Boom” the three-time Emmy Award-nominated actor acknowledges the connection: “Why is the beet-farming, paper-selling, tangentially Amish man-baby with the giant forehead and short-sleeved mustard shirts writing about the meaning of life?” But then again, why wouldn’t he be curious? Wilson joins us to talk about his own journey with faith, why big philosophical questions make life worth living and why we need what he calls a “spiritual revolution.” And we’ll also hear why he thinks “The","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"Article","headline":"Rainn Wilson from ‘The Office’ on Why We Need a Spiritual Revolution","datePublished":"2024-04-24T21:20:55.000Z","dateModified":"2024-04-24T21:20:55.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}},"airdate":1714064400,"forumGuests":[{"name":"Rainn Wilson","bio":"actor who played Dwight Schrute on the TV show, \"The Office.\" His most recent book is \"Soul Boom: Why We Need a Spiritual Revolution.\""}],"sticky":false,"excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/forum/2010101905488/rainn-wilson-from-the-office-on-why-we-need-a-spiritual-revolution","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>You’d be forgiven for associating Rainn Wilson primarily with Dwight Schrute, the overbearing, mansplaining geek on “The Office.” And in his bestselling book “Soul Boom” the three-time Emmy Award-nominated actor acknowledges the connection: “Why is the beet-farming, paper-selling, tangentially Amish man-baby with the giant forehead and short-sleeved mustard shirts writing about the meaning of life?” But then again, why wouldn’t he be curious? Wilson joins us to talk about his own journey with faith, why big philosophical questions make life worth living and why we need what he calls a “spiritual revolution.” And we’ll also hear why he thinks “The Office” is such a cultural mainstay, informing TV mockumentary trends, cringe humor and Gen Z artists like Billie Eilish.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/forum/2010101905488/rainn-wilson-from-the-office-on-why-we-need-a-spiritual-revolution","authors":["243"],"categories":["forum_165"],"featImg":"forum_2010101905489","label":"forum"},"news_11983752":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11983752","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11983752","found":true},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"nurses-warn-patient-safety-at-risk-as-ai-use-spreads-in-health-care","title":"Nurses Warn Patient Safety at Risk as AI Use Spreads in Health Care","publishDate":1713832725,"format":"standard","headTitle":"Nurses Warn Patient Safety at Risk as AI Use Spreads in Health Care | KQED","labelTerm":{"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp>As the use of artificial intelligence proliferates in the health care industry, Bay Area unionized nurses call for greater transparency and say in how the technologies are deployed to minimize risks to patients.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At a protest on Monday outside of Kaiser Permanente’s San Francisco Medical Center, many in the estimated crowd of about 200 members of the California Nurses Association held red signs that read “Patients are not algorithms” and “Trust nurses, not AI.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“All health care corporations need to make sure that the technology is tested, it’s valid, and it’s not harmful to patients,” said Michelle Gutierrez Vo, a president at CNA, representing 24,000 nurses at Kaiser Permanente. “And before they deploy it, they need to sit down with nurses so that the nurses can review and make sure it’s congruent with patient safety.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11983730\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-33-BL-scaled.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11983730\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-33-BL-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"A woman wearing sun glasses and a red shirt holds a microphone in front of people while she stands behind a podium with a red sign in the background.\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-33-BL-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-33-BL-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-33-BL-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-33-BL-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-33-BL-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-33-BL-2048x1366.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-33-BL-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Michelle Gutierrez Vo, a registered nurse at Kaiser Permanente Medical Center in Fremont and a California Nurses Association president, speaks during a rally alongside fellow nurses from across California at Kaiser Permanente on Geary Blvd in San Francisco on April 22, 2024, to advocate for patient safety in the face of artificial intelligence technology. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Gutierrez Vo and other nurses worry that without proper oversight and accountability, health care employers will use AI to replace nurses and other medical professionals for profit, to the detriment of patient care. The nurses are calling for health care organizations to hit pause on the rollout of new AI technologies.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This comes as state and federal regulators race to catch up with the explosive growth of generative AI tools, which experts say also have great potential to improve health care delivery.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside postID=\"news_11976097,news_11980719,news_11982218\" label=\"Related Stories\"]Kaiser Permanente, one of the largest employers in San Francisco, Alameda and other Bay Area counties, has been an early adopter of AI. Company officials \u003ca href=\"https://about.kaiserpermanente.org/news/fostering-responsible-ai-in-health-care\">have said\u003c/a> they rigorously test the tools they use for safety, accuracy and equity.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Our physicians and care teams are always at the center of decision-making with our patients,” a Kaiser Permanente statement said in response to a KQED request for comment. “We believe that AI may be able to help our physicians and employees and enhance our members’ experience. As an organization dedicated to inclusiveness and health equity, we ensure the results from AI tools are correct and unbiased; AI does not replace human assessment.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>One program in use at 21 Kaiser hospitals in Northern California is the Advance Alert Monitor, which analyzes electronic health data to notify a nursing team when a patient’s health is at risk of serious decline. The program saves about 500 lives per year, according to the company.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11983733\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-02-BL-scaled.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11983733\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-02-BL-scaled.jpg\" alt='Many people dressed in scrubs hold red signs that say \"Trust Nurses Not AI\" in the street.' width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-02-BL-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-02-BL-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-02-BL-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-02-BL-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-02-BL-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-02-BL-2048x1366.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-02-BL-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Nurses from across California rally at Kaiser Permanente on Geary Blvd in San Francisco on April 22, 2024, to advocate for patient safety in the face of artificial intelligence technology. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>But Gutierrez Vo said nurses have flagged problems with the tool, such as producing inaccurate alarms or failing to detect all patients whose health is quickly deteriorating.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There’s just so much buzz right now that this is the future of health care. These health care corporations are using this as a shortcut, as a way to handle patient load. And we’re saying ‘No. You cannot do that without making sure these systems are safe,’” said Gutierrez Vo, a nurse with 25 years of experience at the company’s Fremont Adult Family Medicine clinic. “Our patients are not lab rats.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The U.S. Food and Drug Administration has authorized some AI-generated services before they go to market, but mostly \u003ca href=\"https://www.politico.com/news/2023/10/28/ai-doctors-healthcare-regulation-00124051\">without the comprehensive data\u003c/a> required for new medicines. Last fall, President Joe Biden issued an \u003ca class=\"c-link\" href=\"https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions/2023/10/30/executive-order-on-the-safe-secure-and-trustworthy-development-and-use-of-artificial-intelligence/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" data-stringify-link=\"https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions/2023/10/30/executive-order-on-the-safe-secure-and-trustworthy-development-and-use-of-artificial-intelligence/\" data-sk=\"tooltip_parent\">executive order\u003c/a> on the safe use of AI, which includes a directive to develop policies for AI-enabled technologies in health services that promote “the welfare of patients and workers.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s very good to have open discussions because the technology is moving at such a fast pace, and everyone is at a different level of understanding of what it can do and [what] it is,” said Dr. Ashish Atreja, Chief Information and Digital Health Officer at UC Davis Health. “Many health systems and organizations do have guardrails in place, but perhaps they haven’t been shared that widely. That’s why there’s a knowledge gap.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11983727\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-19-BL-scaled.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11983727\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-19-BL-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"A woman wearing sun glasses and a red shirt stands in a crowd with red signs in the background.\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-19-BL-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-19-BL-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-19-BL-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-19-BL-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-19-BL-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-19-BL-2048x1366.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-19-BL-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Sandra Larkin listens to speakers alongside fellow nurses from across California during a rally at Kaiser Permanente on Geary Blvd in San Francisco on April 22, 2024, to advocate for patient safety in the face of artificial intelligence technology. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>UC Davis Health is part of a \u003ca href=\"https://health.ucdavis.edu/news/headlines/uc-davis-health-and-leading-health-systems-launch-valid-ai/2023/10\">collaboration\u003c/a> with other health systems to implement generative and other types of AI with what Atreja referred to as “intentionality” to support their workforce and improve patient care.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We have this mission that no patient, no clinician, no researcher, no employee gets left behind in getting advantage from the latest technologies,” Atreja said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Dr. Robert Pearl, a lecturer at the Stanford Graduate Business School and a former CEO of The Permanente Medical Group (Kaiser Permanente), told KQED he agreed with the nurses’ concerns about the use of AI at their workplace.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Generative AI is a threatening technology but also a positive one. What is the best for the patient? That has to be the number one concern,” said Pearl, author of “ChatGPT, MD: How AI-Empowered Patients & Doctors Can Take Back Control of American Medicine,” which he said he co-wrote with the AI system.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I’m optimistic about what it can do for patients,” he said. “I often tell people that generative AI is like the iPhone. It’s not going away.”\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"At a protest in San Francisco, nurses say health care employers must ensure the artificial intelligence tools they use do not harm patients.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1713834971,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":19,"wordCount":1003},"headData":{"title":"Nurses Warn Patient Safety at Risk as AI Use Spreads in Health Care | KQED","description":"At a protest in San Francisco, nurses say health care employers must ensure the artificial intelligence tools they use do not harm patients.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"Nurses Warn Patient Safety at Risk as AI Use Spreads in Health Care","datePublished":"2024-04-23T00:38:45.000Z","dateModified":"2024-04-23T01:16:11.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"Y","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"sticky":false,"excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11983752/nurses-warn-patient-safety-at-risk-as-ai-use-spreads-in-health-care","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>As the use of artificial intelligence proliferates in the health care industry, Bay Area unionized nurses call for greater transparency and say in how the technologies are deployed to minimize risks to patients.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At a protest on Monday outside of Kaiser Permanente’s San Francisco Medical Center, many in the estimated crowd of about 200 members of the California Nurses Association held red signs that read “Patients are not algorithms” and “Trust nurses, not AI.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“All health care corporations need to make sure that the technology is tested, it’s valid, and it’s not harmful to patients,” said Michelle Gutierrez Vo, a president at CNA, representing 24,000 nurses at Kaiser Permanente. “And before they deploy it, they need to sit down with nurses so that the nurses can review and make sure it’s congruent with patient safety.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11983730\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-33-BL-scaled.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11983730\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-33-BL-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"A woman wearing sun glasses and a red shirt holds a microphone in front of people while she stands behind a podium with a red sign in the background.\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-33-BL-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-33-BL-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-33-BL-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-33-BL-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-33-BL-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-33-BL-2048x1366.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-33-BL-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Michelle Gutierrez Vo, a registered nurse at Kaiser Permanente Medical Center in Fremont and a California Nurses Association president, speaks during a rally alongside fellow nurses from across California at Kaiser Permanente on Geary Blvd in San Francisco on April 22, 2024, to advocate for patient safety in the face of artificial intelligence technology. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Gutierrez Vo and other nurses worry that without proper oversight and accountability, health care employers will use AI to replace nurses and other medical professionals for profit, to the detriment of patient care. The nurses are calling for health care organizations to hit pause on the rollout of new AI technologies.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This comes as state and federal regulators race to catch up with the explosive growth of generative AI tools, which experts say also have great potential to improve health care delivery.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"postid":"news_11976097,news_11980719,news_11982218","label":"Related Stories "},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Kaiser Permanente, one of the largest employers in San Francisco, Alameda and other Bay Area counties, has been an early adopter of AI. Company officials \u003ca href=\"https://about.kaiserpermanente.org/news/fostering-responsible-ai-in-health-care\">have said\u003c/a> they rigorously test the tools they use for safety, accuracy and equity.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Our physicians and care teams are always at the center of decision-making with our patients,” a Kaiser Permanente statement said in response to a KQED request for comment. “We believe that AI may be able to help our physicians and employees and enhance our members’ experience. As an organization dedicated to inclusiveness and health equity, we ensure the results from AI tools are correct and unbiased; AI does not replace human assessment.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>One program in use at 21 Kaiser hospitals in Northern California is the Advance Alert Monitor, which analyzes electronic health data to notify a nursing team when a patient’s health is at risk of serious decline. The program saves about 500 lives per year, according to the company.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11983733\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-02-BL-scaled.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11983733\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-02-BL-scaled.jpg\" alt='Many people dressed in scrubs hold red signs that say \"Trust Nurses Not AI\" in the street.' width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-02-BL-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-02-BL-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-02-BL-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-02-BL-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-02-BL-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-02-BL-2048x1366.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-02-BL-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Nurses from across California rally at Kaiser Permanente on Geary Blvd in San Francisco on April 22, 2024, to advocate for patient safety in the face of artificial intelligence technology. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>But Gutierrez Vo said nurses have flagged problems with the tool, such as producing inaccurate alarms or failing to detect all patients whose health is quickly deteriorating.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There’s just so much buzz right now that this is the future of health care. These health care corporations are using this as a shortcut, as a way to handle patient load. And we’re saying ‘No. You cannot do that without making sure these systems are safe,’” said Gutierrez Vo, a nurse with 25 years of experience at the company’s Fremont Adult Family Medicine clinic. “Our patients are not lab rats.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The U.S. Food and Drug Administration has authorized some AI-generated services before they go to market, but mostly \u003ca href=\"https://www.politico.com/news/2023/10/28/ai-doctors-healthcare-regulation-00124051\">without the comprehensive data\u003c/a> required for new medicines. Last fall, President Joe Biden issued an \u003ca class=\"c-link\" href=\"https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions/2023/10/30/executive-order-on-the-safe-secure-and-trustworthy-development-and-use-of-artificial-intelligence/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" data-stringify-link=\"https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions/2023/10/30/executive-order-on-the-safe-secure-and-trustworthy-development-and-use-of-artificial-intelligence/\" data-sk=\"tooltip_parent\">executive order\u003c/a> on the safe use of AI, which includes a directive to develop policies for AI-enabled technologies in health services that promote “the welfare of patients and workers.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s very good to have open discussions because the technology is moving at such a fast pace, and everyone is at a different level of understanding of what it can do and [what] it is,” said Dr. Ashish Atreja, Chief Information and Digital Health Officer at UC Davis Health. “Many health systems and organizations do have guardrails in place, but perhaps they haven’t been shared that widely. That’s why there’s a knowledge gap.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11983727\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-19-BL-scaled.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11983727\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-19-BL-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"A woman wearing sun glasses and a red shirt stands in a crowd with red signs in the background.\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-19-BL-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-19-BL-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-19-BL-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-19-BL-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-19-BL-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-19-BL-2048x1366.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-19-BL-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Sandra Larkin listens to speakers alongside fellow nurses from across California during a rally at Kaiser Permanente on Geary Blvd in San Francisco on April 22, 2024, to advocate for patient safety in the face of artificial intelligence technology. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>UC Davis Health is part of a \u003ca href=\"https://health.ucdavis.edu/news/headlines/uc-davis-health-and-leading-health-systems-launch-valid-ai/2023/10\">collaboration\u003c/a> with other health systems to implement generative and other types of AI with what Atreja referred to as “intentionality” to support their workforce and improve patient care.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We have this mission that no patient, no clinician, no researcher, no employee gets left behind in getting advantage from the latest technologies,” Atreja said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Dr. Robert Pearl, a lecturer at the Stanford Graduate Business School and a former CEO of The Permanente Medical Group (Kaiser Permanente), told KQED he agreed with the nurses’ concerns about the use of AI at their workplace.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Generative AI is a threatening technology but also a positive one. What is the best for the patient? That has to be the number one concern,” said Pearl, author of “ChatGPT, MD: How AI-Empowered Patients & Doctors Can Take Back Control of American Medicine,” which he said he co-wrote with the AI system.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I’m optimistic about what it can do for patients,” he said. “I often tell people that generative AI is like the iPhone. It’s not going away.”\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11983752/nurses-warn-patient-safety-at-risk-as-ai-use-spreads-in-health-care","authors":["8659"],"categories":["news_457","news_8","news_248"],"tags":["news_2114","news_28642","news_27626","news_18659","news_421","news_28963","news_30933"],"featImg":"news_11983729","label":"news"},"news_11983830":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11983830","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11983830","found":true},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"silicon-valley-house-seat-race-gets-a-recount","title":"Silicon Valley House Seat Race Gets a Recount","publishDate":1713952841,"format":"audio","headTitle":"Silicon Valley House Seat Race Gets a Recount | KQED","labelTerm":{"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp class=\"p1\">\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Ballots are being recounted in the race for California’s 16th Congressional house seat, which ended in a tie for second between Assemblymember Evan Low and Santa Clara County Supervisor Joe Simitian. One or both of them will move on to face former San Jose Mayor Sam Liccardo in November.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>KQED’s Guy Marzorati explains how the recount is working, and why it’s gotten a little ugly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\n\u003cp id=\"embed-code\" class=\"inconsolata\">\n\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC1324653751&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\n\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra and welcome to the Bay. Local news to keep you rooted. Election workers are recounting ballots in Silicon Valley after the race for California’s 16th congressional district seat ended. In a mind blowing tie, Assembly member Evan Lo and Santa Clara County Supervisor Joe Simitian both got second place, after each winning exactly 30,249 votes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>It took just such a insane confluence of events to even end up here. I mean, all the candidates have talked about, like, people coming up to them. I’m really sorry, I have to admit. Like, I didn’t cast a ballot like you. Could have been the difference today.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>KQED politics and government correspondent Guy Marzorati explains how the recount is going and why it’s gotten a little ugly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>So this is a district that stretches from Pacifica down through San Mateo County into Santa Clara County, Palo Alto, Mountain View, parts of San Jose all the way to Los Gatos. It’s been represented for about 30 years by Anna Eshoo. She decided last year she’s not going to run for another term. And so this opened up this really wild primary that’s gotten even more interesting recently.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Right. And can you just remind us to who are the players in this election?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah. So there was a lot of players in the primary. You could have made a football team out of it. There’s 11 candidates, running, but three ones who were the front runners, kind of from the beginning. And that was former mayor of San Jose, Sam Liccardo. Evan Lowe, a state assembly member, and Joe Simitian, who’s currently a Santa Clara County supervisor.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Those three, I guess we’re kind of the favorites going in, but there’s a lot of money spent more than $5 million by campaigns in the primary there, as millions more by outside groups just trying to get, you know, candidates names out there. But ultimately those were the, you know, top three finishers in the primary.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Remind us of this very crazy, unlikely. Everything that happened in terms of the results of this race, there were actually two runner ups who were basically caught up in a tie. Like, what are even the odds of that happening?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah, I’m I’m not a math person, but this you would need one of those massive calculators where they’re like front of it kind of ramps up at the end to figure this out. Basically. Yeah. Liccardo won the primary. He got a little bit more than 38,000 votes. And then Lo and Simeon each ended with 30,249 votes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>I mean, it’s just like the chances of that happening and the vote counts were coming in all through the month of March. People were, you know, following it. They would go back and forth. One person would lead the next day, then it would switch. But that’s where they ended up. And what that means is both Simitian and Lo advance of the general election.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>I know we have a top two primary, but the rules and the top two primaries, if there is a tie for a second, all three candidates, would advance for a general election, which is just incredibly rare. That only happened one time in the state history since we switched to a top two primary, and in this case, the first time where you’d have three Democrats on the ballot in the general election.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So this tie that we’re talking about between Evan Lo and Joe Simitian did that, then automatically trigger a recount.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Now, that’s what’s crazy is there is no automatic recount. In this race, that is the law for some local races, like in Santa Clara County and a local race, if it’s within 25 votes, it doesn’t even have to be tied though automatically to a recount. But in this case, there is no automatic recount.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>This is a federal race that stretches across two different counties, and it’s up to a voter to actually come forward and start the recount process. So in this case, you know, once the vote was certified in early April, there was a five day window where any voter could come forward and request a recount as long as they can pay for the recount themselves, then the recount can go forward.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>The first place we were looking was would the campaigns be interested in doing this? But both Evan Lowe and Joe Simeon were like, you know what? We’re good. Like, let’s just run it back in in November and see what happens. But then someone did come forward. Jonathan Padilla, who requested a recount in both of the counties and got this process started.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>How then, does a recount work? Exactly?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>What literally what’s happening is the ballots are being run back through the machine with the extra added element of PDA has requested to view a lot of election materials and ballots that were not counted the first time around.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And what are those ballots you’re referring to? Ballots that weren’t counted.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah. So this can, you know, range a lot of different ways, but how it’s actually played out so far in this recount is ballots relating to conditional voters. So if you’re someone who shows up to vote but is not registered even up to Election Day in California, you can just register on the spot and cast a, conditional on a provisional ballot.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>How that works is you fill out your information, you attest to the fact that you’re a citizen, that you’re 18 years old, that you’re not voting elsewhere, and then the registrar will go and double check all that information and ultimately count your ballot or not. In this case on the form, there was a box that needed to be checked. Just declare I’m a US citizen.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>There was also a signature field to say I’m a citizen, I’m 18, etc. in many of these ballots that are being challenged, the voters signed it but did not check that box and so the registrar did not count their ballots. We don’t know which way the voters voted in this race, but the registrar didn’t even go through the process of actually counting that vote. And so Padilla and his lawyers are challenging that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And this is just a very, very small number of ballots. Right. But when we’re talking about a tie, they maybe matter a lot. Right.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Only takes one. I mean, I think that’s definitely something to drive home in this case. In any election you’re going to look at, there might be a handful of votes that are kind of judgment calls. Maybe it’s a voter marked a certain choice, cross it out and marked another one. In this case, election workers literally review those. Those ballots go on like dual screens and two election workers view them and kind of make their determination.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>But those are kind of judgment calls trying to figure out, okay, what is this voter’s intent. And so in this case, you have, at least in Santa Clara County, about two dozen ballots that have been challenged. You have about a dozen more in San Mateo County, but that’s in the grand scheme of thousands and thousands of votes. So it’s not as if we’re finding a whole different result. But as you say, it only takes one vote to actually change what we’re all watching in this race.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Coming up, we’ll talk about who requested the recount and why. Some folks in the South Bay are suspicious of him. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Okay, so anyone can initiate a recount as long as you basically have the money to to fund it. But in this case, it’s even more interesting, in part because of who requested it and what we know of his background. Tell me a little bit more about who exactly this guy is, Jonathan Padilla.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah. So here’s where things I think pivot from, like schoolhouse Rock to something a little more spicy. Jonathan Padilla actually used to work for Sam Liccardo. He was the finance director when Liccardo ran for mayor of San Jose in 2014. He contributed to Lakatos campaign last year. He told me like, that’s the last contact he’s had with the campaign from then D.A., someone who stayed politically involved.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Even though he’s a tech entrepreneur, he doesn’t necessarily work in politics, is his day job. He’s been involved in politics. So when it was discovered this is the guy who is requesting the recount. That’s when questions started. Why is he doing this? Is there some advantage that he is looking for for Liccardo by requesting this recount?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Perhaps he wants a field to be narrowed to just two candidates. So that’s when the questions started to come in. And like, you know, what’s the political motivation behind going ahead with this process? You’ve heard a lot of critiques from Evan Lo’s campaign. They’ve even called him like a lackey for Sam Liccardo. They’re basically like, you’re doing Sam Liccardo bidding in this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Yeah. Well, what do we know about that? Why is he spending money to do this?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>This is what I’ve been trying to figure out for weeks. Padilla came out and said, you know, I just want to have all the votes counted.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jonathan Padilla: \u003c/strong>My positions have been super clear. We should count every single vote.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>I’ve been DMing with him like trying to get more information. Finally, earlier this week, he agreed to to chat on the phone, and he’s kind of stuck by this story that he is not doing this in any kind of coordination with Liccardo.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jonathan Padilla: \u003c/strong>This is about counting all the ballots. I have not spoken Mercado about this. I have not spoken anybody campaign about this. I had no meaningful contact with anybody in Liccardo campaign since I made my donation at the end of December.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>He said, you know, I have no idea how this is going to turn out. I’m really just interested in making sure that all the votes are counted. And something he talked about was he didn’t want any candidate to win the seat with like a plurality of votes. I mean, you could end up in a scenario with three candidates. Maybe someone gets, you know, in the high 30s and they can still win the seat.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>This is a really important seat. There’s no term limits. You can have this for decades. So it’s almost like, should it really be up to less than a majority of voters to make this decision? That’s his story. I mean, he is very involved in politics. It’s hard to believe there’s no political inklings or no kind of political motivations at all in here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>But that’s what Padilla said. He said he’s not getting anything out of this personally other than, you know, supporting democracy. And the Carlos campaign has said, we have nothing to do with this. We you know, we’re completely not involved. We’re happy to see the votes get counted. But we’re not involved with this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>How much is this costing Jonathan Padilla?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>It’s not just Padilla. There’s this whole outside organization called Count the Vote.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jonathan Padilla: \u003c/strong>And we’re a concern group of citizens that are acting with every intent to follow, every FEC guideline and law.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>It could be well over $200,000 when all is said and done, because the amount each county is charging is $12,000 a day. And literally, like I’ve seen the checks, they have to write a $12,000 check each day and give it to the registrar. And then that’s how the work goes forward for that day with a recount. Like you have to see it all the way through. If at any point they start making the payments, then the whole recount stops.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>And even if there were votes that were changed, none of it counts. There have been calls, you know, from Anna. Sue currently holds the seat. She wants them to release their donors. Who’s actually funding the recount? There have been a complaint filed with federal election regulators by a group of lawyers in Santa Clara County who have said, Sam Liccardo is really behind this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>This needs to be investigated what kind of coordination he has with this recount group. So there have been a lot of critiques hurled that Padilla’s way. And until we get more of the information about donations, what we know now is Padilla is someone who has supported Liccardo in the past, but there’s no smoking gun, you know, between the Liccardo campaign and Padilla.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So you have Padilla and Liccardo basically saying, we’re not in this together, and you have Evan Lowe saying, yeah, you are. Where’s Joe Simitian and all this?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>You know, Joe Simitian has not gone into the fray in this kind of back and forth.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Joe Simitian: \u003c/strong>Eventually the process will work itself out.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>He’s kind of said, I want to see this play out. And it’s actually kind of been a good look for him. I would have to say, you know, in this race where you have this mudslinging back and forth, when I’ve asked him his reaction to all these developments, he said, look, I just want to thank the election workers and we’ll see how this process plays out.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Joe Simitian: \u003c/strong>I’ll just politics at this point. And, my job is to stay focused on how I can best represent the folks in our district. That’s really my reaction.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>What do you make of the rhetoric here in this debate over the recount guy between all the candidates involved? And it just seems very heated, like, why does it matter to the average voter what arguments these people are slinging around?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>I think there’s definitely room for self-reflection on a lot of sides, in kind of how the rhetoric has escalated since this recount started. You had Evan Lowe’s campaign when the recount was announced, accused PDA of taking a page out of Trump’s playbook, attacking democracy, subverting the will of voters. I mean, ultimately, we’re counting ballots like the will of the voters will either be confirmed or newly illuminated.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>And then you also had Padilla, who said, you know, the fact that there was ballots challenge. He called it a travesty. He said the ballots were discovered. He said there was special interest influencing, you know, the election work going on in San Mateo County. Even when I asked him, like what specifically you’re talking about? He didn’t really have an answer. So I’m not trying to be the language police here, but like just taking a step back.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>These are all Democrats. I know all these folks were appalled by, you know, former President Trump’s attempts to overturn the results of the election, appalled by ideas like fake, fake electors. And I think if every bit of election gamesmanship becomes Trumpian, if it becomes undermining democracy, then it all might just be noise to voters when someone is actually trying to threaten democracy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, what’s next here, guy? What’s the timeline for this? When can we know the new results?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>By the end of this week. Santa Clara County election officials are confident they can wrap this up. Adjudicate all those, you know, challenge ballots, finish running everything through the machine and have a result. It might be even sooner in San Mateo County just because it’s there’s fewer votes there. So I think, you know, by the end of this week, we could know who’s actually going to the general election.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, as a politics reporter, I’m curious what big questions you’re left with from this situation. I mean, one thing I’m thinking about is that not any average person maybe has $200,000 lying around if they want a recount. Yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>And that’s, you know, what Padilla has actually been. That’s one of the things he’s been talking about a lot is like, why should it come to this that I have to put together this money to make the recount happen? At the local level, there are automatic recount laws. And so I wonder if this is, you know, going to kind of spur a conversation about maybe having a state law that triggers an automatic recount at some point.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>I mean, like I said, there’s in any election, there’s going to be votes where you have kind of a 5050, you know, should this vote be counted, what’s the voters intent? But in the grand scheme of things, they don’t really matter. But if you have a race like this where it’s tied, maybe that’s the impetus that could lead to some changes. Could lead to a state mandatory recount law.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, Guy, thank you so much as always.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>My pleasure.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>That was Guy Marzorati, politics and government correspondent for KQED. This 26 minute conversation with Guy was cut down and edited by senior editor Alan Montecillo. Ellie Prickett-Morgan is our intern.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>They scored this episode and added up the tape. Music courtesy of First Come Music Audio Network and Universal Production Music. The Bay is a production of listener supported KQED in San Francisco. I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, thanks so much for listening. Peace.\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"In this episode of The Bay, we talk about the unprecedented tie in California's 16th Congressional district election.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1713982999,"stats":{"hasAudio":true,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":66,"wordCount":3374},"headData":{"title":"Silicon Valley House Seat Race Gets a Recount | KQED","description":"In this episode of The Bay, we talk about the unprecedented tie in California's 16th Congressional district election.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"Silicon Valley House Seat Race Gets a Recount","datePublished":"2024-04-24T10:00:41.000Z","dateModified":"2024-04-24T18:23:19.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"Y","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"audioUrl":"https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G6C7C3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC1324653751.mp3?updated=1713902542","sticky":false,"excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11983830/silicon-valley-house-seat-race-gets-a-recount","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp class=\"p1\">\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Ballots are being recounted in the race for California’s 16th Congressional house seat, which ended in a tie for second between Assemblymember Evan Low and Santa Clara County Supervisor Joe Simitian. One or both of them will move on to face former San Jose Mayor Sam Liccardo in November.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>KQED’s Guy Marzorati explains how the recount is working, and why it’s gotten a little ugly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\n\u003cp id=\"embed-code\" class=\"inconsolata\">\n\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC1324653751&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\n\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra and welcome to the Bay. Local news to keep you rooted. Election workers are recounting ballots in Silicon Valley after the race for California’s 16th congressional district seat ended. In a mind blowing tie, Assembly member Evan Lo and Santa Clara County Supervisor Joe Simitian both got second place, after each winning exactly 30,249 votes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>It took just such a insane confluence of events to even end up here. I mean, all the candidates have talked about, like, people coming up to them. I’m really sorry, I have to admit. Like, I didn’t cast a ballot like you. Could have been the difference today.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>KQED politics and government correspondent Guy Marzorati explains how the recount is going and why it’s gotten a little ugly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>So this is a district that stretches from Pacifica down through San Mateo County into Santa Clara County, Palo Alto, Mountain View, parts of San Jose all the way to Los Gatos. It’s been represented for about 30 years by Anna Eshoo. She decided last year she’s not going to run for another term. And so this opened up this really wild primary that’s gotten even more interesting recently.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Right. And can you just remind us to who are the players in this election?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah. So there was a lot of players in the primary. You could have made a football team out of it. There’s 11 candidates, running, but three ones who were the front runners, kind of from the beginning. And that was former mayor of San Jose, Sam Liccardo. Evan Lowe, a state assembly member, and Joe Simitian, who’s currently a Santa Clara County supervisor.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Those three, I guess we’re kind of the favorites going in, but there’s a lot of money spent more than $5 million by campaigns in the primary there, as millions more by outside groups just trying to get, you know, candidates names out there. But ultimately those were the, you know, top three finishers in the primary.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Remind us of this very crazy, unlikely. Everything that happened in terms of the results of this race, there were actually two runner ups who were basically caught up in a tie. Like, what are even the odds of that happening?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah, I’m I’m not a math person, but this you would need one of those massive calculators where they’re like front of it kind of ramps up at the end to figure this out. Basically. Yeah. Liccardo won the primary. He got a little bit more than 38,000 votes. And then Lo and Simeon each ended with 30,249 votes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>I mean, it’s just like the chances of that happening and the vote counts were coming in all through the month of March. People were, you know, following it. They would go back and forth. One person would lead the next day, then it would switch. But that’s where they ended up. And what that means is both Simitian and Lo advance of the general election.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>I know we have a top two primary, but the rules and the top two primaries, if there is a tie for a second, all three candidates, would advance for a general election, which is just incredibly rare. That only happened one time in the state history since we switched to a top two primary, and in this case, the first time where you’d have three Democrats on the ballot in the general election.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So this tie that we’re talking about between Evan Lo and Joe Simitian did that, then automatically trigger a recount.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Now, that’s what’s crazy is there is no automatic recount. In this race, that is the law for some local races, like in Santa Clara County and a local race, if it’s within 25 votes, it doesn’t even have to be tied though automatically to a recount. But in this case, there is no automatic recount.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>This is a federal race that stretches across two different counties, and it’s up to a voter to actually come forward and start the recount process. So in this case, you know, once the vote was certified in early April, there was a five day window where any voter could come forward and request a recount as long as they can pay for the recount themselves, then the recount can go forward.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>The first place we were looking was would the campaigns be interested in doing this? But both Evan Lowe and Joe Simeon were like, you know what? We’re good. Like, let’s just run it back in in November and see what happens. But then someone did come forward. Jonathan Padilla, who requested a recount in both of the counties and got this process started.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>How then, does a recount work? Exactly?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>What literally what’s happening is the ballots are being run back through the machine with the extra added element of PDA has requested to view a lot of election materials and ballots that were not counted the first time around.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And what are those ballots you’re referring to? Ballots that weren’t counted.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah. So this can, you know, range a lot of different ways, but how it’s actually played out so far in this recount is ballots relating to conditional voters. So if you’re someone who shows up to vote but is not registered even up to Election Day in California, you can just register on the spot and cast a, conditional on a provisional ballot.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>How that works is you fill out your information, you attest to the fact that you’re a citizen, that you’re 18 years old, that you’re not voting elsewhere, and then the registrar will go and double check all that information and ultimately count your ballot or not. In this case on the form, there was a box that needed to be checked. Just declare I’m a US citizen.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>There was also a signature field to say I’m a citizen, I’m 18, etc. in many of these ballots that are being challenged, the voters signed it but did not check that box and so the registrar did not count their ballots. We don’t know which way the voters voted in this race, but the registrar didn’t even go through the process of actually counting that vote. And so Padilla and his lawyers are challenging that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And this is just a very, very small number of ballots. Right. But when we’re talking about a tie, they maybe matter a lot. Right.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Only takes one. I mean, I think that’s definitely something to drive home in this case. In any election you’re going to look at, there might be a handful of votes that are kind of judgment calls. Maybe it’s a voter marked a certain choice, cross it out and marked another one. In this case, election workers literally review those. Those ballots go on like dual screens and two election workers view them and kind of make their determination.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>But those are kind of judgment calls trying to figure out, okay, what is this voter’s intent. And so in this case, you have, at least in Santa Clara County, about two dozen ballots that have been challenged. You have about a dozen more in San Mateo County, but that’s in the grand scheme of thousands and thousands of votes. So it’s not as if we’re finding a whole different result. But as you say, it only takes one vote to actually change what we’re all watching in this race.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Coming up, we’ll talk about who requested the recount and why. Some folks in the South Bay are suspicious of him. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Okay, so anyone can initiate a recount as long as you basically have the money to to fund it. But in this case, it’s even more interesting, in part because of who requested it and what we know of his background. Tell me a little bit more about who exactly this guy is, Jonathan Padilla.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah. So here’s where things I think pivot from, like schoolhouse Rock to something a little more spicy. Jonathan Padilla actually used to work for Sam Liccardo. He was the finance director when Liccardo ran for mayor of San Jose in 2014. He contributed to Lakatos campaign last year. He told me like, that’s the last contact he’s had with the campaign from then D.A., someone who stayed politically involved.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Even though he’s a tech entrepreneur, he doesn’t necessarily work in politics, is his day job. He’s been involved in politics. So when it was discovered this is the guy who is requesting the recount. That’s when questions started. Why is he doing this? Is there some advantage that he is looking for for Liccardo by requesting this recount?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Perhaps he wants a field to be narrowed to just two candidates. So that’s when the questions started to come in. And like, you know, what’s the political motivation behind going ahead with this process? You’ve heard a lot of critiques from Evan Lo’s campaign. They’ve even called him like a lackey for Sam Liccardo. They’re basically like, you’re doing Sam Liccardo bidding in this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Yeah. Well, what do we know about that? Why is he spending money to do this?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>This is what I’ve been trying to figure out for weeks. Padilla came out and said, you know, I just want to have all the votes counted.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jonathan Padilla: \u003c/strong>My positions have been super clear. We should count every single vote.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>I’ve been DMing with him like trying to get more information. Finally, earlier this week, he agreed to to chat on the phone, and he’s kind of stuck by this story that he is not doing this in any kind of coordination with Liccardo.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jonathan Padilla: \u003c/strong>This is about counting all the ballots. I have not spoken Mercado about this. I have not spoken anybody campaign about this. I had no meaningful contact with anybody in Liccardo campaign since I made my donation at the end of December.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>He said, you know, I have no idea how this is going to turn out. I’m really just interested in making sure that all the votes are counted. And something he talked about was he didn’t want any candidate to win the seat with like a plurality of votes. I mean, you could end up in a scenario with three candidates. Maybe someone gets, you know, in the high 30s and they can still win the seat.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>This is a really important seat. There’s no term limits. You can have this for decades. So it’s almost like, should it really be up to less than a majority of voters to make this decision? That’s his story. I mean, he is very involved in politics. It’s hard to believe there’s no political inklings or no kind of political motivations at all in here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>But that’s what Padilla said. He said he’s not getting anything out of this personally other than, you know, supporting democracy. And the Carlos campaign has said, we have nothing to do with this. We you know, we’re completely not involved. We’re happy to see the votes get counted. But we’re not involved with this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>How much is this costing Jonathan Padilla?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>It’s not just Padilla. There’s this whole outside organization called Count the Vote.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jonathan Padilla: \u003c/strong>And we’re a concern group of citizens that are acting with every intent to follow, every FEC guideline and law.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>It could be well over $200,000 when all is said and done, because the amount each county is charging is $12,000 a day. And literally, like I’ve seen the checks, they have to write a $12,000 check each day and give it to the registrar. And then that’s how the work goes forward for that day with a recount. Like you have to see it all the way through. If at any point they start making the payments, then the whole recount stops.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>And even if there were votes that were changed, none of it counts. There have been calls, you know, from Anna. Sue currently holds the seat. She wants them to release their donors. Who’s actually funding the recount? There have been a complaint filed with federal election regulators by a group of lawyers in Santa Clara County who have said, Sam Liccardo is really behind this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>This needs to be investigated what kind of coordination he has with this recount group. So there have been a lot of critiques hurled that Padilla’s way. And until we get more of the information about donations, what we know now is Padilla is someone who has supported Liccardo in the past, but there’s no smoking gun, you know, between the Liccardo campaign and Padilla.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So you have Padilla and Liccardo basically saying, we’re not in this together, and you have Evan Lowe saying, yeah, you are. Where’s Joe Simitian and all this?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>You know, Joe Simitian has not gone into the fray in this kind of back and forth.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Joe Simitian: \u003c/strong>Eventually the process will work itself out.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>He’s kind of said, I want to see this play out. And it’s actually kind of been a good look for him. I would have to say, you know, in this race where you have this mudslinging back and forth, when I’ve asked him his reaction to all these developments, he said, look, I just want to thank the election workers and we’ll see how this process plays out.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Joe Simitian: \u003c/strong>I’ll just politics at this point. And, my job is to stay focused on how I can best represent the folks in our district. That’s really my reaction.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>What do you make of the rhetoric here in this debate over the recount guy between all the candidates involved? And it just seems very heated, like, why does it matter to the average voter what arguments these people are slinging around?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>I think there’s definitely room for self-reflection on a lot of sides, in kind of how the rhetoric has escalated since this recount started. You had Evan Lowe’s campaign when the recount was announced, accused PDA of taking a page out of Trump’s playbook, attacking democracy, subverting the will of voters. I mean, ultimately, we’re counting ballots like the will of the voters will either be confirmed or newly illuminated.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>And then you also had Padilla, who said, you know, the fact that there was ballots challenge. He called it a travesty. He said the ballots were discovered. He said there was special interest influencing, you know, the election work going on in San Mateo County. Even when I asked him, like what specifically you’re talking about? He didn’t really have an answer. So I’m not trying to be the language police here, but like just taking a step back.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>These are all Democrats. I know all these folks were appalled by, you know, former President Trump’s attempts to overturn the results of the election, appalled by ideas like fake, fake electors. And I think if every bit of election gamesmanship becomes Trumpian, if it becomes undermining democracy, then it all might just be noise to voters when someone is actually trying to threaten democracy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, what’s next here, guy? What’s the timeline for this? When can we know the new results?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>By the end of this week. Santa Clara County election officials are confident they can wrap this up. Adjudicate all those, you know, challenge ballots, finish running everything through the machine and have a result. It might be even sooner in San Mateo County just because it’s there’s fewer votes there. So I think, you know, by the end of this week, we could know who’s actually going to the general election.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, as a politics reporter, I’m curious what big questions you’re left with from this situation. I mean, one thing I’m thinking about is that not any average person maybe has $200,000 lying around if they want a recount. Yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>And that’s, you know, what Padilla has actually been. That’s one of the things he’s been talking about a lot is like, why should it come to this that I have to put together this money to make the recount happen? At the local level, there are automatic recount laws. And so I wonder if this is, you know, going to kind of spur a conversation about maybe having a state law that triggers an automatic recount at some point.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>I mean, like I said, there’s in any election, there’s going to be votes where you have kind of a 5050, you know, should this vote be counted, what’s the voters intent? But in the grand scheme of things, they don’t really matter. But if you have a race like this where it’s tied, maybe that’s the impetus that could lead to some changes. Could lead to a state mandatory recount law.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, Guy, thank you so much as always.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>My pleasure.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>That was Guy Marzorati, politics and government correspondent for KQED. This 26 minute conversation with Guy was cut down and edited by senior editor Alan Montecillo. Ellie Prickett-Morgan is our intern.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>They scored this episode and added up the tape. Music courtesy of First Come Music Audio Network and Universal Production Music. The Bay is a production of listener supported KQED in San Francisco. I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, thanks so much for listening. Peace.\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11983830/silicon-valley-house-seat-race-gets-a-recount","authors":["8654","227","11898","11649"],"categories":["news_8"],"tags":["news_33812","news_17968","news_33982","news_353","news_22598"],"featImg":"news_11922004","label":"news"},"news_62585":{"type":"posts","id":"news_62585","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"62585","found":true},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"ross-mirkarimi-in-hour-long-interview-live-at-9-a-m","title":"Audio, Transcript: Ross Mirkarimi Tells His Side of Story in Hour-Long Interview","publishDate":1334769602,"format":"aside","headTitle":"Audio, Transcript: Ross Mirkarimi Tells His Side of Story in Hour-Long Interview | KQED","labelTerm":{"term":6944,"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_62620\" class=\"wp-caption alignleft\" style=\"max-width: 138px\">\u003ca href=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/news/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2012/04/mirkarimi2postsentencemar19.jpg\">\u003cimg decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-62620\" title=\"mirkarimi2postsentencemar19\" src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/news/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2012/04/mirkarimi2postsentencemar19-225x300.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"138\" height=\"185\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Ross Mirkarimi after his sentencing (Mina Kim/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003caside class=\"pullquote alignleft\">\u003cstrong>\u003ca href=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/news/2012/04/18/ross-mirkarimi-in-hour-long-interview-live-at-9-a-m/#transcript\">Read a transcript of today’s interview with Ross Mirkarimi\u003c/a>\u003c/strong>\u003c/aside>\n\u003cp>Ross Mirkarimi appeared on KQED Public Radio’s Forum show this morning. In an emotional hour-long segment, Mirkarimi gave his account of the New Year’s Eve fight with his wife, Eliana Lopez, which led to his guilty plea to a misdemeanor charge of false imprisonment, his suspension as sheriff by Mayor Ed Lee, and the current attempt by Lee to remove him permanently from office for official misconduct.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The San Francisco Ethics Commission is scheduled to hold a \u003ca href=\"http://www.sfethics.org/ethics/2012/04/agenda-april-23-2012.html\">special meeting on Apr 23\u003c/a> to decide whether to recommend to the Board of Supervisors that the charges against Mirkarimi be sustained. Mirkarimi would be removed from office if 9 of 11 supervisors vote to do so. Mirkarimi is also challenging the suspension and the misconduct charges in court.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"http://www.kqed.org/a/forum/R201204180900\">Audio: Listen to Mirkarimi on Forum here\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!--more-->\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You can also read or leave comments on today’s Forum segment on the \u003ca href=\"http://www.kqed.org/a/forum/R201204180900\">show’s website\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Here’s our \u003ca href=\"http://soundcloud.com/kqed/sets/san-francisco-sheriff\">audio archive\u003c/a> of some key events in the case.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca name=\"transcript\">\u003c/a>And here’s an edited transcript of today’s Forum segment with Mirkarimi:\u003c/p>\n\u003cblockquote>\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Michael Krasny\u003c/strong>: What’s the story you want people to know?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Mirkarimi\u003c/strong>: Well I absolutely appreciate this opportunity to be here with you. This has been quite a nightmare, an ordeal, and the story that I would have told Mayor Lee on more than one occasion in which I had offered, is frankly, a story that has been eating at me for nearly four months that I haven’t been able to tell.\u003c/p>\n\u003caside class=\"pullquote alignleft\">I believe my silence, and until recently my wife’s silence, had allowed this story to be narrated by a lot of innuendo, rumor, and distortion…\u003c/aside>\n\u003cp>When I entered the office the second and last time with Mayor Ed Lee, there was very little preliminary discussion except just seconds where Mayor Lee simply told me that he has offered me an ultimatum to either resign or be suspended. The meeting would have ended right there if I did not ask him how he arrived at that decision and, again, offering him the details of the story of what happened and offering him the phone number of my wife so he could get an independent account by talking with her, since I had not seen Eliana or had contact with her since January 13th\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: You were prohibited under court orders.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: I am, and that’s been excruciating. But for the mayor, and anyone who is rendering a decision of this magnitude, I certainly had hoped he would take me up on the offer.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>What this is about is that I made a terrible mistake on December 31st. It was at 11:45am. We were on our way to lunch from our house, in our van. We were on our way to Delfina’s Pizza on California and Fillmore, and a horrible quarrel had started between my wife and I.\u003c/p>\n\u003caside class=\"pullquote alignleft\">What I did was turn our car around…against my wife’s wishes… which was the basis for the plea on false imprisonment.\u003c/aside>\n\u003cp>It was a somewhat familiar subject, about an impending trip she was going to take to Venezuela. She’d taken one six months earlier where she and my son Theo had been away, out of the country for over two months. That was excruciating to be apart from my family, and we had agreed that there would be a plan because my wife, who hadn’t had her green card at that time, there had been some immigration issues, and my insistence that there be at least an agreement and a plan.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And in the car on our way to lunch we began to argue about that, where I was seriously misrepresented, when I heard somewhere somebody said that I said I was powerful and you cant take my son away. That was a complete distortion. What I had been quoting was California law and how strong our laws are in California about parental rights. And that escalated in the discussion.\u003c/p>\n\u003caside class=\"pullquote alignleft\">The characterization that she was, in essence, imprisoned in any kind of way is completely false.\u003c/aside>\n\u003cp>So what I did was turn our car around, our minivan, our Dodge minivan, turned it around against my wife’s wishes. I decided not to go to lunch because I didn’t want us to be arguing in public about a very sensitive subject like that — and turn the car home, which incidentally was the basis for the plea on false imprisonment. It’s based on the fact that I turned the car around.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: It sounds very innocuous, as opposed to what false imprisonment sounds like.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: Well I’ll leave the interpretation to anybody, but you’re right, the false imprisonment analysis that I’ve been hearing from people has just been excruciating to hear.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The rest of the story is when I parked our car, I had already vented what I had to say, and so, it was off my chest and I had acted inappropriately. I swore at my wife in front of my son, I was angry that she wasn’t hearing me and I regret this terribly, but she was also extremely upset to a point where I had never seen her agitated before, in a way where it made my son extremely upset.\u003c/p>\n\u003caside class=\"pullquote alignleft\">I was incredibly ashamed. I still am. I’m trying to muster the energy to tell the story but that’s why I’m here, because I owe the people an explanation\u003c/aside>\n\u003cp>So as she was getting out of her passenger seat to unharness our son, who is nearly three, he was panicked, you could see the panic, and she was screaming and I reached over from the driver’s seat – still with my seatbelt on, to put my hand underneath her arm to try to guide her back into the passenger seat so we could just de-escalate this and talk this through.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It was when I put my hand underneath her arm that she got bruised, in that process. I was instinctively just inserting myself because I saw my wife upset in a way I hadn’t seen her upset, my son was just…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I thought I was being a father in a moment where I had not any premeditated thought. And I thought I was coming to – I was trying to remedy the situation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She then goes into our house. There had been no incident outside, as what news reports had indicated, and when I just tried to decompress for a moment or two in the car, I took my seatbelt off, locked the car up, and proceeded to go in the house.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The door was locked, I knocked on the door. Eliana, with our son, unlocks the door and opens it. And the day, although strained, there was also no sequestering of my wife. She came and went as she pleased. There was no argument inside the house, there was nothing outside the house.\u003c/p>\n\u003caside class=\"pullquote alignleft\">Do I think politics is involved? You cant deny it.\u003c/aside>\n\u003cp>The characterization that she was, in essence, imprisoned in any kind of way is completely false. There were stops at the grocery store or going to a local falafel restaurant for her, for me, alternating care of Theo that day, and on the next day as well. And she decided on the next morning to go see our neighbor.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>What she had informed me of, which was part of the quarrel in the car, on the late morning of December 31st, is that she had been seeing an attorney. and when I thought our conversation was about an extended stay in Venezuela, what I realized, not until the next morning, is that this was potentially a custody issue. Because it just hit me almost in an ambush kind of way is why is my wife seeing an attorney? And I had no idea who that attorney was.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: The irony is that now she is in Venezuela, and she’s extended her stay in Venezuela, although, as you said, she published an article really talking about her love – it was a love letter to you and to your marriage.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: It was a love letter and it’s the best thing I’ve received since January 13th, but you have to understand is her stay in Venezuela is something that I fully support, because to be suspended without pay, to try to break a person so that they can’t provide for their family…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: Well her father is ill, too, isn’t he?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: He has cancer, and I want them to be protected and that also goes to part of why I was so concerned and stressing my concern to her during the argument.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She’s high-profile in her own right in Venezuela, in Caracas, I’d just been elected Sheriff, there had been some very high-profile stories of kidnappings of Americans in Venezuela and of other people. I’ve been in Caracas, in Venezuela a few times and I’ve seen what security conditions are like for people in the middle-class or even above. I felt that we were being lax in not having a conversation about her taking trips to Venezuela and not thinking through the kind of, well, maybe its paranoid, maybe not, but I was doing what I thought was the right thing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: But the bruise, of course, became the center of focus here and it became the center of focus in large part because a former girlfriend came forward and said that you were rough with her and that exacerbated things, and so did your statement for which you apologized in which you also said that it was taken out of context about this being a private family matter.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: I never said that this was a private family matter and there were so many distortions early on that that became the branding. And I have to say, you and I have talked on this program before on air as well as off and I’ve never really been that shy to the media. But the tsunami that had hit me and my family before I was even charged was so overwhelming that frankly I just shut down. It was a wipe-out.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: And you were ashamed, too.\u003c/p>\n\u003caside class=\"pullquote alignleft\">No incident like this has ever happened before.\u003c/aside>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: I was incredibly ashamed. I still am. I’m trying to muster the energy to tell the story but that’s why I’m here, because I owe the people an explanation. I’ve been a public servant seven years, proudly, of an incredible organ of government in the board of supervisors, one of the greatest districts – District 5 – I think it was a great relationship what we had.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And then I was elected Sheriff, much to the surprise of many when I was outspent by one of my chief rival by more than two-to-one, and that we won. And so I owe it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And that’s whats been eating at me, is that while silently and privately and through the mechanics of dealing with the legal and now political administrative process, it’s finally, sort of, mustering that reserve of telling that story that hasn’t been told.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: Let me ask you, though. I want to get back to the ex-girlfriend. I know you have something, perhaps, to say about that that might clarify because there were two girlfriends. One that came forward and said that he’s a good guy and gentle…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: In fact, that was from Evelyn Nieves, where we were in a relationship for seven years…she, who I hadn’t even talked to in a while, offered that herself, which was published in the New York Times Bay Citizen, but it was never, ever, captured in the local press…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: What was captured was the woman who came up from Los Angeles to testify…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: Which I was looking forward to in the trial to really disspell. I thought it was a piling on, there was so much fabrication that had come up in this piling on that that in itself made me that much more motivated and looking forward to the trial because this piling on became so insurmountable that I had no choice but to look forward to a process, to either validate or to demystify what the truth was. And, quite frankly, allegations like that are things I take very seriously.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: Your wife said this is the second time this is happening and I tell Ross I want to work on this marriage, we need help. This is in the video that was released. Both of you feel at this point wanting to move forward and, well, make this marriage work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: My wife has been a champion, both here and abroad, 5,000 miles away in Venezuela in wanting to repair and rebuild our repair our relationship. And I thank God and thank the heavens that every night when I go to bed and pray to be a better man and wake up i the morning to hope to aspire to that change that’s what motivates. Because I believe that through an experience like this, to go through an ordeal like this, to be turned inside out for public dissection in the court of public opinion, I can only hope that I either just completely evaporate as a person or just better myself as a father, as a man, as a husband, as a sheriff…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: Its all about restorative justice in a way, I suppose, is what you’ve been saying implicitly all along, which you’ve been a strong advocate of. But what does your wife mean when she says this is the second time this has happened?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: No incident like this has ever happened before. She is referring to a quarrel that has been familiar and intense – verbally – about the extended trips to Venezuela. There had been three, and it’s a personal matter where I failed, in the last trip that she had taken, to not go to counseling, when we both agreed that counseling was the right way to sort through our misunderstandings and differences…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: She kind of said in the article that you were not all that willing to go to counseling because you were caught up in the electioneering for Sheriff…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: True. I procrastinated. I didn’t put the priorities of my marriage and my family in a way I should have, and that culminated into what I think became an avoidable situation on December 31st.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And to be honest with you, as soon as this happened, before i was even charged, I immediately sought a therapist hoping, and not knowing that I was going to be charged, that we could begin couples counseling because the flag, obviously, was a 2 x 4 across my forehead, and yet, even though we tried unsuccessfully through the district attorney and the courts to go to couples counseling during this ordeal, where we had been rejected, I decided to use that therapist myself to go over some of these issues – issues I refer to in my statement, in my apology that I made after my plea…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: You’ve also been doing anger management, haven’t you?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: Well, its part of that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: Is it helpful?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: Its incredibly humbling to be part of a larger caucus of men of all different ages, many who have committed very severe offenses, and not so severe. This provides a very rare perspective, whether I’m part of law enforcement, or sheriff, or not, it raises a lot of questions about how effective is our system in helping change behavior in a forward-thinking place like San Francisco.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: Your wife says this is a political conspiracy. She said that publicly on a couple of occasions, in fact she called it a coup d’etat or golpe de estado. Do you agree?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: My wife is incredibly passionate. and the tonal quality of politics in Venezuela and Caracas is a bit different. But that’s what I love about her.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>From the moment she discovered on January 4th when the neighbor, without Eliana’s consent, had decided to call the police and my wife panicked trying to reach me while I was at work at City Hall, and she ran down Grove Street, to meet me late in the afternoon outside of city hall to tell me in person what happened… I did not know about any of this, about her level of contact with the neighbor, I had no idea about a video, I had no idea about what became a runaway train and she was so panicked and so scared that she was asking me, telling me, begging me to do something about this because it’s a system she’s not familiar with, and she felt there had been an orchestration.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And over the last four months, the more we have learned in our own investigation and I think just in the subpoenaing of documents and everything else, my wife has arrived at a conclusion that it’s more than just the merits of a legal case.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: Do you concur or agree with that? Do you say you found new things that make you inclined to believe that?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: Do I think politics is involved? You cant deny it. This morphed from, in some respect, what was in the Hall of Justice to City Hall now to an administrative process. But as sheriff and as a member of the Board of Supervisors, and as a former member of law enforcement working with the district attorney for nine years, carrying a weapon, graduate of the San Francisco Police Academy, class president…I’ve always said from second one that I have to believe on the system, which is why I would never interfere with the system, whether i like or dislike what the outcome of the system is, I’ve held to the point that I have to believe in the system.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: Well let me jump in there for a moment because there is supposed to be a hearing today on whether or not the suspension should be overturned, scheduled for Friday. Today is an initial hearing on whether Dennis Herrera, the City Attorney, ought to be involved in this. Are you going ahead with that? Because its my understanding that Dennis Herrera has brought in different counsel for the ethics committee. That would change the whole landscape.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: This is completely unchartered territory. This has never happened before in San Francisco, and I apologize to San Franciscans for really helping cause this unprecedented and very painful kind of event. It is subscripted and unknown. So the Ethic Commission, which constitutes a panel of five political appointees, the Mayor, the Board of Supervisors, the City Attorney, the District Attorney, and the Assessor Recorder — they each have an appointee in the ethics commission — they will hear and make a recommendation to the Board of Supervisors.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It does beg question initially that when the city attorney was assigned to guide both the Ethics Commission and represent the Mayor against me, where is that firewall of ethics and what is just and fair? And I’ll give you another example, the City Attorney has been conducting an investigation, they have the power of subpoena, whereas my attorneys and me do not. So in the question of a criminal case, in the proceedings in the Hall of Justice where there is an investigation by the district attorney, where evidence that is collected is made discoverable, in this particular case, that has not been the case.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: So you’re going ahead against the district attorney…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: Yes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: San Francisco Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi…is in studio talking with us about the incident and talking about, really, the, well, he used the word tsunami. At first it was described by you, Ross, as a runaway train of innuendo and now it’s become nothing less than a tsunami…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: That was weeks ago, by the way. In fact it was one think tank that had calculated the number of stories that reported on me in a seven week, six week period. That was 302 stories just in the local press, compared to, say, another high-profile incident involving one of our former mayors or something else where the number was compared to 48.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So when you deal with that level of fact, and our story wasn’t being presented, that sculpts in the court of public opinion a very different scenario that we had to contend with.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: A couple of things that I mentioned have sculpted the story and made the narrative go a certain way also have to do with the charge of you and your wife apparently trying to convince Ivory Madison, and her husband made the charge — that the evidence should be destroyed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: Yeah, I think that that was a complete fabrication and fiction. I was frankly just blown away that I saw that in an op-ed. And I know Eliana’s attorney as well as my attorney were shocked. And I looked forward to take that head-on. I believe in the process. And I believe that before I was sworn in as Sheriff and interrupted I was informed later in the day on January 4th about the existence of this, I was in such a state of shock that the only thing I could think of was “holy cow, we need some legal representation, we need an attorney.” That was my level of thinking. And my wife was panicked because she felt completely betrayed by the woman next door, who turned out, in my wife’s opinion, that I discovered not until January 1st that this was her attorney…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: Not a friend or neighbor that she was confiding in, she went to her in mind that I’m going to an attorney…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: Yes, and this had been a developing conversation that had to do with, which I did not know about…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: Because they said the opposite of this. They said essentially…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: And I’m not surprised considering the fact of how this all mushroomed without my wife’s consent and in a way that really begs the question of what happened between what happened in conversation with the next door neighbor between January 1st and January 4th. What happened in those four days when there was no call to the authorities, no call to an advocacy organization out of concern for my wife or care for her condition.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The characterization that was wrongly reported that I had whisked my wife away on a trip to Monterey was completely false. We had pre-planned that trip before December 31st. Everybody that was close to me, preparing for the inauguration, knew that we were either going to go to San Diego or go to Monterey. And then I saw in a report that when we took that trip I was trying to sequester my wife. Going to trial, we would have been able to show the reservations that had been made and the preparations but none of this was accurately reported.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: Well, there was an article in The Guardian that I wanted to cite by Myrna Melgar who herself was a victim of domestic abuse, who said your wife was disempowered by your neighbor, by the police, by the media, even by those who oppose domestic abuse in many ways because everybody was offering help on no level except prosecuting you. Do you agree with that assessment?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: I absolutely do, because in the very moment of that panic that my wife exhibited when this all erupted, that I did not know about until some time later in the day on January 4th, it was clear that she had been betrayed by the neighbor and that she was absolutely scared. I will never forget her running down Grove street, where she ran many blocks to come see me to tell me what had happened. And then it just hit me like a thunderbolt because it was hard for me to fathom just what was occurring. I’d never been on the wrong side of the law, I’ve never needed an attorney before, I’d never committed a level that I was being accused of, of this kind of act.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: Let me go back to this interview with Christina Flores where she says there were three incidents of verbal abuse and a fourth of physical – your former girlfriend when you allegedly grabbed her arm during an argument. Do you want to go on record on that?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: Sure, I think it was a fabrication and fiction. Do I think we had an argument of verbal abuse? Yes, I do. I believe that that was well reported about her contention and, as you referenced earlier, a relationship that came to a natural end before I saw Ms. Flores, Christina Marie Flores, was with Evelyn Nieves for seven years, who took it upon herself to say there had never been any kind of unwanted contact by me at all. And nobody local accentuated that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I was looking forward to the trial, looking forward to the emails by Ms. Flores who, in essence, was trying to get across a way of getting even, trying to settle a score, that also had been reported when those emails were released. And I was looking forward to having that day. (\u003cstrong>Update\u003c/strong>: \u003ca href=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/news/2012/04/18/ross-mirkarimi-in-hour-long-interview-live-at-9-a-m/#flores\">\u003cstrong>See Christina Flores’ response here\u003c/strong>\u003c/a>.)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But, we put that case behind us and it was moving forward. Nonetheless, I walk away from any of these experiences and lessons wanting to really self-check myself making sure that nothing like this could ever happen again. So, that’s an important…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: It almost begins to sound, though, from some perspectives as your wife has said, that this begins to sound like some sort of conspiracy. But you have to say – Ivory Madison fabricating, her husband fabricating, Christina Flores fabricating- but these are people without political involvement in this at all.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: Well, I cant speak to that and you can deduce as well as anyone else what they would like. Coming to the core of what we’re talking about is that I made a terrible mistake and I took responsibility for that as it relates to me and my wife. And I did so with the plea that I did, and that plea, by the way, if for a non-violent, low-level resolution of a misdemeanor that did not inhibit my ability to be Sheriff or possess a weapon, and I entered into that with the express purpose that I would retain my position, of course, only to be confronted with another challenge as instigated by the mayor.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: I should also mention that the challenge that’s going forward is based on the fact that the episode occurred before assumed office, so, the idea legally is that it cant be the basis for a suspension, but also, a suspension for a misdemeanor is being argued that it does not constitute moral turpitude and is a denial of due process.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There is also a question of the language of the city charter defining official misconduct and whether that’s constitutional. I just want to get all that out there for listeners.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I also want to go to one of our listeners, here is Michael from Oakland who says “if he did not falsely imprison her, then why did he plea to it? I’m not buying this emotional minivan-driving soccer-dad act. that’s not the character of a top-cop.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: Well, that is exactly the facts of what happened, and that is also the facts of what my wife speaks to, too. This isn’t a story that is just coming from me, that is part of the 15 minute experience that occurred from when our argument – did only occur in our van as we left for lunch and me turning it around. And the plea of 236 False Imprisonment on a non-violent measure is exactly what characterizes how we arrived at that. I also take responsibility for the bruise that I caused. So that is all part of that whole 15-minute ordeal and nightmare.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: Let me read another e-mail from Ron who says the story that Ross tells is quite different than what has been reported in the press. If Ross’ story is true, then the City Attorney, the DA, and the Mayor have been overzealous in their prosecution of Ross. The false imprisonment plea is a joke. What else I find troubling is the horrible legal representation Ross has received. Why not just come forward earlier and explain your side of the story than hide behind legal maneuvers? This seems more honest and I think more people would understand. If Ross and Eliana wish to see each other and work on their marriage, who are we to interfere?”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I’m sure you’ll agree with that last sentiment but what about his point about why not come forward from the beginning?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: I wish I had. I gotta tell you. One of the things that really ate at me was the notion that I said domestic violence was a private family matter. I never said that. And that became a branding that just blew me away.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And as you said in your opening, as a supervisor, and even before being supervisor, I’d been an ardent champion, enthusiastically. I think people who are elected are allies of the domestic violence advocacy community and making sure that domestic violence is extinguished in this city. I took that to heart at my seven years at the budget committee, staying late at many budget committees to fight for add-backs. I never ceased to trumpet the needs of the community, especially as chair of public safety.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So, I wish I had spoke earlier. And as I was trying to describe with you earlier, I’ve never been that insecure or shy with the press, where I grew at a comfort level to speak to the press, this walloped me to the point where I was just down. And that, on top of the advice of my attorney at the time, and I tend to agree that it was a bad decision to not speak to the press, we should have, and I regret that it didn’t happen earlier.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: when you did come forward and make that apology, though, publicly, and spoke about your shame and spoke about the cost that this has had on you personally, you said I’m not the person I thought I was and this is a dark world now and admitted you had anger and arrogance issues…what did you mean by saying ‘I’m not the person I thought I was’?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: Oh, my god. I’m destroyed inside out…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: You thought you were tougher, more elastic, resilient?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: No. I thought I was more tender, more caring, not as gruff or abrasive, not as testosterone-packed. I think that people understand who I am, I’ve never been part of any kind of machine, per se. I’ve always been a guy driven by my tenacity and determination. I’m what people call tenacious and some think that is just maybe overbearing…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: A euphemistic word for arrogance, perhaps? Here is one commenter who says “both Ross and his supporters suggest and continue to suggest that the sole motive for his persecution is political, what Ross believes to be political is just people’s spite towards him”. People love you or hate you, and if they hate you its because of tenacity, arrogance, and maybe those personal qualities more than political.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: For me it’s a survival strategy as it related to me trying to succeed in politics. I failed as a member of the Board of Supervisors in trying to cultivate relationships in a way that I think others had made it a priority with other elected and fellow supervisors. I was there to do a job. And this is a speech that I would give to staffers and interns, talking about how government doesn’t work and that it’s my determination and our opportunity to show government can work better for the people and their cause.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: What would be the political motivation of those who you surmise to be your political enemies? Because, really, Mike Hennessy gave you his full support and said you were allied politically….\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: And he’s right…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: So why would they see you as a political enemy?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: Well, I don’t think the ember stopped smoldering for many who fought to support another candidate after the November election. It was a hard-fought race. We had a strong grassroots effort, under-resourced in many ways, and we had to muster the kind of energy that was people-driven. And so others that expected a different turnout…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: So your political enemies would be those who were defeated?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: Not necessarily. I can’t speak to other people’s motivations or what’s catalyzed this. Some people may just be reacting to what they read in the press, what they think is the truth, how they may feel about me even before this happened on December 31st, and others may have drawn different conclusions. So I can’t really say that there’s a smoking gun right then and there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And that’s why when you asked me the question about the coup d’etat — everything is bubbled-up in such a way that this has been a nightmare for me and my family. But does that deter my ability from being an effective sheriff, from realizing the dream and vision that Sheriff Mike Hennessy put forward for over 30 years. And that is that we are about tpublic safety, but we’re about the power of redemption, and that’s what the criminal justice system should be in California…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: This is a city, though, that is known for that. Known for its liberal views on criminal justice…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: we could do a better job, to be honest with you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: Its also known for cracking down hard on domestic violence.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: As it completely should, which is why I want to continue to be that champion and come with that voice and perspective that I think gives me even greater value in doing so.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: Let me bring in some callers and we’ll begin with Casey, good morning.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>CASEY\u003c/strong>: I’m more interested in why the state is bringing forward the charges without his wife, the injured party, bringing the charges. I think it’s something the police do on a regular basis, in probably 75% of the things they prosecute and I think it’s immoral. And I wonder what the sheriff thinks about that after his case.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: Well, my wife never did want to bring charges. As a matter of fact, I believe it was the day after on January 5th when an inspector, or somebody from the police department had contacted her to see if everything was okay. And she took it upon herself to say everything was fine, I never wanted this to happen. She didn’t call 911. She told the inspector she would if she thought that there was any kind of danger.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>What was reported by the neighbors is diametrically, profoundly different than what had been shared between Eliana and the neighbor and what Eliana then told somebody over the phone from law enforcement, or on behalf of a domestic violence advocacy organization.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: I think we have a neighbor of yours on here. Roy, join us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>ROY\u003c/strong>: I think he should pursue a career as a fiction writer. He sounds like a pathological liar.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: Just based on the severity of that comment, what can I say? And I’m sorry I’m emotional, but when it comes to my family, my son, the way they have been leveraged against me, I am emotional about it. It’s not easy for me to tell this story. I haven’t told it in four months.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When my son who was kept away from me for no reason – when one night when I was staying at Mayor Agnos’ house, he and his wife had been amazing to me allowing me to camp out there for a little bit, my wife called in a complete panic because my son had broken out in a complete rash and had respiratory problems and thought that she was going to have to rush him to the hospital to Kaiser. My immediate instinct was that I was going to help her but I had to be pulled back because of the stay-away.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It turned out to be, based on the testimony of the day-care provider the next day that due to the separation of my son and I, my son was manifesting that separation in allergic reaction. And when we went to family court, despite the interference by the DA to try to block me from seeing my son, where eventually we won and I was able to see him for two hours a day, all that reaction and the allergy and rash disappeared completely. And so, it was so painstaking that I’m still living it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I apologize that if I’m sounding emotional and I’m not the tough guy sheriff you want me to be, I don’t think there is another way to pause\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: You don’t have to apologize for being emotional. Let me get another caller on the line. Scott, you’re on.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>SCOTT\u003c/strong>: I just wanted to thank Mr. Mirkarimi for coming on air and talking about what is going on. You have nothing to apologize about, a real man shows his emotions and is able to do that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I just want to tell you that I’m going through the same thing and it is extremely excruciating to be away from your family. And I do think that you’re being sabotaged by the neighbor and maybe your wife was just emotional when they talked to her. And the neighbor went and called the newspaper before she even called the police. If she had real concern for your wife…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: Let me thank the caller for that. Here is another listener who says that ‘listening to Mr. Mirkarimi has been very triggering to me. I’m in the process of divorcing a man who to hear tell the story of our marriage sounds eerily like your guest this morning. He, too had many incidents in the car, he too paints me as being hysterical and out of control when he retells the story. It’s a common tactic for men who are emotionally and verbally abusive to start arguments in the car. It’s a confined space in which the victim is truly imprisoned. I am struck by the skill with which Mr. Mirkarimi suddenly shifts blame to his wife. He was wrong and all I heard in his telling of the story were justifications for his actions. Sir, placing your hand on your wife’s arm does not cause a bruise, violently trying to restrain somebody does. Mr. Mirkarimi does not need anger management classes, abuse is not an anger problem, abuse is a problem of entitlement, entitlement to control the actions of another. Couples counseling does not help in these situations and can only make the situations worse. Counseling focuses on communication between a couple, abuse is not communication problem, it is an entitlement problem.’\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: I agree. I completely agree with that. And again, I’m not making any justification, I’m telling you the story as it happened.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And i think that the stream where my wife is coming from, it is consistent where shes coming from. And it is an entitlement question that i abused and was wrong for that. but i also want to explain that there was somebody else in the car. It was my son. And I’m not going to dismiss the fact the fact the i was scared and panicked for him and he was agitated as was my wife at that moment in that short period of time. May i remind you that this only lasted 15 minutes. And I made a mistake terrible as it is. i cannot say if couples counseling could help or not, that’s a projection.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: I think that depends on the couple…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: I think it does depend on the couple and that’s what I mean. It is something my wife wanted and something I failed to participate in.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: Can I ask you what’s in your heart right now? I know you’ve made it clear that you love your wife but she set all this in motion by taking this case next…..do you resent her for doing that? It would be naturally human if you did.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: No, I don’t. This is all my responsibility and I take accountability to it. she made a tremendous sacrifice coming from Venezuela to this city and a lifestyle that was unfamiliar to her. I think to expect her to mold into a lifestyle. I don’t expect her to come into a relationship where there hadn’t been too much pre-courting, and so we’ve been married about three years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: How long was the courtship? It was pretty short as I recall.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: It was less than six months, and yet we were absolutely determined to make it work and celebrating the fact that we had our first child at home, we had a home birth. and the meaning of what we had at our house is something that we still cherish a great deal. Being part of a process when you have a home birth like that is something you never forget\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: Let me read a web comment. It says, “this is nothing than a typical family process of learning how to cope with powerful feelings, which is being exploited by powerful people. I’m so sorry to Ross and his family, I cannot imagine having my children taken away from me and I suspect all the Ross haters share this essential emotion and would have been just as emotionally charged as when the argument in the family car occurred.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Here is a caller, Joanne, join us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>JOANNE\u003c/strong>. I liked your politics a lot and I’m not sure how i feel about the case but my feeling is that Ed Lee kind of had given everything that was going on had no choice but to suspend you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: I think it would have been more prudent and professional had he taken me up on my offer to hear my side of the story and the independent account of my wife before he arrived at his decision. So, I understand that the mayor has to do what he has to. I don’t have an ill will about that. but as it relates to process as somebody who is a fellow elected on a city-wide stage, and somebody who has been part of law enforcement and part of the legislative body of the city, what they have done and how they’ve done it, in my opinion is unlawful.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: Let me read some responses. Tony says, “I’ve heard enough, apology accepted. New York made a mistake drumming out Elliot Spitzer when he was Governor and Wall street really needed policing. while Oakland turned its cops against its people, I remember Ross standing with the occupiers to prevent violence. We need someone like him to be Sheriff.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Another listener, Steve, says, “I voted to Ross because of his promise to continue Sheriff Mike Hennessy’s legacy of rehabilitation over retribution, when the news first broke that he was charged with domestic violence i was heartbroken, and wanted to hear from him, not the media, what happened, but I understood the criminal justice system and that he was being advised not to speak. Thank you for sharing your side and thank you Sheriff for taking responsibility, let’s move on.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That’s your feeling isn’t it?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: I cannot tell you what its been like in this climate, the press, and how people have arrived to certain places. Maybe I’m projecting but it made me pretty much scared of my own shadow as I was going out in public. But people kept encouraging me to fight.\u003c/p>\u003c/blockquote>\n\u003cp>\u003ca name=\"flores\">\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>Christina Flores responds to the Mirkarimi interview\u003c/strong>: \u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>One person who didn’t appreciate \u003ca href=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/news/2012/04/18/ross-mirkarimi-in-hour-long-interview-live-at-9-a-m/\">Ross Mirkarimi’s hour-long interview on KQED\u003c/a> yesterday was Christina Flores. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As mentioned in the segment, Flores is the ex-girlfriend of Mirkarimi who, a few weeks after Mirkarimi’s arrest on domestic violence charges, filed a police report about a similar-sounding 2008 incident that she said involved Mirkarimi grabbing her arm and leaving a bruise. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Prosecutors wanted Flores to testify against Mirkarimi in the trial; Mirkarimi’s lawyer not so much. After a hearing, \u003ca href=\"http://www.baycitizen.org/ross-mirkarimi-3/story/stunning-testimony-mirkarimis-ex/\">Judge Garrett Wong ruled that Flores’ testimony was admissible\u003c/a>. “The evidence is extremely probative” and “shows a propensity” for violence by Mirkarimi, the Bay Citizen reported Wong as saying.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The case, however, never went to trial, as Mirkarimi pled on a lesser charge of False Imprisonment, for which he was sentenced to three years of probation, ordered to take domestic violence classes, and ordered to perform community service.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Here again is what Mirkarimi said about Flores in the inteview:\u003c/p>\n\u003cblockquote>\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Host Michael Krasny\u003c/strong>: Let me go back to this interview with Christina Flores where she says there were three incidents of verbal abuse and a fourth of physical – your former girlfriend when you allegedly grabbed her arm during an argument. Do you want to go on record on that?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Mirkarimi\u003c/strong>: Sure, I think it was a fabrication and fiction. Do I think we had an argument of verbal abuse? Yes, I do. I believe that that was well reported about her contention and, as you referenced earlier, a relationship that came to a natural end before I saw Ms. Flores, Christina Marie Flores, was with Evelyn Nieves for seven years, who took it upon herself to say there had never been any kind of unwanted contact by me at all. And nobody local accentuated that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I was looking forward to the trial, looking forward to the emails by Ms. Flores who, in essence, was trying to get across a way of getting even, trying to settle a score. That also had been reported when those emails were released. And I was looking forward to having that day.\n\u003c/p>\u003c/blockquote>\n\u003cp>Upon hearing that, Ms. Flores left a comment on this blog objecting to Mirkarimi’s characterization of her. In order to verify that the comment was really posted by her, we contacted her, and she had this to say about Mirkarimi’s comments about her testimony: \u003c/p>\n\u003cblockquote>\u003cp>I was shocked. I really was appalled that he was calling me basically a liar and saying that I fabricated this story…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He sat there and said that I fabricated this, I lied about this, but I was the only one in court under oath in front of the judge, and for two days they went back and forth at me, trying to hear the story, and…after that the judge deemed that not only was my testimony important in the case, but it would show a history of what’s going on. [The judge] made a judgment that it’s important to show a history of abuse of female romantic partners…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So as far as [Mirkarimi] saying on your show he was looking forward to it, that’s not true.\u003c/p>\n\u003c/blockquote>\n\u003cp>Flores says she has also talked to former romantic partners of Mirkarimi who have stories about his temper, but that they don’t want to come forward publicly. She does say, however, that a woman she cited in the comment she left as being a disgruntled ex of Mirkarimi’s is now talking to the press…We’ll let you Google that on your own…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Whether any of this has any legal relevance at this point — the case was ended when Mirkarimi was sentenced — is doubtful. Politically, however, who knows? The Ethics Commission hearing is slated for next week…\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":null,"status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1685489311,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":154,"wordCount":8387},"headData":{"title":"Audio, Transcript: Ross Mirkarimi Tells His Side of Story in Hour-Long Interview | KQED","description":"Read a transcript of today's interview with Ross Mirkarimi Ross Mirkarimi appeared on KQED Public Radio's Forum show this morning. In an emotional hour-long segment, Mirkarimi gave his account of the New Year's Eve fight with his wife, Eliana Lopez, which led to his guilty plea to a misdemeanor charge of false imprisonment, his suspension","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"Audio, Transcript: Ross Mirkarimi Tells His Side of Story in Hour-Long Interview","datePublished":"2012-04-18T17:20:02.000Z","dateModified":"2023-05-30T23:28:31.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"Y","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}},"authorsData":[{"type":"authors","id":"80","meta":{"index":"authors_1591205172","id":"80","found":true},"name":"Jon Brooks","firstName":"Jon","lastName":"Brooks","slug":"jbrooks","email":"jbrooks@kqed.org","display_author_email":true,"staff_mastheads":["science"],"title":"Digital Editor","bio":"Jon Brooks is a former Digital Editor for KQED Science. He is the former editor of KQED’s daily news blog, News Fix. In 2014, he won a California Journalism Award for his coverage of ride services like Uber and Lyft and the taxi industry. A veteran blogger, he previously worked for Yahoo! in various news writing and editing roles. Jon is also a playwright whose work has been produced in San Francisco, New York, Italy, and around the U.S. He has written about film for his own blog and studied film at Boston University.","avatar":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/98887f7ed1c876ed414d4c915e969584?s=600&d=blank&r=g","twitter":"jbrooksfoy","facebook":null,"instagram":null,"linkedin":null,"sites":[{"site":"arts","roles":["Contributor","editor"]},{"site":"news","roles":["author"]},{"site":"futureofyou","roles":["administrator"]},{"site":"mindshift","roles":["editor"]},{"site":"stateofhealth","roles":["editor"]},{"site":"science","roles":["administrator"]},{"site":"quest","roles":["editor"]}],"headData":{"title":"Jon Brooks | KQED","description":"Digital Editor","ogImgSrc":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/98887f7ed1c876ed414d4c915e969584?s=600&d=blank&r=g","twImgSrc":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/98887f7ed1c876ed414d4c915e969584?s=600&d=blank&r=g"},"isLoading":false,"link":"/author/jbrooks"}],"imageData":{"ogImageSize":{},"twImageSize":{},"twitterCard":"summary"},"tagData":{"tags":["Ross Mirkarimi","San Francisco"]}},"templateType":"standard","featuredImageType":"standard","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/62585/ross-mirkarimi-in-hour-long-interview-live-at-9-a-m","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_62620\" class=\"wp-caption alignleft\" style=\"max-width: 138px\">\u003ca href=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/news/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2012/04/mirkarimi2postsentencemar19.jpg\">\u003cimg decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-62620\" title=\"mirkarimi2postsentencemar19\" src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/news/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2012/04/mirkarimi2postsentencemar19-225x300.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"138\" height=\"185\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Ross Mirkarimi after his sentencing (Mina Kim/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003caside class=\"pullquote alignleft\">\u003cstrong>\u003ca href=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/news/2012/04/18/ross-mirkarimi-in-hour-long-interview-live-at-9-a-m/#transcript\">Read a transcript of today’s interview with Ross Mirkarimi\u003c/a>\u003c/strong>\u003c/aside>\n\u003cp>Ross Mirkarimi appeared on KQED Public Radio’s Forum show this morning. In an emotional hour-long segment, Mirkarimi gave his account of the New Year’s Eve fight with his wife, Eliana Lopez, which led to his guilty plea to a misdemeanor charge of false imprisonment, his suspension as sheriff by Mayor Ed Lee, and the current attempt by Lee to remove him permanently from office for official misconduct.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The San Francisco Ethics Commission is scheduled to hold a \u003ca href=\"http://www.sfethics.org/ethics/2012/04/agenda-april-23-2012.html\">special meeting on Apr 23\u003c/a> to decide whether to recommend to the Board of Supervisors that the charges against Mirkarimi be sustained. Mirkarimi would be removed from office if 9 of 11 supervisors vote to do so. Mirkarimi is also challenging the suspension and the misconduct charges in court.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"http://www.kqed.org/a/forum/R201204180900\">Audio: Listen to Mirkarimi on Forum here\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!--more-->\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You can also read or leave comments on today’s Forum segment on the \u003ca href=\"http://www.kqed.org/a/forum/R201204180900\">show’s website\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Here’s our \u003ca href=\"http://soundcloud.com/kqed/sets/san-francisco-sheriff\">audio archive\u003c/a> of some key events in the case.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca name=\"transcript\">\u003c/a>And here’s an edited transcript of today’s Forum segment with Mirkarimi:\u003c/p>\n\u003cblockquote>\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Michael Krasny\u003c/strong>: What’s the story you want people to know?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Mirkarimi\u003c/strong>: Well I absolutely appreciate this opportunity to be here with you. This has been quite a nightmare, an ordeal, and the story that I would have told Mayor Lee on more than one occasion in which I had offered, is frankly, a story that has been eating at me for nearly four months that I haven’t been able to tell.\u003c/p>\n\u003caside class=\"pullquote alignleft\">I believe my silence, and until recently my wife’s silence, had allowed this story to be narrated by a lot of innuendo, rumor, and distortion…\u003c/aside>\n\u003cp>When I entered the office the second and last time with Mayor Ed Lee, there was very little preliminary discussion except just seconds where Mayor Lee simply told me that he has offered me an ultimatum to either resign or be suspended. The meeting would have ended right there if I did not ask him how he arrived at that decision and, again, offering him the details of the story of what happened and offering him the phone number of my wife so he could get an independent account by talking with her, since I had not seen Eliana or had contact with her since January 13th\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: You were prohibited under court orders.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: I am, and that’s been excruciating. But for the mayor, and anyone who is rendering a decision of this magnitude, I certainly had hoped he would take me up on the offer.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>What this is about is that I made a terrible mistake on December 31st. It was at 11:45am. We were on our way to lunch from our house, in our van. We were on our way to Delfina’s Pizza on California and Fillmore, and a horrible quarrel had started between my wife and I.\u003c/p>\n\u003caside class=\"pullquote alignleft\">What I did was turn our car around…against my wife’s wishes… which was the basis for the plea on false imprisonment.\u003c/aside>\n\u003cp>It was a somewhat familiar subject, about an impending trip she was going to take to Venezuela. She’d taken one six months earlier where she and my son Theo had been away, out of the country for over two months. That was excruciating to be apart from my family, and we had agreed that there would be a plan because my wife, who hadn’t had her green card at that time, there had been some immigration issues, and my insistence that there be at least an agreement and a plan.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And in the car on our way to lunch we began to argue about that, where I was seriously misrepresented, when I heard somewhere somebody said that I said I was powerful and you cant take my son away. That was a complete distortion. What I had been quoting was California law and how strong our laws are in California about parental rights. And that escalated in the discussion.\u003c/p>\n\u003caside class=\"pullquote alignleft\">The characterization that she was, in essence, imprisoned in any kind of way is completely false.\u003c/aside>\n\u003cp>So what I did was turn our car around, our minivan, our Dodge minivan, turned it around against my wife’s wishes. I decided not to go to lunch because I didn’t want us to be arguing in public about a very sensitive subject like that — and turn the car home, which incidentally was the basis for the plea on false imprisonment. It’s based on the fact that I turned the car around.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: It sounds very innocuous, as opposed to what false imprisonment sounds like.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: Well I’ll leave the interpretation to anybody, but you’re right, the false imprisonment analysis that I’ve been hearing from people has just been excruciating to hear.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The rest of the story is when I parked our car, I had already vented what I had to say, and so, it was off my chest and I had acted inappropriately. I swore at my wife in front of my son, I was angry that she wasn’t hearing me and I regret this terribly, but she was also extremely upset to a point where I had never seen her agitated before, in a way where it made my son extremely upset.\u003c/p>\n\u003caside class=\"pullquote alignleft\">I was incredibly ashamed. I still am. I’m trying to muster the energy to tell the story but that’s why I’m here, because I owe the people an explanation\u003c/aside>\n\u003cp>So as she was getting out of her passenger seat to unharness our son, who is nearly three, he was panicked, you could see the panic, and she was screaming and I reached over from the driver’s seat – still with my seatbelt on, to put my hand underneath her arm to try to guide her back into the passenger seat so we could just de-escalate this and talk this through.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It was when I put my hand underneath her arm that she got bruised, in that process. I was instinctively just inserting myself because I saw my wife upset in a way I hadn’t seen her upset, my son was just…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I thought I was being a father in a moment where I had not any premeditated thought. And I thought I was coming to – I was trying to remedy the situation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She then goes into our house. There had been no incident outside, as what news reports had indicated, and when I just tried to decompress for a moment or two in the car, I took my seatbelt off, locked the car up, and proceeded to go in the house.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The door was locked, I knocked on the door. Eliana, with our son, unlocks the door and opens it. And the day, although strained, there was also no sequestering of my wife. She came and went as she pleased. There was no argument inside the house, there was nothing outside the house.\u003c/p>\n\u003caside class=\"pullquote alignleft\">Do I think politics is involved? You cant deny it.\u003c/aside>\n\u003cp>The characterization that she was, in essence, imprisoned in any kind of way is completely false. There were stops at the grocery store or going to a local falafel restaurant for her, for me, alternating care of Theo that day, and on the next day as well. And she decided on the next morning to go see our neighbor.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>What she had informed me of, which was part of the quarrel in the car, on the late morning of December 31st, is that she had been seeing an attorney. and when I thought our conversation was about an extended stay in Venezuela, what I realized, not until the next morning, is that this was potentially a custody issue. Because it just hit me almost in an ambush kind of way is why is my wife seeing an attorney? And I had no idea who that attorney was.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: The irony is that now she is in Venezuela, and she’s extended her stay in Venezuela, although, as you said, she published an article really talking about her love – it was a love letter to you and to your marriage.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: It was a love letter and it’s the best thing I’ve received since January 13th, but you have to understand is her stay in Venezuela is something that I fully support, because to be suspended without pay, to try to break a person so that they can’t provide for their family…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: Well her father is ill, too, isn’t he?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: He has cancer, and I want them to be protected and that also goes to part of why I was so concerned and stressing my concern to her during the argument.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She’s high-profile in her own right in Venezuela, in Caracas, I’d just been elected Sheriff, there had been some very high-profile stories of kidnappings of Americans in Venezuela and of other people. I’ve been in Caracas, in Venezuela a few times and I’ve seen what security conditions are like for people in the middle-class or even above. I felt that we were being lax in not having a conversation about her taking trips to Venezuela and not thinking through the kind of, well, maybe its paranoid, maybe not, but I was doing what I thought was the right thing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: But the bruise, of course, became the center of focus here and it became the center of focus in large part because a former girlfriend came forward and said that you were rough with her and that exacerbated things, and so did your statement for which you apologized in which you also said that it was taken out of context about this being a private family matter.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: I never said that this was a private family matter and there were so many distortions early on that that became the branding. And I have to say, you and I have talked on this program before on air as well as off and I’ve never really been that shy to the media. But the tsunami that had hit me and my family before I was even charged was so overwhelming that frankly I just shut down. It was a wipe-out.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: And you were ashamed, too.\u003c/p>\n\u003caside class=\"pullquote alignleft\">No incident like this has ever happened before.\u003c/aside>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: I was incredibly ashamed. I still am. I’m trying to muster the energy to tell the story but that’s why I’m here, because I owe the people an explanation. I’ve been a public servant seven years, proudly, of an incredible organ of government in the board of supervisors, one of the greatest districts – District 5 – I think it was a great relationship what we had.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And then I was elected Sheriff, much to the surprise of many when I was outspent by one of my chief rival by more than two-to-one, and that we won. And so I owe it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And that’s whats been eating at me, is that while silently and privately and through the mechanics of dealing with the legal and now political administrative process, it’s finally, sort of, mustering that reserve of telling that story that hasn’t been told.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: Let me ask you, though. I want to get back to the ex-girlfriend. I know you have something, perhaps, to say about that that might clarify because there were two girlfriends. One that came forward and said that he’s a good guy and gentle…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: In fact, that was from Evelyn Nieves, where we were in a relationship for seven years…she, who I hadn’t even talked to in a while, offered that herself, which was published in the New York Times Bay Citizen, but it was never, ever, captured in the local press…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: What was captured was the woman who came up from Los Angeles to testify…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: Which I was looking forward to in the trial to really disspell. I thought it was a piling on, there was so much fabrication that had come up in this piling on that that in itself made me that much more motivated and looking forward to the trial because this piling on became so insurmountable that I had no choice but to look forward to a process, to either validate or to demystify what the truth was. And, quite frankly, allegations like that are things I take very seriously.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: Your wife said this is the second time this is happening and I tell Ross I want to work on this marriage, we need help. This is in the video that was released. Both of you feel at this point wanting to move forward and, well, make this marriage work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: My wife has been a champion, both here and abroad, 5,000 miles away in Venezuela in wanting to repair and rebuild our repair our relationship. And I thank God and thank the heavens that every night when I go to bed and pray to be a better man and wake up i the morning to hope to aspire to that change that’s what motivates. Because I believe that through an experience like this, to go through an ordeal like this, to be turned inside out for public dissection in the court of public opinion, I can only hope that I either just completely evaporate as a person or just better myself as a father, as a man, as a husband, as a sheriff…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: Its all about restorative justice in a way, I suppose, is what you’ve been saying implicitly all along, which you’ve been a strong advocate of. But what does your wife mean when she says this is the second time this has happened?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: No incident like this has ever happened before. She is referring to a quarrel that has been familiar and intense – verbally – about the extended trips to Venezuela. There had been three, and it’s a personal matter where I failed, in the last trip that she had taken, to not go to counseling, when we both agreed that counseling was the right way to sort through our misunderstandings and differences…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: She kind of said in the article that you were not all that willing to go to counseling because you were caught up in the electioneering for Sheriff…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: True. I procrastinated. I didn’t put the priorities of my marriage and my family in a way I should have, and that culminated into what I think became an avoidable situation on December 31st.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And to be honest with you, as soon as this happened, before i was even charged, I immediately sought a therapist hoping, and not knowing that I was going to be charged, that we could begin couples counseling because the flag, obviously, was a 2 x 4 across my forehead, and yet, even though we tried unsuccessfully through the district attorney and the courts to go to couples counseling during this ordeal, where we had been rejected, I decided to use that therapist myself to go over some of these issues – issues I refer to in my statement, in my apology that I made after my plea…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: You’ve also been doing anger management, haven’t you?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: Well, its part of that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: Is it helpful?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: Its incredibly humbling to be part of a larger caucus of men of all different ages, many who have committed very severe offenses, and not so severe. This provides a very rare perspective, whether I’m part of law enforcement, or sheriff, or not, it raises a lot of questions about how effective is our system in helping change behavior in a forward-thinking place like San Francisco.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: Your wife says this is a political conspiracy. She said that publicly on a couple of occasions, in fact she called it a coup d’etat or golpe de estado. Do you agree?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: My wife is incredibly passionate. and the tonal quality of politics in Venezuela and Caracas is a bit different. But that’s what I love about her.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>From the moment she discovered on January 4th when the neighbor, without Eliana’s consent, had decided to call the police and my wife panicked trying to reach me while I was at work at City Hall, and she ran down Grove Street, to meet me late in the afternoon outside of city hall to tell me in person what happened… I did not know about any of this, about her level of contact with the neighbor, I had no idea about a video, I had no idea about what became a runaway train and she was so panicked and so scared that she was asking me, telling me, begging me to do something about this because it’s a system she’s not familiar with, and she felt there had been an orchestration.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And over the last four months, the more we have learned in our own investigation and I think just in the subpoenaing of documents and everything else, my wife has arrived at a conclusion that it’s more than just the merits of a legal case.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: Do you concur or agree with that? Do you say you found new things that make you inclined to believe that?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: Do I think politics is involved? You cant deny it. This morphed from, in some respect, what was in the Hall of Justice to City Hall now to an administrative process. But as sheriff and as a member of the Board of Supervisors, and as a former member of law enforcement working with the district attorney for nine years, carrying a weapon, graduate of the San Francisco Police Academy, class president…I’ve always said from second one that I have to believe on the system, which is why I would never interfere with the system, whether i like or dislike what the outcome of the system is, I’ve held to the point that I have to believe in the system.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: Well let me jump in there for a moment because there is supposed to be a hearing today on whether or not the suspension should be overturned, scheduled for Friday. Today is an initial hearing on whether Dennis Herrera, the City Attorney, ought to be involved in this. Are you going ahead with that? Because its my understanding that Dennis Herrera has brought in different counsel for the ethics committee. That would change the whole landscape.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: This is completely unchartered territory. This has never happened before in San Francisco, and I apologize to San Franciscans for really helping cause this unprecedented and very painful kind of event. It is subscripted and unknown. So the Ethic Commission, which constitutes a panel of five political appointees, the Mayor, the Board of Supervisors, the City Attorney, the District Attorney, and the Assessor Recorder — they each have an appointee in the ethics commission — they will hear and make a recommendation to the Board of Supervisors.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It does beg question initially that when the city attorney was assigned to guide both the Ethics Commission and represent the Mayor against me, where is that firewall of ethics and what is just and fair? And I’ll give you another example, the City Attorney has been conducting an investigation, they have the power of subpoena, whereas my attorneys and me do not. So in the question of a criminal case, in the proceedings in the Hall of Justice where there is an investigation by the district attorney, where evidence that is collected is made discoverable, in this particular case, that has not been the case.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: So you’re going ahead against the district attorney…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: Yes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: San Francisco Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi…is in studio talking with us about the incident and talking about, really, the, well, he used the word tsunami. At first it was described by you, Ross, as a runaway train of innuendo and now it’s become nothing less than a tsunami…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: That was weeks ago, by the way. In fact it was one think tank that had calculated the number of stories that reported on me in a seven week, six week period. That was 302 stories just in the local press, compared to, say, another high-profile incident involving one of our former mayors or something else where the number was compared to 48.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So when you deal with that level of fact, and our story wasn’t being presented, that sculpts in the court of public opinion a very different scenario that we had to contend with.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: A couple of things that I mentioned have sculpted the story and made the narrative go a certain way also have to do with the charge of you and your wife apparently trying to convince Ivory Madison, and her husband made the charge — that the evidence should be destroyed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: Yeah, I think that that was a complete fabrication and fiction. I was frankly just blown away that I saw that in an op-ed. And I know Eliana’s attorney as well as my attorney were shocked. And I looked forward to take that head-on. I believe in the process. And I believe that before I was sworn in as Sheriff and interrupted I was informed later in the day on January 4th about the existence of this, I was in such a state of shock that the only thing I could think of was “holy cow, we need some legal representation, we need an attorney.” That was my level of thinking. And my wife was panicked because she felt completely betrayed by the woman next door, who turned out, in my wife’s opinion, that I discovered not until January 1st that this was her attorney…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: Not a friend or neighbor that she was confiding in, she went to her in mind that I’m going to an attorney…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: Yes, and this had been a developing conversation that had to do with, which I did not know about…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: Because they said the opposite of this. They said essentially…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: And I’m not surprised considering the fact of how this all mushroomed without my wife’s consent and in a way that really begs the question of what happened between what happened in conversation with the next door neighbor between January 1st and January 4th. What happened in those four days when there was no call to the authorities, no call to an advocacy organization out of concern for my wife or care for her condition.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The characterization that was wrongly reported that I had whisked my wife away on a trip to Monterey was completely false. We had pre-planned that trip before December 31st. Everybody that was close to me, preparing for the inauguration, knew that we were either going to go to San Diego or go to Monterey. And then I saw in a report that when we took that trip I was trying to sequester my wife. Going to trial, we would have been able to show the reservations that had been made and the preparations but none of this was accurately reported.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: Well, there was an article in The Guardian that I wanted to cite by Myrna Melgar who herself was a victim of domestic abuse, who said your wife was disempowered by your neighbor, by the police, by the media, even by those who oppose domestic abuse in many ways because everybody was offering help on no level except prosecuting you. Do you agree with that assessment?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: I absolutely do, because in the very moment of that panic that my wife exhibited when this all erupted, that I did not know about until some time later in the day on January 4th, it was clear that she had been betrayed by the neighbor and that she was absolutely scared. I will never forget her running down Grove street, where she ran many blocks to come see me to tell me what had happened. And then it just hit me like a thunderbolt because it was hard for me to fathom just what was occurring. I’d never been on the wrong side of the law, I’ve never needed an attorney before, I’d never committed a level that I was being accused of, of this kind of act.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: Let me go back to this interview with Christina Flores where she says there were three incidents of verbal abuse and a fourth of physical – your former girlfriend when you allegedly grabbed her arm during an argument. Do you want to go on record on that?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: Sure, I think it was a fabrication and fiction. Do I think we had an argument of verbal abuse? Yes, I do. I believe that that was well reported about her contention and, as you referenced earlier, a relationship that came to a natural end before I saw Ms. Flores, Christina Marie Flores, was with Evelyn Nieves for seven years, who took it upon herself to say there had never been any kind of unwanted contact by me at all. And nobody local accentuated that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I was looking forward to the trial, looking forward to the emails by Ms. Flores who, in essence, was trying to get across a way of getting even, trying to settle a score, that also had been reported when those emails were released. And I was looking forward to having that day. (\u003cstrong>Update\u003c/strong>: \u003ca href=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/news/2012/04/18/ross-mirkarimi-in-hour-long-interview-live-at-9-a-m/#flores\">\u003cstrong>See Christina Flores’ response here\u003c/strong>\u003c/a>.)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But, we put that case behind us and it was moving forward. Nonetheless, I walk away from any of these experiences and lessons wanting to really self-check myself making sure that nothing like this could ever happen again. So, that’s an important…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: It almost begins to sound, though, from some perspectives as your wife has said, that this begins to sound like some sort of conspiracy. But you have to say – Ivory Madison fabricating, her husband fabricating, Christina Flores fabricating- but these are people without political involvement in this at all.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: Well, I cant speak to that and you can deduce as well as anyone else what they would like. Coming to the core of what we’re talking about is that I made a terrible mistake and I took responsibility for that as it relates to me and my wife. And I did so with the plea that I did, and that plea, by the way, if for a non-violent, low-level resolution of a misdemeanor that did not inhibit my ability to be Sheriff or possess a weapon, and I entered into that with the express purpose that I would retain my position, of course, only to be confronted with another challenge as instigated by the mayor.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: I should also mention that the challenge that’s going forward is based on the fact that the episode occurred before assumed office, so, the idea legally is that it cant be the basis for a suspension, but also, a suspension for a misdemeanor is being argued that it does not constitute moral turpitude and is a denial of due process.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There is also a question of the language of the city charter defining official misconduct and whether that’s constitutional. I just want to get all that out there for listeners.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I also want to go to one of our listeners, here is Michael from Oakland who says “if he did not falsely imprison her, then why did he plea to it? I’m not buying this emotional minivan-driving soccer-dad act. that’s not the character of a top-cop.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: Well, that is exactly the facts of what happened, and that is also the facts of what my wife speaks to, too. This isn’t a story that is just coming from me, that is part of the 15 minute experience that occurred from when our argument – did only occur in our van as we left for lunch and me turning it around. And the plea of 236 False Imprisonment on a non-violent measure is exactly what characterizes how we arrived at that. I also take responsibility for the bruise that I caused. So that is all part of that whole 15-minute ordeal and nightmare.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: Let me read another e-mail from Ron who says the story that Ross tells is quite different than what has been reported in the press. If Ross’ story is true, then the City Attorney, the DA, and the Mayor have been overzealous in their prosecution of Ross. The false imprisonment plea is a joke. What else I find troubling is the horrible legal representation Ross has received. Why not just come forward earlier and explain your side of the story than hide behind legal maneuvers? This seems more honest and I think more people would understand. If Ross and Eliana wish to see each other and work on their marriage, who are we to interfere?”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I’m sure you’ll agree with that last sentiment but what about his point about why not come forward from the beginning?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: I wish I had. I gotta tell you. One of the things that really ate at me was the notion that I said domestic violence was a private family matter. I never said that. And that became a branding that just blew me away.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And as you said in your opening, as a supervisor, and even before being supervisor, I’d been an ardent champion, enthusiastically. I think people who are elected are allies of the domestic violence advocacy community and making sure that domestic violence is extinguished in this city. I took that to heart at my seven years at the budget committee, staying late at many budget committees to fight for add-backs. I never ceased to trumpet the needs of the community, especially as chair of public safety.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So, I wish I had spoke earlier. And as I was trying to describe with you earlier, I’ve never been that insecure or shy with the press, where I grew at a comfort level to speak to the press, this walloped me to the point where I was just down. And that, on top of the advice of my attorney at the time, and I tend to agree that it was a bad decision to not speak to the press, we should have, and I regret that it didn’t happen earlier.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: when you did come forward and make that apology, though, publicly, and spoke about your shame and spoke about the cost that this has had on you personally, you said I’m not the person I thought I was and this is a dark world now and admitted you had anger and arrogance issues…what did you mean by saying ‘I’m not the person I thought I was’?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: Oh, my god. I’m destroyed inside out…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: You thought you were tougher, more elastic, resilient?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: No. I thought I was more tender, more caring, not as gruff or abrasive, not as testosterone-packed. I think that people understand who I am, I’ve never been part of any kind of machine, per se. I’ve always been a guy driven by my tenacity and determination. I’m what people call tenacious and some think that is just maybe overbearing…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: A euphemistic word for arrogance, perhaps? Here is one commenter who says “both Ross and his supporters suggest and continue to suggest that the sole motive for his persecution is political, what Ross believes to be political is just people’s spite towards him”. People love you or hate you, and if they hate you its because of tenacity, arrogance, and maybe those personal qualities more than political.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: For me it’s a survival strategy as it related to me trying to succeed in politics. I failed as a member of the Board of Supervisors in trying to cultivate relationships in a way that I think others had made it a priority with other elected and fellow supervisors. I was there to do a job. And this is a speech that I would give to staffers and interns, talking about how government doesn’t work and that it’s my determination and our opportunity to show government can work better for the people and their cause.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: What would be the political motivation of those who you surmise to be your political enemies? Because, really, Mike Hennessy gave you his full support and said you were allied politically….\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: And he’s right…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: So why would they see you as a political enemy?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: Well, I don’t think the ember stopped smoldering for many who fought to support another candidate after the November election. It was a hard-fought race. We had a strong grassroots effort, under-resourced in many ways, and we had to muster the kind of energy that was people-driven. And so others that expected a different turnout…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: So your political enemies would be those who were defeated?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: Not necessarily. I can’t speak to other people’s motivations or what’s catalyzed this. Some people may just be reacting to what they read in the press, what they think is the truth, how they may feel about me even before this happened on December 31st, and others may have drawn different conclusions. So I can’t really say that there’s a smoking gun right then and there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And that’s why when you asked me the question about the coup d’etat — everything is bubbled-up in such a way that this has been a nightmare for me and my family. But does that deter my ability from being an effective sheriff, from realizing the dream and vision that Sheriff Mike Hennessy put forward for over 30 years. And that is that we are about tpublic safety, but we’re about the power of redemption, and that’s what the criminal justice system should be in California…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: This is a city, though, that is known for that. Known for its liberal views on criminal justice…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: we could do a better job, to be honest with you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: Its also known for cracking down hard on domestic violence.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: As it completely should, which is why I want to continue to be that champion and come with that voice and perspective that I think gives me even greater value in doing so.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: Let me bring in some callers and we’ll begin with Casey, good morning.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>CASEY\u003c/strong>: I’m more interested in why the state is bringing forward the charges without his wife, the injured party, bringing the charges. I think it’s something the police do on a regular basis, in probably 75% of the things they prosecute and I think it’s immoral. And I wonder what the sheriff thinks about that after his case.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: Well, my wife never did want to bring charges. As a matter of fact, I believe it was the day after on January 5th when an inspector, or somebody from the police department had contacted her to see if everything was okay. And she took it upon herself to say everything was fine, I never wanted this to happen. She didn’t call 911. She told the inspector she would if she thought that there was any kind of danger.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>What was reported by the neighbors is diametrically, profoundly different than what had been shared between Eliana and the neighbor and what Eliana then told somebody over the phone from law enforcement, or on behalf of a domestic violence advocacy organization.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: I think we have a neighbor of yours on here. Roy, join us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>ROY\u003c/strong>: I think he should pursue a career as a fiction writer. He sounds like a pathological liar.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: Just based on the severity of that comment, what can I say? And I’m sorry I’m emotional, but when it comes to my family, my son, the way they have been leveraged against me, I am emotional about it. It’s not easy for me to tell this story. I haven’t told it in four months.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When my son who was kept away from me for no reason – when one night when I was staying at Mayor Agnos’ house, he and his wife had been amazing to me allowing me to camp out there for a little bit, my wife called in a complete panic because my son had broken out in a complete rash and had respiratory problems and thought that she was going to have to rush him to the hospital to Kaiser. My immediate instinct was that I was going to help her but I had to be pulled back because of the stay-away.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It turned out to be, based on the testimony of the day-care provider the next day that due to the separation of my son and I, my son was manifesting that separation in allergic reaction. And when we went to family court, despite the interference by the DA to try to block me from seeing my son, where eventually we won and I was able to see him for two hours a day, all that reaction and the allergy and rash disappeared completely. And so, it was so painstaking that I’m still living it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I apologize that if I’m sounding emotional and I’m not the tough guy sheriff you want me to be, I don’t think there is another way to pause\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: You don’t have to apologize for being emotional. Let me get another caller on the line. Scott, you’re on.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>SCOTT\u003c/strong>: I just wanted to thank Mr. Mirkarimi for coming on air and talking about what is going on. You have nothing to apologize about, a real man shows his emotions and is able to do that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I just want to tell you that I’m going through the same thing and it is extremely excruciating to be away from your family. And I do think that you’re being sabotaged by the neighbor and maybe your wife was just emotional when they talked to her. And the neighbor went and called the newspaper before she even called the police. If she had real concern for your wife…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: Let me thank the caller for that. Here is another listener who says that ‘listening to Mr. Mirkarimi has been very triggering to me. I’m in the process of divorcing a man who to hear tell the story of our marriage sounds eerily like your guest this morning. He, too had many incidents in the car, he too paints me as being hysterical and out of control when he retells the story. It’s a common tactic for men who are emotionally and verbally abusive to start arguments in the car. It’s a confined space in which the victim is truly imprisoned. I am struck by the skill with which Mr. Mirkarimi suddenly shifts blame to his wife. He was wrong and all I heard in his telling of the story were justifications for his actions. Sir, placing your hand on your wife’s arm does not cause a bruise, violently trying to restrain somebody does. Mr. Mirkarimi does not need anger management classes, abuse is not an anger problem, abuse is a problem of entitlement, entitlement to control the actions of another. Couples counseling does not help in these situations and can only make the situations worse. Counseling focuses on communication between a couple, abuse is not communication problem, it is an entitlement problem.’\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: I agree. I completely agree with that. And again, I’m not making any justification, I’m telling you the story as it happened.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And i think that the stream where my wife is coming from, it is consistent where shes coming from. And it is an entitlement question that i abused and was wrong for that. but i also want to explain that there was somebody else in the car. It was my son. And I’m not going to dismiss the fact the fact the i was scared and panicked for him and he was agitated as was my wife at that moment in that short period of time. May i remind you that this only lasted 15 minutes. And I made a mistake terrible as it is. i cannot say if couples counseling could help or not, that’s a projection.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: I think that depends on the couple…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: I think it does depend on the couple and that’s what I mean. It is something my wife wanted and something I failed to participate in.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: Can I ask you what’s in your heart right now? I know you’ve made it clear that you love your wife but she set all this in motion by taking this case next…..do you resent her for doing that? It would be naturally human if you did.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: No, I don’t. This is all my responsibility and I take accountability to it. she made a tremendous sacrifice coming from Venezuela to this city and a lifestyle that was unfamiliar to her. I think to expect her to mold into a lifestyle. I don’t expect her to come into a relationship where there hadn’t been too much pre-courting, and so we’ve been married about three years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: How long was the courtship? It was pretty short as I recall.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: It was less than six months, and yet we were absolutely determined to make it work and celebrating the fact that we had our first child at home, we had a home birth. and the meaning of what we had at our house is something that we still cherish a great deal. Being part of a process when you have a home birth like that is something you never forget\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: Let me read a web comment. It says, “this is nothing than a typical family process of learning how to cope with powerful feelings, which is being exploited by powerful people. I’m so sorry to Ross and his family, I cannot imagine having my children taken away from me and I suspect all the Ross haters share this essential emotion and would have been just as emotionally charged as when the argument in the family car occurred.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Here is a caller, Joanne, join us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>JOANNE\u003c/strong>. I liked your politics a lot and I’m not sure how i feel about the case but my feeling is that Ed Lee kind of had given everything that was going on had no choice but to suspend you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: I think it would have been more prudent and professional had he taken me up on my offer to hear my side of the story and the independent account of my wife before he arrived at his decision. So, I understand that the mayor has to do what he has to. I don’t have an ill will about that. but as it relates to process as somebody who is a fellow elected on a city-wide stage, and somebody who has been part of law enforcement and part of the legislative body of the city, what they have done and how they’ve done it, in my opinion is unlawful.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MK\u003c/strong>: Let me read some responses. Tony says, “I’ve heard enough, apology accepted. New York made a mistake drumming out Elliot Spitzer when he was Governor and Wall street really needed policing. while Oakland turned its cops against its people, I remember Ross standing with the occupiers to prevent violence. We need someone like him to be Sheriff.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Another listener, Steve, says, “I voted to Ross because of his promise to continue Sheriff Mike Hennessy’s legacy of rehabilitation over retribution, when the news first broke that he was charged with domestic violence i was heartbroken, and wanted to hear from him, not the media, what happened, but I understood the criminal justice system and that he was being advised not to speak. Thank you for sharing your side and thank you Sheriff for taking responsibility, let’s move on.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That’s your feeling isn’t it?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RM\u003c/strong>: I cannot tell you what its been like in this climate, the press, and how people have arrived to certain places. Maybe I’m projecting but it made me pretty much scared of my own shadow as I was going out in public. But people kept encouraging me to fight.\u003c/p>\u003c/blockquote>\n\u003cp>\u003ca name=\"flores\">\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>Christina Flores responds to the Mirkarimi interview\u003c/strong>: \u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>One person who didn’t appreciate \u003ca href=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/news/2012/04/18/ross-mirkarimi-in-hour-long-interview-live-at-9-a-m/\">Ross Mirkarimi’s hour-long interview on KQED\u003c/a> yesterday was Christina Flores. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As mentioned in the segment, Flores is the ex-girlfriend of Mirkarimi who, a few weeks after Mirkarimi’s arrest on domestic violence charges, filed a police report about a similar-sounding 2008 incident that she said involved Mirkarimi grabbing her arm and leaving a bruise. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Prosecutors wanted Flores to testify against Mirkarimi in the trial; Mirkarimi’s lawyer not so much. After a hearing, \u003ca href=\"http://www.baycitizen.org/ross-mirkarimi-3/story/stunning-testimony-mirkarimis-ex/\">Judge Garrett Wong ruled that Flores’ testimony was admissible\u003c/a>. “The evidence is extremely probative” and “shows a propensity” for violence by Mirkarimi, the Bay Citizen reported Wong as saying.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The case, however, never went to trial, as Mirkarimi pled on a lesser charge of False Imprisonment, for which he was sentenced to three years of probation, ordered to take domestic violence classes, and ordered to perform community service.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Here again is what Mirkarimi said about Flores in the inteview:\u003c/p>\n\u003cblockquote>\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Host Michael Krasny\u003c/strong>: Let me go back to this interview with Christina Flores where she says there were three incidents of verbal abuse and a fourth of physical – your former girlfriend when you allegedly grabbed her arm during an argument. Do you want to go on record on that?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Mirkarimi\u003c/strong>: Sure, I think it was a fabrication and fiction. Do I think we had an argument of verbal abuse? Yes, I do. I believe that that was well reported about her contention and, as you referenced earlier, a relationship that came to a natural end before I saw Ms. Flores, Christina Marie Flores, was with Evelyn Nieves for seven years, who took it upon herself to say there had never been any kind of unwanted contact by me at all. And nobody local accentuated that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I was looking forward to the trial, looking forward to the emails by Ms. Flores who, in essence, was trying to get across a way of getting even, trying to settle a score. That also had been reported when those emails were released. And I was looking forward to having that day.\n\u003c/p>\u003c/blockquote>\n\u003cp>Upon hearing that, Ms. Flores left a comment on this blog objecting to Mirkarimi’s characterization of her. In order to verify that the comment was really posted by her, we contacted her, and she had this to say about Mirkarimi’s comments about her testimony: \u003c/p>\n\u003cblockquote>\u003cp>I was shocked. I really was appalled that he was calling me basically a liar and saying that I fabricated this story…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He sat there and said that I fabricated this, I lied about this, but I was the only one in court under oath in front of the judge, and for two days they went back and forth at me, trying to hear the story, and…after that the judge deemed that not only was my testimony important in the case, but it would show a history of what’s going on. [The judge] made a judgment that it’s important to show a history of abuse of female romantic partners…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So as far as [Mirkarimi] saying on your show he was looking forward to it, that’s not true.\u003c/p>\n\u003c/blockquote>\n\u003cp>Flores says she has also talked to former romantic partners of Mirkarimi who have stories about his temper, but that they don’t want to come forward publicly. She does say, however, that a woman she cited in the comment she left as being a disgruntled ex of Mirkarimi’s is now talking to the press…We’ll let you Google that on your own…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Whether any of this has any legal relevance at this point — the case was ended when Mirkarimi was sentenced — is doubtful. Politically, however, who knows? The Ethics Commission hearing is slated for next week…\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/62585/ross-mirkarimi-in-hour-long-interview-live-at-9-a-m","authors":["80"],"programs":["news_6944"],"categories":["news_6188"],"tags":["news_724","news_38"],"label":"news_6944","isLoading":false,"hasAllInfo":true}},"programsReducer":{"possible":{"id":"possible","title":"Possible","info":"Possible is hosted by entrepreneur Reid Hoffman and writer Aria Finger. Together in Possible, Hoffman and Finger lead enlightening discussions about building a brighter collective future. The show features interviews with visionary guests like Trevor Noah, Sam Altman and Janette Sadik-Khan. Possible paints an optimistic portrait of the world we can create through science, policy, business, art and our shared humanity. It asks: What if everything goes right for once? How can we get there? 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